I have a 21 warrior, should I make an SK instead?

[dark void2100]

Just starting to see the problems with taunt, an SK can cast one spell and be in control of the mob, whereas it's so easy for the mob to ping-pong for me depending on how cooperative the group is, I can just see it getting worse as casters get stronger.

Is it worth going on with a warrior? I don't care about raiding at all.

[Ektar]

Only you can make that decision for yourself!

but seriously, just what do you wanna play. We should sticky this one, too :P

What do you want to play? I want to play a paladin. Sure, they have their weaknesses. But I want to play a paladin. So I play a paladin.

[SupaflyIRL]

High AC hybrids are the way to go, can solo/aggro better than a warrior but have the hybrid xp penalty at a steep 40%, warriors have like a 5-10% BONUS to xp so keep that in mind.

Also no defensive stance but you're not raiding.

[dark void2100]

Only you can make that decision for yourself!

but seriously, just what do you wanna play. We should sticky this one, too :P

What do you want to play? I want to play a paladin. Sure, they have their weaknesses. But I want to play a paladin. So I play a paladin.

Yea I like warrior and one of the reasons I made one was to be a barbarian but its just starting to feel like a gimp class and I sometimes feel more of a burden to the group seeing as it's so easy to lose aggro no matter how much I spam taunt.

The xp penalty doesn't bother me cause theres no AAs in this game so no rush to reach 60!

[SupaflyIRL]

no matter how much I spam taunt.

wait what

[Sethius]

Yea I like warrior and one of the reasons I made one was to be a barbarian but its just starting to feel like a gimp class and I sometimes feel more of a burden to the group seeing as it's so easy to lose aggro no matter how much I spam taunt.

The xp penalty doesn't bother me cause theres no AAs in this game so no rush to reach 60!

Taunt is not how you build threat as a warrior, it's all about weapon procs. Go get two obsidian shards, they proc at lvl 16, and then you should be ok... some dex never hurt either. It will never be easy mode spam disease cloud, but it should be better and playing a warrior will pay off in the end.

[Messianic]

The xp penalty doesn't bother me cause theres no AAs in this game so no rush to reach 60!

I don't think you'd say that if you understood how much more slowly SK's level.

[Ostros]

Taunt is not how you build threat as a warrior, it's all about weapon procs. Go get two obsidian shards, they proc at lvl 16, and then you should be ok... some dex never hurt either. It will never be easy mode spam disease cloud, but it should be better and playing a warrior will pay off in the end.

This.

All taunt does is place you at the top of the hate list on success. It's really for pulling things off of people once they rip aggro off of you because they didn't wait a bloody second before DPSing.

Weapon procs are all warriors are about later on. Start with shards, move on to Ykesha, etc. If you're in a bind, grab two FS short/longswords (forget which). A pair of these simple weapons on a properly buffed and hasted warrior will produce more steady aggro-producing dps than some weapon combinations.*

The one advantage hybrids (and specifically SKs) have over Warriors is that warriors are better at single target aggro, but have a little trouble (pre 50's) holding multiple targets. You need to some skills to hold aggro on a double or triple pull as a warrior.




*don't quote me on this, this was some old math that I heard once from an experienced chanter on live. May or may not apply here.

[Striiker]

Hard to say what to do. You put some effort in thus far to 20, you may want to continue. I rolled a shadow knight as I like the whole background story of the class. Warriors are certainly more of a challenge to play at times but that's why you came to THIS Everquest server, because it's hard and it's pretty close to the original experience.

[Dantes]

The 20s sucked. They were hard, even with proc weapons. Do what these guys said, maximize your DEX as much as possible and wield 2 proc weapons like Obsidian Shards. That is, if you aren't already doing that.

It'll get better when you get to around level 40. Mobs start to blue out, you can taunt those. Yaks proc at 37 and they totally rock. Life gets better for a Warrior at this point. It sucks being in the 20s and low 30s. Most groups want to venture into dungeons fighting yellow or red mobs that you can't taunt, other members of the group have gimpy skills at this point too and die easily. It's rough.

If you really want to play the Warrior, it gets better. If aren't digging it, roll a hybrid. They can do more fun stuff anyway.

[greatdane]

Yeah. Play a warrior if you want to become the star of the show somewhere down the line in the distant future. When you end up being a raid's main tank, you'll know that the long and arduous journey was worthwhile. If you have no intentions of raiding, it's hard to recommend the warrior class.

[Zuranthium]

I'd rather have a Warrior in my group than an SK, more often than not. An SK doesn't do more damage or take less damage than a Warrior and they have a massive exp penalty. Aggro should really not be a problem if your group knows what they are doing.

[formallydickman]

Aggro should really not be a problem if your group knows what they are doing.

Except that aggro was his main complaint. A perfect world this is not.

[azeth]

I'd rather have a Warrior in my group than an SK, more often than not. An SK doesn't do more damage or take less damage than a Warrior and they have a massive exp penalty. Aggro should really not be a problem if your group knows what they are doing.

Sounds like you define your group classically as: Warrior Dps Dps Dps CC Heals. In that set up you're looking at damage bouncing off 3-4 people negating any ill consequence other than healer mana.

Whereas, if you're going the 3-4 group member route you might be more inclined to go for a Knight to ensure 1 member takes the punishment while the others deal it.

[Trademaster]

What is the price of obsidian shards these days? As an experiment in futility and frustration, I am making an iksar warrior and then I'm going to attempt to make it non-kos in Norrathian cities (except for Rivervale; all pecks should be served up in a nice stew)

[VincentVolaju]

Shards are dirt cheap, under 200.

As for OP, Id def. reroll SK or Pally. I tried Warrior and it was pretty fun in terms of just DPSing and being a little boss dorf critting for 100+ at lvl 20. But when it came to tanking in a group, it was COMPLETELY random. I tried going with really fast weps, thinking that aggro hitting a mob 2-3x more then what the DPS was hitting them at, would give me more aggro, but it didn't. It seemed like it based on pure dmg done to the mob, and obviously im not going to out DPS Monks w/ RFS's etc. So really I would only get aggro if I could out DPS the actual DPS class's in my group, if I couldnt out DPS them then the mob just ran all over the place bouncing between people.

So I traded those weps in, got some Shards and dex gear, 150+ dex. Thinking "Ok well, this is the way youre supposed to tank so this should be fine then" ... Nope. Every fight the Monk/Bard would pull the mob(s), and Id start whacking on them/spamming taunt, and PRAYING for a proc to go off from one of my weps. Sometimes it wouldn't proc at all during the 10-20sec fight, other times it would proc when the mob was already at like 25% life left so didnt make much of a different. It was pretty rare actually (Like 1 in every 10 mobs) that I would actually get a proc on a mob within the first few seconds of the fight and grab aggro and keep it. It was sooo completely random, and nothing you can depend on.

I would take an SK or Pally over a Warrior in an xp grind group ANY day, simply because after playing one I know how random it is to get/hold aggro on a Warrior. Granted I only played to mid 20's, maybe that would change @ level 37+ with yak weps, Ive heard they have a higher chance to proc but honestly I didnt want to wait it out to lvl 37 only to be disappointed again. If you are looking to just be a straight up tank for leveling groups, you def. want a SK / Pally / (Ranger up to lvl 50), for there snap aggro spells. If you plan on raiding @ 60 and think youll end up being 1 of the raid tanks, then go Warrior, otherwise reroll now before you waste anymore time in the class.

Unless of course youre having fun with Warrior, then by all means stick it out =)

[Shrubwise]

Play a Cleric

[Kaedain]

from my experiences with playing my cleric on live it always came down to this for me: Warriors for raid targets and SK/Pal for anything else. Sk/Pal were much better at getting the inital aggro and maintaining it throughout then a warrior, warrior was so dependant on a good weapon it was ridiculous. Come velious though if you do play a warrior, hope you can get a blade of carnage for and thatll solve all your problems :)

[Slave]

According to your needs, I think you will be very pleased once you ditch that worthless class and head into the wonderful realm of power-aggro via Paladin or SK.

[Crover_CT99]

Only you can make that decision for yourself!

but seriously, just what do you wanna play. We should sticky this one, too :P

What do you want to play? I want to play a paladin. Sure, they have their weaknesses. But I want to play a paladin. So I play a paladin.

Seriously. Everyone is over thinking it. Just play a class that is fun for you and tell the haters to feck off.

[dark void2100]

Hey all thanks for the replies, I've been thinking it over after reading replies and would much rather play an SK, I'm never going to raid enough to ever be the main tank of a raid.

Just got to motivate myself to make a new tank class! took over a month getting this far!

[Zuranthium]

Sounds like you define your group classically as: Warrior Dps Dps Dps CC Heals. In that set up you're looking at damage bouncing off 3-4 people negating any ill consequence other than healer mana.

Whereas, if you're going the 3-4 group member route you might be more inclined to go for a Knight to ensure 1 member takes the punishment while the others deal it.

I wasn't thinking of any specific setup. Exactly who is pulling aggro off the Warrior in any given situation? Have the other melee use non-proc weapons if possible, don't use debuffs right away if those spells are drawing too much aggro, don't use DD's until the target is at 50%, and USE ROOT if needed. If the people in your group who can cast root are getting resisted then you may need an SK or Pally over a Warrior, but that's about it (until you fight MOBs that summon).

[Slave]

I wasn't thinking of any specific setup. Exactly who is pulling aggro off the Warrior in any given situation? Have the other melee use non-proc weapons if possible, don't use debuffs right away if those spells are drawing too much aggro, don't use DD's until the target is at 50%, and USE ROOT if needed. If the people in your group who can cast root are getting resisted then you may need an SK or Pally over a Warrior, but that's about it (until you fight MOBs that summon).

Basically you ask the impossible. Not only do people not play this way, you're advocating lowering the effectiveness of the group simply so that you can inexplicably bring in the useless warrior who is absolutely unable to do the job that both hybrids do easily, almost innately. One might think they were designed to be that way! Go figure.

[NenshouStar]

Basically you ask the impossible. Not only do people not play this way, you're advocating lowering the effectiveness of the group simply so that you can inexplicably bring in the useless warrior who is absolutely unable to do the job that both hybrids do easily, almost innately. One might think they were designed to be that way! Go figure.

im afraid, from my experiences on this server. a warrior decently played. is far from "gimped", and as for lowering the effectiveness of the group?
i am sure anybody will agree with me when saying that the warrior is a solid team player. AND WITH THAT BEING SAID. it takes more then 1 to tango.
groups should be groups, and not a bunch of sissy players who decide to take a break from soloing only to recklessly beat at mobs with others.
not so sure about a warriors life 30-50, but almost always it is a team effort to control aggro. :cool:

[Messianic]

Ideally, other players shouldn't have to reduce their damage so the tank can keep aggro. The only unavoidable part of this is nukes - and those shouldn't occur until later in the fight anyhow, if at all (nukes are never as efficient as melee/pet damage unless you have mana sitting around with nothing to spend it on).

[ukaking]

I play an iksar warrior and have reached lvl 51 thus far. So fun! Love the rich heritage of an iksar warrior too. U went with hybrid, lol. Have fun

[azeth]

I play an iksar warrior and have reached lvl 51 thus far. So fun! Love the rich heritage of an iksar warrior too. U went with hybrid, lol. Have fun

just curious what your dex is as an Iksar warrior?

[ukaking]

Right now, 138 I think

[Radiskull]

What everyone here seems to be looking past is that every dps class has a way to manage aggro. Monk pulls aggro off the warrior? FD. Rogue pulls aggro? Evade. Ranger pulls aggro? Why are you grouping with a ranger... but even they have root! :) If someone is nuking and pulling aggro off you, or slowing, every class except mage can root anything that they pull off you, just make sure you're standing closer then everyone else, drop a taunt to put you on top of the aggro list when root breaks, and you're fine. It's not very complicated. It's as much the DPS's responsibility to mitigate aggro as it is for you to build aggro. Try high level groups where people know how to play a little better. Emphasis on a little. Talk to the people, tell the monk in your group who has a T-Staff to FD after procs. Tell the rogue to evade after a few backstabs. They should already know this, but if they don't, they're gonna have to learn sometime.

In the teens, twenties, thirties, chances are these players that are consistantly pulling aggro from warriors are twinks. If your warrior is as geared as your groups, you shouldn't have any trouble.

And to all these people saying SK over warrior any day. Warriors bring a +10% exp bonus to a group, SKs and Paladins bring a -40% exp penalty to a group. SKs and Paladins have their place in groups, but in my opinion, it's after you've asked the good warriors if they're interested first. :)

[Xadion]

SKs are born into this world as SKs - real men know and feel the calling to be a dark knight of death, fear and decay- they dont play warriors or anything else and then decide they are something else oh a sk.

Keep your crappy warrior dont pollute the SK class.







40% penalty sucks btw.

[Dantes]

And to all these people saying SK over warrior any day. Warriors bring a +10% exp bonus to a group, SKs and Paladins bring a -40% exp penalty to a group. SKs and Paladins have their place in groups, but in my opinion, it's after you've asked the good warriors if they're interested first. :)

Oh hell yeah, people hate that penalty. I was in Crypt in Sebilis, I found somebody to come replace me. A level 59 Paladin, replacing a level 54 Warrior. I figure, sweet, he's higher level AND he's better vs undead than me. The group will be excited. But still, somebody in the group asked if there was any other tanks LFG because they were concerned about the shared exp penalty.

It's a trade off. You want the better aggro management that spells offer? Go hybrid with a penalty. Don't want the penalty? Go warrior, hope he's geared well, root all the mobs and evade.

[Galanteer]

In the teens, twenties, thirties, chances are these players that are consistantly pulling aggro from warriors are twinks. If your warrior is as geared as your groups, you shouldn't have any trouble.

This likely has a lot to do with your problems.

[Duie]

im afraid, from my experiences on this server. a warrior decently played. is far from "gimped", and as for lowering the effectiveness of the group?
i am sure anybody will agree with me when saying that the warrior is a solid team player. AND WITH THAT BEING SAID. it takes more then 1 to tango.
groups should be groups, and not a bunch of sissy players who decide to take a break from soloing only to recklessly beat at mobs with others.
not so sure about a warriors life 30-50, but almost always it is a team effort to control aggro. :cool:

This.

My level 54 warrior is no tougher than the experiance of my healer. He Holds no more agro than my dps players try to avoid and he can only pull as good as my enchater can mez. If you are having trouble holding agro in a group then maybe it isnt just you. It is a team effort to ensure a warrior shines.

EDIT : root is your friend at lower levels. Always ensure you have someone that can do so in your groups

[baalzy]

Oh hell yeah, people hate that penalty. I was in Crypt in Sebilis, I found somebody to come replace me. A level 59 Paladin, replacing a level 54 Warrior. I figure, sweet, he's higher level AND he's better vs undead than me. The group will be excited. But still, somebody in the group asked if there was any other tanks LFG because they were concerned about the shared exp penalty.

It's a trade off. You want the better aggro management that spells offer? Go hybrid with a penalty. Don't want the penalty? Go warrior, hope he's geared well, root all the mobs and evade.

If you were tanking at 54 and your party was okay with it and you bring in a 59 anything, then the xp per kill for the rest of the group is going to drop by a lot because of just how much more xp that character has.

A 59 paladin is probably going to eat twice as much xp per kill as you were as a 54 warrior.

[Messianic]

If you were tanking at 54 and your party was okay with it and you bring in a 59 anything, then the xp per kill for the rest of the group is going to drop by a lot because of just how much more xp that character has.

A 59 paladin is probably going to eat twice as much xp per kill as you were as a 54 warrior.

59 is srs bznss

[Ektar]

If you were tanking at 54 and your party was okay with it and you bring in a 59 anything, then the xp per kill for the rest of the group is going to drop by a lot because of just how much more xp that character has.

A 59 paladin is probably going to eat twice as much xp per kill as you were as a 54 warrior.

shhhhh

[baalzy]

The point i was more trying to make is you should try to keep your groups closer in level. Course i don't know what lvls the rest of the group was but if you're predominately lvl 54ish then bringing in a 59 is going to nerf everyones xp rates regardless of what class it is.

[Messianic]

The point i was more trying to make is you should try to keep your groups closer in level. Course i don't know what lvls the rest of the group was but if you're predominately lvl 54ish then bringing in a 59 is going to nerf everyones xp rates regardless of what class it is.

I dunno, having a 59 tank rocks because they take a crapton less damage...but the benefit of that depends which camp you're at...

[Dravingar]

When I think of places I want to be gaining good xp, I always think of Crypt.

On a real note though, Warriors don't really have a hard time holding agro if the group members aren't retarded/Don't heavily outgear the warrior. As a rogue in PUG groups, I'm usually hiding on every CD, not just when I get agro.

[SupaflyIRL]

In the time elapsed since this was posted this guy either has a lvl 30 warrior or a lvl 8 sk.

[Duie]

Do you really care about XP that damn much? Lets see here.

Once you get 60 you can
A) raid all day everyday...err nope
B) go to new places and explore!!..err nope not for atleast another year
C) sit your bored ass in EC hoping to god something pops today so youll have something to do till you finally quit ..... WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!

[Nirgon]

When I think of places I want to be gaining good xp, I always think of Crypt.

On a real note though, Warriors don't really have a hard time holding agro if the group members aren't retarded/Don't heavily outgear the warrior. As a rogue in PUG groups, I'm usually hiding on every CD, not just when I get agro.

I'd say seb BC robe camp.