Getting into end game tanking

[Lightbringer55]

Hi everyone!

I'm not a hardcore player by any means and usually only have evenings and weekends to play. With that said I've always dreamed of being a tank at a raid. I'm just wondering if I were to start a warrior and push my way to 60 on green, is it possible to become a raid tank in a raid guild without being at raids 24/7? Would I at least get the chance to offtank stuff or get relinquished to just being a DPS? Guess it's just a question of whether warrior is the way to go, hybrid, and whether the big raiding guilds are already saturated with tanks?

Thanks!

[Crede]

Can never have too many tanks with defensive ready to be activated. You’ll be fine, start leveling

[Lightbringer55]

Awesome so if warrior appeals, go for it? I played a SK a long time ago but always got passed over when the real mobs needed to be tanked so I'd rather push a warrior if it still means I get the chance to stand in a fight for the raid!

[Keebz]

If you want to tank on raids, be a warrior.

[wagorf]

is it possible to become a raid tank in a raid guild without being at raids 24/7? Yes.

Would I at least get the chance to offtank stuff or get relinquished to just being a DPS?
There is chance to offtank, regardless of your gears.

No guild will reject you because of abundance of a specific class. This isn't 1999 when there are too many players.

[Lightbringer55]

That's what I needed to hear! Obviously if I'm so casual that my gear sucks and I'm a liability, I wouldn't be expecting to have a shot. I love xp'ing/grouping so I know it won't be a problem to hit 60. But it's more the question of when I should be thinking about joining a guild to start gearing etc.

I guess the real question will become with velious, how gear progression is going to work. Are people still going to start with the planes to get geared enough to start in velious, or is there enough dropable/entry level stuff from velious alone to just dive right in?

[Soothsayer]

That's what I needed to hear! Obviously if I'm so casual that my gear sucks and I'm a liability, I wouldn't be expecting to have a shot. I love xp'ing/grouping so I know it won't be a problem to hit 60. But it's more the question of when I should be thinking about joining a guild to start gearing etc.

I guess the real question will become with velious, how gear progression is going to work. Are people still going to start with the planes to get geared enough to start in velious, or is there enough dropable/entry level stuff from velious alone to just dive right in?

Plate house in Kael is a good starting point for getting serious tanking gear. Prior to that, just use whatever. Crusty shell, crafted armor (the warrior quest armor), etc. The camp is easy for a small raid and plate pieces drop like candy, and people will be selling the MQ's for the armor at some point in the relatively near future (though some pieces will be more expensive than others). You also have good weapon options like frostbringer + sarnak warhammer available, so threat should be okay as long as you also have a decent haste item.

I will say that in my time in a "megaguild" on Green, I rarely had the opportunity to tank and was mostly just extra melee DPS, and I left not long after. There were a *lot* of tanks. It wasn't terribly fun or exciting. I've had the most fun tanking high level single group dungeon content.

[Lightbringer55]

I will say that in my time in a "megaguild" on Green, I rarely had the opportunity to tank and was mostly just extra melee DPS, and I left not long after. There were a *lot* of tanks. It wasn't terribly fun or exciting. I've had the most fun tanking high level single group dungeon content.
Very interesting - this is my fear. I love tanking and have no issues doing it grouping, but the idea of raid tanking is a whole other level of fun in my mind. But if I can't raid tank, then I guess I sort of go back to the thought of another SK/Pal since it's fun leveling with them and they provide some utility in other ways (dirty pulling on an SK, etc) because outside of raiding, it seems like a warrior doesn't have a lot of utility?

[Lightbringer55]

I guess the other question I have - even if "surplus" in a large raid guild, do you still have a shot at warrior loot, or is it pretty contested still?

[Ennewi]

As a knight, not having a defensive on raids will limit you in a lot of ways; even rangers can step in (and do regularly) with weaponshield, buying time for warriors to get aggro or clerics to camp out. Knights do get some tanking mileage in during Ring War, 2nd floor Hate, Growth trash, Halls of Testing, and a few other raid encounters, but that's about it. Rangers also have enough sustained DPS not to feel like dead weight, and some burst with BFG plus Trueshot. And of course rangers can stand in as group tank, decently at least up until mid 50s and by then you're raiding.

[Sonderbeast]

Awesome so if warrior appeals, go for it? I played a SK a long time ago but always got passed over when the real mobs needed to be tanked so I'd rather push a warrior if it still means I get the chance to stand in a fight for the raid!

I guess the other question I have - even if "surplus" in a large raid guild, do you still have a shot at warrior loot, or is it pretty contested still?

It seems the root of your questions here isn't as much about whether or not to play a warrior, but rather which guild to join. A good guild that has the right structure will not only rotate you in and give you a chance to tank endgame content, but also give you a FAIR chance at getting gear. Looking at you 'loot councils'.

As a warrior main, getting your ass smashed for 5 minutes by a giant wurm while a team of clerics sprinkle their magic over your worn out body is an amazing experience. :rolleyes:

In all seriousness, yes play a warrior, do your research on a good guild and be plain about your expectations before you join and invest too much time. You also have to realize you need to put work in to be eligible to tank.

You need to get 60.
You need to get gear. (hp, aggro)
You need to properly understand raid tank game mechanics.

So long as you have these basics down, no reasonable guild would refuse you the opportunities.

If you want more advice starting a warrior feel free to PM.

[Solist]

When doing DA engages you can’t start a discipline, you will fizzle the defensive or evasive.


Caught me out once, Woops :p

[wagorf]

I guess the other question I have - even if "surplus" in a large raid guild, do you still have a shot at warrior loot, or is it pretty contested still?

Yes. Just make sure you join a DKP guild so you don't get cheated on by loot councils which may reward the core group or old members before you.

More importantly, you want a DKP guild that actually does get the kills, or else the dkp becomes inflated.

This thread should help - https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386534

[Lightbringer55]

Awesome, some great suggestions in here! Thank you everyone!

[Philistine]

Awesome, some great suggestions in here! Thank you everyone!

I'm surprised no one has suggested that you start with something other than a warrior early in your p99 career due to the gear reliance of warriors... I'm glad they haven't though! As a fellow nights/weekends only/mostly player i can tell you there's going to be pain/difficulty getting any character up to 60, and it may take a long time, so you may as well do it with the one you want to ultimately play!

[Bardp1999]

Warriors are great, they can be boring as fuck though because you have like 3 buttons to press....ever

[Soothsayer]

Warriors are great, they can be boring as fuck though because you have like 3 buttons to press....ever

Warrior is not a well-designed class, admittedly. Actually, arguably the worst-designed class since they don't get any aggro abilities with which to hold aggro, which is their primary job aside from soaking up damage. Having to rely on expensive high-ratio proc weapons and good worn haste is really stupid. That's definitely something to consider if you want to roll warrior -- you need the funds to get a decent aggro loadout or you're going to look bad as a tank and have a bad time. Expecting root to be available 24/7 to solve your aggro problems is unrealistic.

In all fairness, knight classes are almost as boring in a typical tanking situation where you're basically just using disease cloud or flash of light to hold aggro along with your melee swing, and maybe a DD spell if you're facing undead. Several classes fall into the "use one or two buttons" routine in a group leveling scenario, really.

[Sonderbeast]

Imagine pressing TWO buttons as a rogue.

[Guesty07]

Imagine zero as a wizard

[Arvan]

warrior - the king of classes

[Jimjam]

Warrior is not a well-designed class, admittedly. Actually, arguably the worst-designed class since they don't get any aggro abilities with which to hold aggro, which is their primary job aside from soaking up damage. Having to rely on expensive high-ratio proc weapons and good worn haste is really stupid. That's definitely something to consider if you want to roll warrior -- you need the funds to get a decent aggro loadout or you're going to look bad as a tank and have a bad time. Expecting root to be available 24/7 to solve your aggro problems is unrealistic.

In all fairness, knight classes are almost as boring in a typical tanking situation where you're basically just using disease cloud or flash of light to hold aggro along with your melee swing, and maybe a DD spell if you're facing undead. Several classes fall into the "use one or two buttons" routine in a group leveling scenario, really.

Warriors are well designed.

Bow to get strong initial aggro. Taunt for snap aggro, strong melee skills to maintain aggro and bash for a spike of aggro.

The biggest problem was implementation- bash never generated the aggro it intended to. It was planned to be equivalent to spell stun.

Late game / expansions were poorly designed ballooning the hate generated by status effect spells like snare, stun and slow due to increased mob hp. Monks and rogues getting incredible and easy melee output while warriors weren’t so easy to upgrade. Bows never improved to catch up with the inflation of that melee either.

The biggest saving grace is warriors synergise well with root (until mobs start to summon).

So yeah, warriors had a good class design but poor implementation. Other badly designed aspects made the impact of this poor implementation stronger.

[wagorf]

Once you finish raid gearing.

As war: Damn this shit rocks

A hybrid: Oh is this it?

[Lightbringer55]

For me it's not about the leveling, the design of the class, or the gear while leveling. We know it's warriors tanking the end game content in Velious. For me warrior would be something I play to have a shot of being the front line of a raid. As someone said, that rush of being the only thing between the mob and everyone softer. It's more the question of whether I'm going to get that shot without playing 24/7 in a bigger guild doing that sort of content and I guess what it would look like for raid gearing and that progression.

[Snaggles]

If max level just ask to be in the MT rotation. Most guilds will work you in. You probably won’t be first or second pick on a ridiculously tough npc without serious hp optimization (unless stuff goes sideways); basically anything that can kill anything but the beefiest max hp warrrior in a lucky melee round. Mid tier dragons and flurry drakes though if willing and eager will easily get you in the driver seat.

At max level I’d try and farm up some EC gear to fill those slots. There is a huge difference to trying and not trying on your own.

As a knight I’ve had a lot of fun tanking smaller trash fights in the planes and ToV. Some 15-32k Kunark hits. Nothing with Lord or Lady in the title but still it’s been fun. One Flurry drake pickup when no better options were available. I think I used all the raids mana and it was glorious, lol.

[Philistine]

For me it's not about the leveling, the design of the class, or the gear while leveling. We know it's warriors tanking the end game content in Velious. For me warrior would be something I play to have a shot of being the front line of a raid. As someone said, that rush of being the only thing between the mob and everyone softer. It's more the question of whether I'm going to get that shot without playing 24/7 in a bigger guild doing that sort of content and I guess what it would look like for raid gearing and that progression.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that if you want to play a warrior you totally should, and I stand by that. I'm not familiar with all the ins and outs of all the different DKP systems, but it seems to me you should be able to gear up a warrior without playing 24/7, it will just take you longer than if you did play 24/7, as it'll take you longer to accumulate DKP with which to buy stuff.

If you're not set on a warrior, you could consider a ranger. It may seem/be completely different than main tanking a raid, but you'll likely end up tanking in a bunch of xp groups all the way to 60, and you can get the defender-of-the-raid feeling you're after by pulling off epic bumps when the main tanks go down- no killer gear required - just be 60 and have weapon shield and you will likely be all that stands between Lord Nastydragon and your helpless guildies!

Just food for thought :)

[Allishia]

War is definitely most fun class to raid gear. I got my other melee alts basics like 41% haste / avatar and budget dps weps, casters I snagged some fun clickys etc.
But war every single slot is a noticable difference so you feel like it's dkp well spent..and clerics love ching big HP wars which makes you feel awesome an useful too :p

[Tsunami21k]

War is definitely most fun class to raid gear. I got my other melee alts basics like 41% haste / avatar and budget dps weps, casters I snagged some fun clickys etc.
But war every single slot is a noticable difference so you feel like it's dkp well spent..and clerics love ching big HP wars which makes you feel awesome an useful too :p

100% this. I’ve recently put my SK main on the dkp back burner to gear up a warrior. Warriors are extremely gear dependent but man they make the most of nice gear when you feed it to them.

[Stonewallx39]

If you’ll be in a true big end game guild doing only the toughest targets, warrior definitely pulls ahead. For most Kunark, planes, and a decent bit of Velious knights are great tanks (and often preferred) which allow DPS to unload and burn things down without waiting/worrying about warrior aggro.

Also worth noting a small percentage of warriors actually make it to 60 because group tanking on a warrior is often quite painful. This is especially true without a substantial twinking.

[Baler]

Hi everyone!

I'm not a hardcore player by any means and usually only have evenings and weekends to play. With that said I've always dreamed of being a tank at a raid. I'm just wondering if I were to start a warrior and push my way to 60 on green, is it possible to become a raid tank in a raid guild without being at raids 24/7? Would I at least get the chance to offtank stuff or get relinquished to just being a DPS? Guess it's just a question of whether warrior is the way to go, hybrid, and whether the big raiding guilds are already saturated with tanks?

Thanks!
Basically High high agro weapons, try to shoot for over 4k life to start with. Get those resists up for specific targets. Just ask the officers or guild leader "Hey I want to try and tank", Can even have them get another tank prepped if you fail, that's the usual strat anyways.

Also Not everything should be something you want to tank. Pick what you want to tank wisely. The better you do (holding agro) the more likely they'll call upon you again. And of course hope to god the healers have your back.

(I would send a personal /tell to a couple druids or shamans and quietly nicely ask them to throw some spot heals on me through-out the fight. This way there is cover between the CHs)

So, you must join a raid guild that is willing to let you try and tank. Your goals will be making plat to buy the best gear possible for tanking and saving up your DKP or hoping loot council picks you.

EverQuest is not like WoW,
Warrior on EQ takes a career level of dedication to the class.

edit: 1 more thing, AC does work on p99. Raid loot items that give you insane amounts of AC are good, (40-60+ ac per piece kind of items). But don't focus on that too hard if you can't get your resists and hp up.

[Stonewallx39]

For me it's not about the leveling, the design of the class, or the gear while leveling. We know it's warriors tanking the end game content in Velious. For me warrior would be something I play to have a shot of being the front line of a raid. As someone said, that rush of being the only thing between the mob and everyone softer. It's more the question of whether I'm going to get that shot without playing 24/7 in a bigger guild doing that sort of content and I guess what it would look like for raid gearing and that progression.

To answer your question more precisely, you will get shots to be the main tank if you take a warrior to level 60, period. Some content just requires a warrior. It doesn’t take ungodly gear either, frankly you can main tank Vindi in full thurg armor with your defensive up. A lot of that you could get for no DKP just consistently doing platehouse with a small guild. Will you be the first choice everytime, of course not. Will you be the best option some of the time, damn right. And it will feel good. Also you’ll likely get lots of “at bats” when the first or second tanks goes down due to flurries, gaps in the chain, etc.

It feels very cool hearing the healers all call the chain on your name as you watch your hp bounce around. When you get to say in OOC/voice “Please assist …” and the DPS rushes in. Oh yeah it’s pretty badass.

My only thought is that it’s hard to get a warrior to 60 but if you’re up for it, then may Rallos Zek guide your blades brother.

[Allishia]

With the way xp is in the hole. Leveling is almost as easy as chardok aoe now lol. 60 should be easy! :p

[Lightbringer55]

Great advice, this is the stuff I wanted to hear before making the leap. Thanks everyone!!

[Tsunami21k]

Also join a guild. Make friends. Get to know and befriend people even outside of your guild. Lots of people will take someone who isn’t the best geared or experienced so long as they are fun to group with and willing to learn.

[Stonewallx39]

Also join a guild. Make friends. Get to know and befriend people even outside of your guild. Lots of people will take someone who isn’t the best geared or experienced so long as they are fun to group with and willing to learn.

This is good advice too, a warrior is at his best as part of a team. Warriors should also be comfortable communicating, when a new DPS joins the group remind them “Warrior aggro don’t go too crazy too early in the fight.” Talk to teammates about root and be willing to pull or DPS if a knight joins the team and that is what’s best for the group

Most players in EQ are trying to have fun and are less concerned with 100% min/max efficiency all the time. That being said anything you can do to make the team more successful should be 100% on your list.

[Penish]

I think you hold aggro for 6.38 seconds while 372 people kill the mob. Hope this helps.

Oh ya, hitpoints are good.

[Allishia]

I think you hold aggro for 6.38 seconds while 372 people kill the mob. Hope this helps.

Oh ya, hitpoints are good.

Kunark content maybe, but velious most fights are a lot longer, and big hitters like aow and vymn are fun fights for a war :)

[Penish]

Oh also, all content in velious can be tanked in kunark gear. Don't feel hard pressed to get an extra few HP's when all they need to do is bot another cleric in to smooth out the chain.

[Allishia]

Oh also, all content in velious can be tanked in kunark gear. Don't feel hard pressed to get an extra few HP's when all they need to do is bot another cleric in to smooth out the chain.

Well I see your banned but I'll reply anyway...a full velious raid geared tank is a billion times easier to heal then a kunark geared one (I play clr sometimes too, and you def see the difference in group geared vs full raid, it's really not even comparable).

And you don't always have 25 rogues / pets to burn things down (like rampage did when velious launched), so when disc drops, that ac/hp difference is huge /nod.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Well I see your banned but I'll reply anyway...a full velious raid geared tank is a billion times easier to heal then a kunark geared one (I play clr sometimes too, and you def see the difference in group geared vs full raid, it's really not even comparable).

And you don't always have 25 rogues / pets to burn things down (like rampage did when velious launched), so when disc drops, that ac/hp difference is huge /nod.

Very much this. Once you have been in a few AoW cleric chains, you see the difference between good geared warriors and bad ones. There are quite a few tense moments when a 6k+ HP tank gets down to 3% before the next CH goes off.

[Stonewallx39]

Aw the banned little penish? He was such an angry elf!

[bradsamma]

Well I see your banned but I'll reply anyway...a full velious raid geared tank is a billion times easier to heal then a kunark geared one (I play clr sometimes too, and you def see the difference in group geared vs full raid, it's really not even comparable).

And you don't always have 25 rogues / pets to burn things down (like rampage did when velious launched), so when disc drops, that ac/hp difference is huge /nod.

That and in the current meta, you tend to log in and kill things instantly. You don't always have an ideal CH chain there to always keep you topped off. The more buffer, the more likely you are to stay up while everyone else logs in.