Wurmslayer Nerf - Clarification

[Lucia Moonglow]

I've heard that the wurmslayer will be nerfed to a Lore item as well as primary only on P99. In classic, it was only nerfed to primary-only, not lore.

I don't want to have two of these on me when the nerf hits, so can anyone please clarify this?

Also, can we get a timeline on when the nerf is going to hit?

[Rais]

August 9,2000

The Wurmslayer is now a one-handed slashing weapon.

Feb 21,2001

The Wurmslayer will now fit in a bag.

It was changed to primary only. I can't find the info for when it was changed. That is all I could find at the moment about the Wurmslayer

[Lucia Moonglow]

It would be nice if the devs could tell us when they plan to do it instead of just dropping it in our laps without warning.

[Sajan]

dropping it in our laps without warning.

Classic EQ!

[notjasonlee]

i'm afraid to say that infuriating you is part of the eq experience.

[Aro2220x]

more like its part of every mmo experience ever

[Lucia Moonglow]

A balance between nerfing and being considerate would be nice. After all, this server's not being run by a big corporate entity.

Edit: I'm not saying it's inconsiderate of them not to tell us, I'm only saying that they shouldn't go out of their way to avoid a warning for the sake of being "classic". Either way, I in no way intended to imply that they owe us any sort of warning.

[Sethius]

A balance between nerfing and being considerate would be nice. After all, this server's not being run by a big corporate entity.

You are right, there is nothing more important going on for the Dev's of P99 than to tell you personally about the wurmslayer nerf so that you won't be inconvenienced. How ignorant of them! Shame on them and their free server, that they put so much time and energy into for little compensation other than the reward of re-creating the classic EQ experience for others to enjoy, for not being considerate of you in their nerfing.

Shame on them. /sarcasm

Enjoy the game, don't get bent out of shape for the little things.

[Lucia Moonglow]

You are right, there is nothing more important going on for the Dev's of P99 than to tell you personally about the wurmslayer nerf so that you won't be inconvenienced. How ignorant of them! Shame on them and their free server, that they put so much time and energy into for little compensation other than the reward of re-creating the classic EQ experience for others to enjoy, for not being considerate of you in their nerfing.

Shame on them.

Classic example of an argumentative exaggeration fallacy.

Disregarding the glaring hyperbole of your post, I'm neither expecting nor insisting that any of the devs drop everything they're doing to reply to this post (as you have essentially implied that I have), I am merely hoping that one of them might stop by and either give an ETA or explain that there isn't one.

[Sethius]

Classic example of an argumentative exaggeration fallacy.

Disregarding the glaring hyperbole of your post, I'm neither expecting nor insisting that any of the devs drop everything they're doing to reply to this post (as you have essentially implied that I have), I am merely hoping that one of them might stop by and either give an ETA or explain that there isn't one.

Your post sounded coarse and appeared to me that you were insinuating that the P99 team should be more considerate when they nerf things in general, which is a pretty strange request given how much they already do for us for basically nothing in return.

Your request about the wurmslayer may or may not be high on their priority list, but saying in general that a balance between nerfs and being considerate would be nice seems a little judgemental of them, as if they don't already do that.

It was a sarcastic joke with a slight edge, no direct offense intended. You seem a bit wound.

[Lucia Moonglow]

Actually, what I meant was that the devs should not pointedly avoid telling us in the hopes of seeming more "classic". If they can't get around to it, then they can't and that's fine. I'm only saying that it would be nice if they didn't intentionally put it off just to try and be more like Verant.

[Sethius]

Actually, what I meant was that the devs should not pointedly avoid telling us in the hopes of seeming more "classic". If they can't get around to it, then they can't and that's fine. I'm only saying that it would be nice if they didn't intentionally put it off just to try and be more like Verant.

They might be able to get around to it, who knows, I certainly don't. I don't think they avoid helping us and informing us to seem more classic at all either. They seem very talkative about issues and bugs and changes imo, a godzillian times more than any paid mmo I've played.

Re-read your post, you can probably see how I didn't make the connection to what you are saying here in this post. They have little semblance to one another, but often times our thoughts are not expressed wholly in our words, and I can appreciate that. Regardless, I think your point here is sound but my belief is you have nothing to fear. They are certainly doing their best. Perhaps one will even stop by and fill in the details on the wurmslayer. I'm sure they won't avoid it on purpose.

[Lucia Moonglow]

The issue is that I'm thinking of buying a second one to dual wield while the getting's still good, as it were, and sell it or twink another character with it once it goes Primary only. However, items have a nasty habit of poofing if they suddenly become lore, and while the Wurmslayer was never lore on live, the rumors are unnerving.

[Dantes]

Who cares if it poofs, it'll be worthless after the nerf anyway.

[Doors]

I don't think it would be a bad thing to get GM clarification on a popular weapon like this one.

[Lucia Moonglow]

Who cares if it poofs, it'll be worthless after the nerf anyway.

Even in the primary hand, the damage/delay ratio on a Wurmslayer makes it a powerful mainhand. A lot of the negative stigma attached to the weapon was based on the false belief that your offhand only has a chance to swing when your main hand does. This is false. It is also based off of the idea that fast weapons mean more agro for warriors, when it's simply damage output that makes this determination, as I've seen by consistently pulling agro off of warriors while using the Wurmslayer myself.

The Wurmslayer has a DPS ratio of 1.6, which is better than a lot of weapons until the higher levels where the main hand damage bonus starts to make faster weapons more effective.

Just because a weapon is slow doesn't mean it's worthless.

It should also be noted that even at level 60, the damage bonus does not add a significant amount of DPS. The main hand damage bonus at 60 is 11. This means that with a 20 delay weapon, your main hand damage bonus would add 6.5 DPS, while with a 40 delay weapon the increase would be 3.25. In other words, a wurmslayer's high delay will account for, at best, a 4-point base DPS difference, since few weapons in the Kunark era have a delay lower than 18.

The math is solid, and the fact remains that regardless of how slow it is, the Wurmslayer is still one of the best tradable 1HS weapons in the game (excluding knight-only ones) even for main hand use.

The only detriment it will suffer when nerfed is the inability to dual wield them, which is the real reason they were nerfed in the first place.

[Envious]

Even in the primary hand, the damage/delay ratio on a Wurmslayer makes it a powerful mainhand. A lot of the negative stigma attached to the weapon was based on the false belief that your offhand only has a chance to swing when your main hand does. This is false. It is also based off of the idea that fast weapons mean more agro for warriors, when it's simply damage output that makes this determination, as I've seen by consistently pulling agro off of warriors while using the Wurmslayer myself

I dont know what your real point is, and dont care. Warrior aggro is so shit fuck broke that you should not use it as a point in any sentence other than "Fix warrior aggro".

Oh right, you bought 2 of these for some reason to DW knowing that a "Lore" nerf was coming, and now you want a heads up to warn you about the nerf so you dont have to deal with ramifications of the decision that you made.

[Lucia Moonglow]

I dont know what your real point is, and dont care.

Ouch, that says a lot for your reading comprehension. My point is that the Wurmslayer won't be rendered worthless after the primary-only nerf. That was pretty clear, actually...how did you not get that?

Warrior aggro is so shit fuck broke that you should not use it as a point in any sentence other than "Fix warrior aggro".

I agree that warrior agro is broke, but welcome to classic EQ. It was broken until the Blade of Carnage in Velious, and even then wasn't truly fixed until warriors gained the Incite line of abilities during either Luclin or PoP. I think they should forego "classic authenticity" and fix it, just like I think they should remove the hybrid penalty because let's face it, it was there in classic, but it's not responsible for the "classic feel", nor is it justified. Even Verant admitted that.

Oh right, you bought 2 of these for some reason to DW knowing that a "Lore" nerf was coming, and now you want a heads up to warn you about the nerf so you dont have to deal with ramifications of the decision that you made.

Oooh, aggressive and for no reason! Nice.

Again, reading comprehension is your friend. I said it would be nice if they gave a heads up to the primary only change, but if you actually read my post, you'll see that my real concern is actually the rumors that they're going to become Lore Items because on live this never happened. Also, I didn't buy them "knowing that a "Lore" nerf was coming". Again, I fail to see where you even see that. What I said was they are rumors.

There's no need to get hostile, especially when you don't even know what you're raging about. The "Rants, Flames, and NSFW" forum is that way (http://www.project1999.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30).

[Poeshoe]

i just wanted to log on and say sethius you seem like a huge d-bag. why dont you grow up asshat. Also, i feel the wurmy would be useless after the nerf, with the exception of one or two class builds.

[Lucia Moonglow]

i just wanted to log on and say sethius you seem like a huge d-bag. why dont you grow up asshat. Also, i feel the wurmy would be useless after the nerf, with the exception of one or two class builds.

I would love to know how you think it would be useless.

No, that's not sarcasm or antagonism, I am honestly curious to know what would be better since I currently plan to use one in my main hand even after the nerf.

[greatdane]

Wurmslayer is a fairly good weapon, especially until level 45 or so when your damage bonus becomes less negligible. Really fast weapons like JM and SCD start to lose some appeal in the very endgame when 100% haste becomes realistic, because melee attacks can't go below 10 modified delay. If you're haste-capped, which is possible with the best haste item and buff, your 9/18 weapon basically becomes a 9/20 weapon. That doesn't make Wurmslayer better because it isn't a truly endgame weapon, but it's something to consider anyway. A lot of those 13/17ish NToV weapons were considered unimpressive for this reason while many of the best weapons were 15/20.

[Lucia Moonglow]

That's my point, really. The damage bonus is small, people don't see that.

The damage bonus difference between a wurmslayer and a jade mace is about 4 DPS at level 60, and at lower levels the wurmslayer is actually better.

People talk crap about the weapon mostly because it's slow, but it's one of the best buyable 1HS weapons in the game and is an awesome twink weapon for a character once they hit level 20.

Nobody's claiming that it's an endgame weapon, but to call it useless merely because it's primary only is a very uninformed statement.

[Poeshoe]

Just thinking depending on your race class, there are oodles of better ratios out there for hybrids/ Warriors (proccing weapons) etc. why would you want a weapon with a huge delay when you could have an 18/26 or a 17/30 or something similar. To each his own indeed. yea i dont know much about damage bonuses, and your right i had it pinned mainly on the delay, not the ratio or the bonus, all i know is i would probably go with a moss/lammy/noct blade/sword of the mourning

Honestly, i was just trying to learn something from this thread, and by doing that i had to tromp through a bunch of troll messages and it just pisses me off that people have to be so completely E-tarded instead of trying to be remotely helpful or informative in any way. So that was my reason for posting to be honest >.<

[Lucia Moonglow]

Just thinking depending on your race class, there are oodles of better ratios out there for hybrids/ Warriors (proccing weapons) etc. why would you want a weapon with a huge delay when you could have an 18/26 or a 17/30 or something similar. To each his own indeed. yea i dont know much about damage bonuses, and your right i had it pinned mainly on the delay, not the ratio or the bonus, all i know is i would probably go with a moss/lammy/noct blade/sword of the mourning

Honestly, i was just trying to learn something from this thread, and by doing that i had to tromp through a bunch of troll messages and it just pisses me off that people have to be so completely E-tarded instead of trying to be remotely helpful or informative in any way. So that was my reason for posting to be honest >.<

A lot of what you assume is true. 18/26 and 17/30 are both better ratios and would have more DPS anyway. The Wurmslayer's high damage output simply comes from its damage/delay ratio. Obviously a weapon with a better ratio would have better DPS. Also, a weapon with the same ratio would have more DPS if it were faster.

The general rule with one-handed weapons when determining DPS is the ratio. However, because the main hand damage bonus is the same for every weapon and because it's a flat bonus rather than percentage-based, if you have two 1H weapons with the same ratio, you should always pick the faster of the two. However, the actual benefit from the damage bonus is pretty small, so in the case of the wurmslayer you'd need a weapon with a close ratio in order to surpass its DPS. The fact is that the wurmslayer feels worse because of how slow it is. You're not getting a constant spam of damage so it feels like you're doing less DPS, but the math is pretty solid in that it's stronger than most faster weapons you can buy before you're in the high 40s or low 50s.

Two-handed weapons are different (provided the 2H damage bonus is in effect). They're actually the opposite, in that when selecting between two weapons with the same ratio you actually want the one with the lower delay because the damage bonus will be higher.

Obviously, all of these considerations are moot if you're getting a weapon with a specific proc on it such as a BoC, where the proc is more important than the DPS of the weapon itself (though a BoC does have nice DPS too).