New Green

[mgb64029]

Not sure when the new Green server will drop. I was wondering when it does, I hear all your characters will transfer to Blue. What happens if you have 8 characters on each server?

[Fammaden]

You would have to delete characters to get the 9th+ to show up, unless they were to come up with a new solution allowing you to scroll through or something.

The right move was to have a different account for green though.

[Videri]

Not sure when the new Green server will drop. I was wondering when it does

The staff have not announced when yet. They have actually not confirmed they even will create a next server, not recently, not as far as I know. I believe they will, though, since a series of servers progressing from Classic to Kunark to Velious was the original goal of Project 1999.

[Videri]

This topic gets posted a lot. Do people ever search the forums before asking the question?

And don't you think there would be an announcement of it in the Announcements forum?

It's not going to be some big secret.

[Fammaden]

Wow, very toxic, Potatus the new Detoxx. Castle gets a couple Vulak loots and look what they turn into!

[Cen]

Season 2 hasn't been announced but it won't start until after at least end of January 2023 according to the Season 1 launch announcement

[Absynthe2k5]

This topic gets posted a lot. Do people ever search the forums before asking the question?

And don't you think there would be an announcement of it in the Announcements forum?

It's not going to be some big secret.

Just started a day or two after many years break and this would be about the first forum I have been on in a decade, I wouldn't even know where to begin there is so much info to sift through on here let alone think to use a search function lol. Thanks for the heads up!

[Videri]

Wow, very toxic, Potatus the new Detoxx. Castle gets a couple Vulak loots and look what they turn into!

:mad:

I have the patience of a saint, but even I am allowed to criticize people's actions, including posts.

[Videri]

Season 2 hasn't been announced but it won't start until after at least end of January 2023 according to the Season 1 launch announcement

Let's please keep calling them Seasons. It makes clear the intention of P99.

I've seen a few posters express concern that their characters will be wiped, which is never true on P99; they would simply be moved to the Valhalla server (probably Blue but possibly Green), where we can play them forever.

[Bardp1999]

I think daybreak told Rodawg he can't make any more new servers after Green launched, that's why the Discord server got shit-boxed and that's why there is an eery silence about the matter. Daybreak got bought out though, so maybe there is a chance. Either way, you got another 6 months minimum.

[Warsears]

I think daybreak told Rodawg he can't make any more new servers after Green launched, that's why the Discord server got shit-boxed and that's why there is an eery silence about the matter. Daybreak got bought out though, so maybe there is a chance. Either way, you got another 6 months minimum.

You are saying it will be 6 months until a new green “season/server”? Is there a mailing list we can get on that will give an update?

[cd288]

Wow, very toxic, Potatus the new Detoxx. Castle gets a couple Vulak loots and look what they turn into!

Dude is fine with his guildies afk camping with pets and two boxing too if the video that was posted years ago is correct

[Jimjam]

You would have to delete characters to get the 9th+ to show up, unless they were to come up with a new solution allowing you to scroll through or something.

The right move was to have a different account for green though.

On live you could (can?) scroll through excess characters with the up and down arrows on the keyboard. Common issue for the Zek server and various other merges.

[magnetaress]

It's time for ya'll to make an actually real classic new box

Call it the Vision Box TM and fix/add the things that aren't here on P99 and should have been in classic and keep the power leves below +25 items make agility matter more than AC again, fix run speed with agility and encumberance. Fix channeling. Fix charm resists. Fix it all so it's hard to level again. And unnerf wizards.

Also fix quest exp so it's normal/fast and nerf all over exp. Bring back Bone Chips, Belts, Pads, Teeths, Tumpy tonics. Make Norrath Great Again. In fact never move past the legacy erra and TD Binds... Keep all legacy items in forever and never do the dumb shit the raiders wanted.

[Trude]

Hey, guys. This is the first time I've logged in since 2013. I want to get back into P99. I see all this talk of different servers and, while I understand blue and red, this is the first time I've seen green and teal mentioned. How are they different to blue? Are their special rules Or are they the same just newer? And finally, which server is the newest, as that is probably where I'll start.

[DMN]

On live you could (can?) scroll through excess characters with the up and down arrows on the keyboard. Common issue for the Zek server and various other merges.

this wasnt the case for early merges/server moves. you'd have to delete characters to make new characters show if you were already at max.

[SenoraRaton]

Hey, guys. This is the first time I've logged in since 2013. I want to get back into P99. I see all this talk of different servers and, while I understand blue and red, this is the first time I've seen green and teal mentioned. How are they different to blue? Are their special rules Or are they the same just newer? And finally, which server is the newest, as that is probably where I'll start.

Green was released 2(?) years ago, and is now at the end of its time cycle. So Green is the newest server, and there are rumors that Green 2.0 will be released sometime. Maybe within a year?

[PatChapp]

Hey, guys. This is the first time I've logged in since 2013. I want to get back into P99. I see all this talk of different servers and, while I understand blue and red, this is the first time I've seen green and teal mentioned. How are they different to blue? Are their special rules Or are they the same just newer? And finally, which server is the newest, as that is probably where I'll start.

Green has anew thing called list camps for highly desired items. It was used for guises,J boots,manastones etc in classic. Server managed list,no matter who kills the mob only #1 is able to loot.Now it's only for vp key items that we are at the end of the timeline.
It's a good system overall, not sure what their plans are for it next new server

[Cen]

Hey, guys. This is the first time I've logged in since 2013. I want to get back into P99. I see all this talk of different servers and, while I understand blue and red, this is the first time I've seen green and teal mentioned. How are they different to blue? Are their special rules Or are they the same just newer? And finally, which server is the newest, as that is probably where I'll start.

So you know Blue and Red of course, and they finally announced in 2019 that the Green server would launch which was a proper timed out timeline for classic. They wanted to run the classic era as close as the original game went as possible, but do it like a seasonal thing, so when Green is about a year past the end of its timeline, it would roll into Blue, and a new green season 2 would start, and so on. It kind of works like seasonal systems in games like diablo/path of exile and other games like that.

They had one update where they said a lot of folks were concerned and didn't want that merge to happen, so they will play it by ear. Personally i'm a fan of the original proposed system of doing the main nonseason server and a rotating seasonal server, but its up to them.

Now you might wonder "what is Teal"?

Green launched to insane popularity and the servers couldn't handle the player count. Not from a technical standpoint but for a classic load standpoint on the content, so for a temporary time, the server split into a second shard. After around the 4-5 month mark, they remerged once numbers came back to manageable levels and now its just green again.


the staff did an amazing job with everything, better then I could ever imagine possible. There is not and likely will never be anyone who creates as accurate a picture of the classic timeline. Here's hoping for season 2 :D

[Arvan]

List was overall an epic fail unless you had a lot of friends who wanted to account share to camp the 40 hour item drop or whatever so you could sleep. If they figured out a way to disable account sharing for lists that would make it more fair to the entire population.

[Cen]

List was overall an epic fail unless you had a lot of friends who wanted to account share to camp the 40 hour item drop or whatever so you could sleep. If they figured out a way to disable account sharing for lists that would make it more fair to the entire population.

I agree, players found a way to game the system on that one :P I don't know if they can program the list to break if your location significantly changed, that seems like impossible coding but I don't know what is possible.

[loramin]

List was overall an epic fail unless you had a lot of friends who wanted to account share to camp the 40 hour item drop or whatever so you could sleep. If they figured out a way to disable account sharing for lists that would make it more fair to the entire population.

There's a very, very, simple way, and I truly hope they adopt it for /list 2.0 in Green 2.0: just make it so everyone on the list has a random chance of getting the item. If you sit there for three days without sleep, or trading accounts with others you get ... three days of chances to win the item.

But if you just play like a normal person (ie. login when you want to play and logout when you don't) you also have chances to win the item, based on how long you play. This both fits the spirit of the game better (no one on live was ever guaranteed anything as a reward for sitting in the game for a long time: it was always a random chance at whatever camp) and it eliminates the issues of /list 1.0, making it viable for normal/sane solo players.

[Ooloo]

There's a very, very, simple way, and I truly hope they adopt it for /list 2.0 in Green 2.0: just make it so everyone on the list has a random chance of getting the item. If you sit there for three days without sleep, or trading accounts with others you get ... three days of chances to win the item.

But if you just play like a normal person (ie. login when you want to play and logout when you don't) you also have chances to win the item, based on how long you play. This both fits the spirit of the game better (no one on live was ever guaranteed anything as a reward for sitting in the game for a long time: it was always a random chance at whatever camp) and it eliminates the issues of /list 1.0, making it viable for normal/sane solo players.

Yeah but this would kind of just be trading one unfair thing for another. If I sat there for three days and just got unlucky, and never got the item, and people kept getting it ahead of me who had only been there for a couple hours just by sheer luck, I'd be just as pissed as facing a long camp due to account sharing.

I think the /list system as implemented was the best possible solution, even though yes some people are gonna game it by account sharing. It's still MUCH better than allowing the poopsock guild to just say fuck you to the rest of the server by passing the camp off the guildies forever until the items stop dropping.

One thing that might make it fairer would simply be that if you log out\switch accounts you get booted from the list. Yes this would also be unfair to the occasional person who loses connection, but honestly in the modern age that almost never happens unless the power goes out or something, and p99 generally only crashes while zoning so that wouldn't be an issue at a list camp where you're just in one zone for a long time. So at least in this system, the unfair thing would happen very infrequently.

[cd288]

Yeah but this would kind of just be trading one unfair thing for another. If I sat there for three days and just got unlucky, and never got the item, and people kept getting it ahead of me who had only been there for a couple hours just by sheer luck, I'd be just as pissed as facing a long camp due to account sharing.

I think the /list system as implemented was the best possible solution, even though yes some people are gonna game it by account sharing. It's still MUCH better than allowing the poopsock guild to just say fuck you to the rest of the server by passing the camp off the guildies forever until the items stop dropping.

One thing that might make it fairer would simply be that if you log out\switch accounts you get booted from the list. Yes this would also be unfair to the occasional person who loses connection, but honestly in the modern age that almost never happens unless the power goes out or something, and p99 generally only crashes while zoning so that wouldn't be an issue at a list camp where you're just in one zone for a long time. So at least in this system, the unfair thing would happen very infrequently.

This

[Zeboim]

Legacy items cause more gymnastics than the Olympics.

Just remove the damn things or make them never stop dropping.

[Jibartik]

I think they solved this "problem" in world of warcraft it is :that way:

[Cen]

It kind of is silly that they stop dropping. They aren't even a problem to continue dropping.
The guise is one of my favorite items in the game especially.

[loramin]

Yeah but this would kind of just be trading one unfair thing for another. If I sat there for three days and just got unlucky, and never got the item, and people kept getting it ahead of me who had only been there for a couple hours just by sheer luck, I'd be just as pissed as facing a long camp due to account sharing.

I think the /list system as implemented was the best possible solution, even though yes some people are gonna game it by account sharing. It's still MUCH better than allowing the poopsock guild to just say fuck you to the rest of the server by passing the camp off the guildies forever until the items stop dropping.

One thing that might make it fairer would simply be that if you log out\switch accounts you get booted from the list. Yes this would also be unfair to the occasional person who loses connection, but honestly in the modern age that almost never happens unless the power goes out or something, and p99 generally only crashes while zoning so that wouldn't be an issue at a list camp where you're just in one zone for a long time. So at least in this system, the unfair thing would happen very infrequently.

Welcome to EverQuest: what I described is just as "fair" as (literally) anything else in the game.

Nothing else in this game is guaranteed ... you don't get to sit at the mushroom king camp for X hours and get handed a Fungi Tunic, do you? Why should items that are so good, they got removed from the game, be guaranteed ... when a Fungi Tunic isn't?

[SenoraRaton]

Yeah but this would kind of just be trading one unfair thing for another. If I sat there for three days and just got unlucky, and never got the item, and people kept getting it ahead of me who had only been there for a couple hours just by sheer luck, I'd be just as pissed as facing a long camp due to account sharing.

I think the /list system as implemented was the best possible solution, even though yes some people are gonna game it by account sharing. It's still MUCH better than allowing the poopsock guild to just say fuck you to the rest of the server by passing the camp off the guildies forever until the items stop dropping.

One thing that might make it fairer would simply be that if you log out\switch accounts you get booted from the list. Yes this would also be unfair to the occasional person who loses connection, but honestly in the modern age that almost never happens unless the power goes out or something, and p99 generally only crashes while zoning so that wouldn't be an issue at a list camp where you're just in one zone for a long time. So at least in this system, the unfair thing would happen very infrequently.

This doesn't solve the problem, it just makes you screen share your local machine to your friends instead. It adds a technical barrier that is surmountable.

I think the solution should be to essentially award DKP every time the PH/Named is killed.(Or possibly every time you pass an AFK check) If your logged on, and on the list, then you get a point, and the person with the most points gets the drop, if its tied, it rolls and selects one. This way you can log off and go to sleep, you can even spend an hour a day at the camp, and slowly accumulate DKP. Given enough time at camp you will get your item.

[Jibartik]

Best way to get a legacy item is to learn how to get there quickly at server launch speaking of hhhhngggggggg

[Zeboim]

Better get to work growing out that neckbeard now then. Only thanks to the power of a fully armed and operational one can you achieve that goal.

[loramin]

I think the solution should be to essentially award DKP every time the PH/Named is killed.(Or possibly every time you pass an AFK check) If your logged on, and on the list, then you get a point, and the person with the most points gets the drop, if its tied, it rolls and selects one. This way you can log off and go to sleep, you can even spend an hour a day at the camp, and slowly accumulate DKP. Given enough time at camp you will get your item.

Except that there is no "DKP" (or anything like it, except plat) in the game. EverQuest is not a game about guaranteed rewards: even when you raid, there's no guarantee that you'll get the mob, or that it will drop the item you want.

That was the core flaw (IMHO) of lists: they were an amazing feat of "automated GMing", which is perfectly legitimate given that we don't have paid GMs here ... but they ultimately added a very un-EQ-like loot guarantee.

[Ooloo]

Welcome to EverQuest: what I described is just as "fair" as (literally) anything else in the game.

Nothing else in this game is guaranteed ... you don't get to sit at the mushroom king camp for X hours and get handed a Fungi Tunic, do you? Why should items that are so good, they got removed from the game, be guaranteed ... when a Fungi Tunic isn't?

Because they *aren't* guaranteed, especially if you kick people from the list if they account share. It took me several attempts to get a guise before they were removed cause I wasn't willing to account share and I can't stay up for 24hrs straight.. I finally got one after a 9 hour camp just a week or two before they were removed.

The entire spirit of the game that attracts this niche playerbase is that not everyone gets a participation trophy. Some people cynically think that means everyone has a mindset of wanting to deny others, when I think it's more that they want to actually feel some sense of achievement for doing something hard.

[Swish]

Stick a lottery npc next to Shady in the tunnel. 1kpp tickets with a 1:xxx chance of getting the guise/other similar items. Combats inflation and people can get themselves sorted.

[loramin]

Because they *aren't* guaranteed, especially if you kick people from the list if they account share.

But they are the definition of guaranteed if the camp isn't 24+ hours (eg. I got /list-guaranteed JBoots), or if you don't sleep or share accounts.

And remember, the whole reason we have /list in the first place is that GMs don't have time to manage lists ... but if the GM's don't have time to manage lists, I highly doubt they have the time it would take research and find account sharers.

Just making /list a random chance is elegant in its simplicity: it solves everything in a classic-ish way ... except for people wanting a guarantee for their time spent (and I would argue those people are playing the wrong game).

[Ooloo]

The other thing about the /list items is that they aren't really technically ever "removed" unless they're no drop, like a guise. You can still get a manastone on green, just save up enough plat and wait until one is for sale! You might call that "guaranteed" in a sense. If you pour hours and hours into the game, you *can* still get one on a new character.

Guises are basically just fashionquest with a couple faction uses, it makes sense they should be no-drop and limited. If anyone can get a guise and use it at any time, you might as well just give every class illusion: dark elf as a base ability.

[Ooloo]

But they are the definition of guaranteed if the camp isn't 24+ hours (eg. I got /list-guaranteed JBoots), or if you don't sleep or share accounts.

And remember, the whole reason we have /list in the first place is that GMs don't have time to manage lists ... but if the GM's don't have time to manage lists, I highly doubt they have the time it would take research and find account sharers.

Just making /list a random chance is elegant in its simplicity: it solves everything in a classic-ish way ... except for people wanting a guarantee for their time spent (and I would argue those people are playing the wrong game).

It would be dead simple to remove people from lists if they camp\go LD. It would be harder to track down people screensharing to essentially account share without logging their char out, but it's still another check. If you make something harder to do, there will inevitably be a set of people who won't do it who otherwise would have.

[adruidarkly]

bring me a new server, my toons are full of pixel and i hate them now!
i want to farm a new server to make new toons full of pixel with same people so i can hate those toons, too.

[Fammaden]

The people need to know when to take time off from work for the next green launch. We beg for an announcement of the future plans.

[Jibartik]

bring me a new server, my toons are full of pixel and i hate them now!
i want to farm a new server to make new toons full of pixel with same people so i can hate those toons, too.

https://i.imgur.com/BH0Mscn.gif

[Danth]

The entire spirit of the game that attracts this niche playerbase is that not everyone gets a participation trophy.

It could just as easily be argued that P99's oddball, cutthroat culture is part of why it's a niche community--it drives a lot of normal folks away. I definitely see conversation to that effect on various sites across the 'net.

----------------------------------------

That being said, I regard our defacto reality here as representing a sort of compromise: Anyone can, without serious hurdles, obtain sufficient stuff to let their characters do the jobs they're meant to do throughout virtually the entire game. That's good enough for me. "Participation trophies" or "welfare gear" or whatever derogatory term you want to call it by very much exists--it's called thurgadin armor (or its non-set equivalents). The folks who built this game made sure people could get the stuff needed for their characters to function, without being blocked. The high-end pixels that people argue and bicker so vehemently over are largely optional fluff. So let 'em argue and bicker. The folks who quit because they can't get that type of stuff are, I think, obsessing over unneeded stuff to an excessive degree and getting themselves bent out of shape over nothing of import.

Danth

[Jibartik]

TLP players hate p99 lol

So let 'em argue and bicker. The folks who quit because they can't get that type of stuff are, I think, obsessing over unneeded stuff to an excessive degree and getting themselves bent out of shape over nothing of import.

Yeah - I like reset severs because it's all about the race which is my favorite competition in EQ "the race" butI think a lot of folks just like raiding which I understand. I dont though I just cant maintain my attention span to do all the rigamerolle that goes into it. I have web99's style s-posts on the forums to make!

[Raj]

Stick a lottery npc next to Shady in the tunnel. 1kpp tickets with a 1:xxx chance of getting the guise/other similar items. Combats inflation and people can get themselves sorted.

[Trude]

So you know Blue and Red of course, and they finally announced in 2019 that the Green server would launch which was a proper timed out timeline for classic. They wanted to run the classic era as close as the original game went as possible, but do it like a seasonal thing, so when Green is about a year past the end of its timeline, it would roll into Blue, and a new green season 2 would start, and so on. It kind of works like seasonal systems in games like diablo/path of exile and other games like that.

They had one update where they said a lot of folks were concerned and didn't want that merge to happen, so they will play it by ear. Personally i'm a fan of the original proposed system of doing the main nonseason server and a rotating seasonal server, but its up to them.

Now you might wonder "what is Teal"?

Green launched to insane popularity and the servers couldn't handle the player count. Not from a technical standpoint but for a classic load standpoint on the content, so for a temporary time, the server split into a second shard. After around the 4-5 month mark, they remerged once numbers came back to manageable levels and now its just green again.


the staff did an amazing job with everything, better then I could ever imagine possible. There is not and likely will never be anyone who creates as accurate a picture of the classic timeline. Here's hoping for season 2 :D

Thank you for the amazing response

[Coridan]

Honestly they should just re-itemize the game. Bring back some of the mystery.

[Castle2.0]

Nothing else in this game is guaranteed ... you don't get to sit at the mushroom king camp for X hours and get handed a Fungi Tunic, do you? Why should items that are so good, they got removed from the game, be guaranteed ... when a Fungi Tunic isn't?

Ackshually, lists don't guarantee a drop either. They guarantee you a spot at the camp. You might get it in 1 hour or 100 hours. Lists don't change that.

If you continually held the fungi tunic camp until the next drop you would get it. Period. If you leave, you are done with the camp. List or no list, it's the same.

Lists are exactly the same with one important change: people can't just pass the camp to a friend/guildie of their choice AFTER they loot the item.

Anti-listers are either stupid, jealous, and/or don't have a lot of time to play.

They don't want what is 'fair,' they want whatever gives them a better chance at loot regardless of what is ackshually fair.

Period.

[loramin]

Ackshually, lists don't guarantee a drop either. They guarantee you a spot at the camp. You might get it in 1 hour or 100 hours. Lists don't change that.

If you continually held the fungi tunic camp until the next drop you would get it. Period. If you leave, you are done with the camp. List or no list, it's the same.

Lists are exactly the same with one important change: people can't just pass the camp to a friend/guildie of their choice AFTER they loot the item.

Anti-listers are either stupid, jealous, and/or don't have a lot of time to play.

They don't want what is 'fair,' they want whatever gives them a better chance at loot regardless of what is ackshually fair.

Period.

So, back in classic (you know, the thing this entire server is trying to emulate), what camps had people sitting for 24+ hours knowing they'd be guaranteed to get the next drop?

I remember the way lots (in fact, all) camps worked was that you'd show up for a few hours, and for those few hours you'd have a chance at an item. I don't remember any camps working the /list (1.0) way.

[adruidarkly]

whatever im over on p99 evergreen looting cracked staffs as we speak

[Fammaden]

Need new Teal ASAP.

[Castle2.0]

So, back in classic (you know, the thing this entire server is trying to emulate), what camps had people sitting for 24+ hours knowing they'd be guaranteed to get the next drop?

I remember the way lots (in fact, all) camps worked was that you'd show up for a few hours, and for those few hours you'd have a chance at an item. I don't remember any camps working the /list (1.0) way.

You are either stupid/unimaginative or just so selfish you can't see another angle.

You want to talk classic. Here's a question:

Question: In classic, did players holding camps where a rare, powerful item drops once every 20-100 hours usually decide to /random the item when it drops to whoever was around, regardless of how long people have been at the camp?

Answer: No

Your idea is worse than the current list. When you come up with something better, let us know.

[Castle2.0]

Imagine someone camping Hadden for 24+ hours, and someone comes up and says "heya this thing pops in 5 minutes, I'll stick around for the /random..."

A bunch of druids/wizard alts gate there where they are bound and do the same... lol... never happened in classic.

List ain't classic, but it's the most fair and closest to classic solution we have.

[Castle2.0]

You either don't count time at the camp or you do.

If you don't, you get a bunch of people logging onto alts every 30minute, 8 hours or whatever the pop time is to get a /random shot.

If you do count time, you have.... The /List

[loramin]

Wow, all those posts ... as a "list lifer", you were clearly triggered by my idea ;)

Look, I'll grant that for you, Castle 2.0, who clearly liked sitting for 48+ hours at the same camp, /list was great.

But for the vast majority of the server ... and for best emulating the game from '99 (where, again, no one waited even 24 hours for a camp) ... a random list still seems best to me.

[ezigrelnos]

Lists are exactly the same with one important change: people can't just pass the camp to a friend/guildie of their choice AFTER they loot the item.

Anti-listers are either stupid, jealous, and/or don't have a lot of time to play.

They don't want what is 'fair,' they want whatever gives them a better chance at loot regardless of what is ackshually fair.

Period.

remotely accessing multiple computers at once to hit AFK CHECK every 15 minutes is very fair and is completely different than handing the camp off to your guildy/friend...

not to mention the real humans trying to not cheat the system actually sitting 40 hours in a row every 15~ minutes hitting an AFK check box is totally fair because fuck your health if you even want a chance at loot because these items are camped in perpetuity

totally not abused or broken in any way, nope, nuh uh, if you didn't get your game breaking limited edition item in time then you obviously don't care enough

ps. when green2.0 so i can let someone hit AFK on my account for 2 days for a chance at loot because i play fair and only care about whats fair for everyone

[Castle2.0]

No good argument put forward. Just "think of the casuals." Typical. Just want what is best for you instead of what is actually fair.

Also, if you had 2 brain cells to rub together, you could apply everything you just said to the exact system you propose ;)

Lemme help you with that...

remotely accessing multiple computers at once to hit AFK CHECK /random for loot every 15 whatever minutes is very fair and is completely different than handing the camp off to your guildy/friend...

not to mention the real humans trying to not cheat the system actually sitting 40 hours in a row logging in every 15~ whatever minutes hitting an AFK check box to random for loot is totally fair

There you go.

You want what is 'easy' for you, not what makes for a level playing field.

If you think it'll cost your health, you get to decide if it's worth it or not.

[eqravenprince]

You want a Fungi, Fishbone earring, Manastone, Ring of the Ancients, etc for your character, come kill the NPC and loot it yourself. Making certain items No Drop and Not MQable solves a lot of this nonsense.

[cd288]

Imagine someone camping Hadden for 24+ hours, and someone comes up and says "heya this thing pops in 5 minutes, I'll stick around for the /random..."

A bunch of druids/wizard alts gate there where they are bound and do the same... lol... never happened in classic.

List ain't classic, but it's the most fair and closest to classic solution we have.

Except if you’re allowed to do that and just show up for the /random why would you sit there camping Haden for 24 hours? Problem solved

[ezigrelnos]

No good argument put forward. Just "think of the casuals." Typical. Just want what is best for you instead of what is actually fair.

Also, if you had 2 brain cells to rub together, you could apply everything you just said to the exact system you propose ;)

Lemme help you with that...



There you go.

You want what is 'easy' for you, not what makes for a level playing field.

If you think it'll cost your health, you get to decide if it's worth it or not.

i never said anything about random so i don't know why this counters my entire argument, the point still stands that /list is broken in its current form and is NOT fair, which is the only thing you care about so I'm not sure why you are defending it and insulting anyone who brings up valid issues with it?

are you ignorant, do you not care, i dont understand? list is factually broken, and arguably makes loot EASIER TO OBTAIN for anyone who is willing to BREAK TERMS OF SERVICE of the server they play on (with little to no risk mind you)

and its not a choice of whether i want to damage my health, i just physically cannot stay awake for 40+ hours in a row so i guess I don't get loot/play the game? this is fair?

you want an actual fix to /list? make the hours earned roll over and base the prioritization of your list position on total hours logged at camp

spend 30 hours over 5 days? come back day 6 and you're ahead everyone under you. Are they mad they spent 20 hours and lost their spot? sure, but they can do the same thing and they don't lose their spot. eventually, given enough time spent, you will earn the right to loot (maybe 100 hours? who knows but at least this is FAIR and OBTAINABLE [read:not easy/free])



"think of the casuals." i dont want everyone and their grandma to be handed a mana stone on login but if you think you're a tuff guy on a PVE server because your guild rotates out AFK duty on limited items you're beyond help

[loramin]

you want an actual fix to /list? make the hours earned roll over and base the prioritization of your list position on total hours logged at camp

spend 30 hours over 5 days? come back day 6 and you're ahead everyone under you. Are they mad they spent 20 hours and lost their spot? sure, but they can do the same thing and they don't lose their spot. eventually, given enough time spent, you will earn the right to loot (maybe 100 hours? who knows but at least this is FAIR and OBTAINABLE [read:not easy/free])

We're just making up our own game at that point ... but the point of this place isn't to do that, it's to recreate EverQuest from 1999-2001.

Look, /list 1.0 started out with the best intentions of doing that. We know exactly what happened in classic when 2+ people wanted a camp, because we have the GM guidelines (https://wiki.project1999.com/Kunark_Era_Customer_Service_Guidelines) from back then:

8.2.3 Contested Spawn Complaints
When a complaint is received indicating that a spawn or kill is contested, a disruption investigation should first be initiated according to the procedures of section 8.2.2 to determine if harassment or Zone/Area disruption is occurring. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary, instruct the parties involved in the contested spawn situation to work out a compromise. Then leave the scene.

If another complaint is received involving the same spawn site, another disruption investigation should be initiated. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary, if any of the parties involved were involved in the initial situation, establish a compromise for the parties to which the parties are required to abide. The compromise should be as described in section 8.2.3.1. Any party refusing to abide by the compromise established by the CS Representative should be issued a warning for disruption.

On PvP servers, where players can reach a solution to the contested spawn situation, the CS Representative does not need to require the players to share the spawn.

8.2.3.1
The compromise will require all parties to take turns killing the spawn(s). All parties involved in the contested spawn should be instructed to use /random 0 100 to choose a number. The CS Representative then uses /random 0 100. The individual with the closest number to the CS Representative’s number will be next in the rotation. The CS Representative then bases the rest of the rotation order on how close the other parties’ numbers were to theirs. The compromise established by a CS Representative must be objective and not require the CS Representative to choose one customer over another based on subjective criteria. The CS Representative is the arbiter in any disputes in establishing the compromise.

But, we don't have paid GMs with time to do all of the classic stuff described above ... so the devs made /list 1.0 as a way to resolve things automatically without human GMs.

The problem is, back in classic no one stayed at a camp for even 24 hours. Most players' internet connections wouldn't even stay stable for more than a few hours back then!

If we want to do the most classic thing (which, again, is the whole point of this place ... just look at the upper-left corner of your screen) it should be as close to what happened on live as possible. A random roll was used on live, and it came with an implicit time limit (the camp was assumed to free up within a few hours). If new people contested the same mob after that time, it would result in ... another random roll.

A random /list 2.0 solves all of the (unclassic) problems with people sitting for 24+ hours, trading accounts with each other, etc ... and it brings us as close as we can get (without paid GMs) to classic.

[SenoraRaton]

What I wanna know is if Mage is going to be "fixed" on launch, or if we are going to allow a class to be functionally unplayable for months again.

[SenoraRaton]

i never said anything about random so i don't know why this counters my entire argument, the point still stands that /list is broken in its current form and is NOT fair, which is the only thing you care about so I'm not sure why you are defending it and insulting anyone who brings up valid issues with it?

are you ignorant, do you not care, i dont understand? list is factually broken, and arguably makes loot EASIER TO OBTAIN for anyone who is willing to BREAK TERMS OF SERVICE of the server they play on (with little to no risk mind you)

and its not a choice of whether i want to damage my health, i just physically cannot stay awake for 40+ hours in a row so i guess I don't get loot/play the game? this is fair?

you want an actual fix to /list? make the hours earned roll over and base the prioritization of your list position on total hours logged at camp

spend 30 hours over 5 days? come back day 6 and you're ahead everyone under you. Are they mad they spent 20 hours and lost their spot? sure, but they can do the same thing and they don't lose their spot. eventually, given enough time spent, you will earn the right to loot (maybe 100 hours? who knows but at least this is FAIR and OBTAINABLE [read:not easy/free])



"think of the casuals." i dont want everyone and their grandma to be handed a mana stone on login but if you think you're a tuff guy on a PVE server because your guild rotates out AFK duty on limited items you're beyond help

This is the answer. Just award points to PH kills, and whoever has the most points, gets the item. That is how we handle raid DKP, why can't it just be that simple. Then you can log on whenever you can, and you will KNOW where your at in the grand scheme of things, and everyone will constantly be making progress, instead of being forced to be physically present at the camp for unhealthy amounts of time.

[ezigrelnos]

We're just making up our own game at that point ... but the point of this place isn't to do that, it's to recreate EverQuest from 1999-2001.

Look, /list 1.0 started out with the best intentions of doing that. We know exactly what happened in classic when 2+ people wanted a camp, because we have the GM guidelines (https://wiki.project1999.com/Kunark_Era_Customer_Service_Guidelines) from back then:



But, we don't have paid GMs with time to do all of the classic stuff described above ... so the devs made /list 1.0 as a way to resolve things automatically without human GMs.

The problem is, back in classic no one stayed at a camp for even 24 hours. Most players' internet connections wouldn't even stay stable for more than a few hours back then!

If we want to do the most classic thing (which, again, is the whole point of this place ... just look at the upper-left corner of your screen) it should be as close to what happened on live as possible. A random roll was used on live, and it came with an implicit time limit (the camp was assumed to free up within a few hours). If new people contested the same mob after that time, it would result in ... another random roll.

A random /list 2.0 solves all of the (unclassic) problems with people sitting for 24+ hours, trading accounts with each other, etc ... and it brings us as close as we can get (without paid GMs) to classic.

this is a good point to make that the spirit of list should be as classic as possible, where as my solution is very specifically a modern take on the solution (which was a modern solution initially that has modern flaws like virtual machines/ocr) but really I just wanted to let castle2.0 know that the current list is not fair and makes loot easier to obtain which goes against the two talking points he stands for

Random may not be the most "fair" but is is quite accommodating while still being the most "classic" take on /list

[ezigrelnos]

oh did i win against all the forumquesters?

i dont usually post so jw how powerleveled i just got...

[Castle2.0]

i never said anything about random so i don't know why this counters my entire argument, the point still stands that /list is broken in its current form and is NOT fair, which is the only thing you care about so I'm not sure why you are defending it and insulting anyone who brings up valid issues with it?

are you ignorant, do you not care, i dont understand? list is factually broken, and arguably makes loot EASIER TO OBTAIN for anyone who is willing to BREAK TERMS OF SERVICE of the server they play on (with little to no risk mind you)

and its not a choice of whether i want to damage my health, i just physically cannot stay awake for 40+ hours in a row so i guess I don't get loot/play the game? this is fair?

you want an actual fix to /list? make the hours earned roll over and base the prioritization of your list position on total hours logged at camp

spend 30 hours over 5 days? come back day 6 and you're ahead everyone under you. Are they mad they spent 20 hours and lost their spot? sure, but they can do the same thing and they don't lose their spot. eventually, given enough time spent, you will earn the right to loot (maybe 100 hours? who knows but at least this is FAIR and OBTAINABLE [read:not easy/free])



"think of the casuals." i dont want everyone and their grandma to be handed a mana stone on login but if you think you're a tuff guy on a PVE server because your guild rotates out AFK duty on limited items you're beyond help

Not grandmas, just the exact level of commitment you personally want to put in. Noted. Loramin is the one pushing the "random" idea. Has no legs, will never make it in. But when I see a bad idea I have to shoot it down.

Just a public service announcement:

EVERY TERRIBLE LIST REPLACEMENT IDEA HAS BEEN REFUTED IN PREVIOUS THREADS. GO READ

I'll entertain a few though for people who can't use the search function:

This is the answer. Just award points to PH kills, and whoever has the most points, gets the item. That is how we handle raid DKP, why can't it just be that simple. Then you can log on whenever you can, and you will KNOW where your at in the grand scheme of things, and everyone will constantly be making progress, instead of being forced to be physically present at the camp for unhealthy amounts of time. Bad.

You have 100 kills, I have 101. You have been camping for 10 hours. I show up. You have no incentive to stay except to stack some more kills. You won't be getting the next item. You leave. You effectively lost your camp.

If we want to do the most classic thing (which, again, is the whole point of this place ... just look at the upper-left corner of your screen) it should be as close to what happened on live as possible. A random roll was used on live, and it came with an implicit time limit (the camp was assumed to free up within a few hours). If new people contested the same mob after that time, it would result in ... another random roll.

A random /list 2.0 solves all of the (unclassic) problems with people sitting for 24+ hours, trading accounts with each other, etc ... and it brings us as close as we can get (without paid GMs) to classic. Baggy jeans were also fashionable amongst youth in the early 2000s. Anything else irrelevant that happened around the same time? Oh there was a BOTB and /duels. People should /duel for camps.

/random is to decide "tie-breakers." Someone at a camp before someone else should never be forced or /random the camp because someone new comes along. It's as simple as that. Sorry, you are too braindead to understand.

The pixel greed and projection is hilarious.

[SenoraRaton]

You have 100 kills, I have 101. You have been camping for 10 hours. I show up. You have no incentive to stay except to stack some more kills. You won't be getting the next item. You leave. You effectively lost your camp.



False, I sit at the camp, and collect points until I'm first on the list. It works just like /list does. You know your current position in camp, in this scenario it can change, and you can go backwards, but you can never loss progress. Isn't the entire way to get drops to kill the mob more, until it drops the item?

[Castle2.0]

Similar to list, but worse.

Now you get no-lifers on alt accounts stacking kills in-between raids, that weren't able to camp the item AND go on raids before.

[ezigrelnos]

Similar to list, but worse.

Now you get no-lifers on alt accounts stacking kills in-between raids, that weren't able to camp the item AND go on raids before.

can we just agree that the current /list is not fair and makes gear easier to obtain with the VM/OCR issues?

shutdown and shit on all the other examples all you want but it doesn't make the truth any harder to swallow

[Castle2.0]

can we just agree that the current /list is not fair and makes gear easier to obtain with the VM/OCR issues?

shutdown and shit on all the other examples all you want but it doesn't make the truth any harder to swallow

No, we can't agree, because you are dumb/selfish and the list is the best we have.

[cd288]

so I'm not sure why you are defending it and insulting anyone who brings up valid issues with it?

I’m surprised that you’ve had an account since 2014 and haven’t realized that that’s who castle is. He’s just a rude individual who is way too immersed in P99

[Castle2.0]

I’m surprised that you’ve had an account since 2014 and haven’t realized that that’s who castle is. He’s just a rude individual who is way too immersed in P99

Haven't played in months. I just don't let bad ideas get passed off as good ones. Such is the life of a good guy.

[Jimjam]

No, we can't agree, because you are dumb/selfish and the list is the best we have.

Agreed. The non classic csr automation need to be in the way that has been shown to benefit me and anyone arguing otherwise is just a low iq eq selfish.

[Castle2.0]

Agreed. The non classic csr automation need to be in the way that has been shown to benefit me and anyone arguing otherwise is just a low iq eq selfish.

Except I provide actual argumentation and not just "It's not fair! Think of all the players (that are just like me)"

"Let's do instancing so everyone can enjoy all the content. I only have 1.5 hours to play each weekend. I can't wait for a camp to open."

Same reasoning.

[Jimjam]

Sorry that was unfair of me to just make a strawman jab at you without even putting any content in my post.

I did like list, made pained soul way better imo.

On classic each server had different GMs running things their own way.

I kinda like the idea that each p99 server can have a slightly different gm enforcement slant to shake up the meta. For that reason I think a new system would make the new server more interesting, different to the others and therefore classic.

[Castle2.0]

Sorry that was unfair of me to just make a strawman jab at you without even putting any content in my post.

I did like list, made pained soul way better imo.

On classic each server had different GMs running things their own way.

I kinda like the idea that each p99 server can have a slightly different gm enforcement slant to shake up the meta. For that reason I think a new system would make the new server more interesting, different to the others and therefore classic.

If something better comes along, let's do it. List is like democracy or USD. It's the cleanest shirt in the dirty clothes hamper.

The fundamental equation of EQ is: time in = pixels out. Levels, tradeskills, raid progression, it's one big timesink. That's just the nature of EQ. Sad, but true.

Nothing true to the original will do anything else.

If we want a pure skill fantasy game we had Spellbinder: The Nexus (amazing for its time) and recently Spellbreak (myeh.)

tsKRsVxOa1o
OqCBqP1HCh8

[Jimjam]

Doesn’t have to be strictly better, imo … as long as it is much of a muchness. Certainly wouldn’t want a substantial downgrade or anything that increases load on the staff though. Them volunteers are some good elves.

[Jibartik]

I just like a game where we run around and kill bears and wolves and occasionally you see somebody dressed in like beaming orange armor that is a dragon slayer and you’re like what the f I don’t even understand how to play this game!

[infoMaleick]

Green 2.0 will be the best

[ezigrelnos]

"Let's do instancing so everyone can enjoy all the content. I only have 1.5 hours to play each weekend. I can't wait for a camp to open."

Same reasoning.

you put in the time and get the loot but its 2022 so you can only argue semantics so long until you face the facts the current /list is fundamentally broken with VM/OCR where guilds can hold the list hostage for 40+ hours in a row with 15 minute afk check intervals but im glad you and everyone else who breaks TOS can enjoy the free loot with 0 effort

oh wait, i thought you were upset people got free loot for no effort? but you love the list? and you love people getting free loot for no effort?

i dont understand your argument because you're saying one thing and doing the opposite, it just sounds like you dont want other people to have a chance at loot and you like the current system because it benefits you

and yet when i give you actual ideas how trying to fix the issues above you turn around and say its just me wanting free loot with no effort?

i know castle is the #1 biggest troll on these boards but i cant help take 10 seconds to dismantle his entire argument because its just too easy

ps i got my list loot like a gentleman so you can piss off thinking i didnt do my time against all you cheaters acting like I'm here just for me to get more loot :)

[ezigrelnos]

ps i got my list loot like a gentleman so you can piss off thinking i didnt do my time against all you cheaters acting like I'm here just for me to get more loot :)

just wanted to reiterate i dont post much, and i'm not the kind of person who seeks attention or self-gratification, i rarely post and if i do its because i believe in something bigger than me that helps out those who dont have a voice to speak on the issue or who cant

i can stay silent, i can say nothing, and i continue gathering my free /list loot without any complaints... but there are those who are in the shadows, who don't have a voice, or who can't quite articulate the issues at hand...

and if I can post at all, I'd like to imagine I'm posting for them, those who have been burdened and outcast and opposed to the systems in place, for those who don't have a voice...

limited edition game breaking items being held hostage in perpetuity (exclaimed by the game masters themselves) is not fair, is not classic, is not anything the people want in P99 and if you say this is the best we got then I doubt your faith in the scientific method

[ezigrelnos]

also castle is so smart he can point out all the flaws in my arguments but he cant take 10 minutes to write a python script to automate the list captcha (also he cant see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch yikes)

[Absynthe2k5]

Daybreak team are scumbags imo. They changed a lot of things for the worse when they took over for Sony, not to say sony was much better but.

[PlsNoBan]

Screen sharing isn't even close to the biggest problem with /list lol. It makes sense the dude that practically openly admitted to scripting the /list system (Castle 2.0) would be in this thread defending how good it is. Spend a weekend learning Python and script bypass the afk check and laugh your way to endless manastones like our buddy castle over here. Perfect system that isn't abused at all nbd.

Source video is a thinly veiled admission to automating the entire /list system for manastones: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=404170

[cd288]

Screen sharing isn't even close to the biggest problem with /list lol. It makes sense the dude that practically openly admitted to scripting the /list system (Castle 2.0) would be in this thread defending how good it is. Spend a weekend learning Python and script bypass the afk check and laugh your way to endless manastones like our buddy castle over here. Perfect system that isn't abused at all nbd.

Source video is a thinly veiled admission to automating the entire /list system for manastones: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=404170

Lol always fun watching him get called out for his shit

[Castle2.0]

Screen sharing isn't even close to the biggest problem with /list lol. It makes sense the dude that practically openly admitted to scripting the /list system (Castle 2.0) would be in this thread defending how good it is. Spend a weekend learning Python and script bypass the afk check and laugh your way to endless manastones like our buddy castle over here. Perfect system that isn't abused at all nbd.

Source video is a thinly veiled admission to automating the entire /list system for manastones: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=404170

I come up with a very creative concept that someone (with the right skillset) could help blind players and this is what I get? Unsurprising coming from such ilk.

I am not a coder by trade, friend. Such a grand, illustrious, incredibly talent-needing feat is beyond a humble elf such as myself.

Next, you may say I sold the stones to buy digital coins or something bizarre! Indeed sir, unsurprising!

Later, you would accuse me causing the Oggok Wormhole™ *sigh*

[JayDee]

since a series of servers progressing from Classic to Kunark to Velious was the original goal of Project 1999.

I dont remember that in the mission statement

[Chortles Snortles]

next server launch all legacy items pvp zones
the end

[Jimjam]

next server launch all legacy items pvp zones
the end

With full item loot :D

[PlsNoBan]

I come up with a very creative concept that someone (with the right skillset) could help blind players and this is what I get? Unsurprising coming from such ilk.

I am not a coder by trade, friend. Such a grand, illustrious, incredibly talent-needing feat is beyond a humble elf such as myself.

Next, you may say I sold the stones to buy digital coins or something bizarre! Indeed sir, unsurprising!

Later, you would accuse me causing the Oggok Wormhole™ *sigh*

We all know you did it but can't openly admit it for obvious reasons. Bypassing the afk check is amateur hour and could be done by anyone with even a beginners understanding of python or another language and using something like opencv and tesseract OCR. That part isn't impressive in the least. As somewhat of an amateur programmer myself the part that impresses me (a little) is the part where you hinted at navigating via /loc in game using atan2. I don't have a very strong math background and that part is black magic to me. I worked on a pixel bot for WoW for personal use that was pretty neat and could do a lot of cool (to me) stuff. Navigating the world was BY FAR the hardest part. I tried for hours to figure out radians and using atan2 to figure out pathing from location to location. I was never able to actually figure it out sadly.

It's kinda nuts how much havoc you can wreak with the weakaura addon and a few lines of code

[infoMaleick]

New Green Thanksgiving 2022?

[gradyk]

next server launch all legacy items pvp zones
the end

that would honestly solve a lot of problems haha would be awesome

[Castle2.0]

Won't happen.

[plzrelax]

It’s a classic solution. Not sure how it would work out though

[Goldknyght]

Just add legacy items to any named in that level range. Stops the camps, least till they are gone then back to the normal schedule program once they are patched out.

[Theturtlehermit]

Im down for areas where Uber high value items drop being Red-like PVP. Thats bad for lower guilds though. Each guild will need a pvp-hit squad to defend the raid-camp. Thats extra burden for low man operations.

[Ithilious]

I think daybreak told Rodawg he can't make any more new servers after Green launched, that's why the Discord server got shit-boxed and that's why there is an eery silence about the matter. Daybreak got bought out though, so maybe there is a chance. Either way, you got another 6 months minimum.

Is this true?

[Magaman]

What was the fastest 1-50 time? Anyone record it?

[Agrimir]

Is this true?

People have been saying the daybreak deal would prevent the green server from being a thing long before the first green server. Now that the first is at the end of it's life cycle, it's time to resurrect that rumor.

[Ooloo]

Technically, just merging all the existing green characters onto blue and wiping green back to day 1 vanilla wouldn't be starting any new servers!

[Patrece]

List was overall an epic fail unless you had a lot of friends who wanted to account share to camp the 40 hour item drop or whatever so you could sleep. If they figured out a way to disable account sharing for lists that would make it more fair to the entire population.

Account sharing was against the original terms of service

The guild bots stuff got out of hand this go around

There's stuff they can do with IP lockouts, extend that to if you're currently on a list

Who knows if they will, otherwise there will be more list pacts made to quadruple team the wait times for each other

[Castle2.0]

Account sharing was against the original terms of service

The guild bots stuff got out of hand this go around

There's stuff they can do with IP lockouts, extend that to if you're currently on a list

Who knows if they will, otherwise there will be more list pacts made to quadruple team the wait times for each other

This man never heard of a VPN.

[Coridan]

There could be a timeout, if your IP changes you have to wait 15 minutes before logging back in. Though I guess remote desktop could still get around it

[PlsNoBan]

There's ways around everything and if there's a way people will find it and do it

[Ooloo]

There's ways around everything and if there's a way people will find it and do it

Sure, but the point is *less* people will find it and do it given more barriers to doing it. It would be insane to suggest that the same amount, let alone *more* people will do something if it's harder to do.

[PlsNoBan]

Sure, but the point is *less* people will find it and do it given more barriers to doing it.

That's a fair point. Can't really argue with that.

[Gustoo]

Any new red server announcements yet guys?

[Raj]

Green 2.0 would be amazing if 50% of the players never played EQ or P99 before. :cool::cool:

Green 2.0 would still be very cool if 30% of long-term or starting players were brand new to P99 or Everquest. :cool:

Green 2.0 is going to really be like .....