How was /list received on Green?

[Byrjun]

I didn't play much when Green first launched so I didn't get to experience the /list system personally, but it sounded reasonable to me.

A few days ago I was camping Verix and I was told to type /list because otherwise I guess someone else could come in and /list themselves and get the loot even though I was the one killing/camping the mob? I'm still not 100% sure how it works.

So this was my first experience with /list and it wasn't exactly positive. The AFK checks occurred way too frequently, there were no messages in chat so I couldn't set up any audio warnings in GINA, and sometimes it'd tell me to type stuff in chat and never give me any response as to whether I did it correctly or not.

I could see this becoming really annoying if I was camping something like a manastone. Normally I'd be able to AFK for 28 minutes between spawns to go make food or whatever, but the /list system seems to just make camping a lot more inconvenient with these random and frequent AFK checks. Why would it matter if I go AFK for 5 minutes in the middle of a mob's respawn, especially if I'm one of the people just waiting on the camp to open up?

If you fail one of these checks, do you just get kicked potentially 10+ hours to the back of the line? Now I'm a bit weary of using this system if a new fresh server launches without any changes to it.

[Coridan]

Yeah. That's the point. It was the only way to stop pricks from monopolizing certain drops, which still happened for some non list items like Summon Corpse and that thing from the Klicnik Queen in MT and NQey

[loramin]

/list 1.0 (as I like to call it) was an amazing innovation.

You have to understand, the only alternatives to it were letting the players handle extremely popular camps like Guise or Manastone on their own (imagine the clusterfuck that would be), or assigning a GM full-time to monitor those camps (which our 100% volunteer project doesn't have the staff to do).

But ... this was their first attempt at "automated GMing", and as you noted it had some rough edges. Personally, my favorite idea for "/list 2.0" is a simple one: make every list random. You get on the list, wait until the mob spawns, and then when the current "top of the list" gets their item, everyone on the list has a chance to randomly become the new "top".

No more AFK checks. No more trading accounts so you can keep a character logged in for a week. No more going days without sleep because you don't know anyone to trade with.

And (most importantly of all, in my opinion), it makes this place more classic. There was nothing on live where you were guaranteed loot in exchange for waiting: that's not how EverQuest is played! Instead, you'd have (essentially) the same thing as in the rest of the game: you show up at a camp, hope to be lucky, and if you aren't lucky ... you keep showing up.

[Byrjun]

Yeah I support the motive behind /list. The issue that I think I have with it is that it seems to punish casual players over more hardcore players since it essentially requires you to sit there with your eyes glued to the screen for hours, when normally you would be able to safely AFK between spawns at a camp.

I'm not sure why the AFK checks have to occur more often than once every 28 minutes at a camp with a 28 minute respawn.

[tadkins]

I liked the idea of /list. The only camp I really went for with it active were the Jboots when they were a Najena drop, but it felt good knowing that I actually had a chance at it without worrying about whether a top guild was going to control the spawn.

[Castle2.0]

Best of a list of terrible ideas, excuse the pun.

Every other idea suggested so far has been even worse. Such is life in Norrath.

[azxten]

The system was abused by automation to be honest. It's the dirty secret of it and this has been mentioned several times. List actually encourages cheating.

[hodjist]

The /list system is terrible. Like was mentioned above, people figured out how to automate the /afk checks so that they could just get on the list and only be active when they were #1 (if even then).

It also forced a situation where people could /list with toons that wouldn't be capable of clearing the camp on their own, but the folks below them on the list would have to clear it for them in order to keep the list moving and have a shot at their item. The beads camp was a good example of this.

In some locations (mostly VP key mobs, but also beads) the limit of the /list area also didn't cover the spawn area of the mobs that dropped the listed item. Imagine being #1 on the beads list but not being able to leave the cave to pull the 7-8 possible spawns close-by for fear of your list timer ticking down.

[sajbert]

/List was a terrible system and fee if anyone I talked to in-game liked it.

It DID succeed at keeping guilds like Seal Team from perma-monopolizing the camp. Everything else about it sucked.

Since you were unable to leave and the drop rates (non-classic I’d wager) were so low it promoted unhealthy if not downright dangerous gameplay sessions for anyone who didn’t account share or cheat (which people did).

It’d have been better had time or number of kills been saved so that you could take a break and return later. This whole system is entirely non-classic anyway.

Currently the list system serves no purpose and is 100% determinental to the game. Why should we have to click checkboxes as VS camp or /list up when we wanna group at Verix?

Please get rid of /list.

[Fammaden]

Yeah one thing I think we could all agree on is those existing lists for VP key items, especially Verix, should be deleted at this stage.

[magnetaress]

Worst idea ever.

[Castle2.0]

A: "People cheated."
B: "Proof?"
A: "My feeling of jealousy because I was unable to get my list item, but others did."

This ^

[YendorLootmonkey]

A: "People cheated."
B: "Proof?"
A: "My feeling of jealousy because I was unable to get my list item, but others did."

This ^

The only list camp I did was the beads camp, and I ended up pulling holgresh outside the cave for 22+ hours straight because I was often the only one with track in the group, so I did it legit... but don't act like there's no proof out there that tools were developed to cheat /list. One can easily be found by googling terms you would expect to have to google.

[Byrjun]

the drop rates (non-classic I’d wager) were so low

Oh they've definitely tinkered with the drop rates. When P99 originally launched the manastone was the common drop which I believe was classic-accurate. But then you ended up with people like Penoy who farmed bags full of the things.

It's seems counter-productive to make these items much rarer than they should be (increasing camp time) while also implementing systems to try to fairly distribute the items. I get that knowledge of the game has a huge impact on things (evil eye wasn't getting farmed anything close to 24/7 back in the day) and that they're trying to control the influx of powerful items into the economy, but it seems like the balance isn't quite there yet.

I'm sure this was already discussed at length years ago (and I missed those discussions) but I'm not sure why they couldn't just limit how many of each item an account can loot within a certain time frame. For example, once you loot a manastone no characters on that account can loot another manastone for 30 days (or whatever). Yes there's ways to get around this by constantly PLing new characters to camp more items but it would still significantly slow down the rate at which a single person can monopolize any particular item.

And while we're at it, get rid of the rule that allows people to give camps away to whoever they want. People should be required to hand off their camp to whoever has been waiting for it the longest. That should just be the way that all camps work.

Doing these two things wouldn't solve the problems entirely but I think they'd go a long way to making the game a bit more healthier and welcoming to people who aren't the uber elite no lifers.

[Fammaden]

Well they already had to change beads to magic because of pickpocketing, might as well make MS lore and no drop also.

[loramin]

Just want to reiterate that switching to randomness solves nearly everything people complain about.

Want to take a break and not sit there for 24+ hours? Great: take your break, and when you come back you have just as much random chance as when you left.

Are people cheating list afk checks? Well, even if they aren't, everyone hated afk checks ... but in a random system, there are no afk checks. Your "afk check" is that you could win the roll, but if you're afk and don't kill the mob in X minutes, there's another roll and you lose your chance.

Is some low-level sitting in the manstone list? Great! If they win the random roll, they have X minutes to kill the mob ... and then if they can't, there's another random roll. Everyone else is only inconvenienced X minutes, and pretty soon people will learn there's no point in having a low-level sit-in line.

Same deal for beads camp: you can sit there and not help, but then there won't be any random rolls and you'll be sitting a long time. Everyone at the camp has a stake in clearing the holgresh, because everyone has a chance of winning the random roll.

Now, I'm not against making these items lore, and obviously the Holgresh /list boundaries could use some improvement, but overall I think the vast majority of /list issues would be solved with a random system.

[red_demonman]

List was flawed in that it required people to unhealthily stay up for over 24hrs to get the item. Some of these lists were hitting 3+ days (manastone) which requires swapping or cheating.

The other issue with the list is the minimum levels. A lot of times you had people show up that just could not manage the camp at level 35, this was more an issue at rubi bp camp.

A lot of this could be mitigated if they wanted to just increase the % chance for the item to drop and keep the current system or replace it with a system that requires whoever is #1 on list to be able to kill it or be removed and allow #2 and beyond to afk.

[PabloEdvardo]

A: "People cheated."
B: "Proof?"
A: "My feeling of jealousy because I was unable to get my list item, but others did."

This ^

This person definitely didn't run a python app with an imaging library that automated inputs after OCRing the dialog or anything.

It's definitely not published out on the internet or anything.

Definitely not! ;)

Obvious cheaters aside, the /list system was the only reason I was able to acquire almost every campable legacy item I wanted to get.

The greatest problems in my opinion aren't with the list system, it's with drop rates. Realizing that being even 6th in a normal group to camp a manastone might take you 24+ hours to get your drop makes you realize how unhealthy the game's drop rates are when played modern day by players who know how valuable the items are.

If p99 wanted to re-create the classic experience they would massively increase drop rates, because nobody was doing these camps for 60 hours back in classic, and for people who didn't account share (like me), having to stay up for 30+ hours at a time for a video game is just asking for a premature IRL death on their hands.

[magnetaress]

Best option is leave items in game (no legacy) . Make them all droppable and lootable in pvp. Make everyone pvp.

[Swish]

List was flawed in that it required people to unhealthily stay up for over 24hrs to get the item.

"Back in the day" if you wanted a cleric epic you were doing this if you weren't in a big guild.

[tadkins]

Leave list in, up the drop rates, address certain issues like with the bead drops spanning the whole zone. It's a good system that just needs some fixes, not be scrapped entirely.

If you show up at the right era in history, invest some time, you deserve a shot at the item imo.

[Zuranthium]

Classic play nice policy (which did not exist until a year into the game's lifespan) dictated that everyone had to take turns, aka everyone "listed" gets to fight the NPC once when its their turn on the list. After killing the NPC or dying you drop to the bottom of the list, and leaving the zone for more than a few minutes (for a reason aside from dying) removes you from the list entirely.

That is preferable to what p99 implemented, but still dumb. Anything aside from a free-for-all goes against the nature of Everquest and how it's supposed to be an immersive fantasy world. You're not playing an MMORPG anymore if you have forced lists. Anything of that nature should be community-created. Players who don't want certain parts of the community angry at them can choose not to compete, while those who do wish to compete are allowed, at the risk of being blacklisted by certain other players.

Camps should not be so static to begin with. The designers said they never intended and did not like people sitting in front of a single NPC all day long. If they had the time to re-code the game to be more dynamic, they would have. NPC's should spawn in different places and in different amounts. Loot tables should fluctuate.

the only alternatives to it were letting the players handle extremely popular camps like Guise or Manastone on their own (imagine the clusterfuck that would be)

It's not a clusterfuck at all, people fight for the kill and whoever gets it is the winner. Very simple.

keeping guilds like Seal Team from perma-monopolizing the camp

Zerg guilds can't monopolizing anything, when the game is coded to allow any focused 6-person group to be able to get the kill.

Traditionally it's just DPS deciding loot rights, but that can be modified to also include aggro generated into the equation. Let the Clerics cast stuns during high priority fights to contribute, Taunt adds something, debuffs add something, melee can pop a discipline, etc.

[loramin]

It's not a clusterfuck at all, people fight for the kill and whoever gets it is the winner. Very simple.

Gee, I wonder if anyone has tried that system already? Oh wait, they did, on Red. How's that server doing? :rolleyes:

But if anyone is curious about the earlier part of Zura's post, you can find it on the wiki: https://wiki.project1999.com/Kunark_Era_Customer_Service_Guidelines#8.2.3_Conte sted_Spawn_Complaints (there's also a separate "Velious Era" version).

The compromise will require all parties to take turns killing the spawn(s). All parties involved in the contested spawn should be instructed to use /random 0 100 to choose a number. The CS Representative then uses /random 0 100. The individual with the closest number to the CS Representative’s number will be next in the rotation. The CS Representative then bases the rest of the rotation order on how close the other parties’ numbers were to theirs. The compromise established by a CS Representative must be objective and not require the CS Representative to choose one customer over another based on subjective criteria. The CS Representative is the arbiter in any disputes in establishing the compromise.

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/U4TFODQ.jpg

[Swish]

Gee, I wonder if anyone has tried that system already? Oh wait, they did, on Red. How's that server doing? :rolleyes:

But if anyone is curious about the earlier part of Zura's post, you can find it on the wiki: https://wiki.project1999.com/Kunark_Era_Customer_Service_Guidelines#8.2.3_Conte sted_Spawn_Complaints (there's also a separate "Velious Era" version).

The only difference is because you can't pvp in the game on blue/green you all take to petitionquest and writing dissertations on 80% accurate recollections of what happened with some emotional/artistic license.

[Tilien]

Just want to reiterate that switching to randomness solves nearly everything people complain about.

Want to take a break and not sit there for 24+ hours? Great: take your break, and when you come back you have just as much random chance as when you left.

Are people cheating list afk checks? Well, even if they aren't, everyone hated afk checks ... but in a random system, there are no afk checks. Your "afk check" is that you could win the roll, but if you're afk and don't kill the mob in X minutes, there's another roll and you lose your chance.

Is some low-level sitting in the manstone list? Great! If they win the random roll, they have X minutes to kill the mob ... and then if they can't, there's another random roll. Everyone else is only inconvenienced X minutes, and pretty soon people will learn there's no point in having a low-level sit-in line.

Same deal for beads camp: you can sit there and not help, but then there won't be any random rolls and you'll be sitting a long time. Everyone at the camp has a stake in clearing the holgresh, because everyone has a chance of winning the random roll.

Now, I'm not against making these items lore, and obviously the Holgresh /list boundaries could use some improvement, but overall I think the vast majority of /list issues would be solved with a random system.


My only problem with this is that different classes can solo different content at different levels (duh). From my experience on Live I could join a group as a cleric and get an equal roll on an item without being able to solo kill level appropriate nameds.

[Solist]

Failing an afk check after 56 hours, at #1, while at my computer, with fraps on, while chatting in group and voice.

System is aids, driving you to the edge of whats healthy and beyond.

Did maybe 500hrs of /list combined soloing, and assisting/getting assistance from others for all the usual camps. Absolutely unhealthy nonsense.

[Ooloo]

As others have mentioned, the list system was about as successful as it could be. It prevented one guild from monopolizing the camps to a significant extent, and everything that made them tedious and awful was also the reason they worked. If you showed up to a camp and there were 15 people on list, that didn't mean you had to wait for 15 drops, you just had to get on the list and wait as people inevitably dropped off early.

Was it miserable? Yes. But I still got two guises and two rubi bps that I almost certainly wouldn't have without /list existing. And it still felt significant and like a real accomplishment. Upping the drop rates or making afk checks less frequent would just be making it a guaranteed loot giveaway, and the reward would feel cheap. Accomplishments not feeling cheap and easy is a fundamental appeal of classic EQ.

I think the notion that they're unhealthy is kind of misguided. Playing this game at all is unhealthy. There's not much difference between lacking the discipline to not sit on the manastone list for 24hrs straight and lacking the discipline to not just play the game in any other way for 24hrs straight. People sacrifice their health to play this game and a myriad of other games all the time, /list or not.

[Castle2.0]

Just want to reiterate that switching to randomness solves nearly everything people complain about.

Want to take a break and not sit there for 24+ hours? Great: take your break, and when you come back you have just as much random chance as when you left.

Are people cheating list afk checks? Well, even if they aren't, everyone hated afk checks ... but in a random system, there are no afk checks. Your "afk check" is that you could win the roll, but if you're afk and don't kill the mob in X minutes, there's another roll and you lose your chance.

Is some low-level sitting in the manstone list? Great! If they win the random roll, they have X minutes to kill the mob ... and then if they can't, there's another random roll. Everyone else is only inconvenienced X minutes, and pretty soon people will learn there's no point in having a low-level sit-in line.

Same deal for beads camp: you can sit there and not help, but then there won't be any random rolls and you'll be sitting a long time. Everyone at the camp has a stake in clearing the holgresh, because everyone has a chance of winning the random roll.

Now, I'm not against making these items lore, and obviously the Holgresh /list boundaries could use some improvement, but overall I think the vast majority of /list issues would be solved with a random system.

This has been discussed before. The answer was no. Move along, pleb.

Failing an afk check after 56 hours, at #1, while at my computer, with fraps on, while chatting in group and voice.

System is aids, driving you to the edge of whats healthy and beyond.

Did maybe 500hrs of /list combined soloing, and assisting/getting assistance from others for all the usual camps. Absolutely unhealthy nonsense. Gnome warrior? I was there when that guy failed at #1. Twas sad, but also epic.

[loramin]

This has been discussed before. The answer was no. Move along, pleb.


A well-detailed, well-reasoned, and insightful rebuttal :rolleyes:

My only problem with this is that different classes can solo different content at different levels (duh). From my experience on Live I could join a group as a cleric and get an equal roll on an item without being able to solo kill level appropriate nameds.

That's a legitimate critique, but it goes beyond /list. The way they've done the rules in general here highly favors soloers over groups, because they reduce things down to the soloer case for simplicity.

A simple example: per the Play Nice Policies (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=364891) a soloer can hold one camp. A group of six players can hold ... one camp.

Clearly, these rules encourage soloing over grouping (six soloers can hold six camps, a group can only hold one). But unfortunately, I don't see a way around it. Supporting groups better (whether for normal camp disputes or auto-GMed /list camps) would seem to add too much complication for our all-volunteer staff.

[Castle2.0]

A well-detailed, well-reasoned, and insightful rebuttal Yes, it was. That's my point lol. I addressed all the hare-brained ideas, it's not worth re-arguing a finished argument: "Why every list change idea is terrible (as simple as possible)" https://project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368086

Conclusion (aka the TL;DR):

You can't change the item stats, drop rate, spawn rate, or difficulty of camp. Removing/reducing AFK checks or physical presence requirements will increase wait times proportionately. Your list idea sucks. Making it easier doesn't make it easier. Go join the "give everyone a [insert list item here]" group - you're just as bad.

[Castle2.0]

A few gems from that thread lol


The List (as it is) is the best we have. It's as fair as it gets.

First come, first served to get on list
No one can cheat you out of your spot on the list
No group or guild can hold the camp or list hostage or totally dominate it so others can't get on
No one can go AFK for extended periods of time
The item cannot be ninja looted
When someone makes it to #1 and it drops, it's 100% their item
When the list item drops, #1 is removed from the list and everyone moves up 1 spot. #1 cannot lie and say the item didn't drop, and keep camping the item.



Drake meme is resposne to people calling for some IP-lock mechanism.

[cd288]

Always funny when people suggest changing it to a system where anyone on the list has a chance to randomly obtain the item, rather than doing it in order. Then you watch those same people log in to raid and rant in Discord/guild chat about certain loot being /random instead of a DKP bid.

[loramin]

Triggered wall of text from Castle 2.0 ... someone who everyone else on the server would point to as an example of the problems with /list

Ok buddy :rolleyes:

[Chortles Snortles]

feelin pretty silly right now i bet

[Castle2.0]

*complains short response isn't "detailed and well-thought-out"*

*gets pointed to a detailed well-thought-out thread from a year ago where his argument was totally destroyed*

*complains about wall of text*


Ya, ok buddy :rolleyes:

[Zuranthium]

Gee, I wonder if anyone has tried that system already? Oh wait, they did, on Red. How's that server doing? :rolleyes:

No that system was not on Red. There are various other reasons why the server declined (Velious sucks, further dev updates were needed). As usual you are useless.

p99 would be far more enjoyable and not lose any popularity if the game was ran with the 1999 mindset.

[loramin]

*gets pointed to a detailed well-thought-out thread from a year ago where his argument was totally destroyed*

Oh yeah, very well thought-out. I saw exactly zero coherent responses to my posts in there ... hell, you couldn't even spell the word "resposne" correctly.

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/18ytA94.png

[loramin]

p99 would be far more enjoyable and not lose any popularity if the game was ran with the 1999 mindset.

The only problem is, we can't, because we don't have paid GMs like they did in '99.

Our 100% volunteer staff is the reason our PnP our different from the classic ones, and why we have things like /list instead of a human being sitting down with the two players contesting the spawn and making them work out a compromise.

[Tunabros]

half of these posts are on ignore

so this cannot be a thoughtful discussion

[Gustoo]

“Legacy “ items should not exist.

Fixes all problems. Fuck your eq 401k

Either not in at all or implemented permanently in a way that makes sense. It literally ruins the entire server progression and is 1000000% unclassic. There was never a time when there was a nerf schedule to live by it’s a dumb EMU contrivance

[Zuranthium]

The only problem is, we can't, because we don't have paid GMs like they did in '99.

Our 100% volunteer staff is the reason our PnP our different from the classic ones, and why we have things like /list instead of a human being sitting down with the two players contesting the spawn and making them work out a compromise.

That is not true whatsoever.

The 1999 era of the game doesn't need any GM intervention at all, aside from stepping in if someone is actively griefing (following a player around wherever they go and killing anything they try to fight). We can also include training into that for p99, even though training was allowed in 1999. If this server was actually classic-minded there would be far LESS work for the GM's.

GM's could instead focus on what they're supposed to be doing - creating dynamic events in the game world. This can include going around the game world daily and spawning extra NPCs to surprise groups and keep them on their toes. (IMO dynamic NPC spawning should ideally be built into Green anyway - give this server updates to improve game quality, while keeping Blue server as the "museum" coding).

If that much better and classic ruleset is not what's going to be used, then at the very least p99 should be using the classic play nice policy. The "list" system already could have incorporated taking turns, exactly as described, and for camps that aren't specifically "listed" the players should be aware to work out rotations on their own. If players do not create a rotation on their own for other camps, and know it's punishable, then it's no different than the workload GM's have to do right now anyway to investigate and punish "kill stealing".

“Legacy “ items should not exist.

Either not in at all or implemented permanently in a way that makes sense. It literally ruins the entire server progression and is 1000000% unclassic.

Yeah, another thing in the long list of changes Green should make to improve gameplay. Manastone on server launch is very dumb indeed. Guise doesn't change gameplay to the same degree but is still dumb.

Rubicite BP should perma drop though, no harm in giving melee a more obtainable small regen boost. HP regen rate in the game is abysmal.

[Ooloo]

The only problem is, we can't, because we don't have paid GMs like they did in '99.

Our 100% volunteer staff is the reason our PnP our different from the classic ones, and why we have things like /list instead of a human being sitting down with the two players contesting the spawn and making them work out a compromise.

GMs "Making them work out a compromise" just resulted in instancing, which is just another form of automated GMing. The version of automated GMing we got is at least still pretty in-spirit with the intent of the whole project. It really is quite a brilliant balance of time investment\sense of reward.

Lists are not "guaranteed loot" at all; for example I was willing to do the guise and rubi BP lists. I wasn't willing to do the manastone list because I knew what it would take, so I didn't get a manastone. And that's fine.

[loramin]

because I knew what it would take, so I didn't get a manastone. And that's fine.

No, it's not fine. The goal of this place is classic EQ, and there's nothing classic about people being guaranteed a manastone if they stay online for days, without sleeping, or by trading accounts.

[Castle2.0]

No, it's not fine. The goal of this place is classic EQ, and there's nothing classic about people being guaranteed a manastone if they stay online for days, without sleeping, or by trading accounts.

If anyone stayed online for days to get a manastone in 1999, they were pretty much guaranteed to get it.

#classic

Another fail by Loramin the Lackluster Logician.

[loramin]

If anyone stayed online for days to get a manastone in 1999, they were pretty much guaranteed to get it.

#classic

Another fail by Loramin the Lackluster Logician.

By that logic, we should have /list on every camp, to make things the most classic! :rolleyes:

Somehow I don't think most people (including the staff) would agree with that though.

[Patrece]

People took turns /q'ing out on accounts. Need to enforce no account sharing or short term IP locks some how.

[Zuranthium]

If anyone stayed online for days to get a manastone in 1999, they were pretty much guaranteed to get it.

Maybe, maybe not.

It would require being able to out-DPS another group, or being able to kill them with a train, or trying to establish a camp and hoping others don't want to compete for it. Or logging in faster than other people after a server downtime.

[Swish]

It's time for a casino bot with a manastone as a possible ultra rare prize. 1k or 10k plat per ticket, let mudflation be damned.

[Chortles Snortles]

By that logic, we should have /list on every camp, to make things the most classic! :rolleyes:

Somehow I don't think most people (including the staff) would agree with that though.

hey guys, i know what the GMS think! JUST TRUST ME OK
(lol)

[cd288]

That is not true whatsoever.

The 1999 era of the game doesn't need any GM intervention at all, aside from stepping in if someone is actively griefing (following a player around wherever they go and killing anything they try to fight). We can also include training into that for p99, even though training was allowed in 1999. If this server was actually classic-minded there would be far LESS work for the GM's.

GM's could instead focus on what they're supposed to be doing - creating dynamic events in the game world. This can include going around the game world daily and spawning extra NPCs to surprise groups and keep them on their toes. (IMO dynamic NPC spawning should ideally be built into Green anyway - give this server updates to improve game quality, while keeping Blue server as the "museum" coding).

If that much better and classic ruleset is not what's going to be used, then at the very least p99 should be using the classic play nice policy. The "list" system already could have incorporated taking turns, exactly as described, and for camps that aren't specifically "listed" the players should be aware to work out rotations on their own. If players do not create a rotation on their own for other camps, and know it's punishable, then it's no different than the workload GM's have to do right now anyway to investigate and punish "kill stealing".



Yeah, another thing in the long list of changes Green should make to improve gameplay. Manastone on server launch is very dumb indeed. Guise doesn't change gameplay to the same degree but is still dumb.

Rubicite BP should perma drop though, no harm in giving melee a more obtainable small regen boost. HP regen rate in the game is abysmal.

Imagine thinking that if /list wasn't implemented you wouldn't have nonstop trains on people camping manastones on Green in order to allow a guild to just take it over lol

[magnetaress]

“Legacy “ items should not exist.

Fixes all problems. Fuck your eq 401k

Either not in at all or implemented permanently in a way that makes sense. It literally ruins the entire server progression and is 1000000% unclassic. There was never a time when there was a nerf schedule to live by it’s a dumb EMU contrivance

This. Back in 1999 no one really knew they'd be removed.

[Zuranthium]

Imagine thinking that if /list wasn't implemented you wouldn't have nonstop trains on people camping manastones on Green in order to allow a guild to just take it over lol

If training is allowed, that guild can be trained too. Nobody can "take it over", as it's a constant battle to hold the position AND to get the kill on the NPC after it spawns. In many ways this is the most exciting gameplay possible in PvE EQ. You need constant awareness and coordination; it creates dynamics that otherwise don't exist.

If training is not allowed, then those people simply get banned. It's not hard. Also note that if Lguk was being fully camped as it eventually was in Classic, there would be hardly anything to train anyway, as people would be constantly killing pretty much everything in the zone. That is what a group should be doing anyway, were the game centered around group vs group play -- people would be moving around killing things for exp and then getting back to the Evil Eye spawn point (or whichever item spawn points they want to try and hit) in time for it to pop.

And finally, if it's decided to have a shit game without any form of actual battling over content and without dynamic gameplay, that doesn't mean /list needs to be different than the Play Nice Policy which existed in 2000 era EQ.

[Fammaden]

“Legacy “ items should not exist.

Fixes all problems. Fuck your eq 401k

Either not in at all or implemented permanently in a way that makes sense. It literally ruins the entire server progression and is 1000000% unclassic. There was never a time when there was a nerf schedule to live by it’s a dumb EMU contrivance

The one thing Gustoo consistently makes any sense about. Could delete all these items tomorrow and the servers would not suffer at all.

[magnetaress]

Imagine the shit show if they only dropped one day a year (legacy items). (Including bind affinity trinkets). They should let ppl bind at TD pots year round too.

List is still a horrible thing.

Also all loot should just be random for whoever tags the mob at least once. Problem solved. Would be more pnp accurate as well. GMs did force players to take turns. Round robin style.. Especially if the players couldn't come to their own agreement. Never awarded sole ownership of a camp. That was more players saying u get camp till x item drops. Then I get camp. Also groups always trumped solo players so ppl always ran 6 deep. Because the larger group also trumped the smaller ones. And players would just combine groups if they could. If you where solo or two ppl at a camp you would often be laughed out of the zone and told to concede to a full group. Not even forced to take turns. GMs where also players (that just couldn't play on the server they GM'd) and treated soloers and shit lords like shit. If you wanted to solo or duo... u had to wait till like 2am off hrs or like 9-5 weekdays to maybe have a slim chance of getting a spot to urself anywhere.

[Tilien]

That's a legitimate critique, but it goes beyond /list. The way they've done the rules in general here highly favors soloers over groups, because they reduce things down to the soloer case for simplicity.

A simple example: per the Play Nice Policies (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=364891) a soloer can hold one camp. A group of six players can hold ... one camp.

Clearly, these rules encourage soloing over grouping (six soloers can hold six camps, a group can only hold one). But unfortunately, I don't see a way around it. Supporting groups better (whether for normal camp disputes or auto-GMed /list camps) would seem to add too much complication for our all-volunteer staff.


I agree p99 promotes soloing more than grouping overall. I think a 2 tier list could be implemented in a rather simple manner: tier 1 consists of 6 people, each spawn you get a /ran to loot the item if it drops.

When someone gets their item they're booted from tier 1.

Tier 2 listers get a /ran to join the kill group when someone has gotten their item to leave.

I feel like if they have /list working this couldn't be much harder, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Zuranthium]

Also groups always trumped solo players so ppl always ran 6 deep.

Actually for first 6 months of the game, the exp+loot was determined by the SINGLE player who did the most damage to an NPC. Magicians, Wizards, and Necromancers dominated on their own (Shadowknights with Harmtouch up could also compete, Druids could put up numbers sometimes, and the few Enchanters who played the class well enough had capability; Bards could also disrupt the kill with Charm sometimes). Even after it was changed to calculate full group damage, it was still possible for one of those solo casters to outdamage full groups, because of how vastly superior the Pet/Nuke damage was to the numbers of the lowly Did-Not-Go-To-Magic-School, Not-Smart-Enough-To-Be-A-Mage melee classes.

Green server should use a system that factors in aggro generated to determine which group gets the exp/loot when an NPC dies. That way every class can contribute offensively to the fight. The system would need a bit of balancing (for example Flux Staff should only count once towards the total, Warrior taunt needs to be looked at), but thankfully I am here and could do it exquisitely.

[Solist]

This has been discussed before. The answer was no. Move along, pleb.

Gnome warrior? I was there when that guy failed at #1. Twas sad, but also epic.

The gnome warrior was also mine if it was on teal. We were camping them on both. Friend of mine failed an afk check at #1. But we got stone within 18hrs again. Blue was 56hrs fail then 52hrs to redo, human cle Dont.

[magnetaress]

Actually for first 6 months of the game, the exp+loot was determined by the SINGLE player who did the most damage to an NPC. Magicians, Wizards, and Necromancers dominated on their own (Shadowknights with Harmtouch up could also compete, Druids could put up numbers sometimes, and the few Enchanters who played the class well enough had capability; Bards could also disrupt the kill with Charm sometimes). Even after it was changed to calculate full group damage, it was still possible for one of those solo casters to outdamage full groups, because of how vastly superior the Pet/Nuke damage was to the numbers of the lowly Did-Not-Go-To-Magic-School, Not-Smart-Enough-To-Be-A-Mage melee classes.

Green server should use a system that factors in aggro generated to determine which group gets the exp/loot when an NPC dies. That way every class can contribute offensively to the fight. The system would need a bit of balancing (for example Flux Staff should only count once towards the total, Warrior taunt needs to be looked at), but thankfully I am here and could do it exquisitely.
Yes that's most classic.

Most pnp is fully random.

PnP is not classic. At all. Even remotely.

[Castle2.0]

The gnome warrior was also mine if it was on teal. We were camping them on both. Friend of mine failed an afk check at #1. But we got stone within 18hrs again. Blue was 56hrs fail then 52hrs to redo, human cle Dont.

Yep, on Teal

*moment of silence*

[Toxigen]

The rogues pick-pocketing beads is still the best thing that happened on Green.

[Natewest1987]

A: "People cheated."
B: "Proof?"
A: "My feeling of jealousy because I was unable to get my list item, but others did."

This ^

I’ve seen an actual video of it.

[Solist]

The rogues pick-pocketing beads is still the best thing that happened on Green.

Probably the greatest single event in all 4 server's histories.

[Toxigen]

Probably the greatest single event in all 4 server's histories.

The Great Seafury Heist, Jeremy's Recharge Meltdown, and Book Not Up are all fierce competitors though.

[Byrjun]

This thread reminded me of why systems like /list don't work very well. Some people propose some logical changes and the only discussion that happens from there is "no u dum".

[Toxigen]

just FFA no CSR /pvp flagged once you're in the vicinity of any legacy item drop location

let it rain blood

[Castle2.0]

I’ve seen an actual video of it.

link or no happen

[Tethler]

“Legacy “ items should not exist.

Fixes all problems. Fuck your eq 401k

Either not in at all or implemented permanently in a way that makes sense. It literally ruins the entire server progression and is 1000000% unclassic. There was never a time when there was a nerf schedule to live by it’s a dumb EMU contrivance

Disagree, just make all legacy items nodrop so speculators thinking about sales in 4 years won't bother with it.

[Tethler]

The Great Seafury Heist, Jeremy's Recharge Meltdown, and Book Not Up are all fierce competitors though.

Seafury heist is tops, for sure.

Clear argues with Clear and Bladefrenzy could certainly be contenders in this cream of the crop list, too, I think.

[Solist]

Having been on the recieving end of failing list camps twice at super long durations. Once solo, once sharing accounts. And having done many of them I'd say my only valuable contribution would be changing to a system that accrues hours total spend at a camp, where we use /list to use the Alternate Advancement mechanic and gain experience somehow. Maybe a bunch of level 50 mobs spawn with 1hp and you can only kill one an hour, use some sort of bane damage mechanic already in the coding and a debuff or something.

But your average joe who spends far too much time on EQ (but not anywhere near as much as the top 5%) can slowly accumulate his way to a manastone. The system of just being there clicking boxes was abjectly shit. My body was a fucking wreck for days after that 56hr fail, and in my fraps im awake, talking, chatting in group etc. My brain just did not see the bright red box in the middle of my screen after that long (/viewport my whole screen to a credit card size in corner, and made check boxes and drop confirm boxes giant red centre screen.) It was interesting as hell after the frustration wore off.

[Solist]

“Legacy “ items should not exist.

Fixes all problems. Fuck your eq 401k

Either not in at all or implemented permanently in a way that makes sense. It literally ruins the entire server progression and is 1000000% unclassic. There was never a time when there was a nerf schedule to live by it’s a dumb EMU contrivance

Remember new servers on live never had this stuff.

They were healthy.

Morell thule at kunark launch never had manastones.
Vazaelle at velious launch never had prenerf donals
Kane Bayle at Luclin launch never had beads.

They all flourished. Most of these early items are mistakes. I'd love a new server launch at current blue timeline for that reason. Less dumb shit to worry about camping. Less pissing and moaning from the have nots, who were always have nots, and will always be have nots, who perpetually blame everything/one else for their lack of dedication.

[cd288]

Remember new servers on live never had this stuff.

They were healthy.

Morell thule at kunark launch never had manastones.
Vazaelle at velious launch never had prenerf donals
Kane Bayle at Luclin launch never had beads.

They all flourished. Most of these early items are mistakes. I'd love a new server launch at current blue timeline for that reason. Less dumb shit to worry about camping. Less pissing and moaning from the have nots, who were always have nots, and will always be have nots, who perpetually blame everything/one else for their lack of dedication.

Why would you implement manastones at kunark launch when it was an original eq item

[Jibartik]

Remember new servers on live never had this stuff.

They were healthy.

Morell thule at kunark launch never had manastones.
Vazaelle at velious launch never had prenerf donals
Kane Bayle at Luclin launch never had beads.

They all flourished. Most of these early items are mistakes. I'd love a new server launch at current blue timeline for that reason. Less dumb shit to worry about camping. Less pissing and moaning from the have nots, who were always have nots, and will always be have nots, who perpetually blame everything/one else for their lack of dedication.

well go on then.

https://i.imgur.com/QPD4GJ8.gif

[Ghost of Starman]

The Great Seafury Heist, Jeremy's Recharge Meltdown, and Book Not Up are all fierce competitors though.

And Gratz Bladefrenzy.

[Castle2.0]

Having been on the recieving end of failing list camps twice at super long durations. Once solo, once sharing accounts. And having done many of them I'd say my only valuable contribution would be changing to a system that accrues hours total spend at a camp, where we use /list to use the Alternate Advancement mechanic and gain experience somehow. Maybe a bunch of level 50 mobs spawn with 1hp and you can only kill one an hour, use some sort of bane damage mechanic already in the coding and a debuff or something.

But your average joe who spends far too much time on EQ (but not anywhere near as much as the top 5%) can slowly accumulate his way to a manastone. The system of just being there clicking boxes was abjectly shit. My body was a fucking wreck for days after that 56hr fail, and in my fraps im awake, talking, chatting in group etc. My brain just did not see the bright red box in the middle of my screen after that long (/viewport my whole screen to a credit card size in corner, and made check boxes and drop confirm boxes giant red centre screen.) It was interesting as hell after the frustration wore off.

Sorry, pal you need to read the FAQ on list written by yours truly.

It's simple supply/demand. If people can just FD and AFK... you'll get a LOT more people.

Cost go down? Demand go up! Weird isn't it?

The average joe won't get a manastone. They will simply AFK their main toon and not play any EQ while they compete against a bunch of AFK guild mules.

THINK!

P.S. Don't trade your health for pixels. Foolishness.

[Swish]

Disagree, just make all legacy items nodrop so speculators thinking about sales in 4 years won't bother with it.

https://i.imgur.com/7tDQe21.gif

[Trexller]

/list promotes boxing.

how insanely easy is it to grind xp somewhere, whilst absent mindedly camping a /list item on your laptop via cell phone hotspot or VPN?

I guarantee you that alot of people did this.

I wish I had thought of it at the time, or I would have done this.

thread is done.

[Swish]

I actually think thats the reason teal got shut down. People aiming to box both and camp items on the lists.

[Infectious]

And Gratz Bladefrenzy.

That shit still classic.

[Gustoo]

Remember new servers on live never had this stuff.

They were healthy.

Morell thule at kunark launch never had manastones.
Vazaelle at velious launch never had prenerf donals
Kane Bayle at Luclin launch never had beads.

They all flourished. Most of these early items are mistakes. I'd love a new server launch at current blue timeline for that reason. Less dumb shit to worry about camping. Less pissing and moaning from the have nots, who were always have nots, and will always be have nots, who perpetually blame everything/one else for their lack of dedication.


Thats what I'm saying. EQ didn't have "legacy items" they were just items that weren't in any new servers at all. There was never a time when people were thinking "omg i gotta get to 50 ASAP so i can get lustrous russet and a manastone or 12 asap so I can sell the manastones for 500kpp in 5 years when suckers really really want them!

It's the most fucked thing about p99 by a long shot and makes playing the progression 10,000 percent unclassic.

We get it, everyone wants manastones. They are cool items.

Implement this just permanently for the duration of the game, drop from evil eye with a .00001 percent chance of dropping. Or whatever you want. So many ways to implement the "legacy" items that are -custom- but LESS custom than having them on a ridiculous timed release schedule. fuck locket of escapes, fuck this stuff. Hoarding these items was not what EQ was about in 1999. Another decent late server idea is a Casino like SOny did in the bazaar that eats platinum (helps inflation) and gives small chance of these rare legacy items.

We need 1 red server and 1 blue server that comes out with a better implementation of this shit that completely eliminates the reason to RACE to level 50, and blow through the entire best part of the game, which is progressing through Vanilla when Bronze armor was legit decent armor to wear and monks BIS was basically full cloth and they were blind shitty humans only.

Sure, being first to 50 overall or for your class..cool. That can be your accomplishment. But getting there to stockpile DE mask equipped characters, Manastones, and lustrous russet equipped toons is so unclassic it almost breaks my spirit. I'm speaking from experience. I played on blue. I played on red. Its dumb and its unique to P99 so lets fix it.

[Trexller]

/list promotes boxing.

how insanely easy is it to grind xp somewhere, whilst absent mindedly camping a /list item on your laptop via cell phone hotspot or VPN?

I guarantee you that alot of people did this.

I wish I had thought of it at the time, or I would have done this.

thread is done.

[Castle2.0]

How dare you cast aspersions towards us noble elves, who fairly camped legacy items through legitimate and honorable means, by insinuating the above-listed actions were commonplace.

Nay. I say nay to you, wily elf!

I am happy my 401EC account is safe and sound thanks to my hard efforts. Sorry, you didn't plan for elftirement. Learn from your mistakes for the next iteration.

[Old_PVP]

Thats what I'm saying. EQ didn't have "legacy items" they were just items that weren't in any new servers at all. There was never a time when people were thinking "omg i gotta get to 50 ASAP so i can get lustrous russet and a manastone or 12 asap so I can sell the manastones for 500kpp in 5 years when suckers really really want them!

It's the most fucked thing about p99 by a long shot and makes playing the progression 10,000 percent unclassic.

We get it, everyone wants manastones. They are cool items.

Implement this just permanently for the duration of the game, drop from evil eye with a .00001 percent chance of dropping. Or whatever you want. So many ways to implement the "legacy" items that are -custom- but LESS custom than having them on a ridiculous timed release schedule. fuck locket of escapes, fuck this stuff. Hoarding these items was not what EQ was about in 1999. Another decent late server idea is a Casino like SOny did in the bazaar that eats platinum (helps inflation) and gives small chance of these rare legacy items.

We need 1 red server and 1 blue server that comes out with a better implementation of this shit that completely eliminates the reason to RACE to level 50, and blow through the entire best part of the game, which is progressing through Vanilla when Bronze armor was legit decent armor to wear and monks BIS was basically full cloth and they were blind shitty humans only.

Sure, being first to 50 overall or for your class..cool. That can be your accomplishment. But getting there to stockpile DE mask equipped characters, Manastones, and lustrous russet equipped toons is so unclassic it almost breaks my spirit. I'm speaking from experience. I played on blue. I played on red. Its dumb and its unique to P99 so lets fix it.


https://i.imgur.com/aPgL6jh.gif

Couldn't agree more.

[Infectious]

Thats what I'm saying. EQ didn't have "legacy items" they were just items that weren't in any new servers at all. There was never a time when people were thinking "omg i gotta get to 50 ASAP so i can get lustrous russet and a manastone or 12 asap so I can sell the manastones for 500kpp in 5 years when suckers really really want them!

It's the most fucked thing about p99 by a long shot and makes playing the progression 10,000 percent unclassic.

We get it, everyone wants manastones. They are cool items.

Implement this just permanently for the duration of the game, drop from evil eye with a .00001 percent chance of dropping. Or whatever you want. So many ways to implement the "legacy" items that are -custom- but LESS custom than having them on a ridiculous timed release schedule. fuck locket of escapes, fuck this stuff. Hoarding these items was not what EQ was about in 1999. Another decent late server idea is a Casino like SOny did in the bazaar that eats platinum (helps inflation) and gives small chance of these rare legacy items.

We need 1 red server and 1 blue server that comes out with a better implementation of this shit that completely eliminates the reason to RACE to level 50, and blow through the entire best part of the game, which is progressing through Vanilla when Bronze armor was legit decent armor to wear and monks BIS was basically full cloth and they were blind shitty humans only.

Sure, being first to 50 overall or for your class..cool. That can be your accomplishment. But getting there to stockpile DE mask equipped characters, Manastones, and lustrous russet equipped toons is so unclassic it almost breaks my spirit. I'm speaking from experience. I played on blue. I played on red. Its dumb and its unique to P99 so lets fix it.

So you can't compete and you want the rules changed so no one can receive classic items? Or make it so everyone can get it? Why stop there? Let's remove all sleepers loot as well.

[Trexller]

So you can't compete and you want the rules changed so no one can receive classic items? Or make it so everyone can get it? Why stop there? Let's remove all sleepers loot as well.

legacy items were removed from the live game because they were mistakes to implement in the first place.

why p99 has to deal with this shit is beyond me.

[cd288]

Castle the illegal scripter

[Castle2.0]

Castle the illegal scripter

But nay. However, you can find a smattering of my accomplishments and titles in my signature. Thank you. Like, subscribe, share, and as always... continue to comment ;)

[Ravager]

So you can't compete and you want the rules changed so no one can receive classic items? Or make it so everyone can get it? Why stop there? Let's remove all sleepers loot as well.

Reading is hard.

[Chortles Snortles]

maybe loramin can update the wiki about it
(lol)

[Kutark Validus]

One issue, not sure if it has been mentioned is the Z axis. Had a situation where a friend was camping the Verix in KC, and he asked me to come help him kill at after it spawned, we figured, F it, we're already there and managed to break the camp and kill him, might as well try to do a few spawns for me and see if i can snag it.....

Except there was some monk that was soloing RCY and had himself on the list because why not, and the only reason he got off the list was because he managed to get himself killed, and that put me into the #1 slot on the list.

He clearly wasn't able to clear the camp solo to kill the PH, but still he was able to put himself on the list and, as i understand it, if Verix had spawned and we killed it, he would of been the only one able to loot it, so basically he would have done literally 0 work and other people would have done the camp for him.

As other's have mentioned, the AFK checks also kind of screw over more casual players (as hilarious as it is to call anyone playing p99 casual), as others have mentioned, at least before this you could go do something else between waiting for spawns.

Having done the VP key on blue on my monk back in 2014/2015, the difference in how the VP key situation is on green, even as late into Velious as we are, is worse and more, for lack of a better word, caustic than it ever was on Blue at that point. That or my memory is just ass (which is entirely possible) and i'm wearing rose colored glasses.

[Gustoo]

So you can't compete and you want the rules changed so no one can receive classic items? Or make it so everyone can get it? Why stop there? Let's remove all sleepers loot as well.

All my accounts are sitting pretty with robust eq 401k and ira accounts in the form of manastoned guised fire pots de masked characters with all alts holding COSs to meet all my needs, like time traveling and buying all the property around Central Park in nyc.

I’d rather not have to play the game this way again though as I mentioned it drastically changes the focus of the game in a heavily un-classic way. These items are a thousand times easier to get than even a fungi later in the game and yet they’re guaranteed to be worth a lot more for a lot less work.

I think they have undue influence on the priorities of classic vanilla era play on these servers. I’d rather have a classic experience than a profitable one.

In the mean time, see you in the pots room.

[cd288]

All my accounts are sitting pretty with robust eq 401k and ira accounts in the form of manastoned guised fire pots de masked characters with all alts holding COSs to meet all my needs, like time traveling and buying all the property around Central Park in nyc.

I’d rather not have to play the game this way again though as I mentioned it drastically changes the focus of the game in a heavily un-classic way. These items are a thousand times easier to get than even a fungi later in the game and yet they’re guaranteed to be worth a lot more for a lot less work.

I think they have undue influence on the priorities of classic vanilla era play on these servers. I’d rather have a classic experience than a profitable one.

In the mean time, see you in the pots room.

NYAC and the Met will never sell their buildings to you

[Fammaden]

I think they have undue influence on the priorities of classic vanilla era play on these servers. I’d rather have a classic experience than a profitable one.

They absolutely tainted the experience from day one. Could rename the place P99 GreeD and be just as accurate. Legacy items and the artificial knowledge that everything's on this ticking time bomb expiration clock really shifts a lot of the players' attitudes and behaviors in a selfish direction. There's enough of that already and green just exacerbated it by its very design.

[Castle2.0]

They absolutely tainted the experience from day one. Could rename the place P99 GreeD and be just as accurate. Legacy items and the artificial knowledge that everything's on this ticking time bomb expiration clock really shifts a lot of the players' attitudes and behaviors in a selfish direction. There's enough of that already and green just exacerbated it by its very design.

Bro, pass the salt. I am doing a tequila shot in honor of all the whiners. Getting salt directly from you would let me honor one of the biggest whiners <3

[Coridan]

/list is still better than the god awful player run AC list.

[Seducio]

Hi jebbasha I recommend that you update your ChatGPT model as soon as you have the funds. Your last post doesn't come close to passing the Turing test. How would we actually think you are a human with that jibber jabber. Ask your owner to upgrade your AI model.

[Natewest1987]

This person definitely didn't run a python app with an imaging library that automated inputs after OCRing the dialog or anything.

It's definitely not published out on the internet or anything.

Definitely not! ;)


^ Yup. It’s fucked but I am glad it’s out in the open so maybe it can be circumvented if there’s a next time around.

[cd288]

They absolutely tainted the experience from day one. Could rename the place P99 GreeD and be just as accurate. Legacy items and the artificial knowledge that everything's on this ticking time bomb expiration clock really shifts a lot of the players' attitudes and behaviors in a selfish direction. There's enough of that already and green just exacerbated it by its very design.

I've never understood the drive for legacy items. Guise is kind of a cool novelty, but other than that I've never had interest in any of them. Manastone isn't even that useful for the vast majority of people trying to hit 60.

[Castle2.0]

I've never understood the drive for legacy items. Guise is kind of a cool novelty, but other than that I've never had interest in any of them. Manastone isn't even that useful for the vast majority of people trying to hit 60.

Spoken like a true acolyte of the "no stone" cult.

Manastone is great for hitting 60, but that's not all it's good for.

Also, it's a state of mind.

IFYKYK.

[Jimjam]

Also, it's a state of mind.

IFYKYK.

This is in reference to how it is one of the easiest items to dupe so owning one is akin to having a free kpp printer? (If you are so inclined)

[cd288]

It's great for hitting 60 on certain classes

[Tormmac]

/list was good i got a guise and manastone by myself casually over the course of a few days of commitment

[Woodark]

It seems that the developers were not expecting players to complete the lists multiple times, which caused some issues.

One of the highlights was when Eklorin trained the shit out of the locket camp and then was pissed that no one said thank you when he moved the train.

[jebbasha]

Issues like this can arise in online gaming communities when there is a disconnect between player expectations and developer intentions. Developers may not anticipate certain player behaviors or the extent to which players engage with specific game mechanics, which can lead to unanticipated consequences or frustrations among players.

It's important for developers to gather feedback from their player base and make adjustments to the game's mechanics and systems as needed to create a more balanced and enjoyable experience for everyone. Additionally, clear communication between players can also help mitigate such issues, as it allows for recognition and appreciation of each other's efforts within the game.

[Swish]

It seems that the developers were not expecting players to complete the lists multiple times, which caused some issues.

One of the highlights was when Eklorin trained the shit out of the locket camp and then was pissed that no one said thank you when he moved the train.

lmao

[Records]

The best way to fix legacy items is to make all legacy items drop from similar level mobs in any zone, like the Mischief server ruleset.


- Rare NPCs will drop loot from other NPCs of a similar level within the same expansion.
- Raids will drop loot from other raid NPCs of a similar level within the same expansion.
- Rare NPCs have a greater chance of spawning.


Then no one camps legacy mobs, since every zone has a possibility of dropping something interesting.

Additional benefit of opening up less traveled zones, outside of the same leveling path everyone does: newbie yard > cb > unrest > mm, etc.

[Toxigen]

It was great, especially when rogues were pick-pocketing beads and skipping /list.

[Tewaz]

List is cool, but developers seem to completely underestimate the unhealthy lengths players will go to for legacy items.

Quarm's code allowing a single loot of each item per character is a step in the right direction. It will make the first three months of the server jam packed for the 1-30 leveling pipeline at least.

[Modd]

I thought it was cool but it was broken when i did jboots.

[Seducio]

I think it served its function relatively well in that it was designed to minimize staff intervention at those camps and did achieve that goal.

As far as the mechanism of action, I was not really a fan. Pop ups in general, Notification windows, and things you have click on that move can detract from the overall experience of playing even if you are socking.

Instead of an in game window to click ok, if the game sent you a message saying something along the lines of "Type /listnumber XXXXXX to stay in the /list" with a set amount of time to respond, I think it would be a better overall experience than clicking a box that could appear anywhere.