Between wizard and mage.

[starkind]

So far its been easier to level wizards.

However mage can kill some cool things when they have room to kite and much nicer in grps.

I'm on this mage for the laung haul i think.

[Ooloo]

So wizards basically only suck because they run out of mana right?

What if they just had more mana?

[PatChapp]

So wizards basically only suck because they run out of mana right?

What if they just had more mana?

Big brain thinks

[starkind]

Wizard with clicky robes/nukes/wand can probably kill every mob that won't summon and is able to be rooted, snared, kited.

Problem is you need those clickies once a mob gets over 5khp. In order to have much success.

Quad kiting is the most efficient leveling next to bard kiting. It's better than charm because charm is a pain and requires a million APM. Even a liched necro has to work super hard and have a lot of mobs to keep up the exp/hr.

Even just nuking 1 mob they die fast enough even tho the wiz has lower dpm then dots and actual med times they still kill things faster. Because mobs don't require much kiting or root rotting or fear. Plus full exp.

Mages are like a close second here, but still need to outnuke their pets anyway or delete/reclaim pets and at the higher levels if your waiting for your pets to kill mobs... that's time. It's spacing out your kills per hour.

It's just ridiculous how fast a wizard can kill. With root and snare you can split a camp of 3-5 mobs by nuking and camping and easily keep each one down once they're spaced out spawn wise. Especially if you have a twinked mana pool. It is just crazy ez and you get full exp every time.

If you can buy a wizard +mana items and a soloists wand. I highly recommend u experience what it's like to blast like 5 mobs than afk 20 minutes.

[cd288]

If you’re solo killing a single mob wizard can’t even come close to mage. Quad kiting sure you will be more efficient but a mage can get through two to three mobs with a full bar of mana with ease and still get full exp

[Jibartik]

someone said that they should have gotten clarity instead of enchanters and I really think the entire wizard class would be different today if so

[guggle]

Being able to port is a huge bonus.

I have both. Wiz seems a bit more fun, but I don't do small groups often

[Jimjam]

The huge downtime between kites of a wizard gives you extra time to do some roleplay, so as well as being able to kill the greatest number of mobs in the shortest amount of time (best XP), they also have the best roleplay potential.

Obviously the best class for this mmorpg.

[Danth]

someone said that they should have gotten clarity instead of enchanters and I really think the entire wizard class would be different today if so

I don't think that fixes much. Instead it'd simply turn the wizard into another class that people grudgingly invite because it can cast a single spell every half an hour, without actually raising its single-target damage per minute enough to make people genuinely want it for that role in a typical group. I don't like that type of band-aid effort to improve class desirability. There's too much of that already in EQ. The wizard isn't hopeless as-is. It already solos perfectly well via quadding and its group utility is acceptable with stuns, snares, and evacs. All it really needs is some kind of sustainable single-target damage source so that it can actually keep up with the other damage-oriented classes instead of constantly lagging down near paladin-level. Maybe it needed wizard-only wands through the level spread that could cast spells similar to the VP/Velketor click robes, or simply a dramatic mana efficiency improvement on its single-target spells. Do something like that and it's fine.

Of course, that type of alternation--minor as it may be--falls outside P99's scope.

---------------------------------------------

Magicians suffer somewhat in a locked Velious era because they're using the same pets they had during Kunark but Velious enemies tend to hit harder and have more health. I'm not sure that they need "fixing" since they're still pretty desired for groups and raids, but they do seem to lose a little relative strength with each expansion from original--Kunark--Velious.

Danth

[starkind]

If you’re solo killing a single mob wizard can’t even come close to mage. Quad kiting sure you will be more efficient but a mage can get through two to three mobs with a full bar of mana with ease and still get full exp

eh sort of agree still have to wait for pet to kill ur mob some so... in the time it takes a mage to kill 3 mobs efficiently a wizard could have killed them already by about 3 minutes, and med times are actually quite fast once you are high lvl u can get mana back pretty quick... so its iffy

i mean i think there's some grey area room in the 30's for were a mage can like med while pet kills things and u do 1 dmg with a nuke or just help pet survive a little bit.

I don't think that fixes much. Instead it'd simply turn the wizard into another class that people grudgingly invite because it can cast a single spell every half an hour, without actually raising its single-target damage per minute enough to make people genuinely want it for that role in a typical group. I don't like that type of band-aid effort to improve class desirability. There's too much of that already in EQ. The wizard isn't hopeless as-is. It already solos perfectly well via quadding and its group utility is acceptable with stuns, snares, and evacs. All it really needs is some kind of sustainable single-target damage source so that it can actually keep up with the other damage-oriented classes instead of constantly lagging down near paladin-level. Maybe it needed wizard-only wands through the level spread that could cast spells similar to the VP/Velketor click robes, or simply a dramatic mana efficiency improvement on its single-target spells. Do something like that and it's fine.

Of course, that type of alternation--minor as it may be--falls outside P99's scope.

---------------------------------------------

Magicians suffer somewhat in a locked Velious era because they're using the same pets they had during Kunark but Velious enemies tend to hit harder and have more health. I'm not sure that they need "fixing" since they're still pretty desired for groups and raids, but they do seem to lose a little relative strength with each expansion from original--Kunark--Velious.

Danth



pre-velious and pre-kunark especially

wizards are pretty leet for their ability to root and their dpm isnt that bad compared to mid lvl weapons like pgt/dark reaver etc i think they are just undertuned because they can kill a mob fast and delete anything under lvl 40

plus a plethora of instant clickies and that wand in early kunark is super leet too

[Ooloo]

Hmmm... kinda wanna make a wizard now. Wiz and bard are still the only two classes I've never played, and I hate bards from all the experiences of them swarm kiting near me, so I refuse to play that class out of spite.

[Ravager]

Mages are tethered to merchants selling reagents. I never played a mage, but that seems like it'd be a pain in the butt for a non-porting class.

[sajbert]

Wizard is a comfort raiding class and with Velious you may want to have a Rogue for raiding anyway. A rogue will also get you into end-game dungeon groups and you get your epic with ease, unlike with the Wiz epic which is pretty difficult to score. Since the class isn't popular you'd think it wouldn't be that hard but nah, the top guilds are full of wiz alts.

The early levels are atrocious but can be made easier with the soloist's wand. Leveling overall is slow and generally revolves around 6 minute camps. Quadding now is better available even if they nerfed some spots. There's less competition for locations and you have all the spells you need, you will need jbots though. Quadding gets boring but it's fun doing it a few levels. Both 6min camps and quadding makes the wiz an excellent afk-leveler.

I wouldn't recommend Wizard since a Druid can do everything a Wizard can except exel at raid target burst. When the option is Mage though, eh, I find mages to be possibly even more dull and that's another class which goes nowhere once you hit 60.

[Balimon]

Mages are tethered to merchants selling reagents. I never played a mage, but that seems like it'd be a pain in the butt for a non-porting class.

It's not a big deal at all, you have to sell sometimes right? Well just sell where you can buy malachite, and if not, bring 1-2 bags worth with you before you go. The biggest limiting factor on mage is finding camps that have enough single pulls to get your maximum exp per hour, definitely not reagants!

[PatChapp]

It's not a big deal at all, you have to sell sometimes right? Well just sell where you can buy malachite, and if not, bring 1-2 bags worth with you before you go. The biggest limiting factor on mage is finding camps that have enough single pulls to get your maximum exp per hour, definitely not reagants!
Yeah I think I ran out of malachite one time. Just not an issue if you plan ahead at all, 2 x10 slot bags last a good while

[Jimjam]

It's not a big deal at all, you have to sell sometimes right? Well just sell where you can buy malachite, and if not, bring 1-2 bags worth with you before you go. The biggest limiting factor on mage is finding camps that have enough single pulls to get your maximum exp per hour, definitely not reagants!

just have a druid parked in the same area. Log to the druid to harmony the camp, snare park some away from eachother - whatever needs doing then switch back to mage, summon and destroy the now broken camp.

[ReoDobbs]

If you’re solo killing a single mob wizard can’t even come close to mage. Quad kiting sure you will be more efficient but a mage can get through two to three mobs with a full bar of mana with ease and still get full exp

Sure, now you only have to find that single solo spawn that doesn't aggro others every level range and you're all set!

[ReoDobbs]

just have a druid parked in the same area. Log to the druid to harmony the camp, snare park some away from eachother - whatever needs doing then switch back to mage, summon and destroy the now broken camp.

And you think managing this would somehow be quicker than leveling with a wizard? You're now leveling two different characters, even if you can somehow rationalize that this is faster

[Jimjam]

Isn't harmony like level 5 or 15 ? don't need to level it far. Just a handy tip, especially if you already got a ranger or druid.

[tadkins]

Wizard is a fun class, and the highest leveled one I managed to get on this server thus far (53). It's simple, fun, and effective in many ways. Love being able to delete mobs in seconds, and then go back to alt-tabbing to YT videos and such while I med.

The issue is that I really wanted to explore dungeons and join groups, and wizard just isn't going to let me do that. I was entirely solo from 1-53, only making a party when someone wanted a port. I wondered how I was going to be able to get my Concussion spell as no one in my last guild really wanted to help me. When I expressed a desire to do some dungeon content they just shrugged me off. I heard Wizards become infinitely more fun when they get their various class clickies, but if I could never get a Highkeep group back in the day, what hope was there of ever getting into a Kael one?

Essentially I wanted to do more with my wizard than quad kite and port people, and it wasn't looking good on that front, so I've been rerolling ever since trying to find that one class I could identify with. Maybe I will pick him up again one day as I did enjoy the class, and he's in DaP now making money for my reroll projects. I just don't want to be forever that guy who still gets lost in SolB, you know?

Mage was also a pretty fun class, got that one to level 45. My concerns there were the extreme difficulty of their epic, their ability to solo at higher levels, and their raid viability. I heard mages only get brought to raids to summon mod rods, and how many mod rod vendors do you need in a raid? I heard they weren't even allowed to summon pets in them.

[starkind]

Wizards can pull pretty well with self rune, root, snare, stun. That 1.5 second root.

We wizards really need to make a real Wizarding guild and help eachother out. There's nothing 6 wizards can't do outside of raids. And wizards duo well with every class who could use a little help pulling or a little extra med time. Even necros. They counter balance other classes weak points. A wizard/ench duo is good. Just not "good enough" for thirsty poopsockers working on their 6th epic dkp tracker.

So. If I was 55 on green or blue I'd drag people to thurg and kael and get you your clickies.

It's not the class. It's the sad state of shambles most people are in. Soullessly grinding batphones for the few pixel kingpins everyone lets run the two competing guilds on each server.

Your only other option is to ding 60 and join them grinding dkp. Or just find other things to do in game.

No one seems to poopsock together anymore.

I remember when the efreeti in solb and giants where real group affairs. Red kinda is that way sometimes. Just with the same 12 people endlessly.

I would say if serious about wizard. Just be more patient and also more demanding. Sit on top of groups farming kael giants. Find ways to contribute and guilt and shame these nerds into showering you in your clickies.

You can pull and assist 30s, 40s groups also. Help them gather members. Bring them to Dalnir to explore. That will make friends too.

[Jibartik]

The problem with wizards is this game is just not designed to be played as a long range DPS, there's no other class that does that.

They def should have had like PBAOE stuns and more efficient shadowstep lines designed for being mobile IMO

Wow turned them into everquest druids that use cold instead of snare. Not optimal Arcane design IMO!

[starkind]

The problem with wizards is this game is just not designed to be played as a long range DPS, there's no other class that does that.

They def should have had like PBAOE stuns and more efficient shadowstep lines designed for being mobile IMO

Wow turned them into everquest druids that use cold instead of snare. Not optimal Arcane design IMO!

Legion through bfa and SL frost mages r quite fun and definitely way cooler than druids. Arcane has been a leet spec late bfa-shadowlands. I can't speak for classic. If you think frost is an ice druid. I say get gud.

I did the sickest shit as a crapily geared frost killing shit in packs I wasn't supposed to be able to. Before I was supposed to be able. Like 100 ilvls too early. It wasn't until I switched back to priest did I realize how good I was with frost. Dying horribly to the same shit even after bumping up my ilvl and grinding those stupid shards and shit.

Same thing with pulling dps in mythics. Just laughably ez as frost even on ST I would either top the chart cuz everyone sucked or come in a solid 3rd place just barely behind ST strong specs. Multi was just no contest.

Naw. Druids... no where near as OP.

[ReoDobbs]

Isn't harmony like level 5 or 15 ? don't need to level it far. Just a handy tip, especially if you already got a ranger or druid.

Do you think your level 5 druid is going to be able to get close enough to harmony. Also I see how you conveniently moved away from snaring with him.

I'm just pointing out your answer for why the mage could do it better is to basically "dollar store dual box a druid with him"

[PatChapp]

Do you think your level 5 druid is going to be able to get close enough to harmony. Also I see how you conveniently moved away from snaring with him.

I'm just pointing out your answer for why the mage could do it better is to basically "dollar store dual box a druid with him"

Not only that,lvl 5 druid harmony lasts under 30 seconds. I also play a mage, the idea of doing this is absurd,we just use root nets to split.
Or just use a mages secret weopon,gate.

[starkind]

Or duo with a healer. Just like an enchanter does.

[Ravager]

Also, Wizard can do some silly things with relatively easy to get gear. That flux staff can pl and make duoing easy.

[tadkins]

I would say if serious about wizard. Just be more patient and also more demanding. Sit on top of groups farming kael giants. Find ways to contribute and guilt and shame these nerds into showering you in your clickies.

You can pull and assist 30s, 40s groups also. Help them gather members. Bring them to Dalnir to explore. That will make friends too.

I dunno, I'm just not super confident in my social skills. How do I strongarm a necromancer or enchanter into helping me explore KC for the first time (I legitimately don't know the zone beyond the entrance) to find the dude I need charmed for the Concussion spell for instance?

Just had a few bad experiences with my last guild trying to learn the game that kind of turned me off from the class. But it's a 53 wizard I spent time into leveling, so I figured I'd make use of that by making him a DaP regular.

[tadkins]

Also, Wizard can do some silly things with relatively easy to get gear. That flux staff can pl and make duoing easy.

Hell yeah, love that thing.

[starkind]

I dunno, I'm just not super confident in my social skills. How do I strongarm a necromancer or enchanter into helping me explore KC for the first time (I legitimately don't know the zone beyond the entrance) to find the dude I need charmed for the Concussion spell for instance?

Just had a few bad experiences with my last guild trying to learn the game that kind of turned me off from the class. But it's a 53 wizard I spent time into leveling, so I figured I'd make use of that by making him a DaP regular.
If I get high enough to do Kaesora ever again I would love to duo or group there one day. So. There's one person that wants to :)

[tadkins]

If I get high enough to do Kaesora ever again I would love to duo or group there one day. So. There's one person that wants to :)

That's cool. :)

I'm sitting here debating what I want to play. Got a 16 enchanter I'm tempted to dust off, and I've spent the last couple of days farming bard gear to try that class out. Tons of options, all of them kind making me hesitate, lol.

[cd288]

Sure, now you only have to find that single solo spawn that doesn't aggro others every level range and you're all set!

You clearly have never leveled a mage. With earth pet you can easily split two mobs and will have the mana to kill both of them quickly with the help of your pet. Now the camp is split. There are plenty of other ways to split camps as well if it’s more than two mobs.

Sure, you’re not doing many of the super valuable dungeon camps, but for general XPing it’s really not hard to split

[starkind]

you can keep backing pet up and if you have the space reliabley keep three mobs rooted while ur pet regens hp and is like a mobile root spell as a mage while u burn down one and then u can log and resummon

[cd288]

Yeah pre-39 the pet regen can be a little slow compared to the content you're doing (like in the 30s) so it's tougher, but from 39 on pets regen crazy fast so it's even easier to keep multiple mobs rooted.

And once you get vocarate earth that thing casts a root immediately so you know you're guaranteed an instant root right off the bat.

[unsunghero]

That's cool. :)

I'm sitting here debating what I want to play. Got a 16 enchanter I'm tempted to dust off, and I've spent the last couple of days farming bard gear to try that class out. Tons of options, all of them kind making me hesitate, lol.

This thread makes me want to try a wiz, but like starkind said, only with clickies and twinked gear

I’ve committed pretty hard to enchanter at this point, lev 52 atm with even the level 58 spell Bedlam banked waiting (that one ran me 15k), and jboots (5k)

But there’s some parts of chanter that are boring:

1. Charm soloing where you only have 2 mobs to work with that are close or equal in level start to take a LOOONNG time to kill each other. It’s still somewhat time effective because you get 2 mobs for the price of 1, but it is a long time of sitting there watching MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS “come on just hit each other!” MISS MISS MISS. I swear I’ve watched my slow drop off an enemy mob before my charmed pet could kill it, that’s how long it takes sometimes in the 50’s. The only really time effective way to charm solo is send one into a pack and root all of them, but can’t always set that situation up

2. Animation pet? Super boring. Can’t nuke, can’t dot, waste of mana. Can only slow and stun and sit on your butt and watch, can’t even control it. Most boring playstyle in the game IMO

3. Raiding - I’ve done it now and it’s hella boring on a chanter unless you are close to level 60. Everything is too high level to stick spells to, and for some reason tash has like super aggro. I’ve tried trashing a mob that a tank had been swinging at for a full minute and STILL yanked aggro with it. So you have to wait a long time to try tash, and even with that, your slow is probably not going to land. And you can forget about dots and nukes. Charming is too dangerous when your raid is pulling level 58-60 mobs and I’m level 51, so what is my role? Hasting melees. That’s it. Just haste melees all night. And only certain melees, the tanks want vision of grandeur level 60 haste and will get pissed if u put your weaker haste on them. Fun fun. Raiding looks really fun for melee dps and caster dps classes, and tanks. Looks boring as shit for enchanters and healers, at least lower level chanters that can’t charm yet

[cd288]

Wiz is doable without clickies or twink gear. You'll need a bit of INT gear to be able to quad, but nothing crazy.

Staff of Temperate Flux makes quadding a bit simpler, but it's not that big of a deal since you can just use a really low level nuke to trigger aggro without using up mana.

[Danth]

I’ve tried trashing a mob that a tank had been swinging at for a full minute and STILL yanked aggro with it.

If this is the same tank who complains about his haste spell, complain about getting hit. Not too egregiously--just enough for him to notice. If it's a warrior, add in how that doesn't happen when you have a paladin or shadow knight. He might not say anything but it'll gnaw at his ego.

[starkind]

It's fair to toss out a root before u tash/slow with a war there.