The Bard Problem

[packmule]

We all know its there. Its the thing we keep locked in the closet and deny its reality, but its going to break out eventually.

Im talking about bards taking entire areas (ex THE WHOLE AVIAK HUT) and whisking them off to god knows where to take their sweet time killing them.

Can we not take static spawns bards? its bad enough they can grab the whole lower half of the zone in a few minutes, leaving there nothing to kill while they aoe them all down over the 25 minutes it takes.

[Hex]

QQ

[Dravingar]

Go to a dungeon, Problem solved.

[Muletide]

^

Outdoor zones exist for soloing classes. That's why dungeons have huge zems.

[Swish]

As has been mentioned before though, at peak times bards shouldn't be kiting half a zone's worth of mobs if there's groups around who are suffering as a result.

Play with a bit of consideration you bard types... is that asking too much?

[packmule]

oh sorry, let me bring my NECROMANCER inside a dungeon to kite things.

[snwbrdr642]

same should go for lower level zones where monks in fungi will grab entire areas and take forever killing them down one by one.

[Brinkman]

same should go for lower level zones where monks in fungi will grab entire areas and take forever killing them down one by one.

Were you the one crying in kurns the other night? lol You do know that mobs respawn right? And that most monks, even with a fungi are not going to pull 3-5 blues on purpose.

[jerus]

What bard is taking 25 mins to kill and isn't dying? My finger wouldn't last that long.

[bizzum]

What bard is taking 25 mins to kill and isn't dying? My finger wouldn't last that long.

I was gonna say, I thought he fat fingered it trying to just type five, but holy christ what fingers those would be! :p

[Lazortag]

The actual kite doesn't take 25 minutes. I could imagine the pull + the kite together taking around that long, but it's usually shorter than that.

Anyways, I really don't see what's wrong with someone exping in the fastest way they can, so long as they follow the rules*. There are plenty of dungeons that are constantly empty that you could exp in, yet you choose to go to OT/South Karana and other outdoor zones that are popular for Bards. The bards aren't going away.

*this isn't to say that I'm okay with Bards who try to kite entire zones, take an obnoxiously long time to gather mobs, and then proceed to train everyone after they wipe.

[Kasilis]

Well there are not that many places suitable for bards to kite. In your levelrange it would be SK and OT. Means try places where bards can't AE kite.
WW giant fort is great xp for necros.. leveled there myself. Even try solo Unrest or whatever.. KFC is quiet overrated..

[astuce999]

Doh, I thought it was going to be a post about all the bugs bards are still facing in kunark that made me put mine on hold.

oh well

[falkun]

There are very few places bards can effectively AE kite. There are a lot more places where you can exp for a given level range. Coincidence? Nope.

[Messianic]

This isn't a problem. If they're first to engage, tough crap.

It sucks when I'm trying to do spirocs in TD and a bard is literally taking all of them - I just have to wait for respawns and grab 4 before he grabs them all, or...I could do that dreaded thing - talk to another player about leaving at least 4 spawns for me, and if not, just trying to be quicker than him...

Although talking to other players in an MMO would be insane, right

[Bubbles]

lol @ not being able to take a necro indoors.

Using a necro to kite outdoor mobs without ZEM is like borrowing dad's Porsche to pick up an order of wings 'to go' from Hooters. You've accomplished your main task, and completely wasted every benefit at your disposal in the process.

[skorge]

as much as i hate seeing bards pull 20 mobs and take 30 mins to kill, all these noob monks in fungi robes are getting ridiculous...fungi robes need to be nerfed ASAP, these robes alone are turning monks into total douchebags

[moklianne]

I agree with the OP. When a bard pulls a ton of mobs from the aviak village, everyone else suffers. It takes the bard forever to kill them, so all of the groups/other soloists are just sitting there waiting for them to die and then for their respawn timer to finish. It sucks. Unless bards get nerfed though, there's not much that can be done...

[y2sky2003]

Using a necro to kite outdoor mobs without ZEM is like borrowing dad's Porsche to pick up an order of wings 'to go' from Hooters. You've accomplished your main task, and completely wasted every benefit at your disposal in the process.

I lol'd.

[Knuckle]

as much as i hate seeing bards pull 20 mobs and take 30 mins to kill, all these noob monks in fungi robes are getting ridiculous...fungi robes need to be nerfed ASAP, these robes alone are turning monks into total douchebags

Lol

[falkun]

Using a necro to kite outdoor mobs without ZEM is like borrowing dad's Porsche to pick up an order of wings 'to go' from Hooters. You've accomplished your main task, and completely wasted every benefit at your disposal in the process.

And this is why I don't feel any remorse in pulling 20+ mobs in a zone. Its the one thing I do well, and the number of places I can do it at I can count on 1 hand. I'm good at outdoor kiting, you are good at dungeoning, let us go our separate ways and be happy.

[Messianic]

lol @ "need a final solution" tag. I know it's terrible humor with regard to what those things reference, but it's still funny with regard to EQ bards.

[Doors]

as much as i hate seeing bards pull 20 mobs and take 30 mins to kill, all these noob monks in fungi robes are getting ridiculous...fungi robes need to be nerfed ASAP, these robes alone are turning monks into total douchebags

You're rolling around on a necro that has a 10% exp penalty with a 160,000 platinum twink weapon in rod of Annihilation and you're complaining about monks who can solo when they get a fungi?

http://lightprincess.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/baby-crying.jpg

[skorge]

You're rolling around on a necro that has a 10% exp penalty with a 160,000 platinum twink weapon in rod of Annihilation and you're complaining about monks who can solo when they get a fungi?

http://lightprincess.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/baby-crying.jpg

when in comparison the fungi robe is arguably the most overpowered item on the server at only what 1k?

how many fungi robes are out there vs RoA's? im betting im the only caster in the 30s with a RoA

[Swish]

a 160,000 platinum twink weapon

:eek:

Seriously, 160k pp items? I lol'd!

[Doors]

when in comparison the fungi robe is arguably the most overpowered item on the server at only what 1k?

how many fungi robes are out there vs RoA's? im betting im the only caster in the 30s with a RoA

umad? This isn't even a pvp server. What the fuck are you complaining about. Sharing solo spots for experience?

Let me be the first to apologize to you, your 160k twink weapon, your 10% experience penalty, and your caster class that can solo even if its naked. Somebody get this dude a box of tissues.

[Swish]

your 160k twink weapon

...and again! :D

[Lazortag]

Doh, I thought it was going to be a post about all the bugs bards are still facing in kunark that made me put mine on hold.

oh well

All I can think of is mez push, song of twilight not pushing/pulling mobs like it should, and charm kiting (with swarms of mobs) not working. Those 3 bugs hardly make the class unplayable, and that's kind of a silly reason to stop playing your Bard.

[Dr4z3r]

All I can think of is mez push, song of twilight not pushing/pulling mobs like it should, and charm kiting (with swarms of mobs) not working. Those 3 bugs hardly make the class unplayable, and that's kind of a silly reason to stop playing your Bard.

Cast bar still disappears intermittently, too! Not that it's hard to watch your character for 3 seconds and hit another button when you see the animation, but it's still a bug! :D

[Goraxx]

We all know its there. Its the thing we keep locked in the closet and deny its reality, but its going to break out eventually.

Im talking about bards taking entire areas (ex THE WHOLE AVIAK HUT) and whisking them off to god knows where to take their sweet time killing them.

Can we not take static spawns bards? its bad enough they can grab the whole lower half of the zone in a few minutes, leaving there nothing to kill while they aoe them all down over the 25 minutes it takes.

Fail troll is fail.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=294103#post294103

[Pescador]

We all know its there. Its the thing we keep locked in the closet and deny its reality, but its going to break out eventually.

Im talking about necros taking entire named spawns (ex ALL OF LOWER GUK) and semi-afk farming them for god knows how long.

Can we not take named spawns necros? its bad enough that a few necros can take every named spawn in lower guk, leaving the spawn locked down while they minimize EQ with audio triggers running over the 10 hours it takes for them to get bored and pocket their 25k worth of loots

[Azazel]

Necros complaining about balance?! OP you should be ashamed.

[nalkin]

Whats funny is that the current state of bards on p99 is actually nerfed in comparison to classic with swarm kiting not working and hit boxes being so messed up.

There is no reason to group in bard zones, so please leave our zones. Its just as annoying for us when we can only find less than 30 mobs to kite on.

Bard zones are the following: SK, OT, BW, and DL (but I don't see many bards in DL so that can be a share zone).

[Stumpes]

I don't mind that if they have the camp. It is no different than if a group has a camp. What I do mind is when Bards come over and steal the mobs from another groups camp and kill them. I think that is unfair to the group that has been there for some time and would then suffer.

[Swish]

Similar with powerlevelling in places like Unrest, the PLers (as with some bards) couldn't give a toss who they're annoying and who loses as a result of their actions.

The likes of Rogean/Hobby/etc could take a stance, but either way they'll piss "someone" off and there will be bad news bear posts on the forums :(

As someone who's levelling, I know which side of the fence I fall on...perhaps the difference is I'll stay on that same side when I get into the 50's.

[Mcbard]

Whats funny is that the current state of bards on p99 is actually nerfed in comparison to classic with swarm kiting not working and hit boxes being so messed up.

Lol ya, my thoughts exactly. Arguably the best leveling tactic bards ever had doesn't even work and people are complaining we need nerfed? :eek:

Pescador, I've tried that route but it doesn't work! People just whine when they don't get everything they want (op is whining about not getting mobs instead of going somewhere else). Eventually, if they whine enough lines are for, er things are changed! Bad positive reinforcement. :(

I guess I don't understand why people complain about stuff like this. I guess I for one don't really care how their gaming experience is negatively impacted so long as what I'm doing is A) classic, B) not against any rules. I wouldn't really complain about necros soloing named I want in a dungeon, I would just go somewhere else.. probably to ae kite.

[jerus]

Similar with powerlevelling in places like Unrest, the PLers (as with some bards) couldn't give a toss who they're annoying and who loses as a result of their actions.

The likes of Rogean/Hobby/etc could take a stance, but either way they'll piss "someone" off and there will be bad news bear posts on the forums :(

As someone who's levelling, I know which side of the fence I fall on...perhaps the difference is I'll stay on that same side when I get into the 50's.

I thought they did take a stance? http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2653

[mwatt]

It's hard to blame a Bard for using the tools he has been given to get experience.

However, just because one CAN do something, doesn't mean one SHOULD. As always, politeness and a certain amount of being reasonable are in order when rubbing shoulders with other players.

[soup]

when in comparison the fungi robe is arguably the most overpowered item on the server at only what 1k?

how many fungi robes are out there vs RoA's? im betting im the only caster in the 30s with a RoA

...what does any of this matter? Why does people having access to affordable twink gear bother you? :confused:

[Zakaton]

Bards are the devil.

[Fourthmeal]

Kiters gonna kite

[Calabee]

Fix mofuggin MISSED NOTES11111111~!~!!!~!!!~1!~ yes. gogo.

[Taryth]

It may be perfectly normal and productive for Bards to kite as they do, but that doesn't mean it's not rude. Just like there are people who will take your camp if you're just outside the room clearing trash while the named room is down.

You can justify it with rules, etc. all you like, but you're still acting like a prick. :)

[Fourthmeal]

Everyone hating on bards. WHY DONT YOU ROLL A BARD?

[SublimeChowder]

Everyone hating on bards. WHY DONT YOU ROLL A BARD?

In the case of the OP,

Fail troll is fail.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=294103#post294103


It's only unfair if you try it and are unable to do it properly.

[Nevron]

Some bards are good at controlling their trains, considerate, and do not cause any problems for other players. Others have gotten my character killed or forced them to zone on more than one occasion. As usual, there are a few who screw things up for everyone else. Rule changes won't affect that.

I also don't care if one class is easier / harder to play than another. Differences are good.

However, it should get progressively harder the more mobs you add, otherwise the rules are just broken (classic or not). The current limit appears to be zone mob population or lag.

Some Ideas:

1. The 7th mob after the same target should go just a little faster, and the 8th faster still...

2. The kite starts to cause drag on the kiter as it gets bigger.

3. One of the mobs actually gets smart and waits for the bard to come back around.

[Azazel]

Heres an idea, start grouping in dungeons where bards cant kite.

[Extunarian]

3. One of the mobs actually gets smart and waits for the bard to come back around.

Don't let Haynar see this.

[Hogwash]

Some bards are good at controlling their trains, considerate, and do not cause any problems for other players. Others have gotten my character killed or forced them to zone on more than one occasion. As usual, there are a few who screw things up for everyone else. Rule changes won't affect that.

I also don't care if one class is easier / harder to play than another. Differences are good.

However, it should get progressively harder the more mobs you add, otherwise the rules are just broken (classic or not). The current limit appears to be zone mob population or lag.

Some Ideas:

1. The 7th mob after the same target should go just a little faster, and the 8th faster still...

2. The kite starts to cause drag on the kiter as it gets bigger.

3. One of the mobs actually gets smart and waits for the bard to come back around.
or not!

[Mcbard]

Some bards are good at controlling their trains, considerate, and do not cause any problems for other players. Others have gotten my character killed or forced them to zone on more than one occasion. As usual, there are a few who screw things up for everyone else. Rule changes won't affect that.

I also don't care if one class is easier / harder to play than another. Differences are good.

However, it should get progressively harder the more mobs you add, otherwise the rules are just broken (classic or not). The current limit appears to be zone mob population or lag.

Some Ideas:

1. The 7th mob after the same target should go just a little faster, and the 8th faster still...

2. The kite starts to cause drag on the kiter as it gets bigger.

3. One of the mobs actually gets smart and waits for the bard to come back around.

Proposing non-classic solutions to a classic problem is asinine*. Also, it gets a lot harder the more mobs you get, because at a certain point if you slip up even once during your 5+ minute kite, with enough mobs, you're just going to instantly die. You make ae kiting sound easy, and it's really not, especially to be any good at it. I've done it for probably 24 hours of play time and still die quite a bit doing it. It's difficult, it's risky, and it gets harder the more mobs you do it with. I would wager that anyone who says otherwise has never even tried it here.

*for this server

[mimixownzall]

My finger wouldn't last that long.

Thats what your boyfriend said.. NOOCH

[jerus]

Proposing non-classic solutions to a classic problem is asinine*. Also, it gets a lot harder the more mobs you get, because at a certain point if you slip up even once during your 5+ minute kite, with enough mobs, you're just going to instantly die. You make ae kiting sound easy, and it's really not, especially to be any good at it. I've done it for probably 24 hours of play time and still die quite a bit doing it. It's difficult, it's risky, and it gets harder the more mobs you do it with. I would wager that anyone who says otherwise has never even tried it here.

*for this server

That's exactly it. I can do like 5-7 mobs where I am now and survive a round, add that 8/9 mob and i don't know so it makes it much more stressful and you are more careful meaning a longer kite, and then still if you screw up at 5% on the mobs and die, all that time was wasted and have fun finding a rez hehe.

[shdwdrake8]

Heres an idea, start grouping in dungeons where bards cant kite.

[packmule]

In the case of the OP,




It's only unfair if you try it and are unable to do it properly.

notice why I stopped playing a bard anyway because of this....

[Nevron]

Proposing non-classic solutions to a classic problem

The classic solution was to nerf PBAE so it wouldn't work if the mob was moving.

[SublimeChowder]

The classic solution was to nerf PBAE so it wouldn't work if the mob was moving.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 'classic' here generally refers to Launch-Velious era EQ, right? Bards were able to AoE kite up until at least GoD. There was no classic solution to Bard AoE kiting. It's part of classic Everquest.

[Nevron]

Yes, the PBAE nerf was 2004 (after this server's time) but it's sort of classic (closer to then than now). I wasn't offering it up as a "good idea", just as a counterpoint.

It seems from the postings that a lot of bards play here specifically for AoE kiting. Nerfing it would presumably mean a lot of them would quit. I don't really want to spoil it for them if that's what floats their boat.

On the other hand, maybe there are more bards who don't like the "bad rep" they get because of the extreme kiters, and would actually like it better if that wasn't the only thing bards were known for.