Worst Group (not raid) Classes?

[eqravenprince]

Worst Group (not raid) Classes?

[eqravenprince]

Wizard is arguably the worst group class, but I still love them. They are are like an ugly girl, you know they'll do anything to impress/satisfy you.

[starkind]

yet 6 wizards can 1 shot all 1 grp content...

[Tunabros]

yet 6 wizards can 1 shot all 1 grp content...

retard alert

[Jibartik]

Wizard is arguably the worst group class, but I still love them. They are are like an ugly girl, you know they'll do anything to impress/satisfy you.

oh yea I agree

there is nothing worse in life than waiting at seb ent for a healer to fill the 6th spot and someone in your group goes, my wizard friend is here can they join?

EXP that night is OVER...

YlGqN3AKOsA

[starkind]

retard alert

A few mobs have over 6k hp lol. So fire giants may need two nukes each. So what. That is the edge of group content in classic.

I almost never visited velious because the mobs have too much hp there.

[eqravenprince]

A few mobs have over 6k hp lol. So fire giants may need two nukes each. So what.

You're right, 6 wizards could outright kill a mob fast and that is very cool. But almost any group content with tank/healer + 4 sustained dps classes would probably kill 2-4x more mobs over the course of an hour.

[eqravenprince]

I'm always shocked to see Druids voted as one of the worst for group content. I'd argue they are one of the best for a small group and certainly no slouch for a full group. Snare, Heals, Harmony, and Damage Shield alone makes them pretty darn good. Maybe I've spent too much time in the pre 50 game, Druids are definitely better than Shamans cause they have snare and damage shield and same heals, slows maybe 50+ are invaluable in the group game, but pre 50 no chance.

With a Cleric/Tank in the group, classes I'd rather have a Druid before
Wizard
Rogue,
Another Tank,
Monk,
Shaman,
Another Cleric

With a Cleric/Tank in the group, classes I'd take over a Druid
Enchanter
Magician
Necromancer
Bard
Ranger

[Danth]

I'm always shocked to see Druids voted as one of the worst for group content.

I'm not. Most folks rate their choices based on a hypothetical perfect group and the druid is at its best as a 6th man in a swing role that sort of future-proofs a group in the event someone else leaves. The druid isn't best at any single job, so it falls in those types of rankings. I like it, though, since if I have a druid in my group I know i still have a burst nuker if the magician leaves, I still have usable crowd control if the enchanter leaves, I still have heals if the cleric leaves, and maybe still a puller (zone dependent) if the monk leaves. Druid is seldom a perfect choice, but it rapidly proves useful when things aren't perfect.

Danth

[starkind]

If you have 6 wizards and can't handle at least 12 mobs, i don't know how to help you :(

[Jimjam]

You're right, 6 wizards could outright kill a mob fast and that is very cool. But almost any group content with tank/healer + 4 sustained dps classes would probably kill 2-4x more mobs over the course of an hour.
They could also kill 25 mobs in about the same amount of time as 1

[eqravenprince]

They could also kill 25 mobs in about the same amount of time as 1

Yes perhaps... not sure what zones you could feasibly do this. How would this work, 1 wizard running around with sow gathering up the 25 mobs. Then the rest of the wizards use targeted AOE spell and hope to god it kills the pack?

[Tunabros]

A few mobs have over 6k hp lol. So fire giants may need two nukes each. So what. That is the edge of group content in classic.

I almost never visited velious because the mobs have too much hp there.

lol and just sit there waiting for mana to regen while mobs repop?

doesn't sound very efficient to me

no way to split mobs either

wizards arent shit in groups without enchanters or bards

[sox7d]

As a wizard main, it's undeniably and unarguably wizards.

Quick math:

Most mana efficient spell - Sunstrike

1615 damage for 450 mana

That's 3.6 Damage per mana

Mana per tick at 60: 21

Mana per second = 21 / 6 = 3.5

3.5 * 3.6 = 12.6 sustained damage per second as a level 60 wizard

Even if you're pulling 1 mob a minute, the wizard is doing 756 damage total to that mob at a laughably slow pace. I.e. 11% of a KC Hand every minute. Not including resists.

The top druid nuke has a mana efficiency of 3.2 damage per mana... so on top of all their utility, they still do 90% nuke efficiency as the only thing wizards are "good" at.

The best mage nuke also has a 3.2 mana efficiency on top of their pet lmfao.

Honestly, you're probably better off with a level 35 paladin DPSing in a KC group than a 60 wizard if you're chain pulling.

All the "utility" of sTuNs, sNaRe, mAnA rEsErVOiR, sUcCoR and bUrNs DoWn FaSt does not make up for their comical shortcomings in the core functionality of a group.

Live a life of lonely struggle and then be thanked in the raid scene.

[BlackBellamy]

Voted Enchanter. Way to bring anxiety and increased workload for a casual xp group. I just want to chill man not worry about your pet all the time trying to kill you or the rest of the group.

[Gustoo]

^^ nice take

[Jimjam]

Voted Enchanter. Way to bring anxiety and increased workload for a casual xp group. I just want to chill man not worry about your pet all the time trying to kill you or the rest of the group.

See, I'm the opposite. I love the shenanigans of random chaos.

Like the wizard rooting a bunch of adds, trying to DPS with their rain, breaking half the roots, nuking himself up. It's hilarious.

[starkind]

Voted Enchanter. Way to bring anxiety and increased workload for a casual xp group. I just want to chill man not worry about your pet all the time trying to kill you or the rest of the group.

^^ nice take

absolutely lol

See, I'm the opposite. I love the shenanigans of random chaos.

Like the wizard rooting a bunch of adds, trying to DPS with their rain, breaking half the roots, nuking himself up. It's hilarious.

Grouping with you is sometimes very fun and sometimes very stresful :p

although that last pull was mine so idk

[cd288]

I'm always shocked to see Druids voted as one of the worst for group content. I'd argue they are one of the best for a small group and certainly no slouch for a full group. Snare, Heals, Harmony, and Damage Shield alone makes them pretty darn good. Maybe I've spent too much time in the pre 50 game, Druids are definitely better than Shamans cause they have snare and damage shield and same heals, slows maybe 50+ are invaluable in the group game, but pre 50 no chance.

With a Cleric/Tank in the group, classes I'd rather have a Druid before
Wizard
Rogue,
Another Tank,
Monk,
Shaman,
Another Cleric

With a Cleric/Tank in the group, classes I'd take over a Druid
Enchanter
Magician
Necromancer
Bard
Ranger

I mean I love playing a Druid but I wouldn't make this argument. SoW can only be cast outdoors and your snare ability isn't really that useful for stopping runners since basically any caster can just root the mob if you're worried about that. Shaman is way better than Druid because it can slow/haste and can regen mana very quickly with canni dancing. Druid skin spells are nice, but if you have a Cleric in the group then they aren't really needed. Damage shield can be helpful, but is really only a significant value add in a group with low DPS to minimize the amount of time the tank is getting hit, and in that case it's much better solved by adding another high DPS class like a monk or a Rogue (even if you have good DPS, a Monk/Rogue would still be better than taking the Druid).

Harmony is a great benefit, but negated by Rangers having it also (if a Ranger is your tank, since they can tank most content up until the higher levels) as well as Monk FD and other easy CC methods if you can't split the pull. It's just not enough of a benefit to make the Druid needed.

I'd basically only take Druid over Wizard, another tank, or another cleric.

[Toxigen]

Worst classes:

Wizard, Ranger, Mage, Druid (niche animal charming spots aside)

Best all-around 6 man group:

Cleric, Enchanter, Shaman, Warrior, Monk, Rogue

[cd288]

Worst classes:

Wizard, Ranger, Mage, Druid (niche animal charming spots aside)

Best all-around 6 man group:

Cleric, Enchanter, Shaman, Warrior, Monk, Rogue

mage? lol

great DPS in groups especially in the pre-Kunark era

[Twochain]

Grouping content only- and assuming we're not talking about twinked characters, poor first characters only.

wizard<ranger<warrior post classic (kunark and above)

Wizard<Warrior<Monk<Ranger< in classic

I almost put monk worst class. Monks in classic are pretty bad. Especially 1-30.

Ya'll picking druid are pretty crazy. Druid's damage shield alone probably outdps's every melee in classic from 1-40. Druids are also one of the most fun, if not THE most fun class to twink in velious. (My 58 druid has over 1k ac and like 3k hp) In fact in classic, i'm taking a druid in my group 1-30 probably before every other class other than pet classes.

[sox7d]

Grouping content only- and assuming we're not talking about twinked characters, poor first characters only.

wizard<ranger<warrior post classic (kunark and above)

Wizard<Warrior<Monk<Ranger< in classic

I almost put monk worst class. Monks in classic are pretty bad. Especially 1-30.

Ya'll picking druid are pretty crazy. Druid's damage shield alone probably outdps's every melee in classic from 1-40. Druids are also one of the most fun, if not THE most fun class to twink in velious. (My 58 druid has over 1k ac and like 3k hp) In fact in classic, i'm taking a druid in my group 1-30 probably before every other class other than pet classes.


ranger harmony pulling is insane in most zones. Most people sit on their ass for an hour trying to get into one of 4 MM spots when a ranger/dps/healer can split and take the yard with 3 people

[getsome]

Classes are irrelevant if you group with talented players.

[sox7d]

Classes are irrelevant if you group with talented players.

lets not get ahead of ourselves

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I believe this poll is too generic to be useful. All classes can contribute to normal groups well enough, and any group combination is stronger than a solo player. This is not taking into consideration player skill, or improper use of a class (such as a Rogue Tank).

Wizards are usually cited as poor grouping classes only because white damage is more efficient. Not all groups require high efficiency, and Wizards do get invited to groups. Wizards also have travel/evac spells, which is something to consider if you do not have a druid grouping with you.

I think this poll would be better if the idea was more focused, such as "what class combinations are strongest in a group?". A level 60 Shaman, Enchanter, Monk, Cleric combination is very strong across most content, and is stronger than a lot of other combinations. But that does not mean you are required to build this group composition to be successful in a lot of scenarios.

[starkind]

If I play wiz again I'd invest in clicky nukes and multi the velious robe or w/e.

Wizard, wizard, wizard, shm or druid, or clr, ench, bard is a rly sick grp too. I had this grp in actual classic era CT was really funny to watch mobs just vanish.

[Pyrocat]

Warriors are pretty terrible in groups, especially before they get decent dex and aggro weapons. Taunt is unreliable and only really works on blue cons. Paladins and SKs are group content kings for snap aggro/CC/pulling. I'd rather have a monk tank than a warrior, at least they can flop and mend and pull. Depending on the zone I'd even rather have a ranger or bard as a tank for their ability to snap aggro.

Granted, this is mostly from the perspective of an enchanter and a cleric. Warriors always break mez and it runs for the enchanter, whereas pallies/sks/rangers/bards can build up aggro first. Sometimes you get a good warrior and they'll taunt twice before breaking mez, but I'd rather just have a paladin flash of light and not worry.

Clerics have so much healing potential that it's only slightly more efficient to heal warrior tank than it is to heal pally/sk/ranger/bard/monk, and because of lack of snap aggro (and lack of ability to single pull), you usually waste a lot MORE mana healing the squishies/yourself.

tl;dr warriors suck until they get defensive, at which point they become game-breaking in the raid scene.

[cd288]

I believe this poll is too generic to be useful. All classes can contribute to normal groups well enough, and any group combination is stronger than a solo player. This is not taking into consideration player skill, or improper use of a class (such as a Rogue Tank).

Wizards are usually cited as poor grouping classes only because white damage is more efficient. Not all groups require high efficiency, and Wizards do get invited to groups. Wizards also have travel/evac spells, which is something to consider if you do not have a druid grouping with you.

I think this poll would be better if the idea was more focused, such as "what class combinations are strongest in a group?". A level 60 Shaman, Enchanter, Monk, Cleric combination is very strong across most content, and is stronger than a lot of other combinations. But that does not mean you are required to build this group composition to be successful in a lot of scenarios.

I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve needed to evac in a general group content setting (except maybe very close to max level type groups)

[Keebz]

I chose wizard, but an active wizard can still fill some crucial gaps in utility. With stun, root, and snare they can do a lot of work. Not to mention being able to just delete a caster mob from time to time.

[Keebz]

Just noticed ranger has a lot of votes, which is wild. Best snap aggro, reasonable DPS, track, harmony, root, snare... pretty amazing honestly.

Very low skill floor though, if you play the class like a rogue without backstab. Speaking of which, in classic rogues are pretty damn terrible. They offer very mediocre DPS and literally nothing else. At least warriors can tank.

[starkind]

I've only grouped with one bad ranger, that was on red. My cleric killed him with 1 nuke to save him his exp death.

He was an ultratwink and spent the rest of his life on red99 never living it down. Until he quit to go play on several garage boxes.

Otherwise. Ya. Most rangers are really skilled and dedicated.

[Gustoo]

I'm not going to vote I feel sorry for the wizard class.

[tadkins]

I'm not going to vote I feel sorry for the wizard class.

This thread is kinda depressing, yeah. I tried my best with a wizard, honestly.

Couldn't get into any groups, couldn't get into any guilds that would help me. All I ever wanted was to muster a strike force to go through KC for the concussion spell, never did manage it. I've basically relegated him to a DaP character now.

Playing a shaman now, and my sister rolled a SK with me. We're having a blast and the future is looking more bright. xD

[Danth]

Wizard gets it double bad. The typical prevailing conditions in a generic P1999 experience group already play against the wizard's strengths. Compounding the problem, over the years on P99 the wizard developed a reputation as the haven for lazy stoners who'd blow all their mana on a pull or two then afk for 10 min at a time. Motivated wizards can and do prove their worth, but its an uphill climb to be sure.

Danth

[tadkins]

I did my best to figure out how to be a "good wizard" and contribute as much as I could in a group.

-Bought a Solist's Icy Wand so I could continue to provide mana-less DPS
-Kept my Staff of Temp Flux at the ready to snap aggro adds so I could kite them when possible.
-Kept a stun and dispel memmed for areas with casters in it.
-Saved the "mana dump" for those tense fights when we really needed mobs to die.
-And of course, kept an evac ready.

Wasn't really sure what else I could do, but I never really got into groups to practice much anyhow. But yeah wizard just didn't work out for me in the end. Tried my best but no one wanted one.

[Gustoo]

Wizards are one of my favorite classes. The first time I played one I loved it but it was way late in my EQ career.

Here in the post-meta-meta world, I can see how people would be scums and not invite you to groups, but you provide some DPS, and crowd control, and of course evac capabilities.

So I dunno, I like them anyways.

In better p99 days I got offered a fully planar equiped ranger with epics for my level 54 wizard because the guy was in a fancy guild and didn't want to go through the trouble of leveling up a wizzie and at the time it was all about DPS for killing Trakanon when ivy hoops were first nerfed I believe.

But I didn't know what I'd do with such a ranger, fancy as he was so I didn't jump on the trade. I shoulda, but didn't

But yeah for a group they seem to be the clear loser in functionality + dps offerings.

[christmas_ham69]

necro for sure! what a bunch of crap!

[Solist]

One thing can be confirmed, most of you are terrible at this game and even on the optimum class comp will make for a worse group than one of almost any group comp by good players.

[guggle]

How long ya been on welfare solist?

[Jimjam]

Just noticed ranger has a lot of votes, which is wild. Best snap aggro, reasonable DPS, track, harmony, root, snare... pretty amazing honestly.

Very low skill floor though, if you play the class like a rogue without backstab. Speaking of which, in classic rogues are pretty damn terrible. They offer very mediocre DPS and literally nothing else. At least warriors can tank.

Rogues have pretty potentially sweet defensive skills - if they wear decent armour they can tank pretty well and backstab acts like a decent taunt should they lose aggro.

Typically though, rogues don't gear for defence and evade immediately after every backstab, so they don't tend to level up those defence skills. This makes them squishy as hell on the occasions where they do take hits.

I've seen plenty of rogues tank group content just fine. There are a couple of techniques to attempt backstab even when tanking, which is cool.

Speaking of evade - if you are a rogue, my warriors love it when you leave a little pause between backstab and evade - just enough time to attempt to taunt to piggyback off that bs aggro is very much appreciated.

I struggle to place group rogues bottom - they are decent enough dps, easy to play over long sessions (no burn out), can tank in a pinch (in theory), are super useful in 50+ groups for drag'n rez assistance, and a couple of 'key' zones pick lock is useful. They were much better before the sneak nerf though!

Despite my (and others) attempts at dispelling myths about wizards - and how they are excellent in AoE groups - I do have to admit that I find generally wizards are one of the worst classes for a group. Especially as most players don't even play them close to their (admittedly limited) full ability. Great class if you want to play with your friends, but have a young baby in the house. Dump mana, sit and chat, switch to afk often when baby wakes up from naps, needs feeding, nappy change, socialisation, etc. Socially they have a nice roll that lets you stay hooked on EQ :confused::rolleyes::eek::D:(:p.

[Keebz]

I struggle to place group rogues bottom - they are decent enough dps, easy to play over long sessions (no burn out), can tank in a pinch (in theory), are super useful in 50+ groups for drag'n rez assistance, and a couple of 'key' zones pick lock is useful. They were much better before the sneak nerf though!

For post-kunark, I totally agree. I was mainly talking about in classic era (pre-evade even), where they can't really do anything but auto-attack and their best weapon is 9/31 if they're a twink. As you say, theoretically they could tank or pull, but most rogues won't or simply aren't geared for it. There's also tricks like swapping in SBD to snare, but I don't think I've ever seen that in action in a pug. I suppose drag/rez can still be pretty useful depending on the camp.

[Danth]

I did my best to figure out how to be a "good wizard" and contribute as much as I could in a group.

-Bought a Solist's Icy Wand so I could continue to provide mana-less DPS
-Kept my Staff of Temp Flux at the ready to snap aggro adds so I could kite them when possible.
-Kept a stun and dispel memmed for areas with casters in it.
-Saved the "mana dump" for those tense fights when we really needed mobs to die.
-And of course, kept an evac ready.

Wasn't really sure what else I could do, but I never really got into groups to practice much anyhow. But yeah wizard just didn't work out for me in the end. Tried my best but no one wanted one.

The last sentence is the hard part--until folks get to know you, it's a tough life. I'll add a minor and a really important thing to your list above for the prospective grouping wizard:

--It's not just how much damage you do, but when you do it. If your group is snaring (and the wizard brings snare, so it ought to be), you want to blast stuff before it gets into flee mode. Blasting something from 50% to 20% is far more useful to that group than blasting an already-turned opponent who's no threat to anyone as it is. Conversely, if there's no snare (maybe you have something too magic resistant for snare to easily land), blasting the runners is a useful service, especially in that 20-14 percent range where they flee fastest. If you aren't snaring, blasting something from 24 (just before it would flee) to 8 per cent ensures even a runner won't get very far since stuff runs slower as its health drops.

--Here's the important one: Be friendly, be talkative, be active, most of all: Be memorable. You're on a class almost nobody wants and fewer cares about. If you manage to make a name for yourself as a cool guy who everyone likes, you'll get dramatically more group invites than you will if you sit in the back of your groups silently and unnoticed. This applies to all classes, but it's all the more critical on classes that aren't "pick them first" classes for pick-up groups. The cleric might hardly say a word and groups will still fall over themselves to invite him because he's a cleric. A wizard doesn't have that luxury.

Danth

[Jimjam]

^Great advice, just to add to it, as well as being fun, friendly and memorable it helps to have a name which is easy to remember.

[tadkins]

I appreciate the advice. Sadly I'm not charming, or funny, or memorable, and that's what I think made things tough when I tried to level a wizard. I did get to level 53 on him before I quit, without a single group. Even tried a number of guilds that weren't interested in helping me out. All I wanted were some friends so I didn't have to dread group content. It got tiring and boring and I had to make a choice whether I want to port people and quad wyverns my entire life, or try my hand with another class.

My wizard is in Dial a Port now, and I don't really intend to level him anymore. At least he can still serve a purpose making me some money. Which is good because shaman, my new class, is expensive as hell to play. xD

[Danth]

Which is good because shaman, my new class, is expensive as hell to play. xD

On the plus side, it doesn't have to be THAT expensive 'till 60 if you don't have the means, and even then you can live without Torpor for awhile if need be. Not like you aren't living without it already! In the long run, just about anything in Norrath outside raids becomes your own playground. I know it because it's the duo the wife and I have been using as our primary characters on P99-blue for going on a decade.

Danth

[tadkins]

On the plus side, it doesn't have to be THAT expensive 'till 60 if you don't have the means, and even then you can live without Torpor for awhile if need be. Not like you aren't living without it already! In the long run, just about anything in Norrath outside raids becomes your own playground. I know it because it's the duo the wife and I have been using as our primary characters on P99-blue for going on a decade.

Danth
Part of what got me interested in EQ again was that my sister wanted to level with me. She picked SK and we're now the best duo in the game. :)
(At least I think so, dunno if SK/shaman or monk/shaman is technically better).

I know how expensive it's going to be but I'm not too worried. This is going to be my main, all that good stuff will be achieved eventually. Torpor, fungi, JBB...it'll happen over time! And it's as you say, there's a lot of possibilites to look forward to as a high level shaman.

[Danth]

(At least I think so, dunno if SK/shaman or monk/shaman is technically better).

Monks like to toot their own horns, but in my experience both duos do all the same stuff if similarly geared...and I have a lot of experience. I've challenged similarly-equipped monks before to see if they could do anything /w a shaman the wife and I cannot, and since the sneak-pulling nerf, none has. Logically the monk-based duo should level faster, but their ultimate ceiling as duos for a given gear level seems about the same.

Danth

[tadkins]

Is yours and the wife's duo also an SK/shaman? Just wondering.

[Danth]

Yeah, as said, just like yours (except I play the SK and the wife plays the shaman). We've been on those characters a long time and done about everything they can be reasonably asked to do and perhaps a bit more. The monk would have a strong advantage if you wanted to join a high-end raid guild given the P99 raid community's disdain for hybrid types, but that was never an interest of ours.

[deadlycupcakez]

I genuinely don’t understand this poll- I’ve leveled a wizard to at least 51 on all p99 servers and every leveling journey I’ve grouped about 60% of the time pre-50. Without question I could nuke every mob at least once, and a wizard nuke on group content mobs after level 12 is doing 12-33% of mob hp depending on con. Once you hit efreeti/50+ Kunark/Kael stuff it changes (I’d argue still a high-value class for different reasons in places like Seb, HS, etc) but if we’re talking about group class for leveling (majority of which happens pre-50) I disagree strongly with this poll. If we are talking about farming fungi/ayllish it seems about right.

[Bardp1999]

id rather be in a shit group comp with active players than any optimal comp with most of the slugs that play on this dumpster.

[tadkins]

Yeah, as said, just like yours (except I play the SK and the wife plays the shaman). We've been on those characters a long time and done about everything they can be reasonably asked to do and perhaps a bit more. The monk would have a strong advantage if you wanted to join a high-end raid guild given the P99 raid community's disdain for hybrid types, but that was never an interest of ours.

Ah gotcha. I'm looking forward to what we can do together in that case, hehe.

SKs and shamans aren't bad for raiding though, right? It actually is a dream of mine to one day see some raid content and do battle with our lord Innoruuk.