Rumors about 2H Dmg Bonus?

[Vanessa]

I've heard so many different people in game tell me so many different things, and I've looked through patch notes recently and I don't see anything that actually gives a straight answer. The only thing I've seen is "Classic 2H Damage".

What exactly is happening with 2H damage? Ive heard that there is going to be a patch that is going to make the damage bonus's is weapons "Classic Like" which apparently means that all 1H and all 2H damage bonus's will be the same regardless of the delay or anything else. For example, an RFS would be more DPS then a Tstaff because the same 2H damage bonus will be applied to the 20dly RFS as it is to the 30dly Tstaff. Basically meaning the super fast weapons like Moss Twig and RFS will be the highest raw damage dps.

However Ive also heard that it is going to be changed to where ONLY weapons with more then 28 delay will have damage bonus's and weapons under 28 delay will not. Meaning the RFS will turn into a pretty terrible weapon, but Tstaff will be god like.


So confused right now, does anyone actually know what will / is going on with the damage stuff or is it all just assuming?

[Slave]

It's basically all assumption because the developers here do not follow the Classic rules and timeline 100%, they mostly tend to fit it in with their idea of how the server should be.

[Ronas]

if thats the case, need update on warrior hit agro. Live you use to be able to get agro by taunting and holding it fine with 2 lammy. Now you have to taunt and have some kind of procing weopon to hold agro. Was there some kind of modifier for warrior to generate more agro then other classes per hit? I remember quicker weopons with a decent dmg ratio holding agro pretty damn well on live.

[Slave]

Case in point.

[Cippofra]

I played an ogre warrior through kunark and velious and never had any issues holding aggro, even with crappy weapons like a jade mace at 60 in sebilis, later on after luclin I know warriors started complaining that they were pretty useless tanks due to aggro holding compared to pallies and sks

[Slave]

Warrior is pretty much my least favorite class to invite to a group (next to druids ofc), for this reason. They are pretty much useless outside of a raid scenario in P99.

[Dantes]

That's not true at all. I get tells to come join groups within 5 minutes of logging on. It has been a bit harder to keep aggro since the proc rate was reduced, but people are just rooting every mob. I hope, and assume they will continue to look into swing/hit aggro and how it applies to Warriors.

[VincentVolaju]

I just wish the dev's could give us an idea of what they plan on doing. Even if it won't be out for a while, at least let us know what the plan is so everyone is on the same page and not just assuming how it will end up.

[Ronas]

dated 2001

"Sure at higher lvl the lam will take the agro. And speed will play a larger roll, but don't buy into the mith that speed always take agro. More often than not at higher lvl speed equils more damage and that is why the faster weapons hold agro. And for most weapons speed starts to take over between lvl 45 and 55. "

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=578

So i am not alone even back in the days that warriors would be holding agro or thinking that quick weopons hold better agro, but its more about ratio on the weopons then just being a quick weopon. Currently on p99 regardless what non procing weopon u are using, u are not able to hold agro if it has no proc.

If this topic was brought up before can relink back to that thread, sorry to derail the 2h bonus issue.

[Slave]

They just don't hold aggro as well as any other tank. I'd honestly rather have a bard tanking than a warrior. Warriors kill groups.

[Ronas]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39361

Found it. Now how to implement it in to fix war agro is the question :eek:

[Dantes]

They just don't hold aggro as well as any other tank. I'd honestly rather have a bard tanking than a warrior. Warriors kill groups.

It's not easy. But if you get somebody well geared who knows their shit, you'll be fine. My groups stay alive. As for the bard thing, now you're just trolling. I've seen bards tank Sebilis, they tank from the ground, in the fetal position.

Just like everybody else, I recall keeping aggro fine with non-proc weapons on live. I didn't play past Velious so I have no memories of later expansions to confuse things with. Believe me I hope they fix it, but it's not as terrible as some people make it sound. There's a lot of warriors out there with shit gear who were powerleveled or purchased, naturally they're going to suck. But don't let a few bad apples ruin the whole class, there's some awesome Warriors out there.

[Hastley]

I dont think ive ever even posted but please explain how a warrior sucks, all you do is auto attack and press taunt every few seconds, seems pretty simple. It is obviously a mechanics problem and not a skill problem due to the lack of complexity of the exp group warrior tank. I would be interested what aspect of warrior agro is related to skill though.

[Ronas]

I dont think ive ever even posted but please explain how a warrior sucks, all you do is auto attack and press taunt every few seconds, seems pretty simple. It is obviously a mechanics problem and not a skill problem due to the lack of complexity of the exp group warrior tank. I would be interested what aspect of warrior agro is related to skill though.

You just answered your own question, warrior suck because of mechanics.

[Cippofra]

During kunark and velious a warrior was the best tank. Period. Dont even remember seeing other tanks around. And its not like the mechanics of holding aggro is difficult for any class. But being a good tank in general undoubtedly takes the most skill of any role

[naekko]

During kunark and velious a warrior was the best tank. Period. Dont even remember seeing other tanks around. And its not like the mechanics of holding aggro is difficult for any class. But being a good tank in general undoubtedly takes the most skill of any role

Oh really, the holding aggro is super easy but somehow being a good tank takes the most skill of any role? Shut the fuck up.

[bulbousaur]

The agro thing is also a function of the rest of the group being watchful and learning when to turn off attack/not overnuke etc.

[Spacebar]

Can I suggest to the original poster to change the title of this thread to something like "Warrior Woes" or "plz fix warriors and stuff".

Sort of back on topic, though. I was actually wondering about this 2 handed damage bonus thing. I was under the impression that by "classic 2h damage" it means that all weapons get the same damage bonus regardless of 1h or 2h until a later patch. In a later patch, they will make it where there is an added damage bonus to 2h =>28, and another =>40.

I don't know what the damage bonus for 2hers was on P99 before that patch. But I do know but after that patch people with nice 2h weps like Tstaff, etc were a little...unhappy.

[Extunarian]

I don't know why you call these 'rumors' because the answers are easily found on this site.

Here is where we are currently:

This should be the correct calculation for two handed weapon damage bonuses with delay not factored into the calculation:

(Level-25)/2



Looking ahead, when the patch that brought us Epics was released (9/19/2000) the following mechanical changes for damage bonus calculations were also implemented:

The damage-bonus for low-delay two-handed weapons (27 or below) created a problem similar to the weapons above and has been reduced. The damage-bonus has not changed for normal-delay (28-39) two-handed weapons. The damage bonus for high-delay two-handed weapons (40+) has been increased.

[Cippofra]

I do remember at one time moss covered twigs being extremely popular due to the whole dmg bonus more often idea, but I seem to remember it was in the very early days. As for my warrior, I always felt like I had better aggro dual wielding. Process was always pretty simple in groups. Taunt twice, bash/stun to break cc and attack. I never cared for procs because it's just too random

[Dantes]

I dont think ive ever even posted but please explain how a warrior sucks, all you do is auto attack and press taunt every few seconds, seems pretty simple. It is obviously a mechanics problem and not a skill problem due to the lack of complexity of the exp group warrior tank. I would be interested what aspect of warrior agro is related to skill though.

That's a good example. Taunt doesn't work on mobs over level 50. And, when it does actually work, you don't press it every few seconds. Taunt adds +1 hate on top of whoever is already on the top of the list. You use it when a mob switches targets to snap them back. It's less about skill and more about knowledge. Knowing how the mechanics work and using them to your advantage, and then equipping yourself accordingly, even if it means less DPS. A warrior who sucks is a warrior who doesn't understand that.

Back to the 2H thing... I would hope that means that the bonus applied to low delay weapons will be re-applied back when epics are released. It sounds like something that wasn't supposed to be implemented yet, so they yanked it.

[Gustahn]

It is amazing how nobody can stay on topic on these boards...

An actual interesting talk on 2hndrs turns into pissing about gimp class mechanics....really?

[Extunarian]

Back to the 2H thing... I would hope that means that the bonus applied to low delay weapons will be re-applied back when epics are released. It sounds like something that wasn't supposed to be implemented yet, so they yanked it.

I don't think I follow. Right now, for any weapon regardless of delay, we should have a set damage bonus based on user level. That is why low delay 2-handed weapons have an advantage over high delay 2-handers.

The change that should be implemented about 5 months after Kunark will be:
delay < 28: bonus reduced
28 <= delay <= 39: bonus stays the same
delay > 40: bonus is increased

[Hastley]

Regardless of when you press it or not, warriors have two things that make them, obtain additional threat. Weapon procs, and in your example pressing taunt when threat is loss. I don't understand how the argument that being more knowledgeable about the snap mechanic makes you a better tank in an exp group. Aside from mob placement (read: available for melee to strike), and taunting prior to breaking met i see very little dynamic content available to the warrior class. Perhaps, and i don't know you so im not suggesting this is the case, you are under simplifying warriors to validate yourself as a warrior.

I don't know you, and don't think i have ever grouped with you. I would very much be interested in hearing beyond the knowledge of the snap agro of a tank, what differentiates a good tanks threat and a bad tanks threat in an exp group situation that CAN be controlled by the warrior (i.e. not random proccing of ykesha or similar threat inducing weapon effects). I ask this because your proposal suggests that the warrior class is acceptable in threat generation and that the problem is player skill. I have heard anecdotal evidence from warriors with 2 x Ringed Mace of the Ykesha, and other top agro producing weapons (read: BBoDE) that they are encountering problems when grouping with T-staff equipped monks and rogues above the 55th level.

In short, it seems like you attribute to some extent the warrior agro problem to skill while i would contend at this point its purely a mechanical issue in part because a warrior in an exp party setting is one of the least dynamic classes in kunark on this server. There is no decision tree play style. You simply pick an npc , auto-attack, hope for weapon procs, and if snap agro is needed press taunt (although ill continue to press taunt every time its up just in case).

[azeth]

T-staff equipped rogues above the 55th level.

not so much a backstab, as much as literal rape with this class/item combo.

[Dantes]

I don't think I follow. Right now, for any weapon regardless of delay, we should have a set damage bonus based on user level. That is why low delay 2-handed weapons have an advantage over high delay 2-handers.

The change that should be implemented about 5 months after Kunark will be:
delay < 28: bonus reduced
28 <= delay <= 39: bonus stays the same
delay > 40: bonus is increased

Well so did they nerf 2H slash bonus here recently or not?

[Rejuvenation]

Well so did they nerf 2H slash bonus here recently or not?

Yes. Bonuses are lower than they used to be.

[Skope]

Unless i'm mistaken, warrior aggro here should be the same as it was on live at this period, meaning it's based on swings + taunt + procs. A fast weapon with a proc would be ideal, though admittedly that relies heavily on the proc modifier and the aggro generated by the proc itself.

Haven't tried 2-handers pre or post patch, but Jorg is right. At some point on live the devs kicked in the >40 delay significant increase in dmg bonus. Helped hybrid classes quite a bit and warriors who went the DPS route, but unless the proc was incredible warriors would strictly stick to two one-handers

[Akim]

I am aware people are going to be mad about this, but this is a correct implementation.

Onto the warrior debate; It's always been the groups job to not steal aggro just as much as it's the warriors, him being limited. This is not the same for a higher level paladin and any level shadowknight for obvious reasons, but they bring a 40% penalty (atleast) into the group. I've loved duos&trios with a warrior (cleric and warrior, shaman and warrior, plus dps) the key being I've kept them under the critical range the entire time, beating mobs senseless with insane crippling blows. Much better exp for me then duo'ing with a SK or Pal.

And if you're mad about grouping with a level 20 warrior with no gear at all, I understand. And my suggestion is don't do it. :/

[azeth]

And if you're mad about grouping with a level 20 warrior with no gear at all, I understand. And my suggestion is don't do it. :/

i think the thing that irritates most people about this "level 20 warrior" (example) is that he likely had enough platinum to double up on Obsidian Shards, but opted instead for some random shiny gear to make himself feel like a REAL warrior.

even as a warrior, if by your mid 20s you haven't picked up Obsidians (and i can guarantee you have the plat for it we're talking less than 500), you're not doing YOUR job at that point.

[Dantes]

In short, it seems like you attribute to some extent the warrior agro problem to skill while i would contend at this point its purely a mechanical issue in part because a warrior in an exp party setting is one of the least dynamic classes in kunark on this server. There is no decision tree play style. You simply pick an npc , auto-attack, hope for weapon procs, and if snap agro is needed press taunt (although ill continue to press taunt every time its up just in case).

I attribute it to how well geared they are. Like I said in my first reply, if the Warrior is well geared and he knows what he's doing, a group is fine with a Warrior tank. You'll have better mitigation and mana efficient heals. And no exp penalty. I didn't say anything about skill, but I do believe it takes some level of skill to play ANY role in a group. The tank is one of those who actually has to pay attention. The group awaits you to prioritize and to call out targets. You can't be half AFK with one hand on your dick.

[VincentVolaju]

So are you guys saying that if a Warrior is geared (Obsidian Shards till 37 then Yakeshas) that he should have no problem holding aggro in xp groups, and would do just as well at it as an SK w/ snap aggro spell?

Im actually thinking of making a Tank now and I really don't want to be evil / 40% xp penalty, however if I am going to have a hell of a time keep aggro off my monks and rogues in my group then is it really worth it to be a warrior on this server? I dont plan on end-game raiding either, im talking stricting 1-50ish

[Droop]

It is just as much the job of the rogue or monk to not get aggro as it is for you to keep it. It really goes both ways.

With that in mind, a well played warrior rocks. Don't they give like a 10% bonus to XP? I have never had any problems with a warrior if he/she is played right. SK/Pal's are pretty much easymode when it comes to aggro though because of spells. Specially the SK's!

[Ronas]

1-50 warriors can since they can taunt it, but mob generally switch all over the place and the warrior would have to keep taunting.

50-55 they almost useless but lucky enough most the mobs are under 50 so can still xp fine with warriors doing it. Same concept tho, mob turning all over the place.

51+ mob, summoning... warrior useless here. At this stage if the warrior doesnt get off the procs and the mob isnt rooted/cc or anything the group will have someone die. Seen this all the time, cleric gets summoned, cleric gets raped, group complain warrior sucks tank.

Someone said warrior for raiding scene, thats kind of incorrect too. Most raids would use sk/paladin for the instant agro and agro management. All healers focus heal and rape the boss as quick as they can. If using a warrior tank though, alot of ping pong going on and all the dps classes die. Sure warriors have defensive and stuff, but no point if the boss not hitting them.