Police caught lying about DNA

[Gravydoo II]

They will submit fake documents during interrogations saying we have your DNA at the crime scene, here is the paper work. They even submit one in court as evidence. Virginia police are corrupt. After they get caught doing it, they said its completely legal to convict someone on a confession from false documents. Going to trail will just get you more time. You think a jury is going to believe you or the documents police submitted?

A lawyer found out when he asked the Virginia Dept of Forensic science for a copy of the DNA test. They had fake employee names, etc. A seal and letterhead from the dept. makes the shit look legit. It was a "strategy" the police used to coerce confessions according to the AG.

They "requested" the police stop doing it... for two years.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-used-fake-dna-reports-interrogations-virginia-attorney-general-rcna12053

Hey like you said, if you dont have anything to hide, there is nothing to fear. If you havent done anything wrong... Its not like police would frame someone to juke their numbers.

[Jibartik]

But politicians can be trusted.

[Gravydoo II]

None of them can be trusted. They are all insider trading fucks. There needs to be 10x more oversight of politicians. Lying to your constituents should be perjury.

Moving on. Stop trying to derail my shit, ho.

[starkind]

https://i.imgur.com/EKj8HA1.png

[Elizondo]

Perfectly legal

it's an interrogation. Not evidence being submitted in court.

[Jibartik]

I’m loving all this stuff we’ve done to update the police since the democrats got in office after 100 days of terrorism.

OP is a cop loving democrat.

[unsunghero]

They will submit fake documents during interrogations saying we have your DNA at the crime scene, here is the paper work. They even submit one in court as evidence. Virginia police are corrupt. After they get caught doing it, they said its completely legal to convict someone on a confession from false documents. Going to trail will just get you more time. You think a jury is going to believe you or the documents police submitted?

A lawyer found out when he asked the Virginia Dept of Forensic science for a copy of the DNA test. They had fake employee names, etc. A seal and letterhead from the dept. makes the shit look legit. It was a "strategy" the police used to coerce confessions according to the AG.

They "requested" the police stop doing it... for two years.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-used-fake-dna-reports-interrogations-virginia-attorney-general-rcna12053

Hey like you said, if you dont have anything to hide, there is nothing to fear. If you havent done anything wrong... Its not like police would frame someone to juke their numbers.

Yes it is not illegal in the United States for police to lie to you during an interrogation, while it is illegal in countries in Europe (I forget which)

This is why you shouldn’t talk to police during an interrogation without legal council. But you have to request it. It’s offered but not automatically given

[unsunghero]

If I remember right this guy (serial rapist, murderer? If I recall) was caught due to a lie about having a footprint on the crime scene that matched his, which wasn’t true. When he heard it, he spilled everything. My memory is hazy though, might have been a different guy

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NSkoGTrYiG0

[Gravydoo II]

Perfectly legal

it's an interrogation. Not evidence being submitted in court.

It was submitted as evidence in court, the fake documents.

[unsunghero]

Correction: in the clip I posted the interrogation took place in Canada, not sure what their laws about truthfulness during interrogations

It wasn’t a lie about the boot print being a match, another video did a deep dive into this interrogation and revealed that the lie was that the detective’s police department had a “world renowned” foot print analyzer. The person he was referring to was just an entry level cop who makes copies of the boot print

The detective’s damning emphasis placed on the matching tire prints and boot prints was also exaggerated, the other deep dive revealed. Had the colonel consulted with a lawyer, the lawyer would have coached him to take the defense that those were both popular tire and boot styles. You have to prove guilt, not innocence, beyond a reasonable doubt, so if another person could have those same tires and boots, then you would really need the DNA component to lean on

I’m assuming they had it, but it was definitely still a deceptive interrogation. Interestingly enough, the guy is considered one of the best interrogators who ever did it, and the interrogation is lauded as an example of how to do an effective one

[unsunghero]

It was submitted as evidence in court, the fake documents.

Yes interrogations are evidence used in court. That’s why they have to tell you this ahead of time (all countries) and offer you a lawyer if you don’t have or cannot afford one

[unsunghero]

I’ve learned a lot about police stops as well. Police are allowed to stop you and ask you questions at any time, regardless of whether you are appearing to be breaking any laws or not. They can, for example, ask you if you were a witness to a crime they are investigating that has nothing to do with you

While they are allowed to ask you, you are NOT under any legal obligation to answer, and your refusal to answer cannot be legally proven as “obstructing”. The only circumstance where you are legally required to provide an answer or otherwise be considered as obstructing, is if the cop says to YOU in a clear manner, that they have evidence or suspicion that you have committed or are committing a crime

So an example, a cop can ask you if you happened to see a mugging that took place 2 houses down from you yesterday. You can respond “I don’t need to answer you pigs”. Your insult is legally protected speech, you can also not be charged (legally and fairly although it could still happen lol) with disorderly conduct for that. Normally disorderly conduct is words or behaviors which pose a disruption or danger to the public, something like that

There is a certain degree of insulting communication which crosses into “fighting words”, which is an actual legal term (bet you didn’t know that). If the insulting communication seems to be with the intent to provoke a physical confrontation with the cop, or an extreme threat to the cop, then that is no longer first amendment protected speech. So for example, you couldn’t say something like “fight me you fucking coward ass pig”. Or something like “I’m going to kill your children”. But you don’t have to answer, and yes you are legally allowed to be rude to and to insult the cop (not recommended though)

But back to the other scenario. Let’s say the cop says “we had a home broken into near yours yesterday, and your truck matches the description witnesses gave of the one leaving, I have some questions for you”. The cop had communicated suspicion that you have committed a crime, now you ARE legally required to answer his questions, or else you are legally obstructing an investigation and could be charged. I do not think that requesting your or any lawyer before answering is considered obstruction, but I believe they can detain you at that point until a lawyer is provided. I’d have to look into that

One thing you can check is by asking if you are being detained or if you are free to leave. A cop is not allowed to detain you unless under that circumstance I detailed above. And they also are not legally allowed to detain you longer than seems reasonably necessary for the investigation. So if you piss the cop off and he makes you stand at street corner not answering questions but not allowed to leave just generally wasting your time, he could get in trouble for that

Anyway, that’s it off the top of my head

[Elizondo]

It was submitted as evidence in court, the fake documents.

They submitted them as actual dna evidence?

Quote in your article where it says that. Everything in your own link indicates it was an interrogation strategy to get a confession dude. You should re title this thread to "police lie to get confessions during interrogations' which should surprise nobody

[Gravydoo II]

Read it yourself, retard. I'm not your fucking book keeper.

It was used in court to convict someone. This is just what we know about.

need your mommy to cut the outside off the bread too??

[unsunghero]

If anyone wants to see an officer get taken to school, here’s an example

There are people who know everything there is to know about local law, and as a hobby they deliberately create and film confrontations with cops, hoping the cop will fuck up

This is an example of a frustrated cop in over his head with someone who knows more than him. Gravy would probably get a kick out of this. I think the kid is a dick, but he completely gets the upper hand on the cop and takes him to school

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p-JHn8n3FdY

[Patriam1066]

Perfectly legal

it's an interrogation. Not evidence being submitted in court.

Yes, and it’s perfectly legal to give poor people under qualified public defenders. And yet it isn’t right and undermines the reasons we participate in a democracy instead of other forms of government

[Elizondo]

Read it yourself, retard. I'm not your fucking book keeper.

It was used in court to convict someone. This is just what we know about.

need your mommy to cut the outside off the bread too??

Who was convicted by this department using some fake dna evidence?

name?

Yes, and it’s perfectly legal to give poor people under qualified public defenders. And yet it isn’t right and undermines the reasons we participate in a democracy instead of other forms of government

You have the right to remain silent

[unsunghero]

Well, to a point you have the right to remain silent. If you are being interrogated, that means there is already suspicion of you committing a crime. While you can’t be forced to talk (how can anyone force someone to talk, other than maybe actual torture), I think using the coaching of a lawyer to provide explanations and a defense is going to be generally more helpful than staying silent forever. What you say can be used against you, but it can also be used to help you via a judge or jury, especially if you are innocent

But I also don’t see how fake DNA or some other fake evidence could be used to convict someone. Fake evidence can only legally be used to get a confession (in the USA) as far as I know. So if it happened, it doesn’t seem legal or ethical to me

In regards to under qualified public defenders, they still have to pass the bar exam. I’m sure there’s some sort of continual certification requirements. I dunno for lawyers, but as a doctor you can’t just get your MD and sit on your ass not learning anything new for the rest of your career. If you don’t keep up with something like “continuing credits” (I forget the term, basically keeping up with the latest information in medicine as like mini-college courses), then you lose your license to practice. I’m sure law is similar, but could be wrong. So someone shouldn’t be able to stay under qualified forever. But again, not an expert in knowing law

[Elizondo]

If anyone wants to see an officer get taken to school, here’s an example

There are people who know everything there is to know about local law, and as a hobby they deliberately create and film confrontations with cops, hoping the cop will fuck up

This is an example of a frustrated cop in over his head with someone who knows more than him. Gravy would probably get a kick out of this. I think the kid is a dick, but he completely gets the upper hand on the cop and takes him to school

That's my point. Folks need to understand their rights. Even during an interrogation you can get up and leave at any time unless you are being formally detained. If a cop questions you, ask them straight up if you are being detained. If they say no, walk away. You don't have to answer their questions. Not even in an interrogation room after being arrested. Remain silent. It's one of the most powerful rights you have.

Cops can lie their asses off. It's perfectly legal. They want to build up a smoke screen and apply pressure to coerce you into giving them evidence such as a confession. if they actually tried to submit some bogus dna report to a court of law with obvious photoshopped stamps on them to get a conviction, even a court appointed attorney is competent enough to expose that. At some point in the appeals process if it actually led to a conviction it would be exposed.

Well, to a point you have the right to remain silent. If you are being interrogated, that means there is already suspicion of you committing a crime. While you can’t be forced to talk (how can anyone force someone to talk, other than maybe actual torture), I think using the coaching of a lawyer to provide explanations and a defense is going to be generally more helpful than staying silent forever.

No man

you never say a word. period. That's the lawyers job.

[Homesteaded]

Yes, and it’s perfectly legal to give poor people under qualified public defenders. And yet it isn’t right and undermines the reasons we participate in a democracy instead of other forms of government

What's the alternative? No lawyers? One lawyer per citizen? You're doing a great disservice to the public attorneys. Typical from you, out of touch with reality.

[unsunghero]

No man

you never say a word. period. That's the lawyers job.

Oh k. I was implying the same thing as going through an attorney is better than never seeking an attorney or saying anything, just being mute for entire trial as your own defense. But I guess literally only having the attorney speak is ideal yea

[Elizondo]

What's the alternative? No lawyers? One lawyer per citizen? You're doing a great disservice to the public attorneys. Typical from you, out of touch with reality.

J3bRtaKwaW8

[Patriam1066]

What's the alternative? No lawyers? One lawyer per citizen? You're doing a great disservice to the public attorneys. Typical from you, out of touch with reality.

A rich person is more likely to get away with something as compared to a poor person

You’re doing a great disservice to democracy for ignoring that injustice.

[Homesteaded]

Again, what is your solution?

[starkind]

Say nuffin. Ever.

[Swish]

Murica vs the law is great entertainment.

[Gravydoo II]

The american legal system sucks. They should have lawyers take 10 cases a year or something for state rate defending normal people. Even those huge practices that rake in millions of dollars, them too. Wouldnt be the end of the world.

New attorneys do need practice though. Unfortunately, you might be their practice round. I might be one day lol who knows. Either way, I dont want cops coming in there saying "we have your evidence at the crime scene and here is the paper work to prove it. If you go to trial, you're looking at 20 years. If you take the plea, you might get ten." and whos gonna believe you? The jury is going to believe the fake DNA test if you take it to trial. "Come on, we'll take it easy on you if you confess..". You're not an oppressed minority. You dont know what you'd do.

You think that has never happened? The cops would NEVER lie though. They would never do something like this. How many people you think confessed that didnt do it instead of facing a trial? How would they know the evidence is fake..? You dont know until you're put in that situation. You're the same people who say you'd be the good guy with a gun to stop the mass shooters lol.. You're all so brave here but you've never faced 20 years with a cop saying "we have your dna at the scene.. if you confess, you wont get as much time.. we'll look out for you!" etc..

[Homesteaded]

If you operate trying to eliminate all wrong and creating a perfect society, you're going to have a bad time and run into many walls.

There is already a shortage of lawyers, you want to now limit them to 10 cases a year. Good luck with that. You're giving way too much credit to people who are in the legal system. You act as if a majority are there through dumb luck and corruption. Overwhelmingly if you are in the court system and requiring a public attorney you have lived a life of compounding mistakes. Sorry but that's the game, don't be a lazy slob who breaks the law. Get good.

[Reiwa]

Well, to a point you have the right to remain silent. If you are being interrogated, that means there is already suspicion of you committing a crime. While you can’t be forced to talk (how can anyone force someone to talk, other than maybe actual torture), I think using the coaching of a lawyer to provide explanations and a defense is going to be generally more helpful than staying silent forever. What you say can be used against you, but it can also be used to help you via a judge or jury, especially if you are innocent



I read somewhere that answering any question nulls da Fif and you can't use it anymore.

[unsunghero]

You think that has never happened? The cops would NEVER lie though. They would never do something like this. How many people you think confessed that didnt do it instead of facing a trial? How would they know the evidence is fake..?

They wouldn’t know it’s fake, but if you watch those deep dive vids of interrogations, there are certain behaviors that innocent people naturally take that are very hard for a guilty person to fake. Believe it or not cops are looking for those as well. They want a confession yes, but if they spot innocent behaviors, a good interrogator isn’t going to completely ignore them. Also, think about yourself, would you confess to something you didn’t do because a cop said he had a video of you doing it? I wouldn’t. I would say fine, show me that fucking video

Also, think about the flip side, how many sick fucks, murderers, serial killers, rapists, also only got caught because an interrogator lied about having evidence on them

As I mentioned before, the way an innocent person protects themself is to go through a lawyer, and never answer questions without one. I heard this said to me in my early 20’s probably dozens of times. It’s on you, if you choose to ignore the advice and answer questions on your own. This is the age of information, easy access to information, you should know that the best play is to go through a lawyer. If you choose to ignore that, the result is on you

[unsunghero]

But an argument can always be make it illegal because it is illegal in some other places, for example it is illegal in Britain to lie during interrogations

“The law does not allow lying to suspects, under any circumstances”
https://innocenceproject.org/how-the-uk-police-interview-suspects/

[Gravydoo II]

Why would they even need to lie if they had the goods?? Why lie at all?? Because they dont have any evidence.

To say there are no people who are in prison or jail who were falsely convicted is just stupid and wrong. Once you confess, its too late.

If you were lying to the police who were already lying to you to get out of that situation, they will take your lie and submit it as the truth. People lie in confessions all the time. "We already know you did it. You're only making it worse by not confessing." blah blah blah. Then, the guy breaks, lies, confesses to the whole thing to make the abuse and stress stop.

You dont know how you'd react. You say you'd stand strong but you dont know that. You ever faced 20 or 40 years?? You ever faced 5 years?? If someone is saying "We got all we need to convict you, put you away for 5 years.. or if you confess, you got probation..." and you're a poor person. You're gonna take the gamble? You're gonna go to trail with a public defender that doesnt give a shit about you or your life? LOL

Cause we KNOW they are not doing this to rich people.

[Gravydoo II]

And dont tell me they dont abuse people for confessions, false or not. The local police broke my co-workers SPINE in an interrogation. Turns out, he wasnt even the right guy they were looking for. They thought he was someone else. So they broke his back, thinking he was some bad guy. He was totally innocent.

[Homesteaded]

And dont tell me they dont abuse people for confessions, false or not. The local police broke my co-workers SPINE in an interrogation. Turns out, he wasnt even the right guy they were looking for. They thought he was someone else. So they broke his back, thinking he was some bad guy. He was totally innocent.

Yeah okay bud. No one believes your bullshit. Grow up.

[robayon]

Yeah okay bud. No one believes your bullshit. Grow up.You've lived a soft, comfortable life and it SHOWS

[F0rmsh1fter]

And dont tell me they dont abuse people for confessions, false or not. The local police broke my co-workers SPINE in an interrogation. Turns out, he wasnt even the right guy they were looking for. They thought he was someone else. So they broke his back, thinking he was some bad guy. He was totally innocent.

Fuck the police, but I don’t believe this for a second. Stop trying to be like your idols, making shit up to be outraged by

[unsunghero]

In terms of abuse, having watched many deep dives into interrogation tactics, yes there is a strategy than can involve a bit of what some might say is mental abuse

For example, if a person begins to say something like “I wasn’t in that place on that night!”. especially if they already stated that, a good interrogator will not let them finish. Because when we re-state something it increases our own convictions on that claim, even if it was a lie. It essentially makes it easier to say the same lie again with conviction the more we say it

So the interrogator will sometimes cut them off “yes you were!” Or something like that. At a certain time and with a certain purpose, they will fire off rapid questions or statements, they won’t let you rest in silence, and they won’t let you continue to re-state something you’ve already said. The goal is to wear you out mentally. They are also allowed to do this for hours if they want, although I’ve seen cases where the interrogator was sued for what was argued as beyond necessary mental abuse, and the interrogator lost the suit. So there are limits to it

[Gravydoo II]

You believe that vaccines are from the devil and contain nano-machines to steal your guns. You're both retards lol. You believe that jewish people control the world, crazy things, retarded things. I dont care if you believe me or not.

The guy must have broken his own spine after they kidnapped him. Cops never ever "tune up" people, ever. Its never happened in history and all the court cases of police brutality, they were all lying. I guess the settlement he got was fake, too. Must have been from soros.

Dude, you got boot polish all over your tongue and teeth.

[Homesteaded]

You've lived a soft, comfortable life and it SHOWS

In some ways I did. In some ways I didn’t, like most people.

Spin again dipshit.

[robayon]

In some ways I did. In some ways I didn’t, like most people.

Spin again dipshit.Get mad as hell if it helps you get through it, emotionally mature guy who totally doesn't care about stuff

[Jibartik]

You believe that vaccines are from the devil and contain nano-machines to steal your guns.

Nobody here believes that, literally not even our most extreme conspiracy theorists believe any of that lmao this has to be your father you're talking about.

[Trexller]

DD-214

[Gravydoo II]

Mexicans never get mistreated by police, ever. Its impossible to kick someone in the back while they were sitting down on the ground with a boot and break a vertebrae, simply not possible. Humans cant break other humans bones, its against the rules and impossible, right?

Nobody has ever seen a cop kick a guy, either. That means all those videos of police kicking the shit out of people are all fakes. The injuries are make up, its all crisis actors. So he must have kicked himself in the back with the toe of his own boot, while sitting on his ass in the dirt.

The right hates the police but they will get on their knees in a second to defend them when it comes to beating up mexicans.

[Jibartik]

The left hates the police but they will get on their knees in a second to defend them when it comes to beating up trump supporters.

[unsunghero]

The right hates the police

I don’t think the right hates the police

But here’s an example of what u speak. Cop did get fired + arrested

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yOegqWf4pM4

[Jibartik]

He thinks the right hates cops, because anyone with a brain excommunicated from the libtard left and now you have a more diverse open minded freedom first conservative right whom are growing to be more anti cop the more libs leave that sinking ship bidenratpelosi ship their on.

[F0rmsh1fter]

DD-214

[unsunghero]

He thinks the right hates cops, because anyone with a brain excommunicated from the libtard left and now you have a more diverse open minded freedom first conservative right whom are growing to be more anti cop the more libs leave that sinking ship bidenratpelosi ship their on.

Ah, well ya I have missed a few of our secret White Supremacy meetings where Trump issues us our monthly $5000 white privilege checks and instructs us on who to hate next, so maybe I’m out of the loop :P

My conservative family members still rock the Thin Blue Line memorabilia and support PD. But I have heard conservatives being against what they see as draconian orders for police to arrest people going outside their home during a lockdown or not wearing a mask, that kinda stuff

[F0rmsh1fter]

Ah, well ya I have missed a few of our secret White Supremacy meetings where Trump issues us our monthly $5000 white privilege checks and instructs us on who to hate next, so maybe I’m out of the loop :P

My conservative family members still rock the Thin Blue Line memorabilia and support PD. But I have heard conservatives being against what they see as draconian orders for police to arrest people going outside their home during a lockdown or not wearing a mask, that kinda stuff

$5000? LOL I get $12,000. You must be Italian and only entitled to partial white privilege

[unsunghero]

To some degree you have to support police, because without police it would be complete anarchy

On one hand, when I consider being given free reign to handle every confrontation myself any way I want, I picture this (minus the being an archangel who can charm women by looking at them):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g_FrQ86JET4


When in reality it would play out more like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cXCMz340CRg

[F0rmsh1fter]

The anarchy would be extremely brief. You’d have a pile of bodies after the first few days and people would start to realize that it’s more dangerous than ever to be a thug when police aren’t a thing

[Jibartik]

Ah, well ya I have missed a few of our secret White Supremacy meetings where Trump issues us our monthly $5000 white privilege checks and instructs us on who to hate next, so maybe I’m out of the loop :P

My conservative family members still rock the Thin Blue Line memorabilia and support PD. But I have heard conservatives being against what they see as draconian orders for police to arrest people going outside their home during a lockdown or not wearing a mask, that kinda stuff

I think the American tradition is, small to no federal police, and hang people who enter town from trees local police.

The left interoperate that to be hate the police because they need a 2a to protect themselves from them.