Should I Make a Human, Dark Elf or Gnome for Cleric?

[Zerdos]

Hey everyone, just wondering what all your opinions are for these 3 races for cleric. Dark elves seem cool since they have the ultravison but human inni has all those cool clickies. Gnome also seems cool since they have tinkering and wallhacks.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Hey everyone, just wondering what all your opinions are for these 3 races for cleric. Dark elves seem cool since they have the ultravison but human inni has all those cool clickies. Gnome also seems cool since they have tinkering and wallhacks.

Human Innoruuk is best if you want to solo a lot. They get some nice clickies like https://wiki.project1999.com/Terror_Forged_Mask and https://wiki.project1999.com/Regent_Symbol_of_Innoruuk for doing some fear kiting. It isn't great, but it allows you to expand which solo camps you can do, because this fear kiting works on living mobs. They also get https://wiki.project1999.com/Fright_Forged_Helm which gives you see invis, better night vision, and can act as a GCD item.

Gnomes would be best in terms of raw advantage. Wall Hacks + Tinkering is going to give you more benefit overall than Humans or Dark Elves if you are not planning on soloing a lot. Most clerics don't solo a lot, so this would probably be the best choice between the three in terms of raw advantage.

Dark Elves win on the fashion front for most players, and they do get hide, which is nice because Clerics don't get a normal invis. However, it is pretty easy to get clickie invis items in this game, so it isn't a huge benefit. Same with ultravision, it isn't difficult to get improved night vision for the other races.

[Whittaker]

I just leveled my human inny cleric to 32ish solo with a PWC, and I can tell you a few things. Moving (solo) through dungeons would be a lot easier if I was a gnome. I do have the infra/see invis hat and snare necklace. I usually only snare as a nice mana-free pull. Invis is never a problem if you get 2x ring of shadows, 200pp a piece on blue, 25pp to recharge by yourself. They also drop off a level 25 mob (with HT). Hide can be really useful, too. I don't think you can really go wrong with any of the three tbh.

[Crede]

Gnomes can also wear the dwarven cultural armor which is pretty solid:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Dwarven_Breastplate_(Enchanted_Imbued)

[Toxigen]

Gnome, 100%.

Human inni max cha is pretty aight doe.

[Zeboim]

I always found the Inni clickies overrated honestly. You really shouldn't be fighting live mobs solo, your non-Undead nukes are AWFUL.

In the end I'd always vote for Fashionquest. Most of your life as a cleric will be spent sitting there medding or (if you raid) counting between CHs. Which I suppose is a good argument for DE, since you can hide while doing it to avoid catching stray hands when somebody has a brain fart and pulls through the group.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I always found the Inni clickies overrated honestly. You really shouldn't be fighting live mobs solo, your non-Undead nukes are AWFUL.

In the end I'd always vote for Fashionquest. Most of your life as a cleric will be spent sitting there medding or (if you raid) counting between CHs. Which I suppose is a good argument for DE, since you can hide while doing it to avoid catching stray hands when somebody has a brain fart and pulls through the group.

For fear kiting live mobs you would actually melee. Like a Shaman, Clerics have access to a few decent ratio weapons like Poison Wind Censer. It's not amazing, but it's better than you would think, especially with JBoots and a good haste item. It opens up more camp possibilities like killing guards.

[Zeboim]

For fear kiting live mobs you would actually melee. Like a Shaman, Clerics have access to a few decent ratio weapons like Poison Wind Censer. It's not amazing, but it's better than you would think, especially with JBoots and a good haste item. It opens up more camp possibilities like killing guards.

I can hardly imagine a more miserable experience.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I can hardly imagine a more miserable experience.

It's really not bad. You would be surprised how well Priest classes can melee, at least 1-40ish.

[Troxx]

Make whatever you’re happiest looking at.

For cleric little else actually matters.

Been there .. done that … went DE female cleric cause I like looking at it. Min/max be damned this class is really about levels/gear/spells/clickies over anything else and none of that is really race specific.

Min/max for this class matters not for 99.99% of gameplay

[Jimjam]

Aren’t ant potions in game now, so if you’re in an area you need to be tiny gnome isn’t so important?

[Crede]

I think halfling sneak is the only real advantageous cleric racial trait. Since that wasn’t an option I’d go human inny. If you plan to mostly solo put points into CHA. Snare is nice to have and You’ll be using that deadeye clicky helm more than anything else.

[loramin]

Aren’t ant potions in game now, so if you’re in an area you need to be tiny gnome isn’t so important?

While this is true, if you're an active raider it's easy to run out of potions. Being a gnome means you never even have to think about getting shrink cast, or buying (or recharging) potions.

As a Gnome Magician I smile every time someone gets yelled at for not being shrunk, or everytime the guild reminds everyone to get shrunk ... because I don't have to do jack ;)

[Jimjam]

I think halfling sneak is the only real advantageous cleric racial trait. Since that wasn’t an option I’d go human inny. If you plan to mostly solo put points into CHA. Snare is nice to have and You’ll be using that deadeye clicky helm more than anything else.

I deleted my halfling cleric on blue to reroll dark elf. Sneak was great, but burynai robe with skull helm was just too beautiful. Mobs cruise by at 2mph to check me out (also they pass so slowly partially cos I snared them).

[Tethler]

Dark Elf, fashion is the only thing that matters.

If you're a real tryhard, I guess go gnome for the tinkering and wallhacks, but then you have to look at a metal plated potato all the time.

[DMN]

Gnomes would be best in terms of raw advantage. Wall Hacks + Tinkering is going to give you more benefit overall than Humans or Dark Elves if you are not planning on soloing a lot. Most clerics don't solo a lot, so this would probably be the best choice between the three in terms of raw advantage.


only reason to play a gnome is to be uber twink levels 1-35ish with their tinkered haste( might as well just roll and actual melee class if thats your jam), other than that they are the worst possible option.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

only reason to play a gnome is to be uber twink levels 1-35ish with their tinkered haste( might as well just roll and actual melee class if thats your jam), other than that they are the worst possible option.

Out of the three listed by OP (Human, Dark Elf, Gnome), Tinkering and seeing through walls are the most useful racials overall. Ultravision/Hide isn't giving you much, and Human Innoruuk Cleric only benefits if you want to get/use the clickies.

Good point about the tinkered arms though on Gnomes, that would help with soloing as well.

[DMN]

Out of the three listed by OP (Human, Dark Elf, Gnome), Tinkering and seeing through walls are the most useful racials overall. Ultravision/Hide isn't giving you much, and Human Innoruuk Cleric only benefits if you want to get/use the clickies.

Good point about the tinkered arms though on Gnomes, that would help with soloing as well.

beyond the gimmick i already mentioned with haste at low levels, how exactly is tinkering "useful" for a cleric? and every race can wall hack either you can get shrunk or you can simply just sit next to the wall you want to see through. viola, wall hack. Even if magically it was true that only gnomes could wall hack, it still wouldn't be one percent as useful as having snare.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

beyond the gimmick i already mentioned with haste at low levels, how exactly is tinkering "useful" for a cleric? and every race can wall hack either you can get shrunk or you can simply just sit next to the wall you want to see through. viola, wall hack. Even if magically it was true that only gnomes could wall hack, it still wouldn't be one percent as useful as having snare.

I didn't say it was game breaking. I am just saying it's more useful than Ultravision, Hide, and the Innoruuk clickies if you aren't planning on using them.

I personally agree that I would pick Human Innoruuk. I like the clickies and have a Human Innoruuk Cleric myself with the clickies. But not everybody is going to be playing a cleric in a way where they need snare, like if they just want to group up and heal.

[DMN]

Innoruuk clickies if you aren't planning on using them.


That's quite a house of cards you'e built in order to come to your dubious conclusion. I do recall your exact words comparing them "in terms of raw advantage." even if we arbitrarily , for some insanely stupid reason, ignore that snare is a hundred times better than anything gnomes provide, just their stats alone put them slightly below dark elf and massively behind humans.

[Jimjam]

beyond the gimmick i already mentioned with haste at low levels, how exactly is tinkering "useful" for a cleric? and every race can wall hack either you can get shrunk or you can simply just sit next to the wall you want to see through. viola, wall hack. Even if magically it was true that only gnomes could wall hack, it still wouldn't be one percent as useful as having snare.

I think the relative easy access of eyeballs may be a tiny tick in the plus box?

Can gnome clerics follow brell? They can get a dwarf smith to make them some good racial armor, right?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That's quite a house of cards you'e built in order to come to your dubious conclusion. I do recall your exact words comparing them "in terms of raw advantage." even if we arbitrarily , for some insanely stupid reason, ignore that snare is a hundred times better than anything gnomes provide, just their stats alone put them slightly below dark elf and massively behind humans.

The problem here is you are not taking in to account how people play, and also not reading my posts. I said Human Innoruuk Cleric is great for the clickies if you want to use them. Gnome is better if you don't want to use them. It's really that simple.

Starting stats don't really matter that much because Clerics just need to max their mana, and all races can do that pretty easily.

[DMN]

The problem here is you are not taking in to account how people play, and also not reading my posts.

No, in fact, it seems my problem may actually be that I do read your posts.


I said Human Innoruuk Cleric is great for the clickies if you want to use them. Gnome is better if you don't want to use them. It's really that simple.

The only qualifier you mentioned was solo versus group play. As far as group play you are equally wrong, as snare allows all sorts of duo/trios to become viable/good that otherwise would be a terrible .

Even in full groups having snare can save a lot of mana if another snaring class isnt around, assuming your are killing enemies that flee at low hp. And if your group needs you to lull, that abysmal gnome cha is certainly a massive drawback relative to humans, doubly so if you need to do a corpse retrieval.

I didn't get into any of this previously because i was waiting for you to explain your bizarre claims before i came to any conclusion. who knows maybe i don't now something about tinkering that changes everything, but so far thats not the case., as you failed to supply any relevant information one why tinering is even relevant let alone game changing.


Starting stats don't really matter that much because Clerics just need to max their mana, and all races can do that pretty easily.

They don't really need to "max" anything, but they would certainly like str to carry gear/loot, cha for lull, and have the mana for heals. Clerics get a lot of value out of of starting stats, like many of the other lull-blessed classes.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No, in fact, it seems my problem may actually be that I do read your posts.



The only qualifier you mentioned was solo versus group play. As far as group play you are equally wrong, as snare allows all sorts of duo/trios to become viable/good that otherwise would be a terrible .

Even in full groups having snare can save a lot of mana if another snaring class isnt around, assuming your are killing enemies that flee at low hp. And if your group needs you to lull, that abysmal gnome cha is certainly a massive drawback relative to humans, doubly so if you need to do a corpse retrieval.

I didn't get into any of this previously because i was waiting for you to explain your bizarre claims before i came to any conclusion. who knows maybe i don't now something about tinkering that changes everything, but so far thats not the case., as you failed to supply any relevant information one why tinering is even relevant let alone game changing.



They don't really need to "max" anything, but they would certainly like str to carry gear/loot, cha for lull, and have the mana for heals. Clerics get a lot of value out of of starting stats, like many of the other lull-blessed classes.

I think you are putting too much value on the snare clickie. The snare is bad, and short duration. It is serviceable in solo situations, but it still isn't amazing.

In groups snare isn't necessary most of the time, root works fine, and you wouldn't really use it over a superior snare if a group member has it.

Low CHA isn't relevant, as it is easy to get cheap CHA gear for lulling.

I never said Tinkering is a game changer. You aren't reading. If you aren't using the Innoruuk clickies, it is more useful than Ultravision and Hide, unless you have a Gnome already with Tinkering.

[DMN]

I think you are putting too much value on the snare clickie. The snare is bad, and short duration. It is serviceable in solo situations, but it still isn't amazing.

Yes, I recall your countless bad takes on snare when dealing with your unrestrained ogrephilia in regards to shaman race selection. i'll give you points for consistency at least, but sadly have to take them all back for inaccuracy. For clerics in particular having access to snare opens up many more good duo/trio options, which is quite valuable given that outside of cases involving charming classes, clerics are relatively shitty in duos/trios.


In groups snare isn't necessary most of the time, root works fine, and you wouldn't really use it over a superior snare if a group member has it.

Turns out the majority of good-snaring classes rarely tend group or/and are quite rare on p99.

Low CHA isn't relevant, as it is easy to get cheap CHA gear for lulling.

And when you put that cheap cha gear on you wil still have lower cha than a human equipping the same cheap cha gear. And there goes all AC since you are now wearing toilet paper, there goes all the mana you have permnantly lost due to removing wis/mana gear, and you there goes your shit stained undies when you get a crit lull wearing a hefty garbage bag and matching napkins.


I never said Tinkering is a game changer.

Indeed, you never said that, and thus far havent established it being useful at all, let alone game changing, despite the fact this somehow factored into your laughable cliams about the "raw ddvantage" of gnomes in grouping.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I have never seen a cleric use the snare clickie in a group, and I have multiple videos showing how it really isn't a great item on my Youtube channel. You can have your opinion that it's a great item, but it's not as good as you think. The snare has a low speed reduction, and a short duration. You will do better just medding a tick and casting root, it's only 30 mana.

Tinkering is better than clickies if you never plan on using the clickies. Something is better than nothing, unless you already have a Tinkerer.

I have a Human Innoruuk Cleric and I enjoy it immensely. I never discouraged people from doing it.

Finally, stat-wise both humans and gnomes have low starting stats. It isn't like we are looking at the difference between a Gnome Warrior and an Ogre Warrior. So it isn't a good argument to make, as the difference is easy to make up for.

[Stonewallx39]

I like the lore of the human inny clerics. However I was dissatisfied with how accepted I was everywhere! I wanted to be evil and do evil things and be feared and…. Friggen tree huggers in surefall glade we’re non-kos. Not cool devs… not cool.

That being said a rational player would consider not worrying about faction as much a benefit. It’s your journey!

[Whittaker]

I was dissatisfied with how accepted I was everywhere! I wanted to be evil and do evil things and be feared and…

Kinda fucked up that the best guards for me to kill are in Paineel. RIP my boney homies.

[Troxx]

I have the snare neck on my Troll Shaman. It has come handy numerous times even at higher end camps like fungi king in seb where a runner can mean a wipe.

It’s not the best snare. It frankly sucks with a short duration and lower percentage movement speed debuff … but it gives certain classes a whole new unique mechanic/skill that it otherwise wouldn’t have. It can, in some instances, change how you play entirely.

The snare will stop a runner from running.

Any item or racial perk that gives a class something it wouldn’t otherwise have is powerful.

Best racial skill perk? Sneak on halfling.
Best diety based? I’d argue snare neck.

Most important racial decider for a cleric? Liking what you look like.

In the end it’s all fashionquest.

[Jimjam]

Kinda fucked up that the best guards for me to kill are in Paineel. RIP my boney homies.

Think of it like ethical hacking - you are testing the defences in preparation of a real attack. The skeletons will be easily restored after they are defeated.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I have the snare neck on my Troll Shaman. It has come handy numerous times even at higher end camps like fungi king in seb where a runner can mean a wipe.

It’s not the best snare. It frankly sucks with a short duration and lower percentage movement speed debuff … but it gives certain classes a whole new unique mechanic/skill that it otherwise wouldn’t have. It can, in some instances, change how you play entirely.

The snare will stop a runner from running.

Any item or racial perk that gives a class something it wouldn’t otherwise have is powerful.

Best racial skill perk? Sneak on halfling.
Best diety based? I’d argue snare neck.

Most important racial decider for a cleric? Liking what you look like.

In the end it’s all fashionquest.

I have multiple videos on my youtube channel disproving the need for snare neck on a Shaman. Just use root when you want to stop a runner. It has a faster cast, and same chance of resist. There are very few cases where you would actually need snare to accomplish anything, and in those cases it is easy enough to get a few https://wiki.project1999.com/Ball_of_Burlap_Yarn .

It's an item that's nice to have, but I have yet to find one instance where it was necessary or gameplay changing. Sadly it just isn't good enough to actually help out in any considerable way.

As I said before, Human Innoruuk Cleric is great. I have all the clickies and enjoy it immensely. But if you don't want to get the clickies (because they aren't really necessary for anything), then Tinkering would be better if you don't already have a Tinkerer, when discussing Human vs. Gnome vs. Dark Elf.

The only thing the clickies really open up are some solo possibilities because the fear and snare work on living mobs.

[Troxx]

Look man. I have the snare neck on my shaman. I think I even chose the diety specifically with it in mind. I know its uses and its limitations (duration sucks … cast time sucks … % speed reduction sucks). There are, additionally very few places in the game I can think of off the top of my head where a runner running is truly dangerous .. but those camps do exist at both the high end and the lowerish end. For those areas you otherwise need a druid, Ranger, sk or bard. 50+ I wouldn’t even count on a warrior with snare whip because procs are so finicky.

Having said that it has saved more than one fungi group I’ve been in from a wipe. Rooting is cute but a DD (including procs) can break it. For the snare neck … once its applied it stays in place until either the mob dies or the duration expires. Nothing worse than a shroom managing to escape the exit room and have 2-4 more of its buddies come dashing in. I know that this is a whole group responsibility and shouldn’t fall on the shaman … but man it was nice not having to camp a cleric or wipe.

Do I use it often? Heck no. Does/did it get dusted off situationally .. yep.

No need to lecture me or parade around YouTube videos. Being able to snare on a shaman/cleric is cool.

[Crede]

Look man. I have the snare neck on my shaman. I think I even chose the diety specifically with it in mind. I know its uses and its limitations (duration sucks … cast time sucks … % speed reduction sucks). There are, additionally very few places in the game I can think of off the top of my head where a runner running is truly dangerous .. but those camps do exist at both the high end and the lowerish end. For those areas you otherwise need a druid, Ranger, sk or bard. 50+ I wouldn’t even count on a warrior with snare whip because procs are so finicky.

Having said that it has saved more than one fungi group I’ve been in from a wipe. Rooting is cute but a DD (including procs) can break it. For the snare neck … once its applied it stays in place until either the mob dies or the duration expires. Nothing worse than a shroom managing to escape the exit room and have 2-4 more of its buddies come dashing in. I know that this is a whole group responsibility and shouldn’t fall on the shaman … but man it was nice not having to camp a cleric or wipe.

Do I use it often? Heck no. Does/did it get dusted off situationally .. yep.

No need to lecture me or parade around YouTube videos. Being able to snare on a shaman/cleric is cool.

Search back further in the priest threads.

On your break there were some multiple like ~100 page threads when DSM released his shaman guide saying ogres were the best.

This has been heavily discussed, lol.

[Crede]

On a side note high elf clerics can cast root with the tunare necklace. It wasn't in OP's list of races but that could potentially be a huge mana saver for solo clerics. I solo'd to 53 on my cleric just root/nuking when melee fell off in the 20s

[Troxx]

Search back further in the priest threads.

On your break there were some multiple like ~100 page threads when DSM released his shaman guide saying ogres were the best.

This has been heavily discussed, lol.

I’m guessing DSM/Loramin made up 95% of those posts?

:p

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I’m guessing DSM/Loramin made up 95% of those posts?

:p

You can read the guide in my Sig. The math is clear as to which race is best, and I have videos showing how you don't really need Snare neck for anything, which is why it isn't much of an advantage to Trolls. Not really on topic for OP though.

Look man. I have the snare neck on my shaman. I think I even chose the diety specifically with it in mind. I know its uses and its limitations (duration sucks … cast time sucks … % speed reduction sucks). There are, additionally very few places in the game I can think of off the top of my head where a runner running is truly dangerous .. but those camps do exist at both the high end and the lowerish end. For those areas you otherwise need a druid, Ranger, sk or bard. 50+ I wouldn’t even count on a warrior with snare whip because procs are so finicky.

Having said that it has saved more than one fungi group I’ve been in from a wipe. Rooting is cute but a DD (including procs) can break it. For the snare neck … once its applied it stays in place until either the mob dies or the duration expires. Nothing worse than a shroom managing to escape the exit room and have 2-4 more of its buddies come dashing in. I know that this is a whole group responsibility and shouldn’t fall on the shaman … but man it was nice not having to camp a cleric or wipe.

Do I use it often? Heck no. Does/did it get dusted off situationally .. yep.

No need to lecture me or parade around YouTube videos. Being able to snare on a shaman/cleric is cool.

If you are just trying to prevent mobs from running you wouldn't DD them right afterwards, so that isn't really a concern. Not saying you can't use the neck for the purposes described, but it isn't providing any new utility you don't already have. You just prefer to use it for that purpose. That's perfectly fine, but it isn't something that will make a difference to a Shaman who doesn't have one. The snare simply doesn't last long enough to be useful in any serious scenario. It's OK for fear kiting easy stuff like guards.

Can you actually cite the camps where snare neck is needed? I can test them out to see if snare is ever actually necessary.

I never said it wasn't cool:) I like the snare neck. It simply isn't necessary for anything, so it's OK not to have it. You aren't changing your gameplay.

[Troxx]

Any camp at any level where a runaway runner can spell disaster for the group. I’m sure if you try hard enough you can think of a few.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Any camp at any level where a runaway runner can spell disaster for the group. I’m sure if you try hard enough you can think of a few.

Every camp that I have been to can handle this via root just fine. Unless you can be more specific, there is no camp where snare is the only viable or effective method to stop runners.

[Troxx]

Nobody, anywhere, ever said it is only way.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Nobody, anywhere, ever said it is only way.

Which means it isn't necessary, and I haven't even seen a camp where it was better or preferable over root. It's a nice to have item, but it isn't needed. That's simply my point. Not saying you can't use it, or have fun using it. But that doesn't make it good, or game changing.

[Danth]

...and I haven't even seen a camp where it was better or preferable over root..

You haven't done fungus king? Root is definitely not equal to snare for stopping runners there and if you're in a less than full group (hence, slower kill rate) runners can and will be the major cause of failures. It's also only one camp--albeit, a popular one.

I would not pick a cleric race just for one item. Moreso than a lot of classes, clerics have a lot of good racial choices with their own unique benefits. Arguments beyond appearance can be made, with validity, for most if not all of the different cleric races.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You haven't done fungus king? Root is definitely not equal to snare for stopping runners there and if you're in a less than full group (hence, slower kill rate) runners can and will be the major cause of failures. It's also only one camp--albeit, a popular one.

I would not pick a cleric race just for one item. Moreso than a lot of classes, clerics have a lot of good racial choices with their own unique benefits. Arguments beyond appearance can be made, with validity, for most if not all of the different cleric races.

Danth

I have done Fungi King quite a few times, and snare wasn't necessary. I usually Trioed with myself (Shaman), an Enchanter, and a Monk, which means no snare. Sometimes a Cleric too for heals/res.

I have yet to get a Fungi Tunic from King though, I have been very unlucky sadly.

The specific problem with the snare neck is the duration is just really short, so it isn't really different than a Root that chooses to break a few ticks in. Snare Neck would be amazing if it had a better snare.

[Danth]

I have yet to get a Fungi Tunic from King though, I have been very unlucky sadly.

Join the club, I never did either, lost on it easily more than a dozen times. Eventually stopped going. My experience there is you could do it without snare, but having snare is way way preferred over just root. I got numerous invites on my shadowknight solely due to snare, there. One camp is also a very small sample size and that's the only camp I've *ever* been invited to on P99 simply due to snare.

I use clinging a great deal on my shadowknight so I'm very familiar with what that spell can be used for, and what it shouldn't. I would not make a cleric or shaman just for that item, but it's a nice bonus for someone who likes the associated races anyway.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Join the club, I never did either, lost on it easily more than a dozen times. Eventually stopped going. My experience there is you could do it without snare, but having snare is way way preferred over just root. I got numerous invites on my shadowknight solely due to snare, there. One camp is also a very small sample size and that's the only camp I've *ever* been invited to on P99 simply due to snare.

Danth

Oh yeah don't get me wrong, SK's are great at Fungi King. I've Trioed with them too. I am just saying I didn't really have any serious runner problems with the Monk, because they knew what they were doing. Again, I wish Snare Neck had a better snare. Unfortunately since Clinging Darkness only lasts 36 seconds, it really isn't that much different from a Root that chooses to break a few ticks in. Having a longer snare like Engulfing Darkness is much nicer, which is what an SK would bring to the table.

[DMN]

I have never seen a cleric use the snare clickie in a group, and I have multiple videos showing how it really isn't a great item on my Youtube channel. You can have your opinion that it's a great item, but it's not as good as you think. The snare has a low speed reduction, and a short duration. You will do better just medding a tick and casting root, it's only 30 mana.


Not once seeing ogre stun immunity EVER do anything to help never stop you from singing its praise it like it's ambrosia. I hope you are not so ignorant of basics of the game to understand that snaring a mob at low life can save a healer around 20% mana and in grouing situations cleric's mana is often the groups main bottleneck, which could translate directly to 20% faster kill/loot/exp efficiency. Sounds pretty good to me.


Finally, stat-wise both humans and gnomes have low starting stats. It isn't like we are looking at the difference between a Gnome Warrior and an Ogre Warrior. So it isn't a good argument to make, as the difference is easy to make up for.

Not really a particularly good comprision given that cleric gear rarely has charisma or str on it while warrior gear is overflowing with str/stam. And a warrior isnt taking off all their stam gear off to boost a different part of their kit, such in the case lulling. I have looked at the bumbers but im sure its in the 50-60 points of relevant stats you ose out on versus humans. Thats a lot of fucing stats from my reckoning, but you do you. Enjoy the tinkering.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Not once seeing ogre stun immunity EVER do anything to help never stop you from singing its praise it like it's ambrosia. I hope you are not so ignorant of basics of the game to understand that snaring a mob at low life can save a healer around 20% mana and in grouing situations cleric's mana is often the groups main bottleneck, which could translate directly to 20% faster kill/loot/exp efficiency. Sounds pretty good to me.


I have videos showing FSI working. It isn't my fault you don't watch them hehe. I have ho idea where you are getting this 20% mana stat from. Root costs 30 mana, and snare neck takes 6 seconds to cast. That 6 second cast is wasting the 20 mana you could have medded, which is most of the cost of a root. Your group has bigger efficiency problems if your Cleric is the primary CC in the group.


Not really a particularly good comprision given that cleric gear rarely has charisma or str on it while warrior gear is overflowing with str/stam. And a warrior isnt taking off all their stam gear off to boost a different part of their kit, such in the case lulling. I have looked at the bumbers but im sure its in the 50-60 points of relevant stats you ose out on versus humans. Thats a lot of fucing stats from my reckoning, but you do you. Enjoy the tinkering.

It's very easy to get STR and CHA gear if you are having problems with either. The difference is 15 less CHA and 15 less STR between Gnome and Human Clerics. This really isn't a difficult gap to fill.

[Troxx]

Snare click in the few circumstances I was using it saved me 100 mana per cast attempt. I don’t F around with plain ol’ root anymore. 3 minute root is the only one worthy of a spot on my cast bar.

To each their own. Snare is situationally a very … VERY nice thing to have in your toolkit on a class that can’t otherwise cast it.

Beyond that, everyone knows trolls are the superior shaman race. We get a fine ass long nose to compliment our booty swag. The built in fungi tunic regen ain’t half bad either.

[DMN]

I have videos showing FSI working. It isn't my fault you don't watch them hehe. I have ho idea where you are getting this 20% mana stat from. Root costs 30 mana, and snare neck takes 6 seconds to cast. That 6 second cast is wasting the 20 mana you could have medded, which is most of the cost of a root. Your group has bigger efficiency problems if your Cleric is the primary CC in the group.



So you REAlLY are this igorant of the basics of EQ? snared mobs at low health don't fight back at all. Hello? EQ basics 101?


It's very easy to get STR and CHA gear if you are having problems with either. The difference is 15 less CHA and 15 less STR between Gnome and Human Clerics. This really isn't a difficult gap to fill.

15 str
5 sta
8 wis
15 cha

thats about 1.5 additional BIS items for non raiding cleric.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So you REAlLY are this igorant of the basics of EQ? snared mobs at low health don't fight back at all. Hello? EQ basics 101?


Of course I know that. The problem is for some reason you think:

A) The snare clickie is good for this kind of thing, even though the snare and cast time is really bad.
B) We are talking about Clerics having the snare neck, so you are assuming the Cleric is the one doing the CCing for the group. And you are talking about efficiency at the same time? You do know a Cleric will not be medding while they are doing all this CCing? So all the mana you are "saving" on not healing is instead going into the Cleric CCing and not medding lol.


15 str
5 sta
18 wis
15 cha

thats close to 2 additional BIS items for non raiding cleric.

It's still not worth caring about. Sorry.

[Troxx]

Glad we can agree starting stats are irrelevant.

Most important = what you look like
Close second = racial sneak
Close third = snare is cool

We’re talking clerics here. All they need is their epic, decent gear, and some charisma toolkit to get 99.99% of the job done. Nothing else really matters.

[DMN]

Of course I know that. The problem is for some reason you think:

A) The snare clickie is good for this kind of thing, even though the snare and cast time is really bad.
B) We are talking about Clerics having the snare neck, so you are assuming the Cleric is the one doing the CCing for the group. And you are talking about efficiency at the same time? You do know a Cleric will not be medding while they are doing all this CCing, so you waste mana that way.

its one tick of meditations to what amounts to a ~36 second stun. if you cant see the value in that, there is no helping you.


It's still not worth caring about. Sorry.


Muh tinkering.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

its one tick of meditations to what amounts to a ~36 second stun. if you cant see the value in that, there is no helping you.


If your group is taking 36 seconds to kill a mob at 20%, and your Cleric is CCing, your group is just bad lol. Sorry, no mana being saved there.

[DMN]

If your group is taking 36 seconds to kill a mob at 20%, and your Cleric is CCing, your group is just bad lol. Sorry, no mana being saved there.

if the group is killing so fast why th fuck are you complaing about the snare duration, clown shoes?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

if the group is killing so fast why th fuck are you complaing about the snare duration, clown shoes?

Exactly. Now you know why your argument is silly.

[DMN]

Exactly. Now you know why your argument is silly.

What? dude, YOu were the one complaining about the duration and the effect. if you have such good dps going, it will quickly go into derp mode an stop moving entirely and the short-ish duration shouldnt be an issue. both your issues with it are completely obviated. Hello? Do you follow your own arguments?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

What? dude, YOu were the one complaining about the duration and the effect. if you have such good dps going, it will quickly go into derp mode an stop moving entirely and the short-ish duration shouldnt be an issue. both your issues with it are completely obviated. Hello? Do you follow your own arguments?

No, you don't follow your own. If you are killing the mob fast enough, you don't even need to snare it. The snare clickie alone costs 6 seconds to cast.

Way to ruin your own argument:)

[DMN]

No, you don't follow your own. If you are killing the mob fast enough, you don't even need to snare it. The snare clickie alone costs 6 seconds to cast.

Way to ruin your own argument:)

20% is 20%. learn2math, bro.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

20% is 20%. learn2math, bro.

Lol you are just so silly.

If the mob is running at 20%, they aren't attacking the group anyway. I am not sure which camp you are thinking of where a mob runs, the group can't kill it quickly, and it runs into other mobs without the group knowing about it.

[Jimjam]

The camps deep in chardok can be pretty bad for that.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The camps deep in chardok can be pretty bad for that.

In Chardok Mobs don't really run, so it doesn't matter.

[DMN]

So we went from. Dewd just uz root instad! to D00d just let mobs run!

Classic DSM when hes losing his ass in an argument. cant win with facts go with reptition and idiocy. anyways im not getting sucked into one of your posting black holes.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So we went from. Dewd just uz root instad! to D00d just let mobs run!

Classic DSM when hes losing his ass in a argument.

You are the one who lost the argument, by your own words. You are just being a sore loser hehe.

Please name the camps where your magical scenario happens, where your group is so bad it is having the Cleric CC because they just can't kill a mob at 20% in camp.

[Kirdan]

Is this a shaman thread now?

I love human Inny (my cleric is this), but I think gnome is ultimately the best min/max option among your three choices. Whether that is what you want, OP, depends a lot on how you play. Human Inny has great starting stats, utility clicks, and general faction around the world. Gnome has bad starting stats, but being max shrunk at all times is great for more than just wallvision.

There are spots in both group and raid level play where being a gnome allows you to do something important that no other race can do: log in while being max shrunk after camping out in a tough spot. If you are adept at finding a good spot to camp, you can save your group or raid in spots where even a halfling may not be able to log in safely due to being in line of sight of nearby mobs. This is handy for all gnome classes, but particularly for clerics due to the ability to rez and recover their friends.

I wouldn't pick dark elf from your three choices unless I really liked their fashion. It's ok, but I definitely prefer human fashion.

[DMN]

You are the one who lost the argument, by your own words. You are just being a sore loser hehe.


Dude you lost before any argument started. enjoy your probes, though.


Gnomes would be best in terms of raw advantage. Wall Hacks + Tinkering is going to give you more benefit overall than Humans or Dark Elves if you are not planning on soloing a lot. Most clerics don't solo a lot, so this would probably be the best choice between the three in terms of raw advantage[.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Dude you lost before any argument started. enjoy your probes, though.

Lol such a sore loser.

[DMN]

Is this a shaman thread now?

I love human Inny (my cleric is this), but I think gnome is ultimately the best min/max option among your three choices. Whether that is what you want, OP, depends a lot on how you play. Human Inny has great starting stats, utility clicks, and general faction around the world. Gnome has bad starting stats, but being max shrunk at all times is great for more than just wallvision.

There are spots in both group and raid level play where being a gnome allows you to do something important that no other race can do: log in while being max shrunk after camping out in a tough spot. If you are adept at finding a good spot to camp, you can save your group or raid in spots where even a halfling may not be able to log in safely due to being in line of sight of nearby mobs. This is handy for all gnome classes, but particularly for clerics due to the ability to rez and recover their friends.

I wouldn't pick dark elf from your three choices unless I really liked their fashion. It's ok, but I definitely prefer human fashion.


First off anyone can just buy ant potions. Second off, if you log out/in, you will still remain in the exact same posotion you were when you logged out and should not incur any aggro you would not have got when you were in your shrunken state. You may however be partially stuck in the wall which can be an annnyance but ist an issue.

[Troxx]

So we went from. Dewd just uz root instad! to D00d just let mobs run!

Classic DSM when hes losing his ass in an argument. cant win with facts go with reptition and idiocy. anyways im not getting sucked into one of your posting black holes.

Quoted for emphasis

[Kirdan]

First off anyone can just buy ant potions. Second off, if you log out/in, you will still remain in the exact same posotion you were when you logged out and should not incur any aggro you would not have got when you were in your shrunken state. You may however be partially stuck in the wall which can be an annnyance but ist an issue.

Ant potions have nothing to do with it since I am talking about logging in shrunk. Logging in larger than you were in the position you occupied while shrunk can cause your model to be moved out of that position, and into line of sight of nearby mobs.

[DMN]

Ant potions have nothing to do with it since I am talking about logging in shrunk. Logging in larger than you were in the position you occupied while shrunk can cause your model to be moved out of that position, and into line of sight of nearby mobs.

Lets assume it is the case how exactly are you saving the raid, then? you can't rez them where they died. You cant summon corpse to rez since non-gnomes will get aggro. Do you corpse summon/rez an elite crew of gnomes who are gonna clear the mobs you apparetly already wiped to?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sorry, But DMN and Troxx are just wrong. I have video evidence proving how ineffective the snare neck is. They have vague anecdotes of clerics needing to CC mobs that a group can't kill at 20% health. Somehow that Cleric is also saving mana by CCing all the time instead of medding.

[Kirdan]

Lets assume it is the case how exactly are you saving the raid, then? you can't rez them where they died. You cant summon corpse to rez since non-gnomes will get aggro. Do you corpse summon/rez an elite crew of gnomes who are gonna clear the mobs you apparetly already wiped to?

When you are in the same zone you can get shrunk before taking a rez and the shrink will persist through accepting the rez.

[DMN]

seems like a quite a story. Your raid wipes, and not surpisningly since your raid wiped in the first place it also violated the long held primary golden raiding rule which is to have a safe camp area to logout/regroup/pulll corpses, then there is a magical gnome only hiding spot, and the raiders somehow easily return to the raid zone but not to their actual corpses.

it's a fun story!

[Vexenu]

Snare neck is incredibly useful if you're duoing with an Ench/Mage/Monk/War. Increases your mana efficiency and safety noticeably.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Snare neck is incredibly useful if you're duoing with an Ench/Mage/Monk/War. Increases your mana efficiency and safety noticeably.

Do you have any evidence to back this up? I have videos showing the inefficacy of the snare neck. Root only costs 30 mana, and with a 6 second cast time on snare neck you are losing a med tick most likely, which is 20+ mana at level 60.

You need to show an actual need to snare the mob instead of just letting it run (i.e. a tight camp) so other people can test it. Preference does not mean it's actually saving mana or increasing safety.

[Ripqozko]

DSM is basically UCF with a guild tag still

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM is basically UCF with a guild tag still

Please leave the nonsense in RnF. Saying random stuff doesn't mean anything:D

I know you are trying to be funny (or whatever that is), but it's just sad. None of your poor attempts have worked so far. Most people won't get the reference, and it isn't even true lol.

I'll try your "humor". Ripqozko is basically *random user* without a guild tag. So funny /sarcasm.

[Danth]

Folks who keep wanting to take their dumb memes and inane "humor" and other content-less posts out of RNF do get tiresome. Would prefer they keep it where it belongs.

------------------------------------------

Guk's an obvious place where you get a lot of flee'ers and where a snare can save some healing vs. using root in a low-damage duo. I wouldn't call it strictly necessary but I don't think anyone is, just nice to have. I still don't call the snare click nice enough to pick a race solely because of it, but if you play one of those races of course you'll get it and use it when appropriate.

Danth

[Jimjam]

Root sucks for fleeing cleric giants. Was doing KT gatehouse today and we wiped because we had to root instead of snare.

That said, we were able to reorganise our positioning strategy so that we were able to do without snare. A bit more mental load and organisation (which is a tick in the innoruuk box), but yeah it can be planned around (a tick in the outtoruuk box).

[Vexenu]

Do you have any evidence to back this up? I have videos showing the inefficacy of the snare neck. Root only costs 30 mana, and with a 6 second cast time on snare neck you are losing a med tick most likely, which is 20+ mana at level 60.

You need to show an actual need to snare the mob instead of just letting it run (i.e. a tight camp) so other people can test it. Preference does not mean it's actually saving mana or increasing safety.

You don't seem to appreciate the major benefit of snare over root, especially when you're duoing, which means that mobs don't die super quickly and mana efficiency is more important. If you root a mob, your duo partner must tank the last 20% of the mob's HP, which costs you extra mana for heals. If you don't root the mob, your duo partner is chasing the mob around as they flee, which can be very bad in certain locations. Or you can click your snare neck, and your duo partner faces neither of these concerns. It's a major convenience.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You don't seem to appreciate the major benefit of snare over root, especially when you're duoing, which means that mobs don't die super quickly and mana efficiency is more important. If you root a mob, your duo partner must tank the last 20% of the mob's HP, which costs you extra mana for heals. If you don't root the mob, your duo partner is chasing the mob around as they flee, which can be very bad in certain locations. Or you can click your snare neck, and your duo partner faces neither of these concerns. It's a major convenience.

That is not the problem. Snares are great. The problem is Snare Neck specifically is using Clinging Darkness. It has a 36 second duration, the clickie has a 6 second cast, and the snare is bad. It really isn't much different from a root at that point. Even a root that breaks fairly early is going to last a few ticks in most cases.

You can't even snare, camp out, and come back in due to how short it is. You are probably wasting more mana trying to spam the snare clickie (instead of just medding) as opposed to simply killing the mob and only rooting it when necessary.

Snare Neck would be much better if it had a better snare. Sadly it does not, so it's not really useful in most situations over root. I would love to see some videos/data that proves otherwise. From my testing so far I haven't found any useful situations for it.

[Vexenu]

Dude, you're being willfully obtuse. It doesn't matter that it's a bad snare. It matters that it's a SNARE that is castable by Clerics and Shaman, who don't normally have access to the spell at all. Of course you don't have the same sort of tricks available with it that you do with a 6 minute Druid snare, but that doesn't mean it's useless. You just cast it when the mob is about to die to prevent it from running. That's it. It works perfectly fine for that purpose. I have a lot of experience using the item. I boxed a Mage/Cleric duo with it on TAKP and used it extensively while leveling. Six seconds is a perfectly manageable cast time, and you're much better off from an efficiency perspective losing one tick of med time in exchange for the benefit of landing a snare on a fleeing mob.

This is literally not even up for debate. This is just you being in denial.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Dude, you're being willfully obtuse. It doesn't matter that it's a bad snare. It matters that it's a SNARE that is castable by Clerics and Shaman, who don't normally have access to the spell at all. Of course you don't have the same sort of tricks available with it that you do with a 6 minute Druid snare, but that doesn't mean it's useless. You just cast it when the mob is about to die to prevent it from running. That's it. It works perfectly fine for that purpose. I have a lot of experience using the item. I boxed a Mage/Cleric duo with it on TAKP and used it extensively while leveling. Six seconds is a perfectly manageable cast time, and you're much better off from an efficiency perspective losing one tick of med time in exchange for the benefit of landing a snare on a fleeing mob.

This is literally not even up for debate. This is just you being in denial.

I am not. You are simply overestimating the value of snare neck because you like it. Give me an example of a camp where you think it is needed. I'll test it and make a video showing you probably don't need it:)

[Jimjam]

Just because it isn't needed doesn’t mean it isn’t useful. Thats a false dichotomy that has already been addressed.

[Vexenu]

I never said you "need" it. Any more than a Warrior needs an Incarnadine BP or a Monk needs Elder Beads or a Wizard needs a Rend Robe. I said that it's a great item in terms of efficiency. There is no drawback to having access to one, and plenty of opportunities to make use of it, primarily when duoing. As I said, I got a ton of use out of it with a Mage/Cleric duo leveling on TAKP.

Easy example of how it's useful: farming ice giants in Everfrost. They have a lot of HP, so having your pet melee one down the final 20% of its health while it flees can take awhile. It might also path into the spawn of the other giant, which is annoying and possibly fatal if you're not paying close attention. You're also loaded down with excessive weight from Fine steel and gold/plat, so you don't want to be running halfway across the zone to loot a corpse.

All of this was easily avoided by casting the snare neck, allowing the pet to finish off the final 20% off the giant's health while it didn't run anywhere.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If you don't need it, then alternate strategies work just as well. So it's a preference thing, rather than something that is granting you new possibilities. That is my point. I have no problem if you prefer using snare neck. That doesn't mean it is superior, saves mana, etc.

Ice Giants are not difficult at all, you do not need snare neck to do that camp efficiently.

[Jimjam]

If you don't need it, then alternate strategies work just as well. So it's a preference thing, rather than something that is granting you new possibilities. That is my point. I have no problem if you prefer using snare neck. That doesn't mean it is superior, saves mana, etc.

Ice Giants are not difficult at all, you do not need snare neck to do that camp efficiently.
I don't think you can dismiss a camp just because it's easy. That's just trying to talk down the point.

Besides which, alternate strategies won't work just as well. Very annoying having to deal with gate/cheal because instead of snaring it you rooted it or fought it close to an ally. Especially against unstunnable clerics. Often you'll need to clear more incidental mobs to make your fight area safe too if not using snare.

I gave a real example where we would have been better off with snare (fighting giant clerics or huge hp mobs at King Tormax's house).

[Vexenu]

If you don't understand how missing one med tick is superior mana efficiency to having to cast the extra pet summon or heal to tank an additional 20% of an Ice Giant's health bar, I don't know what to tell you.

[Jimjam]

Snare is really good for removing SoW from NPCs in dungeons too. SoWed runners are a death sentence. Sure you can try rooting them, but that won't strip sow and if root breaks ... WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE they're gone.

Also p99 very non classic, sowed runners don't flee fast enough at low hp.

[Danth]

I agree that "need" is the wrong baseline for this discussion since none of the cleric racial bonuses are necessary by definition--all clerics can perform their jobs. I also agree that snare is a nice quality of life item to have on occasion. Sure you can live without it. So what? There are many things I can live without in-game but which are nice to have. What are you going to take in its place? Clerics can live without tinkering, they can live without sneak, they can live without paineel quest items....it's all icing and all of it has relative value for various purposes.

Nobody who has a melee wants to be chasing full-speed runners to finish them off, not with P99's ever-crabby hitboxes. That's a miserable life. Hence why the snare neck sees much discussion for use in a cleric-based duo with a melee player when they don't otherwise have snare. It also opens up limited fear-kiting for such a duo. While not strictly necessary--the wife and I used to duo lower guk with our paladin/cleric duo w/o a snare, and we managed--it does open up nice quality of life and some additional options. Maybe it's not godly, but it's not junk, either, at least not to that specific sub-set of players who like to operate in that type of duo.

----------------------------------------------------

Shamwowi, how often do you use Clinging on your shadowknight? I use it frequently on mine. Cascading is the one I seldom use due to the immense mana cost. Otherwise clinging, engulfing, and dooming all see fairly regular use. It isn't uncommon that I might have two of them on the spellbar at once.

Danth

[Danth]

Also p99 very non classic, sowed runners don't flee fast enough at low hp.

I didn't want to bring up how gimped and generally less threatening runners are on P99, and always have been, because that's something of a different discussion. We can only play the game that's before us, perfect emulation or not, and it's best to make recommendations for the game which exists rather than for changes that may or may not ever be implemented.

If you don't understand how missing one med tick is superior mana efficiency to having to cast the extra pet summon or heal to tank an additional 20% of an Ice Giant's health bar, I don't know what to tell you.

I assume that's the cleric summon pet?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I agree that "need" is the wrong baseline for this discussion since none of the cleric racial bonuses are necessary by definition--all clerics can perform their jobs. I also agree that snare is a nice quality of life item to have on occasion. Sure you can live without it. So what? There are many things I can live without in-game but which are nice to have. What are you going to take in its place? Clerics can live without tinkering, they can live without sneak, they can live without paineel quest items....it's all icing and all of it has relative value for various purposes.

Nobody who has a melee wants to be chasing full-speed runners to finish them off, not with P99's ever-crabby hitboxes. That's a miserable life. Hence why the snare neck sees much discussion for use in a cleric-based duo with a melee player when they don't otherwise have snare. It also opens up limited fear-kiting for such a duo. While not strictly necessary--the wife and I used to duo lower guk with our paladin/cleric duo w/o a snare, and we managed--it does open up nice quality of life and some additional options. Maybe it's not godly, but it's not junk, either, at least not to that specific sub-set of players who like to operate in that type of duo.

----------------------------------------------------

Shamwowi, how often do you use Clinging on your shadowknight? I use it frequently on mine. Cascading is the one I seldom use due to the immense mana cost. Otherwise clinging, engulfing, and dooming all see fairly regular use. It isn't uncommon that I might have two of them on the spellbar at once.

Danth

That has been my whole argument, you don't need it, so I wouldn't pick a race just for it. Snare Neck isn't necessary, and I would need to see data to believe it is consistently saving a Cleric mana on runners. In most cases you can deal with them just fine, and you may not even need to root the mob. It's generally a strategy issue, not a lack of snare issue.

You did bring up Dragon Necropolis in another discussion when referring to fighting Gating mobs that you cannot easily fight on their spawn point. I will test that out at some point to see if Snare Neck would be worth it there, or if you could indeed just find their spawn points.

Again, I do have the snare neck on my Cleric. I enjoy using it when soloing, as I can fear kite living mobs with it to some degree. But honestly the snare is so bad I have been wishing for JBoots to keep up with the mob while it is running at over 50% health hehe. I don't play that toon enough to justify the Jboots.

I never use Clinging Darkness on my SK. It's just too bad for effective use. Besides, with Blood Ember Gauntlets you get Engulfing Darkness for free. I use Dooming Darkness when the runway is tight and I need as little movement as possible, otherwise I click my Blood Ember Gauntlets.

[Vexenu]

I assume that's the cleric summon pet?

No, I was making reference to my previous example when I used the snare neck heavily while boxing a Mage/Cleric duo on TAKP, specifically fighting Ice Giants in Everfrost.

DSM dismissed this as an easy camp that didn't require snare, which is true if you're simply farming them as an Epic Shaman or a 50+ Mage/Necro. But in my case I was leveling on the giants with a 44 Mage pet, which leaves much less room for error and requires Cleric heals to sustain. Forcing the pet to tank the extra 20% of each giant's health bar would have required an additional heal or pet summon for each kill, and letting the giant flee without snare would have risked it pathing into the other giant spawn, or running out of the castle entirely, and then I have to go chase down the corpse while I'm already substantially overweight from Fine steel loot and gold/plat.

It's just an example where the snare neck proved extremely useful and convenient.

[Danth]

That has been my whole argument, you don't need it, so I wouldn't pick a race just for it.

I wouldn't either, as said above, so we've been in agreement on that point all along.

You did bring up Dragon Necropolis in another discussion when referring to fighting Gating mobs that you cannot easily fight on their spawn point. I will test that out at some point to see if Snare Neck would be worth it there, or if you could indeed just find their spawn points..

"Finding" the spawn points there is easy. I can draw you a picture if you like (actually I did, Loramin posted it to the wiki I think). Fighting AT spawn, not so much, not in a low-damage duo at least. Have a good time there, it's a fun area that not a lot of people utilize. I like seeing folks go off the beaten path. I do suggest parking out a cleric nearby.


I never use Clinging Darkness on my SK. It's just too bad for effective use. Besides, with Blood Ember Gauntlets you get Engulfing Darkness for free. I use Dooming Darkness when the runway is tight and I need as little movement as possible, otherwise I click my Blood Ember Gauntlets.

Hah, more than one way to skin a cat in EQ. Clinging's hate-generation usage aside, I (and other people) use it far too often to call it too bad to be effective as a snare. It's not wholly effective, to be sure (can't split with it), but it's good enough for a lot of the anti-flee'er jobs snare gets used for. I don't like swapping on the click gloves so I tend to use clinging when it suffices, which it usually does if stuff is dying within thirty seconds. Against something like west waste dragons that live awhile I'll use a longer-lasting snare for obvious reasons, right tool for the right job.


No, I was making reference to my previous example when I used the snare neck heavily while boxing a Mage/Cleric duo on TAKP, specifically fighting Ice Giants in Everfrost.

Thanks for clearing that up. That neck probably has more relative value for a cleric-based duo than a shaman-based duo. Slow means rooting and absorbing more melee time is no big deal for the shaman.

Danth

[Vexenu]

Thanks for clearing that up. That neck probably has more relative value for a cleric-based duo than a shaman-based duo. Slow means rooting and absorbing more melee time is no big deal for the shaman.


I agree with you, especially 50+ when Shaman slow really ramps up.

The snare neck primarily shines on a Cleric duoing with a Mage, Enchanter or melee. A Shaman leveling up with a Monk duo partner would also get benefit out of it, but mostly just pre-level 50.

But even many Clerics won't have much use for the snare neck. If you're root/nuke soloing, XPing in full groups or raiding, you'll almost never miss the thing. But in certain niche applications (mostly when leveling as a duo, or in certain camps as highlighted in this thread) it can really be quite useful.

[Crede]

Monk/cleric is kinda the new meta these days. Having snare is a nice addition to this. I wouldn’t pass up snare neck if I had the choice, despite whether or not it’s needed.

[ithaqua]

Snare is amazing in a mnk/shm duo wherever you fight sow’ed fleeing mobs. Sure, the importance drops off rapidly if you outgear the content since you just dps them down or just handle eventual adds via rootparking or just slowtank them.
But IF you take on a camp where an add(s) means wipe it’s super useful. Root can of course help but doesn’t overwrite sow, breaks randomly and can be tricky to reapply in a twisty dungeon.
Specific examples ssra basement for the dusty soriz pouch... here on p99? Anywhere with densely packed mobs with pesky shamans, velks/sig maybe, Sebilis definetly? Had a 10 years break so someone else can probably fill in specific camps.
And yes, of course there’s several ways to handle such situations, monk with nerfbat, liberal use of dispel, social root etc.
But the inny neck adds a new possible way to handle runners that non-Innoruuk worshippers doesn’t have access to