Objection : Server rez "Rules"

[completepts]

Short story :

Lvl 60 logged out, died while Linkdead.

Logged back in next day, ^ discovered I died, lost level 60 and went to get a rez immediately. Bugged corpse "too old to be resurrected".

??? Began a petition. Guide messaged me "we don't rez for that." Even though this is clearly a client/server issue.

What gives? At this point I'm just complaining sure, but now I get to waste hours correcting a game issue. This is ridiculous. Happen to anyone else?

[kitao]

First - that sucks.

Second - A guy I know did that and went from 60-> low 50’s. Maybe consider only the one lucky? .

[Robeazy]

First - that sucks.

Second - A guy I know did that and went from 60-> low 50’s. Maybe consider only the one lucky? .

[Savazuul]

Please keep in mind that you're playing a 20 year old game on a set of servers that goes out of it's way to recreate the "classic experience" as a core tenet of it's mission. Even going as far as to recreate or "unfix" bugs in the EQEMU project to keep true to the Classic timeline.

Dying and xp loss to things beyond our control is part of that classic experience you're in this game for.

As far as what merits or does not merit a GM rez, also keep in mind that the reason we are so restrictive on what sort of events/incidents warrant a rez is because it's not always very clearly a server issue. Outside of server-wide lag spikes or crashes, it is incredibly difficult to determine what caused a death. Without some sort of definitive proof, we err on the side of that classic experience where the death penalty is harsh, and that's what we all knew going into playing a 20 year old game.

[completepts]

While all of us know and appreciate we're playing a 20 year old hardcore game, this is bogus rationale.

It would be clearly noted in logs what killed the LD level 60 char at the WC rings. YOU have the definite proof, on your end (server/client). I'd also like to point out during our online discussion you mentioned this happens often, and what I stated above is true. So "we don't rez for that" and your response to the aforementioned problem on the server does not apply. This aspect of a bug is not legacy or original content, seems more like laziness and being unwilling to help fix a client issue honestly.

Maybe consider changing the rule on this one thing. Since others have experienced it?




Please keep in mind that you're playing a 20 year old game on a set of servers that goes out of it's way to recreate the "classic experience" as a core tenet of it's mission. Even going as far as to recreate or "unfix" bugs in the EQEMU project to keep true to the Classic timeline.

Dying and xp loss to things beyond our control is part of that classic experience you're in this game for.

As far as what merits or does not merit a GM rez, also keep in mind that the reason we are so restrictive on what sort of events/incidents warrant a rez is because it's not always very clearly a server issue. Outside of server-wide lag spikes or crashes, it is incredibly difficult to determine what caused a death. Without some sort of definitive proof, we err on the side of that classic experience where the death penalty is harsh, and that's what we all knew going into playing a 20 year old game.

[Evia]

Look at it this way, you get to hit max lvl twice!

[Moerne]

Sounds classic to me.

>Next, the guide rezz. NOBODY over level 20 should be confused or surprised by the incredibly limited powers a guide has. I can rezz you if 1) You zoned into lava, 2) Died due to Verant crashing (not you and your dial up, VERANT), and 3) Died to a confirmed bug. Otherwise, I can’t do it. I would love to, but I can’t.

https://eatingbees.wordpress.com/the-wayback-machine/try-being-a-guide-you/

[Videri]

We must not make additional work for the all-volunteer staff. One must remember this in all things on P99.

Some would make a joke about asking for your money back.

If you had time to level a character to 60, you have time to do a little more grinding. The solution to this error, even though it is not your fault, is to go play some EverQuest.

[Moerne]

Sounds completely classic to me. From a well known rant posted by a guide back in the day:

Next, the guide rezz. NOBODY over level 20 should be confused or surprised by the incredibly limited powers a guide has. I can rezz you if 1) You zoned into lava, 2) Died due to Verant crashing (not you and your dial up, VERANT), and 3) Died to a confirmed bug. Otherwise, I can’t do it. I would love to, but I can’t.

https://eatingbees.wordpress.com/the-wayback-machine/try-being-a-guide-you/

[Savazuul]

It would be clearly noted in logs what killed the LD level 60 char at the WC rings.

It would?

Problem number one, you're presuming facts with zero evidence.

Problem number two, when you /q out of the game, strange and unexplained stuff can occur. No one can know for sure what happened because you didn't camp out, and no one saw it.

All of the plausible explanations I discussed with you are related to the /q mechanism. All of which are classic, and none of which are bugs. You decided you didn't like this aspect of the game, and classified it as a bug on your own.

Next time, /camp. Problem solved.

[khandman]

The correct way to log out will be to sit and click on the Camp button. This is the safest and best way to go about doing it as for those 30 seconds you will be present to react to any danger that may pop up.

If you instead typed in /Q or /LD, then you are still vulnerable for the time it would take for a Camp to run it's course, and if you have chosen to perform a /Q or /LD in an unsafe spot, then what you have experienced will be a risk that could have been avoided.

Edit : /q isn't a log out mechanism, it's a client closure mechanism. No idea what exactly /ld would have originally been intended for, but the effects are very similar to the /q

[Fammaden]

The correct way to log out will be to sit and click on the Camp button. This is the safest and best way to go about doing it as for those 30 seconds you will be present to react to any danger that may pop up.

If you instead typed in /Q or /LD, then you are still vulnerable for the time it would take for a Camp to run it's course, and if you have chosen to perform a /Q or /LD in an unsafe spot, then what you have experienced will be a risk that could have been avoided.

Edit : /q isn't a log out mechanism, it's a client closure mechanism. No idea what exactly /ld would have originally been intended for, but the effects are very similar to the /q

Exactly this, you brought it on yourself with your impatience.

[Nexii]

No it hasn't happened to me. I wouldn't expect a rez from a guide or GM because I was too impatient to log out of character select.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

When you forceably disconnect a game client from a game server without telling the server you are doing so (/q, restart your computer, force close, etc.), the server doesn't know what happened because you didn't send it a message before you quit. Do not assume programs can always send out a message before they close.

That is why there is no information on the server side to determine what happened. The server simply noticed you are not sending back data packets, and it puts you into the linkdead state until you either start sending packets again, or the linkdead timeout occurs and the server kicks you. That is why /q or other forceable disconnects are dangerous, because you will still be logged into the server for the timeout period until it kicks you.

This is why /camp exists. When you camp and go back to character select, you send a message to the server telling it you are logging out. If you had camped alive and saw your character was dead later, that would be visible to the GMs, as they have the log of you camping due to the message being sent to the server (assuming they log that).

EDIT: For a bit more clarity, /q doesnt send a logout message to the server for gameplay balancing reasons. This is why camping takes 30 seconds. EQ would be too easy if you could log out at any time. This is because you could log out to prevent death, for example. Just pull mobs to a safe location, and logout right before you die. Then wait a few minutes for the mobs to path back. /q is mimicing a computer crash, force close, etc., so they file it under that same umbrella of a client disconnect that couldn't send a message, such as a computer reset.

[Twochain]

Please keep in mind that you're playing a 20 year old game on a set of servers that goes out of it's way to recreate the "classic experience" as a core tenet of it's mission. Even going as far as to recreate or "unfix" bugs in the EQEMU project to keep true to the Classic timeline.

Dying and xp loss to things beyond our control is part of that classic experience you're in this game for.

As far as what merits or does not merit a GM rez, also keep in mind that the reason we are so restrictive on what sort of events/incidents warrant a rez is because it's not always very clearly a server issue. Outside of server-wide lag spikes or crashes, it is incredibly difficult to determine what caused a death. Without some sort of definitive proof, we err on the side of that classic experience where the death penalty is harsh, and that's what we all knew going into playing a 20 year old game.


Yeah, OP keep in mind that at the very least, GM's here are VERY fast and VERY liberal about body/items recovery from rotted corpses.

"The customer service staff (GMs and Guides) will not assist players in any way in regards to this zone.
This includes help for issues such as unrecoverable corpses (see your local Necromancer),
or characters finding themselves stuck (see your local Magician), bugs, etc.
- Gordon "

Imagine them dropping the end game raid zone and our staff just saying "Do not contact us if you can't get your body for any reason"

[Pootle]

It would be clearly noted in logs what killed the LD level 60 char at the WC rings.

Why are you using /q at WC rings? just camp properly.

[Jontheripper]

Ctrl+s to sit
Ctrl+x to initiate camp
/ex to exit out of the client so you're not sitting in character select

Its the best of both worlds and really the only way to quit for the night imho

[strongNpretty]

Just get back to grinding man.. what's the problem here?

[Jimjam]

/quit - Immediately exits the game. However, when you exit in this manner, your character has not 'camped out' in the
proper fashion, and he or she will remain in the game world for a short period after you have quit. Your character will
be under the control of the server, and may very well die while you are not there to tell it what to do. So only use this
command when you are in a rush to leave the game or are in an in-game situation that you can't get out of with the standard
sit and camp method. The risk you take when using this shortcut to exit the game is all yours.


May I suggest using

/camp server

And

/camp desktop

They log your character out to server select and desktop. They are both good.


It would?

Problem number one, you're presuming facts with zero evidence.

Problem number two, when you /q out of the game, strange and unexplained stuff can occur. No one can know for sure what happened because you didn't camp out, and no one saw it.

All of the plausible explanations I discussed with you are related to the /q mechanism. All of which are classic, and none of which are bugs. You decided you didn't like this aspect of the game, and classified it as a bug on your own.

Next time, /camp. Problem solved.

In fairness, sometimes when you attempt to camp after the client finishes the count down it crashes and you are treated as link dead instead of being straight up removed from the game.

[Synphul]

In fairness, sometimes when you attempt to camp after the client finishes the count down it crashes and you are treated as link dead instead of being straight up removed from the game.

This happens to me occasionally, but it's pretty rare. The best is when I go to log in from the character select screen and instead of going into the game the client freezes, but it still puts me in the game linkdead so I have to wait for the active character timer. :rolleyes: I can't say it's ever gotten me killed, though.

I'm a /camp desktop person.

[Toxigen]

May I suggest using

/camp server

And

/camp desktop

They log your character out to server select and desktop. They are both good.

.

TIL there is a different way to /camp.

Been playing EQ on P99 for the better part 7 years.

What a wonderful day.

[Master Roshi]

/camp desktop when you are done for the day, if you're not FD, don't /q unless you're in a bank or somewhere 100% safe, and even then, shit can happen.

[completepts]

Thanks for the info! Learned a lot. Plus the other ways to camp is very helpful.

To get critical of me demanding "proof" and "evidence" I died during a crash is ridiculous- why even ask me if you refused to help or educate me, up front? I learned for certain better than to petition again for this type of thing, no doubt. But to the ones who replied with all the helpful info, much appreciated!



When you forceably disconnect a game client from a game server without telling the server you are doing so (/q, restart your computer, force close, etc.), the server doesn't know what happened because you didn't send it a message before you quit. Do not assume programs can always send out a message before they close.

That is why there is no information on the server side to determine what happened. The server simply noticed you are not sending back data packets, and it puts you into the linkdead state until you either start sending packets again, or the linkdead timeout occurs and the server kicks you. That is why /q or other forceable disconnects are dangerous, because you will still be logged into the server for the timeout period until it kicks you.

This is why /camp exists. When you camp and go back to character select, you send a message to the server telling it you are logging out. If you had camped alive and saw your character was dead later, that would be visible to the GMs, as they have the log of you camping due to the message being sent to the server (assuming they log that).

EDIT: For a bit more clarity, /q doesnt send a logout message to the server for gameplay balancing reasons. This is why camping takes 30 seconds. EQ would be too easy if you could log out at any time. This is because you could log out to prevent death, for example. Just pull mobs to a safe location, and logout right before you die. Then wait a few minutes for the mobs to path back. /q is mimicing a computer crash, force close, etc., so they file it under that same umbrella of a client disconnect that couldn't send a message, such as a computer reset.

[Sinbillibnis]

To get critical of me demanding "proof" and "evidence" I died during a crash is ridiculous- why even ask me if you refused to help or educate me, up front?

Calm down Karen.

To bitch at and about volunteer staff who support the community and don't owe you anything is entitled af. I hate to assume, but I hope you're playing this 20 year old game because you enjoy it. If you enjoy it, hopefully playing it isn't a waste of time.

[Katinna]

I think the OP's issue is not so much that he died.. but that the corpse was bugged to have no rez timer even tho he was offline the entire time..

[starkind]

Plz join us in rnf OP.

Or maybe even OT.

[Jontheripper]

Calm down Karen.

To bitch at and about volunteer staff who support the community and don't owe you anything is entitled af. I hate to assume, but I hope you're playing this 20 year old game because you enjoy it. If you enjoy it, hopefully playing it isn't a waste of time.

Jfc calm down there karen everybody can have an opinion

[Jimjam]

Jfc calm down there karen everybody can have an opinion

I read Sinbillibnis‘s post in a pretty stoic, calm tone tbh...

[Jontheripper]

I read Sinbillibnis‘s post in a pretty stoic, calm tone tbh...

He called him a bitch 2 words in....

[Jimjam]

He called him a bitch 2 words in....

Sinbillibnis said in a stoic, calm manner that completepts was bitching at volunteers.

[Jontheripper]

Sinbillibnis said in a stoic, calm manner that completepts was bitching at volunteers.

Seems like you have a poor understanding of stoicism.

[Sinbillibnis]

I appreciate the support Jimjam, I appreciate that my intent was clear to at least some.

[Jimjam]

Seems like you have a poor understanding of stoicism.

It’s a mid 40s version of torpor that came out in LoY.

I appreciate the support Jimjam, I appreciate that my intent was clear to at least some.

Yw. Glad I read your tone right.

[completepts]

Originally and still so, the issue really was my understanding. Having used /ex for many years like many players, I'd just never encountered an offline death, and (apparently) a subsequent 3-10 + hour LD presence on-line, which counted off the rez timer to extinction. < This prior sentence having been explained to me by the forum responders- which again thanks!

If it seemed as if I were accusing volunteers (guides etc) of some kind of misbehavior, I apologize definitely- never meant to do so. It's awesome people are willing to give their time to the game and community, p99 rocks.

Ultimately I feel like the rez "rules" were kinda weird with an upfront NO answer to any kind of rez/help. Even if it were due to a misunderstanding, and possibly *not* a bug- which was my first perception- not helping fix a bug or client issue seemed odd to me, right? No entitlement here, back to the grind!

[Videri]

Originally and still so, the issue really was my understanding. Having used /ex for many years like many players, I'd just never encountered an offline death, and (apparently) a subsequent 3-10 + hour LD presence on-line, which counted off the rez timer to extinction. < This prior sentence having been explained to me by the forum responders- which again thanks!

If it seemed as if I were accusing volunteers (guides etc) of some kind of misbehavior, I apologize definitely- never meant to do so. It's awesome people are willing to give their time to the game and community, p99 rocks.

Ultimately I feel like the rez "rules" were kinda weird with an upfront NO answer to any kind of rez/help. Even if it were due to a misunderstanding, and possibly *not* a bug- which was my first perception- not helping fix a bug or client issue seemed odd to me, right? No entitlement here, back to the grind!

Good on you, OP.