6 week return to EQ Live: Impressions.

[Daywolf]

So it’s about two weeks into the free six week credit to all existing accounts since they got hacked and lost your identity to criminals, what’s your impression?

---

Makes me wish I had a Mac. But even then, PoP is a little much. But anyway, the new progression servers are nothing like classic, while many of the players there think it is; who “claim” to have played EQ long ago. But I see that a lot I guess, not just people saying they did, but also to those that think they did because they may have gotten a hold of an account that may be older than themselves lol.

Ok lets get down to peeing on the grass here. Unless you are on a progression server (how absurd they probably wish classic EQ should have been released as), then you are on a pretty desolate server. But does that matter? No because every character can pretty much solo all they want. In fact my cleric is not even desired for groups any longer, not when they can just hire an NPC to chase them around and get healed by. Ranger has become one of the top desired raiding classes... LOL, 2nd to Nec.

And the new graphics and zones (I haven’t played in 4 yrs - been on peq) hauntingly remind me of AC2. We all know what happened to AC2.… Just these big desolate, featureless zones etc. And when you get to someplace you would expect to have feature, oh like Freeport docs, it’s just clear of but maybe a couple boxes and barrels. That’s just horrid level/zone design as often produced by wannabe aspiring game developers their first couple weeks of learning. wtf?!?

FAIL.

They need to pull out something reasonable from the archives, server and client like pre-pop era imo. EQ has become pretty absurd.

Still 4 weeks to go, I may need the suicide prevention hotline number before long (*j/k*). Then it’s to EQ2, though were I have family that have been playing that for years. Obvious trap.

----

So you’ve been playing, what do you think of the current incarnation of EQ?

[stormlord]

EQ is like a person dressed up in bandages, stapled together and barely walking. It can still be a fun game at the higher levels, but it's just so patchwork. I'm thinking about EQ2 too if only for the fact that's part of the EQ franchise. Can't believe I haven't played it. The one thing I'm worried about most is not being able to enjoy the old content. One of hte things I hate most about MMORPGs is hte mudflation. I don't want everybody to be stuck in the first expansion, I just want to be able to do the old content without needing a large group or a raid like was needed originally. People who do not understand it think that I want it all handed to me. They don't understand that old zones are empty. The only way to make them worthwhile again is by making them doable by smaller groups or by soloers. It's a way of combating mudflation and preserving the content.

What we need is an extensive review of mudflated content in games. We need to figure out how to resolve it without breaking the game or ignoring a portion of your customers. I don't think progression servers are the answer. I think a whole subgame needs to be developed for progression players on EVERY server. It needs to be something that is optional but available. Maybe all that's needed is a little tweaking to make older content easier, but it could be something as far out as a progression flag on your character.

It's basic risk vs reward. If content B is easy and rewards X+1 and content A is easy and rewards X then most everyone will go to content B. If content B is moderately challenging and rewards X+1 and content A is easy and rewards X then you have a working progression path. What happens i think is that the system becomes ignored and is no longer balanced. So people start avoiding certain content when they're leveling up or doing alternative advancement. This made a large chunk of EQ1 mudflated/broken. So probably 60% or more of the game was worthless content. If one was ignorant of this, it's bareable, but who wants to be dumb?

To be honest, there're a lot of things about classic EQ that I do not like. I've gone over that in other posts. But there're a lot of things that I like that I do not see much of in some modern MMORPGs. I wish more RPGs would script the non-players so they move around more like how some non-players in EQ1 will go from qeynos to highpass hold even (i think). In a lot of them they're just standing still in one place and never move. And I also like to type my messages to non-players. There's not a lot of that in modern games. And it's nice how non-players in EQ1 will say things randomly and you can overhear them. I wish there was more of that in modern MMORPGs. In fact, i wish the whole idea of a non-player WORLD was expanded on and developed like it mattered. Factions as EQ1 made them might be too grindy, but the whole idea of factions shouldn't be abandoned just because someone doesn't like how it might have worked in EQ1. There's a lot of that in all genres. There's so much awesomness in games that're up to 20 years old that's forgotten. People forget that when they focus on all of the things we've improved. They just don't have an appreciation for it.

One thing I imagine is .. take for instance Qeynos .. lets say that there's an appearance tab (some modern games have htis to change how your items look). Now you switch into clothing that's appropriate for the city that you're in. BAM you see this on your chat window, "You have gained +15 social awareness." Lets say that you walk instead of run on the paths in the city, so you see, "You have gained +10 social awareness." Etc. These things wouldn't give you more money or anything, they would just improve a temporary stat so that other non-players would be more talkative or friendly towards you. It wouldn't impact quests or anything. It would be purely for roleplaying. So you'd enter a tavern and sit down. BAM you get a social awareness bonus. Then you order a beer. Another bonus. The more that you roleplay the higher your awareness gets. At the highest rating other non-players start to make comments about you. A few of them even become your friend and remember you whenever you visit. Etc. Etc. As long as these things don't give you money or make quests easier or have a tangible impact on the actual game then they're fun side-games that could be expanded just simply for the hell of it. Call it fluff, what you will, but I think it would be fun to every once in a while roleplay a citizen and walk around like I should and not run around like a madman like most players do like they're invisible or something to everyone else. I want to 'play' being polite and aware of customs! A new game is not needed for this.

We should be able to play games multiple ways too. Not just combat and quests and tradeskills. I should be able to write books and become a famous writer. I should be able to become a true bard and simply go from city to city telling stories at the taverns and causing general chaos in the rumormills. I should be able to join government and exist there alone, maybe working as an envoy. I should be able to do whatever the hell I want and still be able to get max level and get money. There needs to be more ways to play these games. They're still stuck in the D&D combat-oriented gameplay. There's a big opportunity for games to expand elsewhere.

There're too many things for me to cover. I'll leave it here.

[Hasbinbad]

So it’s about two weeks into the free six week credit to all existing accounts since they got hacked and lost your identity to criminals, what’s your impression?

---

Makes me wish I had a Mac. But even then, PoP is a little much. But anyway, the new progression servers are nothing like classic, while many of the players there think it is; who “claim” to have played EQ long ago. But I see that a lot I guess, not just people saying they did, but also to those that think they did because they may have gotten a hold of an account that may be older than themselves lol.

Ok lets get down to peeing on the grass here. Unless you are on a progression server (how absurd they probably wish classic EQ should have been released as), then you are on a pretty desolate server. But does that matter? No because every character can pretty much solo all they want. In fact my cleric is not even desired for groups any longer, not when they can just hire an NPC to chase them around and get healed by. Ranger has become one of the top desired raiding classes... LOL, 2nd to Nec.

And the new graphics and zones (I haven’t played in 4 yrs - been on peq) hauntingly remind me of AC2. We all know what happened to AC2.… Just these big desolate, featureless zones etc. And when you get to someplace you would expect to have feature, oh like Freeport docs, it’s just clear of but maybe a couple boxes and barrels. That’s just horrid level/zone design as often produced by wannabe aspiring game developers their first couple weeks of learning. wtf?!?

FAIL.

They need to pull out something reasonable from the archives, server and client like pre-pop era imo. EQ has become pretty absurd.

Still 4 weeks to go, I may need the suicide prevention hotline number before long (*j/k*). Then it’s to EQ2, though were I have family that have been playing that for years. Obvious trap.

----

So you’ve been playing, what do you think of the current incarnation of EQ?

EQ is like a person dressed up in bandages, stapled together and barely walking. It can still be a fun game at the higher levels, but it's just so patchwork. I'm thinking about EQ2 too if only for the fact that's part of the EQ franchise. Can't believe I haven't played it. The one thing I'm worried about most is not being able to enjoy the old content. One of hte things I hate most about MMORPGs is hte mudflation. I don't want everybody to be stuck in the first expansion, I just want to be able to do the old content without needing a large group or a raid like was needed originally. People who do not understand it think that I want it all handed to me. They don't understand that old zones are empty. The only way to make them worthwhile again is by making them doable by smaller groups or by soloers. It's a way of combating mudflation and preserving the content.

What we need is an extensive review of mudflated content in games. We need to figure out how to resolve it without breaking the game or ignoring a portion of your customers. I don't think progression servers are the answer. I think a whole subgame needs to be developed for progression players on EVERY server. It needs to be something that is optional but available. Maybe all that's needed is a little tweaking to make older content easier, but it could be something as far out as a progression flag on your character.

It's basic risk vs reward. If content B is easy and rewards X+1 and content A is easy and rewards X then most everyone will go to content B. If content B is moderately challenging and rewards X+1 and content A is easy and rewards X then you have a working progression path. What happens i think is that the system becomes ignored and is no longer balanced. So people start avoiding certain content when they're leveling up or doing alternative advancement. This made a large chunk of EQ1 mudflated/broken. So probably 60% or more of the game was worthless content. If one was ignorant of this, it's bareable, but who wants to be dumb?

To be honest, there're a lot of things about classic EQ that I do not like. I've gone over that in other posts. But there're a lot of things that I like that I do not see much of in some modern MMORPGs. I wish more RPGs would script the non-players so they move around more like how some non-players in EQ1 will go from qeynos to highpass hold even (i think). In a lot of them they're just standing still in one place and never move. And I also like to type my messages to non-players. There's not a lot of that in modern games. And it's nice how non-players in EQ1 will say things randomly and you can overhear them. I wish there was more of that in modern MMORPGs. In fact, i wish the whole idea of a non-player WORLD was expanded on and developed like it mattered. Factions as EQ1 made them might be too grindy, but the whole idea of factions shouldn't be abandoned just because someone doesn't like how it might have worked in EQ1. There's a lot of that in all genres. There's so much awesomness in games that're up to 20 years old that's forgotten. People forget that when they focus on all of the things we've improved. They just don't have an appreciation for it.

One thing I imagine is .. take for instance Qeynos .. lets say that there's an appearance tab (some modern games have htis to change how your items look). Now you switch into clothing that's appropriate for the city that you're in. BAM you see this on your chat window, "You have gained +15 social awareness." Lets say that you walk instead of run on the paths in the city, so you see, "You have gained +10 social awareness." Etc. These things wouldn't give you more money or anything, they would just improve a temporary stat so that other non-players would be more talkative or friendly towards you. It wouldn't impact quests or anything. It would be purely for roleplaying. So you'd enter a tavern and sit down. BAM you get a social awareness bonus. Then you order a beer. Another bonus. The more that you roleplay the higher your awareness gets. At the highest rating other non-players start to make comments about you. A few of them even become your friend and remember you whenever you visit. Etc. Etc. As long as these things don't give you money or make quests easier or have a tangible impact on the actual game then they're fun side-games that could be expanded just simply for the hell of it. Call it fluff, what you will, but I think it would be fun to every once in a while roleplay a citizen and walk around like I should and not run around like a madman like most players do like they're invisible or something to everyone else. I want to 'play' being polite and aware of customs! A new game is not needed for this.

We should be able to play games multiple ways too. Not just combat and quests and tradeskills. I should be able to write books and become a famous writer. I should be able to become a true bard and simply go from city to city telling stories at the taverns and causing general chaos in the rumormills. I should be able to join government and exist there alone, maybe working as an envoy. I should be able to do whatever the hell I want and still be able to get max level and get money. There needs to be more ways to play these games. They're still stuck in the D&D combat-oriented gameplay. There's a big opportunity for games to expand elsewhere.

There're too many things for me to cover. I'll leave it here.
http://jamiedubs.com/fuckflickr/data/web/batman-first-i-was-like.jpg

[Daywolf]

@ stormlord. Interesting post. I think a lot of that has been addressed, but just not all in one game as of yet.
So you have the political power structure in SWG within player cities. NPC’s that bow to players that have title in UO. EQ2 to some degree addressed mudflation. The unusual professions of EVE such as exploration. The bards of lotro that write their own songs and play in groups/bands just for kicks. Serious RP probably existing best in SecondLife among certain player communities. I can probably think of more examples, but yes not all in a single game as of yet. If it were, it would probably work best in a sandbox, and one where players probably have more control over the environment than that which is currently available in games (but less than in SL). Of course the mechanics of it would be difficult, but not impossible. And every dev/publisher seems to have chased mostly after WoW cloning.

I’ve played EQ2, but from launch to around first expansion (the bad time for EQ2 I hear). I’m really not big into raiding, but I am for PvP if it’s done right (best example SWG pre-CU/pre-NGE - loved it). Word is EQ2 PvP has improved, that’s mainly what I’ll be checking out. I usually have 2 or 3 mmo’s going, but after leaving EVE (badly neglected faction war system), just p99 now since I switched from peq and still need to fill at least one more mmo slot. Yes, EQ classic is not perfect, but it’s certainly a lot better than WoW on every level lol

btw, I think the strongest point of classic EQ is that it's more along the lines of forced grouping which I am a fan of. Non-instanced forced-grouping, I'd like to see more of that and even more aggressive than classic EQ. Not just PvE, but for PvP as well.

[Stumpes]

Ok lets get down to peeing on the grass here. Unless you are on a progression server (how absurd they probably wish classic EQ should have been released as), then you are on a pretty desolate server.

This is untrue for the FV server. FV probably has the highest population of all servers nowadays because they did the free character transfer there a few months ago.

I played there for many years, and it is far better than regular servers now that the rulesets are nearly identical except that FV has little "no drop" gear. I will agree that the last few expansions have been quite bad, but my guess is that EQ is one of the stronger games SOE operates.

[Goobles]

Can't hire mercs on tlp servers.

[Daywolf]

This is untrue for the FV server. FV probably has the highest population of all servers nowadays because they did the free character transfer there a few months ago.

I played there for many years, and it is far better than regular servers now that the rulesets are nearly identical except that FV has little "no drop" gear. I will agree that the last few expansions have been quite bad, but my guess is that EQ is one of the stronger games SOE operates.
Once upon a time FV was awesome. Would almost be worth keeping the sub if it still had the same rules it did looooong ago. Now it's @%&$! you twink!
lol

Can't hire mercs on tlp servers.
Not yet...
Why even bother rolling a cleric knowing what's coming?

[BrandeX]

They need to pull out something reasonable from the archives, server and client like pre-pop era imo. EQ has become pretty absurd.
I lurk the live forums from time to time, and this has been brought up there. According to the devs, there is nothing to "rollback" or bring up from the archives, because there is NO archives, no backups. What is in the current version of EQ live is all there is, no previous versions of code are saved, all have been deleted/overwritten. So, the current state of the game is all there is, and if they want it to be like the old state, they too would have to write it up from scratch based on the current server code.

[Sajan]

Why even bother rolling a cleric knowing what's coming?

Because a real Cleric who pays even the slightest attention and has somewhat decent gear will out-heal 3 mercs stacked in one group. A real Cleric can make judgement calls based on the situation at hand, while a merc will be busy healing your Rogue who took some AE damage while your tank is getting raped.

Also, mercs cannot be used in raids. If everyone had this mentality, no one would be raiding..

The Cleric mercs were tolerable in the expansions prior to UF, but quickly became obsolete when you couldn't upgrade past the Tier 5 version in the next expansion.

[Koota]

The Cleric mercs were tolerable in the expansions prior to UF, but quickly became obsolete when you couldn't upgrade past the Tier 5 version in the next expansion.

This.

They used mercs as means to draw in a new playerbase whose complaints were that everyone was already higher level, and they had no means of leveling themselves. So to stray from even a shotty cross-server instance system like WoW, the mercenaries were the only alternative. As Sajan pointed out, they were really only viable in the expansion they were released, SoD ... and nothing more.

The capabilities of clerics on live is pretty tremendous. On Zek, they are incredibly good damage dealers in addition to healers, with their "Hand" line that gives their weapons procs and their "Wards" which do an absurd amount of damage to attackers. Not to mention the instant heals that can level out the life of their entire group. They are vital to raids just as they were in Classic.

[Daywolf]

I lurk the live forums from time to time, and this has been brought up there. According to the devs, there is nothing to "rollback" or bring up from the archives, because there is NO archives, no backups. What is in the current version of EQ live is all there is, no previous versions of code are saved, all have been deleted/overwritten. So, the current state of the game is all there is, and if they want it to be like the old state, they too would have to write it up from scratch based on the current server code.
I guarantee they have it. They are sealed in some lawyers vault for TM & Copyright protection as is the norm. Whatever dev wrote that, well should put down their crack pipe.

Also, mercs cannot be used in raids. If everyone had this mentality, no one would be raiding..
Poopsockers: 1
Visiting team: 0

I'm glad I already have a cleric, don't need to PL/Solo/Merc to cap. But then My Cleric on live is staying in retirement. Among the live community(clerics), the issues remain. Not even on top 5 list of desired class for raiding. Once top 3, not last. Sentiment being all well and good, but the fact remains they have become obsolete in todays prize-winning EQq.

Oh and yes, I would imagine they are better for PvP now, since they were retooled to be a solo class. But then EQ PvP was never SOE's selling point for the game; not well developed. In the end, generally, the qq soloers won. "ooooh everquest is too haaard - we don't want forced grouping" etc.

[Koota]

Not even on top 5 list of desired class for raiding. Once top 3, not last. Sentiment being all well and good, but the fact remains they have become obsolete in todays prize-winning EQq.



Failing how to see they are still not in the top three when any raid in Tower, UF, or HoT is impossible without this class. Where as that isn't true for any one single class otherwise.