Diff between Mage and Necro pets in Classic? Kunark?

[Vanessa]

I've heard quite a lot of mixed things between the Necro vs Mage conversations. It seems like generally speaking most people feel like Necro is the better overall class because of utility and different positions it can fill in different groups / raids etc. Whereas Mage is a really strong nuker and has diff pets for different situations with strong dmg shields.

However what I am wondering about is strictly the power of the pets and their ability to chew through mobs at certain points in the game with self buffs only.

So for example if there was a Lvl 50 Mage and Lvl 50 Necro in Classic, pre-kunark, with their pets fully self buffed (Dmg shield, summoned swords, Burnout, Augment Death etc.) and then sent those pets to attack level 40-50 mobs. Without the help of the casters, so no nukes, DoTs, heals, debuffs etc. Just the buffed pets only.

Which pet would be able to clear through more, or take on higher level mobs easier, with less chance of dying?

And the same goes for level 60 in Kunark. No epics, raid items, or group related things/help. Just the raw power of self buffed pets and their ability to take on mobs their own level, as well as 10~ levels below them?

[Chortles Snortles]

i have never seen a mage soloing in any dungeon i've soloed in thru 60
hope this helps

[Allishia]

Mage pet is way better than necro pet. Necro is better at solo though.

[cd288]

i have never seen a mage soloing in any dungeon i've soloed in thru 60
hope this helps

it can be done in certain dungeons with Earth pet, but yeah otherwise not great lol

[Toxigen]

the only reason to play a mage is to get to 55 and park as a coth bot

[magnetaress]

mage is style king and actually fun to hang out with

necro smells bad and cheats butt u don't need to group with anyone ever

[Barik]

Magician is a class centered around their pet, so yes, they have the strongest summoned pet. They are also solid additions to groups and can work in a duo/trio situation as well. Ignore the min/max talk and play what you love, the way EQ was intended to play. Hope this helps ^_^

[Chortles Snortles]

P-p-p-p-please invite me to your group!
(lol)

[Balimon]

Lol at Chortles trying to stay relevant in 2022.

As to the OPs question, I think it would be fun to test it out! I think the mage pets would always win in that scenario because of damage shield. If both pets had DS, I'm not sure, it might come down to the focus effects giving mage pets more HP.

[Chortles Snortles]

guys really i can do more than COTH
(lol)

[SamwiseRed]

mages job is to coh me and stfu

[Swish]

Mage pets have the dps edge but necros have better utility/control which is what you need if you're dungeon crawling alone.

[loramin]

IMHO, it all comes down to root. As a mage, I don't need FD, or fear, or a million DoTs (we actually do get one), or pretty much any of the rest of the Necro toolkit.

But the lack of root is a huge deal breaker. Our pet is already more powerful than the necro pet, but it could be even more powerful and it still wouldn't matter: as a mage you'll still only be able to fight in like 10% of the places a Necro can fight. Without root, you can only fight in places where there are a series of single mobs ... and if you do get an add, or anything else goes wrong, your only option is to gate (or die).

(And yes, I know the earth pet gets root, but it lasts only for seconds and can't really be used as a solution in most cases.)

The mage pet is clearly, significantly, unquestionably more powerful than the Necro pet ... but (again, speaking as a Mage player) it's a class stuck in an extremely narrow lane.

[Chortles Snortles]

summon me to the raid mob thanks
(lol)

[PatChapp]

summon me to the raid mob thanks
(lol)

Np, once your there enjoy sending mana to clerics over and over.

[Barik]

imagine being such a fucking loser that your identity is wrapped so heavily into a 20 year old emulated game.

[jadier]

If you want to basically afk by having your pet carry you, Mage. There’s no comparison in any era. Mage pets stomp necro pets. It’s laughable.

But that’s because pets are the point of mages. Pets are not the point of necros.

Necros get a weak or limited (self or undead-only) version of every single spell effect in the game (except slow & run speed). And as a necro, you’re meant to use all of them. So you do!

And thus a naked necro can solo places that a raid geared mage five levels higher would die in.

[Infectious]

imagine being such a fucking loser that your identity is wrapped so heavily into a 20 year old emulated game.


Couldn't imagine that. Try quitting a few weeks. I know my wife got off suboxine that way.

[magnetaress]

As for skele vs mage pet skele lifetaps r no joke.

Again mage style points tho.

If being powerful is all care about go necro.

If u enjoy a challenge and more straight forward strategy and ease of play or synergy with groups go mage.

Mages excell at one thing. Plowing through mobs a few levels under their pets with ease.

That is basically all of vanilla and half of kunark.

[Vanessa]

IMHO, it all comes down to root. As a mage, I don't need FD, or fear, or a million DoTs (we actually do get one), or pretty much any of the rest of the Necro toolkit.

But the lack of root is a huge deal breaker. Our pet is already more powerful than the necro pet, but it could be even more powerful and it still wouldn't matter: as a mage you'll still only be able to fight in like 10% of the places a Necro can fight. Without root, you can only fight in places where there are a series of single mobs ... and if you do get an add, or anything else goes wrong, your only option is to gate (or die).

(And yes, I know the earth pet gets root, but it lasts only for seconds and can't really be used as a solution in most cases.)

The mage pet is clearly, significantly, unquestionably more powerful than the Necro pet ... but (again, speaking as a Mage player) it's a class stuck in an extremely narrow lane.


As for skele vs mage pet skele lifetaps r no joke.

Again mage style points tho.

If being powerful is all care about go necro.

If u enjoy a challenge and more straight forward strategy and ease of play or synergy with groups go mage.

Mages excell at one thing. Plowing through mobs a few levels under their pets with ease.

That is basically all of vanilla and half of kunark.


What would you guys say is the % power level or speed of plowing through under leveled mobs difference between the Mage and Necro pets?

I don't have much interest in doing any raiding in this game, or fighting other players over those big ticket item camps. I mostly like to just run around the world and slaughter things I see. I much prefer to make money by doing coin or vendor loot camps. Things like guards, giants, camps/dungeons where mobs drop items that sell for a few plat each etc. rather than sitting still at one camp for hours on end hoping to get the item that I want to drop. I mean, I've done it before, however when you're killing the same thing for 4+ hours then have to log off and have nothing to show for it; you're just left with a defeated or wasted time feeling, so I try to avoid those types of camps.

So when considering that, it almost sounds like Mage might actually be the better choice for me. However, if there is only like a 10% difference in power / killing speed between the Mage and Necro pets, then that is pretty negligible when you consider killing mobs 10 or so levels under you. Like if it takes a lvl 50 Mages pet 8-9 seconds to kill a green a mob, but the Necro pet does it in 10 seconds. That 1-2 seconds isn't really going to matter that much to me, or might not even be noticeable. Which in that case, Necro may actually be the better choice for me after all, even if I am mostly just plowing through green mobs anyway, for the simple fact of having the mana regen and FD ability.

So I guess the real question I am wondering now is, what is the actual power level / speed of killing difference between the 2 casters pets? I think it's obvious now that Mage pets are objectively stronger than Necro pets. However, what kind of real world in-game difference does that make in fights?

Will a Water pet with a Mage dmg shield on it chew through green mobs twice as fast as Necro pets?
Will a Necro pet die twice as fast and have to be resummoned twice as often?

[cd288]

Meh. A mage will never be a deep dungeon diver like a necro but vocarate earth procs and instant root and is good enough for breaking like a generic 2 or 3 mob camp in a dungeon. Have done it multiple times.

Not the least stressful thing to do lol but it can be done

[cd288]

What would you guys say is the % power level or speed of plowing through under leveled mobs difference between the Mage and Necro pets?

I don't have much interest in doing any raiding in this game, or fighting other players over those big ticket item camps. I mostly like to just run around the world and slaughter things I see. I much prefer to make money by doing coin or vendor loot camps. Things like guards, giants, camps/dungeons where mobs drop items that sell for a few plat each etc. rather than sitting still at one camp for hours on end hoping to get the item that I want to drop. I mean, I've done it before, however when you're killing the same thing for 4+ hours then have to log off and have nothing to show for it; you're just left with a defeated or wasted time feeling, so I try to avoid those types of camps.

So when considering that, it almost sounds like Mage might actually be the better choice for me. However, if there is only like a 10% difference in power / killing speed between the Mage and Necro pets, then that is pretty negligible when you consider killing mobs 10 or so levels under you. Like if it takes a lvl 50 Mages pet 8-9 seconds to kill a green a mob, but the Necro pet does it in 10 seconds. That 1-2 seconds isn't really going to matter that much to me, or might not even be noticeable. Which in that case, Necro may actually be the better choice for me after all, even if I am mostly just plowing through green mobs anyway, for the simple fact of having the mana regen and FD ability.

So I guess the real question I am wondering now is, what is the actual power level / speed of killing difference between the 2 casters pets? I think it's obvious now that Mage pets are objectively stronger than Necro pets. However, what kind of real world in-game difference does that make in fights?

Will a Water pet with a Mage dmg shield on it chew through green mobs twice as fast as Necro pets?
Will a Necro pet die twice as fast and have to be resummoned twice as often?

I mean it’s not really a relevant comparison. As a solo player you will need to make sure you do over 50% of the damage to the mob to get full exp. So the pet isn’t that relevant. The real relevant question is how fast and how mana efficient can you do the necessary damage. Mage will always damage faster than necro due to your nukes (vs necros dotting unless you’re fighting undead), but necro mana efficiency with the later iterations of the Lich line (especially as an Iksar) cannot be matched in this comparison.

If you still want to compare pets, mage will have higher hp and damage output (I think always?) over a necro pet. Plus the fire pet has a damage shield that will not count as damage done by the pet.

That being said, I’m my experience I can level a mage faster (not including time it takes to get pet focus items once mob damage picks up) through the first like 35 or so levels than I do on a necro (send pet, nuke like twice, med the rest of the fight while pet damage (and ds if fire pet) burns down the mob). Mobs will dies faster as opposed to necro fear kiting and waiting for dots plus minimal pet damage to kill the mob. But once the necro Lich line becomes more powerful necros are basically self mana batteries so they will level much faster.

[Chortles Snortles]

NGL, The Great OoWomp was the chillest 32-39 fear kite XP i ever had, too bad
Kunark era isn't launched simultaneously

[Snaggles]

The problem is npcs scale much more aggressively than even the best pets. So killing xp mobs with mage pets isnt easy. For example a lvl 44 npc has like 4,500 hps, almost twice the mage. Without nukes that npc will kill the pet, although it would also kill the necro pet without help.

Keep in mind mage and necro gameplay is VERY different. When you have less to do you can focus on just a few things (mage). When you have more capacity you tend to push yourself harder (necro). I leveled a mage to be an underdog...so I could drink beer and farm droga when I am bored :) .

Necros have a better spellbook by BY FAR. Hell...they get root, mez, undead charm. The list goes on so I won't belabor the point.
Mages have better pets BY FAR. You can get velious pants and do Burnout3 for free; you can get a Velious robe and click a 25pt damage shield for free. You get Muzzle of Mardu for an extra 11% haste.

Both can sustain decent dps with free clickies, the mage gets a 333dd nuke on a 13.5 sec click (burnt wood staff). That same level of clicky-boom comes for a necro from Velketor the Sorcerer; I cannot recall another one off the top of my head outside VP.
Burst damage wise the mage can exceed the necro; the necro can far outlast with far higher efficiency (Splurt is like 8dpm but most xp grind fights dont last like 2 minutes).


Lastly the GOAT of necro pets is EoT; a warrior class pet. It does not quad, it bashes and has a lifetap DD. It has a ton of hps and cannot be feared. The focus book is tough to get and rare out of PoHate. Summoning it takes bone chips and a peridot so its less likely you will keep reycling for a "better" pet over a couple malachite.

The GOAT of non-epic dps pets is the water one. It quads, backstabs for about 180 max and has a 120'ish cold DD. You have to cast Valiant Companion to get fear immunity. The focus item drops off Phingal in Kedge which is a trivial 3-4 person kill. You can summon a 11% haste Muzzle for the pet too. It does about 10% more dps than an epic pet on red cons like Vindi. It does WAY more than EoT. Even the Earth pet will do more dps than EoT if you want a bit more tanky of a pet plus root which takes the heat out of some fights.

The last Miragul I did I got a max water mage pet, gave it deadwoods and a Muzzle. It parsed 65dps and beat out a 60 monk with an IFS and a 60 ranger with a Cekenar 2hs. EoT did 42dps (prob a little more with the tap proc that wasnt displayed on my parser).

It's a completely different path. I like the mage more but mostly because people crap on it. But pressuring monks on silly fights is kind of fun.

One last note (sorry), a mage can make a bunch of 10 slot giant 100% weight reducing bags on command. They will poof if you forget to sell stuff and just log out for more than like 20 minutes. DO NOT put anything of value in them. What you can do is just drop them to another character like your lvl 14 druid. Port to WC, sell, gate back. If you collect rubbish like fine steel the necro will need tinker bags and likely wont be just dropping them in a corner to another char. For that reason if you like killing in like Droga I like a mage a lot.


s a solo player you will need to make sure you do over 50% of the damage to the mob to get full exp.
Once you get Scars of Sigil it's often better to recycle pets. Summon and buff. Pull with a big nuke. Kill pet at like 5% and clean up with a single Sigil nuke. If you are just camping a single quick respawn it probably doesnt matter but just a note on the two different ways to "do over 50%".

[magnetaress]

What would you guys say is the % power level or speed of plowing through under leveled mobs difference between the Mage and Necro pets?

I don't have much interest in doing any raiding in this game, or fighting other players over those big ticket item camps. I mostly like to just run around the world and slaughter things I see. I much prefer to make money by doing coin or vendor loot camps. Things like guards, giants, camps/dungeons where mobs drop items that sell for a few plat each etc. rather than sitting still at one camp for hours on end hoping to get the item that I want to drop. I mean, I've done it before, however when you're killing the same thing for 4+ hours then have to log off and have nothing to show for it; you're just left with a defeated or wasted time feeling, so I try to avoid those types of camps.

So when considering that, it almost sounds like Mage might actually be the better choice for me. However, if there is only like a 10% difference in power / killing speed between the Mage and Necro pets, then that is pretty negligible when you consider killing mobs 10 or so levels under you. Like if it takes a lvl 50 Mages pet 8-9 seconds to kill a green a mob, but the Necro pet does it in 10 seconds. That 1-2 seconds isn't really going to matter that much to me, or might not even be noticeable. Which in that case, Necro may actually be the better choice for me after all, even if I am mostly just plowing through green mobs anyway, for the simple fact of having the mana regen and FD ability.

So I guess the real question I am wondering now is, what is the actual power level / speed of killing difference between the 2 casters pets? I think it's obvious now that Mage pets are objectively stronger than Necro pets. However, what kind of real world in-game difference does that make in fights?

Will a Water pet with a Mage dmg shield on it chew through green mobs twice as fast as Necro pets?
Will a Necro pet die twice as fast and have to be resummoned twice as often?



Mage is noticeably faster in all cases where the mob is almost green upto lvl 40 for sure.
Will a Water pet with a Mage dmg shield on it chew through green mobs twice as fast as Necro pets?
Will a Necro pet die twice as fast and have to be resummoned twice as often?

Air or fire is generally better in these cases. Air stun is super underrated. Especially when it lands every time.

Yes

[PatChapp]

Mage levels very fast up to 55 or so if they know their doing. Once you start doing the one pet per mob method in high 30s, you start killing for very low mana cost. Very fast and effective,but dies off a bit at 55+ when the good mage spots slow down a bit.

[cd288]

Think they nerfed the chain summoning thing. Unless you’re saying single spawn let the pet get it down to like 20% and die?

[PatChapp]

Let pet get mob to within 5%, reclaim and nuke to kill for full xp.
The only mana spent is on pet summoning, burnout, damage shield and one nuke. You also get to med the entire fight.

[Vanessa]

Let pet get mob to within 5%, reclaim and nuke to kill for full xp.
The only mana spent is on pet summoning, burnout, damage shield and one nuke. You also get to med the entire fight.

So you summon a pet, buff with burnout and damage shield, then send it to attack 1 mob. When the mob is under 5-10%, reclaim the pet and nuke the mob dead?

Is that really the way most solo Mages level 30+?
Whats the pets HP at usually when an equal level mob gets to that 5-10% range?

[Swish]

So you summon a pet, buff with burnout and damage shield, then send it to attack 1 mob. When the mob is under 5-10%, reclaim the pet and nuke the mob dead?

Is that really the way most solo Mages level 30+?
Whats the pets HP at usually when an equal level mob gets to that 5-10% range?

Protip for something easier. Find a duo partner (healer or pet class) and not worry about having the pet take 50% of the XP :)

[loramin]

So you summon a pet, buff with burnout and damage shield, then send it to attack 1 mob. When the mob is under 5-10%, reclaim the pet and nuke the mob dead?

Is that really the way most solo Mages level 30+?
Whats the pets HP at usually when an equal level mob gets to that 5-10% range?

Alternatively you can chain summon.


Summon and buff earth pet
Send it in to fight
When it reaches 10-20% health (depending on the mob) start casting a new pet
NOTE: The mob should be below 50% by now, but if it's not you'll want to add a DoT or a single nuke
While the spell is casting, type "/pet get lost" and hit enter just before it finishes casting
(I usually use SHIFT + UP so I don't actually have to retype during combat)
I usually at least DS the second pet, and sometimes haste it too. If you have the Velious armor clickies (and some patience) you can even do it mana free


Your old pet will then poof just before the new pet arrives, but your new pet won't have agro yet. Usually that's ok, as your old pet will have left a few seconds of root behind. That gives your new pet time to proc another root, and after that agro doesn't matter.

If your old pet didn't proc root, or it wears off before the new pet lands root, you get to run around for a bit until your new pet does land root. Phantom armor is handy for keeping your HP at 100% in case something like this happens.

[PatChapp]

So you summon a pet, buff with burnout and damage shield, then send it to attack 1 mob. When the mob is under 5-10%, reclaim the pet and nuke the mob dead?

Is that really the way most solo Mages level 30+?
Whats the pets HP at usually when an equal level mob gets to that 5-10% range?
It's very effective in a bunch of spots. 49-55 it works great at seafuries and troll guards for instance.
Mage can kill more seafuries per hour than equal level necros with this method

If you wind up with a low lvl pet vs high lvl mob, sometimes you need to add a nuke to even it out.

Other good spots for this are butcher block dwarves, very good 39-49. Ogre guards to,but you need j boots to kite adds.

It's not how every mage levels,a lot of people like to sit in front of a 6min spawn and clear it while mostly afk.
Mages very good for this as well

[Snaggles]

Yea it’s mainly a factor of how much you want to kill like PatChapp said. Racing your pet is fine but once you are done you often have less mana and a damaged pet, not the most ideal setup for the second target. I "raced" most my grind but found recycling let me kill two 6 min spawns instead of the one.

Thr necro will have more options and may be more fun. I dealt with the nuances of mage life to 60 and am glad I did. My necro is 54 with a CoS and probably will stay that way.

[Allishia]

Alternatively you can chain summon.


Summon and buff earth pet
Send it in to fight
When it reaches 10-20% health (depending on the mob) start casting a new pet
NOTE: The mob should be below 50% by now, but if it's not you'll want to add a DoT or a single nuke
While the spell is casting, type "/pet get lost" and hit enter just before it finishes casting
(I usually use SHIFT + UP so I don't actually have to retype during combat)
I usually at least DS the second pet, and sometimes haste it too. If you have the Velious armor clickies (and some patience) you can even do it mana free


Your old pet will then poof just before the new pet arrives, but your new pet won't have agro yet. Usually that's ok, as your old pet will have left a few seconds of root behind. That gives your new pet time to proc another root, and after that agro doesn't matter.

If your old pet didn't proc root, or it wears off before the new pet lands root, you get to run around for a bit until your new pet does land root. Phantom armor is handy for keeping your HP at 100% in case something like this happens.

Just wanted to add it is a lot easier to make a social button for the pet get lost. You have to click it in the social window though, it won't work on hot bars...you can be really good timing with the button vs typing or shift uping /nod

[Jimjam]

Protip for something easier. Find a duo partner (healer or pet class) and not worry about having the pet take 50% of the XP :)

Even duoing with a warrior is worth it to help pulls and off tanking. As the warrior has an xp bonus you’re making more xp with an equivalent level warrior sat there afk in group than soloing losing 50% with pet.

I did a lot of duoing with a war/mage on red about 10-30. I felt like my war wasn’t pullinf it’s weight at all, but the mage claimed the xp was far superior than solo (obv red has further bonus on top of warrior bonus and negation of pet solo penalty).

Tldr try red?

[loramin]

Just wanted to add it is a lot easier to make a social button for the pet get lost. You have to click it in the social window though, it won't work on hot bars...you can be really good timing with the button vs typing or shift uping /nod

For me SHIFT + UP + ENTER is super fast, but I never knew you could click the social button, when it's not on a hotbar (TIL ...)

Personally I don't even leave that pane open normally, because I use hotbars instead, but if I'm feeling lazy I might try it that way: thanks Allishia!

[Jimjam]

For me SHIFT + UP + ENTER is super fast, but I never knew you could click the social button, when it's not on a hotbar (TIL ...)

Personally I don't even leave that pane open normally, because I use hotbars instead, but if I'm feeling lazy I might try it that way: thanks Allishia!

It’s important to keep the social page open / accessible as it is the only way to cancel time consuming macros containing a lot of /pause.

[loramin]

Tldr try red?

Not you too Jimjam? ;)

https://y.yarn.co/661d748c-bea1-448e-9739-508e00f1fbd2_text.gif

[Jimjam]

Not you too Jimjam? ;)

https://y.yarn.co/661d748c-bea1-448e-9739-508e00f1fbd2_text.gif

I’ll get my red warrior to 60, no matter how many bats it takes!!

The red community is actually super nice atm btw.

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/XFAPNND.gif

[loramin]

The red community is actually super nice atm btw.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/12jgE4yEzb2Ywg/giphy.gif

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/DeeOyem.gif

[Allishia]

For me SHIFT + UP + ENTER is super fast, but I never knew you could click the social button, when it's not on a hotbar (TIL ...)

Personally I don't even leave that pane open normally, because I use hotbars instead, but if I'm feeling lazy I might try it that way: thanks Allishia!

You are welcome, I didn't know either till I was messing up spelling it and wasted my epic charge. Complained about it and then someone told me about the social page option lol :)

[loramin]

Ah crap, I realized (on re-reading my own quote) that I misspelled your name: apologies!

[Chortles Snortles]

downboated

[Bardp1999]

I believe the necro rogue pet can out damage a mage pet if someone is tanking, but in any solo situation, necro pets die far too easily until Emissary of Thule.

Gratz on 60 Chorts, condolences on the fat/angry/bald

[PatChapp]

The mage water pets from the vocerate line also backstab

[Homesteaded]

Ignore the haters. Mage is super fun, and powerful 55+.

So is a necro.

[branamil]

Mage pets are technically a little better but the rest of the toolkit is so ass its kind of irrelevant. When necros can haste, root, mez, fear, snare, FD, and charm, its not really a comparison. Kind of a waste that mages are so shafted this era

[Chortles Snortles]

sorry mages :(

[Obrae]

Yeah they are particulary shafted here on p99, there is a hate group getting em nerfed.
They are defenitly alot weaker than what they were on live.

In 99 the pets were much tougher. More defense ? i don't know but i could never do here what i did in 99, not even with the epic pet. Compared to normal pets in 99.

Still a fun class, just a bit sad the staff here is hating on them and sucking on chanters :)

[Jimjam]

Mob attack/defence values seem very different here to classic live. I guess they are best guest numbers, but they seem balanced around better gear (so making pets poorer).