Don't split Green 2.0

[Coridan]

So, maybe I'm alone here, but I think the Green/Teal split was dumb. There is more than enough content to support 2-3k people 1-40. People just need to be willing to hunt in the Mino caves in Steamfont or derv camps in Sro or goblin camps in BBM or hunting in Najena, Permafrost, etc.

I'll grant that there was an issue when Green launched with outdoor ZEM being kinda fucked, but we don't have that this time. Let's see groups in Runnyeye!

[Castle2.0]

So, maybe I'm alone here, but I think the Green/Teal split was dumb. There is more than enough content to support 2-3k people 1-40. People just need to be willing to hunt in the Mino caves in Steamfont or derv camps in Sro or goblin camps in BBM or hunting in Najena, Permafrost, etc.

I'll grant that there was an issue when Green launched with outdoor ZEM being kinda fucked, but we don't have that this time. Let's see groups in Runnyeye!

Think that one through again. There aren't enough newbie zones at opening for 2-3k people. 12 starting races. 1-2 newbie zones. We're looking at 100-200 people per zone if we manage a perfect distribution.

TMK, 100-200 doesn't work in any newbie zone.

It takes weeks/months for people to fan out. 66 zones (including all cities + Arena + Temple of Sol Ro). If we had 3,000 online at once perfectly distributed across all zones, a single server is not enough.

[Chortles Snortles]

dude let's open another earth
(lol)

[Coridan]

I played on green from the moment in launched, I remember groups of 6 getting together to take on level 2-3 mobs at level 1. It was crazy, but it was only the first day. Once there's people hitting 5-6 there's a ton of zones to spread to and a ton more space in most of the newbie zones. A split just funnels everyone down the same old leveling path we've all done. Faydwer races go to orc hill then CB, east antonica go to Befallen/Oasis and west Antonica go to Blackburrow/WK bandits.

[Castle2.0]

Math is not on your side, fellow elf.


Count server population
Count all level 1-20 zones
Count all camps in zones
Divide total server population by # of camps
Realize the number is much higher than 6
Join the good guys who want Green 2.0 & Teal 2.0
Or come join me in retirement and be a true ForumQuester

[Ooloo]

Totally agree with OP. I understand why the devs split it, and I have nothing but respect for the people that make this entire thing happen. But I always felt like the issue would naturally work itself out. The first few days are obviously going to be chaotic and overcrowded no matter what, and there's no way to really emulate the actual launch of everquest as it was in 1999. But people naturally level at different rates, or simply aren't willing to log in on literal day 1 because of the crazy congestion in newbie areas, so the population quickly stratifies within the first week. The whole "people camping individual spawns in everfrost" thing only happened for maybe.. 2 days? 3 at most?

I also started green on day 1 decided not to switch over to teal. Again I think the devs were just trying to make people happy I don't fault them at all, but then when the servers merged back together there was a lot of unnecessary animosity created between who was on teal and who was on green. The teal tribe felt like they were being "forced" into green, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Both populations were merged, the resulting server was just named "Green". Had it been named "Teal" instead, the green people would have been up in arms about being "forced into teal".

I think it makes sense to not split, unless there's like a serious hardware limitation where people can't log in at all, or there's some other backend issue that requires a split.

[Castle2.0]

Maybe 20-30 level 1-20 zones.

There aren't 15 camps in CB.
There aren't 15 camps in WK.
There aren't 15 camps in Gorge of King Xorbb.
There aren't 15 camps in Qeynos Hills.
There aren't 15 camps in Unrest.
There aren't 15 camps in Befallen.

Let alone for 15 full groups of 6 =D

2000-3000 is a bit optimistic though.

[Chortles Snortles]

guy who "solo'd" the fastest 1-50 (NOT 60 LOL) unable to contemplate group play

[Castle2.0]

guy who "solo'd" the fastest 1-50 (NOT 60 LOL) unable to contemplate group play

You're right. When I say "100 people in CB is unhealthy for the server" what I mean is "I don't like grouping."

If you really stretch you maybe have 10 camps in CB. So we have 60 people (10 groups of 6) with 40 people waiting in line for a group spot to open up.

These people would probably complain, but more than likely they are simply unable to contemplate group play.

[Kirdan]

Agree with OP, the split was neither necessary nor beneficial. There were plenty of mobs to kill and the population was stratifying on its own. Letting people box green + teal made it even worse on top of that because many would just sit in the /list for both servers at once.

[Coridan]

You're right. When I say "100 people in CB is unhealthy for the server" what I mean is "I don't like grouping."

If you really stretch you maybe have 10 camps in CB. So we have 60 people (10 groups of 6) with 40 people waiting in line for a group spot to open up.

These people would probably complain, but more than likely they are simply unable to contemplate group play.

This is exactly my point though. Crowding in Crushbone should be leading people to hunt in Steamfont and Butcherblock.

Also I don't think people crying for a split actually cared about grouping they cared about the queue for legacy items.

[Castle2.0]

This is exactly my point though. Crowding in Crushbone should be leading people to hunt in Steamfont and Butcherblock.

Also I don't think people crying for a split actually cared about grouping they cared about the queue for legacy items.

You failed math, and now you failed logic.

You say there is "plenty of content for 2-3k people."

If you include Steamfont and Butcherblock there are still only 20-30 level 1-20 zones.

This means the 40 unhappy people in Crushbone can't go to SF or BB, because those zones also have 100 players each =) Probably each with 40+ unhappy players with no mobs to kill. Oh wait, they are outdoor zones so you'll have people camping individual 6 minute 40 second spawn mobs... just like classic.

*insert Keanu Reeves "wow" revelation meme"

You either didn't play launch, or don't remember.

tl;dr: There are not enough level 1-20 mobs in Classic EQ for 2000-3000 players to kill at the same time.

[Chortles Snortles]

so upset at the thought of having to share and making frens
(lol)

[magnetaress]

A few months of camping single spawns and queueing for mobs would be great for yall. Plus there is always red99. So I totally agree with the OP.

Also if I was the devs or GMs I'd be conspicuously absent for the first 6 months of a new server than pop on and ban the biggest whiners than disappear again with the only messages a server wide FFA

[Coridan]

You failed math, and now you failed logic.

You say there is "plenty of content for 2-3k people."

If you include Steamfont and Butcherblock there are still only 20-30 level 1-20 zones.

This means the 40 unhappy people in Crushbone can't go to SF or BB, because those zones also have 100 players each =) Probably each with 40+ unhappy players with no mobs to kill. Oh wait, they are outdoor zones so you'll have people camping individual 6 minute 40 second spawn mobs... just like classic.

*insert Keanu Reeves "wow" revelation meme"

You either didn't play launch, or don't remember.

tl;dr: There are not enough level 1-20 mobs in Classic EQ for 2000-3000 players to kill at the same time.

I remember plenty well. I was grouping in Befallen non stop at release, maybe I just had it easier because I was one of the 10% of players playing tank instead of druid, mage, or chanter

[Castle2.0]

I remember plenty well. I was grouping in Befallen non stop at release, maybe I just had it easier because I was one of the 10% of players playing tank instead of druid, mage, or chanter

Try putting 100 players in Befallen =)

[Lampolo]

Anything over 500 pre kunark is getting bulky. I want to xp in zones that I like. The people who want thousands on one server are incoherant desert madmen. What is so alluring about having big server pop? Do you want to show your mom or something? Can anyone give me one good reason? Forcing people to level in outdoor zones is not a good reason. Limiting legacy item access is not a good reason

[Chortles Snortles]

massively multiplayer online role-playing game
(lol)

[Lampolo]

Good job figuring out what mmrpg stands for

[Chortles Snortles]

>wants to play EverQuest single player mode
(lol)

[Ravager]

They should have left it split in the first place. Teal was the best server they ever ran.

[cd288]

Anyone who thinks green 2.0 will get the same type of pop as green 1.0 did on launch day is deluding themselves lol. Half the pop was people who had either never played and tried it once and then left or people who got a quick nostalgia fix after not having played eq in like 20 years and then quickly left after realizing why they left in the first place years ago lol.

Green 2.0 will basically just be current p99 players shifting over to the new server

[Zuranthium]

1-2 newbie zones.

You said WHAT? There's 13 newbie zones at minimum during launch:

Tox Forest, Qeynos Catacombs, North Qeynos, Everfrost, Misty Thicket, Feerott, Innothule Swamp, Nek Forest, West Freeport, East Freeport, Butcherblock, Gfay, Steamfont.

There are other zones with less things to hunt right at level 1, but still something.

Maybe 20-30 level 1-20 zones.

There aren't 15 camps in CB, WK, Gorge, Qey Hills, Unrest, Befallen

There absolutely are 15 camps in those zones. Just depends exactly how many people you want each "camp" to support.

At launch here are the number of zones that have something to exp on for each level range:

1: 25
5: 32
10: 51
15: 46
20: 44
25: 47
30: 50

Before level 10 it's a clusterfuck for sure, but that could be alleviated by globally reducing the respawn all low level NPC's for a couple weeks.

Anything over 500 pre kunark is getting bulky. I want to xp in zones that I like. Forcing people to level in outdoor zones is not a good reason.

What is this "forcing" garbage. Outdoor zones have no stigma. Most people love them? There's more room to move compared to dungeons and generally better views. In classic people explored around almost everywhere for things to hunt. Both outdoor zones and cities were full of people killing whatever appropriate level NPC's they could find.

You should try something new. It's not like there's a big difference anyway, it's mostly all the same. Same boring, outdated game. Go somewhere you've been less and experience the environment.

[Lampolo]

OP insinuated ppl would be pushed out of popular dungeons due to high population. I don't like that because I want to experience those zones in a more classical setting. I've never experienced pre kunark lvling. I missed Green for the most part. Not everyone is grinding the same game decade after decade. Maybe you all talking about trying a new path should take a break

[Zuranthium]

OP insinuated ppl would be pushed out of popular dungeons due to high population. I don't like that because I want to experience those zones in a more classical setting.

They didn't insinuate that? They said zone populations should be more balanced now because of how ZEM's have changed.

If you want a "classic setting", then the play nice policy would need to be removed (or at the very least, changed to the actual classic PNP put into the game after 1 year). But aside from that, popular zones having over 100 people in them is what's classic. These places were so severely crowded back in the day that groups would be sitting around doing one tiny room with just a few NPC's on a long respawn time.

For leveling purposes, the game generally has enough content to support the population if people spread out. Lots of areas of popular dungeons don't have valuable item drops and should be open for exping.

[Coridan]

OP insinuated ppl would be pushed out of popular dungeons due to high population. I don't like that because I want to experience those zones in a more classical setting. I've never experienced pre kunark lvling. I missed Green for the most part. Not everyone is grinding the same game decade after decade. Maybe you all talking about trying a new path should take a break

You can still get into those dungeon groups, you might have to wait longer for a spot to open but just play an in-demand class if that's what you really want. Green was desperate for tanks in the first few weeks, I was getting invites from groups basically as soon as I logged on.

Or if you really want to just level through Crushbone/Unrest them just wait a few months for the population to spread out. Classic lasts an entire year.

I want to see the game like it was when a server launched back in 1999 and people actually grouped in outdoor zones. There's only two ways that happens: high pop or zem adjustment. When Green launched the outdoor ZEM was broken because it was left over from Blue and their attempts to nerf swarm kiting. They fixed it on green but not until months after launch, by which point most people were in CT.

[Raj]

Forcing people to level in outdoor zones is not a good reason. Limiting legacy item access is not a good reason

This is probably a Castle 2.0 alt revealing his real problem with a single fresh server lol.

You see, Castle2.0 is so poor IRL that he needs to farm as many manastones as he can on 2 different fresh servers simultaneoulsy for RMT bucks.

He's got to pay off all the drug rehab debt and finish paying for all of his dental implants! :cool:

Good luck my friend! :cool:

[magnetaress]

Dweeb

[Jimjam]

Fix the dynamic respawn mechanic for newbie zones so they repopulate faster (and not using fixed spawn points) the busier the zone gets.

On live there never was a shortage of mobs in freeport west, not even with 20 newbs rinning around in that tiny yard.

[Chortles Snortles]

this

[Castle2.0]

Zuranthium, 1-2 newbie zones per starting city.

Also

1: 25
5: 32
10: 51
15: 46
20: 44
25: 47
30: 50A lot of overlap here. This is not a unique count of zones.

ManFromMumbaiCallingMePoor, I never touched drugs a single time in my life.

A random woman told me I had a great smile ~16 years ago - pretty much the same smile now ;) Nice try tho not.

[Chortles Snortles]

it's MA'AM~!!!
(lol)

[Zuranthium]

A lot of overlap here. This is not a unique count of zones

There are 55 zones at launch that have content within the 1-20 level range. Far more than the number you stated. Why does it matter that there is overlap when different level people can be in the same zone fighting different level NPC’s?

[Castle2.0]

There are 55 zones at launch that have content within the 1-20 level range. Far more than the number you stated. Why does it matter that there is overlap when different level people can be in the same zone fighting different level NPC’s?

67 total zones. 55 are not "1-20."

You can't count the single level 5 mob in SolB ;)

How many killable mobs for lowbies in cities?

Sorry pal, nope.

[Raj]

Dweeb

Mr. Magnetaress, perhaps you too are suffering from the indignities of poverty IRL? Without more information, Im afraid i cannot be giving you very helpful advice in this area...stay strong my friend! :cool:

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/bl1Ei.gif

[magnetaress]

Mr. Magnetaress, perhaps you too are suffering from the indignities of poverty IRL? Without more information, Im afraid i cannot be giving you very helpful advice in this area...stay strong my friend! :cool:

I was helping u find castles word lol. It was a paraphrasing of ur post.

Thx for the well wishes tho

[Gustoo]

The ideal is 1200 players per server. Dealing with players around is as it should be.

As others mentioned, dynamic respawn.

[Zuranthium]

67 total zones. 55 are not "1-20."

Yes they are. There's stuff to kill all over the place, lots of content that usually gets ignored. Sol B is obviously not included.

How many killable mobs for lowbies in cities?

Enough to support a handful of extra players who are tired of the newbie yards and want to kill some fish or rats in peace. But again, specifically for the very low levels, respawn times should just be globally decreased for a couple weeks on a new server.

[Jimjam]

Lots of “a fish” spawn missing in cities imo.

[Castle2.0]

Yes they are. There's stuff to kill all over the place, lots of content that usually gets ignored. Sol B is obviously not included.



Enough to support a handful of extra players who are tired of the newbie yards and want to kill some fish or rats in peace. But again, specifically for the very low levels, respawn times should just be globally decreased for a couple weeks on a new server.

A few merbs on 6m 40s spawn timer. As the Aussies say, "Ya...Nah."

Ill run my Ranger (only ranger currently dual-wielding 2x Wurmslayers on ANY P99 server) and hit track to see.

[Castle2.0]

3 "Giant Rat" in all of Kaladim...

[Castle2.0]

2 "a Sled Dog" in Halas... Ya, nah.

[magnetaress]

Dweeb

[Zuranthium]

A few merbs on 6m 40s spawn timer.

Aka, something to exp on. You can't just ignore content that exists. Solo spawn camps are coveted leveling spots. A "few" in a zone is even better.

[Chortles Snortles]

I CANT PLAY THE GAME UNLESS I MONOPOLIZE AN ENTIRE ZONE
(lol)

[Castle2.0]

Aka, something to exp on. You can't just ignore content that exists. Solo spawn camps are coveted leveling spots. A "few" in a zone is even better.

Ya, lets put 50-100 newbies on 3 spawns. Good idea.

I am not saying the 3 mobs don't exist. I am just saying: [b]MATH![b]

[magnetaress]

Dweeb v2

[Ravager]

Anyone who thinks green 2.0 will get the same type of pop as green 1.0 did on launch day is deluding themselves lol. Half the pop was people who had either never played and tried it once and then left or people who got a quick nostalgia fix after not having played eq in like 20 years and then quickly left after realizing why they left in the first place years ago lol.

Green 2.0 will basically just be current p99 players shifting over to the new server

New players are coming in all the time. Or at least that's what these forums and Reddit seem to indicate. You're deluding yourself if you think you're going to be able to loot a cracked staff on day one.

[magnetaress]

more intense dweebage G-d bless yu

[Swish]

Bro that was my wasp!

https://i.imgur.com/IVNETg4.jpg

[Coridan]

Even on Green 1.0 though the split didn't happen until a couple weeks in, when we were already beyond the 200 people in Nektulos forest phase. All the split did was make places like Highhold and Steamfont empty so everyone could get groups in CB and Befallen.

[Jimjam]

I gave up on green/teal cos there was never any xp group on highpass orcs or gnolls.

Honestly, this was one of my biggest excitements for the new server - no raid scene so this classic experience of keeping the fortress safe from invading evil monsters would finally be relivable without some dorky level 50 mage breaking the illusion of spirited adventure. Yet it just didn't happen

Bah, humbug!

[Coridan]

What made me really sad was they didn't do the Bloody Kithicor event. I was a guild master at the time and I remember all the good aligned guilds being invited to Highpass Keep and meeting Firiona Vie and other named NPCs, and there being stuff for people of all levels. With Kithicor being the big event for the 40+, HH Pass for the mid levels and WC for the lower levels

[Chortles Snortles]

def remember group lvling in HH on live well into kunark

[magnetaress]

Multidweebs

[Encroaching Death]

def remember group lvling in HH on live well into kunark

I remember leveling there in Velious

[Ooloo]

What made me really sad was they didn't do the Bloody Kithicor event. I was a guild master at the time and I remember all the good aligned guilds being invited to Highpass Keep and meeting Firiona Vie and other named NPCs, and there being stuff for people of all levels. With Kithicor being the big event for the 40+, HH Pass for the mid levels and WC for the lower levels

I seem to remember there also being some kind of gm event leading up to the original release of kunark, where FV was actually kidnapped and thus the whole storyline\impetus for kunark was begun. There's a reason the zone firiona vie is called that and has a huge statue of her.

Sadly like so many gm events, it was probably slightly different on each server and so there isn't any easy way to implement those types of things here that would please everyone.

[Ravager]

I gave up on green/teal cos there was never any xp group on highpass orcs or gnolls.

Honestly, this was one of my biggest excitements for the new server - no raid scene so this classic experience of keeping the fortress safe from invading evil monsters would finally be relivable without some dorky level 50 mage breaking the illusion of spirited adventure. Yet it just didn't happen

Bah, humbug!

That's on you if you didn't /tell levelsometeennewb "gnoll/orc group looking for more."

[Jimjam]

No one wanted to leave the handbag factory in oasis :(

[Polmex]

def remember group lvling in HH on live well into kunark

Hey Chortles!!! Polmex the sk Ogre! Big fan man I took a year off and just recently came back. How you been? Did you lvl to 60 in lower guk lol?!?!

Yea I agree with you and OP. All I see now is people running around killing and not even claiming camps half the time. I enjoy being in a group and holding a small camp. I play for the massive multiplayer experience, not the solo jerk.

[Chortles Snortles]

hehe got 2nd necro to 60 in mostly kunark only
wb bud!

[PabloEdvardo]

do split green

the split was the most authentic part of the green launch, hands down

the merge ruined it

having multiple communities on the same progressing timeline is what we played in 99-01, having a single extremely top-heavy server with guild to guild competition is nothing like classic at all

evidenced by the fact that servers that got so populated on live that they started competing were forcibly split by Verant into multiple servers -- so just because some people here got accustomed to poopsocking (also unclassic) variances for their raid mobs for 16-48 hours a week doesn't mean the 99% of the population that played actual everquest back in the day wants to play that way

it's sad that a loud minority of bored and toxic tryhards have ruined the actual classic experience of playing the game PvE rather than this ridiculous PvGvP (player versus guild versus petition) experience

[Fammaden]

You're right, solid point about co-progressing servers, but we know it won't happen.

[cd288]

do split green

the split was the most authentic part of the green launch, hands down

the merge ruined it

having multiple communities on the same progressing timeline is what we played in 99-01, having a single extremely top-heavy server with guild to guild competition is nothing like classic at all

evidenced by the fact that servers that got so populated on live that they started competing were forcibly split by Verant into multiple servers -- so just because some people here got accustomed to poopsocking (also unclassic) variances for their raid mobs for 16-48 hours a week doesn't mean the 99% of the population that played actual everquest back in the day wants to play that way

it's sad that a loud minority of bored and toxic tryhards have ruined the actual classic experience of playing the game PvE rather than this ridiculous PvGvP (player versus guild versus petition) experience

Servers were split at 2,500 plus pop. Sorry that we don’t get that on p99.

[Muchew]

I don't play/spend much time here, but was curious if there's a new server in the works and saw this thread searching forum for new info. Has there been any sort of news/announcement from devs concerning a new server?

[adruidarkly]

Servers were split at 2,500 plus pop. Sorry that we don’t get that on p99.

1000 of those players weren't even fighting mobs probably just chilling at the entrance of a city chatting or going LD cause their mom picked up the phone while they were zoning for 3 minutes

[Swish]

Merge green into red. See you there friends :)

[Swish]

You're right, solid point about co-progressing servers, but we know it won't happen.

If P99 was easier to "find" and install there'd be enough people around for 2 new servers imo.

[Ananka]

I agree with Swish on the second point. If P99 didn't go through the other emulator forum and just had a single webpage with one file to click and download we would be waist high in live EQers and nostalgia casuals.

Imagine the site seeing tours through Freeport. "Yes that is poop on the ground. No don't go down that lane, that's the caster guild, those two NPC's will wreck you. Well then don't worship that evil god, now get in the sewers where you belong."

[cd288]

I agree with Swish on the second point. If P99 didn't go through the other emulator forum and just had a single webpage with one file to click and download we would be waist high in live EQers and nostalgia casuals.

Imagine the site seeing tours through Freeport. "Yes that is poop on the ground. No don't go down that lane, that's the caster guild, those two NPC's will wreck you. Well then don't worship that evil god, now get in the sewers where you belong."

Eh Idk. IMO it's really more of the fact that so many people don't even know that these emulator projects exist AT ALL.

I've lost track of the amount of times I've mentioned P99 to former EQ players either IRL or on places like Reddit and they're like "wait servers like that exist? That's awesome"

We got some good coverage around the time when Green launched and with the EQ 20 year anniversary that helped get the word out a bit, but overall so many people who played EQ back in the day have no idea that this place even exists.

[Ravager]

Enough people to fill a half dozen servers know it exists. They just know what it's actually like playing here.

[Coridan]

Enough people to fill a half dozen servers know it exists. They just know what it's actually like playing here.

I think the people who'd be mostly interested in it for the nostalgia kick are in their 40s and have 2 kids who need to go to college. Give it another 20 years when we're all in a home with shitty internet and P99 will be huge again

[Calicer]

Can't wait for my 4 year old and 6 month old kids to go to college so I can play p99 again!

[phloridaman]

I think it would work well if it was communicated ahead of time. Six months in, two servers merge for efficiency after launch.