The Epics are not Epic!

[long.liam]

Too Many people here are obsessed with getting their Epic. The epics aren't really that amazing. Despite calling them an Epic Quest, they don't actually make your character "Epic". A Enchanter with/without the Epic is till the most powerful class in the game. The Shaman still 2nd most powerful with/without epic. 3rd for necro and on and on. Epic is just nice little item. No of them really game changers in any form.

[Ripqozko]

we are 7 years into velious, we know. hope that helps.

[long.liam]

we are 7 years into velious, we know. hope that helps.

Yes so much, Thank You! Your very helpful person!

[Trexller]

Too Many people here are obsessed with getting their Epic. The epics aren't really that amazing. Despite calling them an Epic Quest, they don't actually make your character "Epic". A Enchanter with/without the Epic is till the most powerful class in the game. The Shaman still 2nd most powerful with/without epic. 3rd for necro and on and on. Epic is just nice little item. No of them really game changers in any form.

ench can't solo ayllish

shm can

[long.liam]

ench can't solo ayllish

shm can

Yep.

[Smoofers]

frontal stun immunity though

[Swish]

OP is clearly a mage with no pixel ration points.

[Foxplay]

You sunk your own complaint when starting comparing solo power and equating it to the epic's

As someone with lots of epic's I agree with the premise of your argument for one class.... Rogue

I sometimes forget my rogue even has epic, because its basically just a weapon with haste and completely replaceable. It does absolutely nothing to the theme or fantasy of the class like say modifying backstab damage higher, or making stealth even stronger nope just a weapon with haste and some atk on it no rogue proc, or effect, or click nothing

Pretty much every other epic adds something to the class or plays into the class fantasy obviously some are more "epic" than others.

[Solist]

Yet the rogue epic is one of 4 (ragebringer, swiftwind, celestial fist, staff of 4) that never ever gets replaced. Even with full BIS and vyemm+mrylokar offhand, you swap in RB for backstabs. We can get by without any other epic and be pretty effective, even without cleric epics we’d make do. Every other class replaces theirs or doesn’t use at all or isn’t too heavily affected by not using it.

They’re all nice to have though for various reasons and scenarios.

[unsunghero]

People probably have it as some sort of “I couldn’t get this when I played the original game so I want it now” personal milestone motivating them more than the actual power of the item

Me, I never cared much about any of that, it’s not like I’m trying to out-nerd my 16yr old self at nearly 40. But it also helps that the enc epic is a stat stick borderline-needless mana saver esp to someone who wouldn’t ever raid much

[Jimjam]

Too Many people here are obsessed with getting their Epic. The epics aren't really that amazing. Despite calling them an Epic Quest, they don't actually make your character "Epic". A Enchanter with/without the Epic is till the most powerful class in the game. The Shaman still 2nd most powerful with/without epic. 3rd for necro and on and on. Epic is just nice little item. No of them really game changers in any form.

WTF you talking about?

Enc epic is a living snake staff - a clear reference to Moses channelling god-like power.

The real question, is why the snake staff - a symbol of medicine - isn't the epic for a healer class (like shaman or cleric).

[long.liam]

WTF you talking about?

Enc epic is a living snake staff - a clear reference to Moses channelling god-like power.

The real question, is why the snake staff - a symbol of medicine - isn't the epic for a healer class (like shaman or cleric).

Okay? What does the epic's appearance have anything to with it capabilities. It could littearly look like a piece turd for all I care. I'm only concerned with what the epic actually does. Does it give a massive advantage to a player or it just a stupid trophy that does a lil mana free clickie? The Fungi is more of Epic item IMO, than any actual epic and it littearly looks like a cloth shirt. Arguable looks like piece of shit item, but is a game changer for any character that has one.

[Danth]

The real question, is why the snake staff - a symbol of medicine - isn't the epic for a healer class (like shaman or cleric).

Snakes are strongly associated with deception all the way back to biblical story, and in the case of hooded snakes (cobras) particularly, with seemingly hypnotizing or mesmerizing their prey. It very much fits for the enchanter class.

[Danth]

On an unrelated note (hence separate post), you are correct that a lot of "epic" weapons, aren't. They weren't originally called that by the Verant, either. That was a community-driven term that eventually became standard. They were added, really, as a result of the popularity of the paladin's Fiery Avenger quest. Essentially Verant decided to give everyone a similar lengthy quest for a high-quality weapon that had a visible particle effect.

Danth

[Chortles Snortles]

even during live i thought the duck staff was the lamest shit i'd ever seen

[Kohedron]

No, but they're classic

bye.

[Vaarsuvius]

Okay? What does the epic's appearance have anything to with it capabilities. It could littearly look like a piece turd for all I care. I'm only concerned with what the epic actually does. Does it give a massive advantage to a player or it just a stupid trophy that does a lil mana free clickie? The Fungi is more of Epic item IMO, than any actual epic and it littearly looks like a cloth shirt. Arguable looks like piece of shit item, but is a game changer for any character that has one.

So would you proudly use & wield a giant dildo if it's stats & clicky were awesome ?
More power to you, I know I never would. That's not how I imagine a RPG/ MMO character of mine.
For the same reason, and no matter what their ratio / stats can be, I will never use a shovel, shard of night or a shield on a caster

To each his own I guess.



PS: sorry you don't have your epics

[Chortles Snortles]

cmon dude ornate runed shield is an exception

[Naethyn]

The reason the word epic is used all over the place today is because the guys who made wow did the epic quests in everquest.

[Ghost of Starman]

Yet the rogue epic is one of 4 (ragebringer, swiftwind, celestial fist, staff of 4) that never ever gets replaced. Even with full BIS and vyemm+mrylokar offhand, you swap in RB for backstabs. We can get by without any other epic and be pretty effective, even without cleric epics we’d make do. Every other class replaces theirs or doesn’t use at all or isn’t too heavily affected by not using it.

They’re all nice to have though for various reasons and scenarios.

It's interesting that they kept the +atk modifiers on weapons only on the epics whereas you can find it on a few pieces of random gear.

[Kutark Validus]

Too Many people here are obsessed with getting their Epic. The epics aren't really that amazing. Despite calling them an Epic Quest, they don't actually make your character "Epic". A Enchanter with/without the Epic is till the most powerful class in the game. The Shaman still 2nd most powerful with/without epic. 3rd for necro and on and on. Epic is just nice little item. No of them really game changers in any form.

You should give us all the hookup on where you get whatever it is you're smoking.

Shaman epic is game changing, Cleric epic changes the entire raiding and server landscape dramatically, Monk epic is effing massive, Rogue epic is the closest you get to BiS without basically NToV level loot. Warrior epics actually enable warriors to generate good threat outside of again, NToV level loot, etc.

Yes many of them fall more into a nice stat stick with QoL enhancements, but to say they're not epic i think is reaching.

[long.liam]

You should give us all the hookup on where you get whatever it is you're smoking.

Shaman epic is game changing, Cleric epic changes the entire raiding and server landscape dramatically, Monk epic is effing massive, Rogue epic is the closest you get to BiS without basically NToV level loot. Warrior epics actually enable warriors to generate good threat outside of again, NToV level loot, etc.

Yes many of them fall more into a nice stat stick with QoL enhancements, but to say they're not epic i think is reaching.
Game changing? Is just a dot. A slow 15 dps dot. It's not really that Amazing. Monk, Rogue. You still do damage without an epic. The Epic doesn't double the damage you do, but even that wouldn't be that good. I mean it depends on your previous weapon setup, but at most you're getting maybe 10 - 20% more dps depending on Mob level and AC. Not that great really. Warriors can still generate pretty decent aggro without the Epic. Lots of then do, because it's so hard to get. They do just fine without it though. Small increase in damage does not equal game changing to me.

[Toxigen]

fFnGjyPYxjM

[Allishia]

Light sabors are the most epic epic! You are crazy Mr :p

[wagorf]

So would you proudly use & wield a giant dildo if it's stats & clicky were awesome ?
More power to you, I know I never would. That's not how I imagine a RPG/ MMO character of mine.
For the same reason, and no matter what their ratio / stats can be, I will never use a shovel, shard of night or a shield on a caster


finally someone with some sense here

[Chortles Snortles]

opinion discarded

https://i.imgur.com/zjkLdyK.jpg

[Knuckle]

Too Many people here are obsessed with getting their Epic. The epics aren't really that amazing. Despite calling them an Epic Quest, they don't actually make your character "Epic". A Enchanter with/without the Epic is till the most powerful class in the game. The Shaman still 2nd most powerful with/without epic. 3rd for necro and on and on. Epic is just nice little item. No of them really game changers in any form.

druid epic provides a -100 MR check snare, this is necessary for killing high level non summoning mobs. Also does a lot of damage as a dot and stacks.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Too Many people here are obsessed with getting their Epic. The epics aren't really that amazing. Despite calling them an Epic Quest, they don't actually make your character "Epic". A Enchanter with/without the Epic...
It's like I died and went to an enchanter forum in winter of 2000. Some of us, already had VoG. Some of us, had ran to lvl 60. Some of us, had already memmed VoG.

And then, to see Nerfbat 2000, the horror that was this fuckstick, jesus going down on mary. I wanted to puke. And then, two years too late: https://zam.zamimg.com/images/2/0/206f0fa63ce8f0cfbab7750eb308800e.jpg


this is what the enchanter community wanted in the enchanter epic. which comes into the ecosystem as a novelty item in PoP. Fuck giving me a buff that has minuscule difference from my lvl 60 buff on the same line. And if anyone says, "yes but it saves mana!" you have become one of them.



An insult. That is what the enchanter epic was.

[Fammaden]

Unlimited click slow is just what P99 enchanters need. Verant pls fix.

[Patrece]

They're epic, u mad

[Tunabros]

it has floating pixels

who wouldnt want it

[Chortles Snortles]

http://i.imgur.com/TizMe35.png

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/zEkZAvF.jpg

[magnetaress]

Snakes are strongly associated with deception all the way back to biblical story, and in the case of hooded snakes (cobras) particularly, with seemingly hypnotizing or mesmerizing their prey. It very much fits for the enchanter class.

Technochally allso protection

*sneks

And Royals/gubbernment/ power over land.

I feel the deception thing is a modern trend because of revolutionary/reset during biblical tines. So however is correct especially in the context of modern EQ.

Enchanters are the most evil class and should be deleted or heavily made classic agains, fixed. As reported in the bugs forums.

[mycoolrausch]

Game changing? Is just a dot. A slow 15 dps dot. It's not really that Amazing. Monk, Rogue. You still do damage without an epic. The Epic doesn't double the damage you do, but even that wouldn't be that good. I mean it depends on your previous weapon setup, but at most you're getting maybe 10 - 20% more dps depending on Mob level and AC. Not that great really. Warriors can still generate pretty decent aggro without the Epic. Lots of then do, because it's so hard to get. They do just fine without it though. Small increase in damage does not equal game changing to me.

Rogue epic takes 5 minutes to get and is like 5 items worth of stats in one item. A level 60 rogue putting in equal time to their character as the time it takes to get the epic, but not getting the epic, will be able to farm plat for.... an fbss and an exquisite spear. Too lazy to do the math but probably a raid with 5 epic rogues replaces a raid with 7 of those rogues...at least.... So in that scenario it's like 2 extra rogues for free....

[PlsNoBan]

Has OP played everquest before?

[Snaggles]

Who has the energy to obsess over anything?
Do the easy ones. Justify why you don’t need the difficult ones until you gleefully get a bottleneck drop.

Also Shissar is welfare haste. OP is right, gross.

[Loke]

WTF you talking about?

Enc epic is a living snake staff - a clear reference to Moses channelling god-like power.

The real question, is why the snake staff - a symbol of medicine - isn't the epic for a healer class (like shaman or cleric).

The crazy thing about that Moses comparison is that the turning the staff into a serpent wasn't what got the Pharaoh all hot and bothered, because after Aaron (Moses' brother, who is actually who does it) does, Pharoah has his sorcerer's do it as well. Then Aaron's serpent eats the sorcerer's serpents, which I guess is the thing that displays god's favor for Aaron/Moses.

Moral of the story... turning staves into snakes is no biggie, but Egyptians apparently took snake fighting seriously.

Also, this post is dumb. Most epics are pretty huge utility items. Bard completely changes the class (literally only singing mod in the game, and 1.8 to all mods + weapon), rangers get a 50% main hand slow weapon, war blue blade is like 90 ATK, free pet haste on ench epic, rogue epic super easy to obtain 15 dmg piercer + haste + ATK... like, some are better than others, but they're all worth getting except maybe Paladin and arguably SK.

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/zEkZAvF.jpg

[roks1]

WTF you talking about?

Enc epic is a living snake staff - a clear reference to Moses channelling god-like power.

The real question, is why the snake staff - a symbol of medicine - isn't the epic for a healer class (like shaman or cleric).

The ankh is a much older symbol of life (the key of life) than the Caduseus, which ench staff does not resemble whatsoever.

What keeps some epics epic (well imagine for a minute you aren't using 100 people on a raid) -- snake sticks and cleric epics and bard mods at least continue to deliver in recovery (mid fight or post wipe). War epic if it's still proccing improperly (600 hate? rofl i wish it was 600 hate back in the day) is a top seller. Druids, necros, nerfed mage epic pets kinda feel short shafted, at least a wizard can use his epic and a manastone to fay gate and regen mana for free, nice free rune with regen. Paladin epic proc is insane aggro but yeah lack luster , SK looks great but that's about where it lies. Monk epic rules for eternity.

Really, primal existing where it does, dropping from what it does is the one real glaring imbalance. Ventani is the only Warder that is properly crafted for what was to be the ultimate end dungeon, sad.

Epics still look sick and made newbs jaws drop when they first saw em and that's really the most epic of all :^) the greatest carrot to the freshest meat.

I wish there were more daggers that look like that one from the Halas rogue guild leader in game, way cooler than tunare's dagger that she borrowed from Ikitiar the venomed.

The end

[roks1]

Game changing? Is just a dot. A slow 15 dps dot. It's not really that Amazing. Monk, Rogue. You still do damage without an epic. The Epic doesn't double the damage you do, but even that wouldn't be that good. I mean it depends on your previous weapon setup, but at most you're getting maybe 10 - 20% more dps depending on Mob level and AC. Not that great really. Warriors can still generate pretty decent aggro without the Epic. Lots of then do, because it's so hard to get. They do just fine without it though. Small increase in damage does not equal game changing to me.

At one point during the clusterfuck of the luclin launch, the Shaman epic got a strange accidental change -- the splurt dot became a heal. IT was truly the greatest time to be a shaman until PoTime slow stick but it only lasted a patch or 2. I still remember watching the luclin skeletons attack with this one hand karate chop -- they didn't even have animation for dual wielding, just faster right hand chopping. I miss retarded patching making something awesome temporarily once in a while.

[mattydef]

I'm personally a big fan of epic weapons, I think they're pretty epic. Hell, I even homebrewed my epic shaman in D&D.

[WokeCat]

Yet the rogue epic is one of 4 (ragebringer, swiftwind, celestial fist, staff of 4) that never ever gets replaced. Even with full BIS and vyemm+mrylokar offhand, you swap in RB for backstabs. We can get by without any other epic and be pretty effective, even without cleric epics we’d make do. Every other class replaces theirs or doesn’t use at all or isn’t too heavily affected by not using it.

They’re all nice to have though for various reasons and scenarios.
I don't know how realistic it would be to get these items on P99 during Kunark / before Velious, or how many players may have had access to them when the game launched back in the day.

But I was able to experiment with a lot of weapons over on TLP and discovered that a Rogue with a Razor Sharp Short Sword and Feverblade will easily out-damage a Rogues who were using Ragebringers. Granted I had a PoSKY belt which had 41% haste on it, and IDK if Feverblade procs the same on P99, but I swear to God it was proc'ing every 2 seconds.

My point though was that it made me question whether or not some of the best geared Rogues during Kunark replaced their Ragebringers before Velious came out. (I understand you could still swap Ragebringer in for more backstab damage, but I wasn't aware of the fact that RSSS and FB did insane damage prior to experimenting with them).

[mattydef]

That doesn’t sounds right at all, the DPS is similar but the RB also gives +40 attack that affects both weapons. I guess if you get chain procs it’s possible but you’ll be dead due to agro at that point, lol.

[WokeCat]

That doesn’t sounds right at all, the DPS is similar but the RB also gives +40 attack that affects both weapons. I guess if you get chain procs it’s possible but you’ll be dead due to agro at that point, lol.

That's another thing I wonder about too, maybe it's just different because of the fact that it was TLP. I was swapping in a Rabid Chokidai Fang for backstabs (with the bandolier system it's completely effortless and you won't even notice you're weapon swapping), but my parses would be a lot higher than Rogues who were main handing a Ragebringer.

I actually just remembered though, it probably is completely different on TLP. Like on TLP, a slow-offhand isn't good. The weapon delay is normalized for both hands or something? So a lot of decent off-hands from original EQ that were super slow end up being terrible items over on TLP... if I had remembered this I prob wouldnt have even brought this up, lol

[WokeCat]

That doesn’t sounds right at all, the DPS is similar but the RB also gives +40 attack that affects both weapons. I guess if you get chain procs it’s possible but you’ll be dead due to agro at that point, lol.

Also IDK if it's like this on P99, but on TLP, double backstabs were rare, but I played a Rogue 20+ years ago and I thought he double backstabbed every time? Like that actually kind of annoyed me on TLP. Also a ton of mobs see through invis, it's almost useless until PoP comes out and they get an AA that makes stealth work everywhere.