Had enough of the dot nerf already

[packmule]

Its been a few hours, I want my dot damage back.

[Tiggles]

no

[Volsic]

www.everquest.com

Pussy.

[Uthgaard]

Root the mob. Voila, you have it back.

[Sethius]

Invent a time machine, go back in time 10 years or so, assassinate the person at Verant or Sony that decided to implement this in classic EQ, voila, you have your dot damage back!

[packmule]

sec lemme just ding myself 7 levels for root, while also using the other most resisted spell in the game- fear.

and my pet? is he supposed to stand there and get beat to death while the mob is rooted?

[goodthink]

get over it, it happened in live, and was part of classic. this server is emulating classic.

[Sethius]

sec lemme just ding myself 7 levels for root, while also using the other most resisted spell in the game- fear.

and my pet? is he supposed to stand there and get beat to death while the mob is rooted?

Invent a time machine, go back 10 years or so, ask one of the players back then who somehow figured out to survive despite the 34% less damage on dots when mobs are moving. Voila, you don't need it back!

[Swish]

Root the mob. Voila, you have it back.

^^

...or roll a class that never had the benefit of dots. Either way, if its that much of an impact, change classes.

[Cfullard]

get over it, it happened in live, and was part of classic. this server is emulating classic. Get your facts straight sir. There was never a dot nerf in live in the classic game. Having actually played(unlike some of the people bouncing on the - this was in live - bandwagon) during live there was never a nerf to dots until late Luclin and that was only to certain spells. If THIS were the case, why would people be snare kiting things as a druid? I played a necromancer on live and played it almost exclusively off of dot kiting, there was no nerf, and I have no idea where this came from.

[Cfullard]

Root the mob. Voila, you have it back.
So what's the point of a necromancer having a pet if you have to resummon the pet after every pull because the dotted mob beats the hell out of it every single pull and kills it?

[Sethius]

Get your facts straight sir. There was never a dot nerf in live in the classic game. Having actually played(unlike some of the people bouncing on the - this was in live - bandwagon) during live there was never a nerf to dots until late Luclin and that was only to certain spells. If THIS were the case, why would people be snare kiting things as a druid? I played a necromancer on live and played it almost exclusively off of dot kiting, there was no nerf, and I have no idea where this came from.

I did play live, as a druid, until lvl 52 on the druid. Quit shortly after Luclin came out, spent most of my time in kunark and then velious. This is exactly how dots worked during that time, and I was very well aware of it. If the mob was not feared, specifically, the mob took only 66% damage from dots. Druids that kited cried about it (including myself). I eventually started quad kiting, which doesn't use dots, but AoE DD's instead. I was much happier.

This never affected Necros much because it doesn't affect fear kiting. You should do some research and get your facts straight before jumping on the hate of those who jump on the it was this way in live bandwagon! (lol does that make sense)

[Sethius]

So what's the point of a necromancer having a pet if you have to resummon the pet after every pull because the dotted mob beats the hell out of it every single pull and kills it?

Fear kite, dots are not affected during fear.

[Uthgaard]

Get your facts straight sir. There was never a dot nerf in live in the classic game. Having actually played(unlike some of the people bouncing on the - this was in live - bandwagon) during live there was never a nerf to dots until late Luclin and that was only to certain spells. If THIS were the case, why would people be snare kiting things as a druid? I played a necromancer on live and played it almost exclusively off of dot kiting, there was no nerf, and I have no idea where this came from.




SEPTEMBER 13, 1999
DoT Changes:
If the monster is in melee with you, there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
If the monster is running away from you (fear, wounded, etc.), there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
If the monster is moving when the damage from the DoT is applied (happens every few seconds), it will take 66% of the damage that it would have taken.
DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the monster moves for 18 seconds during a fight, it will take as much damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it would have before the patch. (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19990913.html)

This is the nerf that never happened. Nevermind that this, and all of the other relevant patch notes have already been posted in the other threads on the topic, but those never existed either.

[Sethius]

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19990913.html

This is the nerf that never happened. Nevermind that this, and all of the other relevant patch notes have already been posted in the other threads on the topic, but those never existed either.

I'm glad you re-posted this because it confirms my memory was accurate when I said this is how it worked on live.

[johnny ringo]

Get your facts straight sir. There was never a dot nerf in live in the classic game. Having actually played(unlike some of the people bouncing on the - this was in live - bandwagon) during live there was never a nerf to dots until late Luclin and that was only to certain spells. If THIS were the case, why would people be snare kiting things as a druid? I played a necromancer on live and played it almost exclusively off of dot kiting, there was no nerf, and I have no idea where this came from.

lol u sad

[Kassel]

Get your facts straight sir. There was never a dot nerf in live in the classic game. Having actually played(unlike some of the people bouncing on the - this was in live - bandwagon) during live there was never a nerf to dots until late Luclin and that was only to certain spells. If THIS were the case, why would people be snare kiting things as a druid? I played a necromancer on live and played it almost exclusively off of dot kiting, there was no nerf, and I have no idea where this came from.

Just becouse you do not recall the nerf does not mean it did not happen. Proof has been posted in many threads. If fact the nerf is very late as should have been 6 month before kunark. It will be mitigated later as the nerf dots will have more ticks.

[Zuranthium]

The only problem seems to be that the formula for the reduction may have been implemented wrong. It seems to always round down in all cases.

For example, I tested out a DoT that does 12 damage a tick and it went down to 7 damage a tick against a moving mob. 66% of 12 damage is 7.92, so that should round up to 8, but instead it completely rounds down.

Or perhaps that was intended? I don't care either way, it's a deserved fix. DoT kiting = NO.

[johnny ringo]

also rofl at making a poll like this is some sort of democracy lol

[Kraftwerk]

DoT kiting = NO.



I'm going to continue DoT kiting with my bard alt, this is just like the dual wield change a while back. Only a minor annoyance and extending the time it takes to do something, but not eliminating it alltogether.

[Zuranthium]

Time is money. If you feel what you're doing is profitable then by all means go for it. Of course for Bards the nerf isn't as bad as it is for Druids because when you single-target DoT kite as a Bard you're actually twisting in Brusco's Boastful Bellow and that doesn't get its damage reduced.

A necromancer told me he was going to just keep kiting with Darkness and Lifetap-over-time (and pet of course) and not use Fear. Pretty retarded IMO, the mana spent on Fear to get the full DoT damage is definitely worth it, but hey that's what he likes I guess.

[Zakaton]

For my Necro it's not so bad. I throw on an extra dot and kite as normal. It means more down time to meditate, but it's nothing huge for me. I'm much more put out by snare and root suddenly not stacking. I remembered the dot nerf, but had forgotten all about the root/snare change.

[moklianne]

I like polls that mean absolutely dick.

We need more favorite animal or favorite food polls while you're at it.

[Mebryn]

if I remember correctly, when this was implemented way back in live, was it not loooong before that patch that actually told you (per tick) when, and how much damage your dots did? I could be remembering wrong.

Also though, aggro kiting would be affected in this for necro's, but to be fair by the time I was high enough to really need to aggro kite as a tactic, PoP was already out.

[Average]

Its been a few hours, I want my dot damage back.

Wahhhhh i don't like the changes that were made on a FREE server that i play on who's devs do the work for FREE with out any type of compensation other then little bitches like you breathing down their necks and crying salty tears of anguish.

[Messianic]

Get your facts straight sir. There was never a dot nerf in live in the classic game. Having actually played(unlike some of the people bouncing on the - this was in live - bandwagon) during live there was never a nerf to dots until late Luclin and that was only to certain spells. If THIS were the case, why would people be snare kiting things as a druid? I played a necromancer on live and played it almost exclusively off of dot kiting, there was no nerf, and I have no idea where this came from.

Sometimes it's better to remain quiet and be thought ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[Malachor]

I'm much more put out by snare and root suddenly not stacking. I remembered the dot nerf, but had forgotten all about the root/snare change.

The root/snare change actually sets things back to the way they were at launch. They were not made separate effect lines until about a month after the release of Velious.

[Cfullard]

Sometimes it's better to remain quiet and be thought ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Probably be good advice you should take then I would think, don't you? The nerf this is refering to? It came at the very end of Kunark and even then it was said by Verant that it was done incorrectly.

Sometimes it's better to remain quiet and be thought ignorant then to open your mouth (type witty phrases on a forum) and remove all doubt.

[Ostros]

Ohgod edit: Nevermind, I guess it was removed in Luclin. I hate doing research on things sometimes :V. Well this is crappy :(.

Information edit: http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020724.html

[Zakaton]

The root/snare change actually sets things back to the way they were at launch. They were not made separate effect lines until about a month after the release of Velious.

Hmm, I could have sworn I could root & snare with my Kunark era necro, but I'm likely misremembering. I'm doing good to remember where I parked my car, let alone what happened in EQ all those years ago.

[Ostros]

Hmm, I could have sworn I could root & snare with my Kunark era necro, but I'm likely misremembering. I'm doing good to remember where I parked my car, let alone what happened in EQ all those years ago.

Not sure if sarcastic. Will respond as though this were serious.

Necro snare was magic-based and (for some reason) wasn't affected by that change. Root, however, was a multi-class spell, and was affected across the board.

[Zakaton]

Not sure if sarcastic. Will respond as though this were serious.

Necro snare was magic-based and (for some reason) wasn't affected by that change. Root, however, was a multi-class spell, and was affected across the board.

No, I wasn't being sarcastic at all. What did I say that made you think I was being sarcastic?

[Ostros]

No, I wasn't being sarcastic at all. What did I say that made you think I was being sarcastic?

...still not sure if being sarcastic. =P

And because you said you didn't remember if necro had snare or not. It seemed to me, at least, a difficult thing to forget.

[Kassel]

...still not sure if being sarcastic. =P

And because you said you didn't remember if necro had snare or not. It seemed to me, at least, a difficult thing to forget.



Read what he said again...

[enatomi]

^^

...or roll a class that never had the benefit of dots. Either way, if its that much of an impact, change classes.

lol what a cock-headed thing to say. Everyone here invests a lot of time in their class, so it's not too shocking to get upset when a nerf like this takes effect.

Regardless, it happened, and there really doesn't need to be a discussion about this since it happened in live. Though that doesn't change the fact that the change was retarded.

[goodthink]

I still remember when this nerf hit. It was a nerf to druids and shaman, mainly shamans, who at the time were sow kiting.

Regardless of how you feel about it, it was a part of classic, and took place during kunark. I don't get how or why people would be upset now, given you have 10 years of hindsight to look back on.

Its not like you have to spend YOUR time coming up with ways to work around it, the workarounds are widely known.

[Skope]

If you look at the other classes and the efficiency of DoTs and the spells the DoT classes have at their disposal in comparison to other classes, this is actually a pretty smart nerf. It wasn't until AA's that things became a bit more balanced out with regards to nukes v DoTs. I guess what i'm trying to say is

http://www.cheapbabyclothesinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/baby-cries.jpg

[Friday]

Wizards revenge

[sigundo]

Actually, there WAS a dot nerf in classic EQ. (it was more a pro-druid thing). They reduced damage on mobs that were running at speed. So necromancers and druids (and wizards) (and bards) saw no change in damage, as long as snare/darkness/chain was active) but shaman for instance now had damage reduced if they tried to kite (I never did that, but some did before the nerf).

I either dotted and used melee, or rarely used root-rot, but it still ticked me off on principle as it seemed to only affect Shaman. I'm not sure why it was even done, but if the purpose was to alleviate people being trained by those with a "well don't sit there, if you don't want to be trained" attitude, they sure as hell targeted the wrong class. I don't remember ever, EVER being killed by a mob being kited by a Shaman, being we could only drag one at a time and it certainly had us highest on its aggro list.

But nonetheless, they did eventually nerf dots for full speed mobs, I can't remember when it was, but it might have been after Kunark, I really didn't pay that much attention and after the initial cool down period, didn't give it any thought, I just bashed stuff over the head 33 percent harder and it made up the difference.

[tokso]

Was this change ever reverted in pre-Luclin or is it going to be permanent on this server? just curious.

[Comapavik]

My dots aren't lasting any longer. Still the same dmg on a nonmoving mob.

[m7jones]

As a level 10 bard, I haven't noticed any difference in dot damage while kitting. Still doing 8 damage per tick moving or not. Not sure if this is a bug or not the mobs don't have a snare or anything.

[Ostros]

Was this change ever reverted in pre-Luclin or is it going to be permanent on this server? just curious.

Gonna be permanent. The reversion came in 2002 post-Luclin according to the patch notes archive.

[Rust1d?]

Was kiting ever an intended strategy in EQ? It seemed like back in the day, someone found out about kiting and it became a viable strategy. Surely the devs back then had to know about kiting when EQ was in beta. It did take a while before they nerfed it. Was it because the devs never intended kiting to occur or was it just a reaction to non-DOT classes complaining?

Same with the necro pet nerfs. To me it was more about people complaining until the devs made nerfs rather than something not working as intended.

Just to make a valid point. In SC2 (whoever is in the know) Voidrays were complained about like crazy until they were finally nerfed. It was not because they were OP, it was because people did not scout or had no idea how to counter.

I just joined up and made a mage, so it does not effect me, but made me mad when my druid was nerfed on live when it happened.

[Ostros]

Was kiting ever an intended strategy in EQ? It seemed like back in the day, someone found out about kiting and it became a viable strategy. Surely the devs back then had to know about kiting when EQ was in beta. It did take a while before they nerfed it. Was it because the devs never intended kiting to occur or was it just a reaction to non-DOT classes complaining?

It's not that they never intended, I think. If they were going to try and discourage kitting the nerf would have been tons worse. They knew about fear. They knew Necros have root at 34. They knew 66% wouldn't stop solo kitting. They DESIGNED necros to be able to solo themselves to 50/60 and they've been that way ever since '99. Necros all through the original three could really tear it up with enough open land to run around with. Verant gave them snare and enough stackable DoTs to bring down a wide array of mobs. They had to know it was going to happen.

With all this said I want to say they did it to bring solo kitting classes in line with the rest of the classes, if even just a bit. Druids were better than necros at some kitting even. Even after this patch I just said "olol fear" and I'm still leveling faster than anybody grouping.

It's a downer of a nerf, but it's not unfair...especially to an Iksar necro like myself who is already sitting on a 32% penalty and still grinding away at levels pretty smoothly.

[Hijynx]

So druid epic is going to be gimped out eh?

[Zuranthium]

The devs said that they never intended SoW to be used the way it was. It was just supposed to be for traveling. They underestimated the power of movement with regards to actual combat. It was ultimately a very good thing. We now have PvP MMO's like Guild Wars that took the movement game to a whole new level and built upon the mechanic such that it brings a whole extra dimension to the gameplay.

[Darwoth]

this was the period druids were screwed for a while because it was not until later that they made it so druid roots did not have a chance to break from dot ticks.

eventually all was well again as root/rot became actually viable instead of where you would have to reapply the root 3 or 4 times over the course of one dot making it impossible to med while the dot ticked down.

[Strifer]

Its been a few hours, I want my dot damage back.

http://www.tipb.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/kent-cry-baby.jpg

[pallius]

Get your facts straight sir. There was never a dot nerf in live in the classic game. Having actually played(unlike some of the people bouncing on the - this was in live - bandwagon) during live there was never a nerf to dots until late Luclin and that was only to certain spells. If THIS were the case, why would people be snare kiting things as a druid? I played a necromancer on live and played it almost exclusively off of dot kiting, there was no nerf, and I have no idea where this came from.

This is exactly how live worked. It is also why necros used to fear kite a lot more than aggro kite. Aggro kiting got real big in PoP when you could no longer fear exp mobs.

[Rhambuk]

This is exactly how live worked. It is also why necros used to fear kite a lot more than aggro kite. Aggro kiting got real big in PoP when you could no longer fear exp mobs.

All of these people jumping on the nerf bandwagon are wrong!!! This one guys memory is obviously how it was. Mold the server around what he remembers please.

[gnomishfirework]

I clearly remember with 100.1% certainty that dots didn't exist until luclin. Please remove them and get off the dot bandwagon. You all probably started playing after velious.

[Rhambuk]

I clearly remember with 100.1% certainty that dots didn't exist until luclin. Please remove them and get off the dot bandwagon. You all probably started playing after velious.

I remember that our guild leader (shaman) only buffed with inner fire, using the excuse that he was to busy, so please remove all shaman buffs except for inner fire. You're ruining my immersion

[Pezmerga]

According to the original patch notes Uthgaard posted back on page 2 or so, DoTs are supposed to last longer and do the same damage they did before nerf if the mob is moving, or more if mob isnt moving...so I fail to see why people are angry.

Besides, cant druids quad, and Necros fear? Try living for once! :P

[Comapavik]

I'm a Shaman, but my dots aren't lasting any longer.

On a perma-rooted mob, they still hit for the same # of ticks and do the same damage.

Not a huge deal for me, but hopefully they add some duration to mitigate the nerf a little bit.

[Messianic]

Sometimes it's better to remain quiet and be thought ignorant then to open your mouth (type witty phrases on a forum) and remove all doubt.

I'm not the one who made a 100% wrong statement with absolute certainty. You did.

You actually did it again:

The nerf this is refering to? It came at the very end of Kunark and even then it was said by Verant that it was done incorrectly

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19990913.html


SEPTEMBER 13, 1999

DoT Changes:

* If the monster is in melee with you, there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
* If the monster is running away from you (fear, wounded, etc.), there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
* If the monster is moving when the damage from the DoT is applied (happens every few seconds), it will take 66% of the damage that it would have taken.
* DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the monster moves for 18 seconds during a fight, it will take as much damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it would have before the patch.

Again, you have absolute certainty, but you're still wrong. Go argue that with the Devs and prove to them that this should occur at the end of kunark. They have far better evidence than you do.

You're just mad at me and now changing your argument ("It was this way" to "well verant admitted it was done incorrectly") because it was proven that you don't know what you're talking about. Twice.

[thefloydian]

DoT Changes:

* If the monster is in melee with you, there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
* If the monster is running away from you (fear, wounded, etc.), there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
* If the monster is moving when the damage from the DoT is applied (happens every few seconds), it will take 66% of the damage that it would have taken.
* DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the monster moves for 18 seconds during a fight, it will take as much damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it would have before the patch.


Sorry if I'm an idiot, but I'm having a hard time understanding this. It says when monsters are feared the dots aren't affected, but then the next few lines seem to contradict this information.

Does fear kiting still work as it did before?

Also, in terms of the modified duration, does time spent feared count toward the 18 seconds?

[jerus]

All dots do less damage when a mob is chasing, if rooted/feared/tanked/fleeing it will do the same damage. To offset the nerf durations have been raised sounds like 1 tick, so that after 18s the 33% nerf will bet he equivalent of that added tick in total damage. So if the mob is running for 18s it does the same overall damage for the spell but over a longer time, if the mob is not running at all you will gain an extra tick with no detriment at all.

[Extunarian]

I like the new poll results.

[lanystvyl]

This will in no way effect my necro Uberness

[hrafn]

it wasnt a nerf it was a fix. if it was a nerf then they would change it from how its intended to be, to be weaker. this was just fixed to the way it was supposed to be

[thefloydian]

My dots aren't lasting any longer. Still the same dmg on a nonmoving mob.

Yep. My dots are doing the same amount of damage to mobs that are completely stationary for the entire fight.

[RiffDaemon]

but shaman for instance now had damage reduced if they tried to kite (I never did that, but some did before the nerf).


Hehe, I did. DoT'ing, running, and taking a sit right before each tick was a very efficient way to kill things I wouldn't be able to otherwise, e.g. ghouls that were very very red to me. Luckily, I've got Root now :D Unfortunately, I doubt Root will stick on most red mobs, lol.

But whatever. This is Classic, and I like the punishment.

[baalzy]

Keep in mind, spell durations were based off kunark sp_dat durations. This is why DoTs aren't lasting any longer now then they did before the patch. Their duration was already at the length they should have been, it was the damage that was off.