Enchanter Religion

[Chris1479]

I'm an enchanter level 8 and I chose Mithaniel Marr as my religion, how screwed am I? Is it a real pain in the ass in later levels?:)

[PatChapp]

I would reroll. Religion is worthless for enchanters and it could be annoying for a few things.

[Chris1479]

Ok that's one vote for a reroll, sucks I'm gonna have to buy all my spells again - took hours to earn that PP.

[Raj]

Religion is pretty cool if you want to roleplay a follower of that God though :cool:

[Infectious]

Religion is pretty cool if you want to roleplay a follower of that God though :cool:

Reroll agnostic. You will regret it later

[Saaxir Asimatenya]

I played an enchanter that followed Tunare to get cultural armor. Didn't effect me too much, but I didn't have much desire to go to evil cities anyway.

[Trexller]

enchanters HAVE GOT to be Agnostic, otherwise most of your illusion spells are basically worthless.

[Humerox]

enchanters HAVE GOT to be Agnostic, otherwise most of your illusion spells are basically worthless.

THIS.

[Raj]

I'd argue some neutral races like gnomes, humans, erudites will be pretty okay worshiping fairly neutral gods if they want to....orr even evil gods. People go on and on about the nice faction benefits of Innoruuk worshiping human clerics or Berty worshiping gnome necros for example :cool:

PS Faction matters most in Velious and all this faction talk in this thread is about old world....enchanters get invis super early and also their +Faction spells pretty early too. Worshiping a deity is most precarious if you mix it with being an evil race dark elf or "Good" race High elf. :cool:

PPS Erudite gives you permanent +5? MR, Gnome is perma wall-look hacks without casting a spell and are cute to many players, gnome Bertoxxulous worshiper seems to perfectly mesh well w the campaigns of carnage and death most P99 enchanters seem to leave in their wake. :cool:

[tadkins]

Imo there's nothing wrong with picking a deity if you want to for RP reasons. If you see your character as a champion of good and honor, go with Mithaniel Marr. You get a lot of tools to get by manipulating whatever NPCs you need to as time goes on.

The only thing it will affect is some factions and how your illusions work. On my Tunare high elf enchanter, my dude was scowling to certain NPCs in Neriak despite dark elf illusion. And he will have to wait till 16 to do the stein of moggok quest due to Clurg being apprehensive as a dark elf. But that was totally okay knowing I was playing the flavor of character I wanted.

It is a shame that deities are seen as a trap choice for enchanter but I think many of them are pretty cool with the theme of the class.

An erudite Prexus enchanter could model themselves after one of the infamous sea creatures of legend, the Sirens.

A Brell enchanter makes sense too, given all the metals and gems that enchanters work with.

A Bertoxxulous human enchanter working for the Bloodsaber cult, charming and luring victims into the sewers to be turned into minions or sacrificed to the plague lord, how badass is that?

And so on...

Play to the flavor you want for your character, you can make up for the shortcomings later. :)

[Chris1479]

Imo there's nothing wrong with picking a deity if you want to for RP reasons. If you see your character as a champion of good and honor, go with Mithaniel Marr. You get a lot of tools to get by manipulating whatever NPCs you need to as time goes on.

The only thing it will affect is some factions and how your illusions work. On my Tunare high elf enchanter, my dude was scowling to certain NPCs in Neriak despite dark elf illusion. And he will have to wait till 16 to do the stein of moggok quest due to Clurg being apprehensive as a dark elf. But that was totally okay knowing I was playing the flavor of character I wanted.

It is a shame that deities are seen as a trap choice for enchanter but I think many of them are pretty cool with the theme of the class.

An erudite Prexus enchanter could model themselves after one of the infamous sea creatures of legend, the Sirens.

A Brell enchanter makes sense too, given all the metals and gems that enchanters work with.

A Bertoxxulous human enchanter working for the Bloodsaber cult, charming and luring victims into the sewers to be turned into minions or sacrificed to the plague lord, how badass is that?

And so on...

Play to the flavor you want for your character, you can make up for the shortcomings later. :)

Tbh I have a funny feeling I picked Mithaniel Marr originally because I may have read somewhere that there was some deity-specific item for High Elf Enchanters that worship Mithaniel Marr? I may have to google around and try work it out.

Annoying thing is, my other character can make Imbued Elven Chainmail - which would actually look badass on my HIE ENC - but for that I'd have to worship Tunare and who wants a high-AC tank enchanter anyway :)

[Jimjam]

Enchanters need follow no gods - they are gods!

There is your agnostic justification.

Otherwise I agree with Tadkins - the spice the religions add to the character is worth the drawbacks.

[Toxigen]

.

Otherwise I agree with Tadkins - the spice the religions add to the character is worth the drawbacks.

its really not tho

[PatChapp]

Religion only adds some junk items and headaches to enchanters.

[Swish]

Religion only adds some junk items and headaches to enchanters.

[Cen]

Mith marr is a little dangerous of a pick for an enchanter, it carries heavy negatives in some places. Unfortunetly, with the enchanter class, every religion you have options to choose are generally a bad idea. You don't get any low-no modifier religions such as Bristlebane, Solusek Ro, or Veeshan.

However, for other classes, if minmaxing, you should always choose Veeshan and Solusek in that order when given the option, as you only get positive faction modifiers for those and no (veeshan) or extremely low (solusek) negatives.

[tadkins]

Religion only adds some junk items and headaches to enchanters.

In most cases, a deity won't even give you the junk items. Only Tunare really gets anything.

But some folks do genuinely care about their character flavor, and feeling like they belong in certain areas. It's not that hard to work around whatever faction issues you end up getting as an enchanter.

[Jimjam]

It's not that hard to work around whatever faction issues you end up getting as an enchanter.

exactly - it adds a little to gameplay without being overly challenging (in the case of encs).

[PatChapp]

Is a tunare enchanter in iksar form still non kos in cabilis? That are de form in third gate are the only ones that would really matter in terms of getting your snake.

Maybe ogguk to

[magnetaress]

Enchanters should worship RNG so Bristlebane

[sajbert]

A non-agnostic enchanter is still gonna a top tier class to pick. It's still an enchanter and you can still get through many issues using charm and paci.

I'm there are a few more unfortunate faction picks than others but really, if you want to pick a deity, do it.

[cd288]

I'd argue some neutral races like gnomes, humans, erudites will be pretty okay worshiping fairly neutral gods if they want to....orr even evil gods. People go on and on about the nice faction benefits of Innoruuk worshiping human clerics or Berty worshiping gnome necros for example :cool:

PS Faction matters most in Velious and all this faction talk in this thread is about old world....enchanters get invis super early and also their +Faction spells pretty early too. Worshiping a deity is most precarious if you mix it with being an evil race dark elf or "Good" race High elf. :cool:

PPS Erudite gives you permanent +5? MR, Gnome is perma wall-look hacks without casting a spell and are cute to many players, gnome Bertoxxulous worshiper seems to perfectly mesh well w the campaigns of carnage and death most P99 enchanters seem to leave in their wake. :cool:

Well if we’re talking old world here’s a simple example of how a good deity religion could affect your enchanter. Doing the stein of moggok quest if you aren’t a DE you’ll need to illusion into one to go into oggok to get the stein. If you are not agnostic I believe that could cause you some problems including not being able to do the quest. IMO for such an easy quest that gives you a great enchanter item until you replace it with raid drops later on, that’s a pretty significant impact.

[cd288]

its really not tho

It is if that’s how you enjoy the game

[unsunghero]

I went agnostic as advised and only visited evil cities once in 57 levels to do the stein of moggok quest where I promptly sold the stein because rod of grandeur + crude stein is better

I have no idea if there are other benefits to visiting evil cities other than to maybe sell stuff?

[Jimjam]

I have no idea if there are other benefits to visiting evil cities other than to maybe sell stuff?

Killing the guards. :D:p:o;):rolleyes::cool:

[PatChapp]

I went agnostic as advised and only visited evil cities once in 57 levels to do the stein of moggok quest where I promptly sold the stein because rod of grandeur + crude stein is better

I have no idea if there are other benefits to visiting evil cities other than to maybe sell stuff?

Non kos in iksar form is a great boon if you ever want to do the epic,as is non kos in neriak 3rd gate

I'm not sure if tunare/etc is able to do that

[tadkins]

Is a tunare enchanter in iksar form still non kos in cabilis? That are de form in third gate are the only ones that would really matter in terms of getting your snake.

Maybe ogguk to

Can't say for sure about Cabilis as an iksar as I never got that high with my enchanter (it's honestly just too tough a class for me) but as a Tunare high elf with dark elf illusion I was totally fine in the clerics area of Third Gate. So if he ever got to the point of doing the epic he'd be safe around Verina.

He was KoS to The Dead NPCs but that's about it. Pretty easily fixable. Dunno if skeleton illusion would have helped more. Had a human necro that went from glares to kindly with some groups in Neriak when he got to 34. If that wasn't enough, there would be the enhanced faction alliance spells. And if that still wasn't far enough, a ganking or two of Dragoon Szorn would very likely fix it. :)

There was a major hurdle though. At 12 I attempted to do the Stein of Moggok quest, but as an illusioned dark elf with Alliance on Clurg, he was still apprehensive and wouldn't take the book. Probably would have had to wait till 20 with Ogre illusion to do that. Ah well. But yep there really doesn't seem to be any situation with that character that isn't fixable with a little work or more levels.

The more I thought about it, the tougher time I would have playing an agnostic neutral enchanter anyway. With a game like EQ I feel like I really need to pick a side. My tunare enchanter had no issue doing bandit sashes and he probably would have killed troll/ogre/DE guards later. If I rolled an evil enchanter I would feel far better about killing druids/good city guards and the like.

[unsunghero]

I never killed any guards because I didn’t want to mess up factions that I also ended up not really needing

I always found as good or better money-making alternatives than guard killing tbh

[Sirquestalot]

Amazing. For the number of people who profess to know a lot about enchanters, I wonder how many know jack squat. About quests as well.

Stein of Moggok: Ogre illusion for Oggok is better than dark elf, but for those who don't want to wait until 20, here's a tip: just don't be kos (dubious is fine), open trade with clurg and invis up. Indifferent is high enough to complete the quest. duh

Epic: You're goal is to Kill Vessel Drozlin and Verina Tomb.... let's think about that. "Oh, please, gods, don't let me be kos to a mob I'm GOING TO KILL." Heaven forbid.

A serious answer for the question posed earlier: Tunare is going to be an obstacle to just walking around in Iksar illusion in Cabilis. Yes. But what do you really need in there? If you ARE interested in raising your faction there, you should know that the shaman's guild in Cabilis really REALLY hate enchanters, that being layered on top of the deity hate. I know this because I've done (most of) the work on my Tunare high elf enchanter. I'm up to dubious in iksar illusion with Collaboration, so I'll be able to finish off the faction work, and if you remind me later on, I'll tell you what Tunare enchanters cap out with.

Lastly, the only REAL issue you're going to have as a good deity-worshipping enchanter is if you WANT the Venril Sathir faction to get the Worker Sledgemallet through the non-charm method. It is my plan to do that also, but even in dark elf illusion and Collaboration, I'm still threatening. And yes, I have a plan for this. The easier method is having help from a druid or ranger with Harmony, The riskier method is throwing Wave of Tranquility and hope none of that line of skeletons resists and agros. Either way, ivu and done.

Of course, 99% of EQ players are going to think I'm crazy and I should just charm the foreman. And you're right, but we're all adults playing a 20+ year old video game, so which of us is fit to throw stones? It's all about how we each enjoy playing.

[tadkins]

I never killed any guards because I didn’t want to mess up factions that I also ended up not really needing

I always found as good or better money-making alternatives than guard killing tbh

I wish I knew a better way to consistently make money besides guard killing. But everything along those lines seems to always be camped, or requires a lot of skill I simply don't have.

oh well fuck da police

[Swish]

Literally pick something good or evil and go at the opposite/kos to you guards, hours of amusement making city guards kill each other :D

[cd288]

I went agnostic as advised and only visited evil cities once in 57 levels to do the stein of moggok quest where I promptly sold the stein because rod of grandeur + crude stein is better

I have no idea if there are other benefits to visiting evil cities other than to maybe sell stuff?

Epic and some other things you get a lot of benefit out of as agnostic enchanter, but that’s more kunark, velious, end game etc type stuff rather than general old world type stuff

[PatChapp]

Amazing. For the number of people who profess to know a lot about enchanters, I wonder how many know jack squat. About quests as well.



Epic: You're goal is to Kill Vessel Drozlin and Verina Tomb.... let's think about that. "Oh, please, gods, don't let me be kos to a mob I'm GOING TO KILL." Heaven forbid.

Vessel and verina are indifferent to all
It's the mobs around where you charm guards that would be the issue with being kill on sight in cabilis, and being kill on sight to the guards in third gate would be a complete pain for doing verina.
You would need another enchanter to pull her,the guards do not assist.

[tadkins]

Vessel and verina are indifferent to all
It's the mobs around where you charm guards that would be the issue with being kill on sight in cabilis, and being kill on sight to the guards in third gate would be a complete pain for doing verina.
You would need another enchanter to pull her,the guards do not assist.

With Verina, you'll only have problems as a Tunare enchanter if you go further than you need to. The guards near the spires are on Priests of Innoruuk faction which you're fine with. It's only if you go further and run into Kszan Punox (https://wiki.project1999.com/Kszan_Punox) that you'll have problems.

Could be different with Cabilis, not sure though.

[Cen]

Enchanters should worship RNG so Bristlebane

You can't do that. If you could, it would be a perfectly fine diety pick due to having very few negative modifiers in the whole game.

[Sirquestalot]

Yeah, I'm still not getting something, but that might be because I haven't done an enchanter epic in a million years, and that one time, it was on live, far beyond the Velious era. If you're pulling Verina or Vessel, I'm assuming you're not doing it alone, and quite probably, it's not even the enchanter doing the pulling. But let's say you are... are we talking some mobs in the way that are immune to pacify? And re: Kszan, I KNOW a 40 guard isn't going to be an issue for an enchanter who can solo a 60, right?

[Encroaching Death]

Enchanters should worship RNG so Bristlebane

They should actually be forced to worship Bristlebane.

They're full of illusion and trickery.

Warriors should be forced to worship Rallos Zek too.

Fuck it. Wizards should be forced to to worship Solusek Ro.

And America should be forced to worship Jesus.

Seek Redemption. Stop watching furry porn.

[unsunghero]

Didn’t want to make a new thread in casters, but what is better dps for charmed pet? Max lev spell haste or torch?

Refuse to do both soloing because it’s not worth the great personal risk of death for a slightly faster kill rate. Also don’t like having to plant pets super far away. One stun interruption and that could be all she wrote

So considering one or the other, which is better dps? I almost think torch still beats spell haste based on just observing how fast other mobs’s health drops

[PatChapp]

Yeah, I'm still not getting something, but that might be because I haven't done an enchanter epic in a million years, and that one time, it was on live, far beyond the Velious era. If you're pulling Verina or Vessel, I'm assuming you're not doing it alone, and quite probably, it's not even the enchanter doing the pulling. But let's say you are... are we talking some mobs in the way that are immune to pacify? And re: Kszan, I KNOW a 40 guard isn't going to be an issue for an enchanter who can solo a 60, right?

Vessel in particular is often a race on these servers. Extremely contested mob.
So you grab a guard,and because your kos you agro another guard on your way to the tunnel. Now you need to mez and blur it off,holding you up 30s-min and taking mana from a tough fight
You lose the race and continue your sock.

Enchanters can't solo verina,but if they're non kos they can make the fight extra simple.
You rapture her,Tash and slow. Blur it off and pull her to your group at the zone in,walking right past all the non hostile guards

[Jimjam]

They should actually be forced to worship Bristlebane.

They're full of illusion and trickery.

Warriors should be forced to worship Rallos Zek too.

Fuck it. Wizards should be forced to to worship Solusek Ro.

And America should be forced to worship Jesus.

Seek Redemption. Stop watching furry porn.

Wipe server clean and make a true eq2 with bristlebane enchanters, barbarian bards and halfling shadow knights (also of bristlebane).

[tadkins]

And America should be forced to worship Jesus.
Too much of America already worships Bertoxxulous.

Seek Redemption. Stop watching furry porn.

never!

[Encroaching Death]

Too much of America already worships Bertoxxulous.



never!

HEATHEN

[Trelaboon]

I’ve never once, in the many years I’ve played Enchanters been like “phew I’m glad I went agnostic!”

I honestly wreck almost every faction killing guards anyway so it has never mattered. I don’t think it matters at all, but if you want to play it safe, now is the time to reroll, not later.

[Jimjam]

I’ve never once, in the many years I’ve played Enchanters been like “phew I’m glad I went agnostic!”

I honestly wreck almost every faction killing guards anyway so it has never mattered. I don’t think it matters at all, but if you want to play it safe, now is the time to reroll, not later.

Starting with bad faction gives you more scope for character progression though.

Can do crazy things like get non KoS to Bloodsabers on a Karana druid to negotiate a truce. Kinda sad I can't equip her a Poison Wind Censer to summon a Gale of Poison with her combined rain and disease powers!

[spoil]

Is there anything cool you can do as an agnostic enchanter that you can't do as good or evil-aligned? Just curious for some examples beyond quests like stein of mogguk, anything relevant more towards a max level enchanter.

[Videri]

Is there anything cool you can do as an agnostic enchanter that you can't do as good or evil-aligned? Just curious for some examples beyond quests like stein of mogguk, anything relevant more towards a max level enchanter.

Using Illusions alongside Alliance/Benevolence/Collaboration to become non-KOS in places such as The Overthere, Oggok, Grobb, Neriak, and Paineel. If your deity is Good, it might not work as well. Likewise for choosing an evil deity and waltzing around Felwithe with your High Elf face on...you might get a holy smackdown. I haven't checked. Agnostic definitely grants flexibility.

And since religions weren't fleshed out very well in this era of EQ, I don't really see what's to be gained by picking one. If other players could view your religion, that would be different, but they can't. You could claim your character worships Shakira. How are other players going to know? Just pick Agnostic, then roleplay that you follow a deity. Easy

[spoil]

I just prefer not to be agnostic in an elf simulator, unless there's a compelling reason for it.

[DeliciousHalflings]

I just prefer not to be agnostic in an elf simulator, unless there's a compelling reason for it.

The post above yours literally explains the most compelling reason - being able to function in places you'd otherwise be KOS in.

If a character doesn't have a surname or jboots, it's always a good idea to reroll if it's suboptimal.

[Jimjam]

Yeah optimal is halfling warrior btw. All toons need to reroll as halfling warrior to be optimal. Tbh even if they already got jboots.

[spoil]

The post above yours literally explains the most compelling reason - being able to function in places you'd otherwise be KOS in.

If a character doesn't have a surname or jboots, it's always a good idea to reroll if it's suboptimal.

We just have different ideas of compelling. I get why agnostic is preferred but I don't care about having to use invis in a couple zones that I will barely pass through. OT I'm going to have bad faction anyways and it's easy to bank there regardless. I was just wondering if there were any other limitations that I hadn't considered.

[Ooloo]

I recently rolled an enchanter for the first time ever and I chose agnostic as per the wiki advice. Up to lvl 32 now and I'm definitely enjoying being able to go to any city by just using the illusion for that race.

I'm also just really enjoying the class overall, it's a ton of fun. Other than pally and ranger it's the only EQ class I've never tried before. Any general tips for somebody new to the class? Things that might not be obvious? I have a good idea generally what enchs do having been in many groups with them on other classes. I've got charm killing down pretty tight now using a gazughi ring. It's so fun to be able to mez\lull\charm and having both invis and invu in the spellbook I can slip around almost anywhere.