More fun leveling - Gnome Warrior or Erudite Paladin?

[radbeard]

I have a decent set of twink gear now. Fungi Tunic, Seahorse belt, 2x silver chitin wristbands, reaver. and other odds and ends.

I will never raid with either of these characters, I'm mostly interested in leveling with a mix of soloing and grouping. Probably to the mid 50s. I do not care about these characters raid roles, or ntov loot options, or anything like that.

For the gnome I also have the haste clicky gnome armor, and dwarven cultural armor is pretty good at filling out some otherwise mediocre gear slots.

For paladin, I could get the shield of stalwart seas + rod of faith or something (i also have a reaver for both). But I don't think I want to grind plat long enough to buy a massive dragonclaw shard.

For this kind of pretty solid, but not wildly overwhelming set of twink gear, I can't decide which would be more fun. The gnome can basically be at haste-cap by himself, which is pretty nice. Paladins get spells and eventually helmet healing and whatnot.

So setting aside these classes respective roles at 60. Which do you think would be the most fun to level to at least the mid 50s with?

[zelld52]

The Brell's gear is good AC for levelling and filling the Legs / Boots / Helm slots specifically. But, Gnome has worse dex than dwarf - so dwarf would be better as a warrior for 50+ proc'ing Bloodpoints and Truncheon of Doom. Unless you wanna keep recharging the haste arms. But, still dwarf strength will help especially with Reaver and critical / crippling. And dwarf stamina much better, too.

Paladin is a better tank and more fun class to play. Erudite have pretty good starting charisma for lulls. With fungi, 34% haste and a reaver, you can be group daddy as paladin. CC, pulls, tank, DPS, heals. It's very fun to carry groups as a paladin. And erudite have excellent fashion, especially velious plate. Or Deepwater. (Crystal Chitin Looks dope with Fungi, SCWB, CC arms on erudite)

If you dont care about raiding, I'd say paladin is the winner

[Toxigen]

Gnome War w/ self haste and fungi will outpace paladin solo for a while until lacking CC becomes an issue.

Pally will obviously be way better for most grouping with the exception being duo with a shaman. War's damage really shines with shaman duo.

If you can afford it, a Crown of Narandi will make the biggest difference for solo Paladin. Trak BP is pretty nuts too.

I did both (not gnome, but heavily twinked war). Paladin felt way better / more efficient after about level 30.

My vote goes to Paladin since you expressly stated no interest in raiding and only taking it to mid 50s (war shines at 60). Load up on DS pots. Start max CHA with a good set of +CHA items for lull splitting rooms.

I did warrens 1-23, perma 23-30, and CT 30-43 completely solo. Afterward, did some solo and grouping at CoM 43-48, then some kedge/solB to bridge the gap to hole entrance (you'll be keyed too no matter what race if you do warrens 1-23). The ole XP / ZEM superhighway.

[radbeard]

Cool. This is the kind of stuff I was kicking around. I like gnomes and those haste arms, but paladin probably just does have a better kit for getting into (and importantly, out of) trouble.

There is just no way i'll have a crown of narandi probably ever. I just bought a fungi yesterday and now I have like 2-3k plat. I think anything over 15k I don't have the fortitude to farm for right now! I don't think anybody is going to feel comfortable letting me borrow such a pricey item. A Trak BP I might be able to afford by the time i'm 45 though, it does look super nice.

Gnome has worse dex than dwarf - so dwarf would be better as a warrior for 50+ proc'ing Bloodpoints and Truncheon of Doom. Unless you wanna keep recharging the haste arms. But, still dwarf strength will help especially with Reaver and critical / crippling. And dwarf stamina much better, too

I could also get the gnome dex buffing armor. And its easy to keep enough batterys around to maintain these buffs once you're like 20+ and they last a bit of time. I think gnomes with haste clicky come out ahead of other leveling warriors when you don't have somebody to provide that buff, but I think the arguments for paladin otherwise seem pretty compelling anyway

[zelld52]

Yeah warrior gets really tough because the solo spots are super limited 30+ Even with fungi and a reaver.

Paladin can split camps like a boss - pick up some cha gear (Kobold jesters crown 30cha and can be worn all the time - 15ac head slot) and praise prexuZ

[radbeard]

Kobold Jester Crown seems like a very good idea. Any other high value charisma items worth picking up to swap? I could maybe force myself to farm enough for a necklace of superiority. That seems generically good.

Otherwise i'm looking at a setup of something like this: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Erud_Paladin

[zelld52]

Kobold Jester Crown seems like a very good idea. Any other high value charisma items worth picking up to swap? I could maybe force myself to farm enough for a necklace of superiority. That seems generically good.

Otherwise i'm looking at a setup of something like this: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Erud_Paladin

Thats a really solid build -- mostly becuase you wouldnt have to swap out gear for lulls. That gear you have will carry you to 45 -- maybe a deepwater helm / legs / BP / bracer for 45+ clickies.

Damn, wish you were on Green you could duo with my dru or enc

[Toxigen]

Kobold Jester Crown seems like a very good idea. Any other high value charisma items worth picking up to swap? I could maybe force myself to farm enough for a necklace of superiority. That seems generically good.

Otherwise i'm looking at a setup of something like this: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Erud_Paladin

https://wiki.project1999.com/Matchless_Dragonskin_Mask

https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Crude_Stein

See my paladins magelo, I prefer +6 neck over superiority if you can find some loot rights to buy.

Also swapping gear for lulls is NOT a big deal at all, especially when a crit resist means a ton more resources used to handle the additional mobs.

Take the time to do it. Its worth. Your fungi is healing you anyway while you do it :)

[radbeard]

cool. I'll pick up those charisma items too. You're other stuff thats nicer (some of it a lot nicer!) is beyond my price range sadly. But it looks like a really nice and carefully chosen set of equipment.

Superiority necklace is probably the way to go for me unless i decide to go to 60 or something and don't mind losing the cash forever on a no-trade item. But that isn't my plan at this time.


I appreciate all the suggestions from people though

[Toxigen]

cool. I'll pick up those charisma items too. You're other stuff thats nicer (some of it a lot nicer!) is beyond my price range sadly. But it looks like a really nice and carefully chosen set of equipment.

Superiority necklace is probably the way to go for me unless i decide to go to 60 or something and don't mind losing the cash forever on a no-trade item. But that isn't my plan at this time.


I appreciate all the suggestions from people though

Aye, you've got a great set of gear that'll be more than enough...albeit a bit slower lacking FT2 from narandi crown. Make sure to get https://wiki.project1999.com/Deepwater_Vambraces and will save you a ton of mana from 45 on.

I'd dump a few thousand plat on some 10 dose DS pots. They're amazing if you need that little bump in damage when in a really sticky spot (or if you get a POTG and want to really go HAM). Can easily make the difference between a corpse run and a nice med break.

https://wiki.project1999.com/10_Dose_Kilva%27s_Skin_of_Flame

[radbeard]

Narandi's crown seems amazing, but I just have no way of making that happen. I'm selling sacrifices to necromancers as it is to buy some of this stuff!

I'll pick up some DS pots, SoW pots and charisma items and get to work later this week!

Zell: sorry you're on green as well. I'm sure i'll be soloing more than I wish I was.

[Toxigen]

Be careful, DS pots are highly addictive and can lead to chronic abuse.

In the words of David Lee Roth, "I used to have a drug problem, now I make enough money."

[radbeard]

Be careful, DS pots are highly addictive and can lead to chronic abuse.

In the words of David Lee Roth, "I used to have a drug problem, now I make enough money."

I've got a handful of characters I never planned on saccing that I can turn to if I need more hits of that kilvas

[radbeard]

Oceanpray, Erudite paladin of Prexus lives!

[Ennewi]

Kobold Jester Crown seems like a very good idea. Any other high value charisma items worth picking up to swap? I could maybe force myself to farm enough for a necklace of superiority. That seems generically good.

Otherwise i'm looking at a setup of something like this: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Erud_Paladin

https://wiki.project1999.com/Luminary_Two_Handed_Sword

[radbeard]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Luminary_Two_Handed_Sword

I like it! I'll look into that as well.

[Toxigen]

I always forget about that sword. Pretty cool.

[Snaggles]

A knight is going to solo much easier than a warrior these days. Less deaths, less having to flee, easier splitting etc. Warriors scale better and are insane with the best gear but still will have to pick their targets carefully. Root net and battle bind nerf, etc.

As a general tank for non-raid targets a knight is great. In basic group and “help out” situations they are as well. I’d play a warrior if you want to have more toys and be able to DW. Otherwise with moderate goals and gear I think you will be more frustrated in terms of actual tanking and solo capacity.

[Andyman1022]

As others have stated, gnomes are the de jure twink warrior solo build. Having leveled my HIE paladin to 59 and my GNM warrior to 59 as well, I am having more "fun" leveling the gnome war, because it just feels like a much sturdier class. Your HP goes down a lot slower and in much smaller chunks, you get evasive at lvl 52 which is amazing, and access to a lot of utility weapons that make you the "mage-blade".

I have a 60 SK, 59 war and 59 paladin though, so disregard my opinion because I literally like to level all the classes lol

[Kich867]

A knight is going to solo much easier than a warrior these days. Less deaths, less having to flee, easier splitting etc. Warriors scale better and are insane with the best gear but still will have to pick their targets carefully. Root net and battle bind nerf, etc.

As a general tank for non-raid targets a knight is great. In basic group and “help out” situations they are as well. I’d play a warrior if you want to have more toys and be able to DW. Otherwise with moderate goals and gear I think you will be more frustrated in terms of actual tanking and solo capacity.

Knights do plenty of tanking in raiding though. Warriors tank TOV dragons / vindi and whatnot but basically everything else is tanked by knights. Depending on the content your guild is doing, you're more likely to tank more things as a knight unless your guild is at the absolute tip top of content. And if your guild is there, or a zerg guild, you probably won't be tanking much either way.

[Snaggles]

Knights do plenty of tanking in raiding though. Warriors tank TOV dragons / vindi and whatnot but basically everything else is tanked by knights. Depending on the content your guild is doing, you're more likely to tank more things as a knight unless your guild is at the absolute tip top of content. And if your guild is there, or a zerg guild, you probably won't be tanking much either way.

Yea for sure. The OP just mentioned not being up for raiding. I’ve tanked a lot of content whether initially intended or not. :) .

I love the warrior class. It’s definitely dynamic and a workhorse. Knights are just unflappable. A few aggro and utility spells and you can do great things, especially with the lvl 60 disc.

[Snaggles]

Knights do plenty of tanking in raiding though. Warriors tank TOV dragons / vindi and whatnot but basically everything else is tanked by knights. Depending on the content your guild is doing, you're more likely to tank more things as a knight unless your guild is at the absolute tip top of content. And if your guild is there, or a zerg guild, you probably won't be tanking much either way.

Yea for sure; that is a good call-out besides a select few mobs knights tank a lot of raid targets. The OP just mentioned not being up for raiding. I’ve tanked a lot of content whether initially intended or not. :) .

I love the warrior class. It’s definitely dynamic and a workhorse. Knights are just unflappable. A few aggro and utility spells and you can do great things, especially with the lvl 60 disc.

[radbeard]

Thanks everyone. This has all been useful.

[Goldknyght]

if u have to ask, start a rogue cuz ur ultra maga! https://youtu.be/WeZKzRiU-LE

[Soothsayer]

But, still dwarf strength will help especially with Reaver and critical / crippling. And dwarf stamina much better, too.

30 strength isn't going to be a noticeable damage boost except maybe at high levels, and by then you have options (like huge shaman buffs) to get near the strength cap anyway.

Don't think anyone has parsed the value of strength, but it's not really significant until higher levels.

[Philistine]

Very late to the party here but I feel like a pally would be more fun to level. More CC, lull, heals would be great, and good agro if you group.

[Damarous]

Gnome armor gives +30 dex and +30 str that stacks with nearly everything, the haste is amazing. You get to the point you can do non-standard groups like pet groups and other fun options.

Paladins are also a bunch of fun for reasons already covered.

[Jimjam]

Something no one ever mentions is warriors get an innate magic resistance boost, which scales with level.

They are very effective at shrugging off curses such as slows compared to the other tanks.

[bobjonesp99]

I made a twink gnome warrior and it was a lot of fun to level. You have most all of the important twink gear already acquired it looks like. Gnome cultural armor is awesome. While the 30 strength buff may not be massive, its cheap and worth something. What actually is more important is the 40% clicky haste and 30 dexterity buff once you are in your 50s so you can improve your proc rate (truncheon of doom + 2 blood points while evasive is rolling is amazing, for example).

Paladins do have better snap agro, they can pacify, invis, add in some heals, root, can smoke undead, etc. However, if you get a few more twink items to expand the warriors toolbox like an infestation, silken whip of ensnaring, journeyman walking stick, truncheon of doom, and bloodpoints x2, I think the gnome warrior will be more fun. The Reaver will carry you for a while, but the true fun in a warrior is all the clickies and weapon swaps for procs.

[Snaggles]

This game is a balance of mathematical superiority vs flexibility. The pure classes are always “better” where as the less focused ones typically have extra tools in their utility belts.

The biggest struggle a warrior will face is how to tackle multiple problems at once. Tanking one thing is easy, you have to trust people to do their jobs (healing, cc etc). The biggest struggle a paladin (or sk) will face is knowing they aren’t the “best” at taking hits or returning them. It’s not a real issue for most of content but is a slice of humble pie.

I equate it to a necro vs mage in a group situation. Mages get a lot of hate but if grinding blues in a group they are just better unless the necro is charming. Higher dps pets, higher burst spells, a DS that adds consistent damage, coth for ease of replacing team members who leave, etc. When crap goes sideways the necro is what you really want; their kit is MASSIVE. Like a paladin they can even rez in a pinch. You can’t always find a cleric and that shouldn’t have to stop an adventure in its tracks. In fact the paladin HoT and necro HoT stack. I trioed Uulump with ease adding in the 57 Druid.

Note: the Mage/Necro thing is just a metaphor and not intending to sidetrack the thread. While I do like the mage class I’m not that delusional to need convincing :) . Also I still think the warrior class is extremely fun to play. Just a matter of preference, maybe one of each even!

[Trelaboon]

I solod both to 60, with a similar gear setup to what you mention here. I’d say it was pretty similar in terms of speed, though less scary on a Paladin, and with more options for where I could solo. My warrior kinda just had to solo like KC entrance to 60. Gnome Warrior with haste arms though is so nice and you’ll kill like 3x faster than the Paladin. It basically boils down to kill time versus downtime. One kills faster, but needs way more time to recover.

[Snaggles]

these days kill speed on a warrior isnt much better than a pally w/o the self-recovery.

Sure back in the day if using like a tank 1h or something but a Reaver with the new 2h and knight tables it's pretty easy.

[Toxigen]

If you have a truncheon at 50, it really opens up the duo possibilities as a war beyond shaman.

But they're still never going to be as capable as a paladin for solo.

[Trelaboon]

these days kill speed on a warrior isnt much better than a pally w/o the self-recovery.

Sure back in the day if using like a tank 1h or something but a Reaver with the new 2h and knight tables it's pretty easy.

On a Gnome with 40% haste arms it’s way faster.

[Snaggles]

On a Gnome with 40% haste arms it’s way faster.

Eh I mean at some point when the fungi doesnt really help its a game of splitting and HP recovery. A pally with a 2h doesnt do like 50% the damage of a warrior.

So kill speed with a warrior and 2h is a bit quicker. It's all the rest of the equation though that makes life suck. Getting an add and hauling to the zone since root nets are nerfed, etc.

I leveled a twinked gnome to 56 and pally to 60. The pally had nothing but a DW helm and got the reaver at 45. It was extremely easy in comparison.

[Jimjam]

Where were you fighting the warrior? There are spots that are ‘easy’ for them, even if slow due to reliance on bottom feeding.

[Trelaboon]

Eh I mean at some point when the fungi doesnt really help its a game of splitting and HP recovery. A pally with a 2h doesnt do like 50% the damage of a warrior.

So kill speed with a warrior and 2h is a bit quicker. It's all the rest of the equation though that makes life suck. Getting an add and hauling to the zone since root nets are nerfed, etc.

I leveled a twinked gnome to 56 and pally to 60. The pally had nothing but a DW helm and got the reaver at 45. It was extremely easy in comparison.

I personally found the Warrior way faster and the downtime not that much different, even with low dps weapons like the points. I was using Fungi, Truncheon of Doom and Blood Points and would have to stop to heal up every few kills or so. Bandages made getting back in the fight quick and easy though. Paladin had similar gear, but was using epic. Paladin felt almost impossible to die on, but kill times were such a slog.