Lavastorm needs some loving

[eqravenprince]

I think Lavastorm deserves a ZEM increase. Very underused zone, way better than Oasis.

[DeliciousHalflings]

Lavastorm sucks. Period. There's a reason why 20+ years later people still use the same 'hotspots' for leveling and other zones are practically empty. If you enjoy the zone, good on you, keep the mobs for yourself. Overall, between the need for levitate to have remotely efficient travel, no major landmarks to direct people other than 'X direction from rings', and a general ugliness, even with a ZEM I suspect most people would pass on Lavastorm in favor of a better zone.

[Ooloo]

Not to mention the pants-shitting lavastorm explosion noise, which after 20 years I still always forget about and it scares the shit out of me every time

[Ooloo]

Blackburrow is always empty these days which makes me sad. I remember back in the day there'd be like 30 people in zone with multiple groups, and there'd *still* somehow be full trains to zone all the time. Now, if there's like 3 people in zone basically every mob will be dead.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yeah sadly lavastorm is kind of an annoying zone to play in. You have low HP at the level range lavastorm is good, and there are a lot of things that can chunk your HP down in lavastorm, which will slow down your xping.

Forget about a lava pool at the bottom of a hill? Might take some lava damage.

Don't have levitate to avoid fall damage? Need to be careful about running up and down the majority of the zone, which is hills.

Didn't see a mob due to the hills? Guess you have at least one extra mob on your pull.

I do remember leveling there on Live though. Pulling to Najena entrance wasn't bad if you can stick to that area, and you can run into Najena if things get hairy.

[cd288]

Yeah sadly lavastorm is kind of an annoying zone to play in. You have low HP at the level range lavastorm is good, and there are a lot of things that can chunk your HP down in lavastorm, which will slow down your xping.

Forget about a lava pool at the bottom of a hill? Might take some lava damage.

Don't have levitate to avoid fall damage? Need to be careful about running up and down the majority of the zone, which is hills.

Didn't see a mob due to the hills? Guess you have at least one extra mob on your pull.

I do remember leveling there on Live though. Pulling to Najena entrance wasn't bad if you can stick to that area, and you can run into Najena if things get hairy.

So then those are all arguments for why there should be a bit of a higher ZEM boost there. Risk vs reward

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So then those are all arguments for why there should be a bit of a higher ZEM boost there. Risk vs reward

I am all for increasing Lavastorm ZEM, I don't see a problem with it. But I don't think it will offset the problems I mentioned, unless the ZEM increase is ridiculous, like making it another Unrest or something.

[Ooloo]

To be fair increasing the CT zem definitely did get people to start making pickup groups there, and it's also an extremely annoying and potentially dangerous zone with all the adds and healing mobs. It was a ghost town before the change.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

To be fair increasing the CT zem definitely did get people to start making pickup groups there, and it's also an extremely annoying and potentially dangerous zone with all the adds and healing mobs. It was a ghost town before the change.

True. But I would say CT is a better zone overall because you get much better loot for the level range. Lavastorm is just a leveling zone, and there is plenty of competition for good leveling zones in that level range.

[Jimjam]

Lavastorm is respectable cash for the teens. Not on par with guk, certainly better than most alternatives.

[Jibartik]

Lavastorm is the shit! I love that zone. Anyone who doesnt like it is a cucky halfelf or half something.

Not a pure blood darkelf who is superior in every way and enjoys the thundering sound of the gods clashing above the obsidian playground of my childhood.

Scerw you guys.

[loramin]

I think Lavastorm deserves a ZEM increase. Very underused zone, way better than Oasis.

Agreed. And the same goes for its higher level cousin, Skyfire Mountains.

It's a gigantic zone full of high level mobs to kill ... and the only reason anyone ever goes there is to get to/from Burning Woods/The Overthere/Veeshan's Peak (or for Talendor). It's a completely missed opportunity as a place for higher level characters to XP.

[DeliciousHalflings]

Not to mention the pants-shitting lavastorm explosion noise, which after 20 years I still always forget about and it scares the shit out of me every time

Omg I forgot about that! That, too!

[DeliciousHalflings]

Lavastorm is shit! I love cucky halfelf.

Scerw you guys.

Fixed.

[Jibartik]

you ruined qeynos hills youll not ruin lavastorm!

[Ooloo]

Omg I forgot about that! That, too!

what? why is one of your 14 posts that?

[Jimjam]

Agreed. And the same goes for its higher level cousin, Skyfire Mountains.

It's a gigantic zone full of high level mobs to kill ... and the only reason anyone ever goes there is to get to/from Burning Woods/The Overthere/Veeshan's Peak (or for Talendor). It's a completely missed opportunity as a place for higher level characters to XP.

People pretend dungeons are harder than travel zones to level. It felt true on live. It certainly isn’t here though. Travel zones are a pita to level in on p99. I’m not sure why.

Maybe mob density or pathing is different?

[Maliant]

Agreed. And the same goes for its higher level cousin, Skyfire Mountains.

It's a gigantic zone full of high level mobs to kill ... and the only reason anyone ever goes there is to get to/from Burning Woods/The Overthere/Veeshan's Peak (or for Talendor). It's a completely missed opportunity as a place for higher level characters to XP.

People used to run G Wurm groups outside VP quite regularly. Especially torpor hungry shamans. Exp could be boosted I suppose but most people capable of doing gwurms with 3-6 people are probably 60 already.

[loramin]

People used to run G Wurm groups outside VP quite regularly. Especially torpor hungry shamans. Exp could be boosted I suppose but most people capable of doing gwurms with 3-6 people are probably 60 already.

Oh yeah, I forgot about gwurm farming. But still, 95+% of the zone sits ignored and unused by level 50-somethings, despite being full of mobs (ostensibly) for them.

Of course, classically it was never a super popular XP zone either, as the mobs there have more HP than (say) the neighboring BW giants... but even so, I do remember people on live leveling there.

[Tethler]

I occasionally see necros fear kiting in skyfire. No groups though unless farming named cycle for epic mobs/spells.

[DeliciousHalflings]

you ruined qeynos hills youll not ruin lavastorm!

Lavastorm was ruined long before I got here.

[DeliciousHalflings]

what? why is one of your 14 posts that?

It's 16 now, and clearly because I was agreeing with you about how awful the random 'volcano' explosion is while running through LS.

[reznor_]

Not to mention the pants-shitting lavastorm explosion noise, which after 20 years I still always forget about and it scares the shit out of me every time

Every god damn time

[Chortles Snortles]

lavabore

[Keza]

Lavastorm sucks. Period. There's a reason why 20+ years later people still use the same 'hotspots' for leveling and other zones are practically empty. If you enjoy the zone, good on you, keep the mobs for yourself. Overall, between the need for levitate to have remotely efficient travel, no major landmarks to direct people other than 'X direction from rings', and a general ugliness, even with a ZEM I suspect most people would pass on Lavastorm in favor of a better zone.

There's a reason people still play WoW instead of FFXIV despite FF being superior in every way in regards to both being themepark MMORPGs. It's because that's what they do and they'll do it because they do it and they won't stop doing it because that's not what they do until they stop doing it which they never will. The reason people go to Oasis is because they do. They did in the past, they do now and they will in the future. They likely don't even know if the mobs in LS are easier or harder than Oasis. These kinds of people need alluring bait to be lured from their caves, like ZEM changes. That said, I don't think Lavastorm needs ZEM changes as it's already viable. It just needs people to actually go there instead of saying it's bad without having any idea what they're talking about.

The only plausible argument against LS would be the terrain hiding enemies. Otherwise it's a centrally located with a TP that makes it easily accessible with several similarly leveled zones connecting directly to it allowing you to go 1-max while barely moving from a city. As for landmarks, there are many, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. You can usually see one by climbing any random hill. Shadowmen rings, gypsy camps, goblin camps, Najena, Nek ZL, and the caldera. It's really simple to remember that the giant caldera is directly across the zone from the Nek ZL, rings are topleft, Najena is bottom right and Shadowmen are bottom left with nothing topright and camps in the middle. You always have a landmark.

I feel like people claiming LS is bad have never tried leveling in a truly bad zone. Anything with goblins is terrible. Tiny hallways, tons of adds, healing through walls, fleeing and massive wizard nukes. You need to make meta groups unless you have twinks/PLs to survive. You'd have to pay most people to exp in Dalnir. Fifteen minutes to get there with a port and knowing the path, trapped once you fall down and an NPC potentially guarding the exit that can obliterate max level players in an instant with an OPAF melee proc. Now that's a zone that wouldn't see groups traverse even with a ZEM buff.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

There's a reason people still play WoW instead of FFXIV despite FF being superior in every way in regards to both being themepark MMORPGs. It's because that's what they do and they'll do it because they do it and they won't stop doing it because that's not what they do until they stop doing it which they never will. The reason people go to Oasis is because they do. They did in the past, they do now and they will in the future. They likely don't even know if the mobs in LS are easier or harder than Oasis. These kinds of people need alluring bait to be lured from their caves, like ZEM changes. That said, I don't think Lavastorm needs ZEM changes as it's already viable. It just needs people to actually go there instead of saying it's bad without having any idea what they're talking about.

The only plausible argument against LS would be the terrain hiding enemies. Otherwise it's a centrally located with a TP that makes it easily accessible with several similarly leveled zones connecting directly to it allowing you to go 1-max while barely moving from a city. As for landmarks, there are many, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. You can usually see one by climbing any random hill. Shadowmen rings, gypsy camps, goblin camps, Najena, Nek ZL, and the caldera. It's really simple to remember that the giant caldera is directly across the zone from the Nek ZL, rings are topleft, Najena is bottom right and Shadowmen are bottom left with nothing topright and camps in the middle. You always have a landmark.

I feel like people claiming LS is bad have never tried leveling in a truly bad zone. Anything with goblins is terrible. Tiny hallways, tons of adds, healing through walls, fleeing and massive wizard nukes. You need to make meta groups unless you have twinks/PLs to survive. You'd have to pay most people to exp in Dalnir. Fifteen minutes to get there with a port and knowing the path, trapped once you fall down and an NPC potentially guarding the exit that can obliterate max level players in an instant with an OPAF melee proc. Now that's a zone that wouldn't see groups traverse even with a ZEM buff.

I leveled in Lavastorm and Najena on live. It is certainly do-able, and I don't remember it being bad. However, the reason why people leveled in Lavastorm on live was probably because it was easier to do a corpse run (can be bound in Neriak). People were probably more likely to pick race based on starting location as well, unlike P99. Ports were harder to come by back then, and a lack of game knowledge made traveling much more dangerous. Also, Oasis was more dangerous on live due to lag, viewing distance being reduced, and trains. You were much more likely to get killed by a Sand Giant or train.

On P99 that doesn't matter quite as much since ports are easy, game knowledge is prevalent, computers can play the game at max viewing distance, and many people are twinked. Oasis is generally easier to play in than Lavastorm on P99 because the only true obstacles are random Sand Giants, which are generally easy to see and avoid, and trains aren't really a thing in Oasis anymore.

The problem with Lavastorm is the mob level range is in a bit of a weird spot. Oasis and the Ro's can occupy you from early teens until early 20s. Lavastorm peters out sooner than early 20s if memory serves, and then you have to run elsewhere anyway. Leveling from 1-30 doesn't take that long if you know what you are doing, so the leveling progression in the desert is better anyway. You could go into Najena after Lavastorm peters out, but it is more dangerous.

[cd288]

People leveled in LS because they weren’t fully aware of other options. There’s a reason that once knowledge started filtering out better Oasis was always crowded and LS was empty

[ReoDobbs]

Tbf I don't understand how/why they come up with the ZEM changes they do. Or even when, why decrease ZEMS across the board two months ago after so many have leveled? Seems like a great way to punish newer players.

Anyway the ZEM differences of zones seems to be getting less and less different so people are just going to find the laziest/easiest zones to escape if things get hairy if there's no risk vs reward.

I think both Lavastorm and Dragnor's Cayldron ZEMS should be through the roof

[Zendir]

Tbf I don't understand how/why they come up with the ZEM changes they do. Or even when, why decrease ZEMS across the board two months ago after so many have leveled? Seems like a great way to punish newer players.

Anyway the ZEM differences of zones seems to be getting less and less different so people are just going to find the laziest/easiest zones to escape if things get hairy if there's no risk vs reward.

I think both Lavastorm and Dragnor's Cayldron ZEMS should be through the roof

Looking at the outdoor zones for ZEM, I dont see any with a bonus ZEM. I see many Kunark outdoor zones with negative ZEM(Which is total BS), even though I remember those places were great XP places.

I think the devs here feel the risk v reward is for dungeons. Things can go wrong in a heartbeat a whole lot quicker in a dungeon than an outdoor zone, for the most part.

[Gustoo]

Kunark EXP was dog shit on live, it was only a good leveling spot because a lot of people were leveling up and only in kunark could you just plop a group down in the middle of a gigantic zone and start pulling to your group.

It was like camp fires at a beach the first groups were in easier closer to zone line spots and other groups got further away to have pulls to themselves and stuff.

But the EXP was terrible it was just the constant churn that made it overall OK but still basically worse than any old world zone but those only supported 2 or so groups at a time.

[Ooloo]

That's true I seem to have memories of living in loio for what felt like several years on live

[PatChapp]

I also remember spending a lot of levels in loio on live, was very popular

[Tunabros]

lavastorm sucks ass

[Keza]

I leveled in Lavastorm and Najena on live. It is certainly do-able, and I don't remember it being bad. However, the reason why people leveled in Lavastorm on live was probably because it was easier to do a corpse run (can be bound in Neriak). People were probably more likely to pick race based on starting location as well, unlike P99. Ports were harder to come by back then, and a lack of game knowledge made traveling much more dangerous. Also, Oasis was more dangerous on live due to lag, viewing distance being reduced, and trains. You were much more likely to get killed by a Sand Giant or train.

On P99 that doesn't matter quite as much since ports are easy, game knowledge is prevalent, computers can play the game at max viewing distance, and many people are twinked. Oasis is generally easier to play in than Lavastorm on P99 because the only true obstacles are random Sand Giants, which are generally easy to see and avoid, and trains aren't really a thing in Oasis anymore.

The problem with Lavastorm is the mob level range is in a bit of a weird spot. Oasis and the Ro's can occupy you from early teens until early 20s. Lavastorm peters out sooner than early 20s if memory serves, and then you have to run elsewhere anyway. Leveling from 1-30 doesn't take that long if you know what you are doing, so the leveling progression in the desert is better anyway. You could go into Najena after Lavastorm peters out, but it is more dangerous.

Generally speaking I agree. Oasis is better, but do you think LS needs a ZEM buff? Oasis is slightly better and basically next door. If one is overcrowded, isn't the other fine? I consider this a "well, shit, this is camped. Guess I'll go somewhere else" scenario, but the OP's argument is more like "well, shit, this is camped. The staff better make this other zone better so that I'm not left out." Zones aren't equal and it's first come first serve. Even if the game were rebalanced - even if the ZEMs were changed - there's always gonna be a meta. If LS becomes OP we'll see posts demanding Oasis be buffed. (*Just to mention on OP, since my claim might seem confusing, they appear to make a lot of 1-line threads that seem to bait argument. Their intent doesn't seem to be beneficial to the server and in this case it's contradictory to their own statement. If it's better than Oasis it doesn't need a ZEM buff.)

I would say game knowledge should make LS all the better on P99 specifically. Oasis is technically easier because gators don't aggro and you have better lines of sight, but if you know where to stand in LS you're fine. There's not as many trains on p99 but p2 and the orcs were generally safe on live so it's not too much more dangerous than LS - and the mobs trained on you in LS aren't level 35. The problem is if everyone goes there then there's overcrowding. This was the case on live and on P99, especially on the XP highway zones like Oasis. Such was what caused Teal to exist, even though I think it was a kneejerk reaction because there are alternatives like LS. Lag is hard to quantify, but it did exist. I'd also add that a lot of leeches (on live and P99) go to Oasis just for the buffs at docks which causes overcrowding. It's another thing that's hard to quantify, but I've never been asked for buffs at the LS rings on live or P99 whereas waiting for a boat gives players an excuse to beg and has happened to me often.

The level range issue is true, but the travel distance from LS to Oasis isn't anything to comment about. Unlike a game like FFXI where people leveled in and departed a zone at a fixed rate (e.g. Valkurm Dunes is 10-20, Qufim Island is 20-25, (insert 3-12+ hours doing an airship key quest) Yuhtunga Jungle is 25-30, etc) people on EQ easily flitter around to wherever makes sense depending on the circumstance. If we're to disregard unpopulated dungeons like Najena and Befallen that are definitely "needing some loving," then we're still left with the reality than Uguk is populated and maybe 6~ minutes further from Lavastorm compared to Oasis, with both zones capable of getting you to Uguk's level range. If anything I say this is a reason to buff Najena and Befallen.

ZEM is one of those things that I think staff can easily play with without outraging too many people, so I think it's a very valid argument. Someone else mentioned a lot of Kunark zones had ZEM negatives. LoIO was one of those and I spent tons of time there on live, as well as FM/OT/DL. The reason is because other people were there so I could find a group. It had nothing to do with ZEM, difficulty or loot (not that I comprehended ZEM at the time). This is why I say LS would be fine if people merely went there, but no one does. Dalnir is seriously shit though. Seriously.

[starkind]

P99 needs an ez server that ends in luclin where soloing on a caster to 60 with 1000 aas only takes about two weeks. Or 80 hrs played tops.

60hrs would be more sane and reasonable.

[cd288]

I also remember spending a lot of levels in loio on live, was very popular

Because on live mostly people went where convenience and safety dictated. LOIO is a relatively safe zone with lots of mobs and it’s right next to FV for melees. In modern day, people min/max exp and so they’re not really interested in staying near bind points etc to a certain extent. Especially since loio apparently has a lower ZEM on p99 than other zones

[Jimjam]

Loio has a bunch of cool items if you are a new player on a new server where no one knows how to play and you have no better than store bought leather and a store bought longsword.

[eqravenprince]

(*Just to mention on OP, since my claim might seem confusing, they appear to make a lot of 1-line threads that seem to bait argument. Their intent doesn't seem to be beneficial to the server and in this case it's contradictory to their own statement. If it's better than Oasis it doesn't need a ZEM buff.)


I do like to bait discussions not arguments. However, boosting zem to Lavastorm would be no different than how the devs boosted Gorge. No one went there, so they boosted it. It's as simple as that.

[sonicjoose]

XP modifier for lavastorm please

[greenspectre]

When Green/Teal was fresh my shammy got some of his upper teens soloing at the Najena entrance in lavastorm. Exp there wasn't exactly exciting, but it was steady and safe. And occasionally you could jump in on a group actually IN Najena.

[Ransurian]

Getting a little off topic here, but...

Attempting to corral players into certain zones and achieve population balance through ZEM modifiers is a nice gesture, but honestly, leveling in general would be so much more enjoyable if groups were more viable / efficient than soloing in more zones. Too often, you see solo players hogging camps with their Iksar necromancers or twinked out monks or whatever, and it just destroys the magic of EQ when you see stuff like that all the time.

Of course, there's the argument that a really good and efficient group might be able to XP faster than a solo player, but that argument doesn't realistically hold up. I can't count the number of times I've invited solo mages or necromancers into my groups to share mobs only to be turned down.

I know it'll probably never happen, but I'd be thrilled to see a buff to group XP that actually encourages larger groups.

[Ooloo]

^^^ That.

[loramin]

Getting a little off topic here, but...

Attempting to corral players into certain zones and achieve population balance through ZEM modifiers is a nice gesture, but honestly, leveling in general would be so much more enjoyable if groups were more viable / efficient than soloing in more zones. Too often, you see solo players hogging camps with their Iksar necromancers or twinked out monks or whatever, and it just destroys the magic of EQ when you see stuff like that all the time.

Of course, there's the argument that a really good and efficient group might be able to XP faster than a solo player, but that argument doesn't realistically hold up. I can't count the number of times I've invited solo mages or necromancers into my groups to share mobs only to be turned down.

I know it'll probably never happen, but I'd be thrilled to see a buff to group XP that actually encourages larger groups.

As I said in another thread, implementing this would be trivially easy: there already is a group bonus to XP, and they already know how to increase it (it's much higher on Red).

So literally the only reason soloing is better than grouping here (for solo classes at least) is because ... Rogean and Nilbog want it that way.