EQ TLP: Mischief and Thornblade

[Evia]

I couldn’t find our original thread. Post what server and characters you have and maybe we can get some groups going.

I’ve got a group of people on Mischief. My characters are Resken a 9 bard and Kell the lvl 5 monk.

Add me on friends list if you’re over there!


Last night we were in crushbone killing the task master and I ended up getting a weird bard flute I’ve never seen before with the randomized loot.


It’s not classic eq but it’s still been enjoyable.

[RecondoJoe]

Xeratul, level 45 Erudite Cleric on Thornblade. Quite a few P99 players over here.

[Lune]

Valessar level 18 ranger on Mischief.

I've got a fun racket going. I figured out you can buy broadswords for a couple silver off newb vendors, melt them down into bricks, and beat them into sheet metal to make banded for 1/10th the price. A lot of work but plat is scarce for me as I don't know the in's and out's of TLP.

[RecondoJoe]

Kerra Isle is OP for loot in mid teens. Polished Granite Tomahawks, Obsidian Shards, Cloak of Shadows, Runed Circlet etc.

Unrest Fireplace: Pearl Kedge Totem, Reed Belt

Unrest Basement: Runes Lava Pedant, Ring of the Ancients, Guise of Deceiver, Siryn Hat with 13 charisma

Kobold Royals: FBSS, SMR
BNB: hammerhead helm, SSoY

Some of the more common stuff I’ve gotten so far. Not even close to everything.

PS. A totemic HELMET dropped earlier. Yes, a quest item dropped... Oh also got a ravenscale breastplate. No rubicite yet. Honestly too much loot to remember really. They said since classic is short the drop rates are turned up.

[Byue]

40 wizard here.

Seriously loot is insane and server is fun.

[Noselacri]

They kind of fucked it all up with the absurd abundance of loot. Regular rares drop up to five items at a time (and spawn more often) and raid bosses apparently drop 20+. A streamer also got dragon loot off of a random spite golem, but that was quickly hotfixed, so it appears to have been a bug. The fact that they haven't hotfixed the 5 items from rares and 20+ from raid bosses tells me it's intended and staying. In that light, the server has no real future as it will be so saturated with gear that it'll be a joke. You'll clear NToV twice and get full BIS for the whole guild. It's a joke server already.

[Byue]

well, that got hotfixed.
this week-end, rares are 50% more likely to spawn so obviously, loot abound but still.

I think it alleviate the chokepoint of having only one mob drop the item.
it adds excitement of hunting even in an out of place area.

I don't know.
I like it.

[Lune]

They kind of fucked it all up with the absurd abundance of loot. Regular rares drop up to five items at a time (and spawn more often) and raid bosses apparently drop 20+. A streamer also got dragon loot off of a random spite golem, but that was quickly hotfixed, so it appears to have been a bug. The fact that they haven't hotfixed the 5 items from rares and 20+ from raid bosses tells me it's intended and staying. In that light, the server has no real future as it will be so saturated with gear that it'll be a joke. You'll clear NToV twice and get full BIS for the whole guild. It's a joke server already.

Honestly I think it just raises the floor closer to the ceiling. P99 blue also has an absolute glut of items due to its extended time period, but the most desirable items are typically still valuable. For most of p99's lifetime you could pick up certain high end dungeon/raid items for hundreds of pp in EC.

I think it will have the wonderful effect of making all the bot armies and box armies pointless.

[starkind]

They kind of fucked it all up with the absurd abundance of loot. Regular rares drop up to five items at a time (and spawn more often) and raid bosses apparently drop 20+. A streamer also got dragon loot off of a random spite golem, but that was quickly hotfixed, so it appears to have been a bug. The fact that they haven't hotfixed the 5 items from rares and 20+ from raid bosses tells me it's intended and staying. In that light, the server has no real future as it will be so saturated with gear that it'll be a joke. You'll clear NToV twice and get full BIS for the whole guild. It's a joke server already.

Not every server is meant to be an insufferable hemorrhoid inducing rage affair.

[Byue]

Lune that is clever!

[Lune]

I've found that as I get higher level, I can't see the low level ranger spells available anymore in the ranger guild. A druid buddy noticed the same thing when I asked him to pick up some spells for me.

Do Mischief/Thornblade have some kind of trivial loot code or is this a bug?

[Jimjam]

Did you try toggling the ‘can use’ option on the vendor?

[Lune]

Did you try toggling the ‘can use’ option on the vendor?

That solved the mystery. Thanks

[Evia]

So I got my bard to 35. I am enjoying the server overall. I’m stoked to see how this random loot works in kunark. It should be much more interesting.

[starkind]

Later expacs will be way more interesting. As the loot is generally on a select smaller range of lvls and mobs, so named in PoP should have a ton of cool stuff, etc, will be really cool to see how the server evolves.

[imperiouskitten]

I happen to know that Kunark chestpieces are dropping (saw a Tolan's BP) from Sky right now

[Gustoo]

I’m glad the live team is making a compelling product

[Byue]

well i really enjoy it.

if you on thornblade. let me know.
i don't care that you hate me if you want to ply, let's have fun.
it's really fun.

[kabouter]

Out of curiosity how fast is the leveling xp compared to p1999? Started playing on green now, but Thornblade sounds interesting as well.

[Gustoo]

The TLP servers are not classic at all so decide if you want classic, or want...whatever the TLP stuff is. Don't worry about level rate.

The guys here talking about going to TLP have been playing project 1999 Classic -> velious for like ten years at this point so it makes sense for the desire to check other everquest out.

[Byue]

Kabouter. took me 2 days t grind 50-60. or close to 20 hous.
I got my epic.
Kunark launched last wednesday.
FUN.

[Jibartik]

love mischife!

I am disappointed I'm not seeing Moss covered twig or gem encrusted ring drop or for sale, so those dont seem to be dropping.

You dont see a lot of pre nerf gather shadows hats either.

Idk why though because they have other legacy items, like guises and it's raining fungi staffs.

[Byue]

Did you loot a fungi, or a staff yet?
Are you even 60, jibardick.

How do you know, it's raining staves?
I know, and it's true, and I made a lot of kr.

But I doubt you seen one with your eyes.

[Evia]

Im loving Mischief too! Having a real great time.

I stocked up and flipped in the tunnel for a solid week and acquired 20 guises. I've sold exactly half of them already and have made back my krono investment + geared my bard completely. I think I'll hang on to the rest until late velious/luclin/pop.

Once I get 60 I'm going to try and finish my bard epic. I need trak guts, kedge backbone and skyfire guts and I'm done.

How's all your adventures going?

[Jibartik]

I just sold some wood chips trash I got in KC last night in EC for 3 krono, that's like 50$ lol

[Byue]

Im loving Mischief too! Having a real great time.

I stocked up and flipped in the tunnel for a solid week and acquired 20 guises. I've sold exactly half of them already and have made back my krono investment + geared my bard completely. I think I'll hang on to the rest until late velious/luclin/pop.

Once I get 60 I'm going to try and finish my bard epic. I need trak guts, kedge backbone and skyfire guts and I'm done.

How's all your adventures going?

I'll give you tip: permafrost is great for guises. HBC. peggy cloak and it was eeeeeempty. (king camp is king, high priest zarhann and the two elite honor guard for 4 rares in a 10 feet radius)
I must have looted over 90 guises.
I am one kill away from my epic. (tonight baby!)
And I am having a fun time doing stuff, helping friends, running around.
flipping things in the tunnel (man people really don't care about kr and spend it liberally) and having all my tradeskills maxxed, which I had never done in EQ.
(but that little men that combine for you did it for me. No way I'm clicking a thousand times something just to make a subcombine for a subcombine to make something.

All in all, I am having a fun time but I think and really believe in my heart tat thornblade was the better option.

You know about the auctionner (https://araduneauctions.net/search/Thornblade/) right?
Switch to mischief.

[kabouter]

The TLP servers are not classic at all so decide if you want classic, or want...whatever the TLP stuff is. Don't worry about level rate.

The guys here talking about going to TLP have been playing project 1999 Classic -> velious for like ten years at this point so it makes sense for the desire to check other everquest out.

Ah I just started again and am enjoying it, but leveling is so slow for a casual like me (I know the journey, not the destination). And I kind of like some of the QoL (played on takp before), but don't like boxing that much.
So if the leveling speed is like times 3 that would be a bonus for me.

Kabouter. took me 2 days t grind 50-60. or close to 20 hous.
I got my epic.
Kunark launched last wednesday.
FUN.
20 hours is sort of what it took me to get to level 10 on p1999 I think :D. Is this casual or mass AoE farming/swarming tactics?
And for the epic do the pieces also drop at random now? Or do you mean that because of instancing/no neckbearding it was easier?
Tbh I don't think I'll be able to keep up with the roll out of expansions at all, but who knows.

I'll give you tip: permafrost is great for guises. HBC. peggy cloak and it was eeeeeempty. (king camp is king, high priest zarhann and the two elite honor guard for 4 rares in a 10 feet radius)
I must have looted over 90 guises.
I am one kill away from my epic. (tonight baby!)
And I am having a fun time doing stuff, helping friends, running around.
flipping things in the tunnel (man people really don't care about kr and spend it liberally) and having all my tradeskills maxxed, which I had never done in EQ.
(but that little men that combine for you did it for me. No way I'm clicking a thousand times something just to make a subcombine for a subcombine to make something.

All in all, I am having a fun time but I think and really believe in my heart tat thornblade was the better option.

You know about the auctionner (https://araduneauctions.net/search/Thornblade/) right?
Switch to mischief.

Why Thornblade over Mischief? And are feign death classes still the best option for players like me who might have to go AFK at any time or are there new/upcoming game mechanics that make it easier to go AFK in a pinch with other classes as well? I love playing an enchanter, but charming is just not afk friendly.

[Byue]

Well no, enchanters aren't for you if you go AFK but you know this already.

AS for the grinding to 60, we were a pre-planned group of guildies but nothing fancy.
Warrior, rogue, ranger, wizard, enchanter, cleric. You can tell we just brute forced it up.
The good thing is we did 50-60 all in the same spot, chardok kennels and that's basically impossible here.

I'm the wizard.
In classic, only phinny dropped blue crystal staff but in kunak, gnarled staff dropped from Trak for me. (bonus mana robe)
nd the broken golem spawn every 8hours.

Here is an idea of what to expect about epics. (https://www.eqprogression.com/page/6/)

Not only that, but with the instances, the faster spawn rate, even with hundred of wizards, I could still get it within a week. 90% of my guild is epic'ed out already.
We actually had dkp bonus to reach 60 by friday, vp key by saturday and epic by sunday.
I got all three bonus and I don't play this hardcore.


Mischief has a big population, lots of competing guilds for out of world.
Their economy is weird as evidenced here (https://araduneauctions.net/search/Thornblade)
and a lot of the people playing TLP have done so for a while, now and apparently, I cannot confirm this, but all the bads and douches are on mischief.

Because it took me like 4 days throughout two expansions to get max level, the fun begins and end where you leave it.

Because of increased speed of everything, you will find what you are looking for.
Enjoy the server, whatever you play, may it be P99 or mischief or thornblade.
And don't forget to enjoy real life, too!

Misty thicket picnics are great but have one with friends, in the parc, too.
(and forget that marmalade sandwich)

[Jibartik]

speaking of posting pics, post a pic of any of that :o

[Byue]

If I can confirm your identity on that server, I will gladly.

And then reroll on your server and make your life miserable.

P.S: I just like that you do not believe me because it betrays that you are nowhere near where I am in-game.

Even recondojoe saw, that I was decked out and geared and on my server's top guild.


But yeah, just give me your name, ima log on mischief and if it's you, I will gladly screenshot everything you want to see.
Which I know you do because envy is one of your traits.

So is jealousy.

Doesn't matter anyway.
I could have played 10 minutes and be max lvl and have my epic.
go krono.


Another thing that you cannot afford.

[Jibartik]

If I can confirm your identity on that server, I will gladly.

And then reroll on your server and make your life miserable.

P.S: I just like that you do not believe me because it betrays that you are nowhere near where I am in-game.

Even recondojoe saw, that I was decked out and geared and on my server's top guild.


But yeah, just give me your name, ima log on mischief and if it's you, I will gladly screenshot everything you want to see.
Which I know you do because envy is one of your traits.

So is jealousy.

congrats on lying about being somewhere on the live joke server lol

[Byue]

congrats on lying about being somewhere on the live joke server lol

This is where you play, guy.
Was that supposed to be an insult to me...or to you, who is not even somewhere on the joke server? lol.

You really should think about your zingers like party flipped an this shit.

[Jibartik]

I've already beat this game bro

[Byue]

I've already beat this game bro

I beat supr mario bro a thousand times but when I start a new game, it's a new game.
When I die, I died because of my bad skills.

I'm not defending myself saying I beat the game before because I started a new game to... show something/do something/prove something and yeah.

I don't think you get it.
But you play a game fulltime, post here full time and you suck here, and suck on mischief.

You're like the people getting carried in LoL. why?

[Lune]

If I can confirm your identity on that server, I will gladly.

And then reroll on your server and make your life miserable.

P.S: I just like that you do not believe me because it betrays that you are nowhere near where I am in-game.

Even recondojoe saw, that I was decked out and geared and on my server's top guild.


But yeah, just give me your name, ima log on mischief and if it's you, I will gladly screenshot everything you want to see.
Which I know you do because envy is one of your traits.

So is jealousy.

Doesn't matter anyway.
I could have played 10 minutes and be max lvl and have my epic.
go krono.


Another thing that you cannot afford.

Why are your posts so fuckin weird and hard to read? Press enter less

[Jibartik]

I beat supr mario bro a thousand times but when I start a new game, it's a new game.
When I die, I died because of my bad skills.

I'm not defending myself saying I beat the game before because I started a new game to... show something/do something/prove something and yeah.

I don't think you get it.
But you play a game fulltime, post here full time and you suck here, and suck on mischief.

You're like the people getting carried in LoL. why?

Is that really what you think of this somewhere you've made it on mischife? No wonder you're so depressed. You just described yourself.

[bubur]

forgot to log in here for a while because im playing too much thornblade with byue

can confirm he's a pimp ingame and probably irl

[Jibartik]

that is some furry level shit bur

like id prefer you came out as a paw licking furry than that never ending yikes

[bubur]

i like playing everquest

what can i say

[Jibartik]

i aint talkn about that part

[Byue]

kek.


I mean, I'm a very friendly person.
I give and I give and I give and I receive as much as I give.
Look, granted, being somebody in a video game is futile but you're the one who asked me to prove it, because you do not believe it because you probably put a lot of time and efforts into the game and are nowhere close to epic, or 60.

Then you just said whatever you're a loser if you are good at the game and anyway, at one point, you were so decked out and good that you consider you beat the game and how do you even reconcile these thoughts, bro?

Lune.

It's called formatting.
Trust me, I know this because I read a lot, airy text are more readable than stack of text.

Look.

Nietzsche is arguably most famous for his criticisms of traditional European moral commitments, together with their foundations in Christianity. This critique is very wide-ranging; it aims to undermine not just religious faith or philosophical moral theory, but also many central aspects of ordinary moral consciousness, some of which are difficult to imagine doing without (e.g., altruistic concern, guilt for wrongdoing, moral responsibility, the value of compassion, the demand for equal consideration of persons, and so on). By the time Nietzsche wrote, it was common for European intellectuals to assume that such ideas, however much inspiration they owed to the Christian intellectual and faith tradition, needed a rational grounding independent from particular sectarian or even ecumenical religious commitments. Then as now, most philosophers assumed that a secular vindication of morality would surely be forthcoming and would save the large majority of our standard commitments. Nietzsche found that confidence naïve, and he deployed all his rhetorical prowess to shock his readers out of complacency on this score. For example, his doubts about the viability of Christian underpinnings for moral and cultural life are not offered in a sunny spirit of anticipated liberation, nor does he present a sober but basically confident call to develop a secular understanding of morality; instead, he launches the famous, aggressive and paradoxical pronouncement that “God is dead” (GS 108, 125, 343). The idea is not so much that atheism is true—in GS 125, he depicts this pronouncement arriving as fresh news to a group of atheists—but instead that because “the belief in the Christian God has become unbelievable”, everything that was “built upon this faith, propped up by it, grown into it”, including “the whole of our European morality”, is destined for “collapse” (GS 343). Christianity no longer commands society-wide cultural allegiance as a framework grounding ethical commitments, and thus, a common basis for collective life that was supposed to have been immutable and invulnerable has turned out to be not only less stable than we assumed, but incomprehensibly mortal—and in fact, already lost. The response called for by such a turn of events is mourning and deep disorientation. Indeed, the case is even worse than that, according to Nietzsche. Not only do standard moral commitments lack a foundation we thought they had, but stripped of their veneer of unquestionable authority, they prove to have been not just baseless but positively harmful. Unfortunately, the moralization of our lives has insidiously attached itself to genuine psychological needs—some basic to our condition, others cultivated by the conditions of life under morality—so its corrosive effects cannot simply be removed without further psychological damage. Still worse, the damaging side of morality has implanted itself within us in the form of a genuine self-understanding, making it hard for us to imagine ourselves living any other way. Thus, Nietzsche argues, we are faced with a difficult, long term restoration project in which the most cherished aspects of our way of life must be ruthlessly investigated, dismantled, and then reconstructed in healthier form—all while we continue somehow to sail the ship of our common ethical life on the high seas. The most extensive development of this Nietzschean critique of morality appears in his late work On the Genealogy of Morality, which consists of three treatises, each devoted to the psychological examination of a central moral idea. In the First Treatise, Nietzsche takes up the idea that moral consciousness consists fundamentally in altruistic concern for others. He begins by observing a striking fact, namely, that this widespread conception of what morality is all about—while entirely commonsensical to us—is not the essence of any possible morality, but a historical innovation. To make the case for historical change, he identifies two patterns of ethical assessment, each associated with a basic pair of evaluative terms, a good/bad pattern and a good/evil pattern. Understood according to the good/bad pattern, the idea of goodness originated in social class privilege: the good were first understood to be those of the higher social order, but then eventually the idea of goodness was “internalized”—i.e., transferred from social class itself to traits of character and other personal excellences that were typically associated with the privileged caste (for example, the virtue of courage for a society with a privileged military class, or magnanimity for one with a wealthy elite, or truthfulness and (psychological) nobility for a culturally ambitious aristocracy; see GM I, 4). In such a system, goodness is associated with exclusive virtues. There is no thought that everyone should be excellent—the very idea makes no sense, since to be excellent is to be distinguished from the ordinary run of people. In that sense, good/bad valuation arises out of a “pathos of distance” (GM I, 2) expressing the superiority excellent people feel over ordinary ones, and it gives rise to a “noble morality” (BGE 260). Nietzsche shows rather convincingly that this pattern of assessment was dominant in ancient Mediterranean culture (the Homeric world, later Greek and Roman society, and even much of ancient philosophical ethics). The good/evil pattern of valuation is quite different. It focuses its negative evaluation (evil) on violations of the interests or well-being of others—and consequently its positive evaluation (good) on altruistic concern for their welfare. Such a morality needs to have universalistic pretensions: if it is to promote and protect the welfare of all, its restrictions and injunctions must apply to everyone equally. It is thereby especially amenable to ideas of basic human equality, starting from the thought that each person has an equal claim to moral consideration and respect. These are familiar ideas in the modern context—so familiar, indeed, that Nietzsche observes how easily we confuse them with “the moral manner of valuation as such” (GM Pref., 4)—but the universalist structure, altruistic sentiments, and egalitarian tendency of those values mark an obvious contrast with the valuation of exclusive virtues in the good/bad pattern. The contrast, together with the prior dominance of good/bad structured moralities, raises a straightforward historical question: What happened? How did we get from the widespread acceptance of good/bad valuation to the near universal dominance of good/evil thinking? Nietzsche’s famous answer is unflattering to our modern conception. He insists that the transformation was the result of a “slave revolt in morality” (GM I, 10; cf. BGE 260). The exact nature of this alleged revolt is a matter of ongoing scholarly controversy (in recent literature, see Bittner 1994; Reginster 1997; Migotti 1998; Ridley 1998; May 1999: 41–54; Leiter 2002: 193–222; Janaway 2007: 90–106, 223–9; Owen 2007: 78–89; Wallace 2007; Anderson 2011; Poellner 2011), but the broad outline is clear enough. People who suffered from oppression at the hands of the noble, excellent, (but uninhibited) people valorized by good/bad morality—and who were denied any effective recourse against them by relative powerlessness—developed a persistent, corrosive emotional pattern of resentful hatred against their enemies, which Nietzsche calls ressentiment. That emotion motivated the development of the new moral concept <evil>, purpose-designed for the moralistic condemnation of those enemies. (How conscious or unconscious—how “strategic” or not—this process is supposed to have been is one matter of scholarly controversy.) Afterward, via negation of the concept of evil, the new concept of goodness emerges, rooted in altruistic concern of a sort that would inhibit evil actions. Moralistic condemnation using these new values does little by itself to satisfy the motivating desire for revenge, but if the new way of thinking could spread, gaining more adherents and eventually influencing the evaluations even of the nobility, then the revenge might be impressive—indeed, “the most spiritual” form of revenge (GM I, 7; see also GM I, 10–11). For in that case, the revolt would accomplish a “radical revaluation” (GM I, 7) that would corrupt the very values that gave the noble way of life its character and made it seem admirable in the first place. For Nietzsche, then, our morality amounts to a vindictive effort to poison the happiness of the fortunate (GM III, 14), instead of a high-minded, dispassionate, and strictly rational concern for others. This can seem hard to accept, both as an account of how the valuation of altruistic concern originated and even more as a psychological explanation of the basis of altruism in modern moral subjects, who are far removed from the social conditions that figure in Nietzsche’s story. That said, Nietzsche offers two strands of evidence sufficient to give pause to an open minded reader. In the Christian context, he points to the surprising prevalence of what one might call the “brimstone, hellfire, and damnation diatribe” in Christian letters and sermons: Nietzsche cites at length a striking example from Tertullian (GM I, 15), but that example is the tip of a very large iceberg, and it is a troubling puzzle what this genre of “vengeful outbursts” (GM I, 16) is even doing within (what is supposed to be) a religion of love and forgiveness. Second, Nietzsche observes with confidence-shaking perspicacity how frequently indignant moralistic condemnation itself, whether arising in serious criminal or public matters or from more private personal interactions, can detach itself from any measured assessment of the wrong and devolve into a free-floating expression of vengeful resentment against some (real or imagined) perpetrator. The spirit of such condemnations is disturbingly often more in line with Nietzsche’s diagnosis of altruism than it is with our conventional (but possibly self-satisfied) moral self-understanding. The First Treatise does little, however, to suggest why inhabitants of a noble morality might be at all moved by such condemnations, generating a question about how the moral revaluation could have succeeded. Nothing internal to the nobles’ value system gives them any grounds for general altruistic concern or any reason to pay heed to the complaints of those whom they have already dismissed as contemptible. The Second Treatise, about guilt and bad conscience, offers some materials toward an answer to this puzzle. Nietzsche begins from the insight that guilt bears a close conceptual connection to the notion of debt. Just as a debtor’s failure to repay gives the creditor the right to seek alternative compensation (whether via some remedy spelled out in a contract, or less formally, through general social or legal sanctions), so a guilty party owes the victim some form of response to the violation, which serves as a kind of compensation for whatever harm was suffered. Nietzsche’s conjectural history of the “moralized” (GM II, 21) notion of guilt suggests that it developed through a transfer of this structure—which pairs each loss to some (punishment-involving) compensation—from the domain of material debt to a wider class of actions that violate some socially accepted norm. The really important conceptual transformation, however, is not the transfer itself, but an accompanying purification and internalization of the feeling of indebtedness, which connect the demand for compensation to a source of wrongful action that is supposed to be entirely within the agent’s control, and thereby attach a negative assessment to the guilty person’s basic sense of personal worth.


Is a lot more intimidating than


Nietzsche is arguably most famous for his criticisms of traditional European moral commitments, together with their foundations in Christianity. This critique is very wide-ranging; it aims to undermine not just religious faith or philosophical moral theory, but also many central aspects of ordinary moral consciousness, some of which are difficult to imagine doing without (e.g., altruistic concern, guilt for wrongdoing, moral responsibility, the value of compassion, the demand for equal consideration of persons, and so on).

By the time Nietzsche wrote, it was common for European intellectuals to assume that such ideas, however much inspiration they owed to the Christian intellectual and faith tradition, needed a rational grounding independent from particular sectarian or even ecumenical religious commitments. Then as now, most philosophers assumed that a secular vindication of morality would surely be forthcoming and would save the large majority of our standard commitments. Nietzsche found that confidence naïve, and he deployed all his rhetorical prowess to shock his readers out of complacency on this score. For example, his doubts about the viability of Christian underpinnings for moral and cultural life are not offered in a sunny spirit of anticipated liberation, nor does he present a sober but basically confident call to develop a secular understanding of morality; instead, he launches the famous, aggressive and paradoxical pronouncement that “God is dead” (GS 108, 125, 343). The idea is not so much that atheism is true—in GS 125, he depicts this pronouncement arriving as fresh news to a group of atheists—but instead that because “the belief in the Christian God has become unbelievable”, everything that was “built upon this faith, propped up by it, grown into it”, including “the whole of our European morality”, is destined for “collapse” (GS 343). Christianity no longer commands society-wide cultural allegiance as a framework grounding ethical commitments, and thus, a common basis for collective life that was supposed to have been immutable and invulnerable has turned out to be not only less stable than we assumed, but incomprehensibly mortal—and in fact, already lost. The response called for by such a turn of events is mourning and deep disorientation.

Indeed, the case is even worse than that, according to Nietzsche. Not only do standard moral commitments lack a foundation we thought they had, but stripped of their veneer of unquestionable authority, they prove to have been not just baseless but positively harmful. Unfortunately, the moralization of our lives has insidiously attached itself to genuine psychological needs—some basic to our condition, others cultivated by the conditions of life under morality—so its corrosive effects cannot simply be removed without further psychological damage. Still worse, the damaging side of morality has implanted itself within us in the form of a genuine self-understanding, making it hard for us to imagine ourselves living any other way. Thus, Nietzsche argues, we are faced with a difficult, long term restoration project in which the most cherished aspects of our way of life must be ruthlessly investigated, dismantled, and then reconstructed in healthier form—all while we continue somehow to sail the ship of our common ethical life on the high seas.

The most extensive development of this Nietzschean critique of morality appears in his late work On the Genealogy of Morality, which consists of three treatises, each devoted to the psychological examination of a central moral idea. In the First Treatise, Nietzsche takes up the idea that moral consciousness consists fundamentally in altruistic concern for others. He begins by observing a striking fact, namely, that this widespread conception of what morality is all about—while entirely commonsensical to us—is not the essence of any possible morality, but a historical innovation.

To make the case for historical change, he identifies two patterns of ethical assessment, each associated with a basic pair of evaluative terms, a good/bad pattern and a good/evil pattern. Understood according to the good/bad pattern, the idea of goodness originated in social class privilege: the good were first understood to be those of the higher social order, but then eventually the idea of goodness was “internalized”—i.e., transferred from social class itself to traits of character and other personal excellences that were typically associated with the privileged caste (for example, the virtue of courage for a society with a privileged military class, or magnanimity for one with a wealthy elite, or truthfulness and (psychological) nobility for a culturally ambitious aristocracy; see GM I, 4). In such a system, goodness is associated with exclusive virtues. There is no thought that everyone should be excellent—the very idea makes no sense, since to be excellent is to be distinguished from the ordinary run of people. In that sense, good/bad valuation arises out of a “pathos of distance” (GM I, 2) expressing the superiority excellent people feel over ordinary ones, and it gives rise to a “noble morality” (BGE 260). Nietzsche shows rather convincingly that this pattern of assessment was dominant in ancient Mediterranean culture (the Homeric world, later Greek and Roman society, and even much of ancient philosophical ethics).

The good/evil pattern of valuation is quite different. It focuses its negative evaluation (evil) on violations of the interests or well-being of others—and consequently its positive evaluation (good) on altruistic concern for their welfare. Such a morality needs to have universalistic pretensions: if it is to promote and protect the welfare of all, its restrictions and injunctions must apply to everyone equally. It is thereby especially amenable to ideas of basic human equality, starting from the thought that each person has an equal claim to moral consideration and respect. These are familiar ideas in the modern context—so familiar, indeed, that Nietzsche observes how easily we confuse them with “the moral manner of valuation as such” (GM Pref., 4)—but the universalist structure, altruistic sentiments, and egalitarian tendency of those values mark an obvious contrast with the valuation of exclusive virtues in the good/bad pattern. The contrast, together with the prior dominance of good/bad structured moralities, raises a straightforward historical question: What happened? How did we get from the widespread acceptance of good/bad valuation to the near universal dominance of good/evil thinking?

Nietzsche’s famous answer is unflattering to our modern conception. He insists that the transformation was the result of a “slave revolt in morality” (GM I, 10; cf. BGE 260). The exact nature of this alleged revolt is a matter of ongoing scholarly controversy (in recent literature, see Bittner 1994; Reginster 1997; Migotti 1998; Ridley 1998; May 1999: 41–54; Leiter 2002: 193–222; Janaway 2007: 90–106, 223–9; Owen 2007: 78–89; Wallace 2007; Anderson 2011; Poellner 2011), but the broad outline is clear enough. People who suffered from oppression at the hands of the noble, excellent, (but uninhibited) people valorized by good/bad morality—and who were denied any effective recourse against them by relative powerlessness—developed a persistent, corrosive emotional pattern of resentful hatred against their enemies, which Nietzsche calls ressentiment. That emotion motivated the development of the new moral concept <evil>, purpose-designed for the moralistic condemnation of those enemies. (How conscious or unconscious—how “strategic” or not—this process is supposed to have been is one matter of scholarly controversy.) Afterward, via negation of the concept of evil, the new concept of goodness emerges, rooted in altruistic concern of a sort that would inhibit evil actions. Moralistic condemnation using these new values does little by itself to satisfy the motivating desire for revenge, but if the new way of thinking could spread, gaining more adherents and eventually influencing the evaluations even of the nobility, then the revenge might be impressive—indeed, “the most spiritual” form of revenge (GM I, 7; see also GM I, 10–11). For in that case, the revolt would accomplish a “radical revaluation” (GM I, 7) that would corrupt the very values that gave the noble way of life its character and made it seem admirable in the first place.

For Nietzsche, then, our morality amounts to a vindictive effort to poison the happiness of the fortunate (GM III, 14), instead of a high-minded, dispassionate, and strictly rational concern for others. This can seem hard to accept, both as an account of how the valuation of altruistic concern originated and even more as a psychological explanation of the basis of altruism in modern moral subjects, who are far removed from the social conditions that figure in Nietzsche’s story. That said, Nietzsche offers two strands of evidence sufficient to give pause to an open minded reader. In the Christian context, he points to the surprising prevalence of what one might call the “brimstone, hellfire, and damnation diatribe” in Christian letters and sermons: Nietzsche cites at length a striking example from Tertullian (GM I, 15), but that example is the tip of a very large iceberg, and it is a troubling puzzle what this genre of “vengeful outbursts” (GM I, 16) is even doing within (what is supposed to be) a religion of love and forgiveness. Second, Nietzsche observes with confidence-shaking perspicacity how frequently indignant moralistic condemnation itself, whether arising in serious criminal or public matters or from more private personal interactions, can detach itself from any measured assessment of the wrong and devolve into a free-floating expression of vengeful resentment against some (real or imagined) perpetrator. The spirit of such condemnations is disturbingly often more in line with Nietzsche’s diagnosis of altruism than it is with our conventional (but possibly self-satisfied) moral self-understanding.

The First Treatise does little, however, to suggest why inhabitants of a noble morality might be at all moved by such condemnations, generating a question about how the moral revaluation could have succeeded. Nothing internal to the nobles’ value system gives them any grounds for general altruistic concern or any reason to pay heed to the complaints of those whom they have already dismissed as contemptible. The Second Treatise, about guilt and bad conscience, offers some materials toward an answer to this puzzle.

Nietzsche begins from the insight that guilt bears a close conceptual connection to the notion of debt. Just as a debtor’s failure to repay gives the creditor the right to seek alternative compensation (whether via some remedy spelled out in a contract, or less formally, through general social or legal sanctions), so a guilty party owes the victim some form of response to the violation, which serves as a kind of compensation for whatever harm was suffered. Nietzsche’s conjectural history of the “moralized” (GM II, 21) notion of guilt suggests that it developed through a transfer of this structure—which pairs each loss to some (punishment-involving) compensation—from the domain of material debt to a wider class of actions that violate some socially accepted norm. The really important conceptual transformation, however, is not the transfer itself, but an accompanying purification and internalization of the feeling of indebtedness, which connect the demand for compensation to a source of wrongful action that is supposed to be entirely within the agent’s control, and thereby attach a negative assessment to the guilty person’s basic sense of personal worth.



And all I did was space out each paragraph.
Welcome to grade 6.

[Byue]

Jiba, we had plans to play together before you got butthurt and needed a safe space.

Before you went full retard, we were talking a lot.

You're just bitter.
I still think you're a good (confused) dude.
Why so much hatred in your heart?

[Jibartik]

I dont like oblivious people.

[bubur]

oh. byue and i are guildies now, this person who i only marginally know is now someone who i now a little more than marginally know and with the same letters under our names

changes things, i'd steal the scraps out of ur mouth to give to byue's 3rd alt. c u in thurgadin

[Jibartik]

alright ill /pick another zone

[Gwaihir]

Nietzsche's criticism rests upon literalist interpretation of cartoon Christianity forwarded by the protestant and catholic religion. Understand, foremost, that Christianity and it's Judaic roots describe the nature of human psychology, and it's internal application, along with a description of the false nature of this reality and spiritual system of Dharmic law in place. In the Hebrew, Abraham is spelt BRHM and is identical to Brahma in the Hindu faith; his wife Sarai (SR): Saraswati. Torah and Dharma are the same thing. Neither are a system of dogmatic legalism, they're a roadmap on how to unleash the force of creative will, of which, Jesus, is the ascended master, who conquered death itself.

The only point of contention, a Rosicrucian, or a hermetic, or a Freemasonic Jew, or an ancient Egyptian mystery school adherent would contend, is whether that last statement was true.

[Gwaihir]

15149
Pic very much related

[kabouter]

Sorry for rebooting this thread. But Mischief sounds toxic, I'll give it a try on Thornblade.
Just give me a guise when you see me ingame

[Jimjam]

My sub ran out, probably not renewing for the time being as I’m focusing on other aspects of life at the moment. I hope to return in the future!

[Byue]

Sorry for rebooting this thread. But Mischief sounds toxic, I'll give it a try on Thornblade.
Just give me a guise when you see me ingame

Send me your name in inbox.
I'll see what I can do.
And yeah, Mischief seems a lot more toxic than Thornblade from every stories I heard.
Obviously cannot confirm, I didn't play on mischief but I heard (unconfirmed) stories.


My sub ran out, probably not renewing for the time being as I’m focusing on other aspects of life at the moment. I hope to return in the future!

I wish I could say come back, but life has a lot more interesting quests and epic items to offer than this 20 years old game. I hope you feel good, soak in the sun, eat all the food, meet cuties and have a generally better summer than those of us still playing this.

[Jibartik]

kek.


I mean, I'm a very friendly person.
I give and I give and I give and I receive as much as I give.
Look, granted, being somebody in a video game is futile but you're the one who asked me to prove it, because you do not believe it because you probably put a lot of time and efforts into the game and are nowhere close to epic, or 60.

Then you just said whatever you're a loser if you are good at the game and anyway, at one point, you were so decked out and good that you consider you beat the game and how do you even reconcile these thoughts, bro?

Lune.

It's called formatting.
Trust me, I know this because I read a lot, airy text are more readable than stack of text.

Look.

Nietzsche is arguably most famous for his criticisms of traditional European moral commitments, together with their foundations in Christianity. This critique is very wide-ranging; it aims to undermine not just religious faith or philosophical moral theory, but also many central aspects of ordinary moral consciousness, some of which are difficult to imagine doing without (e.g., altruistic concern, guilt for wrongdoing, moral responsibility, the value of compassion, the demand for equal consideration of persons, and so on). By the time Nietzsche wrote, it was common for European intellectuals to assume that such ideas, however much inspiration they owed to the Christian intellectual and faith tradition, needed a rational grounding independent from particular sectarian or even ecumenical religious commitments. Then as now, most philosophers assumed that a secular vindication of morality would surely be forthcoming and would save the large majority of our standard commitments. Nietzsche found that confidence naïve, and he deployed all his rhetorical prowess to shock his readers out of complacency on this score. For example, his doubts about the viability of Christian underpinnings for moral and cultural life are not offered in a sunny spirit of anticipated liberation, nor does he present a sober but basically confident call to develop a secular understanding of morality; instead, he launches the famous, aggressive and paradoxical pronouncement that “God is dead” (GS 108, 125, 343). The idea is not so much that atheism is true—in GS 125, he depicts this pronouncement arriving as fresh news to a group of atheists—but instead that because “the belief in the Christian God has become unbelievable”, everything that was “built upon this faith, propped up by it, grown into it”, including “the whole of our European morality”, is destined for “collapse” (GS 343). Christianity no longer commands society-wide cultural allegiance as a framework grounding ethical commitments, and thus, a common basis for collective life that was supposed to have been immutable and invulnerable has turned out to be not only less stable than we assumed, but incomprehensibly mortal—and in fact, already lost. The response called for by such a turn of events is mourning and deep disorientation. Indeed, the case is even worse than that, according to Nietzsche. Not only do standard moral commitments lack a foundation we thought they had, but stripped of their veneer of unquestionable authority, they prove to have been not just baseless but positively harmful. Unfortunately, the moralization of our lives has insidiously attached itself to genuine psychological needs—some basic to our condition, others cultivated by the conditions of life under morality—so its corrosive effects cannot simply be removed without further psychological damage. Still worse, the damaging side of morality has implanted itself within us in the form of a genuine self-understanding, making it hard for us to imagine ourselves living any other way. Thus, Nietzsche argues, we are faced with a difficult, long term restoration project in which the most cherished aspects of our way of life must be ruthlessly investigated, dismantled, and then reconstructed in healthier form—all while we continue somehow to sail the ship of our common ethical life on the high seas. The most extensive development of this Nietzschean critique of morality appears in his late work On the Genealogy of Morality, which consists of three treatises, each devoted to the psychological examination of a central moral idea. In the First Treatise, Nietzsche takes up the idea that moral consciousness consists fundamentally in altruistic concern for others. He begins by observing a striking fact, namely, that this widespread conception of what morality is all about—while entirely commonsensical to us—is not the essence of any possible morality, but a historical innovation. To make the case for historical change, he identifies two patterns of ethical assessment, each associated with a basic pair of evaluative terms, a good/bad pattern and a good/evil pattern. Understood according to the good/bad pattern, the idea of goodness originated in social class privilege: the good were first understood to be those of the higher social order, but then eventually the idea of goodness was “internalized”—i.e., transferred from social class itself to traits of character and other personal excellences that were typically associated with the privileged caste (for example, the virtue of courage for a society with a privileged military class, or magnanimity for one with a wealthy elite, or truthfulness and (psychological) nobility for a culturally ambitious aristocracy; see GM I, 4). In such a system, goodness is associated with exclusive virtues. There is no thought that everyone should be excellent—the very idea makes no sense, since to be excellent is to be distinguished from the ordinary run of people. In that sense, good/bad valuation arises out of a “pathos of distance” (GM I, 2) expressing the superiority excellent people feel over ordinary ones, and it gives rise to a “noble morality” (BGE 260). Nietzsche shows rather convincingly that this pattern of assessment was dominant in ancient Mediterranean culture (the Homeric world, later Greek and Roman society, and even much of ancient philosophical ethics). The good/evil pattern of valuation is quite different. It focuses its negative evaluation (evil) on violations of the interests or well-being of others—and consequently its positive evaluation (good) on altruistic concern for their welfare. Such a morality needs to have universalistic pretensions: if it is to promote and protect the welfare of all, its restrictions and injunctions must apply to everyone equally. It is thereby especially amenable to ideas of basic human equality, starting from the thought that each person has an equal claim to moral consideration and respect. These are familiar ideas in the modern context—so familiar, indeed, that Nietzsche observes how easily we confuse them with “the moral manner of valuation as such” (GM Pref., 4)—but the universalist structure, altruistic sentiments, and egalitarian tendency of those values mark an obvious contrast with the valuation of exclusive virtues in the good/bad pattern. The contrast, together with the prior dominance of good/bad structured moralities, raises a straightforward historical question: What happened? How did we get from the widespread acceptance of good/bad valuation to the near universal dominance of good/evil thinking? Nietzsche’s famous answer is unflattering to our modern conception. He insists that the transformation was the result of a “slave revolt in morality” (GM I, 10; cf. BGE 260). The exact nature of this alleged revolt is a matter of ongoing scholarly controversy (in recent literature, see Bittner 1994; Reginster 1997; Migotti 1998; Ridley 1998; May 1999: 41–54; Leiter 2002: 193–222; Janaway 2007: 90–106, 223–9; Owen 2007: 78–89; Wallace 2007; Anderson 2011; Poellner 2011), but the broad outline is clear enough. People who suffered from oppression at the hands of the noble, excellent, (but uninhibited) people valorized by good/bad morality—and who were denied any effective recourse against them by relative powerlessness—developed a persistent, corrosive emotional pattern of resentful hatred against their enemies, which Nietzsche calls ressentiment. That emotion motivated the development of the new moral concept <evil>, purpose-designed for the moralistic condemnation of those enemies. (How conscious or unconscious—how “strategic” or not—this process is supposed to have been is one matter of scholarly controversy.) Afterward, via negation of the concept of evil, the new concept of goodness emerges, rooted in altruistic concern of a sort that would inhibit evil actions. Moralistic condemnation using these new values does little by itself to satisfy the motivating desire for revenge, but if the new way of thinking could spread, gaining more adherents and eventually influencing the evaluations even of the nobility, then the revenge might be impressive—indeed, “the most spiritual” form of revenge (GM I, 7; see also GM I, 10–11). For in that case, the revolt would accomplish a “radical revaluation” (GM I, 7) that would corrupt the very values that gave the noble way of life its character and made it seem admirable in the first place. For Nietzsche, then, our morality amounts to a vindictive effort to poison the happiness of the fortunate (GM III, 14), instead of a high-minded, dispassionate, and strictly rational concern for others. This can seem hard to accept, both as an account of how the valuation of altruistic concern originated and even more as a psychological explanation of the basis of altruism in modern moral subjects, who are far removed from the social conditions that figure in Nietzsche’s story. That said, Nietzsche offers two strands of evidence sufficient to give pause to an open minded reader. In the Christian context, he points to the surprising prevalence of what one might call the “brimstone, hellfire, and damnation diatribe” in Christian letters and sermons: Nietzsche cites at length a striking example from Tertullian (GM I, 15), but that example is the tip of a very large iceberg, and it is a troubling puzzle what this genre of “vengeful outbursts” (GM I, 16) is even doing within (what is supposed to be) a religion of love and forgiveness. Second, Nietzsche observes with confidence-shaking perspicacity how frequently indignant moralistic condemnation itself, whether arising in serious criminal or public matters or from more private personal interactions, can detach itself from any measured assessment of the wrong and devolve into a free-floating expression of vengeful resentment against some (real or imagined) perpetrator. The spirit of such condemnations is disturbingly often more in line with Nietzsche’s diagnosis of altruism than it is with our conventional (but possibly self-satisfied) moral self-understanding. The First Treatise does little, however, to suggest why inhabitants of a noble morality might be at all moved by such condemnations, generating a question about how the moral revaluation could have succeeded. Nothing internal to the nobles’ value system gives them any grounds for general altruistic concern or any reason to pay heed to the complaints of those whom they have already dismissed as contemptible. The Second Treatise, about guilt and bad conscience, offers some materials toward an answer to this puzzle. Nietzsche begins from the insight that guilt bears a close conceptual connection to the notion of debt. Just as a debtor’s failure to repay gives the creditor the right to seek alternative compensation (whether via some remedy spelled out in a contract, or less formally, through general social or legal sanctions), so a guilty party owes the victim some form of response to the violation, which serves as a kind of compensation for whatever harm was suffered. Nietzsche’s conjectural history of the “moralized” (GM II, 21) notion of guilt suggests that it developed through a transfer of this structure—which pairs each loss to some (punishment-involving) compensation—from the domain of material debt to a wider class of actions that violate some socially accepted norm. The really important conceptual transformation, however, is not the transfer itself, but an accompanying purification and internalization of the feeling of indebtedness, which connect the demand for compensation to a source of wrongful action that is supposed to be entirely within the agent’s control, and thereby attach a negative assessment to the guilty person’s basic sense of personal worth.


Is a lot more intimidating than


Nietzsche is arguably most famous for his criticisms of traditional European moral commitments, together with their foundations in Christianity. This critique is very wide-ranging; it aims to undermine not just religious faith or philosophical moral theory, but also many central aspects of ordinary moral consciousness, some of which are difficult to imagine doing without (e.g., altruistic concern, guilt for wrongdoing, moral responsibility, the value of compassion, the demand for equal consideration of persons, and so on).

By the time Nietzsche wrote, it was common for European intellectuals to assume that such ideas, however much inspiration they owed to the Christian intellectual and faith tradition, needed a rational grounding independent from particular sectarian or even ecumenical religious commitments. Then as now, most philosophers assumed that a secular vindication of morality would surely be forthcoming and would save the large majority of our standard commitments. Nietzsche found that confidence naïve, and he deployed all his rhetorical prowess to shock his readers out of complacency on this score. For example, his doubts about the viability of Christian underpinnings for moral and cultural life are not offered in a sunny spirit of anticipated liberation, nor does he present a sober but basically confident call to develop a secular understanding of morality; instead, he launches the famous, aggressive and paradoxical pronouncement that “God is dead” (GS 108, 125, 343). The idea is not so much that atheism is true—in GS 125, he depicts this pronouncement arriving as fresh news to a group of atheists—but instead that because “the belief in the Christian God has become unbelievable”, everything that was “built upon this faith, propped up by it, grown into it”, including “the whole of our European morality”, is destined for “collapse” (GS 343). Christianity no longer commands society-wide cultural allegiance as a framework grounding ethical commitments, and thus, a common basis for collective life that was supposed to have been immutable and invulnerable has turned out to be not only less stable than we assumed, but incomprehensibly mortal—and in fact, already lost. The response called for by such a turn of events is mourning and deep disorientation.

Indeed, the case is even worse than that, according to Nietzsche. Not only do standard moral commitments lack a foundation we thought they had, but stripped of their veneer of unquestionable authority, they prove to have been not just baseless but positively harmful. Unfortunately, the moralization of our lives has insidiously attached itself to genuine psychological needs—some basic to our condition, others cultivated by the conditions of life under morality—so its corrosive effects cannot simply be removed without further psychological damage. Still worse, the damaging side of morality has implanted itself within us in the form of a genuine self-understanding, making it hard for us to imagine ourselves living any other way. Thus, Nietzsche argues, we are faced with a difficult, long term restoration project in which the most cherished aspects of our way of life must be ruthlessly investigated, dismantled, and then reconstructed in healthier form—all while we continue somehow to sail the ship of our common ethical life on the high seas.

The most extensive development of this Nietzschean critique of morality appears in his late work On the Genealogy of Morality, which consists of three treatises, each devoted to the psychological examination of a central moral idea. In the First Treatise, Nietzsche takes up the idea that moral consciousness consists fundamentally in altruistic concern for others. He begins by observing a striking fact, namely, that this widespread conception of what morality is all about—while entirely commonsensical to us—is not the essence of any possible morality, but a historical innovation.

To make the case for historical change, he identifies two patterns of ethical assessment, each associated with a basic pair of evaluative terms, a good/bad pattern and a good/evil pattern. Understood according to the good/bad pattern, the idea of goodness originated in social class privilege: the good were first understood to be those of the higher social order, but then eventually the idea of goodness was “internalized”—i.e., transferred from social class itself to traits of character and other personal excellences that were typically associated with the privileged caste (for example, the virtue of courage for a society with a privileged military class, or magnanimity for one with a wealthy elite, or truthfulness and (psychological) nobility for a culturally ambitious aristocracy; see GM I, 4). In such a system, goodness is associated with exclusive virtues. There is no thought that everyone should be excellent—the very idea makes no sense, since to be excellent is to be distinguished from the ordinary run of people. In that sense, good/bad valuation arises out of a “pathos of distance” (GM I, 2) expressing the superiority excellent people feel over ordinary ones, and it gives rise to a “noble morality” (BGE 260). Nietzsche shows rather convincingly that this pattern of assessment was dominant in ancient Mediterranean culture (the Homeric world, later Greek and Roman society, and even much of ancient philosophical ethics).

The good/evil pattern of valuation is quite different. It focuses its negative evaluation (evil) on violations of the interests or well-being of others—and consequently its positive evaluation (good) on altruistic concern for their welfare. Such a morality needs to have universalistic pretensions: if it is to promote and protect the welfare of all, its restrictions and injunctions must apply to everyone equally. It is thereby especially amenable to ideas of basic human equality, starting from the thought that each person has an equal claim to moral consideration and respect. These are familiar ideas in the modern context—so familiar, indeed, that Nietzsche observes how easily we confuse them with “the moral manner of valuation as such” (GM Pref., 4)—but the universalist structure, altruistic sentiments, and egalitarian tendency of those values mark an obvious contrast with the valuation of exclusive virtues in the good/bad pattern. The contrast, together with the prior dominance of good/bad structured moralities, raises a straightforward historical question: What happened? How did we get from the widespread acceptance of good/bad valuation to the near universal dominance of good/evil thinking?

Nietzsche’s famous answer is unflattering to our modern conception. He insists that the transformation was the result of a “slave revolt in morality” (GM I, 10; cf. BGE 260). The exact nature of this alleged revolt is a matter of ongoing scholarly controversy (in recent literature, see Bittner 1994; Reginster 1997; Migotti 1998; Ridley 1998; May 1999: 41–54; Leiter 2002: 193–222; Janaway 2007: 90–106, 223–9; Owen 2007: 78–89; Wallace 2007; Anderson 2011; Poellner 2011), but the broad outline is clear enough. People who suffered from oppression at the hands of the noble, excellent, (but uninhibited) people valorized by good/bad morality—and who were denied any effective recourse against them by relative powerlessness—developed a persistent, corrosive emotional pattern of resentful hatred against their enemies, which Nietzsche calls ressentiment. That emotion motivated the development of the new moral concept <evil>, purpose-designed for the moralistic condemnation of those enemies. (How conscious or unconscious—how “strategic” or not—this process is supposed to have been is one matter of scholarly controversy.) Afterward, via negation of the concept of evil, the new concept of goodness emerges, rooted in altruistic concern of a sort that would inhibit evil actions. Moralistic condemnation using these new values does little by itself to satisfy the motivating desire for revenge, but if the new way of thinking could spread, gaining more adherents and eventually influencing the evaluations even of the nobility, then the revenge might be impressive—indeed, “the most spiritual” form of revenge (GM I, 7; see also GM I, 10–11). For in that case, the revolt would accomplish a “radical revaluation” (GM I, 7) that would corrupt the very values that gave the noble way of life its character and made it seem admirable in the first place.

For Nietzsche, then, our morality amounts to a vindictive effort to poison the happiness of the fortunate (GM III, 14), instead of a high-minded, dispassionate, and strictly rational concern for others. This can seem hard to accept, both as an account of how the valuation of altruistic concern originated and even more as a psychological explanation of the basis of altruism in modern moral subjects, who are far removed from the social conditions that figure in Nietzsche’s story. That said, Nietzsche offers two strands of evidence sufficient to give pause to an open minded reader. In the Christian context, he points to the surprising prevalence of what one might call the “brimstone, hellfire, and damnation diatribe” in Christian letters and sermons: Nietzsche cites at length a striking example from Tertullian (GM I, 15), but that example is the tip of a very large iceberg, and it is a troubling puzzle what this genre of “vengeful outbursts” (GM I, 16) is even doing within (what is supposed to be) a religion of love and forgiveness. Second, Nietzsche observes with confidence-shaking perspicacity how frequently indignant moralistic condemnation itself, whether arising in serious criminal or public matters or from more private personal interactions, can detach itself from any measured assessment of the wrong and devolve into a free-floating expression of vengeful resentment against some (real or imagined) perpetrator. The spirit of such condemnations is disturbingly often more in line with Nietzsche’s diagnosis of altruism than it is with our conventional (but possibly self-satisfied) moral self-understanding.

The First Treatise does little, however, to suggest why inhabitants of a noble morality might be at all moved by such condemnations, generating a question about how the moral revaluation could have succeeded. Nothing internal to the nobles’ value system gives them any grounds for general altruistic concern or any reason to pay heed to the complaints of those whom they have already dismissed as contemptible. The Second Treatise, about guilt and bad conscience, offers some materials toward an answer to this puzzle.

Nietzsche begins from the insight that guilt bears a close conceptual connection to the notion of debt. Just as a debtor’s failure to repay gives the creditor the right to seek alternative compensation (whether via some remedy spelled out in a contract, or less formally, through general social or legal sanctions), so a guilty party owes the victim some form of response to the violation, which serves as a kind of compensation for whatever harm was suffered. Nietzsche’s conjectural history of the “moralized” (GM II, 21) notion of guilt suggests that it developed through a transfer of this structure—which pairs each loss to some (punishment-involving) compensation—from the domain of material debt to a wider class of actions that violate some socially accepted norm. The really important conceptual transformation, however, is not the transfer itself, but an accompanying purification and internalization of the feeling of indebtedness, which connect the demand for compensation to a source of wrongful action that is supposed to be entirely within the agent’s control, and thereby attach a negative assessment to the guilty person’s basic sense of personal worth.



And all I did was space out each paragraph.
Welcome to grade 6.

[Evia]

Yowza

[Byue]

Lune asked me to do a thing.
I did the thing.
Can't please everybody.

[kabouter]

Send me your name in inbox.
I'll see what I can do.
And yeah, Mischief seems a lot more toxic than Thornblade from every stories I heard.
Obviously cannot confirm, I didn't play on mischief but I heard (unconfirmed) stories.


Ah I was just joking about the guise. Part of the fun of playing this game is slowly upgrading/acquiring. I just signed up today got to level 2 and people have already given me some gear (parcel system).

Love the advanced loot system btw. If you see me ingame just say hi (kabouter)

[imperiouskitten]

still enjoying Mischief. competition is actually kinda low. been farming out a lot of kronos, those interconvert freely with bitcoin right ?

[kabouter]

still enjoying Mischief. competition is actually kinda low. been farming out a lot of kronos, those interconvert freely with bitcoin right ?

I'm still new to kronos, but I saw quite some items being offered for kronos. If I get it correctly you buy a kronos for $15 and can trade it ingame with other characters.

Am I right to assume that there is a small minority of players that bring these into the economy and that most other players are basically playing for free by selling items for kronos?

And any tips for low level farms for pp? Bone chips and spider silk worth anything here?

[Evia]

Kronos are how you make money imho. I spent 5 casual hrs flipping just krono in the tunnel yesterday and made 4kr and 3k plat profit just working those. I'd buy em up anytime I saw them being sold for 6000-6500, and immediately resell them for 7k. I did this over and over again for mindless profit while watching the kids. If you ever have enough Plat for a krono I'd always suggest buying it. Krono will constantly go up everyday so it's like a stock investment that guarantees profit.

[Jibartik]

join faceless and make 10k a raid :) Wait you are in faceless!

I finally know all the drama and faceless is the seal team of TLP

Thornblades pop is based on "I didnt want to play on same server as faceless"

YOU HAVE MY AXE AND IM READY TO RIDE COATAILS TO THE MOON!

[Byue]

join faceless and make 10k a raid :) Wait you are in faceless!

I finally know all the drama and faceless is the seal team of TLP

Thornblades pop is based on "I didnt want to play on same server as faceless"

YOU HAVE MY AXE AND IM READY TO RIDE COATAILS TO THE MOON!

I mean, I like how you always have unaltered truth and you're so in the know and never wrong but like, I never even played TLP (ok, yes a long time ago but I didn't even remember that) and I joined thornblade because the queue was less long.

Only reason.
I also thin my guild is the faceless of our server, they been around.


Also guys I know I said I play on Thornblade but that's not a valid reason to DDoS my server. :'(

[Jibartik]

Did I say your name narcissist? I was referring to the TLP regulars, not why some emu loser randomly picked.

[Byue]

Did I say your name narcissist? I was referring to the TLP regulars, not why some emu loser randomly picked.

actually you said, and I will quote you there: Thornblades pop is based on "I didnt want to play on same server as faceless"

So, that sort of includes everyone.

but keep insulting me because you are wrong.

[Jibartik]

Yeah maggot see your name there? No. You're a non factor in that equation.

It also doesn't say 'everyone is on because', learn vocabulary.

[Byue]

bro re you for real this detached from reality that suddenly Thornblade's population mean something else than you know, thornblade's population?

You did not specifically left me out, or only included the one who played before, read again.

Like you don't even have to be a dick just, oh, I meant that and end it there, not I wrote this when it is demonstrable false like ok wow I get it that you love trump wtf this is such an awkward conversation.

You're the type to say you did not say this when we have you on tape this is weird.

[kabouter]

Kronos are how you make money imho. I spent 5 casual hrs flipping just krono in the tunnel yesterday and made 4kr and 3k plat profit just working those. I'd buy em up anytime I saw them being sold for 6000-6500, and immediately resell them for 7k. I did this over and over again for mindless profit while watching the kids. If you ever have enough Plat for a krono I'd always suggest buying it. Krono will constantly go up everyday so it's like a stock investment that guarantees profit.

Ok will keep an eye out for it. So far items seem to be in abundance though, random people have gifted me items (even have 2 green silken drapes...) and that was all within a day (150pp, full raw silk set, +5int head gear), so I'm just surprised there are still people willing to pay top dollar for ingame items.

I must say I've had fun I played maybe 4 hours yesterday and got to level 10. I think if I would have been grouping all the way it would have been faster because there definitely seems to be bonus xp for grouping.

Now off to find some of those rare mobs for loot :).

[Byue]

Observations: you level much faster grouped, than not.
I thought it was P99, the first day of the server and grinded to lvl 10, alone.
My friend, who grouped, played the same amount... was level 21.

GROUP UP! It's worth it to have an afk person in the group.


Trade platinum to krono as soon as you can.
Because platinum is plat but krono is krono and platinum and the price keep going up.

As far as items goes:
you are correct, very few people pay real money for them, unless it is top items and even then, the value is dropping fast. I got server first fungi, which I sold for 10kr. Now? They sell for 1kr but I think comes Velious, everyone will have learned their lessons. I remember when server started, I sold a Peal Kedge Totem for 8kr because everyone thought it would be rare, like the original. Turns out: it wasn't.
Came Kunark and people were a lot more prudent and I don't think anyone will buy items with kr comes velious unless it's a really rare item/ they really want it.

Be nice!
Because everyone and their mom have alts and the gear is so plentiful, you will receive gifts. Like I got the 2x 40 slots and one of those 40 slots is filled high with higher end items that I cannot even sell for the life of me and I'm thinking about going to Greater Faydark and make people happy because I need the room.
(although I think you are a int caster, so I am saving those for you!)

With everything that I've said, the items that are worth a lot are the items that are out of the way. Like a goblin gazughi ring would fetch a fair price because it drops off a low level mob and you would have to hunt a rare that level to get it and this means getting out of the exp path. Rares seems to have a small range, like +/- 3 of the original mob to drop the items. Not every lvl 56 rares will be able to drop a fungi, either, you will learn out the loot table with everyone, though. This week is 76% bonus exp, 76% bonus rares apparition and 76% bonus to reputation gains. Welcome!



As always, this is a game... have fun! Tae breaks, drink water and enjoy the summer!

[Jibartik]

byue talking about trump in a mischief thornblade thread jesus christ.

[Byue]

byue talking about trump in a mischief thornblade thread jesus christ.

Jibardick: all of you sucks!

me: I don't suck.

Jibardick: I didn't include you in my all! learn to read!

[Jibartik]

You want to devote a whole page to you misunderstanding a post? Fill the page with fuck you's and suck your dicks? Spam about trump?

[Byue]

Dude this is absolutely bat shit crazy what the fuck is happening right now are you ok?


Like you are missing stuff, please read.
And follow.

And can you please smash your head on top of a very long needle?

[Jibartik]

What's happening is you devoted a whole page to your narcissism.

[Byue]

What's happening is you devoted a whole page to your narcissism.

Dude.
Can you please stop?

Like what the actual fuck is this shit?

You go all berserk with thornblade's pop and then I'm like well I'm thornblade's pop an that wasn't me and you go I DIDN'T INCLUDE YOU MAGGOT and I'm like well the English language agrees with me and you then write this shit and is this real?

Are you really this detached from reality, this fucking adamantly stupid and want to fight for everyone to know this?


You are a turd.
If you ever thirsty, remind me to piss on your face.

I knew pedophiles were dumb but you are very dumb.

[Jibartik]

I made a non sequitur about thornblade/mischife drama and you've made 11 posts about it so far.

Also they are made up of dialogue like this:


Like what the actual fuck is this shit?

Are you really this fucking adamantly stupid a

You are a turd.

remind me to piss on your face.

I knew pedophiles were dumb but you are very dumb.

[Byue]

Thornblades pop is based on "I didnt want to play on same server as faceless"



You are a such a lying choade.
What you did is say what I quoted.
I said I didn't know what Faceless was and still joined Thornblade and you said.

Yeah maggot see your name there? No. You're a non factor in that equation.

It also doesn't say 'everyone is on because', learn vocabulary.

To which I reply that in the English language, I am 100% part of Thornblade's pop.

To which you reply:

Did I say your name narcissist? I was referring to the TLP regulars, not why some emu loser randomly picked.


And I do not know how to teach you basic English, but if I say Americans, I mean Americans and not like, whites only like you. In that same breath, you could admit you were wrong but you double down and call me narcissist instead of just correcting your shit.

You got mad issues bro.
Like you're the kind of dude who is in heavy rain and telling people on facebook what a beautiful day at the beach.

A fucking lying piece of shit who doesn't know when to back out and just say, "I was wrong".


You are really a show.
The kind of show who gets cancelled because it's shit.
Fuck you.

Also, you are 100% confirmed pedophile. This is Jibardick, everyone. (https://publicsite.dps.texas.gov/SexOffenderRegistry/Search/Rapsheet/Index?sid=06430738&v=old&x=5475812d-94a6-4038-ad74-a52cf19f5771)

[Jibartik]

praise be I have slain the vamps, and have become the vamp.

https://i.imgur.com/CFVMfJK.png

[imperiouskitten]

grats but ur lvl 56 lmao and u wiped our grp with adds that one time cuz u got scared to die, little pussy. my gear is also swaggier and im taller than you.

i am taking a break because leveling is tiring and i need my netflix and chill. but i'm coming for ur swords this week.

ding 60. the queen's coming but more like empress

[imperiouskitten]

Faceless does suck btw but i haven't pulled my head out of the game to see all the meta-talk. Are server pops low? It's my first TLP. How could you abandon Mischief for such a gayly named server as " Thornblade"

[Jibartik]

grats but ur lvl 56 lmao and u wiped our grp with adds that one time

the queen's coming but more like empress

together we will be the vamp king and queen.

https://i.imgur.com/XovRoRe.png

https://i.imgur.com/ghkGbwT.png

[imperiouskitten]

now that you can stack dots, mobs will be perma epic proc'd between us :O

there's only one other ranger in my guild, so i'm hopeful for quick results. carrying a 2-hander around is so cringe

[Jibartik]

now that you can stack dots, mobs will be perma epic proc'd between us :O

there's only one other ranger in my guild, so i'm hopeful for quick results. carrying a 2-hander around is so cringe

shattered emeralds drop off of bixies and firebeetles on this server wont be long lol

[Evia]

Congrats on epics! Sick look with guise. Working on mine now that I hit 60 and 99%.

[Byue]

shattered emeralds drop off of bixies and firebeetles on this server wont be long lol

I means even you could get your epic, you should be happy.
Welfare is the only way you would get those.

[Jibartik]

I got my epic.


a few pages later...


I am one kill away from my epic.


lyin about yours on a welfare server lol

[imperiouskitten]

u can stop fighting - u both lose, i am supreme and only lack my epic cuz i leveled first (aka thje responsible thing)

jibartik is scared of dying so if u let his hp get low he runs around and agro's adds instead of just eating it and accepting a rez he wipes the group. so he obviously needs a grown up like me to make fun of that.

also now i only need swirling sphere of color so we almost done

[Lune]

Found out my guild is a bunch of weird norweigien euros who raid during the daytime EST so I have to find a new one. Also the leader is a maximum cringe nolifer with a box army following him around and definitely going to bank all the guild's drops and use it to buy personal kronos for his box army. Got my shattered emerald of corruption tho

Honestly Woodsman's Staff parses about the same as epics so it's not a huge priority. Dual wielding in general is pretty shit til you have some of those really nice ratio velious weps or a wurmslayer

[Jibartik]

u can stop fighting - u both lose, i am supreme and only lack my epic cuz i leveled first (aka thje responsible thing)

jibartik is scared of dying so if u let his hp get low he runs around and agro's adds instead of just eating it and accepting a rez he wipes the group. so he obviously needs a grown up like me to make fun of that.

also now i only need swirling sphere of color so we almost done

well you still havent figured out what afk means :D

[Gustoo]

Woodsmans staff is such a righteous weapon. It's just so correct that there is a 2hb for all normal life rangers that want to win at the game.

You whip out your swarm caller, get some slow going, whip out the woodsmans and smash their face in. So great.

[Jibartik]

vamps only use blades though :o

[imperiouskitten]

well you still havent figured out what afk means :D

more like i wONT STAND for afk lazy bones

[Jimjam]

Found out my guild is a bunch of weird norweigien euros who raid during the daytime EST so I have to find a new one. Also the leader is a maximum cringe nolifer with a box army following him around and definitely going to bank all the guild's drops and use it to buy personal kronos for his box army. Got my shattered emerald of corruption tho

Honestly Woodsman's Staff parses about the same as epics so it's not a huge priority. Dual wielding in general is pretty shit til you have some of those really nice ratio velious weps or a wurmslayer

I really didn’t like when they revamped the melee damage calculations.

[Evia]

Lune what's your characters name on Mischief? You're playing a ranger too eh? Nice! We should get a p99 adventure going on somewhere with all those playing. I think it's just Lune and Jibartik though on Mischief besides me? Atleast that's what it's looking like.

[Jibartik]

we all rolled ranger in honor of recon joe

[Lune]

Lune what's your characters name on Mischief? You're playing a ranger too eh? Nice! We should get a p99 adventure going on somewhere with all those playing. I think it's just Lune and Jibartik though on Mischief besides me? Atleast that's what it's looking like.

Valessar. I'm online a bit less this week as I'm focusing on some work stuff but I'm sure I'll get back into it in a few days. Always down to do fun stuff though.

[imperiouskitten]

u can send me msgs too :) maybe if i never poast my name nobody will flip at me ingame :) since im basically nice, except sometimes to jibartik (sry) and im geared way more tankier than him by 100x

[Evia]

u can send me msgs too :) maybe if i never poast my name nobody will flip at me ingame :) since im basically nice, except sometimes to jibartik (sry) and im geared way more tankier than him by 100x

Oh shit I thought you were on thornblade?

[Jibartik]

ot on mischife

https://i.imgur.com/73gUzj3.png

[imperiouskitten]

im far left believe it or not

and yes evia godbless. im like the rottweiler ranger to jibartik's, um. smaller dog

[bubur]

i love these servers

honestly random loot has been spoiling me. i dont know if i can go back

ask me in approx 9 months time tho i prolly will play again

[Mead]

My buddy asked me to join him, so I'm tooling around on Mischief with my lowbie monk. Between work and two upcoming vacations, I won't be on a whole lot. But, I'm in there. It won't be hard to find who I am in game.

[starkind]

kinda surprised jibartik is playing a ranger

(got a healer merc kurrently in fortress mechanotus deep in the junkkyard mercin it up with a wiz, i think i could beam kite that area 12+mobs AoE) :p

[starkind]

i had a 44K crit lol but ususually its for 18-24k didnt use my AAs

[Jibartik]

https://i.imgur.com/XtYjowH.png

this is a live meme

[Gustoo]

https://i.imgur.com/XtYjowH.png

this is a live meme

Is it really? Cool.

Random loot sounds really fun for casual enjoyment of the game. Imagine that. It also has benefit of item loot being a no fucking brainer. Play the game win items lose items play the game play the game have fun.

[Jibartik]

It's really great, it'd work really well on p99

I traveled to kerra just to level there, and I got great loot, exp, and it was amazing.

Cant check off all 3 boxes on p99 at kerra :o

It creates the same mystery that is ruined on p99 where we know every answer to every question.

Instead of going to the same camps over and over and over you think about things like, "hey where would be a fun place to explore tonight"

Def cant say that on p99 or any other TLP haha

My fave thign about Pve everquest is knowing hw to min max all the rare spawns and exp... Mischife still allows your knowledge of rare NPC's to be of value, because knowing where the rares are is a + and then also knowing where there are a few rares in 1 pull spot is a ++ and yeah..

It's like playing zelda the 2nd quest on NES

[bubur]

server not work halp

[Jibartik]

Vamp king and wurm queen rare spawns of the new castle mischief.

https://i.imgur.com/xrOJhDv.png

[imperiouskitten]

looking real good ranger ;)

[Mead]

Mead is climbing up the ranks. Hit 51 and got a lot of my epic done already. Im really enjoying these loot rules. The twink game is on point right now. Really curios to see what happens with this droppable velios raid loot.

[Evia]

Woot glad to see everyone having a good time! I’m trying to lvl up a Paladin box to play with my epic bard but I’m feeling some burnout. Hoping I can get him to at least the 50s by velious.

[Mead]

I’m either going shaman (again) to go with my monk or wizard for travel and easy in or oog deeps.

[Evia]

Raided VP for the first time last night with Jibartik! it was a good time! Our guild does loot a very interesting way where they auction all the items off and then split and send payments of platinum to all who attended in the parcel (mail) system. It's like getting paid to raid! plus you can bid on all the stuff that drops if you want as well. It's really awesome! Especially on a free trade server. Enjoying the ride right now but it's kind of a bummer that come Gates and Omens it'll start being abandoned for the next hot new tlp.

[Tewaz]

Man I hope they roll another one of these servers, I am pumped to play.

[Evia]

Man I hope they roll another one of these servers, I am pumped to play.

It's not too late man! We're stuck at 60 for like 3 and a half more months. You can easily catch up and get ready to experience everything p99 doesn't offer just in time! Luclin and pop were meh expansions to me as a casual but I have zero experience with any of the raids in that era, so I'm really looking forward to it! If you decide to try it out send me a tell and I'll parcel you some starter gears and spell cash!

[Jibartik]

mischife naming thread cross over

https://i.imgur.com/ECbojV7.png

[imperiouskitten]

mischife naming thread cross over

https://i.imgur.com/ECbojV7.png

yumm love a good taut azn body with the dainty lil thang ;) wassup girl

[Castle2.0]

Live TLP is always a joke. How many iterations do you need to figure this one out?

I did Fippy for a few weeks. That was all it took. 10+ years since and I haven't played a single TLP.

[Jibartik]

P99 wins!
(http://noproblo.dayjo.org/ZeldaSounds/LTTP/LTTP_ItemFanfare.wav)
https://i.imgur.com/06Ckh5J.png

[Tewaz]

Human Ranger with that robe may me the peak alpha of classic EQ.

[imperiouskitten]

gratssssss nice speed

[imperiouskitten]

https://i.imgur.com/DN5Jgnw.png

[bubur]

congrats brothers and sisters

consider thornblade tho