[Elf Laywer Quest] FoW vs Seal Team [Archive]

Domo

08-05-2021, 07:10 AM

Ahoy da mates.

I am a member of Seal Team, and I love my Yankee Boomer friends, but i have often no freaking clue whats going on behind the scene. I pretty much "just follow the orders"....
(btw I speak here only for myself and dont represent anyone but myself)

Usally I wait for a TL:DR version of a "drama-story" or some Elf-laywer quest but this time I though I try to follow one of these storys from the beginning to the end.

I consider myself in this as neutral?! even though I am a member of ST. Maybe we win maybe we lose, I accept the outcome...have to hehe.

Anyways, I kind of watching at this situation like people might did 30 years ago during the OJ Simpson trial.

But what is it all about right now?

So both guilds had a race on 1 or 2 dragonz going on and my guild ST fucked up a pull and FoW died to it. We did together the CR, my guild conceded, and we moved on, few min later an afk rogue from ST came back from afk and caused by mistake another wipe on FoW to which my guild extended the conced. But FoW dont believe it and suing us to get more. And now GM judges have to check the evidence and decide what they do with it.

There are for sure more details to it but I think thats like the core point ?!

As I mention I didnt really follow all drama-storys or Elf-laywering, but I remember that when I played on blue very casual Ive seen some big Elf-laywer thing going on where 2 top guilds (Aftermath & Awakaned) got banned pretty much every other week to a point where both guilds got banned for 1 or 2 full months.
So I am asking myself; is this the only possible outcome in such Elf-laywer quests? Or was this more of an extraordinary situation with a peak back on blue?

I mean shit can always happen when 50 vs 50, 80 vs 50 or 60 vs 80 vs 100 try to aim for the same target. And I dont need to be a gypsy to see more of such situation happening in the future where 1 guild kills another.

Think it would be the simplest and best for both guilds if they find a solution before a GM rules in this matter, because even though I didnt really had much talk/experiance with the GMs here it seems like(?!) that if the GM have to rule then its for sure that someone's ass will be bleeding, and its for sure not theirs.

So what are the possible outcomes in such situations?

- ST gets banned for X days from dragon/zone/game
- FoW gets banned for X days from dragon/zone/game
- Both guilds gets banned for X days from dragon/zone/game
- GMs say what they think about it but at the end dont punish anyone

Or are there other options? Because even though I try to be as neutral as possible, I think that a raid ban would hurt ST more than FoW and this wouldnt be fair if both guilds gets the same punishment right?

So I think it would be funny if FoW lose on this then their punishment should be that their guildname changes for 1-2 weeks into "Force of Vill" (Vill is an ST Officer and my personal peridot suggadaddy).

Or if the GMs rule in favor of FoW but dont consider the outcome as dramatic as them, then Seal Team have to be the bitch of FoW for 1-2 (random)targets and kill them for FoW. (if you role a 1 we kill Naggy for you, if ya role a 23 we kill Vulak for you, etc.)

These are just small brainfart ideas, but I think in general such outcomes would be funny and calm maybe many of the angry pixelpoopers down a bit?!

Anyways, please dont consider this as a hate/troll post. I am truely interessted in the whole process right now and simple like to exchange with other people who following this right now.

smell ya around

Dromo

(sorry about my english)

guggle

08-05-2021, 07:37 AM

So glad I don't do the end-game

eqravenprince

08-05-2021, 09:36 AM

So glad I don't do the end-game

This

red_demonman

08-05-2021, 09:43 AM

Relax

Nirgon

08-05-2021, 09:46 AM

I smell ya

DisbeAsos

08-05-2021, 05:49 PM

Interesting thread. As a member of Black Lotus and now Force of Will id totally be down for some super random other punishment that would be super embarrassing . Being at all these raids i can tell you another guild attempting to leapfrog you several different weeks and and causing several massive wipes severely delaying any guild from progress should have some punishment. Unfortunately with both minimal punishment and even some punishment that was more fitting in the past ST leadership doesnt really seem to give a shit and just continues doing whatever they want to do. Id love to see a temporary guild name change for like 2 weeks that would be embrassaing. Killing a mob for another guild doesnt interest me, we dont need hand me down pixels. Again, really interesting thoughts on the matter...

Ripqozko

08-05-2021, 06:02 PM

Autism, hope that helps.

Lightbringer55

08-05-2021, 07:24 PM

I think it's pretty clear from previous and recent precedents set that even if done with ill intent, the punishment is pretty minimal, if anything at all. In fact, there's been a pattern that if the rules were poorly defined (and that's happened quite often where terms like 'immediate' engagement or engaging 'shortly after' weren't well defined), then the decision ends up as "it wasn't well defined, so let's just define it with more rules and requirements for next time but this time the guild that bent the rules and screwed another guild over wins and gets to keep their ill-gotten pixels." Basically the message is you can do whatever you want as long as you find some loophole to spin your way out of it.

Aeaolena

08-05-2021, 08:23 PM

So both guilds had a race on 1 or 2 dragonz going on and my guild ST fucked up a pull and FoW died to it. We did together the CR, my guild conceded, and we moved on, few min later an afk rogue from ST came back from afk and caused by mistake another wipe on FoW to which my guild extended the conced. But FoW dont believe it and suing us to get more. And now GM judges have to check the evidence and decide what they do with it.

Super Important Context - Seal Team did not concede on the first train, as is expected in situations like this. You can see the screenshot clarifying that it wasn't a concede, in the official petition document. Along with not conceding being a pattern of behavior, as FW saw the weeks before.

Also Important Context - The second train was advantageous to Seal Team, as it ultimately slowed down our force / prevented us from effectively engaging other targets.

Also Important to Note - Seal Team has made Kingdom (I think? or maybe Ven in the past?) concede a VS after Seal Team *won* at VS, after it was discovered a Kingdom or Venerate enchanter freaked out and had fat-finger tashed VS. Kingdom/Ven then had to take responsibility for the accidental of their member, because Seal Team demanded they do so even though it didn't even cost them the mob in question.

Most important Context - The two mob concede happened in shout **much later**, after Seal Team scored a Jorellag kill. A kill they didn't have to compete against FW for.

Sorry for the long post - but context is pretty important.

This was the third time, as I understand it - that this has happened to us from Seal Team. We are a semi-casual guild with families and goofballs, but when we do compete for targets - we want to have that competition be fair. This ToV situation and standard as is - is getting a little out of hand. It's not okay.

Aeaolena

08-05-2021, 08:25 PM

Also, Congrats to you guys on Server first AoW. That's a hard fight.

Imposter

08-05-2021, 08:38 PM

It is kind of a open / shut case.

FW goes for a triplet.
ST tries to leap frog and fails miserbly and trains 2 of the trips on FW.
FW asks for concede and leave the area which is standard.
ST refused, but gave "attempt".
after recovery, FW engages and gets trained blatantly by ST rogue.
FW asks for concede and leave area which is standard.
ST refused and killed one of the twins instead.

FW is delayed for hours on a mob we killed on first try.

ST is able to kill multiple mobs during this time because they trained their competition.

FW asks for additional concessions.
ST says fuck off.

FW petitions trains / harassment.
ST defends with no defense, but in their defense document decide to point fingers at some random short clips that try to paint a picture of trains that happened somewhere with no context that have nothing to do with raids.

Delekhan

08-05-2021, 08:44 PM

Can we move this to RNF please because it's become stupid?

Kirdan

08-05-2021, 11:03 PM

super duper important context: noble as Domo's intentions may be, this thread is already full of little more than misconceptions, posturing, outright lies, etc. it belongs in RnF.

beaon

08-05-2021, 11:41 PM

Tunabros

08-06-2021, 12:06 AM

popcorn time!

Convict

08-06-2021, 02:36 AM

Certainly no bias at all in the recounting of events here. The "context" as is shared. Seal team absolutely nefariously intended to cause repeat harm to their opposition. There simply is no other explanation! Just impossible to think of any other possible explanation. It just isn't possible for it to be any other way! The full context, recounting of events, not leaving anything out shows it! Seal team must dominate its opposition into the ground, repeatedly. Sarcasm aside...

I am not in either guild, but obviously your sarcastic post is anticipated when taken into account your POV and perception of events given you are in said guild in question. Raiding on blue was absolutely 100% no different as this exact same stuff happened there.

The problem with your logic here is that "intention" never mattered. All that mattered was the result of the action committed. It sounds like the result was that FoW got completely fucked over by ST regardless if ST "intended" to cause such harm or not, and hopefully the punishment will reflect that.

Its funny to me though that the top guild always behaves the same, regardless of who is in that position. When they fuck up and accidently train a competing guild somehow they always find a way to play victim and find some convoluted way to spin the blame on the actual victim. But when the opposite happens, and the top guild is trained or literally anything happens, even when it doesn't affect the outcome and the top guild still ends up with the kill, they throw the whole fucking lawyerquest book at their competition's face.

"Intention" should not be factored into a GM decision, because it cannot be proven, and that's why ST will try to use it the best they can to spin spin spin, baby! "We didn't intend to train them! It was one single afk rogue who screwed up, it would be stupid to punish us for that!"... "Kingdom intended to wipe us when that one single enchanter screwed up and tried to tash VS, and even though it didn't, and we still got the kill and the loot, they should be punished anyways".

You should be able to see where this becomes a problem. Because if not, you are already drunk off the cool aid.

LuffyP99

08-06-2021, 03:34 AM

sajbert

08-06-2021, 05:35 AM

The way ST poached members from all competing guilds over the years to make a mega-zerg guild with 3x the active raiding population as other guilds, and can still completely screw over another guild and walk away without so much as a slap on the wrist is beyond me. To even throw the around the terminology fair competition after the repeated and consistent, toxic and arrogant persona that defines them, is laughable. In the middle of the night, they field 90 members and insta-engage all targets. They have 100's of mouths to feed, but what their members don't realize is the way their gearing system works benefits the top 40% RA members and leave the lower members holding the bag. But at least the lower members on the totem pole will eventually get their primal weapons and then they can leave the toxic leadership because they're no longer obligated to stay. A solution would be bag limits, but god forbid ST didn't take 90% of the content on non-quake weeks. Train another guild repeatedly and asking for a concession? Get real, the gm's are not stepping in, and the problem is only going to get worse as their weekly gearing will ramp up and they can clear/monopolize all content faster. Yeah, this is a lot like the classic we all remember. Not, it's a disgrace.
Sure, the chunk of ST members doesn't get anything but scraps as the turbo-addicts monopolize the loot. But, without ST I don't see that being changed. It's not as if ST is hiding anything either, their loot system is documented for all members to see, granted its needless complexity may for some players obscure how screwed they are.

Everyone's free to join another guild but I doubt their chances of getting pixels would be any better. Perhaps I'm wrong, even if we don't consider VP and ToV loot.

Raiding in this game isn't good. It doesn't lend to fun or a healthy lifestyle. Can't blame ST for that.

As for whatever happened now with FoW, don't know, don't care and there can be sanctions. It HAS happened before.

drackgon

08-06-2021, 08:06 AM

/popcorn
<--not in either of these guilds, but doubt anything will happen to any parties. Bc "were all victims here".
I love how peeps want this moved to RNF.

Btw OP is a good guy one of the very few in ST I actually /respect.

Baler

08-06-2021, 08:53 AM

I am a member of Seal Team, and I love my Yankee Boomer friends

Hi, i'm just saving this quote for later. please don't hide this thread. Thanks! :)

plzrelax

08-06-2021, 10:20 AM

Enable PvP in raid zones like tov, st, and vp

Darkwoo

08-06-2021, 12:01 PM

Is this the kind of crap that keeps people interested in P99?

RevSaber

08-06-2021, 01:04 PM

You guys wipe to the trash pulls when theres 120 people there (2 guilds) get fkn good jeez. Id ban both guilds for suckage

Delekhan

08-06-2021, 02:09 PM

Is this the kind of crap that keeps people interested in P99?

If you are referring to the forced social interactions due to the lack of instancing that results in drama and all the other things that come with sharing content? Yeah, that's EverQuest. If this sort of stuff is intolerable for you (understandably so), there's a very long list of MMO's (including Live) that have eliminated these problems that may interest you.

Darkwoo

08-06-2021, 03:26 PM

If you are referring to the forced social interactions due to the lack of instancing that results in drama and all the other things that come with sharing content? Yeah, that's EverQuest. If this sort of stuff is intolerable for you (understandably so), there's a very long list of MMO's (including Live) that have eliminated these problems that may interest you.

A simple "yes" would have sufficed.

There are a lot of fun adventures to be had in P99 and it's very sad that most of you prefer to do this instead.

Tunabros

08-06-2021, 03:27 PM

petition was denied =O

Imposter

08-06-2021, 03:50 PM

kinda fucked that you can lock down a guild with accidental trains indefinitely while go around killing all the other dragons and only have to concede that dragon for your griefing efforts.

Delekhan

08-06-2021, 05:57 PM

A simple "yes" would have sufficed.

There are a lot of fun adventures to be had in P99 and it's very sad that most of you prefer to do this instead.

My response is outlining that this is what EverQuest is. By design, we are forced to socially interact which will inevitably create conflict. It's not a matter of desire, nobody craves conflict, but that's literally what this game is designed to do (interact). I am not sure how else to explain it to you. Yes, that social interaction is what makes human beings tick and why EQ is so addictive.

As I said, if that's not your thing, this is not the game for you.

drackgon

08-06-2021, 06:07 PM

kinda fucked that you can lock down a guild with accidental trains indefinitely while go around killing all the other dragons and only have to concede that dragon for your griefing efforts.

Apparently it’s new Meta. Why have to race when you can force peeps into hour long Cr and just give up a single target, while y’all go on and get the rest.

beaon

08-06-2021, 06:10 PM

The problem with your logic here is that "intention" never mattered. All that mattered was the result of the action committed.

That is right. That is how it should be. That is what "my logic" is trying to argue, perhaps poorly.

It sounds like the result was that FoW got completely fucked over by ST regardless if ST "intended" to cause such harm or not, and hopefully the punishment will reflect that.

I mean FoW got the dragon AND 2 weeks of concessions from ST on 2 dragons. That is potentially 6x dragons. FWIW they positioned their raid force leaving very little margin of error for competing bodies. They sat under the nose of the encounter. IDk if that is strategic preference or what but that is their prerogative. The fact that you just assumed ST got the kill and didn't bow out immediately shows the bias in the discussion.

For two weeks 3 different guilds have been exchanging trains with each other on this specific spot. You only saw petitions from one of them.

Its funny to me though that the top guild always behaves the same, regardless of who is in that position.

This might speak to more of your perception of things. Thank god staff was there and watched the whole thing. They know it wasn't nefarious. Staff threw out the petition already.

https://i.imgur.com/HiNhus9.png

When they fuck up and accidently train a competing guild somehow they always find a way to play victim

I think it is reasonable for people to be annoyed when they are accused of things presented in partial truths. Part of my sarcasm you previously noted was due to major chunks of the story being left out. I don't think it was intentional by these folk here I just think folk sometimes get caught up in the moment or become misinformed. Sometimes willfully idk. My sarcasm is there because it happens literally every time. Seal Team gets a lot of attention but FWIW its not always other guilds vs Seal Team. Guilds on p99 in general treat each other poorly. People are more concerned with postulating, being right, being vindictive, and getting free concessions. (And not always against ST)

and find some convoluted way to spin the blame on the actual victim.

That is an unfortunate perception you have. ST screwed up and owned it. No one in ST leadership is saying this is their fault. I am sure people have their opinions, as do I, in how FoW positions their raid force for this specific encounter, but that isn't what this is about. I never played on Blue but my experience in ST has shown that the server has very unhealthy misconceptions between other guilds. Not just with the top guild. But if people think that after almost a decade of p99 that the top guild is somehow always the asshole then maybe the perception and understanding of what is going on might be skewed.

But when the opposite happens, and the top guild is trained or literally anything happens, even when it doesn't affect the outcome and the top guild still ends up with the kill,

Well the top guild didn't get the kill AND ST didn't file a petition until AFTER FoW filed theirs. I assume ST will drop their petition now that staff has dismissed FOW's.

"Intention" should not be factored into a GM decision, because it cannot be proven,

I agree but I am speaking more in the context of our community and how we address each other. There is a vindictive tone here. I know folk have been wronged in the past and even some petition rulings have gone poorly which have created lasting grudges. I am challenging us to work away from that.

and that's why ST will try to use it the best they can to spin spin spin, baby!

If you think only the "top guild" is spinning stuff and no one else you might be part of the problem.

You should be able to see where this becomes a problem. Because if not, you are already drunk off the cool aid.

Either we treat each other like peers and colleagues on a shared server or we speak past each other, accuse each other, constantly and routinely assume the worst in each other. We just turn into blue.

hannahgrams

08-06-2021, 06:40 PM

most messed up part is it wasnt even ST it was some lvl 5 half elf bard named davidslash

Robot

08-06-2021, 08:02 PM

most messed up part is it wasnt even ST it was some lvl 5 half elf bard named davidslash

sounds like a gang member tbh xD

Albanwr

08-06-2021, 08:12 PM

I didnt read all of that. But you list FoW as having some punishment coming from the train that ST caused them. (3 times in 2 spawn cycles at the same area).

Why would FoW need to get punishment for been trained by another guild multiple times in 2 spawn cycles? And there was a GM that witnessed the first training and maybe even the second from the Rogue.

Darkwoo

08-06-2021, 09:10 PM

My response is outlining that this is what EverQuest is. By design, we are forced to socially interact which will inevitably create conflict. It's not a matter of desire, nobody craves conflict, but that's literally what this game is designed to do (interact). I am not sure how else to explain it to you. Yes, that social interaction is what makes human beings tick and why EQ is so addictive.

As I said, if that's not your thing, this is not the game for you.

Keep in mind that at one point Green and Teal had close to 2,000 concurrent users (4,000 players total). People come to P99 looking for the classic Everquest experience and instead find a bunch of drama queens like you.

Delekhan

08-07-2021, 12:06 AM

Keep in mind that at one point Green and Teal had close to 2,000 concurrent users (4,000 players total). People come to P99 looking for the classic Everquest experience and instead find a bunch of drama queens like you.

Calling me a drama queen yet the one doing the attacking. Maybe you belong here after all.

Delekhan

08-07-2021, 12:32 AM

Apparently it’s new Meta. Why have to race when you can force peeps into hour long Cr and just give up a single target, while y’all go on and get the rest.

Apparently, those who haven't set foot in ntov on green have a lot to say about the situation up there.

YendorLootmonkey

08-07-2021, 01:37 AM

Apparently, those who haven't set foot in ntov on green have a lot to say about the situation up there.

Typically you don't have to reach your hand into a diaper to know there's shit in there.

turbosilk

08-07-2021, 03:38 PM

Keep in mind that at one point Green and Teal had close to 2,000 concurrent users (4,000 players total). People come to P99 looking for the classic Everquest experience and instead find a bunch of drama queens like you.

Exactly. That's why you go to servers like th e Firiona Vie project for drama free raids and collaborative sever wide raids.

Albanwr

08-07-2021, 03:43 PM

another Saturday another shit show.

Tunabros

08-07-2021, 04:56 PM

u can clearly see from the videos that ST didn't do it on purpose

it was just one guy who fucked it up and quicken going "Aw man! your suppose to DA!! blah blah blah"

plus they already conceded...so 2 ST free dragons for FoW coming up

what more to complain about lol

its not like they can kill NToV mobs right now

RaefLaFrenz

08-08-2021, 09:58 AM

bump for new FoW vs Seal Team petition this week

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SfaLO7-VJcub9delsLKRlNUK3sXA1nEW0CfDYMjjmXM/edit?usp=sharing

Baler

08-08-2021, 10:06 AM

I remember when raiding was about figuring out the best way to down a target.

Not about OBSing rule infringements.

matticas

08-08-2021, 10:31 AM

The way ST poached members from all competing guilds over the years...

What would you suggest we do? Should we NOT allow all people to apply? We execute well and have strong leadership, so it's no surprise people who want a higher caliber guild choose to join us.

Making this about 'poaching' is pitiful. You're playing the victim when you need to look inward.

Look. Inward. Play better, smarter, faster. You can absolutely win targets, but dragging the raid scene into tit-for-tat petition-quest is pathetic.

fortior

08-08-2021, 10:32 AM

poaching, lol.

CancerMage

08-08-2021, 11:43 AM

can ye imagine being in a guild other than ST, doing majority of the socking, side quests to make the guild succesful but a very limited amount of other people are doing the same thing? All to lose the majority of the time on dragon days?

This isn't poaching, it's other guilds highly invested players realizing they want to be among their peers.

RevSaber

08-08-2021, 02:39 PM

120 people died to trash mobs... You guys are getting off topic

Scalem

08-08-2021, 07:47 PM

People should try going outside.

LuffyP99

08-09-2021, 01:25 AM

What would you suggest we do? Should we NOT allow all people to apply? We execute well and have strong leadership, so it's no surprise people who want a higher caliber guild choose to join us.

Making this about 'poaching' is pitiful. You're playing the victim when you need to look inward.

Look. Inward. Play better, smarter, faster. You can absolutely win targets, but dragging the raid scene into tit-for-tat petition-quest is pathetic.

Lol, ST’s actions are what’s pathetic. Creating the biggest Zerg force relative to competing guilds in history and barking all over how you love competition. There’s high caliber players in smaller guilds, but when the Zerg cherry picks those players by offering them incentives to join and recruiting through private messages, that’s poaching. Monopolizing targets by throwing 2x the number of bodies as the next guild is not skill, it’s zerg. If you’re proud of that, good for you, I’m just calling it what it is. Don’t get so defensive, competing guilds are still trying for targets, so maybe you should get back recruiting and maintain that 50% of server pop metric.

fortior

08-09-2021, 08:09 AM

sorry you're not good enough to be PMed about getting free loot

Delekhan

08-09-2021, 09:11 AM

With infinite time and no competition, anyone can kill these dragons with 40-50 people. It is not realistic to expect this scenario to unfold for you on P99, so why do you expect it to be so? If you bring 45 people to Aaryonar, ST will engage with Aary + a flurry and dunk on you like this last cycle. The same goes for every other encounter. The difficulty will continue to increase until it's out of your reach and you will never get dragon loot until you compete.

Lostfaction

08-09-2021, 10:13 AM

Lol, ST’s actions are what’s pathetic. Creating the biggest Zerg force relative to competing guilds in history and barking all over how you love competition. There’s high caliber players in smaller guilds, but when the Zerg cherry picks those players by offering them incentives to join and recruiting through private messages, that’s poaching. Monopolizing targets by throwing 2x the number of bodies as the next guild is not skill, it’s zerg. If you’re proud of that, good for you, I’m just calling it what it is. Don’t get so defensive, competing guilds are still trying for targets, so maybe you should get back recruiting and maintain that 50% of server pop metric.

this is just lol

Convict

08-09-2021, 11:39 AM

Delekhan

08-09-2021, 11:52 AM

ah and just how they want it. No competition and uncontested loot as they continue to absorb players from every guild.

I suppose we have very different ideas on what competition means. If you want to compete you will have to earn it for yourself and the competition will work hard to beat you. ST is unlikely to give you free dragons if that's what you feel should happen.

I suggest farming Hot, level bots, get vp keys and build infrastructure. Crying to GMs is not an effective long term plan.

Otherwise, you are only wasting your time.

matticas

08-09-2021, 11:55 AM

If you’re proud...

As a founding member of Seal Team and a long-time raider on Blue, I'm definitely proud of what we've built. We are the most successful raid guild in P99 history. We've made mistakes, we're not perfect (obviously, lol), but we've played the game well and are having an insanely fun time along the way.

Actually, this is probably the most fun I've had playing an MMO. I hope you're able to enjoy it as much as we have.

Kahan

08-09-2021, 12:32 PM

ah and just how they want it. No competition and uncontested loot as they continue to absorb players from every guild.

Imagine looking at a guild who has the skill and ability to engage Aary +1, or Vulak +1, or any ntov dragon plus at least 1 guard, and shit talking them. We don't want competition? You're trashcan guilds literally want bag limits / rotations / seal team raid banned so you can have NO COMPETITION DRAGONS, you fucking dumpster fire.

YendorLootmonkey

08-09-2021, 12:35 PM

I hope you're able to enjoy it as much as we have.

We can't. We never can. Because people like you and those in your guild force everyone into turning a video game into a full time job in order to "compete", on every iteration of this server.

Twochain

08-09-2021, 01:01 PM

Okay guys, let's go through a history lesson real quick.

Eashen, LTK, Doze, and most of the northern wing ESPECIALLY Vulak will always be a shit show with rooted dragons. This time it was someone AFK in ST, next week it will be someone on the other side. How do I know? Because i've seen it for over 2 years now. The only time there wasn't issues at these mobs weekly was when Riot was the only guild really going after them.

So in my eyes you have two options.

Option 1: WhineQuest.

Yes, they accidentally trained you again. At least it seems that way. 2 days later and 10 hours of fraps watched later, it was actually your own mage who missed the wall with an eyeball and agro'd those mobs. If you even get a resolution. To GM's and bystanders, the fraps looks like Chaos, with very little evidence of a smoking gun. To your guild, it's clear as day they trained you on purpose. To the other guild, you guys won't stop trying to rule lawyer your way into free mobs. Rinse, and repeat. Also hope your bringing 100 people to the raid, because you'll need it.

Option 2 Civilized AdultQuest

Full rotations should never be a thing for end game mobs. So you settle this with FTE races and lockouts. This would:

Remove poop socking, the real ideal way to do this is to start race with a rolloff 5 minutes after spawn.

Removes petition quest for every mob, you win FTE, or you don't, and then you move on.

The most dedicated to getting end game loot will still end up getting it. AS IS INTENDED IN CLASSIC EVERQUEST. You lost? Practice and do better. (Although, NToV will become more of a crapshoot as there are so many mobs that can 1 round someone. This will give an advantage to guilds who have NO shot of killing a mob in NToV now, but realistically the more organized guilds will win the majority)

Extend roll offs to 30 minutes for Dain and KT. WHY? BECAUSE PEOPLE NEED TO TURN IN THEIR QUESTS. WHO WANTS TO POOP SOCK A MOB FOR 14 HOURS TO MISS THEIR TURN IN BECAUSE THEY WERE IN THE BATHROOM FOR 45 SECONDS? THIS IS HUMANE.

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Realistically, if somebody from ST accidentally retrained them because they were AFK, there shouldn't be additional punishment besides a concede. However, it's impossible to tell from an outside perspective if it WAS an accident, i'm sure the other guild felt wronged on purpose. Realistically it probably was just an accident. There are other things to consider though. Was there another mob up? If yes, ST should offer a pause until the other guild is fully rez'd. If not? No harm no foul, they lost the mob and had to concede, that's the punishment. Yes, the other guild will have to go through yet another corpse recovery..... but that's going to be week in and week out in ToV.

Guild leaders, come together and figure out resolutions, because if you always rely on GM's to settle your petty disputes over something as chaotic as raiding NToV rooted dragons, you're going to have a bad time. (SEE: Bag limits, indifference, ETC.)

Take note that the GM's don't have a special screen where they can tell who did what when and on purpose. Most logs are dropped after a mob drops agro. A GM floating above a raid as a wipe is happening pretty much isn't able to tell what exactly what's going down. And then from there, it becomes FrapsQuest... which is the absolute worst Quest this game offers.

Raiding on P99 is more fun than raiding anywhere else though, in my opinion, so enjoy yourselves out there. 99 times out of 100, the other guild isn't acting nefariously, and is just as confused on what is happening as you are.

YendorLootmonkey

08-09-2021, 01:01 PM

Imagine looking at a guild who has the skill and ability to engage Aary +1, or Vulak +1, or any ntov dragon plus at least 1 guard, and shit talking them. We don't want competition? You're trashcan guilds literally want bag limits / rotations / seal team raid banned so you can have NO COMPETITION DRAGONS, you fucking dumpster fire.

Well, let's not conveniently forget how super pissy ST got about bag limits on Trak because you wanted VP all to yourselves, with NO COMPETITION.

And the second you get competition in NTOV, what do you do? Send an individual out to dump a train on the other guild and coach your fall guy to claim it was an accident in /tells so your petition defense looks good? Just... LOL dude.

They want FAIR competition. Not what you guys decide is competition.

Your definition of competition is actually monopolization... the elimination of any true competition.

Tilien

08-09-2021, 01:19 PM

Twochain

08-09-2021, 01:56 PM

The definition of competition on a PvE server is basically arbitrary.

Why FTE and not just DPS race? Why is training not allowed? Why are dragons rooted? Why can't a guild engage multiple targets in multiple zones? Why are there start lines, rules about CoTH, limits on number of trackers, etc?

The competition might as well be "Have a foot race from ToV zone in to PoM. Winner picks x dragons for the next spawn cycle, then second place picks y dragons, and third picks z dragons".

It's all arbitrary anyway.

FTE races are fun, adrenaline pumping, and final. DPS races favor guilds with primals. In fact you just straight up wont win a mob if you don't have 5-6 primal rogues in your guild. Not only that, DPS races will become a gigantic headache for the staff. In more ways than I can count.

I bring this up because The Blue server did this, and there was very little issues with that system. It sure beats bag limits. Which WILL be brought to ToV if green can't get their ducks in a row.

Delekhan

08-09-2021, 02:03 PM

Well, let's not conveniently forget how super pissy ST got about bag limits on Trak because you wanted VP all to yourselves, with NO COMPETITION.

And the second you get competition in NTOV, what do you do? Send an individual out to dump a train on the other guild and coach your fall guy to claim it was an accident in /tells so your petition defense looks good? Just... LOL dude.

They want FAIR competition. Not what you guys decide is competition.

Your definition of competition is actually monopolization... the elimination of any true competition.

My God the rage, the jealousy. Nobody trained you on purpose. Nobody cares enough about you to train you on purpose.

Cothing to trips and waiting around is not a threat to anyone. Try to practice and build up the right way instead of fishing for concessions.

Tilien

08-09-2021, 02:16 PM

FTE races are fun, adrenaline pumping, and final. DPS races favor guilds with primals. In fact you just straight up wont win a mob if you don't have 5-6 primal rogues in your guild. Not only that, DPS races will become a gigantic headache for the staff. In more ways than I can count.

I bring this up because The Blue server did this, and there was very little issues with that system. It sure beats bag limits. Which WILL be brought to ToV if green can't get their ducks in a row.

None of this is counter to what I said. Competition rules are arbitrary, especially on a PvE server. "EXP group loots and distributes" is straight forward and final, as well. It is a little funny you say that FTE is straight forward and final when it apparently creates mountains of petitions.

Like take rules for engaging only 1 yellow text mobs for example: Does that make the race more fun if you can only engage 1 mob? Does it make CSR's job easier? Not really, all it does it make it so one guild can't monopolize. Again, arbitrary.

Again, you could just have some race or competition without the actual raid mob spawned to determine who gets mobs in the next cycle and save a ton of headache for everyone (no poop socking, no point or reason for trains to exist etc, if you wipe due to train just set up and go it again since you already won.). This fits all your criteria of having adrenaline/fun/saving headaches.

The

08-09-2021, 03:46 PM

Again, you could just have some race or competition without the actual raid mob spawned to determine who gets mobs in the next cycle and save a ton of headache for everyone (no poop socking, no point or reason for trains to exist etc, if you wipe due to train just set up and go it again since you already won.). This fits all your criteria of having adrenaline/fun/saving headaches.

This is sort of true, in that the competition rules can be whatever the server at large ultimately agrees they should be and the GMs back up. We have races and thus we have race rules and FTEs. If the server decided, eventually, that competition will take the form of a gnome race, or that each guild wanting raid targets sent a "champion" to the arena on a set day of the week for a mini-botb, or we had races of small FTE teams ala noble race , then that's what it would be and the race rules would be rendered void (except in that last example, probably). Competition as a concept is likely to always exist on P99 in some form, it's just that certain forms are easier to build towards or offer a wider more leveled playing field.

Which brings me to my second understanding of the raid scene in general: We have a meta on p99 that a lot of top guilds over the years have built towards as that is the structure that is most rewarded under the rule constraints. The rules as they stand reward giant forces with lots of able bodies to throw at an encounter, and people with enough free time to stare at walls for x hours and call/respond to batphones. IMO, this is not very inclusive and favors those willing or able to turn p99 into a side gig.

Because of this meta and guilds building towards it, we have a staunch opposition to having the raid scene defined any other way. If we had a majority rule voting body with GM enforced results of the vote this might be mitigated but that doesn't seem likely to happen. Also majority voting platforms are obviously susceptible to their own problems. I think there are ways to fix this and make the end game scene more inclusive and less of a headache for the GMs, but the player base has become accustomed to certain things by now and their inertia seems to hold us back from getting to that point.

Twochain

08-09-2021, 04:23 PM

None of this is counter to what I said. Competition rules are arbitrary, especially on a PvE server. "EXP group loots and distributes" is straight forward and final, as well. It is a little funny you say that FTE is straight forward and final when it apparently creates mountains of petitions.

Like take rules for engaging only 1 yellow text mobs for example: Does that make the race more fun if you can only engage 1 mob? Does it make CSR's job easier? Not really, all it does it make it so one guild can't monopolize. Again, arbitrary.

Again, you could just have some race or competition without the actual raid mob spawned to determine who gets mobs in the next cycle and save a ton of headache for everyone (no poop socking, no point or reason for trains to exist etc, if you wipe due to train just set up and go it again since you already won.). This fits all your criteria of having adrenaline/fun/saving headaches.

Racing with 1 hour lockouts literally remove all chance to petition, unless you think somebody is running faster than everyone else. The mob spawns, 5 minutes later you roll, FTE goes out, that guild has the mob for an hour. From there, it is very easy to come up with a set of guidelines on the locks, such as if another mob spawns right next to it, ETC.

Compare this to wiping at Eashen ramp for 3 hours at 3am. Or 6 hour Vulak kills with 4 zone wide wipes. This is exactly what you're looking at, and it's only going to get worse as more people/guilds show up to contest these mobs. It's not a matter of one guild cheating or not. It's just inevitably what will happen. I know this from 2 years of experience in this meta. From there, tempers flare, people sling mud, and try to always try to blame someone when in reality it's just the nature of 200 people sitting on top of each other trying to kill the same mob.

P99 is the only server out there, in any game, which offers a competitive PVE environment. This should be one of the most celebrated parts of our servers, however, anybody who brings up P99 on something like reddit you will immediately see a comment about how p99 is awesome but "the raid scene is awful". And I think this is largely perceived incorrectly.

To the other poster, I disagree with you about a raid democracy. I think the GM's would have fluttering hearts if 70-75% of the raid community came together and agreed on something that would ultimately give them less petitionquesting to wade through.

AND if we came together as a community, we really could see something like "October is Tournament Mode" Where guilds have to compete in various ways to win that weeks lot of mobs. Guild vs Guild pvp, 1v1 pvp (although sadly this is generally a gear check), HELL, Freeport to Temple of Veeshan gnome races. Whatever we wanted to do. Because at the end of the day, we have this content for literally ever. Doing something fun or different for a month won't matter at all (especially on the blue server, i'm sure ST would cry a little bit about a gnome race at this point in Green)

tadkins

08-09-2021, 04:43 PM

P99 is the only server out there, in any game, which offers a competitive PVE environment. This should be one of the most celebrated parts of our servers, however, anybody who brings up P99 on something like reddit you will immediately see a comment about how p99 is awesome but "the raid scene is awful". And I think this is largely perceived incorrectly.

How is it not awful though? What chance does the little guy have in this kind of environment? I'm only someone who just wants to see Plane of Hate and Innoruuk one time face to face before I die, and in this cutthroat environment, based on the threads I've seen on these forums, I'm honestly worried I won't even get to do that.

Why can't we just play nice and share?

Man0warr

08-09-2021, 04:48 PM

Twochain

08-09-2021, 05:15 PM

How is it not awful though? What chance does the little guy have in this kind of environment? I'm only someone who just wants to see Plane of Hate and Innoruuk one time face to face before I die, and in this cutthroat environment, based on the threads I've seen on these forums, I'm honestly worried I won't even get to do that.

Why can't we just play nice and share?

While this may be true to an EXTENT, playing EverQuest in classic very much reflects your experience. My father played EQ hours a day almost every day, and didn't have a max level character until Luclin. I remember our guild <Noble Lions> HARD wiping to Vindi somewhere around the end of Luclin.

However if you're a casual player, you can absolutely experience that content on p99, even p99 Green. Will you kill Inny during Classic at level 50? Probably not, as you are not really a casual player if you get to level 50 during classic. But during this era? If you reach max level, you will absolutely be able to get in to a guild that does that content. If you're in a guild with 9 friends you made along the way, and none of them have max level characters, that's on you for staying in that guild if you want to experience more content, although it's not necessarily a wrong choice.

For the record, I've been in a hard core raiding guild since 2017 and have killed Inny exactly once - and that was when I was in a casual guild. Anonymous. On the very rare occasions that my guild goes for Inny, I don't bother to show up. (I play on the blue server, my highest level green toon is sub 10.)

tadkins

08-09-2021, 05:29 PM

However if you're a casual player, you can absolutely experience that content on p99, even p99 Green. Will you kill Inny during Classic at level 50? Probably not, as you are not really a casual player if you get to level 50 during classic. But during this era? If you reach max level, you will absolutely be able to get in to a guild that does that content. If you're in a guild with 9 friends you made along the way, and none of them have max level characters, that's on you for staying in that guild if you want to experience more content, although it's not necessarily a wrong choice.

There's no guarantee that a guild will invite me though. I've been guildless for months now, and the couple of guilds I have had on this server throughout the last year and a half haven't really been very guild-like; they didn't want to do anything with me, weren't interested in offering help, didn't seem to care that I am genuinely new to the later levels and were all just willing to run ahead and let me die. And I feel like the genuinely bigger, top-end guilds aren't going to be interested in teaching a newbie at all. I am not confident that I would land invites from them.

So I feel like atm my choices are, join a smaller do-nothing guild that gets steamrolled by the top dogs left and right, or try to join a higher-end guild and probably get rejected anyway.

For the record, I've been in a hard core raiding guild since 2017 and have killed Inny exactly once - and that was when I was in a casual guild. Anonymous. On the very rare occasions that my guild goes for Inny, I don't bother to show up. (I play on the blue server, my highest level green toon is sub 10.)

It's a personal thing, when I was a kid I thought Innoruuk was the greatest villain ever. He's still my favorite deity in the EQverse, and back in the day I wished I could have been a part of those big guilds taking down those legendary targets like Inny, CT, Nagafen, etc. But tall order for a kid who had to share a computer at home, was expected to go to school, do homework, etc etc. Never even got to max level in EQ during its heyday lols.

Now I'm a much older person who can feel his body start to give out, and it's still just kind of a dream of mine to one day see Plane of Hate and fight Innoruuk once before it happens. That's really all it is here.

Twochain

08-09-2021, 05:45 PM

There's no guarantee that a guild will invite me though. I've been guildless for months now, and the couple of guilds I have had on this server throughout the last year and a half haven't really been very guild-like; they didn't want to do anything with me, weren't interested in offering help, didn't seem to care that I am genuinely new to the later levels and were all just willing to run ahead and let me die. And I feel like the genuinely bigger, top-end guilds aren't going to be interested in teaching a newbie at all. I am not confident that I would land invites from them.

So I feel like atm my choices are, join a smaller do-nothing guild that gets steamrolled by the top dogs left and right, or try to join a higher-end guild and probably get rejected anyway.

It's a personal thing, when I was a kid I thought Innoruuk was the greatest villain ever. He's still my favorite deity in the EQverse, and back in the day I wished I could have been a part of those big guilds taking down those legendary targets like Inny, CT, Nagafen, etc. But tall order for a kid who had to share a computer at home, was expected to go to school, do homework, etc etc. Never even got to max level in EQ during its heyday lols.

Now I'm a much older person who can feel his body start to give out, and it's still just kind of a dream of mine to one day see Plane of Hate and fight Innoruuk once before it happens. That's really all it is here.

You shouldn't have any issue finding a guild that is willing to accept a newer player. We've had players who had played EverQuest for less than a total month do vital roles in raids (Soulcommander, god i miss you, he was a retired vet in his 50 or 60s)

Joining a guild on p99 isn't what it was like in classic though. You almost always have to apply online to the guild and join their discord. Join any of the largest 5 guilds on Green, and I can almost guarantee you will make your way to taking down that ugly mug.

Once you join a guild, a lot of the "guild activity" may happen in discord/voice, so again, not very much like classic. Guild chat isn't what it used to be in 1999. Also a lot of people are working on their own thing, with friends that they made while in guild, so just randomly proclaiming "hey does anyone wanna farm ry gorr?" Won't usually get much response. So my advice to you would be to join any one of those guilds, and just show up for things and be friendly. Eventually, you will find exactly what you are looking for.

Also get to 60 if you're not already! =)

tadkins

08-09-2021, 05:51 PM

You shouldn't have any issue finding a guild that is willing to accept a newer player. We've had players who had played EverQuest for less than a total month do vital roles in raids (Soulcommander, god i miss you, he was a retired vet in his 50 or 60s)

Joining a guild on p99 isn't what it was like in classic though. You almost always have to apply online to the guild and join their discord. Join any of the largest 5 guilds on Green, and I can almost guarantee you will make your way to taking down that ugly mug.

Once you join a guild, a lot of the "guild activity" may happen in discord/voice, so again, not very much like classic. Guild chat isn't what it used to be in 1999. Also a lot of people are working on their own thing, with friends that they made while in guild, so just randomly proclaiming "hey does anyone wanna farm ry gorr?" Won't usually get much response. So my advice to you would be to join any one of those guilds, and just show up for things and be friendly. Eventually, you will find exactly what you are looking for.

Also get to 60 if you're not already! =)

I have no problems with discord, was in the discord of each of the guilds I was in. I'm not always super talkative, partly because I'm so used to being ignored that i'm honestly reluctant to ask for anything.

In both guilds I was in recently, I kept asking for help with Karnor's Castle so my wizard could get to the human skeleton somewhere in there for the Brain Bite spell quest. I had never been to KC beyond the entrance for using the EJ evac spell, so I definitely needed help. I could never muster a strike force for it within the guild and I ended up just quitting the wizard class as a result. I'm a druid now, currently level 24 lols.

Just honestly not sure what to do, if there even is a helpful guild out there, and I don't know whether they'd even be willing to toss me an invite.

Twochain

08-09-2021, 06:14 PM

I have no problems with discord, was in the discord of each of the guilds I was in. I'm not always super talkative, partly because I'm so used to being ignored that i'm honestly reluctant to ask for anything.

In both guilds I was in recently, I kept asking for help with Karnor's Castle so my wizard could get to the human skeleton somewhere in there for the Brain Bite spell quest. I had never been to KC beyond the entrance for using the EJ evac spell, so I definitely needed help. I could never muster a strike force for it within the guild and I ended up just quitting the wizard class as a result. I'm a druid now, currently level 24 lols.

Just honestly not sure what to do, if there even is a helpful guild out there, and I don't know whether they'd even be willing to toss me an invite.

This is something that you should have asked an enchanter/necro to do individually, instead of asking a whole guild. All you need is an enchanter that knows what he's doing, he can pacify/lull safely to jail and get the quest mob for you. If i was personally desperate to get something done like this, i'd /who 55 60 enchanter all and offer them plat to help

tadkins

08-09-2021, 06:22 PM

This is something that you should have asked an enchanter/necro to do individually, instead of asking a whole guild. All you need is an enchanter that knows what he's doing, he can pacify/lull safely to jail and get the quest mob for you. If i was personally desperate to get something done like this, i'd /who 55 60 enchanter all and offer them plat to help

I just remember asking for help because I had never been to KC before, and that is what i meant by folks not being friendly to newbies. I'm guessing that many folks on this server have been doing this content for 20+ years, and the thought that someone might not have been to a place in classic might be an alien one at this point. There's so many weird twists and turns and tricks that people like to use, and the thought of accidently stumbling and aggroing some mobs is a terrifying one. That's mainly why I was hoping for a guild strike force of sorts, to do a good ol' fashioned dungeon crawl cutting our way through the place.

I did ultimately try to do it solo, went splat pretty quickly though.

There was also the time I asked for help because I was struggling greatly to crawl out of level 51 on my wizard, who kept dying every other quad attempt because of backstabbing birds in TD. I just wanted to do a dungeon with them or something, anything to get back to a positive exp gain, but there I was ignored too.

Maybe I'm just expecting too much from a guild, but I thought they were supposed to be communities that looked out for each other and helped with the growth of their members. I had hoped that all of the transfers and ports I did for my guilds would show my willingness toward comraderie.

adruidarkly

08-10-2021, 10:50 AM

Domo if you keep making public posts like this you'll get sent to the Safe Space gulag with the other ex-ST that rubbed their leaders the wrong way

matticas

08-10-2021, 11:39 AM

(Soulcommander, god i miss you, he was a retired vet in his 50 or 60s)

Great guy, and the luckiest dice ever. <3 <3 <3

Twochain

08-10-2021, 01:03 PM

Great guy, and the luckiest dice ever. <3 <3 <3

He had to have been Rogean's dad or something right?

For context for the rest of you, this man played p99 for less than 3 months, and in that span:

Won Mage Epic(lmao there are mages on blue who have been trying for epic for over half a decade at this point)
Won 3+ Fungi tunics
Won 2x T-staffs !!!!!!!!!!!!! i've never even seen one drop. He zoned into KC once and it was just up with staff, and won the roll on the other
Full SS gear out of hot, pretty much immediately upon joining. (won rolls for the drops)

That's not even the half of it. Had to have been the absolute luckiest player to ever play this game. Couldn't have happened to a better guy. I hope he's doing okay.

jwj1285

08-12-2021, 06:29 PM

but what their members don't realize is the way their gearing system works benefits the top 40% RA members and leave the lower members holding the bag.

I was one of the Lower members at the start of velious and I have more items than most of the leadership. Obviously you know nothing about the guilds loot system so good luck with your tin foil sales on etsy

Man0warr

08-12-2021, 11:08 PM

I was one of the Lower members at the start of velious and I have more items than most of the leadership. Obviously you know nothing about the guilds loot system so good luck with your tin foil sales on etsy

Really, you on top of the lists for all that sweet Vulak and Warder loot?

matticas

08-13-2021, 10:30 AM

Our system actually enables brand new arrivals to get top tier loot right away. It's actually a little frustrating to some of our long-time raiders, but it results in the average raider getting great items early. It's happening for us literally every day. :)

fortior

08-14-2021, 04:16 AM

what their members don't realize is the way their gearing system works benefits the top 40% RA members

I don't see the problem? every gearing system is going to benefit people who play more, because they are at the events where gear drops. are you simple?

sajbert

08-14-2021, 04:37 AM

I was one of the Lower members at the start of velious and I have more items than most of the leadership. Obviously you know nothing about the guilds loot system so good luck with your tin foil sales on etsy

How many of ST members even qualify for raider status? What are the truly desired items that you have?

fortior

08-14-2021, 04:44 AM

how does the loot system even matter? a super great and fair loot system isn't gonna help your guild if you kill one dragon a month, lol.

unsunghero

08-14-2021, 12:49 PM

I have no problems with discord, was in the discord of each of the guilds I was in. I'm not always super talkative, partly because I'm so used to being ignored that i'm honestly reluctant to ask for anything.

In both guilds I was in recently, I kept asking for help with Karnor's Castle so my wizard could get to the human skeleton somewhere in there for the Brain Bite spell quest. I had never been to KC beyond the entrance for using the EJ evac spell, so I definitely needed help. I could never muster a strike force for it within the guild and I ended up just quitting the wizard class as a result. I'm a druid now, currently level 24 lols.

Just honestly not sure what to do, if there even is a helpful guild out there, and I don't know whether they'd even be willing to toss me an invite.

Your wiz is already lev 51? I remember back when you were talking about killing spiders in the Karanas with him. You definitely did a good job leveling at least, way better than I. Sorry about hearing about the quest difficulties

tadkins

08-14-2021, 04:41 PM

Your wiz is already lev 51? I remember back when you were talking about killing spiders in the Karanas with him. You definitely did a good job leveling at least, way better than I. Sorry about hearing about the quest difficulties

He's 53 now, but he's basically all but retired. I sold off all his gear to try a shaman. I got to 16 on him before I couldn't take it anymore, exchanged a few pieces of gear, and rolled a druid instead.

Tunabros

09-08-2021, 08:05 PM

FoW (ven/lotus) already have a long history of asking for free mobs and begging

for welfare pixels

what's new? lol

Balimon

09-09-2021, 01:06 AM

FoW (ven/lotus) already have a long history of asking for free mobs and begging

for welfare pixels

what's new? lol

Nice necro, as usual you know little about what you comment on. Lately your posts are so angry and vindictive, what gives man?

Tunabros

09-09-2021, 01:16 AM

Nice necro, as usual you know little about what you comment on. Lately your posts are so angry and vindictive, what gives man?

lol I've been on green since launch. What do you mean?

Swish

09-09-2021, 05:49 PM

lol I've been on green since launch. What do you mean?

how dare you

Danth

09-09-2021, 06:09 PM

a super great and fair loot system isn't gonna help your guild if you kill one dragon a month, lol.

What's the relative population between the two entities? If it's something like 40 folks getting one a month versus 100 folks getting the other three a month then it wouldn't be all that large a difference proportionally. Large guilds frequently get around that problem by funneling drops to the folks with highest activity, at the cost of leaving the less-active fluff members with very little opportunity for advancement.

Danth

Albanwr

09-09-2021, 06:45 PM

lol I've been on green since launch. What do you mean?

necro means pulling up old threads just to talk shit.

And the rest should be self explanatory.

TripSin

09-10-2021, 12:19 AM

Nice necro, as usual you know little about what you comment on. Lately your posts are so angry and vindictive, what gives man?

Only just lately? Most of Tunabros posts have been garbage in my time seeing them here, which has been at least a year.

Castle2.0

09-10-2021, 09:56 AM

Nice necro, as usual you know little about what you comment on. Lately your posts are so angry and vindictive, what gives man?

+1

Mesocyclone

09-10-2021, 12:52 PM

Ban everyone involved.

Nil

09-10-2021, 04:30 PM

The best parts of this game are Crushbone and Befallen and Blackburrow because all the dorks that fight about this kind of stupid crap quickly outlevel those zones to go fight for other stupid crap.

Wharfrat

09-10-2021, 08:20 PM

My suggestion you ask?.... delete TOV from Velious asap and we can move on happily

Phraxas

09-11-2021, 09:27 AM

My suggestion you ask?.... delete TOV from Velious asap and we can move on happily

Nah what needs to be deleted is peoples mindsets… yesterday in OOC at trips is a perfect example!

“I NEED AN OFFICER RIGHT NOW” - fishing for something their own member caused… egg meet face. That’s the mindset that needs to be deleted not TOV.

Relbaic

09-11-2021, 04:02 PM

Nah what needs to be deleted is peoples mindsets… yesterday in OOC at trips is a perfect example!

“I NEED AN OFFICER RIGHT NOW” - fishing for something their own member caused… egg meet face. That’s the mindset that needs to be deleted not TOV.

[Mon Apr 26 21:51:52 2021] Quickn says out of character, 'BLACK LOTUS. Officer send me a tell'
[Mon Apr 26 21:52:19 2021] Quickn says, 'WHO IS AN OFFICER'
[Mon Apr 26 21:52:20 2021] Quickn says, 'WHO IS AN OFFICER'
[Mon Apr 26 21:52:21 2021] Quickn says, 'WHO IS AN OFFICER'

Just having a little fun, settle down big guy.

Tunabros

09-11-2021, 04:20 PM

that was ages ago dude

Phraxas

09-11-2021, 06:34 PM

[Mon Apr 26 21:51:52 2021] Quickn says out of character, 'BLACK LOTUS. Officer send me a tell'
[Mon Apr 26 21:52:19 2021] Quickn says, 'WHO IS AN OFFICER'
[Mon Apr 26 21:52:20 2021] Quickn says, 'WHO IS AN OFFICER'
[Mon Apr 26 21:52:21 2021] Quickn says, 'WHO IS AN OFFICER'

Just having a little fun, settle down big guy.

yea, but that ended into a FoW suspension...

https://i.imgur.com/tmI45nt.png

Whereas...

[Fri Sep 10 23:23:01 2021] Stormshadow says out of character, 'WHO IS AN OFFICER/'
[Fri Sep 10 23:24:08 2021] Stormshadow says out of character, 'u jsut gonna use some sacrificial mage to agro all that onto our recivery inside trips?, i need an officer'

Lead to...

[Fri Sep 10 23:22:15 2021] Cekenar engages Leffingwell!
[Fri Sep 10 23:22:51 2021] [60 Phantasmist] Leffingwell (Gnome) <Force of Will> ZONE: timorous LFG

[Fri Sep 10 23:22:19 2021] Cekenar engages Quickm!
[Fri Sep 10 23:22:31 2021] Cekenar engages Yuuta!
[Fri Sep 10 23:22:36 2021] Cekenar engages Lizzay!
[Fri Sep 10 23:22:39 2021] Cekenar engages Phatez!
[Fri Sep 10 23:22:41 2021] Cekenar engages Hamedo!
[Fri Sep 10 23:22:44 2021] Cekenar engages Mycrow!
[Fri Sep 10 23:22:45 2021] Cekenar engages Avitar!
[Fri Sep 10 23:22:52 2021] Cekenar engages Gdoorf!
[Fri Sep 10 23:22:52 2021] Cekenar engages Limitts!

There's more but you get the point. I may be wrong but I'm about 95% sure there's a difference between the two request. One ended in suspension the other ended in Stormshadow saying -- hehe or haha or lol or oh fuck me. I'll let you ponder which one he sent to leadership :)

Just having a little fun, settle down big guy.