Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

At PlsNoBan, you wouldn't use the 320 for 1024 damage spell. It costs 350 mana when including the meditation tick you must lose due to the 7 second cast time. That spell has a 2.92 DPM calculation when taking that into account as opposed to Shock of Steel, which is 3.2 DPM if you cast in between ticks.

You are also just being silly. You wouldn't cast Malo/Slow on mobs dying in 30 seconds, so I am not sure why you are even talking about that.

If a group doesn't want to increase their DPS with root/rotting, why would they care about an extra 30 DPS from a Mage?:) You are basically claiming groups care about DPS, but are fine losing DPS hehe. It's nonsensical and contradictory.

[Vexenu]

If anyone wants to perform the Lord's work and make a video to shut DSM up: find a 55+ Paladin and a 60 Mage with focused water staff and Boots of Bladecalling. The Paladin equips a non-damage primary (no ripostes). The Mage casts DS on the Paladin and buffs pet. The Paladin pulls the seb golem and holds agro by spamming only blind and stun over and over (zero damage). The Mage attacks with backstabbing water pet and clickie nukes until the seb golem is dead (simulating his group DPS). The mob will be dead shockingly quickly and we'll all have a good laugh as DSM tries to find fault with the math.

Is anyone willing and able to perform this test? It's a simple way to conclusively prove exactly how much more damage the Mage can put out compared to the Shaman.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Is anyone willing and able to perform this test? It's a simple way to conclusively prove exactly how much more damage the Mage can put out compared to the Shaman.

Judging by the nearly 400 troll posts, the answer is sadly no. I would certainly love to see this myself, but as you can see the current posters aren't interested in using logic and facts. They could easily prove me wrong if Troxx's data was way off.

[Chortles Snortles]

so, the answer is sadly no shaman
got it (lol)

[Troxx]

100 pages is a huge accomplishment. I have never seen so little said in so many words. Special thanks to those who kept things rolling along. DSM should receive special recognition for his accomplishments within the field of Pathological Absurdity.

My only regret is that DSM never actually attempted to do the one thing he spent so long claiming he could do with his napkin math.

Jolly good job fellas.

https://c.tenor.com/6IZKGSu4bSoAAAAC/accomplishment.gif

Troxx’s closing diagnostic impression of DSM

https://c.tenor.com/P8hafwvLyo4AAAAC/things-that-make-you-go-bluh-ron-white.gif

Purpose achieved. Fun times we’re had but now it’s time to

https://c.tenor.com/aaOpE-gJdUwAAAAM/cats-abandon-thread.gif

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Congrats to all the trolls who have yet to provide evidence for their claims, and are the real reason this thread has 100 pages.

These trolls are Troxx, PlsNoBan, Karanis, Toxigen, Cyxthryth, Gloomlord, Chortles Snortles, and Ripqozko. Their post histories are pretty sad right now.

PlsNoBan alone is using the word "autism" or "autistic" in 1 of every 3 posts from his last 100 as a derogatory remark.

Big yikes. But when they can't win with evidence or logic, they just turn any forum into RnF. It's much easier to try and silence people than actually have a civil conversation.

[Troxx]

To any newcomers:

https://c.tenor.com/KHrEzoaOJQ0AAAAC/funny-cat.gif

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Congrats to all the trolls who have yet to provide evidence for their claims, and are the real reason this thread has 100 pages.

These trolls are Troxx, PlsNoBan, Karanis, Toxigen, Cyxthryth, Gloomlord, Chortles Snortles, and Ripqozko. Their post histories are pretty sad right now.

PlsNoBan alone is using the word "autism" or "autistic" in 1 of every 3 posts from his last 100 as a derogatory remark.

Big yikes. But when they can't win with evidence or logic, they just turn any forum into RnF. It's much easier to try and silence people than actually have a civil conversation.

This is the current state of the discussion, which has yet to be continued due to trolling and lack of evidence or pursuasive arugment:

https://images4.imagebam.com/94/02/9b/MECCRK4_o.png

Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3497117&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

[Toxigen]

just shut the fuck up already jesus christ

[DeathsSilkyMist]

just shut the fuck up already jesus christ

You can stop trolling or post evidence at any time lol.

[Troxx]

Ah so we are back to posting the same copy pastes ad infinitum.

https://c.tenor.com/LsT9MK5Z55cAAAAC/johnoliver-cool.gif

I’m done posting now until or unless DSM decides to nut up (he won’t)

Latros amigos

[Ripqozko]

We've made it to the point his own guildies are telling him to stfu, Congrats fellas. What a VQ recruitment thread this is.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Congrats to all the trolls who have yet to provide evidence for their claims, and are the real reason this thread has 100 pages.

These trolls are Troxx, PlsNoBan, Karanis, Toxigen, Cyxthryth, Gloomlord, Chortles Snortles, and Ripqozko. Their post histories are pretty sad right now.

PlsNoBan alone is using the word "autism" or "autistic" in 1 of every 3 posts from his last 100 as a derogatory remark.

Big yikes. But when they can't win with evidence or logic, they just turn any forum into RnF. It's much easier to try and silence people than actually have a civil conversation.

This is the current state of the discussion, which has yet to be continued due to trolling and lack of evidence or pursuasive arugment:

https://images4.imagebam.com/94/02/9b/MECCRK4_o.png

Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3497117&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

[PlsNoBan]

\What a VQ recruitment thread this is.

DSM posts alone if I knew NOTHING else about VQ would be enough to make me steer clear. It's 100% doing damage to their rep for anyone that doesn't really know much about them as a casual forum reader. This is the exact reason guilds in the past have had RNF bans and rules about members posting certain things. What kind of guild would allow this guy to represent them?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM posts alone if I knew NOTHING else about VQ to make me steer clear. It's 100% doing damage to their rep for anyone that doesn't really know much about them as a casual forum reader. This is the exact reason guilds in the past have had RNF bans and rules about members posting certain things. What kind of guild would allow this guy to represent them?

We will let the readers decide.

Who was it again who is using the word "autism" or "autistic" in 1 of every 3 posts out of his last 100 as a derogatory remark? Oh yeah, that's you.

I certainly wouldn't want to be in a group with a person who starts yelling that you are autistic whenever they disagree with you, think you did something wrong, etc. There is at least a 30% chance of that coming from you with anything you type lol.

[PlsNoBan]

Just callin em like I see em. The reader can decide if it's warranted or not. This whole thread is a bad look on your guild. I've lead moderately successful guilds in the past. I would've put this shit on lockdown like 70 pages ago or you'd no longer have a tag.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Just callin em like I see em. The reader can decide if it's warranted or not. This whole thread is a bad look on your guild. I've lead moderately successful guilds in the past. I would've put this shit on lockdown like 70 pages ago or you'd no longer have a tag.

I feel bad for all the people you yelled at in those guilds. Clearly you have issues with maintaining civility when having a discussion.

[PlsNoBan]

I feel bad for all the people you yelled at in those guilds. Clearly you have issues with maintaining civility when having a discussion.

Almost never had to. I didn't have any members behave like this.

[Toxigen]

lol dont let woke wulf see this hes got the kick button on a hair trigger

[PlsNoBan]

lol dont let woke wulf see this hes got the kick button on a hair trigger

Kind of insane he hasn't already pushed it tbh

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I am not sure why you think VQ would do that.

I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense. You can see my post history.

Your post history shows the word "autism" or "autistic" in 1 of every 3 posts for the past 100 as a derogatory remark. Big Yikes.

[Toxigen]

Don't worry DSM, Riot will take you.

[PlsNoBan]

I am not sure why you think VQ would do that.

I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense. You can see my post history.

Your post history shows the word "autism" or "autistic" in 1 of every 3 posts for the past 100 as a derogatory remark. Big Yikes.

If person A is being a jackass and person B calls them a jackass. Which would you rather have in your guild? You've been crying "Waahhhh somebody called me names!" for about a dozen posts now. This is the internet kid. Grow some thicker skin or gtfo.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If person A is being a jackass and person B calls them a jackass. Which would you rather have in your guild? You've been crying "Waahhhh somebody called me names!" for about a dozen posts now. This is the internet kid. Grow some thicker skin or gtfo.

It's pretty clear who the jackass is. It's the person who is using the word "autism" or "autistic" in 1 of every 3 posts for his last 100 as a derogatory remark. I'll give you a hint, that is you:)

If you weren't being a jackass, you would politely disagree and move on, or provide better evidence to support your claims.

[PlsNoBan]

https://i.imgur.com/FG1Qmr8.gif

[slard271]

...snip... The only way your stupid ass theory works is if the shaman is root rotting adds off to the side which fucking nobody ever does or wants to do besides you.

Why did I actually read this entire trainwreck of a thread? The above sums it up in its entirety. I mean, for reals, objectively lawlz at this being a proposed meta in a fast-paced group chewing through mobs on p99 period let alone in this fantasy scenario. No skin in the game either way from a random observer perspective, but.... just... lawlz. Time to take the L on this one, Mr. Shaman.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Why did I actually read this entire trainwreck of a thread? The above sums it up in its entirety. I mean, for reals, objectively lawlz at this being a proposed meta in a fast-paced group chewing through mobs on p99 period let alone in this fantasy scenario. No skin in the game either way from a random observer perspective, but.... just... lawlz. Time to take the L on this one, Mr. Shaman.

Come back with evidence and I gladly will take an L. So far I have the W, however.

[PlsNoBan]

So far I have the W

Only in post count I'm afraid

[PlsNoBan]

https://i.imgur.com/cImfje9.png

Closing in on 400. Big W!

[w1zard]

Shaman Cleric Enchanter Necro

sub 2nd enchanter for necro but necro gives more flexibility / wipe recovery.

only thing that sucks is no port

[cyxthryth]

I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.

No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Shaman Cleric Enchanter Necro

sub 2nd enchanter for necro but necro gives more flexibility / wipe recovery.

only thing that sucks is no port

I 100% agree. This is my preferred list as well after thinking about it over the course of this thread. It allows you to basically do all of the content in the game a 4 man group can, and still kill plenty fast.

[cyxthryth]

I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Chortles Snortles]

https://images4.imagebam.com/94/02/9b/MECCRK4_o.png

Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3497117&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

https://i.imgur.com/exiZXfc.jpeg

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yup, that's the current data. Thanks for reposting it Snortles Chortles. Anybody who wants to have an actual discussion instead of trolling will find it useful.

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/CXjWBpW.gif

[cyxthryth]

Yup, that's the current data. Thanks for reposting it Snortles Chortles. Anybody who wants to have an actual discussion instead of trolling will find it useful.


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Ripqozko]

screw it lets go 200 boys, we can do it.

[Toxigen]

screw it lets go 200 boys, we can do it.

sorry you dont got 3 weeks off from kael, hope this helps

[PlsNoBan]

Any VQ'ers here wanna chime in on what it's like having to raid and be in voice comms with this guy?

[slard271]

While I cannot say with any degree of certainty that from henceforth I will never invite a class designed for group DPS to fill a group DPS role over a shaman, nay, that I will ever invite any other class other than a shaman to a group, I can say the following with utmost certainty:

This thread will be delivered into the annals of Internet history as the singular, trail blazing Internet forum thread where healthy consensus was built, opinions were jocularly swayed hehe, and in the end all decided to respectfully embrace common elf-dom - both our strengths and our fallibility. For this, we thank you all.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

While I cannot say with any degree of certainty that from henceforth I will never invite a class designed for group DPS to fill a group DPS role over a shaman, nay, that I will ever invite any other class other than a shaman to a group, I can say the following with utmost certainty:

This thread will be delivered into the annals of Internet history as the singular, trail blazing Internet forum thread where healthy consensus was built, opinions were jocularly swayed hehe, and in the end all decided to respectfully embrace common elf-dom - both our strengths and our fallibility. For this, we thank you all.

This honestly isn't a special thread in internet terms.

People heard facts they didn't like and trolled the thread into oblivion to hide the information that offended them. It's much easier than admitting they are wrong, or bringing evidence to actually support their argument.

[cyxthryth]

I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[w1zard]

what is this thread even about again? feel like this belonged in RnF 85 pages ago.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

what is this thread even about again? feel like this belonged in RnF 85 pages ago.

Your previous post was exactly what this thread is about. Best 4 man caster/priest group.

I agree with your assessment, Shaman/Enchanter/Necromancer/Cleric is probably the best all around choice, and that this thread should have been moved into RnF once the trolls moved in.

We were debating whether or not a Mage should make the list. The argument for Mage was Malo + Charm Break Safety (pet tanking) + DPS.

I showed them the numbers on how Mage DPS isn't that much better than Shaman DPS, and Shaman's also cover the Malo + Charm Break Safety portions quite well. Plus Shamans have a much broader kit to help out in other situations too. Therefore you don't really need to bring a Mage over a Shaman, unless you need CoTH support.

But for some reason people don't understand basic math on these forums. They believe that DPS somehow changes based on being a in a group (even though mob stats don't change based on solo/group status), and you can't math out average DPS in a game literally based on averages. So they trolled the thread into oblivion because they believe their "experience" negates factual mathematical realities.

The provider of the Mage data (Troxx) claims his own data is inaccurate (and theoretically that means Mage DPS is higher), but he consistently refuses to provide "accurate" data. He blames me for not bringing data that fits his arbitrary standards, so he just dismisses it.

My data is here if you are interested: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3497117&postcount=638 .

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/8ete15X.gif

[PlsNoBan]

They believe that DPS somehow changes based on being a in a group

We're talking about DPS from a DoT based class in a group with multiple charm pets and your beloved "data" was you slowly soloing shit. If you can't see how multiple variables in this equation change in a fast killing chain pulling group vs. you soloing mobs then you're a bigger moron than I previously thought (and I previously thought you were a really really big moron)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

We're talking about DPS from a DoT based class in a group with multiple charm pets and your beloved "data" was you slowly soloing shit. If you can't see how multiple variables in this equation change in a fast killing chain pulling group vs. you soloing mobs then you're a bigger moron than I previously thought (and I previously thought you were a really really big moron)

Show us what you think the "variables" are that change in a group. Otherwise you are just leaving it ambiguous because you don't actually have the "variables", and you are hoping to bluff your way through the conversation.

[PlsNoBan]

Show us what you think the "variables" are that change in a group. Otherwise you are just leaving it ambiguous because you don't actually have the "variables", and you are hoping to bluff your way through the conversation.

https://i.imgur.com/bC5VwvT.gif

I'm at a loss for words. You are literally beyond help.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

https://i.imgur.com/bC5VwvT.gif

I'm at a loss for words. You are literally beyond help.

Yup, bluffing your way through:)

Once you reveal what you think the "variables" are, I can easily math it out and show you it doesn't change the averages. Monster stats don't change solo vs. group.

[PlsNoBan]

Yup, bluffing your way through:)

Once you reveal what you think the "variables" are, I can easily math it out and show you it doesn't change the averages. Monster stats don't change solo vs. group.

How about when the charms are eating mobs alive and your idiot dots tick like once or twice per mob like I mentioned like 3 times and you ignored or didn't read at all? You act like you're the only person that's ever played everquest before. I've had a 60 shaman and 50 necro on P99. I know how dot damage in groups works. It fucking sucks dick cause mobs almost always die too quick for them to be efficient. In a group that's chain pulling mobs that die in ~30s or less your DoT DPS is going to be ass and there's no debate or data or math about it. A mage nuking once or twice will beat your dots every single time and not by a small amount. The only way dots can be decent in this scenario is root rotting adds which is fucking stupid.

God damn your ignorance is frustrating

[PlsNoBan]

Not to mention unless you're pulling/killing incredibly slowly you WILL NOT be able to maintain casting bane and pox on every single mob without ever going oom. Canni and torpor are great but not THAT great. The claims you're making are asinine. They aren't sustainable and not realistic in a high dps fast pulling group. Your solo data is garbage.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

How about when the charms are eating mobs alive and your idiot dots tick like once or twice per mob like I mentioned like 3 times and you ignored or didn't read at all? You act like you're the only person that's ever played everquest before. I've had a 60 shaman and 50 necro on P99. I know how dot damage in groups works. It fucking sucks dick cause mobs almost always die too quick for them to be efficient. In a group that's chain pulling mobs that die in ~30s or less your DoT DPS is going to be ass and there's no debate or data or math about it. A mage nuking once or twice will beat your dots every single time and not by a small amount. The only way dots can be decent in this scenario is root rotting adds which is fucking stupid.

God damn your ignorance is frustrating

You didn't read the data then.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3497117&postcount=638

This is DPS assuming the mob dies at an average of 36 seconds per kill, from Troxx's own data.

I am not using DoTs on the mobs that die in 36 seconds.

[PlsNoBan]

You didn't read the data then.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3497117&postcount=638

This is DPS assuming the mob dies at an average of 36 seconds per kill, from Troxx's own data.

I am not using DoTs on the mobs that die in 36 seconds.

Oh you mean the data where the mage is doing 50% more DPS than you? Sounds like we're in agreement I guess. Mage is significantly more damage. Who would've guessed? It's easy to look at 27.5 DPS and act like it's not a big deal but it's literally like 50% more damage than you and I'd wager that's on the low side. I would be shocked if you grouped with a mage for an hour in a fast killing group and were only 27 dps lower overall. But even if you were like I said that's still 50% more and not insignificant. No idea what your talking about with mana spent. Is that 1 nuke for mage 2 nukes for shaman per 36 sec for the duration of a fight? Cause 1 mage nuke isn't 2260 mana and 2 shaman nukes isn't 1724. No idea where you pulled those numbers from. If you're basing it on the time it took you to solo a mob that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard since mobs will be dying way quicker than that in a group. I also assume you didn't account for mod rods. Regardless of your obsession with data and math a mage isn't going to have any considerable mana issues in a group like this with permanent clarity and the ability to rely on pet dps to med through where necessary. Troxx stated he didn't have mana issues all night in the group he posted parses from. Shaman pet is significantly less dps when the shaman has to stop to canni.

Edit for math data (it's off by 0.1 from Troxx's DPS please don't yell at me):
https://i.imgur.com/ns9tjYq.png

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Oh you mean the data where the mage is doing 50% more DPS than you? Sounds like we're in agreement I guess. Mage is significantly more damage. Who would've guessed? It's easy to look at 27.5 DPS and act like it's not a big deal but it's literally like 50% more damage than you and I'd wager that's on the low side. I would be shocked if you grouped with a mage for an hour in a fast killing group and were only 27 dps lower overall. But even if you were like I said that's still 50% more and not insignificant.

When you have 2 Enchanter pets 27 DPS isn't a big deal. A group killing a mob with 8000 HP in 36 seconds is doing 222 DPS already. Changing the DPS to 192 only changes the fight time to 42 seconds per mob.

A Shaman can help the group out in other ways, such as lower downtime between mobs. They are better at assisting with charm breaks, they take less time to re-malo the charmed pets and get back into the fight since they can recover mana faster and malo is better than mala. Buffs and heals reduce the chance of deaths, etc. Shamans are also better when dealing with tough mobs such as Ixiblat Fer.

And again, a Shaman can do 84 DPS by root/rotting two mobs. If a group cares about DPS, they would do everything they can to decrease kill times, which means root/rotting mobs they haven't gotten to yet. If they didn't care about DPS, why would they sweat 27 DPS in a group already doing 160+ DPS just from Enchanter pets?

[PlsNoBan]

When you have 2 Enchanter pets 27 DPS isn't a big deal. A group killing a mob with 8000 HP in 36 seconds is doing 222 DPS already. Changing the DPS to 192 only changes the fight time to 42 seconds per mob.

A Shaman can help the group out in other ways, such as lower downtime between mobs. They are better at assisting with charm breaks, they take less time to re-malo the charmed pets and get back into the fight since they can recover mana faster and malo is better than mala. Buffs and heals reduce the chance of deaths, etc. Shamans are also better when dealing with tough mobs such as Ixiblat Fer.

And again, a Shaman can do 84 DPS by root/rotting two mobs. If a group cares about DPS, they would do everything they can to decrease kill times, which means root/rotting mobs they haven't gotten to yet. If they didn't care about DPS, why would they sweat 27 DPS in a group already doing 160+ DPS just from Enchanter pets?

Sorry mage does 50% more DPS than you. At least you got your unnecessary utility to bring to a group with multiple enchanters and a cleric already. I guess if the enchanters are bad at everquest and the cleric is asleep a shaman could be helpful to correct their mistakes. I was going with the assumption that the players in this hypothetical group weren't bad. If we're assuming bad players then yes bring a shaman instead.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sorry mage does 50% more DPS than you. At least you got your unnecessary utility to bring to a group with multiple enchanters and a cleric already. I guess if the enchanters are bad at everquest and the cleric is asleep a shaman could be helpful to correct their mistakes. I was going with the assumption that the players in this hypothetical group weren't bad. If we're assuming bad players then yes bring a shaman instead.

If the players are good, then they can handle the Shaman root/rotting mobs. At that point the Shaman is at least matching a Mages DPS. If the players are bad, the Shaman is helping to cover mistakes. In both situations the broader toolkit of a Shaman allows for better coverage in any unexpected situation.

[PlsNoBan]

If the players are good, then they can handle the Shaman root/rotting mobs. At that point the Shaman is at least matching a Mages DPS. If the players are bad, the Shaman is helping to cover mistakes. In both situations the broader toolkit of a Shaman allows for better coverage in any unexpected situation.

Nobody wants you root rotting mobs in their group just to do almost as much damage as a mage. Literally nobody. Sorry mage does 50% more DPS than you. If you want I can try to resurrect Brad McQuaid and ask him why he made mages do so much more damage than shamans but I'm not sure it'd help. I realize this has caused you a great deal of distress but I'm afraid you'll just have to get over it at some point.

[PlsNoBan]

Nobody wants you root rotting mobs in their group just to do almost as much damage as a mage. Literally nobody. Sorry mage does 50% more DPS than you. If you want I can try to resurrect Brad McQuaid and ask him why he made mages do so much more damage than shamans but I'm not sure it'd help. I realize this has caused you a great deal of distress but I'm afraid you'll just have to get over it at some point.

Hopefully before you post 500 times about it. Gratz on 400 posts in this thread btw.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You need to answer this simple question:

If a group doesn't care about losing 30+ DPS because they don't want their Shaman root/rotting, why do they care about losing 30 DPS by picking a Shaman over Mage?

[Keebz]

Answer this question:

In what context is root rotting low 40's mobs a productive or interesting thing for 4 level 60 casters to be doing?

It's a trick question. There is not such a context.

[Troxx]

https://c.tenor.com/65eqfUUTk_EAAAAC/lol-roflmao.gif

What a fucking tool …

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Answer this question:

In what context is root rotting low 40's mobs a productive or interesting thing for 4 level 60 casters to be doing?

It's a trick question. There is not such a context.

Exactly! Now you are gettng it after 100 pages lol. This entire thread people kept claiming they want a Mage because their group is chain pulling mobs they can kill in 30 seconds.

Level 60s aren't gong to be doing that, and Shaman is better at camps like Ixiblat Fer and Fungi King because 30 DPS is irrelevant. You want better safety to secure the kill so your group doesn't wipe and lose the camp.

Level 60s aren't going to be chain pulling anything unless they are just topping off XP. Then you can root/rot because the mobs are indeed basically easy level 49 mobs lol.

It only took 100 pages for you to realize the chain pulling argument was silly:) It was the entire crux of arguing for a Mage.

[cyxthryth]

silly:)


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Vexenu]

I'm wondering how much of DSM's stunning obstinacy in this thread is just him looking at this question differently. His stubborn insistence on including the Shaman could be justified if you interpret "best four man all caster group" to mean "pick four level 60 casters who can reliably and safely kill the most high value mobs". Under that interpretation I think there is a fair case to throw in a Shaman.

But I, and I think most others as well, have interpreted best four man caster group to mean "pick four casters to level 1-60 as quickly and effectively as possible while also maintaining maximum kill potential at endgame". It's a much broader definition, and because the Shaman relies so heavily on Torpor which doesn't come until 60 (and at great expense) it's impossible to justify including a Shaman in such a group for that reason alone. The mage or necro win out easily.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'm wondering how much of DSM's stunning obstinacy in this thread is just him looking at this question differently. His stubborn insistence on including the Shaman could be justified if you interpret "best four man all caster group" to mean "pick four level 60 casters who can reliably and safely kill the most high value mobs". Under that interpretation I think there is a fair case to throw in a Shaman.

But I, and I think most others as well, have interpreted best four man caster group to mean "pick four casters to level 1-60 as quickly and effectively as possible while also maintaining maximum kill potential at endgame". It's a much broader definition, and because the Shaman relies so heavily on Torpor which doesn't come until 60 (and at great expense) it's impossible to justify including a Shaman in such a group for that reason alone. The mage or necro win out easily.

Um, I have said multiple times in this thread I am looking at the entire playtime, including level 60 item farming. Remember, OP didn't add any specifiers such as "fastest leveling group".

As I keep saying, a 4 man caster group is going to level extremely fast, with or without a Mage. It is up to your group to decide whether you want to level a bit faster with a Mage, at the cost of the Mage basically being unecessary at the end.

[cyxthryth]

I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[PlsNoBan]

Mage basically being unecessary at the end.

Yeah 50% more DPS is really unnecessary and useless. Sorry about your delusion and the fact that mages do a lot more damage than your shaman. Take it up with Brad. Nobody here can help you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yeah 50% more DPS is really unnecessary and useless. Sorry about your delusion and the fact that mages do a lot more damage than your shaman. Take it up with Brad. Nobody here can help you.

You already admitted groups aren't gong to be chain pulling mobs at 60, which was the entire argument for Mages:) Nobody cares about 30 DPS when doing level 60 item farming like Fungi King.

[cyxthryth]

I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[PlsNoBan]

You already admitted groups aren't gong to be chain pulling mobs at 60, which was the entire argument for Mages:) Nobody cares about 30 DPS when doing level 60 item farming like Fungi King.

Sorry you have to deal with the fact that mages do 50% more DPS than shamans. I know this is difficult. I'm confident you'll find a way to cope with it eventually!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sorry you have to deal with the fact that mages do 50% more DPS than shamans. I know this is difficult. I'm confident you'll find a way to cope with it eventually!

All of your points have been rebutted. You have now accepted my data, since you are using it, and you have admitted level 60 groups are not going to be chain pulling mobs. Chain pulling mobs was the crux of your argument for Mages.

It is up to the reader to decide whether they want the Mage for a slightly faster leveling experience, or the Shaman for a superior level 60 item farming experience. Since a 4 man caster group is going to be leveling insanely fast already, the answer is pretty clear. OP didn't pick a Mage:)

[Toxigen]

No one is farming Fungi King with 4 people, nevermind 4 casters.

Hope this helps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No one is farming Fungi King with 4 people, nevermind 4 casters.

Hope this helps.

OP might, since he made a 4 man caster group:) Not sure why you are trying to discourage OP from farming good items.

Hope this helps.

[Vexenu]

1-59: Shaman is complete dead weight, basically just a SoW bot, bringing mostly unneeded utility. Mage is extremely strong 1-50 with no gear requirements, softens a bit 50+ but still outputting enormous DPS and requiring very modest gear. Necro is very strong 1-50 and adds an extreme level of utility in the form of snare, FD pulling, twitch and Screaming Terror for charm breaks while also putting out good DPS with the pet or undead charm the entire time. Falls off a little 50+ but remains very strong and provides enormous utility still.

There's basically no reason to ever pick the Shaman unless you are already all geared out at 60 and trying to four man something really hard that you need to slow ASAP and which you can also leverage the Shaman DoTs on. The Necro adds so much more value over the life of the group from 1-60 it isn't even funny.

[PlsNoBan]

1-59: Shaman is complete dead weight, basically just a SoW bot, bringing mostly unneeded utility. Mage is extremely strong 1-50 with no gear requirements, softens a bit 50+ but still outputting enormous DPS and requiring very modest gear. Necro is very strong 1-50 and adds an extreme level of utility in the form of snare, FD pulling, twitch and Screaming Terror for charm breaks while also putting out good DPS with the pet or undead charm the entire time. Falls off a little 50+ but remains very strong and provides enormous utility still.

There's basically no reason to ever pick the Shaman unless you are already all geared out at 60 and trying to four man something really hard that you need to slow ASAP and which you can also leverage the Shaman DoTs on. The Necro adds so much more value over the life of the group from 1-60 it isn't even funny.

If you want to base your entire 1-60 leveling and gearing up experience around being able to kill Ixiblat then pick shaman. Otherwise pick a 3rd enc or a mage and do 50% more dps (sorry DSM it's not my fault mages do so much more damage)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

1-59: Shaman is complete dead weight, basically just a SoW bot, bringing mostly unneeded utility. Mage is extremely strong 1-50 with no gear requirements, softens a bit 50+ but still outputting enormous DPS and requiring very modest gear. Necro is very strong 1-50 and adds an extreme level of utility in the form of snare, FD pulling, twitch and Screaming Terror for charm breaks while also putting out good DPS with the pet or undead charm the entire time. Falls off a little 50+ but remains very strong and provides enormous utility still.

There's basically no reason to ever pick the Shaman unless you are already all geared out at 60 and trying to four man something really hard that you need to slow ASAP and which you can also leverage the Shaman DoTs on. The Necro adds so much more value over the life of the group from 1-60 it isn't even funny.

If you want to go down that route, Enchanter is also basically dead weight until level 29 or so when they get Clarity. Their charm isn't very good, they have a low mana pool, and the mobs are just really easy to kill already. Same with Clerics. You are killing mobs so fast you don't need a ton of healing.

Once you get into the 40+ range Shaman will do just fine, especially if they have a JBB.

That is the reality. At low levels most classes are "dead weight" because they don't have their full toolkits and their skill levels suck. The reason why it doesn't matter is because mobs level 1-39 are tuned for groups with Fine Steel weapons and leather armor lol. A 4 man group of rogues could tear through levels 1-40 just switching who is tanking and bandaging hehe.

[PlsNoBan]

If you want to go down that route, Enchanter is also basically dead weight until level 29 or so when they get Clarity. Their charm isn't very good, they have a low mana pool, and the mobs are just really easy to kill already. Same with Clerics. You are killing mobs so fast you don't need a ton of healing.

Once you get into the 40+ range Shaman will do just fine, especially if they have a JBB.

That is the reality. At low levels most classes are "dead weight" because they don't have their full toolkits and their skill levels suck. The reason why it doesn't matter is because mobs level 1-39 are tuned for groups with Fine Steel weapons and leather armor lol. A 4 man group of rogues could tear through levels 1-40 just switching who is tanking and bandaging hehe.

Charm is strong much earlier than 29. I leveled an enc/enc duo with a friend of mine up to low 50s on blue. We were duoing all of lguk scryer camp by ourselves with zero mana issues and no deaths the entire time in our low/mid 20s. It was some of the fastest xp we got the entire time we leveled that duo. We were able to kill more/faster than the average full group of people at that camp without a charm. I'm convinced you legitimately have no idea what you're talking about

[Ripqozko]

If you want to go down that route, Enchanter is also basically dead weight until level 29 or so when they get Clarity. Their charm isn't very good, they have a low mana pool, and the mobs are just really easy to kill already. Same with Clerics. You are killing mobs so fast you don't need a ton of healing.

Once you get into the 40+ range Shaman will do just fine, especially if they have a JBB.

That is the reality. At low levels most classes are "dead weight" because they don't have their full toolkits and their skill levels suck. The reason why it doesn't matter is because mobs level 1-39 are tuned for groups with Fine Steel weapons and leather armor lol. A 4 man group of rogues could tear through levels 1-40 just switching who is tanking and bandaging hehe.

Charm is just fine at 12, what are you smoking .

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Charm is strong much earlier than 29. I leveled an enc/enc duo with a friend of mine up to low 50s. We were duoing all of lguk scryer camp by ourselves with zero mana issues and no deaths the entire time in our low/mid 20s. I'm convinced you legitimately have no idea what you're talking about

I have leveled an Enchanter from 1-30 myself, with raid gear:) My level 24 Warrior with a fraction of the gear is killing mobs way faster. He can just face tank 3 mobs in guk no problem, and keep going afterwards.

[PlsNoBan]

I have leveled an Enchanter from 1-30 myself, with raid gear:) My level 24 Warrior with a fraction of the gear is killing mobs way faster. He can just face tank 3 mobs in guk no problem, and keep going afterwards.

Welp that settles it. You're either EXTREMELY bad at EQ or have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and making shit up. You've said a LOT of dumb shit. This takes the cake.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Welp that settles it. You're either EXTREMELY bad at EQ or have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and making shit up. You've said a LOT of dumb shit. This takes the cake.

Lol when you can't with with facts or logic, you go back to insults. You have already conceded all of your previous points, and are trying to argue about low level xping, which is dirt easy with any 4 man group. Sorry you lost so hard.

[Toxigen]

I have leveled an Enchanter from 1-30 myself, with raid gear:) My level 24 Warrior with a fraction of the gear is killing mobs way faster. He can just face tank 3 mobs in guk no problem, and keep going afterwards.

Well folks there it is.

lmao

[DeathsSilkyMist]

[Fri Aug 19 09:51:25 2022] a glyphed sentry says, 'Do not underestimate the might of Mistmoore!'
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:25 2022] A glyphed sentry kicks a glyphed guard for 8 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:25 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:29 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 53 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:32 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 19 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:35 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 21 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:37 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:43 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 8 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:46 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 19 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:49 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:49 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 34 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:52 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 16 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:55 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 24 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:58 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 6 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:04 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 11 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:04 2022] A glyphed sentry kicks a glyphed guard for 12 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:07 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:10 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 50 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:12 2022] A glyphed sentry bashes a glyphed guard for 16 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:13 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 29 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:18 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 48 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:19 2022] A glyphed sentry bashes a glyphed guard for 15 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:21 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 32 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:24 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 27 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:27 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:33 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:39 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:42 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:42 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 24 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:45 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 29 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:48 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 19 points of damage.


960 damage over 1 minute and 22 seconds = 11.7 DPS.


[Sat Aug 13 21:38:14 2022] Auto attack on.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:16 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 67 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:17 2022] You kick a froglok ton shaman for 3 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:19 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 52 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:22 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:22 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 33 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:24 2022] You kick a froglok ton shaman for 6 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:29 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:29 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:32 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:33 2022] You bash a froglok ton shaman for 4 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:39 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:45 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 29 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:49 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 61 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:52 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 52 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:55 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:55 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:59 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 23 points of damage.


671 damage over 45 seconds = 15 DPS.

And this isn't showing any charm fails, med time, etc.

Don't you feel silly right now?

[cd288]

Lol at saying a Warrior with a fraction of gear is a more efficient leveling class than a raid geared Enchanter

Note to any new players reading this thread: Do not listen to that

[PlsNoBan]

960 damage over 1 minute and 22 seconds = 11.7 DPS.



671 damage over 45 seconds = 15 DPS.

And this isn't showing any charm fails, med time, etc.

Don't you feel silly right now?

No mention if pet and/or warrior was hasted. Level of charm not mentioned. Level of target mob not mentioned. Other misc buffs on warrior or charm not mentioned. Gear of warrior not specified. Thanks for the logs tho super helpful :rolleyes:

P.S. Charm pets don't need to sit/bandage to recover HP. You just charm a new one and regain all your mana while medding and it slaughters everything. Downtime charm soloing will be WAAAAAAAAY lower than soloing as a warrior without fungi. I can't believe I have to spell this shit out for you. This is the dumbest shit you've said so far. I'm kind of impressed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No mention if pet and/or warrior was hasted. Level of charm not mentioned. Level of target mob not mentioned. Other misc buffs on warrior or charm not mentioned. Gear of warrior not specified. Thanks for the logs tho super helpful :rolleyes:

P.S. Charm pets don't need to sit/bandage to recover HP. You just charm a new one and regain all your mana while medding and it slaughters everything. Downtime charm soloing will be WAAAAAAAAY lower than soloing as a warrior without fungi. I can't believe I have to spell this shit out for you. This is the dumbest shit you've said so far. I'm kind of impressed.

I don't have a Fungi, and you wouldn't keep your charmed pets hasted at this low level. You just mow through mobs and kill the charmed pet at the end so you get more XP.

I keep posting evidence, you keep posting nonsense.

Lol at saying a Warrior with a fraction of gear is a more efficient leveling class than a raid geared Enchanter

Note to any new players reading this thread: Do not listen to that

You missed the part where I said low levels lol. Way to put words in my mouth:) Sorry you can't accept facts.

[cd288]

No mention if pet and/or warrior was hasted. Level of charm not mentioned. Level of target mob not mentioned. Other misc buffs on warrior or charm not mentioned. Gear of warrior not specified. Thanks for the logs tho super helpful :rolleyes:

P.S. Charm pets don't need to sit/bandage to recover HP. You just charm a new one and regain all your mana while medding and it slaughters everything. Downtime charm soloing will be WAAAAAAAAY lower than soloing as a warrior without fungi. I can't believe I have to spell this shit out for you. This is the dumbest shit you've said so far. I'm kind of impressed.

Yeah the warrior argument just lost him all credibility

[PlsNoBan]

Yeah the warrior argument just lost him all credibility

He had no credibility to begin with. This just sunk him deeper into the completely clueless idiot hole. At least this statement should be VERY VERY VERY obvious to any reader that he doesn't know what he's talking about and can be dismissed accordingly.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yeah the warrior argument just lost him all credibility

It didn't, because the facts are still true lol. Low level charming isn't as good as people think compared to player DPS. Remember, low level mobs are hitting less often and less hard.

He had no credibility to begin with. This just sunk him deeper into the completely clueless idiot hole. At least this statement should be VERY VERY VERY obvious to any reader that he doesn't know what he's talking about and can be dismissed accordingly.

Mad. Sad. Bad. Sorry you lost the argument so completely, after conceding all of your points:)

[cyxthryth]

the facts are still true


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[PlsNoBan]

I have leveled an Enchanter from 1-30 myself, with raid gear:) My level 24 Warrior with a fraction of the gear is killing mobs way faster. He can just face tank 3 mobs in guk no problem, and keep going afterwards.

https://i.imgur.com/KqgfKND.gif

[PlsNoBan]

I honestly can't believe you went as far off the rails as to suggest a warrior solos better than an enchanter lol. Have you just been trolling this whole time? You can't really believe that right?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I honestly can't believe you went as far off the rails as to suggest a warrior solos better than an enchanter lol. Have you just been trolling this whole time? You can't really believe that right?

You missed the part where we were talking about low levels. You know, 1-30. Seriously, do you not read? Where did I say a level 60 Warrior is out-soloing a level 60 Enchanter, for example?

Back to insults. Every point you make I counter with data. Yikes.

[Ripqozko]

Yea we definitely making 200 posts

[cyxthryth]

Back to insults. Yikes.

You have done nothing but insult me (and seemingly argue from bad faith) yes, that is certainly a fact. You have not maintained civility nor attempted to actually discuss with me. Yikes.


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

the facts are still true

[PlsNoBan]

You missed the part where we were talking about low levels. You know, 1-30. Seriously, do you not read?

Back to insults. Every point you make I counter with data. Yikes.

1-12 MAYBE

12-60 enchanter runs circles around warriors for soloing. It's not even fucking close. If it is you're doing something very very wrong OR the warrior is HEAVILY twinked.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

1-12 MAYBE

12-60 enchanter runs circles around warriors for soloing. It's not even fucking close. If it is you're doing something very very wrong OR the warrior is HEAVILY twinked.

1-30, as the data shows. A Level 27 mob (A glpyphed Sentry) is doing 11.7 DPS.

My level 24 Warrior is doing 15 DPS with Wurmslayer, Fist of Zek, and Silver Chitin Hand Wraps. That's like 3k worth of items lol.

[Kich867]

I honestly can't believe you went as far off the rails as to suggest a warrior solos better than an enchanter lol. Have you just been trolling this whole time? You can't really believe that right?

I mean this thread is lulzy but, at low levels? Absolutely. Warriors are unkillable death machines. Gear out a level 1 warrior, you can chain farm blues non-stop up until your 30's and even then if you have really good gear you can absolutely continue to chain farm blues.

I soloed a warrior from 1-43 with only gear I quested for / found myself. The first 28 levels or so were very fast. And that was in basically Banded armor I had to stop and raise blacksmithing for, a Bullsmasher I spent a day or so questing for, like real bullshit gear.

In real gear? If people don't think a mildly twinked warrior can't solo they've certainly never actually thought about/tried it, it's fuckin stupid easy. Crippling blows melt shit and your AC/HP pool is huge.

Comparatively, my wizard who did the same route leveled slower because I could only kill 2 mobs before waiting for my mana to return. I know enchanters can charm kite so that's obviously better, but I think you're underestimating how good warriors are at soloing.

[PlsNoBan]

1-30, as the data shows. A Level 27 mob (A glpyphed Sentry) is doing 11.7 DPS.

My level 24 Warrior is doing 15 DPS with Wurmslayer, Fist of Zek, and Silver Chitin Hand Wraps. That's like 3k worth of items lol.

Ahh so a mildly twinked warrior with a haste item vs a charm pet that you admittedly didn't even cast haste on. This doesn't even factor in that charming done right has 0 downtime and no matter how many you can kill eventually the warrior will have to sit/bandage regularly to keep going.

Got it. Excellent data.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I mean this thread is lulzy but, at low levels? Absolutely. Warriors are unkillable death machines. Gear out a level 1 warrior, you can chain farm blues non-stop up until your 30's and even then if you have really good gear you can absolutely continue to chain farm blues.

I soloed a warrior from 1-43 with only gear I quested for / found myself. The first 28 levels or so were very fast. And that was in basically Banded armor I had to stop and raise blacksmithing for, a Bullsmasher I spent a day or so questing for, like real bullshit gear.

In real gear? If people don't think a mildly twinked warrior can't solo they've certainly never actually thought about/tried it, it's fuckin stupid easy. Crippling blows melt shit and your AC/HP pool is huge.

Comparatively, my wizard who did the same route leveled slower because I could only kill 2 mobs before waiting for my mana to return. I know enchanters can charm kite so that's obviously better, but I think you're underestimating how good warriors are at soloing.

Yup. The data I showed didn't even have crits/crips. I could do much higher DPS if I get lucky.

[Sat Aug 13 21:14:28 2022] lands a Crippling Blow!(204)

At level 24 I can crippling blow higher than a level 60 water pet's backstab:)

[Ripqozko]

I mean this thread is lulzy but, at low levels? Absolutely. Warriors are unkillable death machines. Gear out a level 1 warrior, you can chain farm blues non-stop up until your 30's and even then if you have really good gear you can absolutely continue to chain farm blues.

I soloed a warrior from 1-43 with only gear I quested for / found myself. The first 28 levels or so were very fast. And that was in basically Banded armor I had to stop and raise blacksmithing for, a Bullsmasher I spent a day or so questing for, like real bullshit gear.

In real gear? If people don't think a mildly twinked warrior can't solo they've certainly never actually thought about/tried it, it's fuckin stupid easy. Crippling blows melt shit and your AC/HP pool is huge.

Comparatively, my wizard who did the same route leveled slower because I could only kill 2 mobs before waiting for my mana to return. I know enchanters can charm kite so that's obviously better, but I think you're underestimating how good warriors are at soloing.

He prob was charming wrong, line up mobs with root, charm and let multiple beat on it, break nuke and repeat. War can't fuck with 3 mobs beating on it.

Edit: it's not what pet does, it's what mobs do to pet

[DeathsSilkyMist]

He prob was charming wrong, line up mobs with root, charm and let multiple beat on it, break nuke and repeat. War can't fuck with 3 mobs beating on it.

Show us how you charm on a low level Enchanter and post it.

Too bad you won't, since you are just a troll:)

Ahh so a mildly twinked warrior with a haste item vs a charm pet that you admittedly didn't even cast haste on. This doesn't even factor in that charming done right has 0 downtime and no matter how many you can kill eventually the warrior will have to sit/bandage regularly to keep going.

Got it. Excellent data.

You don't haste pets that low level silly. You just kill the pets and recharm for max XP.

Honestly, now you have to resort to the argument that OP is creating this group from scratch with 0 plat to start lol. Who doesn't have 3k these days to buy a few decent items?

[PlsNoBan]

You don't haste pets that low level silly. You just kill the pets and recharm for max XP.

If you're playing that strategy the charm is disposable and you just grab new ones constantly. It will obviously not do incredible dps if you do nothing to buff it at low level. What are you trying to prove? You can do slightly more dps for a few kills then bandage for half an hour?

Fucking clown

[Ripqozko]

Show us how you charm on a low level Enchanter and post it.

Too bad you won't, since you are just a troll:)



You don't haste pets that low level silly. You just kill the pets and recharm for max XP.

Honestly, now you have to resort to the argument that OP is creating this group from scratch with 0 plat to start lol. Who doesn't have 3k these days to buy a few decent items?

I just told you how

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I just told you how

No you didn't. Please post evidence for how much DPS your charmed pets are doing at low level. You have nothing other than trolling.

If you're playing that strategy the charm is disposable and you just grab new ones constantly. It will obviously not do incredible dps if you do nothing to buff it at low level. What are you trying to prove? You can do slightly more dps for a few kills then bandage for half an hour?

Fucking clown

I just keep proving you wrong, and you just keep insulting me.

[Ripqozko]

No you didn't. Please post evidence for how much DPS your charmed pets are doing at low level. You have nothing other than trolling.



I just keep proving you wrong, and you just keep insulting me.

It's not the pets dps, you root multiple and charm and let it get beat on

[cyxthryth]

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It's not the pets dps, you root multiple and charm and let it get beat on

And that also costs a lot more mana, time to setup, you can get charm breaks, root breaks, etc. It is up to you to show how much average DPS you get from that strategy vs. having a Warrior simply beat things down hehe. As I said before, my DPS wasn't even including crits/crips. I can deal 204 damage with a Wurmslayer as a crippling blow at 24.

[cyxthryth]

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Kich867]

It's not the pets dps, you root multiple and charm and let it get beat on

I've never leveled an enchanter before--where do you do this at low levels?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I've never leveled an enchanter before--where do you do this at low levels?

Honestly you don't. I wouldn't suggest it. Having 4 mobs agroed on you at low levels is quite risky as a cloth caster hehe. You get some unlucky root/charm breaks and you are frantically aoe stunning trying to get away. Remember your channeling skill is lower, so you get more spell interrupts in the lower levels when you are getting hit. You also have a lower mana pool, so you are running out of mana a lot faster. You get more fizzles too.

[Ripqozko]

Honestly you don't. I wouldn't suggest it. Having 4 mobs agroed on you at low levels is quite risky as a cloth caster hehe. You get some unlucky root/charm breaks and you are frantically aoe stunning trying to get away. Remember your channeling skill is lower, so you get more spell interrupts in the lower levels when you are getting hit. You also have a lower mana pool, so you are running out of mana a lot faster. You get more fizzles too.

Potg lasts a millenia mana isn't an issue

[cyxthryth]

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Potg lasts a millenia mana isn't an issue

Again, it is up to you to prove your claim that your method would be vastly superior to just having a Warrior in the low levels. If we are saying that the group is being buffed by high levels, then the Warrior is going to be hasted, have regen, HP buffs, STR buff, etc.

My DPS numbers for my Warrior did NOT have spell haste. It was simply the 22% worn haste from SCHW.

[cyxthryth]

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Ripqozko]

Again, it is up to you to prove your claim that your method would be vastly superior to just having a Warrior in the low levels. If we are saying that the group is being buffed by high levels, then the Warrior is going to be hasted, have regen, HP buffs, etc.

My DPS numbers for my Warrior did NOT have spell haste. It was simply the 22% worn haste from SCHW.

You have no fungi or buffs you will have downtime

If you do, enchanter might as well too

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You have no fungi or buffs you will have downtime

If you do, enchanter might as well too

Remember the 4 man group has a cleric for healing:)

[cyxthryth]

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Ripqozko]

Remember the 4 man group has a cleric for healing:)

Oh we aren't soloing now?

Edit then you can have cleric druid do the roots

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Oh we aren't soloing now?

Lol again, the DPS numbers aren't changing based on solo vs. group. Where do you think this magical change in DPS occurs? The level 27 charmed mob I showed you is still doing 11.7 DPS, and the Warrior is still doing 15 DPS (higher with crippling blow/crits).

[cyxthryth]

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Ripqozko]

Lol again, the DPS numbers aren't changing based on solo vs. group. Where do you think this magical change in DPS occurs? The level 27 charmed mob I showed you is still doing 11.7 DPS, and the Warrior is still doing 15 DPS.

But it is, you can have 3 mobs beat on 1 pet that's 11.7 x3 plus pet dmg, break and nuke. If ya not solo mana is not an issue others can root

[DeathsSilkyMist]

But it is, you can have 3 mobs beat on 1 pet that's 11.7 x3 plus pet dog, break and nuke. If ya not solo mana is not an issue others can root

Being in a group doesn't change how much mana/time it takes to root 3 mobs and charm 1 pet, plus the root breaks/charm breaks that can occur. There is no Necro twitching, or Mage making mod/rods. You are too low level.

It's faster and better just to churn through mobs at that level.

[cyxthryth]

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Ripqozko]

Being in a group doesn't change how much mana/time it takes to root 3 mobs and charm 1 pet, plus the root breaks/charm breaks that can occur. There is no Necro twitching, or Mage making mod/rods. You are too low level.

It's faster and better just to churn through mobs at that level.

You have 4 that can root, root only has to last 30sec, you even said you prefer to snare, they only got to beat on it for like 15sec then break and nuke

[Kich867]

How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?

You know the quotes you posted have you calling this dude a little bitch and then the next quote is you saying that you haven't been uncivil :confused: haha.

[cyxthryth]

You know the quotes you posted have you calling this dude a little bitch and then the next quote is you saying that you haven't been uncivil :confused: haha.

I made a factual statement that he stopped replying (like a little bitch); I didn't call him a little bitch. Is your confusion cleared up?

[PlsNoBan]

Hey guys did you know warriors solo better than enchanters? I'm DSM and I definitely do not have autism

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You have 4 that can root, root only has to last 30sec, you even said you prefer to snare, they only got to beat on it for like 15sec then break and nuke

I didn't say I preferred snare. Again, it is up to you to prove your strategy is better at low levels. I have been leveling my low level characters. Casters are not quite as good at that level range due to lower channeling (more interrupts), lower mana, worse buffs, more fizzling, etc.

Again, this whole argument of "classes are dead weight" at low levels is silly, because a lot of classes are at low levels. Luckily mobs are so easy it doesn't matter, and you can just churn through them anyway. A Warrior is doing more DPS than a charmed pet, because low level mobs are weak.

[cyxthryth]

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Kich867]

I made a factual statement that he stopped replying (like a little bitch); I didn't call him a little bitch. Is your confusion cleared up?

Not really :D , that sounds like some real middle school nerd shit to say. What is this, the adult version of a little kid put their finger in someones face saying "I'm not touching you!" haha.

[Ripqozko]

Not really :D , that sounds like some real middle school nerd shit to say. What is this, the adult version of a little kid put their finger in someones face saying "I'm not touching you!" haha.

Found the VQ guildy

[cyxthryth]

Not really :D , that sounds like some real middle school nerd shit to say. What is this, the adult version of a little kid put their finger in someones face saying "I'm not touching you!" haha.

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Toxigen]

dude. lol.

[cd288]

Being in a group doesn't change how much mana/time it takes to root 3 mobs and charm 1 pet, plus the root breaks/charm breaks that can occur. There is no Necro twitching, or Mage making mod/rods. You are too low level.

It's faster and better just to churn through mobs at that level.

Lol Cleric with no mana regen trying to heal a warrior getting beat on non stop. Ok

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Lol Cleric with no mana regen trying to heal a warrior getting beat on non stop. Ok

My Warrior loses very little life. At low levels AC is a beast. Plus with three other group members you are just slaughtering mobs before they can do much.

[cyxthryth]

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[cd288]

My Warrior loses very little life. At low levels AC is a beast. Plus with three other group members you are just slaughtering mobs before they can do much.

Sure Jan

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sure Jan

You could always show counter-evidence:) But you probably won't. I am not sure why you are doubting me, when you can't even prove your own point.

[cd288]

You could always show counter-evidence:) But you probably won't. I am not sure why you are doubting me, when you can't even prove your own point.

Because there's no point that even needs to be proven as everyone else has detailed lol. You're simply just wrong.

At this point I just assume you are trolling because no one could be this wrong but also so adamant that they are right. It's unreal lol

[cyxthryth]

You could always show counter-evidence:) But you probably won't.

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Because there's no point that even needs to be proven as everyone else has detailed lol. You're simply just wrong.

At this point I just assume you are trolling because no one could be this wrong but also so adamant that they are right. It's unreal lol

"I am right and you are wrong" is not an argument. I keep providing actual game data, you keep trolling lol.

[cyxthryth]

"I am right and you are wrong" is not an argument. I keep providing actual game data, you keep trolling lol.

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[cd288]

"I am right and you are wrong" is not an argument. I keep providing actual game data, you keep trolling lol.

Go read through the read. Oh that's right, whenever anyone gives evidence to prove you wrong you either insult them or stop responding to them lmao

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Go read through the read. Oh that's right, whenever anyone gives evidence to prove you wrong you either insult them or stop responding to them lmao

What evidence have you provided to show an Enchanter pet out DPSing a Warrior from levels 12-30, for example?

I am only insulting people who insulted me first lol. You can read the post history. You aren't looking very good here:)

[Ripqozko]

Join VQ today

[cyxthryth]

What evidence have you provided


All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Kich867]

Lol Cleric with no mana regen trying to heal a warrior getting beat on non stop. Ok

Yea, again, idk much about the rest of what you're all talking about, but soloing on a warrior is something I'm pretty familiar with. This was when combat binding was a thing, which obviously impacts it, but you can offset that entirely with real gear and do the same thing since your TTK and hp/ac is going to be so much higher.

My guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/EchoLocation8%27s_Solo_Warrior_Guide

A cleric/warrior duo you really wouldn't need to heal the warrior much. Ideally you keep the warrior somewhere within 40% hp.

Just pick an outdoor zone like EK and chain pull singles forever. And even then, it's potentially not as good to have a cleric around soaking half your xp just to reduce your downtime once in awhile.

If you stacked HP/AC, had a haste item, had solid twink weapons, warriors will absolutely chainsaw through mobs. It's boring as fuck but once you hit 28 you can go to KFC and stay there single pulling aviaks for a real long time. That being said this is where I'd imagine your leveling pace slows down compared to a lot of casters as their spell list fills out more and they have more flexibility in what they can handle.

[cyxthryth]

Yea, again, idk much about the rest of what you're all talking about

Welcome to the civil discussion! Please review the previous posts (they are viewable by all) if you wish to equip yourself with knowledge regarding what the rest of us are talking about.

[Toxigen]

Sure go single pull outdoors while an enchanter does the highest ZEM dungeons and is level 50 before the war hits 35.

DSM, you need to walk away from the keyboard for a bit bub.

[Troxx]

I have leveled an Enchanter from 1-30 myself, with raid gear:) My level 24 Warrior with a fraction of the gear is killing mobs way faster. He can just face tank 3 mobs in guk no problem, and keep going afterwards.

https://c.tenor.com/1zwnX1PKJ00AAAAC/gordon-ramsey.gif

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sure go single pull outdoors while an enchanter does the highest ZEM dungeons and is level 50 before the war hits 35.

DSM, you need to walk away from the keyboard for a bit bub.

Show the numbers please:) You don't get to say "I am right and you are wrong". It's not a valid argument.

There are like 8 people here against me, and not one of them have shown any evidence, which is easy to get. It's really, really sad.

I was talking abut levels 12-30. I am not sure why you are talking about getting to level 50.

[cyxthryth]

You don't get to say "I am right and you are wrong". It's not a valid argument.

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Toxigen]

Show the numbers please:) You don't get to say "I am right and you are wrong". It's not a valid argument.

Yeah, except I just did. Sorry you don't got gud enc mechanics, hope this helps.

I'll de-level Toxigen to 5. You de-level your war to 5. We'll take a screenshot of our /played at the start of our "born again" level 5 and race to 50. Lowest /played wins.

PS: my time will be roughly 1/4 of your wars.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yeah, except I just did. Sorry you don't got gud enc mechanics, hope this helps.

I'll de-level Toxigen to 5. You de-level your war to 5. We'll take a screenshot of our /played at the start of our "born again" level 5 and race to 50. Lowest /played wins.

PS: my time will be roughly 1/4 of your wars.

Prove your strategy is better. Just saying "my strategy is better" isn't an argument.

Here, let me do it. "My strategy is better". See? I can do it too. Where are we now?

Lol remember I said levels 12-30. Why are you talking about leveling to 50?

Nobody here has said a level 50 Warrior is going to be better than a level 50 Enchanter.

My point was simply that if you are going to argue "certain classes at lower levels are dead weight", that is also true of Enchanters and Clerics when compared to other classes that do better at low levels, like Warriors, Mages, Necros, etc.

When you hit the 40s, the "dead weight" classes come into their own. This includes Enchanters, Clerics, and Shamans. It's just silly to say a Shaman does nothing levels 1-59 lol. It just depends on the level range. Shamans do indeed suck from levels 1-30 or so, but again Enchanters and Clerics aren't that much better in the same level range.

[cyxthryth]

Where are we now?

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[PlsNoBan]

Hey guys did you know warriors solo better than enchanters? I'm DSM and I definitely do not have autism

dude. lol.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

PlsNoBan has lost so completely he has to take everything out of context. He has also reverted to using the word "autism" as an insult. He was doing so well too, I thought he had stopped using it when he realized 1 of every 3 posts he made in the last 100 had the word in it as a derogatory remark, because he can't provide an actual argument, or evidence.

[Keebz]

Exactly! Now you are gettng it after 100 pages lol. This entire thread people kept claiming they want a Mage because their group is chain pulling mobs they can kill in 30 seconds.

Level 60s aren't gong to be doing that, and Shaman is better at camps like Ixiblat Fer and Fungi King because 30 DPS is irrelevant. You want better safety to secure the kill so your group doesn't wipe and lose the camp.


Nice gaslighting. You wasted 100 pages arguing nonsense about your cherry-picked logs and "math". Now if you want to talk about the original topic, you have to actually make an argument for shaman. They don't win by default. Sorry bud.

[cd288]

What evidence have you provided to show an Enchanter pet out DPSing a Warrior from levels 12-30, for example?

I am only insulting people who insulted me first lol. You can read the post history. You aren't looking very good here:)

Well the simplest point is that you showed one parse. This is a random number generator game. So sure you could have a warrior out DPS occasionally. You showed one parse of a warrior barely out DPSing the charmed pet. Go do it like 1,000 times and see how many times that happens.

As other commenters noted, you also failed to supply a multitude of relevant information (probably because it would be used to disprove your point). For example, the specific gear the warrior has on, the warrior's stats, the buffs the warrior has on (if any), as well as failing to provide the level/AC/class of both enemy mobs and the level/class of the charmed pet along with whether it had any gear equipped or whether it had any buffs.

Knowing you and your obsession with being right all the time I wouldn't be surprised if you slowed the mob before charming it lmao. Maybe you should provide all that info and then do a video of you out DPSing the charmed pet 100 times in a row.

At any rate if you want further evidence go google it. Charmed pet DPS has been proven for two decades to generally be better than player DPS unless in certain instances where the player is well geared and well buffed compared to the level of content they're doing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Well the simplest point is that you showed one parse. This is a random number generator game. So sure you could have a warrior out DPS occasionally. You showed one parse of a warrior barely out DPSing the charmed pet. Go do it like 1,000 times and see how many times that happens.

As other commenters noted, you also failed to supply a multitude of relevant information (probably because it would be used to disprove your point). For example, the specific gear the warrior has on, the warrior's stats, the buffs the warrior has on (if any), as well as failing to provide the level/AC/class of both enemy mobs and the level/class of the charmed pet along with whether it had any gear equipped or whether it had any buffs.

Knowing you and your obsession with being right all the time I wouldn't be surprised if you slowed the mob before charming it lmao. Maybe you should provide all that info and then do a video of you out DPSing the charmed pet 100 times in a row.

At any rate if you want further evidence go google it. Charmed pet DPS has been proven for two decades to generally be better than player DPS unless in certain instances where the player is well geared and well buffed compared to the level of content they're doing.

You showed zero parses. So how is your information better? Please provide this googled information. It should be easy to get if it's there:)

[PlsNoBan]

Every time you post is evidence of autism which I point out. You just don't like the evidence so you dismiss it.

Warriors solo better than enchanters LOL

Can't stop laughing

[cd288]

Nice gaslighting. You wasted 100 pages arguing nonsense about your cherry-picked logs and "math". Now if you want to talk about the original topic, you have to actually make an argument for shaman. They don't win by default. Sorry bud.

DSM switches arguments faster than Trump does about the Mar-a-Lago raid

[cyxthryth]

can't provide an actual argument, or evidence.

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM switches arguments faster than Trump does about the Mar-a-Lago raid

Not really. I am debating like 8 people at a time. They are all wrong, and can't even individually stay on topic. They have to keep switching arguments to try and prove they are right. Post history is quite clear:)

[cd288]

You showed zero parses. So how is your information better? Please provide this googled information. It should be easy to get if it's there:)

Thank you for proving my point. When someone raises issues with your "evidence" you just ignore their points.

Are you willing to provide all that info and then stream 100 kills on your warrior out DPSing the charmed pet? Waiting for the stream!

[cyxthryth]

Post history is quite clear:)

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Thank you for proving my point. When someone raises issues with your "evidence" you just ignore their points.

Are you willing to provide all that info and then stream 100 kills on your warrior out DPSing the charmed pet? Waiting for the stream!

I didn't ignore the points at all. You just say "google it", and assume that's it.

Here, I'll do it too. "Google it". Now we are equal. Except I have parses and you don't.

[PlsNoBan]

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.






How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?

Do you think he's eventually going to respond if you post the same thing enough?

[cyxthryth]

I didn't ignore the points at all

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[PlsNoBan]

I didn't ignore the points at all. You just say "google it", and assume that's it.

Here, I'll do it too. "Google it". Now we are equal. Except I have parses and you don't.

What many other posters here have is common sense. A trait which you unfortunately seem to lack. It works wonders in situations where data is incomplete/faulty or just not available. I think if you can work on developing this trait it could help you a lot.

[cd288]

I didn't ignore the points at all. You just say "google it", and assume that's it.

Here, I'll do it too. "Google it". Now we are equal. Except I have parses and you don't.

But what about all the other points where I asked for all the info about gear, level, buffs etc.? Are you going to provide that info for your parse?

How about I get a bunch of people on this thread to all throw a bunch of plat into a pot. Then we take a charmed pet and a warrior with basic gear, both unbuffed, and we do 100 kills on each. If you can out DPS the charmed pet, let's say 80% of the time, then you win the plat. Otherwise you have to pay an equal amount of plat to be divided up amongst the people on the other side. Would you take that bet?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

What many other posters here have is common sense. A trait which you unfortunately seem to lack. It works wonders in situations where data is incomplete/faulty or just not available. I think if you can work on developing this trait it could help you a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum is a fallacy, and not an argument.

It's funny how people keep thinking I am the only one who has to provide evidence here. So far I have given more in-game evidence than all of the people debating me combined.

Why don't you post a bit of data in response? If it's so easy to prove (and common sense), between the 8 or more of you this thread would have ended ages ago lol.

But what about all the other points where I asked for all the info about gear, level, buffs etc.? Are you going to provide that info for your parse?

How about I get a bunch of people on this thread to all throw a bunch of plat into a pot. Then we take a charmed pet and a warrior with basic gear, both unbuffed, and we do 100 kills on each. If you can out DPS the charmed pet, let's say 80% of the time, then you win the plat. Otherwise you have to pay an equal amount of plat to be divided up amongst the people on the other side. Would you take that bet?

That would be great! Finally we could get some data instead of just people trolling lol. I don't care if I am right or wrong, I just want the correct information out there. Either outcome works great for me:)

I won't hold my breath though, since the posters here generally seem to prefer trolling over actual data.

[cyxthryth]

I just want the correct information out there. :)

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[cd288]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum is a fallacy, and not an argument.

It's funny how people keep thinking I am the only one who has to provide evidence here. So far I have given more in-game evidence than all of the people debating me combined.

Why don't you post a bit of data in response? If it's so easy to prove (and common sense), between the 8 or more of you this thread would have ended ages ago lol.



That would be great! Finally we could get some data instead of just people trolling lol. I don't care if I am right or wrong, I just want the correct information out there. Either outcome works great for me:)

I won't hold my breath though, since the posters here generally seem to prefer trolling over actual data.

Ok if anyone on this thread would like to do that, PM me and we can all discuss parameters such as weapons etc.

In the meantime what about the info about your parse

[Troxx]

Not really. I am debating like 8 people at a time. They are all wrong, and can't even individually stay on topic. They have to keep switching arguments to try and prove they are right. Post history is quite clear:)

https://c.tenor.com/NJOKd58lxcQAAAAC/idiot-sandwich-not-smart.gif

[Kich867]

I know you all want to clown on this dude but, surely it's not that hot of a take to say that at low levels a twinked melee character levels faster than a twinked caster character?

Fight this dude all you want about the shaman thing, I agree that mages can basically go catatonic and contribute a lot of dps to a group, but how the fuck anyone is suggesting a twinked melee character doesn't grind through the first ~25-30 levels faster than a caster seems insane. Melee has always had the advantage with gear early on.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ok if anyone on this thread would like to do that, PM me and we can all discuss parameters such as weapons etc.

In the meantime what about the info about your parse

I already posted it hehe. People really just don't read much. I have a level 24 Gnome Warrior with Wurmslayer, Fist of Zek, and Silver Chitin Hand Wraps on in that parse. Pretty cheap gear to be honest.

I know you all want to clown on this dude but, surely it's not that hot of a take to say that at low levels a twinked melee character levels faster than a twinked caster character?

Fight this dude all you want about the shaman thing, I agree that mages can basically go catatonic and contribute a lot of dps to a group, but how the fuck anyone is suggesting a twinked melee character doesn't grind through the first ~25-30 levels faster than a caster seems insane. Melee has always had the advantage with gear early on.

They just want to troll, it's really that simple.

[cyxthryth]

it's really that simple.

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[cd288]

I know you all want to clown on this dude but, surely it's not that hot of a take to say that at low levels a twinked melee character levels faster than a twinked caster character?

Fight this dude all you want about the shaman thing, I agree that mages can basically go catatonic and contribute a lot of dps to a group, but how the fuck anyone is suggesting a twinked melee character doesn't grind through the first ~25-30 levels faster than a caster seems insane. Melee has always had the advantage with gear early on.

Because he said he wasn't twinked lol. That was the whole point.

Then he come's out and says he has a weapon costing over 1.5k and a haste item lol. As well as Fist of Zek which is not expensive simply because of how much it's dropped, but is a +20 STR item. If you want to talk about a twinked warrior at low levels that's a different conversation from "warriors are better dps than charmed mobs"

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Because he said he wasn't twinked lol. That was the whole point.

Then he come's out and says he has a weapon costing over 1.5k and a haste item lol. As well as Fist of Zek which is not expensive simply because of how much it's dropped, but is a +20 STR item. If you want to talk about a twinked warrior at low levels that's a different conversation from "warriors are better dps than charmed mobs"

I am on blue. Prices are much cheaper there. Wurmslayer + SCHW + Fisk of Zek is like 2k total. What world are you living in where people don't have 2k to spend on an alt on a 10 year old emulated server?

You must have a really strict idea about what "twinking" is. I also never said I was parsing with fine steel weapons lol. Not sure where you got that idea. But I am not running around with a CoF, Fungi, Blade of Carnage, etc. and I can out DPS a charmed mob. This really isn't difficult lol.

You are basically now saying OP's group must be starting out naked, with no items or platinum. Nobody ever agreed to these parameters, nor did OP state this is what his group was doing lol.

[Kich867]

Because he said he wasn't twinked lol. That was the whole point.

Then he come's out and says he has a weapon costing over 1.5k and a haste item lol. As well as Fist of Zek which is not expensive simply because of how much it's dropped, but is a +20 STR item. If you want to talk about a twinked warrior at low levels that's a different conversation from "warriors are better dps than charmed mobs"

To be clear I think he said he had a raid geared enchanter and a warrior in much worse gear, but, right, "much worse" in that context has a wide range of meanings.

My twinked SK alt is "much better" geared than my warrior that I soloed with, his gear is still shit, but it is much better than the warriors haha.

[cyxthryth]

This really isn't difficult lol.

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

To be clear I think he said he had a raid geared enchanter and a warrior in much worse gear, but, right, "much worse" in that context has a wide range of meanings.

My twinked SK alt is "much better" geared than my warrior that I soloed with, his gear is still shit, but it is much better than the warriors haha.

That is correct. I am talking about an Enchanter with things like Z Heart vs. a Warrior with Wurmslayer, Fist of Zek, and Silver Chitin Hand Wraps. That is a much different level of gear lol.

[PlsNoBan]

Shamans do as much dmg as mages and warriors out solo enchanters in autismquest. Not in everquest tho.

[cyxthryth]

That is correct.

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Kich867]

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?

Dude you gotta get unrustled, you've let this dude get so deep in your brain he's bangin your corpus callosum. It's not worth it.

[cyxthryth]

Dude you gotta get unrustled, you've let this dude get so deep in your brain he's bangin your corpus callosum. It's not worth it.

Why do you think I am rustled? I am simply attempting to continue the civil discussion(s). It is not my fault if DSM opts out / concedes in silence despite my attempts.

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Kich867]

Why do you think I am rustled?

He almost certainly ignored you a long time ago, he can't see what you're saying. Relax your shoulders, it helps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

He almost certainly ignored you a long time ago, he can't see what you're saying. Relax your shoulders, it helps.

I didn't block him. I have never blocked a single user. I always believe people can redeem themselves.

But his post history shows how silly he is. He had 3 posts when he started trolling on this thread, and now he is up to 80 hehe.

As you say, his middle school antics are so bad, even the people on his own side ignore him:) He is digging his own grave by literally flooding his entire post history with nonsense.

[cyxthryth]

post history shows how silly he is

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[PlsNoBan]

I have leveled an Enchanter from 1-30 myself, with raid gear:) My level 24 Warrior with a fraction of the gear is killing mobs way faster. He can just face tank 3 mobs in guk no problem, and keep going afterwards.


https://i.imgur.com/ctil19v.gif

[DeathsSilkyMist]

[Fri Aug 19 09:51:25 2022] a glyphed sentry says, 'Do not underestimate the might of Mistmoore!'
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:25 2022] A glyphed sentry kicks a glyphed guard for 8 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:25 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:29 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 53 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:32 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 19 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:35 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 21 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:37 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:43 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 8 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:46 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 19 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:49 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:49 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 34 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:52 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 16 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:55 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 24 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:51:58 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 6 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:04 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 11 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:04 2022] A glyphed sentry kicks a glyphed guard for 12 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:07 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:10 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 50 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:12 2022] A glyphed sentry bashes a glyphed guard for 16 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:13 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 29 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:18 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 48 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:19 2022] A glyphed sentry bashes a glyphed guard for 15 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:21 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 32 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:24 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 27 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:27 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:33 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:39 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:42 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 55 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:42 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 24 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:45 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 29 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 19 09:52:48 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed guard for 19 points of damage.


960 damage over 1 minute and 22 seconds = 11.7 DPS. (Level 27 Charmed Pet)

[Sat Aug 13 21:38:14 2022] Auto attack on.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:16 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 67 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:17 2022] You kick a froglok ton shaman for 3 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:19 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 52 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:22 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:22 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 33 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:24 2022] You kick a froglok ton shaman for 6 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:29 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:29 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:32 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:33 2022] You bash a froglok ton shaman for 4 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:39 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:45 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 29 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:49 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 61 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:52 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 52 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:55 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 50 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:55 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Sat Aug 13 21:38:59 2022] You slash a froglok ton shaman for 23 points of damage.

671 damage over 45 seconds = 15 DPS. (Level 24 Warrior)

And this isn't showing any charm fails, med time, etc.

Don't you feel silly right now?

The data just keeps proving you wrong PlsNoBan lol. Remember, the level range is 12-30, not your silly straw men.

[cyxthryth]

The data

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[PlsNoBan]

The data just keeps proving you wrong PlsNoBan lol. Remember, the level range is 12-30, not your silly straw men.

Your data is trash as usual. Unhasted pet vs twinked warrior and you continue to ignore that the warrior will need to stop to bandage/sit and the enchanter played properly will have almost no downtime. But sure keep quoting your irrelevant bullshit. You've done it for 120 pages and 400+ posts why stop now?

I'll just be over here laughing and making fun of how dumb your points are and how bad your "data" and "evidence" are.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Your data is trash as usual. Unhasted pet vs twinked warrior and you continue to ignore that the warrior will need to stop to bandage/sit and the enchanter played properly will have almost no downtime. But sure keep quoting your irrelevant bullshit. You've done it for 120 pages and 400+ posts why stop now?

I'll just be over here laughing and making fun of how dumb your points are and how bad your "data" and "evidence" are.

Lol 2k worth of gear is twinked? Also, if the pet is hasted, why wouldn't the Warrior be?

As usual, the only trash is your troll posting. Zero evidence posted in 100+ posts. 1 in 3 posts of yours contain the word "autism" or "autistic" though. Going for a record?:)

[PlsNoBan]

Lol 2k worth of gear is twinked?

As usual, the only trash is your troll posting.

That gear is only that cheap cause P99 has been going for over a decade most of which in the exact same era. The economy is totally and completely fucked. Those items are way cheaper than they really should be just because the server is topheavy and everything has been farmed to fucking death. We were never meant to be playing Velious with no resets on the same server for 7+ years. That same gear in early 2001 would cost a fortune. It's twinked whether you like it or not. There's varying degrees of twinking but just because its cheap on p99 doesn't mean its not twink gear. Your lvl 27 or whatever warrior would have no way of obtaining that shit in a SSF scenario.

Edit: Autism. For my ratio.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That gear is only that cheap cause P99 has been going for over a decade most of which in the exact same era. The economy is totally and completely fucked. Those items are way cheaper than they really should be just because the server is topheavy and everything has been farmed to fucking death. We were never meant to be playing Velious with no resets on the same server for 7+ years. That same gear in early 2001 would cost a fortune. It's twinked whether you like it or not. There's varying degrees of twinking but just because its cheap on p99 doesn't mean its not twink gear. Your lvl 27 or whatever warrior would have no way of obtaining that shit in a SSF scenario.

Edit: Autism. For my ratio.

Why must the standard be something that doesn't exist on P99? We are talking about P99 today lol. Not P99 years ago, not P99 when Green started, Not Live 1999-2001 etc. You do know this isn't off-topic, right?

You are really grasping here. You have to keep changing the parameters of the argument because you have yet to win one point. When did OP said he was starting his group 5 years ago?

[PlsNoBan]

Why must the standard be something that doesn't exist on P99? We are talking about P99 today lol. Not P99 years ago, not P99 when Green started, etc.

You are really grasping here. You have to keep changing the parameters of the argument because you have yet to win one point. When did OP said he was starting his group 5 years ago?

This has nothing to do with OP whatsoever. We've strayed so far from the initial subject of this post. You made a hilariously stupid comment about warriors soloing better than enchanters before lvl 29 and (rightly so) everyone made fun of you. We're OBVIOUSLY no longer talking about "Best 4 person all caster/priest group" while discussing your dumb warrior soloing things. Can you at least try to keep up?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This has nothing to do with OP whatsoever. We've strayed so far from the initial subject of this post. You made a hilariously stupid comment about warriors soloing better than enchanters before lvl 29 and (rightly so) everyone made fun of you. We're OBVIOUSLY no longer talking about "Best 4 person all caster/priest group" while discussing your dumb warrior soloing things. Can you at least try to keep up?

It does. OP is asking about creating a group now. Not 5 years ago. Try to keep up:) Why you would bring that point up at all is a mystery.

As usual, you trolled me and were proven wrong. You got mad and trolled harder lol. You are still wrong.

[PlsNoBan]

If this server keeps going another 20 years and fungi tunics cost 200pp is that no longer a twink item? Doesn't improve your characters power significantly cause its cheap?

I feel like I'm talking to a toddler

[cyxthryth]

Try to keep up:)

For anyone needing a recap, the current facts are as follows:

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If this server keeps going another 20 years and fungi tunics cost 200pp is that no longer a twink item? Doesn't improve your characters power significantly cause its cheap?

I feel like I'm talking to a toddler

Yes. If Fungi Tunic is 200pp, everybody would have one. At that point you can't really remove it from the equation, unless the topic is specifically "best group assuming we don't buy any items and self farm". That isn't the topic, and never has been.

[PlsNoBan]

https://i.imgur.com/L0MyNFd.gif

[cyxthryth]

the topic

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The only silliness is from you PlsNoBan. To try and win a single point, you are now trying to claim this topic has been about self-find only groups lol.

[cyxthryth]

The only silliness is from you PlsNoBan

Then why have you called me silly multiple times in multiple threads (including this one) in which all I did was state truthful facts and ask simple questions?

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[PlsNoBan]

The only silliness is from you PlsNoBan. To try and win a single point, you are now trying to claim this topic has been about self-find only groups lol.

https://i.imgur.com/COVfT6Q.gif

[Gloomlord]

I mean, it's so damn simple to figure out. If 2 enchanters and 1 cleric are chainsawing through mobs with 2 charms, then how does a shaman casting dots, which won't even reach full duration, on the mobs being killed mean anything? CH also completely outdoes Torpor here, so that's not an argument either.

Why has DSM decided to be one of the most childish people I've ever seen on a forum and debate otherwise when even a person with average skill can see this is wrong?

Threads this long should be about some interesting topic -- not some idiot unable to admit the truth.

[Ripqozko]

Join VQ and speak with DSM daily, doesn’t that sound like fun

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I mean, it's so damn simple to figure out. If 2 enchanters and 1 cleric are chainsawing through mobs with 2 charms, then how does a shaman casting dots, which won't even reach full duration, on the mobs being killed mean anything? CH also completely outdoes Torpor here, so that's not an argument either.

Why has DSM decided to be one of the most childish people I've ever seen on a forum and debate otherwise when even a person with average skill can see this is wrong?

Threads this long should be about some interesting topic -- not some idiot unable to admit the truth.

The only childish people here are the trolls, like yourself. I post evidence and debate with logic. If it's such an obvious thing to prove, why haven't you or someone else posted data? It should be trivial to prove me wrong.

The answer is simple, the trolls probably know they will get the same data. The math isn't hard hehe. But since they are too childish to admit they are wrong, they continue to troll. Its easier, and they can try to save face.

You are not even reading my arguments correctly. Where am I DoTing mobs that are dying in 30 seconds due to Enchanter pets? https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3497117&postcount=638

[cyxthryth]

data

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[PlsNoBan]

I mean, it's so damn simple to figure out. If 2 enchanters and 1 cleric are chainsawing through mobs with 2 charms, then how does a shaman casting dots, which won't even reach full duration, on the mobs being killed mean anything?

Yea he changed gears to saying he would nuke as a shaman on fast dying mobs and pointed out he "only" does 27 less dps than a mage using his (probably faulty) data. I had to point out to him that a difference of 27 dps is fairly large when the top end is 82 dps. Troxx's mage did literally 50% more DPS than him using his own data which is very likely skewed in his favor. Then when I pointed this out he rotated to "But muh utility outweighs the damage. Damage doesn't matter cuz charms"

He's literally impossible to have a reasonable argument with

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The only people who are impossible to reason with are the people who think they can say "I am right, you are wrong, and I don't have to prove it".

Don't blame me for not accepting such a fallacious argument. Troxx could have proved me wrong days ago with more accurate parse data lol. You could have too:)

I have provided more data than all of the opposition combined. There isn't any evidence from the opposition to disprove my data, other than just saying "I don't like it, so it must be wrong". That is also fallacious hehe.

[cyxthryth]

You are not even reading my arguments correctly. Where am I DoTing mobs that are dying in 30 seconds due to Enchanter pets? https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3497117&postcount=638

You did not post data / evidence of your Shaman DPSing in a group with Enchanter pets nor ANY other players as was requested of you, multiple times by multiple people in this thread - therefore, your data does not include Enchanter pets. It's quite simple, really. I bet you feel "silly" asking where are the mobs dying to Enchanter pets in your data or "argument" now. :)

For anyone who needs a recap:

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Karanis]

DSM: dude you don't haste charm pets at low levels idiot

also DSM: being in a group doesn't change dps at all, my warrior's dps is still superior to charm pet dps

me: (imagining a world where an enchanter that's grouped with just about anyone, ISN'T hasting AND weaponizing their pet, absolutely crushing warrior dps)

18524

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM: dude you don't haste charm pets at low levels idiot

also DSM: being in a group doesn't change dps at all, my warrior's dps is still superior to charm pet dps

me: (imagining a world where an enchanter that's grouped with just about anyone, ISN'T hasting AND weaponizing their pet, absolutely crushing warrior dps)

18524

Nice strawman. We are talking about levels 12-30, where your charmed pet is dying quickly and getting killed for XP. Also, if the Charmed pet is spell hasted, then so is the Warrior, so both would get a boost to DPS. My Warrior wasn't spell hasted either. This really isn't hard.

[PlsNoBan]

Nice strawman. We are talking about levels 12-30, where your charmed pet is dying quickly and getting killed for XP. Also, if the Charmed pet is spell hasted, then so is the Warrior, so both would get a boost to DPS. My Warrior wasn't spell hasted either. This really isn't hard.

It was item hasted though. Did your charm have a muzzle or other item haste? Or is your data useless trash again?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It was item hasted though. Did your charm have a muzzle or other item haste? Or is your data useless trash again?

What level do Mages get Muzzle? 56? Oh yeah, that isn't in the level range of 12-30:)

I have never seen a level 20 Enchanter give their pet a permanent haste item like tolapumj Robe. Mob HP is simply too low, so it's very easy to lose.

[PlsNoBan]

What level do Mages get Muzzle? 56? Oh yeah, that isn't in the level range of 12-30:)

I have never seen a level 20 Enchanter give their pet a permanent haste item like tolapumj Robe. Mob HP is simply too low, so it's very easy to lose.

Oh yea I forgot wurmslayer and SCHW are lvl 12 items my bad

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Oh yea I forgot wurmslayer and SCHW are lvl 12 items my bad

Yes they are, since most people on this server can afford 2k for an alt:) tolapumj is 1.5k by itself, and very easy to lose on a low HP mob.

[PlsNoBan]

Yes they are, since most people on this server can afford 2k for an alt:) tolapumj is 1.5k by itself, and very easy to lose on a low HP mob.

Yeah totally. No way an enc could get a muzzle from a mag in EC before going to xp cause that's a high lvl spell. Warrior can use high lvl gear tho. Very fair and non biased data u got there

[cyxthryth]

We are talking about

We (read: the rest of us, everybody but you) were explicitly and specifically talking about Shaman vs Mage in the context of DPSing in a high level fast-paced killing DPS group, and while you have made hundreds of posts as replies to this subject in this thread, you've unfortunately (still) provided zero relevant evidence/data/parses (read: evidence/data/parses that matches the description of what we [read: the rest of us; everybody but you] were talking about) - you may not understand this or you may be intentionally arguing from bad faith, neither scenario (nor how you feel about it) changes these facts.

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[slard271]

I think if we can harness the energy going into this thread we can solve world hunger. Or mine bitcoin. Or solve the self-induced energy crisis plaguing the planet. Or something.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yeah totally. No way an enc could get a muzzle from a mag in EC before going to xp cause that's a high lvl spell. Warrior can use high lvl gear tho. Very fair and non biased data u got there

You are really grasping here. You are going to be losing masks quickly, assuming you don't log and lose them. Again, I haven't seen anybody go that hard for level 20 as an Enchanter.

But lets say the mob had 11% haste from muzzle. The mobs DPS would go up to 13DPS. It's still lower than 15DPS, and Warriors can crit/crippling blow, which I didn't include.

Since my Warrior wasn't spell hasted, he would get buffed too with spell haste, so the DPS difference wouldn't change in that regard.

[cyxthryth]

I think if we can harness the energy going into this thread we can solve world hunger. Or mine bitcoin. Or solve the self-induced energy crisis plaguing the planet. Or something.

All I have done is make factual statements or ask simple questions. I do not know whether DSM is incapable of discussing or "arguing" civilly or what his reasons are for continuing to ignore my fact-filled simple-question-posing posts directed toward him (I am asking him, repeatedly), but he has not demonstrated the capability to discuss or "argue" civilly in his post history nor in this thread - which I submit (both of, as well as my own post history so that the context of replies [or lack thereof] make sense) as evidence - and he has provided no counterevidence despite multiple direct requests (from myself) asking him to provide it (or any [direct, rather than calling me a troll in response to someone else] reply at all).

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

[I]I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Karanis]

An enchanter that's grouped 12-30 absolutely can and should haste and at least torch their pet, doesn't matter if you have haste also, your dps is going to get smoked.

Also, if you have a goblin ring and you're losing pet gear you're doing it wrong, and before you say OMG that's a 5k item, I didn't have a 5k item in my parse! That's fine, we can grant you whatever 5k item you want in this hypothetical.

[Karanis]

Another thing, you don't need a tola robe on a low level enchanter pet for said pet to pump dps, mithril 2h+torch or book works fine, and is almost triple the haste a muzzle gives.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

An enchanter that's grouped 12-30 absolutely can and should haste and at least torch their pet, doesn't matter if you have haste also, your dps is going to get smoked.

Also, if you have a goblin ring and you're losing pet gear you're doing it wrong, and before you say OMG that's a 5k item, I didn't have a 5k item in my parse! That's fine, we can grant you whatever 5k item you want in this hypothetical.

I have no problem for the Enchanter having gaz ring. I am not the person making arbitrary gear restrictions hehe. The issue is simply at low levels you are going to be losing torches/muzzles at a higher rate, and spending more mana maintaining haste due to it's lower duration, how fast pets die, and how slow you regen mana at that level. You are assuming 100% coverage, which is going to be tough.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Another thing, you don't need a tola robe on a low level enchanter pet for said pet to pump dps, mithril 2h+torch or book works fine, and is almost triple the haste a muzzle gives.

Its the same problem as robe, too easy to lose at low levels hehe. And its lore, so your out of luck if you lose it.

[Karanis]

Again, if you have a goblin ring, you're not going to be losing your pet gear, pretty much ever, assuming you know what you're doing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Again, if you have a goblin ring, you're not going to be losing your pet gear, pretty much ever, assuming you know what you're doing.

It happens, and more often at lower levels because it is very easy for pets to die due to low HP. An uncalled train would easily do it, and is much more common in lower level XP zones.

[Karanis]

If you think a train has possibly aggroed you or pet, or you see your pet take a chunk of damage, you break your charm immediately. Sure pets at low levels die much faster than 50+ for example, but they don't just fucking evaporate.

[Karanis]

But regardless of if there's a tiny chance you might lose your pet gear, a properly weaponized/hasted pet is going to smoke your warrior's dps, which seems to have been your main point a couple pages back.

[PatChapp]

I lost my pet gear twice 1-50,couple more times 50-60. It's easy to do,but is mostly a non issue. Couple k back in action.
Most of those instances it was just not worth the headache to crawl down whatever deep hole we died in to recover.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ok. Let's assume perfect play. You never lose your items. 36% haste from robe would change mob DPS from 11.7 to 15.9. A Warrior at perfect play is going to be in crippling blow range at all times. They can easily crippling blow for 200 at level 24. So if I add an average of an extra 100 damage to my parse, the killspeed on my parse would have improved by 7 seconds. So 671 over 38 seconds is 17.6 DPS. Again, I wasn't spell hasted, so both the pet and the Warrior would get the increase in DPS.

[Jibartik]

huh?

[PlsNoBan]

It's not fucking hard to keep something charmed and hasted. A hasted charm with weapons or a torch (that still works right? Haven't enc'd in a while) is going to absolutely demolish your warrior crippling or not

[Vexenu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msDuNZyYAIQ

DSM's math is rapidly approaching Scott Steiner levels.

"The numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you!"

[DeathsSilkyMist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msDuNZyYAIQ

DSM's math is rapidly approaching Scott Steiner levels.

"The numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you!"

Indeed!

Here is some more data. This "a glyphed sentry" (level 27-29) has 37% haste from Alacrity (to simulate Tola Robe), and a torch in offhand:


[Tue Aug 30 19:44:06 2022] a glyphed sentry says 'Do not underestimate the might of Mistmoore!'
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:06 2022] a glyphed sentry tells you, 'Attacking a glyphed warder Master.'
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:07 2022] A glyphed sentry bashes a glyphed warder for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:07 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 34 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:09 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 13 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:09 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:11 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:12 2022] A glyphed sentry bashes a glyphed warder for 13 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:17 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 29 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:18 2022] A glyphed sentry bashes a glyphed warder for 15 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:19 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:21 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:24 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 8 points of damage..
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:28 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:29 2022] A glyphed sentry bashes a glyphed warder for 12 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:30 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 34 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:30 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:30 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:36 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:36 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:45 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 27 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:47 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:49 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:56 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:56 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:58 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 11 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:58 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 40 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:44:58 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 11 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:00 2022] A glyphed sentry bashes a glyphed warder for 16 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:02 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:02 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 48 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:04 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:06 2022] A glyphed sentry kicks a glyphed warder for 6 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:06 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:10 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 45 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:11 2022] A glyphed sentry bashes a glyphed warder for 12 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:12 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 37 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:12 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:15 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 50 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:15 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:17 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 13 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:19 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:23 2022] A glyphed sentry kicks a glyphed warder for 6 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:23 2022] A glyphed sentry punches a glyphed warder for 55 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:23 2022] a glyphed warder has been slain by a glyphed sentry!
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:23 2022] Your faction standing with AgentsofMistmoore could not possibly get any worse.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:23 2022] Your faction standing with KingTearisThex got better.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:23 2022] Your faction standing with LeagueofAntonicanBards got better.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:23 2022] Your faction standing with MayongMistmoore could not possibly get any worse.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:23 2022] Your faction standing with RingofScale got better.
[Tue Aug 30 19:45:23 2022] You gain experience!!

1436 in 1 minute 16 seconds = 18.9 DPS


Here is my 24 Warrior with just 22% worn haste from Silver Chitin Hand Wraps, so he could still be spell hasted. This is an example with crit:


[Tue Aug 30 20:01:30 2022] Auto attack on.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:34 2022] You crush a froglok gaz warrior for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:34 2022] You kick a froglok gaz warrior for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:34 2022] Scores a critical hit!(93)
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:34 2022] You slash a froglok gaz warrior for 93 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:41 2022] You slash a froglok gaz warrior for 13 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:41 2022] You slash a froglok gaz warrior for 23 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:43 2022] You kick a froglok gaz warrior for 6 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:44 2022] You slash a froglok gaz warrior for 50 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:44 2022] You slash a froglok gaz warrior for 28 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:48 2022] You slash a froglok gaz warrior for 65 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:48 2022] Scores a critical hit!(102)
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:48 2022] You slash a froglok gaz warrior for 102 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:50 2022] You kick a froglok gaz warrior for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:51 2022] You slash a froglok gaz warrior for 50 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:51 2022] You have slain a froglok gaz warrior!
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:51 2022] Your faction standing with FrogloksofGuk got worse.
[Tue Aug 30 20:01:51 2022] You gain experience!!

478 in 21 seconds = 22.7 DPS


I just don't understand why this is so difficult to grasp. From levels 1-30 melee classes are pretty dang good with 2k worth of items hehe. My warrior is using Wurmslayer, Fist of Zek, and has Silver Chitin Hand Wraps on.

Since my pet is simulating a Tola robe (worn haste), and my Warrior only has worn haste on, that means both could be hasted with spell haste. This means the difference in DPS wouldn't really change, they would both get a boost.

As I said before, a lot of classes don't have nearly as much power in the early game. Enchanters, Clerics, and Shamans are all somewhat dead weight for the first 30 levels or so. But they are worth leveling up past 30 so you benefit from the power when it matters. For Enchanters specifically, you also need to consider charm breaks when looking at their DPS. RNG can really screw you over, so you aren't always getting maximum DPS. Same with the Warrior, since you aren't always doing crits. Just throwing it out there before people try to talk about it.

[Karanis]

Hmm, I wonder if the sentry being the same level or at BEST 2 levels higher than that warder it's fighting is affecting its dps?

While your 24 warrior is fighting a mob that's level 16-17, hmmmmm.....

[Karanis]

Try running that test with that glyphed sentry fighting something level ~20, or your warrior fighting something level 22-24?

[PlsNoBan]

Hmm, I wonder if the sentry being the same level or at BEST 2 levels higher than that warder it's fighting is affecting its dps?

While your 24 warrior is fighting a mob that's level 16-17, hmmmmm.....

DSM has faulty data that tends to favor whatever he's arguing for? I'm shocked! He also continues to repeatedly ignore the fact that his warrior will inevitably have to bandage/sit to recover and a well played enchanter will not. If they get unlucky they might have to med occasionally but it'll be MUCH MUCH less than a warrior needing to recover HP without a fungi or regen buff. That's okay though let's just ignore facts that go against our narrative.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM has faulty data that tends to favor whatever he's arguing for? I'm shocked! He also continues to repeatedly ignore the fact that his warrior will inevitably have to bandage/sit to recover and a well played enchanter will not. If they get unlucky they might have to med occasionally but it'll be MUCH MUCH less than a warrior needing to recover HP without a fungi or regen buff. That's okay though let's just ignore facts that go against our narrative.

Lol you must get tired of getting proven wrong at every turn. Enchanters also have to meditate and deal with Charm breaks, fizzles, resists, interrupts, etc. It isn't one sided.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Try running that test with that glyphed sentry fighting something level ~20, or your warrior fighting something level 22-24?

Why don't you supply some data for a change?:) So far you have supplied nothing.

[Karanis]

That's what I thought.

Here's some data: an 8 level difference inflates your warrior's dps massively, while fighting even level mobs with the charmed pet cripples its dps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That's what I thought.

Here's some data: an 8 level difference inflates your warrior's dps massively, while fighting even level mobs with the charmed pet cripples its dps.

Prove it with data:) At lower levels, level difference matters less. It's why you can solo yellow mobs during the lower levels, but typically not at higher levels.

[cyxthryth]

data

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

as the data shows.


You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401629&page=37.


How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?


I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.


No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Karanis]

Here's some data: an 8 level difference inflates your warrior's dps massively, while fighting even level mobs with the charmed pet cripples its dps.

Prove it with data:)

If you think those statements are incorrect and/or need to be proven, I really don't know what to tell you. Though based on everything I've read from you in these enormously bloated threads, I really can't say I'm surprised.