Home Ownership

[Gatordash]

When a home becomes everything that a family owns it's kind of like saying the american dream is to work off your debt.

Ouch?

Yeah that is exactly how our economy works. It would tank if the people in this country spent within their means and didn't constantly owe money.

[Whale biologist]

Yeah that is exactly how our economy works. It would tank if the people in this country spent within their means and didn't constantly owe money.

Time to bring this sort of kitchen table economics to DC! :p

[unsunghero]

Yup I’ve been in debt since I was 18 lol. Never been able to escape credit card debt :(

[Jibartik]

Yeah that is exactly how our economy works. It would tank if the people in this country spent within their means and didn't constantly owe money.

They told us to go out and spend our emergency stipend during the pandemic or else

:(

[Gatordash]

They told us to go out and spend our emergency stipend during the pandemic or else

:(

lol that money was for the necessities! I'm too lazy to look it up but I remember there being a bunch of line charts showing how consumer spending lined up exactly when stimulus checks hit in April 2020, Dec 2020, and March 2021.

[Tunabros]

Save 2-5 times your yearly salary, take out a loan for 10 to 15 times you’re at yearly salary.

Tell everyone it’s great!

I live in California at the moment :(:(

[Homesteaded]

If you don’t have a mortgage at the age of 30 you’ve made significant mistakes.

[Jibartik]

I live in California at the moment :(:(

Tack on a couple zero's :D

[imperiouskitten]

Yup I’ve been in debt since I was 18 lol. Never been able to escape credit card debt :(

feel it. well I have escaped basically by going on the run from creditors. RIP lol, cash life. Aint so bad but the floor is harder.

if you want to know why/how, well I started supporting a bf right out of university because I am sucker. well he did always pretend he would get a job real soon and sliding into debt supporting us was not the crisis it appeared, so maybe its not my fault completely. idk. but i was floundering within 2 yrs. also drugs. -_- so now im kinda putting off rejoining the land of the normies who can get a place to live without hijinks, because it would consume too much working capital. I better get to that lol.

[unsunghero]

feel it. well I have escaped basically by going on the run from creditors. RIP lol, cash life. Aint so bad but the floor is harder.

if you want to know why/how, well I started supporting a bf right out of university because I am sucker. well he did always pretend he would get a job real soon and sliding into debt supporting us was not the crisis it appeared, so maybe its not my fault completely. idk. but i was floundering within 2 yrs. also drugs. -_- so now im kinda putting off rejoining the land of the normies who can get a place to live without hijinks, because it would consume too much working capital. I better get to that lol.

Jealous that are least you are rid of it though. I have this friend/co-worker who’s dad taught him about the stock market and investing ever since he was like 14. He started on his own as soon as he was able, and I’ve almost never seen him lose money on any of his stocks. He also made thousands getting into Bitcoin before it was big. Sometimes I get a little tempted hearing him talk about investments and ask what he would recommend for me to invest in, stock wise. He always tells me that the absolute best use of my money right now is to continue paying off my credit card debt. He said no stock gain is likely to come close to what the interest is costing me there. Already figured that, but it’s boring lol. Just gotta keep plugging away at it I guess, and resist the urge to spend. 2 of the cards I don’t have a physical card for anymore and refuse to order another so that helps with the discipline in not continuing to use it

It’s a seller’s market right now with buying or renting a home, and the bubbles are cyclical so a bust will eventually come when prices go down….

[imperiouskitten]

Jealous that are least you are rid of it though. I have this friend/co-worker who’s dad taught him about the stock market and investing ever since he was like 14. He started on his own as soon as he was able, and I’ve almost never seen him lose money on any of his stocks. He also made thousands getting into Bitcoin before it was big. Sometimes I get a little tempted hearing him talk about investments and ask what he would recommend for me to invest in, stock wise. He always tells me that the absolute best use of my money right now is to continue paying off my credit card debt. He said no stock gain is likely to come close to what the interest is costing me there. Already figured that, but it’s boring lol. Just gotta keep plugging away at it I guess, and resist the urge to spend. 2 of the cards I don’t have a physical card for anymore and refuse to order another so that helps with the discipline in not continuing to use it

It’s a seller’s market right now with buying or renting a home, and the bubbles are cyclical so a bust will eventually come when prices go down. However if a person is pretty networked theoretically they could just use roommates to completely cover their mortgage, even with no income of their own coming in. But that would mean finding ones with reliable incomes and ones that might be ok with sharing things like a bathroom. And then there could come questions of ok who is going to do cleaning/maintenance and then what is the plan if there’s drama amongst roommates or something?

Oh man I just can't do the roommates thing although I believe in its power very much. Partnership is the best I can do psychologically, I have learned by experience. Oh the sexual harassment I have gotten from roommates too dude. Having work the next day and the couple you live with is drunkenly demanding a threesome. Just because I worked the flirtation angle to get my foot in that killer deal of a rental with the charitable christian landlords going under market rate...sheesh it's not a quid pro quo thing man!

as for buying a home you are definitely right. remember the bust of 08. if you had cash in the bank for land you were money green golden. i was too young :(

[starkind]

I want my home to be owned and armed by liek Canada or France, not the CCP or USR

I'm a seditionist traitor :(

[unsunghero]

Oh man I just can't do the roommates thing although I believe in its power very much. Partnership is the best I can do psychologically, I have learned by experience. Oh the sexual harassment I have gotten from roommates too dude. Having work the next day and the couple you live with is drunkenly demanding a threesome. Just because I worked the flirtation angle to get my foot in that killer deal of a rental with the charitable christian landlords going under market rate...sheesh it's not a quid pro quo thing man!

as for buying a home you are definitely right. remember the bust of 08. if you had cash in the bank for land you were money green golden. i was too young :(

Ya, and another big vulnerability of that plan (and the reason I deleted that section), is that claiming to have future roommate rental payments as income won’t be accepted as income on a mortgage application. Most likely with no current source of income, the application would be declined

So (assuming one could get decent roommates), the plan would only work for someone who already had purchased the home somehow

[Jibartik]

I really do hope there is a massive crash. People that invest in real estate do not deserve the security they have.

Evergreen took out a 300 billion dollar lone to invest in real estate. A 300 billion dollar loan.

I hate for profit real estate all it does is cause collapses.

5HYQgpi1YSI

[unsunghero]

I really do hope there is a massive crash. People that invest in real estate do not deserve the security they have.

Evergreen took out a 300 billion dollar lone to invest in real estate. A 300 billion dollar loan.

I hate for profit real estate all it does is cause collapses.

5HYQgpi1YSI

Yeah and what’s that one that’s buying up like….everything? Blackrock? I just remember it because it reminds me of WoW

[Duik]

People want McMansions. Median, average (whatever) price has been driven up by the youngens wanting what they cant afford, and what the fakebooks et al tell them they need.
Not all houses are three quarters of a million dollars. Not all houses are 150k either.
Im an old '65 model, i built a house for 102k + 1 year to do it @ 50k loss of earnings so 150k, modest house ¼ acre lots of work nearby. 3 cities within 50km.
This will piss the youngens off.
Payed cash for my house. The company i work for now, the owner told me it was the dumbest thing ive done. Should have leveraged this and negative geared that.
I disagree.
This is only Australia so probably doesnt count.
YMMV.

[Gatordash]

Good news everyone. (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/existing-home-sales-decline-as-buyers-hold-out-for-better-prices-more-options-11632320151)

Existing-home sales dropped 2% to a seasonally-adjusted, annual rate of 5.88 million in August, the National Association of Realtors said Wednesday. Compared with August 2020, home sales were down 1.5%.

“Although there was a decline in home purchases, potential buyers are out and about searching, but much more measured about their financial limits, and simply waiting for more inventory,” Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors, said in the report.

The good news for would-be buyers is that the inventory of homes for sale is improving. Since the low reached in the winter, inventory has risen roughly 16%, according to an analysis from Ian Shepherdson, chief economist at Pantheon Macroeconomics. At the same time, price appreciation has slowed, with home prices now rising by less than 1%, according to Shepherdson’s calculations, rather than more than 2% per month at the market’s peak.

“These trends are likely to continue, as sellers realize that the window for cashing-in at the best prices appears to be closing,” Shepherdson wrote.

[Gatordash]

The eviction moratorium was pretty much what everyone thought. Reports here in Las Vegas (https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/tenants-facing-overdue-rent-moving-out-leaving-some-nevada-landlords-hoping-for-help/article_be43278a-1b43-11ec-824c-77373fc2320e.html) are that people just didn't pay rent for a year because they didn't have to. And now that the moratorium is up, instead of staying where they are and going through this whole government assistance program that we have heard politicians tout as necessary because these poor people couldn't pay rent due to coronovirus, they are just moving out and leaving landlords to pay for everything for the past year. The next breaking story will be when we discover that sending checks to people to do nothing makes them sit at home instead of go look for a job. Then the breaking story after that will be having a population that doesn't produce any GDP turns out to be bad and just printing money may not be the solution.

[Whale biologist]

The eviction moratorium was pretty much what everyone thought. Reports here in Las Vegas (https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/tenants-facing-overdue-rent-moving-out-leaving-some-nevada-landlords-hoping-for-help/article_be43278a-1b43-11ec-824c-77373fc2320e.html) are that people just didn't pay rent for a year because they didn't have to. And now that the moratorium is up, instead of staying where they are and going through this whole government assistance program that we have heard politicians tout as necessary because these poor people couldn't pay rent due to coronovirus, they are just moving out and leaving landlords to pay for everything for the past year. The next breaking story will be when we discover that sending checks to people to do nothing makes them sit at home instead of go look for a job. Then the breaking story after that will be having a population that doesn't produce any GDP turns out to be bad and just printing money may not be the solution.

There was a Seattle story about a dude renting (small) hotel rooms for $365/mo to singles("bachelor hotel"). But the moratorium meant he couldn't evict anyone so nobody paid and it got wrecked.

He went bankrupt and lost his business. Now the city took it over as $600/week low-income housing.

🇺🇲

[starkind]

We just shouldn't respect the authority or legitimacy of 300billion dollar loans, gg motherfuckers.

Not what god wants. Jesus says do better. Topple them temples.

[Jibartik]

We just shouldn't respect the authority or legitimacy of 300billion dollar loans, gg motherfuckers.

Not what god wants. Jesus says do better. Topple them temples.

If I had a wish, it would be that america defaulted on its loans to china while evergreen is cratering.

Go Go mitch mcconnell!

[unsunghero]

The eviction moratorium was pretty much what everyone thought. Reports here in Las Vegas (https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/tenants-facing-overdue-rent-moving-out-leaving-some-nevada-landlords-hoping-for-help/article_be43278a-1b43-11ec-824c-77373fc2320e.html) are that people just didn't pay rent for a year because they didn't have to. And now that the moratorium is up, instead of staying where they are and going through this whole government assistance program that we have heard politicians tout as necessary because these poor people couldn't pay rent due to coronovirus, they are just moving out and leaving landlords to pay for everything for the past year. The next breaking story will be when we discover that sending checks to people to do nothing makes them sit at home instead of go look for a job. Then the breaking story after that will be having a population that doesn't produce any GDP turns out to be bad and just printing money may not be the solution.

Yup, all good points

I remember politicians like AOC seem to think that landlords are like evil money-grabbing sociopaths, and she just doesn’t seem to understand or care that landlords need rent payments from their tenants to stay in business themselves, and to keep their staff employed. AOC probably doesn’t realize that in my state in the southwest almost all apartment maintenance crews are Hispanic workers. Fuck all them right? Yeah let’s get them all laid off because AOC thinks their boss is fucking evil, because she’s a dumb bartender

I go into a lot of apartments in my job, ones that range from HUD/Section 8 ghettos to some of the nicest luxury $3000+/mo ones. I mostly go into poor apartments. I’ve seen the entire gamut of landlords, and just like any job in the USA, there are more good ones than bad ones. I’ve seen landlords that even before covid would let people stay after they’ve missed a payment. I’ve seen landlords work with people on taking whatever payment they can and rolling overdue payments into the next month. No landlord is just going to offer this, a person has to come to their office and ask for help, and then what helps them make a case for their situation is a history of reliability and no past issues

I’ve also seen the flip side, where a landlord will post an eviction notice after usually a couple missed payments. This still has to go to court; a lot of people misunderstand how evictions work and think a landlord can just change the locks or tell the police to trespass someone who has an established history of living there off the premises….nope. Police might ask the person to show them proof of residency such as a letter/bill for rent, and if they do, police tell the landlord to take them to court and then police fuck right off

The worst I ever saw was HUD housing where the landlord was completely MIA, and the apartment had like 3 kids inside where the mom showed us huge black mold sections in the kitchen and bathrooms under the sinks from damaged walls/plumbing. So yea terrible landlords exist too, but not to the degree AOC thinks they do. And even if the landlord is terrible, that doesn’t mean their staff is always terrible

[Jibartik]

Im all for banning owning multiple homes or having a world war 3 to lower the pop, one or the other.

[blindedsoul]

You know or we could just tax the rich, the fact that our govt is paying tax rebates to the richest companies in the world is insane lol let alone while they consistently dodge those tax liabilities they are getting money back from.

Enough morons trying to launch themselves into orbit for a minute while that money could be used to give money monthly income to every person in America below the ultra ultra rich.

The difference between 10 million dollars and 10 billion dollars direct income is only important in the eye of the wealth hoarder.

[Jibartik]

Every time someone says tax the rich MY taxes go up and the rich get another 10 billion in international investments.

[Whale biologist]

You know or we could just tax the rich, the fact that our govt is paying tax rebates to the richest companies in the world is insane lol let alone while they consistently dodge those tax liabilities they are getting money back from.

Not what's happening. The computer is telling you that by their tax breaks outsumming their tax remittals, they have paid "$0" dollars. We know this as cookie stealing.

https://i.imgur.com/9jRCvTz.png

[blindedsoul]

my dude you are not earning over a million yearly.... and if you are then your taxes would be going down by every estimate over the last 30 years.

When the rich dont pay taxes, that is when OUR taxes go up because no one is paying them other than the lower classes.

Also @whale biologist you are failing to understand that states individually are giving tax rebates and leniency to get amazon warehouses.... this is common practice lmk if you need an article.

What I dont get here is how you see the 6 largest corporations in America paying nothing in taxes and you think yeah this system works, the neo liberal mind is very convoluted

[Jibartik]

We'll never fix these problems without a sledgehammer.

[Homesteaded]

my dude you are not earning over a million yearly.... and if you are then your taxes would be going down by every estimate over the last 30 years.

When the rich dont pay taxes, that is when OUR taxes go up because no one is paying them other than the lower classes.

Also @whale biologist you are failing to understand that states individually are giving tax rebates and leniency to get amazon warehouses.... this is common practice lmk if you need an article.

What I dont get here is how you see the 6 largest corporations in America paying nothing in taxes and you think yeah this system works, the neo liberal mind is very convoluted

Yeah, the 6 largest corporations in America are paying nothing in taxes. Hard to refute this...holy smokes are you dumb.

Typically when I've seen people make claims that the rich or corporations are paying nothing in taxes, what they really mean is that they think the rich and corporations should be taxed based on their net worth. If you think individuals and businesses should be taxed this way, you're a communist, or you're poor and dumb, could be all of the above. You're welcome.

[blindedsoul]

Gonna be honest homesteaded you got no business calling anyone else stupid while you dont even understand your trying to pedal neoliberalism

I can help educate you but I am pretty sure you don't even understand the economic model you are trying to pedal while screaming dumbass trigger words like communism.

the top tax rate was 70% in 1970 meaning if you took over 10 million dollars from a business as INCOME they have to pay 70% or REINVEST that money into their business or other ventures. It creates job growth, unlike this Reagonomics neo liberal BS you keep pedaling that has never worked historically anywhere.

Currently the top 6 corporations in America pay nothing in federal taxes and get rebates from states saying we should continue bearing the tax burden of the entire society is nuts compared to other economic models/ historical.

Taxing the rich is not communism, it just means you are not a pleb waiting to get stepped on and say more daddy (homesteaded)

( no one suggested net amount stop self triggering your conservative mind. Like wtf who even suggests such a stupid idea only you brought it up after triggering yourself)

[Homesteaded]

You're a fool if you think the rich and corporations pay no taxes. Like full blown moron, how anyone can say this with a straight face is beyond me.

[Gatordash]

When the rich dont pay taxes, that is when OUR taxes go up because no one is paying them other than the lower classes.


If you are in the top 40% of income earners then you are part of paying 84% of the country's taxes. The bottom 60% pay fuck all. If you are in the bottom 40% then you are not only not paying taxes but you are getting money back.

[Whale biologist]

Typically when I've seen people make claims that the rich or corporations are paying nothing in taxes, what they really mean is that they think the rich and corporations should be taxed based on their net worth. If you think individuals and businesses should be taxed this way, you're a communist, or you're poor and dumb, could be all of the above. You're welcome.

No honor among thieves (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/01/elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-propose-3percent-wealth-tax-on-billionaires.html)

[Whale biologist]

Also @whale biologist you are failing to understand that states individually are giving tax rebates and leniency to get amazon warehouses.... this is common practice lmk if you need an article.


Guess what? The people they hire at those warehouses pay taxes from their earnings. Yet that money came from Amazon. Curious!

If you tax from the top down, the revenue vanishes because they don't have cash for capital expenditures, like building warehouses to employ more of those workers.

[blindedsoul]

You guys just take your own dipshit trigger-words/ idea's and just run with them don't you?

No one said net worth other than another conservative neo liberal you are self triggering yourselves.

Can any of you 3 actually read the prior comment or do you guys just read conservative trigger-words and mime off each other like the birds from nemo.

1970 top corporate income tax rate was 70%, now its less than 30 the tax burden has been shifted onto the other lower classes. There is no example anywhere where the top 1% 's tax rate has gone up in the last 40 years since this Reagonomics failed neo liberalism experiment.

Nothing is trickling down, it has not worked it will never work, Trickle down is just piss economics going down your back.

Amazon only pays well because they have a terrible time retaining a workforce/ their workplace injuries are on average 400% higher than other warehouses.
Meanwhile they have actively engaged in destroying competitors markets/ destroyed other american job growth Source below one of many they do this universally across markets to destroy competitors.

better source https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-diapers-price-war-2010-11
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-29/amazon-emails-show-effort-to-weaken-diapers-com-before-buying-it

We have an unhealthy amount of plebians groveling to lick the boots of the 1% and pay the taxes for the 1% its kind of sick in America and its why working class taxes keep going up.

[Jibartik]

How about no income tax then? Since the only people that pay it are poor.

This country doesn't need more taxes to spend on bailing out rich people you want to tax.

They all own 100 million in property, that's the problem.

[Gatordash]

Don't blame other people for you being unable to make a coherent point. Figure out if you want to tax the rich or tax corporations. You can't say both and then get mad when people point out one or the other for being dumb.

And either way if you want to tax the rich it will never happen because unlike what you said, the people don't lick the boots of the 1%, politician's do. That's how they got there. And if you want to tax corporations then you will have to get the government to change the tax code and also to stop bailing out corporations when they are 'too big to fail' even though they will just take the money and put it into stock buybacks so management gets even wealthier.

[Homesteaded]

1970 top corporate income tax rate was 70%, now its less than 30 the tax burden has been shifted onto the other lower classes. There is no example anywhere where the top 1% 's tax rate has gone up in the last 40 years since this Reagonomics failed neo liberalism experiment.

30 > 0 Right?

The 1970's just a great time economically. The decade that gave us 15%+ mortgage rates. Surely a time to model. Next.

[Jibartik]

HAHA income.

They obtain property, they dont make income.

They blow any profits they have on more houses at a loss to make income to blow on more houses on a loss next year etc

They do however pay more taxes for those purchases than anyone reading this will pay in income tax during your entire existence fwiw.

But that just means we shouldn't get rid of income taxes.

[Bardp1999]

Just got done cleaning my in-ground pool and outdoor kitchen, having some friends over to watch AEW tonight. Enjoy your apartment loser

[Gatordash]

Just got done cleaning my in-ground pool and outdoor kitchen, having some friends over to watch AEW tonight. Enjoy your apartment loser

Imagine cleaning your own pool, what a poor :rolleyes:

[Whale biologist]

and outdoor kitchen

https://i.imgur.com/XF8oP6A.jpg

[unsunghero]

Just got done cleaning my in-ground pool and outdoor kitchen, having some friends over to watch AEW tonight. Enjoy your apartment loser

Gym less than 2 miles away has indoor heated Olympic sized pool where I’m guaranteed to get a lane when I go after work (8pm). I do laps 3x/week on the days I can’t run. I fucking hate it…can’t listen to my loud edm…and I suck at swimming no matter how much I do it I can’t get my stroke to where I can breathe comfortably. Not even fun when high on edibles

But I do it. All the fuckin time. Anyway… $15/mo and no maintenance work for me

[Jibartik]

Just got done cleaning my in-ground pool and outdoor kitchen, having some friends over to watch AEW tonight. Enjoy your apartment loser

The point of this thread is that your victory is shallow and you deserve more.

[Bardp1999]

Imagine cleaning your own pool, what a poor :rolleyes:

You're not wrong, it's peasant work, and its actually very time consuming

[Gatordash]

You're not wrong, it's peasant work, and its actually very time consuming

Brushing dirt/algae off the stairs is both the worst and oddly satisfying at the same time when you see that cloud come up and the stair is clean again.

[unsunghero]

You're not wrong, it's peasant work, and its actually very time consuming

I do washing bi-weekly, 303 on all outside/inside rubber monthly, and waxing bi-monthly on this beaut. If I do all 3 same day I’m looking at about 3ish hours of straight work…

I listen to super angry political podcasts on my headphones when I do it

[blindedsoul]

There has been no time in history trickle down economics has worked, amazon pays the minimal amount they can to retain a workforce.

This is your shining example
https://i.imgur.com/oZUYc7U.jpeg

The 1970's and 80's were the best time to buy a house in the housing market from nearly every perspective. The homes have appreciated greatly in value and equivalent incomes have not rose since Reagan came to power with "trickle down economics" Aka horse and sparrow economics saying if you feed the horses well enough the sparrows (us the working class) Will have good enough shit to pick through. You dont increase working incomes by lowering taxes on the ultra rich...

These are standard demand keynesian economics which make sense, vs this neo liberal crap conservatives have been pushing since reagan (Reagonomics piss on my back daddy)
Neo liberal economics aka trickle down derived from the Chicago school, Thatcher and the Reagan administration through the belief if you had more items on the shelf that would drive demand... (Supply side economics)

In reality when you tax corporate incomes to individuals above a million dollars it forces the corporation to have to reinvest that money into new ventures and not pay taxes or pay a high tax amount to support a healthy economy / give that employee more direct money.

Idk how many times I have to explain to thick people I have said income so many times but just takes one guy typing a conservative triggerword before you flare up screaming communism and net taxes.

If minimum wage kept up with productivity we would be earning 20 dollars an hour Source below.
https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/sarah.rawlins/viz/TrendsintheMinimumWage/Graph

Final edit, 15% mortgage is a flat out lie that can be proven with a quick google search. But just to prove homesteaded is lying again for the corporations he licks the boots of.

Thanks to Freddie Mac, there’s solid data available for 30-year fixed-rate mortgage rates beginning in 1971.

Rates in 1971 were in the mid-7% range, and they moved up steadily until they were at 9.19% in 1974. They briefly dipped down into the mid- to high-8% range before climbing to 11.20% in 1979. This was during a period of high inflation that hit its peak early in the next decade. (SHOCKER REAGANOMICS)
Source: https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/historical-mortgage-rates-30-year-fixed
Mortgage Rate At 8.5% (in 1970) - The New York Times

Actual truth in the matter in 1981 UNDER REAGANS PRESIDENCY/INFLATION got up to 18.5% in 1981

After all those lies homesteaded do you have any actual sources for the neo liberal boot licking bullshit you keep pedaling?

[Homesteaded]

15% mortgages and this guy is claiming it was the best time to buy a home.

Our poors have issues of too many calories and having to use iPhones that are 3 generations behind. Tell me again how this isn't working?

[Homesteaded]

It was without a doubt a better time to buy a home in the 70s than it is now.

Right now in this moment, sure. But we’re in a global supply chain issue that is causing it, not our economic policies.

[Jibartik]

Right now in this moment, sure. But we’re in a global supply chain issue that is causing it, not our economic policies.

I agree with you there.

Although I would argue that it's more than a global supply chain issue, and the 300 billion dollars evergreen spent on real estate that it defaulted on, and a whole bunch of other things.

The umbrella problem is speculation and investing trying to manufacture unlimited profits with limited supply.

America works better when it's a country where the little guy can comfortably invest in themselves.

We changed from that ethos to investing in the market and that has turned us all into savages.

[Homesteaded]

I’m all for more regulation of speculative markets.

[Whale biologist]

There has been no time in history trickle down economics has worked, amazon pays the minimal amount they can to retain a workforce.

This is your shining example
https://i.imgur.com/oZUYc7U.jpeg

The 1970's and 80's were the best time to buy a house in the housing market from nearly every perspective. The homes have appreciated greatly in value and equivalent incomes have not rose since Reagan came to power with "trickle down economics" Aka horse and sparrow economics saying if you feed the horses well enough the sparrows (us the working class) Will have good enough shit to pick through. You dont increase working incomes by lowering taxes on the ultra rich...

These are standard demand keynesian economics which make sense, vs this neo liberal crap conservatives have been pushing since reagan (Reagonomics piss on my back daddy)
Neo liberal economics aka trickle down derived from the Chicago school, Thatcher and the Reagan administration through the belief if you had more items on the shelf that would drive demand... (Supply side economics)

In reality when you tax corporate incomes to individuals above a million dollars it forces the corporation to have to reinvest that money into new ventures and not pay taxes or pay a high tax amount to support a healthy economy / give that employee more direct money.

Idk how many times I have to explain to thick people I have said income so many times but just takes one guy typing a conservative triggerword before you flare up screaming communism and net taxes.

If minimum wage kept up with productivity we would be earning 20 dollars an hour Source below.
https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/sarah.rawlins/viz/TrendsintheMinimumWage/Graph

Final edit, 15% mortgage is a flat out lie that can be proven with a quick google search. But just to prove homesteaded is lying again for the corporations he licks the boots of.

Thanks to Freddie Mac, there’s solid data available for 30-year fixed-rate mortgage rates beginning in 1971.

Rates in 1971 were in the mid-7% range, and they moved up steadily until they were at 9.19% in 1974. They briefly dipped down into the mid- to high-8% range before climbing to 11.20% in 1979. This was during a period of high inflation that hit its peak early in the next decade. (SHOCKER REAGANOMICS)
Source: https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/historical-mortgage-rates-30-year-fixed
Mortgage Rate At 8.5% (in 1970) - The New York Times

Actual truth in the matter in 1981 UNDER REAGANS PRESIDENCY/INFLATION got up to 18.5% in 1981

After all those lies homesteaded do you have any actual sources for the neo liberal boot licking bullshit you keep pedaling?

Ok, didn't read, but Warren and Bernie wanted a wealth tax.

That's stealing.

[unsunghero]

Ok, didn't read, but Warren and Bernie wanted a wealth tax.

That's stealing.

Damn straight

Edit: and no I don’t like rich people, never gonna be one, don’t give two shits about the well-being of rich people

[Jibartik]

Bubble bubble bubble pop POP (https://www.tiktok.com/@seangotcher/video/7007855978309848325?lang=en&is_copy_url=0&is_from_webapp=v1&sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6960446482491606534)

[Gatordash]

I need to put some money in Zillow.

[Jibartik]

Not a bad idea, if everyone keeps playing the game that'll probubly pay off big time over the long run.

I dont think people can handle quitting the game so they'll keep increasing their debt just like the goverment does so it's prob a smart move Gator.

Come to think of it, statistically our generations parents blew our generations inheritances, I wonder if our generation will pass off as much debt to our children, as our parents generation inherited wealth from their parents generation before we started this downward spiral of everyone owes money to everyone system.

Like, at some point it's like, why not just take out loans indefinitely and then just forget about it when you die. It's what the goverment is doing. It's the only way to balance that budget or maintain an economy, so it makes sense that we'll trend that way over time in our personal lives.

I wonder.

[Jibartik]

They should rename the big short to the big trump supporter mew mew naval gaze mew.

ZHXPa2K97PU

[Gatordash]

Wrong. Stonks and houses never go down.

[Gatordash]

I think its finally happening. Home prices are starting to come down a bit and inventory is starting to go up a bit. I've been watching some of these 1/2 acre lots (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6420-W-Oquendo-Rd-Las-Vegas-NV-89118/7149511_zpid/) (tough to come by in Vegas) and a bunch have dropped like 50k in price over just the past 2-3 months.

Las Vegas housing market stabilizing despite record-setting growth (https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/las-vegas-housing-market-stabilizing-despite-record-setting-growth/article_c9eb37b0-2644-11ec-9501-dbad83ed986a.html?block_id=1002214)

Housing Inventory: Active Listing Count in Las Vegas (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ACTLISCOU29820)

[unsunghero]

I think its finally happening. Home prices are starting to come down a bit and inventory is starting to go up a bit. I've been watching some of these 1/2 acre lots (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6420-W-Oquendo-Rd-Las-Vegas-NV-89118/7149511_zpid/) (tough to come by in Vegas) and a bunch have dropped like 50k in price over just the past 2-3 months.

Las Vegas housing market stabilizing despite record-setting growth (https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/las-vegas-housing-market-stabilizing-despite-record-setting-growth/article_c9eb37b0-2644-11ec-9501-dbad83ed986a.html?block_id=1002214)

Housing Inventory: Active Listing Count in Las Vegas (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ACTLISCOU29820)

Nice man, hopefully trending downwards!

Ima be at Harrah’s casino nov 12-15 weekend with big family group. Can’t wait to lose my $100/day gambling budget in 20 minutes playing backjack and then sulk around for 15 hours :)

[Gatordash]

I haven't been to Harrah's in years but its in a good location on the strip. They are building this dumb sphere behind harrah's you can check out, its called msg sphere. I havent seen that money pit yet. Speaking of money pits in vegas, they just finished this new casino called ResortWorld that apparently isn't doing great.

US Census Bureau (https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2021/demo/hhp/hhp38.html) Housing Numbers for end of September:
138 million households included.
4.9% are behind on mortgage.
Of those 4.9% behind, 18.4% are 8 months or more behind on mortgage payments. That's well over a million homes that could be getting added to the market soon and about 100,000 more than their poll just two weeks prior (https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2021/demo/hhp/hhp37.html).

[Jibartik]

I asked my doctor what the covid situation was like here and she goes, "idk it seems like everyone gets it from las vegas"

resortWorld sounds like a good time though.

[Gatordash]

Yeah its a city built on getting people from all over the world to come and drink and party. Its a tough crowd to enforce Covid rules on. And now that conventions are back it should make for a fun winter.

[Jibartik]

it's kind of like the plot to The Stand isnt it lol

[unsunghero]

I asked my doctor what the covid situation was like here and she goes, "idk it seems like everyone gets it from las vegas"

resortWorld sounds like a good time though.

I was there last year too, and I’ve been probably 10+ other times in my life. I’d say even during covid in 2020 they still had like 75% as many people as usual

This year it will probably be back up to its usual amount. I had natural immunity from COVID last year, this year I’ve seemed to still have natural immunity (daily gym with no mask or precautions and I can’t seem to catch it) plus I’m still trying to get the vaccine this Friday because work could fire me if I don’t by November

So with natural immunity + whatever unnecessary garbage is in the vaccine, I’m sure I’ll be ok

[Jibartik]

Yea it's all a numbers game too like, if you're going to go to vegas to gamble jus think of entering an elevator the same way.

Id imagine the casino floor is actually pretty safe because of the higher O2 getting pumped in there, as long as some person isnt willin out all next to you and lookn like he sweating around the neck.

[Gatordash]

I think we finally saw the top of the market boys. If you wanted to sell your house, hopefully you did it last month. Mortgage rates (http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/)and inventory have (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSACSR)(albeit slowly) been rising in anticipation of the liquidity taper which isn't even scheduled to start until November/December. Powell doubled down on starting the taper mid November today. I still kinda think there is a chance he doesn't do it in hopes of keeping this Ponzi scheme going until February when he gets re-elected chair of Federal Reserve.

[Gatordash]

Of particular note, our iBuying business, Zillow Offers, continues to accelerate as we offer more customers a fast, fair, flexible and convenient way to move. Zillow Offers is proving attractive to sellers even in this sizzling-hot seller's market. Finally, we expect millennial-buyers, low interest rates, and the increasing adoption of location-flexible work policies, to fuel interest in moving for many years to come. And these movers will increasingly demand e-commerce-like solutions where Zillow excels. -Zillow CEO Rich Barton in August (https://investors.zillowgroup.com/investors/news-and-events/news/news-details/2021/Zillow-Group-Reports-Second-Quarter-2021-Financial-Results/default.aspx)

Zillow put a record number of homes on the market in September, listing properties at the lowest markups since November 2018, according to research from YipitData. It also cut prices on nearly half of its U.S. listings in the third quarter, according to Yipit, signaling that its inventory was commanding prices lower than it expected. -Gizmodo (https://gizmodo.com/zillows-flips-are-now-flops-1847940901)

In mid-October, the company said it would be pausing purchases as it works through a backlog of inventory.

🤔

[Jibartik]

��

how much of that inventory was payed for with covid stimulus? I bet a lot....

[Gatordash]

how much of that inventory was payed for with covid stimulus? I bet a lot....

Not sure. But I get these 'market reports' from Zillow emailed to me like once a week and they always have a 1-year forecasted value and its always like going up 15-20%. In which case, if you're Zillow and you owned thousands of homes that were going to go up 15-20% next year, why would you be working your ass off right now to sell those homes at a loss? And how is this not market manipulation by Zillow?

[Gatordash]

Open houses. Price cuts. Its almost like realtors have to put in an ounce of effort to sell around here. I didn't think cuts would start til next year when the foreclosures finally get through the courts and get listed so supply goes up but it looks like just a small raise in mortgage rates and a large raise in gas prices (inflation) are getting buyers to stay home. 20-50k in price cuts in a 1-2 months period seems pretty significant already. No wonder Zillow got out.

16230

[Jibartik]

you increased teh cost of the homes in that area by 13k by using zillow to search it lol

I wonder if there is any large scale housing issues in the us going to happen if prices go down much?

I dont know a lot about the market rn

[Gatordash]

you increased teh cost of the homes in that area by 13k by using zillow to search it lol

I wonder if there is any large scale housing issues in the us going to happen if prices go down much?

I dont know a lot about the market rn

Interest rates are so low that people aren't going to massively default on their homes like before but with inflation rising and the forbearance nonsense still working its way through courts home prices will continue to drop.

Yeah Zillow still sends me emails saying home prices are going up next year... Yet they got out of the home flipping market and are trying to sell the homes they did buy asap and taking losses on it. Makes sense :rolleyes:

[Gatordash]

I have a new obsession, and its watching house flippers lose money while I'll scroll through Zillow. I can feel their desperation!
1490 Corsica Crest Ct (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1490-Corsica-Crest-Ct-Las-Vegas-NV-89123/63329694_zpid/)


9/3/2021 Sold $548,200
9/24/2021 Listed for sale $570,000

----------------------------

11/19/2021 Price change $563,000
12/10/2021 Price change $554,000

[Gatordash]

For those of us who live on the west coast… if you didn’t like Californians moving in to your state before, you better get used to it.

California amendment proposes doubling state taxes for statewide universal healthcare https://taxfoundation.org/california-health-care-tax-proposal/

If this thing passes and you are looking to buy a home on the west coast, you better buy quick. Get those pre-approvals in because the shitshow in California goes on!

[Jibartik]

For those of us who live on the west coast… if you didn’t like Californians moving in to your state before, you better get used to it.

California amendment proposes doubling state taxes for statewide universal healthcare https://taxfoundation.org/california-health-care-tax-proposal/

If this thing passes and you are looking to buy a home on the west coast, you better buy quick. Get those pre-approvals in because the shitshow in California goes on!

https://i.imgur.com/82I2GZQ.gif

[unsunghero]

For those of us who live on the west coast… if you didn’t like Californians moving in to your state before, you better get used to it.

California amendment proposes doubling state taxes for statewide universal healthcare https://taxfoundation.org/california-health-care-tax-proposal/

If this thing passes and you are looking to buy a home on the west coast, you better buy quick. Get those pre-approvals in because the shitshow in California goes on!

CA plz don’t come, those who haven’t already…

Air quality and traffic are bad enough. I notice a haze in the air at streetlights at night much more often these days

CA NOT WELCOME

[Gatordash]

Meeting with my real estate agent to buy a ridiculously overpriced new home this Saturday. If I'm lucky construction will get finished and I can move into it this year. I gave up on waiting for prices to go down. If you live on the west coast I think there's just nothing you can do about California. I should go back and read my posts in this thread so I can see what an idiot I was thinking prices would go down.

[Jibartik]

Congrats Gator!

How would you feel, out of curiosity, if after the fed hikes the interest rates your home is appraised for 150-250k less than it is now?

Just totally random non-stacked question to gage how people will react to the coming future.

(btw the sky prob wont fall so dont want to throw any shade at this fantastic moment in your life congratulations its the right decision and awesome!!! )





sky fallin tho :o

[Gatordash]

Congrats Gator!

How would you feel, out of curiosity, if after the fed hikes the interest rates your home is appraised for 150-250k less than it is now?

Just totally random non-stacked question to gage how people will react to the coming future.

(btw the sky prob wont fall so dont want to throw any shade at this fantastic moment in your life congratulations its the right decision and awesome!!! )


sky fallin tho :o

Thanks bud.

I've been wrestling with buying at the top of the market for like the last year (see my dumb posts in this thread) and it would suck if the house loses a ton of value in the next few years but ultimately I don't plan on moving for a long time so who knows what its gonna be worth in 10 years. You can watch the stock market go up and down everyday but if you're not retiring for another 30 years then who cares I guess.

They let you lock in mortgage rates up to 7 months in advance which is nice, because the real bitch that would drive me bananas is if I'm buying an overpriced home and the mortgage rates go up a ton and by the time the house is done. They are gonna go up but a few months from now won't be too bad.

[Homesteaded]

The market is red hot. Hoping to move and house up to some land and space. Get away form my annoying liberal neighbors. Fuck libs

[Gatordash]

The market is red hot. Hoping to move and house up to some land and space. Get away form my annoying liberal neighbors. Fuck libs

The market is even more red hot in red states. Try living in Vegas/Phoenix area next to California. They are literally buying houses here without even looking at them first. Just taking whatever to get out of CA.

[Homesteaded]

Yeah my state, Minnesota we are red hot. 10+ offers and the offers that take it are generally cash offers with no inspection that waive the appraisal. Complete madness.

[robayon]

Get away form my annoying liberal neighbors. Fuck libsLove thy neighbor as thyself going great I see

[Jibartik]

Down jones collapsing.

Inflation going nuts.

Interest rates getting a hike.

Things are gonna be red hot next year, but not in the same sense as this one.

[Toxigen]

Try buying a house in St Pete, FL.

Literally everything is sold before or on the day of hitting the market, way above asking.

Wanna know why? Because in FL covid doesn't exist.

Hope this helps.

[Jibartik]

if inflation can match the rate of the economic crash the houses will al stay the same price and gator will be on top!

could happen haha

[Gatordash]

if inflation can match the rate of the economic crash the houses will al stay the same price and gator will be on top!

could happen haha

Nah I'm fucked. The only good thing is I get to sell my house at the top of the market too. Makes me feel slightly better.

[Gatordash]

Try buying a house in St Pete, FL.

Literally everything is sold before or on the day of hitting the market, way above asking.

Wanna know why? Because in FL covid doesn't exist.

Hope this helps.

My brother bought a new construction house in Sarasota like 3 months before Covid hit. Very lucky.

[Jibartik]

reddit sucks but this is a great thread of comments about home and rental prices. (https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/srloen/i_am_so_fucking_sick_of_whats_going_on_with_the/)

[hobart]

reddit sucks but this is a great thread of comments about home and rental prices. (https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/srloen/i_am_so_fucking_sick_of_whats_going_on_with_the/)

When Clown_Fart88, Antiwork69, and Colonel_Fart-Face can't make it, you know there's a problem. It's totally not them, it's the system.

[Gatordash]

When Clown_Fart88, Antiwork69, and Colonel_Fart-Face can't make it, you know there's a problem. It's totally not them, it's the system.

Same people were making 'fuck your landlord' posts last year when Biden said they didn't have to pay rent. Squeezed out the small 1 or 2 property owners for corporations who could withstand the income hit and afford the legal fees.

[robayon]

Same people were making 'fuck your landlord' posts last year when Biden said they didn't have to pay rent. Squeezed out the small 1 or 2 property owners for corporations who could withstand the income hit and afford the legal fees.It's predatory by nature, whether its Uncle Bob the landlord or a faceless megacorp

Mao was wrong about a lot of stuff but not this

[Homesteaded]

This issue boils down to what people expect. People expect to work some dipshit job for 30 hours a week and live in a nice two bedroom apartment with pool, gym, security etc.

Work a low skill job part time and you will live in a shit dump. Which is totally fine, what better motivation to get off your ass and apply yourself. Tired of seeing people shit in your alley? Tired if your kid hearing gunshots at night? Work harder and don't buy shit you don't need.

All the whining about costs is bullshit, it boils down to expectations of applied effort.

Clean. Your. Room.

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

[Jibartik]

When Clown_Fart88, Antiwork69, and Colonel_Fart-Face can't make it, you know there's a problem. It's totally not them, it's the system.

Last time they got upset all the Democrats think there was an insurrection.

Yeah the occupy movement is totally bullshit.

Cmon man. This is America.

[Jibartik]

This issue boils down to what people expect. People expect to work some dipshit job for 30 hours a week and live in a nice two bedroom apartment with pool, gym, security etc.

Work a low skill job part time and you will live in a shit dump. Which is totally fine, what better motivation to get off your ass and apply yourself. Tired of seeing people shit in your alley? Tired if your kid hearing gunshots at night? Work harder and don't buy shit you don't need.

All the whining about costs is bullshit, it boils down to expectations of applied effort.

Clean. Your. Room.

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

To be fair you’re describing America between 1950-1980

But oh well, life today is fun and chill!

We’re not on the brink of a Civil War or a world war or a depression or anything.

This is all poopoo_86 just Internet talk.

If the interest rates go up so will the banners of war.

We can’t ask the poor people to make up for all the success the rich people had during the pandemic.

Something is going to give.

[robayon]

Same people were making 'fuck your landlord' posts last year when Biden said they didn't have to pay rent. Squeezed out the small 1 or 2 property owners for corporations who could withstand the income hit and afford the legal fees.

This issue boils down to what people expect. People expect to work some dipshit job for 30 hours a week and live in a nice two bedroom apartment with pool, gym, security etc.

Work a low skill job part time and you will live in a shit dump. Which is totally fine, what better motivation to get off your ass and apply yourself. Tired of seeing people shit in your alley? Tired if your kid hearing gunshots at night? Work harder and don't buy shit you don't need.

All the whining about costs is bullshit, it boils down to expectations of applied effort.

Clean. Your. Room.

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.The most out of touch boomer nonsense I have seen all day, thanks for posting

Just work harder lol. You have never experienced the poverty you are so broadly dismissing and it shows. Poor people having three jobs means they are lazy to Homesteaded, very cool

[Homesteaded]

To be fair you’re describing America between 1950-1980

But oh well, life today is fun and chill!

We’re not on the brink of a Civil War or a world war or a depression or anything.

This is all poopoo_86 just Internet talk.

If the interest rates go up so will the banners of war.

We can’t ask the poor people to make up for all the success the rich people had during the pandemic.

Something is going to give.

What's different now? Poor people who work low wage jobs have always had to sacrifice. No one wants to sacrifice now. You see it all the time, people working low wage jobs often have the best phones, new cloths. They are not sacrificing because they have come to expect more than they deserve based on effort. This hasn't changed, what has changed is morals are from society. We're all taught that everything is okay and all ways of life are equally respectable. None of this is true.

[robayon]

What's different now? Poor people who work low wage jobs have always had to sacrifice. No one wants to sacrifice now. You see it all the time, people working low wage jobs often have the best phones, new cloths. They are not sacrificing because they have come to expect more than they deserve based on effort. This hasn't changed, what has changed is morals are from society. We're all taught that everything is okay and all ways of life are equally respectable. None of this is true.The unbearable arrogance of the modern conservative, Valentine's Day, 14th February 2022 - Post on Serious Thinking Elf Forum

[Homesteaded]

The most out of touch boomer nonsense I have seen all day, thanks for posting

Just work harder lol. You have never experienced the poverty you are so broadly dismissing and it shows. Poor people having three jobs means they are lazy to Homesteaded, very cool

Working three jobs 15 hours a week isn't somehow more work. It just shows you're dumb. You are not a viable candidate for jobs that pay well. You are being taken advantage of by your employers. They can do this because you have setup your life to have no leverage. Maybe you have three kids you have to support. My heart goes out to those folks but they made choices and they need to deal with them. Whining that you can't work 10 hours at Target, 15 hours at Applebees and drive doordash on the weekends to support a family of 5 on one income isn't a real gripe.

Income has very little to do with how financially successful you are. You can be a low earner and be wealthy. Figure that out and the rest falls in place. You don't need all the shit you have.

[Homesteaded]

The unbearable arrogance of the modern conservative, Valentine's Day, 14th February 2022 - Post on Serious Thinking Elf Forum

You folks love to pretend that conservatives are not the empathetic party that we are. Conservatives routinely give more to charity and volunteer more of their time.

My three siblings all are in various states of floundering. They are in this state because they didn't take school seriously and partied in their youth well beyond what is normal. My sisters each had a child out of wedlock with fathers who are not in the picture. They have set themselves up for a hard road back to stability. I'm very aware of the plight of the low-income earners. From where I sit it appears to be almost entirely self inflicted.

[Reiwa]

Totalitarianism must be so easy.

You give monke(s) various slips of paper and they will brutalize their fellows for you. Because it means they're better. What a system!

[Jibartik]

The American dream is dead.

Clean your room all you want.

Happy bloody valentines day.

[Homesteaded]

The American dream is dead.

Clean your room all you want.

The American dream can never die because it is the fundamental human dream. The American government has polluted this system. Time to rebuild.

[Jibartik]

Ok fair enough, the dream is alive.

The reality is that it's a dream.

Im well off, and incredibly unhappy because when I look outside my window I see dogshit everywhere.

When I go outside of my window I get dogshit on me.

The "American" dream is dead. Because America is dead.

If I dont just keep all my money in the bank and never retire, then my kids will be poor and shitty like the rest of the country.

A life of cleaning my room, has gotten me the promise that if I die cleaning my room then maybe my kids might not have to when homeownership is a luxury 20 years from now.

The treadmill is bullshit and just a treadmill.

I cant even travel the world anymore for my retirement because of the rhetoric in this country has made people actually want cause death to americans instead of just shout it.

Not only do you make no money in this country, have no prospects, but people think you're a dickhead and hate you too now. Everythign that made america a great place, is gone.

[robayon]

Working three jobs 15 hours a week isn't somehow more work. It just shows you're dumb. You are not a viable candidate for jobs that pay well. You are being taken advantage of by your employers. They can do this because you have setup your life to have no leverage. Maybe you have three kids you have to support. My heart goes out to those folks but they made choices and they need to deal with them. Whining that you can't work 10 hours at Target, 15 hours at Applebees and drive doordash on the weekends to support a family of 5 on one income isn't a real gripe.

Income has very little to do with how financially successful you are. You can be a low earner and be wealthy. Figure that out and the rest falls in place. You don't need all the shit you have.I know at least two dozen people who work two full time jobs and do doordash shit in the margins, exceptionally arrogant poster

Like half of then are single parents, too

I realize conservatives are constantly searching for a justification for being selfish pricks, but it doesn't exist so you can stop with all the boomer dear abby garbage

[robayon]

From where I sit it appears to be almost entirely self inflicted.You sit on a throne of dirt and lies, but looking past that, sure some of it may be but that is no reason to pull up the ladder behind you after having half assedly climbed it yourself

[Gustoo]

Totalitarianism must be so easy.

You give monke(s) various slips of paper and they will brutalize their fellows for you. Because it means they're better. What a system!

Ya its p easy

[Reiwa]

Ya its p easy

It is right and proper that others should be pressed face down in the gutter because I'm better at math problems than them.

[Gustoo]

The only scarce resource is human love and empathy. We continue to convince ourselves and to convince others that it is OK for us to be vile, to have more than we need and still withhold from the people that aren't able to "succeed" in the inhuman meat grinder we call present day civilization.

The sci fi show LEXX had civilization figured out lol I thought it was a good gag at the time but yep.

[Jibartik]

Funny that for some reason when we turned against Christianity in this country and became secular.

That stuff started happening.

Gosh I wonder what they mean when they said capitalism cannot work without Christian values?

OH YEA!!

Democrat policy.

[Reiwa]

Funny that for some reason when we turned against Christianity in this country and became secular.

That stuff started happening.

Gosh I wonder what they mean when they said capitalism cannot work without Christian values?

OH YEA!!

Democrat policy.

Religious Dems are mostly Catholic so this rhetoric is historically consistent. 👍

[robayon]

Funny that for some reason when we turned against Christianity in this country and became secular.

That stuff started happening.

Gosh I wonder what they mean when they said capitalism cannot work without Christian values?

OH YEA!!

Democrat policy.They had it backwards, capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with Christian values

[Gustoo]

What I have observed is that our present morality is that Wealth = righteousness.

Watched david letterman interview kim kardashian talking about how great she is and I thought I was in some kinda nightmare twilight zone episode.

Walk into a store wearing button up shirt and get treated like a special customer and expert shopper. Walk into same store wearing t shirt and sneakers and get treated like a burgler.

Walk into the same store black and get treated like a burgler unless very obviously rich and then you get the special expert shopper treatment again.

Have a complaint when you're poor, your complaint is because you're dumb and made bad choices so therefore invalid.

Have a complaint when you're rich, your complaint is dumb because you're a hypocrite. (and honestly you probably are out of touch with reality but hey maybe not).

Scary times pals

[Jibartik]

I really hate how kids fuck that up robayon.

I know thats what the 1990s told you but thats just an edgelord take.

Try explaining to me how fearing damnation, and donating your money, makes people inherently evil?

Then try to explain to me why every single horrible thing that has happened to Americans in this country was at the hands of crippling economic hardships put on them by a secularist.

Catholics are agents of satan so please wake up reiewa. Im talking about Christianity, not a pagan corporation.

WAKE UP PEOPLE

god is the only thing that stops people from hurting each other. It's not what stops ME... but it's what stops the fat guy who owns you.

[Gustoo]

They had it backwards, capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with Christian values

Laws and systems do not dictate values. The values themselves need to be actually held and held truly for the individuals claiming to have them to not torture the shit out of eachother and leave eachother for dead.

When you're a walking husk of a gutted soulless legalist embarrassment of a religion that makes God look like trash you can expert bad times.

That Christianity can't glue any society together, and no genius concoction of a government system is capable of neutralizing what is our greatest challenge, our own evil.

There is a reason Jesus didn't lay out a recipe for governing humans in a form of a government structure etc. He gave the actual only correct answer which is to love your neighbor as yourself, and to love God. All systems fail when we don't love eachother. Sorry for the bad news, you can't blame anything except each and every one of eachother and the only way to fix it is not to put eachother in more prisons but to love.

[Jibartik]

Morality is not enough to stop a moral person hiding while a classroom full of children are shot when they could have done something to stop it.

Heaven would. Heaven would encourage him to help those children.

Secularism is satanism and everything that hurts you is a result of our abandonment of god. Not making your bed.

[Reiwa]

Catholics are agents of satan so please wake up reiewa. Im talking about Christianity, not a pagan corporation.

Put on ur robe and grand wizard hat.

[robayon]

Laws and systems do not dictate values. The values themselves need to be actually held and held truly for the individuals claiming to have them to not torture the shit out of eachother and leave eachother for dead.

When you're a walking husk of a gutted soulless legalist embarrassment of a religion that makes God look like trash you can expert bad times.The problem with this take is that it overlooks the good works wrought in many places by the faithful of any particular religion. Christianity in general might be the most glaring example of a corrupted faith system, but that is partly because it was used to enable some of history's bloodiest monsters via European and American colonialism and development.

There are plenty of exceptions, though, at least in individual levels

I've said this before but I'd be fine with the type of capitalism Adam Smith laid out, but that isn't what we have now

[BlackBellamy]

I only read the first page, about the housing prices. I'm here on page 62 and now I understand that this is all the fault of secularism.

[Jibartik]

explain what you mean when you say 'Christianity in general might be the most glaring example of a corrupted faith system' because that just sounds like a hot take from someone who listens to too much TOOL.

[Homesteaded]

You sit on a throne of dirt and lies, but looking past that, sure some of it may be but that is no reason to pull up the ladder behind you after having half assedly climbed it yourself

Your analogy fails because in the end we all have our own ladders to climb the wall. My ladder simply won't help you. You need to use your own ladder. Because we're not climbing the same wall. My ladder won't work. Your ladder won't work for me.

Build, use and enforce your own ladder. Next question.

[Reiwa]

I only read the first page, about the housing prices. I'm here on page 62 and now I understand that this is all the fault of secularism.

Which is the result of the Lutherist heresy. /Nods

[robayon]

Your analogy fails because in the end we all have our own ladders to climb the wall. My ladder simply won't help you. You need to use your own ladder. Because we're not climbing the same wall. My ladder won't work. Your ladder won't work for me.

Build, use and enforce your own ladder. Next question.Oh no, my analogy! Anyways, you clearly hate the poor and think they are all so stupid that they haven't followed your 1958 level advice. Next question!

[Jibartik]

I only read the first page, about the housing prices. I'm here on page 62 and now I understand that this is all the fault of secularism.

I think it's really important that stupid kids that were raised by lead eating boomers, realize that this country was founded when people held deeply serious Christian values. Values that they held far more dearly than the constitution they wrote based off those values, thinking that those values would remain and not understanding that without religion for hundreds of years people turn into psycopaths.

And now those values are all but forgotten. I know that because adults today grew up killing small animals in suburbs and painting their fingernails black in rebellion of a over protective extremely conservative generation before them.

But we need to admit that our generation embraced dumbness and now it's come to collect. Married with children was a funny show because it was a picture of america.

Now budd and kelly are in the white house.

People spout all this nonsense about morality, but morality only exists when you're comfortable.

[Homesteaded]

Oh no, my analogy! Anyways, you clearly hate the poor and think they are all so stupid that they haven't followed your 1958 level advice. Next question!

You're not good at this.

The rules haven't changed, expectations have. The same rules that worked in 1958 will work today, that's the beauty of a good set of rules. You know like Christianity, ideas that have survived long spans of time tend to hold value.

[robayon]

You're not good at this.

The rules haven't changed, expectations have. The same rules that worked in 1958 will work today, that's the beauty of a good set of rules. You know like Christianity, ideas that have survived long spans of time tend to hold value.Just lying and using religion to veil my hatred for my fellow humans on the elf forum? You're right, I am terrible at that

1958 was just as awful and exploitative as the modern era, it's just a matter of access to more information

[hobart]

The most out of touch boomer nonsense I have seen all day, thanks for posting

Shitting on boomers is like making fun of a handsome multimillionaire with a huge penis. They're better than you. Even old gen-x farts like me look like John Wayne or Gary Cooper next to today's crybabys.

Free service. If you can't afford a home, hit me up. I'll show you why/where you done fucked up.

[Homesteaded]

Free service. If you can't afford a home, hit me up. I'll show you why/where you done fucked up.

I'll offer up my time for this as well. Here to help elves.

[Reiwa]

Sign up here to be personally heckled by a smuggo

[robayon]

Shitting on boomers is like making fun of a handsome multimillionaire with a huge penis. They're better than you. Even old gen-x farts like me look like John Wayne or Gary Cooper next to today's crybabys.

Free service. If you can't afford a home, hit me up. I'll show you why/where you done fucked up.I have a house, but I am sure that your average reactionary conservative would prefer to think of your average commie as unemployed or living in mom's basement because it makes their bad arguments and general ignorance go down smoother

[Jibartik]

Shitting on boomers is like making fun of a handsome multimillionaire with a huge penis.

Sure, but it's still frustrating to find out that purchases that take up 50-80% of a good salary only took up about 20-30% of a low end salary.

The dollar just does not go as far as it used to.

There are a lot of reasons, Im not blaming anyone for this, but the simple fact makes life just a little bit frustrating for people, while we live in a time peroid where it simply shouldn't be makes them angry.

We should not be going through this economic hardship, we've been letting boomers redline, while we snort whitelines.. for too long. Its both of our faults, but that doesnt change that it's a fuse to a stick of dinamite.

[Jibartik]

I guess I can conceed were all more shrude and smart now, and so competition is so rampant that life is just harder now.

But like, to what end is life actaully better as a result? Im not sure.. I guess it is for some.

[Jibartik]

This is the next stage of the appocalypse: Buy now pay later apps

https://www.cnbc.com/select/best-buy-now-pay-later-apps/

Imagine downloading an app, and it functions like a credit card?

lol you dont have to imagine anymore!

These apps allow customers to split purchases like a cup of coffee, or a mcdonalds meal, into 3 to 4 smaller payments spread out over months...

lol were fucking dead meat

[hobart]

Sure, but it's still frustrating to find out that purchases that take up 50-80% of a good salary only took up about 20-30% of a low end salary

This hasn't been true since the late 60s. Only the oldest of Boomers had this advantage. And while housing is a greater % of your income now, the annual rates of return have also skyrocketed.

Poor career choices, choosing to start out in cities with a high cost of living, poor spending/savings habits. That's what it comes down to.

[robayon]

Poor career choices, choosing to start out in cities with a high cost of living, poor spending/savings habits. That's what it comes down to.Yes, we already know discussion of actually being poor is purely hypothetical to you and that all of your information on it comes only from reactionary "middle class" rags

Please stop beating the horse, it is very dead

[unsunghero]

Poor career choices, choosing to start out in cities with a high cost of living, poor spending/savings habits. That's what it comes down to.

I don’t like investment firms mass-buying up houses’ impact on housing prices, but I also agree with what’s stated here. Which is weird, because I wouldn’t agree with this guy on a lot of other things

Finish high school, don’t have a child before financially able, get an entry level job, do the research on a good choice of education or tradeschool, calculate when you can have a loan for it paid back by….and barring some unfortunate disaster that path should work

I don’t think I need to hear how a poor person who became middle class did it because it shouldn’t be all that different, but if it is different, sure I’d be down to hear it. I wouldn’t want to get advice on how to become middle class by someone who has remained poor all their life either

[Jibartik]

Poor career choices, choosing to start out in cities with a high cost of living, poor spending/savings habits. That's what it comes down to.

Do you think those people care you think they made bad life decisions when theyre setting your house on fire because they outnumber you 10,000 to 1 and the promise of prosperity is gone?

Poor spending/savings habbits are not a result of an indidivudals decision. People didnt just become this way. They were raised this way. Leadership tells them to be this way. Education, entertainment, the media, friends, and family all are in on the deception.

Revenge of the sith and all that.

[Reiwa]

Revenge of the sixth and all that.

Good title for the next insurrection. :p

[Jibartik]

Haha yes I wish that would stick! Guess we have to get involved to spread the idea.

[unsunghero]

Poor spending/savings habbits are not a result of an indidivudals decision. People didnt just become this way. They were raised this way. Leadership tells them to be this way. Education, entertainment, the media, friends, and family all are in on the deception.

Revenge of the sith and all that.

Good points, personally I think it’s both. It’s obviously ultimately their choice, but they are going to be influenced by what their parents told them, what their peers told them, the school, the media the take in, etc. Those are all definitely factors. But ultimately it’s their choice, and I would hope at least school would be telling kids the right kinds of choices to make for their future, if not their parents

[Jibartik]

I refuse to live in a society where working 9-5 and raising a family in a home you own is considered a failure.

We cant be a society made up of eutrapanuers.

That'd be like brave new world or some shit.

or tiktok... :(

[robayon]

Poor spending/savings habbits are not a result of an indidivudals decision. People ddidn'tjust become this way. They were raised this way. Leadership tells them to be this way. Education, entertainment, the media, friends, and family all are in on the deception.I love this point. It is also why I don't stay mad at conservatives, talk to people who are apparently on the road to fascism or some twisted monarchist crap (many conservatives, ancaps, right wing libertarians), talk to people who may have similar social beliefs to me but do not seem to perceive the back-handed way they refer to groups of the disadvantaged (many liberals), and consistently roll in the dirt with my fellow piggies

We're all victims in some way of the degradation taking place all around us, we just don't always engage the correct villains

[robayon]

I refuse to live in a society where working 9-5 and raising a family in a home you own is considered a failure.

We cant be a society made up of eutrapanuers.

That'd be like brave new world or some shit.

or tiktok... :(I'd like to live in a society where the home and job are not necessary to obtaining the family

Note: this does not mean nobody does any work, that is absurd, but less make-work nonsense to get your boss the better model of BMW

[Jibartik]

I'd like to live in a society where the home and job are not necessary to obtaining the family

the closest you can get to that and living in any type of society is Amish or the fundamentalist church of latter-day saints, but the Amish work twice as hard and the FCLS you have to work as a little cobra soldier so that one doesn't really count.

I guess the thing is nothing is free, so how can we live in a society like that, unless we abolish progressive ideas and go back to the tribe and share food?

The plot to a movie with Owen Wilson offered this future, basically an elon musk character mined asteroids, which brought so much money to earth that he created a basic income where everyone could live like they were wealthy and all they do is play video games and start becoming cannibals' or something.

[Gustoo]

The problem with this take is that it overlooks the good works wrought in many places by the faithful of any particular religion. Christianity in general might be the most glaring example of a corrupted faith system, but that is partly because it was used to enable some of history's bloodiest monsters via European and American colonialism and development.

There are plenty of exceptions, though, at least in individual levels

I've said this before but I'd be fine with the type of capitalism Adam Smith laid out, but that isn't what we have now

I really like milton friedmans "capitalism and freedom"

It's not the religion, its the people.
It's not the government, its the people governing.
It's not the money, its the people corrupted by it.

None of the tools are our disposal can stand up to our crafty and subtle ways at making them tools for evil.

[robayon]

I really like milton friedmans "capitalism and freedom"

It's not the religion, its the people.
It's not the government, its the people governing.
It's not the money, its the people corrupted by it.

None of the tools are our disposal can stand up to our crafty and subtle ways at making them tools for evil.Ew. No. No thanks. If I were you I would not admit to that or tell anyone in meatspace or online about it, ever.

[Gustoo]

Lol say that again after you’ve read it. It’s sound.

Bad news is today we’ve got the government not doing their job so the end result of what we have for “capitalism” is only better than command and control corrupt economies in that we still pretend to believe in small businesses, while doing everything to make them impossible to operate successfully.

[robayon]

What are the things that are being done (or not done) that make so-called small businesses unable to operate successfully?

[Jibartik]

https://i.imgur.com/8GuocUo.jpg

[nostalgiaquest]

I refuse to live in a society where working 9-5 and raising a family in a home you own is considered a failure.
(

Sounds like you'd like it in socialist Europe ;)

[Jibartik]

I get what your saying but I think you're thinking of the shire. Meaning a utopian fantasy. Reality over there is just as bleak as it is here.

[nostalgiaquest]

Yeah there's some truth to that. We're considering buy a house here in the Netherlands, and the market is fuckin crazy. Listed for 500, sells for 750 type shit.

But if you're looking to be a proud boring family man, Netherlands is the place for you. It's so wholesome here it makes me sick lol. Everyone thinks of crazy Amsterdam, but this place is really just a series of small villages. Pretty shire-like really, minus the architecture and with much shittier weather.

[BlackBellamy]

You must really be impressed with our climate change efforts to be investing in real estate where one third of the country is below sea level.

[nostalgiaquest]

This thought has crossed our minds. Which is why i use the word "considering" lol. I also don't know if I can settle in a country that has no mountains. The flatness here is so unnerving.

[Gustoo]

What are the things that are being done (or not done) that make so-called small businesses unable to operate successfully?

Have you ever tried to open one? Have you ever tried to pay taxes for one, have you ever tried to pay for medical care for employees or yourself while operating your own business? Have you ever tried to acquire a business license? Have you ever tried to install a commercial kitchen in a building, or get "occupancy" in said building for one of many other different reasons? Have you ever tried to get liability insurance for a business?

I'm not talking about so-called small business I am talking about actually small business started by people who actually need a business to make money, not people coming to the table with a half a million dollars from their uncle to blow getting the business up and running.

If you have 500,000 dollars you can start most businesses no problem.

Sorry for answering indirectly. The best way to understand the difficulty is to imagine a business you would like to operate or just theoretically think might be OK and work through the steps and challenges some of which I've listed above and see if it makes sense to start that business anymore or if you're maybe better off taking a job at starbucks.

[robayon]

Yes, I was self employed for years. I am not now. I did not have employees and I paid for my own health insurance. I had a million bucks in liability insurance, but this was also pre-2008 crash so that was a different economy. The 2008 crash killed it pretty dead, I made it through 2010 before I ran out of money and threw in the towel.

I sometimes think of doing it again now that I am more mature, but I got pretty tired of the dog bites and resulting infections, stitches, and medical costs are just too insane these days compared to pre-2008.

[Toxigen]

if you dont own multiple properties in your 30s its time to unplug from everquest

[Jibartik]

if you dont own multiple properties in your 30s its time to unplug from everquest

[Reiwa]

inheritors are a trip, man :o

[unsunghero]

if you dont own multiple properties in your 30s its time to unplug from everquest

Eh, if I had enough money to put a down payment on a second house I think I’d rather invest in other stuff

I’d have to find renters willing to pay more than the mortgage, which would be hard considering interest rates have gone up and the bank’s second loan would never be as good of a rate as my first (I wouldn’t qualify lol, but this is a hypothetical). So I would have to find a sucker willing to overpay in rent, just to make enough profits to fix the stuff they inevitably break living there. And of course I’d have to keep an eye on it to make sure they aren’t thrashing the place

A lot of work for an investment. If I had like $50k extra, I could think of other stuff to invest in with that I think

[robayon]

Do not be a landlord, all landlords go to hell

[Jibartik]

From where I stand, the messaging was to go to school. Get a respectable job at a big company. Have a great life. Build a family. Retire.

But now it's becoming more and more clear that the messaging is, no that's for baboons, buy property, be your own boss.

I feel like what Ive seen is the people getting jerked around and IMO it makes me want to get real mad so Im always surprised nobody else cares.

I mean the college loans folks are still screaming at the clouds, they were all promised this message. Surely they are ready to flip the system upside down? I dont get it.

[robayon]

What I don't get is the folks who paid off their loans but oppose forgiving those loans for others. Very bucket of crabs mentality. "I had polio, and now there's a free vaccine!? Those kids should suffer like I did!"

Not that any president is gonna forgive the heaps of debt, so it's all hypothetical. Biden can't even come up with free community college, much less x out oodles of meaningless debt

[unsunghero]

What I don't get is the folks who paid off their loans but oppose forgiving those loans for others. Very bucket of crabs mentality. "I had polio, and now there's a free vaccine!? Those kids should suffer like I did!"

Not that any president is gonna forgive the heaps of debt, so it's all hypothetical. Biden can't even come up with free community college, much less x out oodles of meaningless debt

It just feels like an invalidation of work. For example the rank 14 grind in WoW was one of the worst grind’s possible in MMA history, usually requiring 16+ hours/day playing for ~5 months

Then eventually afterward, blizz made the rank 14 gear buyable with honor points as currency. It was outdated by then so not best in slot, but once everyone could buy it, the people who had put on all those hours felt their work kinda invalidated

That’s kinda a bad example bc it was a good deal of time later, it would be worse if it happened like the next week after they got it when it was still best in slot

It would be seen as invalidating to those who put on the work and unfair to the next generation who was going to sign up for college next year, unless it was a re-occurring thing every year and then costs just went way the heck up. And since money is infinite in this scenario why not just give it to everyone, every year, including those that already paid theirs

[robayon]

I mean, if the compromise means I get a check I wouldn't be opposed to that, but my college debt was only like 17k total

I get why they might be miffed I suppose I just think education is a good use of tax dollars, and not a $100m F-35 that sinks into the sea

As long as we are still using currency, anyways, but the form of utopia without it is a long way off, if our species even makes it long enough

[unsunghero]

The other issue if it is passed by this administration is a potential conflict of interest

If we are going to assume that there are more older republicans than younger, then it is more likely that older people who have finished college and paid their loans are Republican. Plus people without college degrees have a higher % of republicans

So we have a Democrat-ran administration say we are giving free money to a particular age subset of a particular form of higher education, one that happens to have a Democrat majority of utilizers. And older higher educated people and trade-school or non-higher educated people can go F themselves

It sorta sounds like a favor returned. Thanks for voting me into office, thanks college staff for having a Democrat majority, we’re going to incentivize as many people as we can to buy your service and not your competitors (trade schools, low skill jobs)

[robayon]

Well, maybe, but it isn't gonna happen with Biden anyways and I doubt any Republican would take it up for much the same reasons you outlined - it wouldn't benefit their own base as much, and elected officials of both parties are essentially owned by whatever segment of the banks actually holds those debts anyways.

Basically because of bribery/campaign finance, wanting to get re-elected over and over....

It seems to me that there are certain things, like education and healthcare, which should not be governed by capitalist principles but that isn't what we have, and now there's all these sunk costs involved, what a total mess

[unsunghero]

Well, maybe, but it isn't gonna happen with Biden anyways and I doubt any Republican would take it up for much the same reasons you outlined - it wouldn't benefit their own base as much, and elected officials of both parties are essentially owned by whatever segment of the banks actually holds those debts anyways.

Basically because of bribery/campaign finance, wanting to get re-elected over and over....

It seems to me that there are certain things, like education and healthcare, which should not be governed by capitalist principles but that isn't what we have, and now there's all these sunk costs involved, what a total mess

I always wondered about the government using the money instead to form their own higher education, like public higher education, but any kind, including tradeskills or even just teaching how to work a low skill job (like a mini-associates)

Then have it undercut the university prices, since in my opinion university degree costs are kinda ridiculous. This would force competition and universities having motivation to try to lower their costs for higher education. Because the college degree system doesn’t really seem all that streamlined either. I dunno, I’m not an expert in degrees, but it seems there is a decent amount of filler stuff

Anyway, I had other ideas but forgot them already

[robayon]

Think of how much they pushed back on Obamacare, and the regulatory and bureaucratic mess that half-assed approach created

I would support a federal college, but it will definitely be called socialist and opposed by all the usual corrupt villains in both parties

[Jibartik]

hard to federalize things when your population is 330 million

obamacare was designed to fail though, our country and economy could have never supported it.

A different economy could, but ours could not.

[Reiwa]

It just feels like an invalidation of work. For example the rank 14 grind in WoW was one of the worst grind’s possible in MMA history, usually requiring 16+ hours/day playing for ~5 months

Then eventually afterward, blizz made the rank 14 gear buyable with honor points as currency. It was outdated by then so not best in slot, but once everyone could buy it, the people who had put on all those hours felt their work kinda invalidated

That’s kinda a bad example bc it was a good deal of time later, it would be worse if it happened like the next week after they got it when it was still best in slot

It would be seen as invalidating to those who put on the work and unfair to the next generation who was going to sign up for college next year, unless it was a re-occurring thing every year and then costs just went way the heck up. And since money is infinite in this scenario why not just give it to everyone, every year, including those that already paid theirs

I always wanted this set but knew I would never get it since I suck at pvp. No big deal.

https://i.imgur.com/gtvFIsF.jpg

[Jibartik]

damn that looks dope

id like a emu server that is just the oldschool wow arenas with the pvp gear progression added to it anyone got that?

[unsunghero]

I always wanted this set but knew I would never get it since I suck at pvp. No big deal.

https://i.imgur.com/gtvFIsF.jpg

Yeah pretty sweet

I got the r14 set and while it was cool (one of the only particle effects on the shoulders at the time), I didn’t like the look on troll as much. When my char would jump (which was always, I was a jumping spaz), the shoulder spikes would go into the side’s of my char’s head….

[Gatordash]

Las Vegas Housing Market Update: Still sucks.

17087

[Jibartik]

Lmao say hello to riding on the tops of trains, America.

[unsunghero]

Had a plumber come out to fix spare bath toilet and told me there’s dirt in the line, which means a pipe break, possibly. Have to have them come back out and do a fancy $370 scope to know exactly what is going on

Dad told me from there most likely the “fix” is going to be tearing up my carpet, Jack hammering my tile and the concrete foundation under it, digging up and re-laying the pipe, and putting concrete back down and leaving the re-tiling and re-carpeting to me. Aka tens of thousands of dollars. And not covered by homeowner insurance

If I can’t finance this, I’m fucked. But pretty sure they’ll let me. Yay home ownership

[Jibartik]

Yo

STOP what you are doing now

there is like 250$ a year insurance you can get to fix internal problems in your house like that, id look into it.

Try to avoid dealing with the leak for 1 month, then ask them to come fix it.

it might be too late if you already had someone come look at it, but the plumber/insurance conspiracy is not as strong as the hospital/insurance one, so its likely the insurance wont know that you already had a plumber look at it.

[eisley]

Yeah pretty sweet

I got the r14 set and while it was cool (one of the only particle effects on the shoulders at the time), I didn’t like the look on troll as much. When my char would jump (which was always, I was a jumping spaz), the shoulder spikes would go into the side’s of my char’s head….

r14 was pretty easy to get if your server organized it. You just had to be #1 on server honor, so we'd take turns getting highest honor. I only went to 13 since I was a priest and only cared about the mount, but our guild probably got 20+ r14s.

It sucked hitting honor cap for the week though and having to play alts.

[unsunghero]

r14 was pretty easy to get if your server organized it. You just had to be #1 on server honor, so we'd take turns getting highest honor. I only went to 13 since I was a priest and only cared about the mount, but our guild probably got 20+ r14s.

It sucked hitting honor cap for the week though and having to play alts.

Yes we had it arranged as well, the top 8ish spots were pre-arranged. Our server was about 6000+ people and you had to be in the top 8 still (really top 4 to make progress in r13), so for me that was about 800,000 to 1,000,000,000 honor per week, even with pre-arranged caps

We had a few “rogues” who weren’t going along with the arrangement and had multiple people playing on their accounts trying to compete. Some we got banned by reporting for account sharing

Ultimately, what really helped was running in an undefeated WSG team that won every match in 8 minutes all day. But even then I had to play about 8 or so hours per day for 5-6 days of the week. We also stayed undefeated and almost completely uncapped when x-realm BG’s came out (only capped on 1 time even in arranged games with other server’s A teams). I got r14 before x-realm BG’s though

[unsunghero]

Yo

STOP what you are doing now

there is like 250$ a year insurance you can get to fix internal problems in your house like that, id look into it.

Try to avoid dealing with the leak for 1 month, then ask them to come fix it.

it might be too late if you already had someone come look at it, but the plumber/insurance conspiracy is not as strong as the hospital/insurance one, so its likely the insurance wont know that you already had a plumber look at it.

Interesting, I’ll have to look into it, do u know the name??

[Jibartik]

Interesting, I’ll have to look into it, do u know the name??

https://www.homeserve.com/en-us/

I think this is national.

You're looking for emergency home repair plans.

[Homesteaded]

https://www.homeserve.com/en-us/

I think this is national.

You're looking for emergency home repair plans.

I don’t trust a man who’s hips are wider than his shoulders.

[mcoy]

It may not be necessary to replace the pipe - they can reline the pipe without tearing everything apart and that should be significantly cheaper:

VWTkPcW442M

-Mcoy

[mcoy]

https://www.homeserve.com/en-us/

I think this is national.

You're looking for emergency home repair plans.

Consumer Reports actually conducted a review of HomeServe USA and similar emergency repair service plans and concluded that most consumers should avoid these types of paid plans. (https://www.reviewopedia.com/homeserve-usa-reviews)

-Mcoy

[Jibartik]

Saved me moneies.

I pay 250 a year, and had 2 leaks fixed by ripping down the wall and replacing the pipes, all I had to pay for was the drywall repair after.

the guy they sent tried to convince me to pay him extra to fix stuff while he was there, so Im sure that's where the consumer reports stuff comes from because I was like, naw, that's the oldest trick in the book.

[Homesteaded]

Consumer Reports actually conducted a review of HomeServe USA and similar emergency repair service plans and concluded that most consumers should avoid these types of paid plans. (https://www.reviewopedia.com/homeserve-usa-reviews)

-Mcoy

Fact checkers.

Except most doing the fact checking can’t even admit that there are men and women and that they are different.

[Jibartik]

reuters.com/business/us-house-prices-rise-another-10-this-year-2022
(reuters.com/business/us-house-prices-rise-another-10-this-year-2022-03-02/?utm_source=reddit.com)
The money train wont ever stop!

[starkind]

It may not be necessary to replace the pipe - they can reline the pipe without tearing everything apart and that should be significantly cheaper:

VWTkPcW442M

-Mcoy


it's not worlllld ending

Proceed @ ur own risk tho

https://i.imgur.com/hPvEmHw.png

[azxten]

I built a house myself. There is no shortage of houses, people are just generally stupid now. Almost no one even owns a house they just have mortgages. Of course the price of houses are going up if you're paying a % interest on a loan to the most greedy corrupt people in the world to buy one. They'll do everything they can to see the average house cost $10 million and give you a bargain on a low rate .1% interest mortgage. What a steal! Don't wait prices are only going up!

Total cost for me to buy land and build a decent house was $200k and it's worth $1 million now. That included paying contractors to do some of the work but mostly I did everything myself. I could just build houses full time and make a great living. I did this on the side while working full time.

It's all about capital. Coming up with the $200k to build the house without a loan is the hard part and I guess so is not being retarded and messing it up for a lot of people. I spent over a year just finding land. Every step of the way there is a way to fuck yourself if you don't take your time and think.

No one has capital they just have debt. No one owns a house. It's so rare to own a house people even pretend it's bad financial sense to own a house when you could take out a great mortgage and invest your money in the stock market (LOL) instead.

[Homesteaded]

Moving into the new house in three weeks. Strange phase being in a neighborhood that you're sort of rejecting by moving. Our kids are really excited to get some space to explore. Hoping to plant some trees and create more privacy. Going to have to do some research into what type of trees to plant.

[Jibartik]

All of this is a scam. Civil war coming.

[Homesteaded]

All of this is a scam. Civil war coming.

Can I get three weeks to move into the new house before that?

[Reiwa]

Manufacared home, homie?

[Jibartik]

Can I get three weeks to move into the new house before that?

We got as long as it takes for them to try to jail trump.

[Bardp1999]

My house has increased in value over $100k+ in 1 year. That's not monopoly money or crypto, talking USD$ suckahs

[starkind]

https://i.imgur.com/koHHjGP.gif

[Gustoo]

Those real estate value gains are largely a result of inflation.

[Topgunben]

I built a house myself. There is no shortage of houses, people are just generally stupid now. Almost no one even owns a house they just have mortgages. Of course the price of houses are going up if you're paying a % interest on a loan to the most greedy corrupt people in the world to buy one. They'll do everything they can to see the average house cost $10 million and give you a bargain on a low rate .1% interest mortgage. What a steal! Don't wait prices are only going up!

Total cost for me to buy land and build a decent house was $200k and it's worth $1 million now. That included paying contractors to do some of the work but mostly I did everything myself. I could just build houses full time and make a great living. I did this on the side while working full time.

It's all about capital. Coming up with the $200k to build the house without a loan is the hard part and I guess so is not being retarded and messing it up for a lot of people. I spent over a year just finding land. Every step of the way there is a way to fuck yourself if you don't take your time and think.

No one has capital they just have debt. No one owns a house. It's so rare to own a house people even pretend it's bad financial sense to own a house when you could take out a great mortgage and invest your money in the stock market (LOL) instead.

I built my own home in Washington and did save tremendous amount of money. Was able to sell it for about double what I put into it within just 2.5 years.

With that said, you can not build a house cheaply right now, even if you do the work yourself. I am extremely well versed in construction costs, its basically all I do all day long for a very large home builder. 4x8 OSB is nearly 60 dollars a sheet. LVLs and LSLs are also outrageously expensive, along with any type of sheet metal, Vinyl material and decking. For perspecitve, when I built my house in WA back in 2016, 4x8 OSB was 5 bucks a sheet. At one point it spiked to $12 a sheet and everyone was losing their mind, now its 5 times the high that it was back then.

There is a housing shortage right now, as many people living in urban areas like NYC, Seattle, Portland, LA, etc etc are moving to more suburban and less crowded areas. Conservative states like Texas, Idaho and Utah are bursting at the seams with all the new people coming in, lot costs are skyrocketing because there is so little product on the market. The area I moved to has about 12 days of inventory.

Why are things so out of control right now? I would place the blame squarely on politicians shoulders that were in favor of a Covid shut down. This basically destroyed our economy, mills were shut down, production stopped for many many types of building materials. The 2nd part is, we have become so ridiculous with this idea of central planning when it comes to land use. Local governments have made it so difficult, if not impossible for developments to happen organically. I am currently involved in a land subdivision in WA state that is going on its 6th year of preconstruction entitlements and permitting. Its all complete bullshit, and a way for local governments to take control when it is absolutley screwing people over.

Its complete and utter bullshit. Anyone that is for this type of planning can go screw themselves. You are literally bankrupting the American people with your bullshit planning.

[Jibartik]

85% of the homes in the united states are own by investment groups.

That's the problem :o

The top 10% of Americans made more wealth during the pandemic than the bottom 90% 4 times over.

Houses are expensive because 10% of americans (let alone foreign investment which makes up 15% of that 85%) can offer 4x the asking price and only 20% of america buys homes to live in them.

[starkind]

My caregiver wants to give me their house. I told them under absolutely any condition not to.

Reasons:
*it will get taken from me
*i cannot and therefore will not care for it

This is happening a lot.

The more corporations gain control and the more suffering trauma hardship hate and discord that can be sewn among eachother the easier it will be for globalist firms to gain even stronger dominions.

I want to be clear, that I am not complaining about my personal circumstances, I do not deserve property, or freedom, and suicide is my answer for when that time comes, God knows how I have practiced. I do not blame any of you.

I use these circumstances as a personally verifiable and honest way of illustrating how we are collectively enabling the collapse. This is the best that I can do for you. Give you this warning and pray it takes hold in higher places.

Everyone's house will burn down.

Stay strong. And heal thyself, so that you may care for others and in so doing so make not only yourself stronger, also your Nation, neighbor, and world.

This isn't really your problem. It is my family's problem. And none of my family really deserve what we have. I just don't want this to also happen to any of you guys.

God bless /\ and I am truly greatful that there are still those of you who can afford the luxury of a nice and secure home. /\

[Reiwa]

85% of the homes in the united states are own by investment groups.

That's the problem :o



Is that true in a literal sense or are you referring to stock market garbage?

[starkind]

Is that true in a literal sense or are you referring to stock market garbage?

🧸🥃

[Reiwa]

����

15% of homes are owned outright?

The others are mortgaged and/or otherwise had their debt packaged into investment securities?

Something like that. hobart can correct.

[azxten]

I built my own home in Washington and did save tremendous amount of money. Was able to sell it for about double what I put into it within just 2.5 years.

With that said, you can not build a house cheaply right now, even if you do the work yourself. I am extremely well versed in construction costs, its basically all I do all day long for a very large home builder. 4x8 OSB is nearly 60 dollars a sheet. LVLs and LSLs are also outrageously expensive, along with any type of sheet metal, Vinyl material and decking. For perspecitve, when I built my house in WA back in 2016, 4x8 OSB was 5 bucks a sheet. At one point it spiked to $12 a sheet and everyone was losing their mind, now its 5 times the high that it was back then.

There is a housing shortage right now, as many people living in urban areas like NYC, Seattle, Portland, LA, etc etc are moving to more suburban and less crowded areas. Conservative states like Texas, Idaho and Utah are bursting at the seams with all the new people coming in, lot costs are skyrocketing because there is so little product on the market. The area I moved to has about 12 days of inventory.

Why are things so out of control right now? I would place the blame squarely on politicians shoulders that were in favor of a Covid shut down. This basically destroyed our economy, mills were shut down, production stopped for many many types of building materials. The 2nd part is, we have become so ridiculous with this idea of central planning when it comes to land use. Local governments have made it so difficult, if not impossible for developments to happen organically. I am currently involved in a land subdivision in WA state that is going on its 6th year of preconstruction entitlements and permitting. Its all complete bullshit, and a way for local governments to take control when it is absolutley screwing people over.

Its complete and utter bullshit. Anyone that is for this type of planning can go screw themselves. You are literally bankrupting the American people with your bullshit planning.

Yep I agree.

I actually think a lot of people are going to die soon though, that personal transportation is going to disappear, and basically Bill Gates is going to own all the arable land and everyone will be packed like sardines in the cities living a dystopian 1984 like nightmare. Some people will try to live in rural areas and be hunted by Bill Gates for fun. The concept of legal or illegal won't matter at that time.

[starkind]

15% of homes are owned outright?

The others are mortgaged and/or otherwise had their debt packaged into investment securities?

Something like that. hobart can correct.

Yabutt!

I don't even remember when my last shower was again!

Sorry!

😎🍦🚀

[Reiwa]

Yabutt!

I don't even remember when my last shower was again!

Sorry!

😎🍦🚀

Ur just trying to trigger me. :mad:

[starkind]

Ur just trying to trigger me. :mad:

I cooked, more like "batch" grilled 4 my friend today instead of showering. Took all my daily energy, still need showering..!

She's losing weight tho! And eating healthy! Proud of her! :arm flex:

[Jibartik]

Is that true in a literal sense or are you referring to stock market garbage?

It's as accurate as that dancing girl meme.

[Reiwa]

It's as accurate as that dancing girl meme.

Haha was it on here I saw that? I hate her!!

[starkind]

It's as accurate as that dancing girl meme.

Haha was it on here I saw that? I hate her!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/hai-phut-h%25C6%25A1n

Plz halp. I'm meme disabled.

???

:confused:

[Jibartik]

some spindly hipster genz chick on tiktok dancing talking 2012's progressive jargon.

[Reiwa]

some spindly hipster genz chick on tiktok dancing talking 2012's progressive jargon.

She wasn't even dancing. Just jumping around and waving her cooch like a maenad. 😬

[Homesteaded]

Manufacared home, homie?

No 70s split entry, 2500 sqft with 4 acres. Wildlife all over. Red and white pine, silver maples, some cherry trees, apple trees. Wild raspberry’s. We’re excited.

[starkind]

some spindly hipster genz chick on tiktok dancing talking 2012's progressive jargon.

She wasn't even dancing. Just jumping around and waving her cooch like a maenad. 😬

Oh. My brain didn't store that under art or dance ... or meme ;eek;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/hai-phut-h%25C6%25A1n


Did u see the rolls Royce one? That was woa... don't know how to link tiktok.

China is going to win and maybe even make friends with Japan.

America is losing WW3 even if Ukraine wins and Russia becomes a Chinese vassal. Maybe they already are?

Learn mandarin! 🤠🥃

[starkind]

No 70s split entry, 2500 sqft with 4 acres. Wildlife all over. Red and white pine, silver maples, some cherry trees, apple trees. Wild raspberry’s. We’re excited.

Sounds divine...when China invades don't throw it all away..just be beyond notice.

[Jibartik]

We are losing world war 3 I agree.

If we want to win it, we'll require use of our superior military force.

But that force is useless, because using it is considered a weapon of mass destruction and so the other side will just start nuking.

Our military is useless in world war 3, unless world war 3 is a conventioal nuke war.

And its apparent it's a trade war, with skirmishes.

If you compare the allied trade with the axis trade, the axis are stronger.

The allies are totally dependant on the axis powers.

We're going to lose, and you're right, we're losing.

[starkind]

Is that true in a literal sense or are you referring to stock market garbage?

Wall Street Corruption: Why the GameStop debacle is important. https://imgur.com/gallery/iPknYQK

A big question.. why do so many have mortgage...leans... loans... debt? On their homes... do they own it if the bank can take it?

[Gatordash]

Wall Street Corruption: Why the GameStop debacle is important. https://imgur.com/gallery/iPknYQK

A big question.. why do so many have mortgage...leans... loans... debt? On their homes... do they own it if the bank can take it?

Most can't afford to buy a home without a loan. Most mortgages are 30 year fixed rates so you don't technically own it until you pay it off after 30 years. But there is kinda no point to it because most people don't actually live in their home for 30 years so I look at it like you are paying rent. The good part about it though, in general over time, home prices go up. So when you sell your house, you have to pay back the rest of your loan, but you get to keep the money that has appreciated over time, where as rent you obviously don't.

[Naethyn]

Most can't afford to buy a home without a loan. Most mortgages are 30 year fixed rates so you don't technically own it until you pay it off after 30 years. But there is kinda no point to it because most people don't actually live in their home for 30 years so I look at it like you are paying rent. The good part about it though, in general over time, home prices go up. So when you sell your house, you have to pay back the rest of your loan, but you get to keep the money that has appreciated over time, where as rent you obviously don't.

And then you use that cash to write a check on the next home. And then you use that home as equity to get a loan on an another home that will appreciate more, because it is worth more. Repeat.

[starkind]

Buttfuck innocent retards right?

[Gatordash]

Anyone here ever used Ibuyers like opendoor or offerpad to sell their home? I had a neighbor use it a few weeks ago and got a good deal, and an employee of mine used opendoor like 2 years ago and she said she liked it too. I did the online survey thing on opendoor and the preliminary offer they gave me for my home seems too good to be true.

[Homesteaded]

Anyone here ever used Ibuyers like opendoor or offerpad to sell their home? I had a neighbor use it a few weeks ago and got a good deal, and an employee of mine used opendoor like 2 years ago and she said she liked it too. I did the online survey thing on opendoor and the preliminary offer they gave me for my home seems too good to be true.

Those services are for fools. If you are a fool then use it.

[Topgunben]

Need some pro advice.

Going to be getting a mortgage, but won’t be able to fully close until October. Is it possible to lock my rate in now and pay for extensions over the next several months?

[unsunghero]

Those services are for fools. If you are a fool then use it.

Yes I have also heard these places will lowball the shit outta you. From both realtors and just friends

[Jibartik]

I was watching some 80s movie and this country is about to be a dump for like 20 years.

https://i.imgur.com/lM3Ztpq.gif

[Gatordash]

Yes I have also heard these places will lowball the shit outta you. From both realtors and just friends

The ‘preliminary offer’ was almost 60k more than what the traditional realtor thought we could get at most. That’s why I thought it was too good to be true. I set up virtual walkthroughs with open door and Offerpad for Tuesday afternoon. It’s free so I’ll see how it goes. Also, the traditional realtor did comps on my house like 3 months ago so an extra 60k in 3 months in Las Vegas is kinda standard at this point :p

[unsunghero]

The ‘preliminary offer’ was almost 60k more than what the traditional realtor thought we could get at most. That’s why I thought it was too good to be true. I set up virtual walkthroughs with open door and Offerpad for Tuesday afternoon. It’s free so I’ll see how it goes. Also, the traditional realtor did comps on my house like 3 months ago so an extra 60k in 3 months in Las Vegas is kinda standard at this point :p

Yea I bet it seems too good to true because of the market not the investment firm buyer. They wouldn’t want it if they couldn’t flip the shit out of it somehow

I dunno, they seems dodgy to me. To sound British

[Gatordash]

Yea I bet it seems too good to true because of the market not the investment firm buyer. They wouldn’t want it if they couldn’t flip the shit out of it somehow

I dunno, they seems dodgy to me. To sound British

It is an extremely flippable house. No matter if we do traditional realtor, or ibuyer, I would be surprised if it doesn’t get flipped. …or get rented out for a crazy amount of money. I still kinda think we should rent it out because rent prices are so astronomical but I just don’t want to deal with it mentally.

[unsunghero]

It is an extremely flippable house. No matter if we do traditional realtor, or ibuyer, I would be surprised if it doesn’t get flipped. …or get rented out for a crazy amount of money. I still kinda think we should rent it out because rent prices are so astronomical but I just don’t want to deal with it mentally.

I think you can hire a company to handle the renting process They’ll take a cut of like 10% or something but will keep finding renters and handling all the paperwork stuff. I think maintenance costs are still on you. Had a co-worker who did it for one of his properties to trade $ for less stress

[Jibartik]

https://i.imgur.com/wRqtWdq.png

[robayon]

It is an extremely flippable house. No matter if we do traditional realtor, or ibuyer, I would be surprised if it doesn’t get flipped. …or get rented out for a crazy amount of money. I still kinda think we should rent it out because rent prices are so astronomical but I just don’t want to deal with it mentally.What, the guilt of being a landlord? You should experience guilt over this, it's a sign of a working conscience

[Reiwa]

https://i.imgur.com/wRqtWdq.png

Office bougs adopting the hammer and sickle, completely clueless.

[Jibartik]

I think she could have stopped at it benefits everyone.

[Gatordash]

What, the guilt of being a landlord? You should experience guilt over this, it's a sign of a working conscience

No I wouldn't feel guilty about that, its more like how shitty are these tenets and am I going to make money on this thing or not. Having to pay your mortgage for people to live for free in your house would have really sucked the past two years. I dont think it will happen again and I don't think the monetary risk is that much due to interest rates going so low the past two years (and me buying the house back in 2012) my mortgage is less than $800. I dunno maybe I should rent it out.

[robayon]

The specter of Mao Zedong is now haunting this thread

[Bardp1999]

I got notified today my mortgage is going up $300 a month due to the cost of all housing rising so much over the last 2 years

[robayon]

I got notified today my mortgage is going up $300 a month due to the cost of all housing rising so much over the last 2 yearsThose poor banks :(

[Patriam1066]

What, the guilt of being a landlord? You should experience guilt over this, it's a sign of a working conscience

Corporations and Chinese shouldn’t be able to own physical property (land). Individual landlords are rarely wealthy and are not the problem with rent

[Patriam1066]

Real talk, no foreigners should be able to own property. You can lease, not own

[Gatordash]

I got notified today my mortgage is going up $300 a month due to the cost of all housing rising so much over the last 2 years

Refinance for a fixed 30 year. You should have done it last year when interests rates were like 2.5%.

[robayon]

Corporations and Chinese shouldn’t be able to own physical property (land). Individual landlords are rarely wealthy and are not the problem with rentSure, it's largely faceless corporations or whatever structure, but it's not as easy to tell them they're making shitty, exploitative choices since they're not individuals and don't post on the elf forum

[Topgunben]

https://i.imgur.com/wRqtWdq.png

I can tell the person that wrote this has absolutely zero clue what he/she is talking about.

-Zoning most likely will not allow for the conversion of commercial into residential. It can take years to get a zoning variance, and failure to get approval is a high likelihood.

-Construction standards from Commerical to Residential are also different, it would require a huge upfront invesment to retrofit a commercial building to make apartments.

-Parking can be a big issue. Many jurisdictions require 1.5 parking spots per residential bedroom.

-Construction costs are enormous right now. Any investor will have to think long and hard about starting a construction project right now. Not to mention, it is very difficult to find subcontractors and materials.

-Its easy to kick a commercial tenant out, its damn near impossible to kick a residential tenant out. This has made many potential investors shy away from converting commercial into residential. Most commercial buildings worth of converting into residential apartments are in urbanized area, which tend to be democratically run and therefore have strict rent control/tenant protection laws.

Lastly, I actually think its a good idea to be able to do this kind of conversion, but unfortunately government regulation has made this impossible for all of the above reasons.

The real solution is to dissolve all government regulation, especially zoning laws, and let development happen organically.

[robayon]

I can tell the person that wrote this has absolutely zero clue what he/she is talking about.

-Zoning most likely will not allow for the conversion of commercial into residential. It can take years to get a zoning variance, and failure to get approval is a high likelihood.

-Construction standards from Commerical to Residential are also different, it would require a huge upfront invesment to retrofit a commercial building to make apartments.

-Parking can be a big issue. Many jurisdictions require 1.5 parking spots per residential bedroom.

-Construction costs are enormous right now. Any investor will have to think long and hard about starting a construction project right now. Not to mention, it is very difficult to find subcontractors and materials.

-Its easy to kick a commercial tenant out, its damn near impossible to kick a residential tenant out. This has made many potential investors shy away from converting commercial into residential. Most commercial buildings worth of converting into residential apartments are in urbanized area, which tend to be democratically run and therefore have strict rent control/tenant protection laws.

Lastly, I actually think its a good idea to be able to do this kind of conversion, but unfortunately government regulation has made this impossible for all of the above reasons.

The real solution is to dissolve all government regulation, especially zoning laws, and let development happen organically.Feel like you missed a few steps from "there should be fewer obstacles to converting commercial buildings into residential" straight into "let's let the milk bottlers put raw brains in the milk again"

[Topgunben]

Feel like you missed a few steps from "there should be fewer obstacles to converting commercial buildings into residential" straight into "let's let the milk bottlers put raw brains in the milk again"

I'm having a hard time understanding what you are getting at :confused:

[Reiwa]

I'm having a hard time understanding what you are getting at :confused:

Can change policy without deleting it. I think it's called reform.

[Bardp1999]

Refinance for a fixed 30 year. You should have done it last year when interests rates were like 2.5%.

Its the escrow taxes not the actual mortgage, taxes are sky rocketing due to pricing hikes

[robayon]

I'm having a hard time understanding what you are getting at :confused:Some regulation BAD

Other regulation GOOD

We don't have to burn the forest down to save one batch of trees

I was referencing the history of absolute horrors that went into the food supplies of Americans before the FDA was created. They literally used to put raw brains in milk to get the frothiness back after pasteurization (or something like that). Among other nightmares. Formaldehyde too, but that's still in plenty of other foods we still eat

Some stuff should be regulated and some stuff is over regulated

[Topgunben]

Some regulation BAD

Other regulation GOOD

We don't have to burn the forest down to save one batch of trees

I was referencing the history of absolute horrors that went into the food supplies of Americans before the FDA was created. They literally used to put raw brains in milk to get the frothiness back after pasteurization (or something like that). Among other nightmares. Formaldehyde too, but that's still in plenty of other foods we still eat

Some stuff should be regulated and some stuff is over regulated

I guess I just think that we are really under this false idea that government protection offers us something that we wouldn’t have conjured up for ourselves on our own.

The libertarian side of me has a hard time believing the government is capable of doing anything good. The libertarian side of me seems to have the most common sense.