Resists

[Atmas]

I Read through the thread on hits and misses and figured I would post some questions about resists on this server.

I have a Wiz who is currently 22 and noticed I get a lot of resists even on blue mobs. I haven't yet had the time to parse resist/full/partial resist data if anyone has any available on resists of blue/yellow/red mobs I would love to see it. I do understand that certain types of mobs will have higher base or buffed resists.

How was the resist formula for this server determined?

I remember Wizards on live got a base modifier to decrease the resist rate of their spells (I'm not talking about the mod on spells like Lures). This is also confirmed by the Wiki, but is that actually in place on this server?

Magic based spells, I know they cause additional agro. Do they also have a higher chance to be resisted?

IIRC when I played live someone told me that when it was raining certain spells where more likely to get resisted or fizzle or something. Is that true?

I've also noticed that the Tash/Malo line of spells doesn't seem to have a significant (at least from my observation) influence on spell resists.

Some of these answers I might be able to find answers to looking at the EQEmu server source code but that could easily be very different from the source code running on P99.

[Slave]

I Read through the thread on hits and misses and figured I would post some questions about resists on this server.

I have a Wiz who is currently 22 and noticed I get a lot of resists even on blue mobs. I haven't yet had the time to parse resist/full/partial resist data if anyone has any available on resists of blue/yellow/red mobs I would love to see it. I do understand that certain types of mobs will have higher base or buffed resists.

How was the resist formula for this server determined?

I remember Wizards on live got a base modifier to decrease the resist rate of their spells (I'm not talking about the mod on spells like Lures). This is also confirmed by the Wiki, but is that actually in place on this server?

Magic based spells, I know they cause additional agro. Do they also have a higher chance to be resisted?

IIRC when I played live someone told me that when it was raining certain spells where more likely to get resisted or fizzle or something. Is that true?

I've also noticed that the Tash/Malo line of spells doesn't seem to have a significant (at least from my observation) influence on spell resists.

Some of these answers I might be able to find answers to looking at the EQEmu server source code but that could easily be very different from the source code running on P99.

Tash and malo have very significant affects on mob resists... it's just that the devs have been yo-yoing the resists a lot (but wasn't that like 2 months ago?) and they have erred drastically on the high resist side. Magic based spells do not have additional aggro... I've never heard that before anyway.

[baalzy]

Magic based spells (especially for a wizard) typically have a stun-component which would lead to high agro generation.

As far as resists for wizards, I really can't say but just from reactions I've read on the boards it does seem like they're way harsh (especially at low level). I don't remember resists being super bad on my necro, but many of my spell lines have decent -resist modifiers.

[Lazortag]

resists are fine on my enchanter. If the mob is one level lower then the resists might be pretty bad, if the mob is 6 levels lower (but still blue) I almost never get resists. This is for all my spells except lull, which resists a lot, but that's classic.

[greatdane]

I Read through the thread on hits and misses and figured I would post some questions about resists on this server.

I have a Wiz who is currently 22 and noticed I get a lot of resists even on blue mobs. I haven't yet had the time to parse resist/full/partial resist data if anyone has any available on resists of blue/yellow/red mobs I would love to see it. I do understand that certain types of mobs will have higher base or buffed resists.

How was the resist formula for this server determined?

I don't know how it's determined, but resists feel slightly more common here than I remember it. It's been over a decade, though, so it's hard to say. My gut feeling is that the resist rate of mobs close to your level is about right while it's a little high on mid and low blues.

I remember Wizards on live got a base modifier to decrease the resist rate of their spells (I'm not talking about the mod on spells like Lures). This is also confirmed by the Wiki, but is that actually in place on this server?

This resist modifier is pretty small, probably too small to feel at a glance. Can't bother checking, but I believe it's -10 or -20 on wizard nukes, and I'd estimate that your average mob has something like 50-60ish in each resist, excluding mobs that are specifically resistant to something.

Magic based spells, I know they cause additional agro. Do they also have a higher chance to be resisted?

Magic-based spells don't inherently cause additional aggro, but most of them have effects that do. Any form of crowd control has high aggro, any nuke with a stun component generates brutal threat. A cleric nuke or druid dot doesn't generate any more threat than a fire-based nuke or poison-based dot that does the same amount of damage.

IIRC when I played live someone told me that when it was raining certain spells where more likely to get resisted or fizzle or something. Is that true?

I can pretty much guarantee that this is another one of those silly myths that people made up.

I've also noticed that the Tash/Malo line of spells doesn't seem to have a significant (at least from my observation) influence on spell resists.

These spells are pretty shitty until higher levels. They don't really scale with average mob resists, so a level 50 tash will make it easier to land spells on a level 50 mob than a level 20 tash does on a level 20 mob. The malo line is especially poor and usually not worth its mana cost until at least 40+.

[Estu]

I think I've noticed magic-based nukes getting resisted more. I've sometimes used fire/frost-based nukes even if they're from an earlier level (and hence less mana-efficient) because they get resisted less.

[baalzy]

mobs usually have a higher MR then they have FR/IR.

[greatdane]

I think mobs have a tendency to have higher MR than the other resists. There's no mechanic that makes magic-based spells easier to resist by default. If you're having trouble landing spells on a mob, dispelling it can be more helpful than tashing or maloing it if there's a chance it has buffs on. In dungeons, almost all mobs will be fully cleric/shaman buffed unless they've just spawned.

[aubie]

29 Shaman been killing static bards for awhile. Resists seem to get better as you outlevel the mob. RNG has a HUGE effect (i.e. I can get 3-5 resists, then zone, but come right back to the same mob and get no resists). Malo seems to have little effect if any (i.e. I can successfully land malise and then have 3-5 resist on root, disease/poison dot, and I can cast malise and get resisted, then have no resists on root, disease/poison dot). Maybe it gets better with the higher level malo's, but for now I have concluded not worth the mana.

It's kind of like the government though...I'd rather they not screw with it, because I think root holds much better here than on live (dd component of shaman dots seldom breaks it). If they look at it, I'm afraid that will get changed and the resists will stay the same. I can live with the way it is now. So move along devs, nothing to see in this thread.

[Ulivar]

feel free to correct me if i'm wrong but as a wiz i can tell you that with the staff of temp flux you can spam until you see resist strings, and cast after 1-2 resists with a very small chance of being resisted...at least thats how it seems, i don't have logs or data to back it up but i'd suggest looking into getting one asap.

I've gotten completed fed up at times when a mob easily 3-4 levels below me resists 3 or 4 casts in an attempt to kill solo, which can cause a death, it feels much harsher than what i personally remember from classic, but then I was playing a necro.

[Swish]

staff of temp(erate) flux

Wise words indeed, best way to combat the resists as a wizard that people are seeing :)

[Atmas]

Thanks for all the responses.

To clarify my earlier comment I was refering to magic spells more often having additional hate, not necessarily innately being hated more. The mobs having higher MR then other resists makes some sense. There are some wiz spells which are magic based, have no stun and yet still have additonal hate. You can check spell modification lists to see them.

I plan to work on my T flux staff in a level or two, it was definitely invaluable on my wiz on live.

Resists are definitely more frequent than I ever remember them being on my Wiz on live on blues. But my memory could be foggy after a decade.

[Messianic]

FYI, don't use force shock. If you are, that explains the problem immediately. Force shock/Thunder strike/Force Strike/etc are all-or-nothing MR based spells. Where a partial resist would occur with a normal nuke, a full resist occurs with those "interrupt" or "brief stun" kinda spells like force shock.

Magic-based nukes like Shock of Lightning, Lightning Shock, Rend, etc have a pushback component which is sometimes useful for interrupts, but they don't guarantee an interrupt like force shock/etc do, but are also harder to resist and aren't all-or-nothing.

You'll be using your level 16 nukes until 24.


Resists here seem no different to me than they were on live.

[mwatt]

First of all, as someone else has already pointed out, resists went through some changes recently. For a while, resists were decidely too high. After a period of readjustment we have reached a stage where things are acceptable. I would think twice before asking devs to do more work on this because it is apparently easy to throw it out of whack.

In comparison to live, I believe the following statements sum things up:
* In general, resists are similar, but not quite the same as they were on live.
* The levels lower than 40 seem to be harsher than those higher than 40.
* Low full blue mobs probably resist less than you would expect.
* High full blue mobs, white mobs and yellow mobs will probably resist more than you would expect.
* The RNG can definitely deal you a string of resists. This is "classic" behavior but it seems more pronounced than it was on live.
* Except for Druid roots (because of the damage component probably), roots in general seem to hold a bit better than they did on live.

[Hottbiscuits Dreadmuffin]

All this talk about resists got me thinking..

Someone told me way back when In SolA that Pacify/Lull/Calm is least likely to resist if you're the max distance away from your target mob, and out of line of sight. True or BS?

Also, is Pacify/Lull/Calm in the set of spells that works with your CHA? If so, does CHA work like other stats in that if it's below 75 there's a significant chance of failure than if it were more than 75?

[Maitresse]

Is there any chance of having resists looked at again? As a 32 druid it just seems like I'm getting way too many resists on mobs 3-4 levels below me. I'm talking chain resists on snare, roots, and flame dot.

It's kinda depressing spending 50% of your mana on resists. Anyone else experiencing this? Or am I crazy? :eek:

[Goofier]

Is there any chance of having resists looked at again? As a 32 druid it just seems like I'm getting way too many resists on mobs 3-4 levels below me. I'm talking chain resists on snare, roots, and flame dot.

It's kinda depressing spending 50% of your mana on resists. Anyone else experiencing this? Or am I crazy? :eek:

Yup, chain resists on snare killed me last night. I've been killing Slaythe in Misty Thicket lately, over and over. When he was white it was fun and challenging. Now he's dark blue, and resists have gone way up.

[Atarius]

lvl 30 necro here and I'm getting 3 to 4 resists on blues and even cons every time.

imo it's way to high; it's not out of the ordinary for me to have 5 and 6 resists on snare and fear in a row.

I also don't understand root/snare not stacking and dot damage being reduced without snare and fear etc...

[Estu]

I also don't understand root/snare not stacking and dot damage being reduced without snare and fear etc...

What is there to not understand? It's classic behavior and this is a classic server.

[Atarius]

What is there to not understand? It's classic behavior and this is a classic server.

I don't ever remember root canceling out snare. If anything it was a brief bug from classic live and it should be removed from P99 because of that.

[Messianic]

I don't ever remember root canceling out snare. If anything it was a brief bug from classic live and it should be removed from P99 because of that.

If you want to argue this in the bug forums, have at it. It's already had extensive research and patch notes/etc corroborate this.

I personally remember root overriding snare...

[Uthgaard]

First of all, as someone else has already pointed out, resists went through some changes recently. For a while, resists were decidely too high. After a period of readjustment we have reached a stage where things are acceptable. I would think twice before asking devs to do more work on this because it is apparently easy to throw it out of whack.

In comparison to live, I believe the following statements sum things up:
* In general, resists are similar, but not quite the same as they were on live.
* The levels lower than 40 seem to be harsher than those higher than 40.
* Low full blue mobs probably resist less than you would expect.
* High full blue mobs, white mobs and yellow mobs will probably resist more than you would expect.
* The RNG can definitely deal you a string of resists. This is "classic" behavior but it seems more pronounced than it was on live.
* Except for Druid roots (because of the damage component probably), roots in general seem to hold a bit better than they did on live.

This summary is exactly what I would expect out of the current resist system. It was more of a band-aid to make a bad formula tolerable. If you're having trouble with frequent resists, try mobs a level or two lower.

[Estu]

I don't ever remember root canceling out snare. If anything it was a brief bug from classic live and it should be removed from P99 because of that.

Find evidence and submit a bug report and it will be fixed. If you can't find any evidence, maybe your memory is failing you. The devs don't make changes willy-nilly or just to piss you off; they make changes for good reason. Nerfs aren't random.

[Atarius]

Fighting mobs 3 lvls lower than myself and just had two of them resist me 4 times in a row on snare and fear. Pretty awesome stuff.

[Bubbles]

Fighting mobs 3 lvls lower than myself and just had two of them resist me 4 times in a row on snare and fear. Pretty awesome stuff.

Note that Fear and Snare are really the *only* two spells you can potentially use that have a MR check. Both are horribly mana inefficient, and tbh the darkness line is probably the only spell you'll ever cast as a necro and go "wow look i had a spell resisted!".

Pet and pact tank stuff. Root/Rot stuff. It may sound crazy, but duoing with another pet class or someone who can cast snare it remarkably efficient and a much safer experience than stubbornly trying to fear kite your way to 60.

Fear / Kiting on a necro is kind of like root/nuking on an enchanter. You'll eventually meet your goals, but spamming MR-based spells to the point you have to med like a wizard after each fight, in an outdoor ZEM-free zone, is just not a recipe for success.

Bonus points if you're sitting down for long med breaks next to a druid who's b*tching to you about how much of a pain soloing is, and it never dawns on either of you to actually click 'invite' and/or 'follow'. :)

[SupaflyIRL]

Note that Fear and Snare are really the *only* two spells you can potentially use that have a MR check. Both are horribly mana inefficient, and tbh the darkness line is probably the only spell you'll ever cast as a necro and go "wow look i had a spell resisted!".

Pet and pact tank stuff. Root/Rot stuff. It may sound crazy, but duoing with another pet class or someone who can cast snare it remarkably efficient and a much safer experience than stubbornly trying to fear kite your way to 60.

Fear / Kiting on a necro is kind of like root/nuking on an enchanter. You'll eventually meet your goals, but spamming MR-based spells to the point you have to med like a wizard after each fight, in an outdoor ZEM-free zone, is just not a recipe for success.

Bonus points if you're sitting down for long med breaks next to a druid who's b*tching to you about how much of a pain soloing is, and it never dawns on either of you to actually click 'invite' and/or 'follow'. :)


If you're using dooming/invoke, resist strings should not drain your mana.

[Bubbles]

If you're using dooming/invoke, resist strings should not drain your mana.

Good catch, forgot to add that casting anything above dooming, ever, is a complete waste of time and resources hehe.

Probably the biggest problem young necros have is leaning on the crutch of fear kiting *and* soloing. And their targets are usually Spectres, hill giants, town guards, kunark mobs, etc...

Which is precisely the highest possible blue cons, the heaviest hitting mobs, and the mobs with the most hit points. The mobs that will both resist the most often and, in consequence, since they hit amazingly hard, will punish both snare and feign resists the most lethally.

[Slave]

Resists are still VERY MUCH abnormally high. It's been a real damn drag. This coupled with the new mysterious 28-damage cap from 10-20 makes leveling anything from 1-20 really freaking difficult at the moment. Which is the biggest shame, because people who are even EXPECTING a rough classic experience will come here and find it WAY TOO HARD, then go play something else.

[Stormhowl]

Resists are still VERY MUCH abnormally high. It's been a real damn drag. This coupled with the new mysterious 28-damage cap from 10-20 makes leveling anything from 1-20 really freaking difficult at the moment. Which is the biggest shame, because people who are even EXPECTING a rough classic experience will come here and find it WAY TOO HARD, then go play something else.

The 28 damage cap for 10-20 is classic from what I remember, and that was back in the day with an Axe of the Iron Back on a Warrior, during the Kunark era.

Only links I can find to support it are from 2003 and 2004, though, which I suspect will just get me flamed for sharing. >.>
http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-4580.html
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=28142

[Slave]

The 28 damage cap for 10-20 is classic from what I remember, and that was back in the day with an Axe of the Iron Back on a Warrior, during the Kunark era.

Only links I can find to support it are from 2003 and 2004, though, which I suspect will just get me flamed for sharing. >.>
http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-4580.html
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=28142

You're wrong, it was 31.

[Stormhowl]

You're wrong, it was 31.

I don't feel the need to be argumentative about a mere *THREE* damage, and since you don't feel like substantiating your point with any proof what-so-ever from any source, I'm just going to leave it at this then.

[Slave]

I don't feel the need to be argumentative about a mere *THREE* damage, and since you don't feel like substantiating your point with any proof what-so-ever from any source, I'm just going to leave it at this then.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm correcting you... with the exact number of damage that you could hit for between 10 and 20 in live Everquest. I thought you would be happy! Enjoy.

[Vladesch]

Its been a long time since I played live, so making a direct comparison isn't really possible, but I don't remember pulling my hair out as much as I do here with resists on my necro.

It just isn't worth it trying to grind high blue mobs because regularly snare/darkness will get resisted twice and result in losing pet and having to resummon (which isnt too bad) and organize 2 more weapons (which is really annoying for the level of my pet).

Much better xp overall just to grind a steady stream of very low dark blues because then it's almost impossible to get darkness resisted twice and have to screw around remaking pet.

Some spells seem to never get resisted, like the blood boil (unless its fire immune), or vampiric curse.

So yeah my money is on resists being higher than classic.

[Vladesch]

I don't ever remember root canceling out snare. If anything it was a brief bug from classic live and it should be removed from P99 because of that.

I can assure you that root and snare did not stack originally. I remember having to root-rot with my druid on unsnared mobs (pre kunark), and how nice it was when they finally patched it to make them stack.

I can also assure you that dot damage was reduced when the mob was chasing you, and my memory of it being patched out is much more hazy, but it would definitely have been later than the root/snare stack patch.

[Vladesch]

Pet and pact tank stuff. Root/Rot stuff. It may sound crazy, but duoing with another pet class or someone who can cast snare it remarkably efficient and a much safer experience than stubbornly trying to fear kite your way to 60.

Fear kiting is fine so long as you're fighting lower level dark blues and is an order of magnitude more efficient than root rotting. (I would call this pure fail for a necro)

You can *almost* kill with 0 downtime fear kiting with pet (that you give 2 weapons to).

I do agree that grouping with a druid can be very rewarding though, and lots of fun.

[Stormhowl]

I'm not arguing with you, I'm correcting you... with the exact number of damage that you could hit for between 10 and 20 in live Everquest. I thought you would be happy! Enjoy.

Except you failed to substantiate your point with any evidence what so ever. Are you somehow suggesting that Sony in all their wisdom, nerfed the damage cap from 31 to 29 sometime between Classic and 2003 (the date of the Monkly Business post I gave that says the 10-20 cap was 29 damage)?

Substantiate or concede.

[Estu]

Guys, why do the devs keep nerfing everything for no reason? This isn't how I remember it (but I can't find any evidence to the contrary)! They must hate us sooooooooooooo much!!

[Bubbles]

Fear kiting is fine so long as you're fighting lower level dark blues and is an order of magnitude more efficient than root rotting. (I would call this pure fail for a necro)

You can *almost* kill with 0 downtime fear kiting with pet (that you give 2 weapons to).

I do agree that grouping with a druid can be very rewarding though, and lots of fun.

You'll stilll be better off pet - pacting lower range dark blue cons than fear kiting them as far as downtime goes. And by default almost any fear-kiting scenario is not going to involve dungeon ZEM, which is a major consideration in 'efficency': spamming lower end blue mobs in OT isn't going to yield even remotely the same rewards as duoing with a mage/chanter/etc in mistmoore/karnors/CoM or whatever.

Guys, why do the devs keep nerfing everything for no reason? This isn't how I remember it (but I can't find any evidence to the contrary)! They must hate us sooooooooooooo much!!

lol agreed.. dear god it's a spitting image reincarnation of classic, minus the patch days with ppl screaming in the sony chat rooms at the poor guides unlucky enough to pull CSR duty during the latest patch.