Absolute worst race/class/deity combo

[ketzerei84]

Besides halfling anything, as a former Triton raider I know full well that halflings are the worst race in EQ :p

I was thinking Erudite Pally worshipping Quellious might be the worst combo. But let's see what the community has to say ^^

[loramin]

halflings are the worst race in EQ :p

What are you smoking? Halfling (hide/sneak/XP bonus) is one of the three master races of Norrath, along with Iksar (regen/ac bonus) and Ogre (frontal stun immunity).

[Samoht]

Besides halfling anything, as a former Triton raider I know full well that halflings are the worst race in EQ :p

Halfling is one of my top races. They have above average stats for all of the needed stats for their available classes and tons of potential utility with sneak. Never underestimate a cleric or druid or even a warrior with sneak.

My worst would be Dark Elf Warrior worshiping anything besides Rallos Zek. Terrible starting DEX and STA, even worse STR, and then if you pick Inny, your racial armor will be crap.

INT based warriors suck.

[Fammaden]

I'd say DE rogue is even worse than DE warrior, and there's no reason to choose it since rogues can easily obtain a DE mask.

[DMN]

Dark elf rogues would also be in the running. Perhaps worse than in DE warriors because you don't even get your racial hide advantage since it already comes with the class kit and mask of deceiver being useless. You will also be taking a faction hit for being a rogue, which warriors don't suffer, though that's obviously a minor for rogues.

That said what exactly is meant by "worst". Solo, grouping, raiding, or perhaps some kind of averaging of the three? At 60, from1 to60, twinkled or untwinked?

[Gustoo]

Worst means worst dude. Straight up worst.

I’m ok with every combo though for me a half elf Druid is probably the worst class race combo in the game.

[starkind]

A blind eru pal or human war/rog. Yikes.

Blindness was rougher than any stat penalty I imposed on myself even.

[Wrekt]

anything that can be ranger or paladin

[ketzerei84]

What are you smoking? Halfling (hide/sneak/XP bonus) is one of the three master races of Norrath, along with Iksar (regen/ac bonus) and Ogre (frontal stun immunity).
It’s an old joke from a top end raid guild on Povar which refused all halfling applicants as a matter of course. They even had a write-up explaining how halfling experience bonuses made players bad lol.

As to what I mean by worst...
some unholy combination of:
1) this sucks to solo
2) the faction work to get anything done with this is mental-health challengingly terrible
3) the combo is so suboptimal that you’re not even wanted in groups or raids if literally anything else is available

On a scale of course.

[Jimjam]

Evil half elf warriors (bertie or inny) they are widely hated, bad stats, little utility beyond clickies and potions, don’t have their own cultural to make, the cultural they can use isn’t great.

No combo is really all that bad really though.

[Ghost of Starman]

Evil half elf warriors (bertie or inny) they are widely hated, bad stats, little utility beyond clickies and potions, don’t have their own cultural to make, the cultural they can use isn’t great.

No combo is really all that bad really though.

It's actually quite a good combo, you aren't really liked anywhere but you aren't really KOS either, if you go inny you get some really beautiful looking purple cultural too, it's like human innoruuk cleric without the extra clickies.

[Bakuryu13]

My main is an erollisi marr worshipping human cleric. It started as a joke but I fell in love with the eyepatch

[Ghost of Starman]

I think it's no contest that dark elf rogues are the worst race class combination in game, for all other suboptimal combinations you at least have fashion and rarity justifications, but guise is by far the easiest mask to get so you're essentially gimping your stats for no reason at all and have to worry about faction in good areas before you got a good race mask which are a lot harder to come by.

[Crede]

Half elf druids are definitely the worst, perhaps human necros coming in 2nd behind that but there’s something badass about a human necro, not to mention if you roll Bert.

[Allishia]

Dark elf war is best combo. Shouldn't even be mentioned on this thread! /nod

But ya dark elf rog is my vote to, my rog is a woodelf just cause de mask you can get at lvl 1 pretty easy...

[starkind]

I always wanted to duo a inny de war and de rogue. With like deliberately horrible stats. So max int or cha on both. Would be lol.

Untwinked.

I guess going all dex would be acceptable.

[Gozuk]

Human or Half Elf Druid

Iksar Necro

Barbarian Rogue

Those are all pretty bad.

[Gozuk]

Human Mage is also VERY bad

[Danth]

Dark elf rogue has to be up there because it's rendered largely superfluous by the easily-obtained illusion item, plus dark elf rogues have poor starting statistics on a class that's already generally on the weak side when not hanging around a lot of other people. I can't agree with something like half-elf druid, even though it's clearly the worst race for that particular class, because the druid class is strong enough on its own that it'll still outperform a lot of other choices.

Danth

[Fammaden]

So its DE rogue way out in first place, followed by DE warrior, the tough question is what's third worst? Possibly evil gnome cleric?

[Snortles Chortles]

any new character created on blue after 2011
(LOL)

[Kokkusho]

Human or Half Elf Druid

Iksar Necro

Barbarian Rogue

Those are all pretty bad.

Iksar Necro is the goat

[Evia]

Dark Elf Warrior
Half Elf Druid

[ketzerei84]

I really though eru pal of quellious would make the list lol. Has to work deep water faction for epic. Worst stats for paladin from available races.

[Rader]

What you say is "worst" I say is BEST. Prove you can succeed without depending on slightly higher starting stats or better faction. Gear and quests can fix all, if you don't totally suck. Min/maxers are the worst, I would rather group with a skilled person who can overcome a bit of a challenge, versus someone so lame that they will die repeatedly unless they are playing a "superior" race/class/pathos combo

[Samoht]

Min/maxers are the worst, I would rather group with a skilled person who can overcome a bit of a challenge, versus someone so lame that they will die repeatedly unless they are playing a "superior" race/class/pathos combo

Fortunately, picking the right class/race combo is part of showing that you're a competent player at this point. There's more overlap than not.

[ketzerei84]

What you say is "worst" I say is BEST. Prove you can succeed without depending on slightly higher starting stats or better faction. Gear and quests can fix all, if you don't totally suck. Min/maxers are the worst, I would rather group with a skilled person who can overcome a bit of a challenge, versus someone so lame that they will die repeatedly unless they are playing a "superior" race/class/pathos combo

Actually the purpose to this thread is to get ideas for picking a challenging self-found start. On blue where I have nothing invested yet beyond a level2 sk with... 24 bone chips in his inventory.

[mattydef]

I’d take a badass dark elf warrior over a lame iksar necro any day of the week.

[myrddraal]

Any race with shitty vision with any class. I need my elven eyes.

[starkind]

What you say is "worst" I say is BEST. Prove you can succeed without depending on slightly higher starting stats or better faction. Gear and quests can fix all, if you don't totally suck. Min/maxers are the worst, I would rather group with a skilled person who can overcome a bit of a challenge, versus someone so lame that they will die repeatedly unless they are playing a "superior" race/class/pathos combo

Yeah. There's a ton of terrible ogre wars.

Every DE war is elite.

[Jimjam]

What you say is "worst" I say is BEST. Prove you can succeed without depending on slightly higher starting stats or better faction. Gear and quests can fix all, if you don't totally suck. Min/maxers are the worst, I would rather group with a skilled person who can overcome a bit of a challenge, versus someone so lame that they will die repeatedly unless they are playing a "superior" race/class/pathos combo

I have different thinking but arrive at a similar place. Improving your character is fun. Starting with the worst character, you have most room for improvement, ergo most fun.

[starkind]

Ogres will always have terrible AGI, and even worse charisma, ergo, the worst race. All the time, for every class/race/combo

[myrddraal]

Yeah. There's a ton of terrible ogre wars.

Every DE war is elite.

Most of the warriors I see die are ogres. How often do I see Allishya die? Rarely!

[Tunabros]

everything that isnt human

[Master Roshi]

half elf druid karana

[ketzerei84]

Many appreciated ideas. I think I may utilize a mix of them and do... half-elf rogue... with all points into cha and an evil deity just to make my life harder :D

[Fammaden]

Most of the warriors I see die are ogres. How often do I see Allishya die? Rarely!

Well you generally need to tank harder stuff in order to risk death.

[Jimjam]

Many appreciated ideas. I think I may utilize a mix of them and do... half-elf rogue... with all points into cha and an evil deity just to make my life harder :D

Cha is the min max for rogue. It lets you talk your way out of trouble and fence stolen goods for the best price.

[Cecily]

Anyone choosing DE rogue because the mask is wrong. Anyone choosing DE rogue because base stats is misguided. You don't need to click a mask because you're already beautiful. Wood elf rogues, another bad choice, were the majority of high end rogues on Blue for years because they're pretty and they could survive anything as it was. Stats.. do.. not... matter for rogues. That's why God made shamans. And if you can survive VP that long with a "bad" choice rogue, it follows you can get the best in slot 15svall ROBE from Phara'dar on your terrible dark rogue which literally everyone is jealous of, particularly other rogue races that can't wear it.

[starkind]

I rolled Ariaelle as a male DE.

For the ez access to the best city. Banded looks good.

Chain bikinis are sexist. Not sexy. I couldn't do it.

Access to Dwarven cultural.

I would've rolled female if I coulda got the males chain robe look and wasn't eternally cursed with assless chaps.

Barbs are gross.

I already have half a dozen half elves & 2 more planned.

I hate wood elfs and their dumb city.

Also gnomes are, like, really weird.

Halflings are fat and hairy.

Dwarves are cool but too well liked and too short for me.

Humans are 109% blind. It's so horrible. And human female chain isn't even sexist it's just plain terrifying.

At least I'm not KoS to trolls and Ogres.

[remen]

Mages that aren't a gnome. Being a gnome = infinite shrink pot clicks

Edit: The worst non gnome is probably human because lowest starting int, and blind. Or dark elf for being KoS if you care about that kind of thing.

[Naethyn]

Humans get the most out of items.

[ScottBerta]

DE rogue, warrior. Erudite Paladin seem top 3 to me.

[ketzerei84]

I'm unsure why a DE rogue would be worse than a half elf. sure half elf has slightly better stats, but also blind which I think more than offsets it :P

[jabkul1]

Such a charged question...

I have so many opinions I just don't want to get any drawvers (sp?) annoyed.

[Zuranthium]

High Elf Paladin. Lowest starting strength, stamina, AND dexterity for a melee class that wears heavy shit and is supposed to tank, and generally one of the weakest classes in the game anyway.

Erudite Shadowknight when the game launched - worst starting area in the game, night blind, KOS, exp penalty, worst melee stats for the class.

[Gustoo]

High elf Paladin not the worst because despite everything you said it is still a min/max combo for the paladin with either all points to charisma or all points to wisdom.

[Gustoo]

I'm unsure why a DE rogue would be worse than a half elf. sure half elf has slightly better stats, but also blind which I think more than offsets it :P

half elf not blind.

[Zuranthium]

High elf Paladin not the worst because despite everything you said it is still a min/max combo for the paladin with either all points to charisma or all points to wisdom.

With the way the game was actually played back then, that definitely wasn't a min/max. Starting with the best strength and stamina was king. Although when factoring being night-blind, Erudite was arguably the worst.

[Twochain]

Anyone choosing DE rogue because the mask is wrong. Anyone choosing DE rogue because base stats is misguided. You don't need to click a mask because you're already beautiful. Wood elf rogues, another bad choice, were the majority of high end rogues on Blue for years because they're pretty and they could survive anything as it was. Stats.. do.. not... matter for rogues. That's why God made shamans. And if you can survive VP that long with a "bad" choice rogue, it follows you can get the best in slot 15svall ROBE from Phara'dar on your terrible dark rogue which literally everyone is jealous of, particularly other rogue races that can't wear it.

There's a little bit of truth to this. I sometimes wish my rogue was DE/Human/Gnome so that I could wear a sweet, sweet robe. Same with my druid. Human druid with PD robe is just right.

[Atmas]

High Elf Paladin. Lowest starting strength, stamina, AND dexterity for a melee class that wears heavy shit and is supposed to tank, and generally one of the weakest classes in the game anyway.

Erudite Shadowknight when the game launched - worst starting area in the game, night blind, KOS, exp penalty, worst melee stats for the class.

Strength? Really? Strength is not your main objective as a Paladin. Plus it comes really easily anyway in Velious.

My High Elf Paladin (who has base 65 strength) in tanking gear has stamina maxed, unbuffed, and strength is a few points off maxed. Yaulp 4 which you can have 100% uptime with puts me 30 points over cap, with Avatar 130 points over cap. Don't gear a Paladin for strength.

Also, I can solo black reavers, cliff golems, several chardok, PoM, and seb camps. The class isn't weak if you have an understanding of it. It only sounds weak when people try to do 1 dimensional comparisons. A paladin is going to take more damage than a warrior using defensive. They will also do less damage than many classes. However, in pretty much all situations where max hit isn't an issue, like grouping, clearing, and mid tier raiding a knight is going to be more efficient to heal because the mob is going to die quicker and dps will need less heals. In addition to the all the utility tools Paladins have you are never going to have another tank save a party member with a heal.

[Baler]

Also, I can solo ...cliff golems...

How do you Solo cliff golems with only a paladin?

Thought only shm, ench and necro could do this.

[Crede]

How do you Solo cliff golems with only a paladin?

Thought only shm, ench and necro could do this.

Willsapper, hot/loh, and soulfire clicks if needed.

Seen a less geared sk almost do it as well, it’s hard but not impossible.

[Jibartik]

zIb859Cg5ZM

[Baler]

Willsapper, hot/loh, and soulfire clicks if needed.

Seen a less geared sk almost do it as well, it’s hard but not impossible.

Thanks for the response!
I've killed hundreds of cliff golems on my blue shm so it's a real topic of interest for me. (cliff golem is how I got my torpor)
even wrote a guide on the wiki for shm to solo it with torpor and duo it without torpor

[Gustoo]

With the way the game was actually played back then, that definitely wasn't a min/max. Starting with the best strength and stamina was king. Although when factoring being night-blind, Erudite was arguably the worst.

Yes in Vanilla era the high elf is a bad choice

Kunark + they're the best choice if you're going for min/max

[Atmas]

I actually don't even have a willsapper. Hoping to get one in the future.

I roll HoTs on myself the whole fight. Self buffed I have about 5500 hpts, 1600+ AC and 3k mana. Having Ring 10 + the Regal Band of Bathezid gives me a 35 point DS. Pre-proc Avatar, use Eyepatch of Plunder for self haste. Using self only buffs including my clickies it's a very tough fight. I have done it without soulfire or any other healing items.

If I had buffs from other classes like VoG etc... it becomes much easier.

Btw, I'll buy willsapper loot rights if someone is selling them.

[JustinWK]

Aesthetically? Iksar everything.

[Tnair]

Barbs actually make really good rogues with high str + throwing boulder access.

I will continue to mock all fake dark elves by asking them things in Teir'Dal

[Tnair]

Half elf karana paladin is pretty bad with ugly hats and no tunare gear. Maybe ogre shadow knight, fsi and high str/stam but nearly nonexistent int and you have to buy potions or beg buffs to travel any goblin/halfling zone (solusek good lord)

[Baler]

IS it possible to select a race/class combo that is so bad it will make everything you do twice as difficult?

[Tnair]

All this said, nothing brings character to your character like existing with a permanent handicap ... I loved my erudite prexus paladin and having a use for light sources made the game more fun rather than less

[Tnair]

IS it possible to select a race/class combo that is so bad it will make everything you do twice as difficult?

GM

[eqravenprince]

Any Warrior. If I had to pick a race it'd be Human due to the night blindness.

[Naethyn]

Human warriors get the most out of gear than any other race/class.

[Sonderbeast]

Any Warrior. If I had to pick a race it'd be Human due to the night blindness.

I agree with the former assertion. Playing warrior on its own is difficult as you have 0 escape mechanisms and are entirely reliant upon groups and healing until very late in the game (50+).

As a warrior I've died alot, on purpose, because that's just what was intended for the class. I like to compare the playstyle to balancing on the edge of a knife because you are entirely reliant upon RNG for aggro and then your healer's mana bar. By far the hardest class to play.

Now as for which race? I would say it depends on a lot of factors. Iksar early game are the most difficult. Stats are fairly weak, shit options for gear, and EVERYTHING hates you. And as I mentioned earlier, you are entirely reliant on others during most encounters, so if said half-elf ranger doesn't like your scales you're tucking tail and heading to the nearest zoneline granted you are able to resist his snare.

Late game Kunark Iksar also are pretty shit, still no gear, nothing special to speak of aside from being the only tail-based playable character. Velious brings Iksar on par with Ogres in raid situations and are the best group based tank in the game due to their higher base AC and innate Fungi tunic regeneration.

TLDR; If we're talking end game, I would definitely say the worst race/class combo is most definitely Human ranger of Mithaniel Marr.

[Gustoo]

Rangers can’t be Mith Marr dang dude are you asking to get lit up ? :p

[Sonderbeast]

Rangers can’t be Mith Marr dang dude are you asking to get lit up ? :p

yes

[RecondoJoe]

Possibly evil gnome cleric?

I consider evil gnome cleric to be borderline overpowered. I had a "good" Gnome Cleric on Green, and later leveled an "Evil" Gnome Cleric on Blue... the Evil Gnome Cleric is almost not KOS anywhere, it's kind of OP

I have an "evil" Erudite Cleric on TLP and I wish I had been a Gnome. For a class that has no invis, being able to see through walls makes a big difference. Especially on TLP, where mob root is a lot more fatal. So many times our puller died because he got rooted and I have no idea where he is since I can't see through walls.

[Xulia]

Iksar Shadowknights are absolutely awful. I can't think of a single good reason to play one.