How good is greenmist really?

[ya.dingus]

I know, it's a good weapon, but I'm not even talking about the ratios and stats, I'm talking strictly about its proc.

I've heard you can weapon swap on procs and basically double dip with your 2h epic for the lifetap dot.

Is this really that good to be picking iksar over say troll or ogre?

Also, do the other races have things that compensate race wise or is it all just flavor at that point?

[Andyman1022]

If you plan on getting Innoruuk's Curse, Greenmist is a little bit moot. I've discussed this with some folks back when I was soloing my SK from 55-60 in the hole. My SK had Greenmist and the 2hand epic, and around 190 dex. It is a real noticeable difference in dps, and by the time you procced both to stack, you would be better off re-applying the 50 hp a tick from the epic vs the GM.

That said, GM is still a wonderful tanking weapon, and is much more accessible than IC.

[ya.dingus]

How difficult is IC to get, or is it even multiquestable? I play solo mostly, and plat generation would be what I'd be using to acquire it.

Also, if you get IC, would you still use the GM for tanking over it?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I know, it's a good weapon, but I'm not even talking about the ratios and stats, I'm talking strictly about its proc.

I've heard you can weapon swap on procs and basically double dip with your 2h epic for the lifetap dot.

Is this really that good to be picking iksar over say troll or ogre?

Also, do the other races have things that compensate race wise or is it all just flavor at that point?

The problem is Iksars can't use Blood Ember clickies, but every other SK race can. You are sacrificing Blood Ember clickies for an item that will be replaced by your Epic. As Andyman says, it isn't worth stacking the procs unfortunately.

Greenmist proc is 30 Damage a tick over 8 ticks, so the cap on it is 300 damage per minute if you keep re-procing it.

Epic proc proc is 50 Damage a tick over 5 tick, so the cap on it is 500 damage per minute if you keep reprocing it.

Stacking the DoTs isn't worth it. Best case is if you proc both within 12 seconds, you will get a total of 490 damage if you don't proc again, vs. 350 from proccing Epic twice within 12 seconds.

The 140 extra HP will probably end up getting lost, because you are lowering your DPS by swinging with Greenmist. Even if it doesn't get lost, Blood Ember clickies will help you more than the rare perfect DoT stack.

[Snaggles]

Let’s not get lost in the weeds over Blood Ember armor again.

The only comparison here that makes sense is the IC vs GM. Both epic and semi-epic quests. Both with hp taps which besides an invig BP (about 7hp/sec while clicking) or a fungi. (2.5hp/sec) is your only mana-free way to keep hps up.

The Epic is easily buyable and can be MQ’ed. Hell you can just loot it since it drops off Lhranc. That said I can’t imagine getting a soul leach for less than 80k. With the other stuff and a fight I’d assume this is a 130-150k buy.

The Greenmist MQ to like the 6th Kukri is around 15k. Throw in a few little parts like the golem fight and borrowing someone’s Drussila mirror and you are done.

The epic proc is 50hps/damage per tick. It’s a -200 check will land on a lot of raid stuff. There is no other component so aggro wise it’s basically 8dps for the dot alone. Exceptionally low aggro. 5 ticks = 250hp. It’s noticeably more dps, even the white damage. Stats are better and you get 2h bash, no race restrictions.

The Greenmist is a 0 check disease check. It will get resisted on stuff. There is an AC and Str tap component (ac is huge aggro). It’s 30hp/dmg per tick. 6 ticks = 180 hps. It’s a 1h so it’s less dps but you can use a shield; if you raid flurry or Sev shields are very easy to get. The stats are really nice, no hps but 25MR is underrated. You can pull aggro on VS/R and wipe your guild with one…someone did to mine :)

No single piece of gear will make a race worth playing if you don’t like it at the char creation screen. Raid gear levels the playing field. Most knight spells are very low mana to cast so it’s the skill behind the char more than the size of your HP or mana pool. If you are a fatty, great. If you love Iksars, awsome. If you go with a small non-perked race, no problem. The epic is always possible…if you farm fine steel or have a guild that occasionally races for golems. It’s just going to take more time or plat to get it done than the Greenmist.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Let’s not get lost in the weeds over Blood Ember armor again.

The only comparison here that makes sense is the IC vs GM. Both epic and semi-epic quests. Both with hp taps which besides an invig BP (about 7hp/sec while clicking) or a fungi. (2.5hp/sec) is your only mana-free way to keep hps up.

The Epic is easily buyable and can be MQ’ed. Hell you can just loot it since it drops off Lhranc. That said I can’t imagine getting a soul leach for less than 80k. With the other stuff and a fight I’d assume this is a 130-150k buy.

The Greenmist MQ to like the 6th Kukri is around 15k. Throw in a few little parts like the golem fight and borrowing someone’s Drussila mirror and you are done.

The epic proc is 50hps/damage per tick. It’s a -200 check will land on a lot of raid stuff. There is no other component so aggro wise it’s basically 8dps for the dot alone. 5 Exceptionally low aggro. 5 ticks = 250hp. It’s noticeably more dps, even the white damage. Stats are better and you get 2h bash, no race restrictions.

The Greenmist is a 0 check disease check. It will get resisted on stuff. There is an AC and Str tap component (ac is huge aggro). It’s 30hp/dmg per tick. 6 ticks = 180 hps. It’s a 1h so it’s less dps but you can use a shield; if you raid flurry or Sev shields are very easy to get. The stats are really nice, no hps but 25MR is underrated. You can pull aggro on VS/R and wipe your guild with one…someone did to mine :)

No single piece of gear will make a race worth playing if you don’t like it at the char creation screen. Raid gear levels the playing field. Most knight spells are very low aggro to cast so it’s the skill behind the char more than the size of your HP or mana pool. If you are a fatty, great. If you love Iksars, awsome. If you go with a small non-perked race, no problem. The epic is always possible…if you farm fine steel or have a guild that occasionally races for golems. It’s just going to take more time or plat to get it done than the Greenmist.

We aren't getting "lost in the weeds" when talking about Blood Ember. That is the trade off. Iksar's get Greenmist, other races get Blood Ember. Unfortunately we don't get the update to Greenmist that removes the Iksar-only restriction.

Obviously if you like Iksar, play Iksar and get Greenmist. But OP seems to be open to many SK races since he is asking about race.

Wiki says Greenmist is 30 damage over 8 ticks. Is it wrong, or did you type the number of ticks wrong? Genuinely curious since I don't have a Greenmist to test that myself.

I do agree the 25 MR is nice, but if you are able to get a Sev shield, you can just get an Axe of Resistance if you want high resists on a weapon. Using Axe of Resistance + Sarnak Battle Shield + Runed Bone fork is 40 MR/CR/FR. Greenmist + Sarnak Battle Shield + Stone of Morid is 35 MR 40 CR/FR. Greenmist isn't going to give you a leg up in the end if resistance gear is your goal.

[Snaggles]

No, I typed it wrong. Forgot it was 240 over the course of the dot, not 180.

You can’t compare an axe of resistance to a normal 1h knight weapon. I can’t imagine trying to keep aggro (or kill something) with that since any 19/24’ish or better ratio is a struggle.

This is a case of “play what you want”. The scope of what a knight does in a group/raid or what it can while solo doesn’t come down to that last little toy. It’s pretty easy to make an argument for any race. Even leveling speed is a factor because the slog from 54-60 delays your end game activities.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No, I typed it wrong. Forgot it was 240 over the course of the dot, not 180.

You can’t compare an axe of resistance to a normal 1h knight weapon. I can’t imagine trying to keep aggro (or kill something) with that since any 19/24’ish or better ratio is a struggle.

This is a case of “play what you want”. The scope of what a knight does in a group/raid or what it can while solo doesn’t come down to that last little toy. It’s pretty easy to make an argument for any race. Even leveling speed is a factor because the slog from 54-60 delays your end game activities.

When it comes to Axe of Resistance, all I am saying is I can't think of a normal fight where you actually need 25 MR on a weapon. Typically that kind of situation is where you are not tanking, and just trying to survive AoEs (raiding). In that case you aren't worrying about DPS or trying to keep agro. It seems like a very niche concern. In any normal solo/group content swapping to resistance gear is enough.

"Play what you want" is always an option, but OP is asking for suggestions hehe. If he didn't care about the different advantages/disadvantages of the races, he wouldn't ask.

You could make the argument that Iksars are the best raid focused SK, since you typically won't be using Blood Ember in raids. They have the best mitigation, and Greenmist's proc is a good agro generator. The problem is SK's are the worst raiding class in the game, so I would never recommend somebody roll an SK with min/maxing raiding in mind.

[Danth]

The extra healing can matter in specific situations. There ARE a handful of encounters the wife and I could not quite do until I completed Innoruuk's Curse on my own shadowknight. That type of shadowknight/shaman duo is probably where these types of items shine most. Outside that, it's a very nice thing to have if I'm solo'ing or duo'ing with the wife's other characters.

I said it in the other thread, but Innoruuk's Curse should not be thought of as a 500/min healing item. That's the maximum potential, but In practice it will not average that much over time since the proc falls off sometimes even with maximum or near-maximum dexterity. I expect it averages something closer to 400/min. Greenmist will sustain at or very near a 300/min average, within 10% of that probably, because the longer duration means its effect will hardly ever fall off--allowing it to sustain much nearer to its maximum potential. This is where the comparison to Greenmist gets difficult.

Compared to a non-Iksar using Innoruuk's Curse, Greenmist:

--Deals less damage over time than the epic does
--Heals for less, probably on order of 2/3 to 3/4 the healing in practice
--Is much more likely to be resisted. This may matter against encounters with highly resistant creatures.
--Between Greenmist, typical shields, and iksar racial bonus, the Iksar will have over 100 more AC than the non-iksar in equivalent gear using the epic.
--Greenmist is twice as fast as Innoruuk's Curse and will generate accordingly more ripostes. This may possibly reduce the weapon's benefit when used against high-hitting creatures.

Greenmist is a very nice item for players who enjoy playing iksars anyway. I would not pick iksar just to have access to that one item, but Innoruuk's Curse is hard enough to obtain that Greenmist may have a strong appeal to lower-end players who won't easily get the standard epic. It took me over four years to complete IC--many players don't play on P99 that long, period. Greenmist can be acquired much more easily. That's probably it's largest benefit.

Danth

[Snaggles]

DSM, we are going to agree to disagree on the MR. It’s very handy especially for non/raid situations. I definitely agree I wouldn’t use a GM on raids unless maybe trash tanking.

Nice post Danth.

Quick rundown:
Ogre - “FSI”, stamina, str, blood ember. 15% xp penalty, large so needs shrink or skelly to get around even normal size places comfortably. Can slam/bash with 2h unless skelly.

Troll - regen, stamina, str, blood ember. 20% xp penalty, large so needs shrink or skelly to get around even normal size places comfortably. Can slam/bash with 2h unless skelly.

Iksar - regen, racial AC bonus mainly good pre-tov armor, Greenmist and stone of morid. Medium race that can use Frostreaver. 20% xp penalty, only needs shrink for raiding. Very evil race. Needs a shield or epic to bash.

Human/Eru/DE - blood ember, like iksar can get a 100hp rot shield in Kithicor. No xp penalty. No shrink needed for normal use. Vision issues (HUM/ERU) or ultravision (DE). DE can do reaper quest easy. Very moderate stats, high to very high intel. Erudites nor Dark Elves can use the Frostreaver (only Human). Needs a shield or epic to bash.

[Danth]

In any normal solo/group content swapping to resistance gear is enough.

(Different subject, different post)

I agree. In duo-type areas, magic resist seldom matters--only in a couple areas. Duo'ing/smallmanning charmers like Neh'Ashir is the only time I ever put on MR-type gear. Charm is the only effect that's troublesome enough I care that much about stopping it. That's why I decided not to even bother talking about the 25 MR on Greenmist above. Lower-end players hardly ever need it, and higher-end players can get their resists someplace else if they want it. Maybe a shadowknight who wants to spend a lot of time trying to solo in sebilis (all those slowing shamans) might think about it, but that's a niche of a niche play style.

We are going to agree to disagree on the MR. It’s very handy especially for non/raid situations.

What do you want it for? Most stuff I don't care if I get slowed or stunned once in awhile, we can power through regardless.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

(Different subject, different post)

I agree. In duo-type areas, magic resist seldom matters--only in a couple areas. Duo'ing/smallmanning charmers like Neh'Ashir is the only time I ever put on MR-type gear. Charm is the only effect that's troublesome enough I care that much about stopping it. That's why I decided not to even bother talking about the 25 MR on Greenmist above. Lower-end players hardly ever need it, and higher-end players can get their resists someplace else if they want it. Maybe a shadowknight who wants to spend a lot of time trying to solo in sebilis (all those slowing shamans) might think about it, but that's a niche of a niche play style.



What do you want it for? Most stuff I don't care if I get slowed or stunned once in awhile, we can power through regardless.

Danth

Agreed.

The other thing about Axe of Resistance is you can swap to it when the mob is casting a spell. You don't have to always have it equipped. So while having a Greenmist is less work, you could still have a better DPS weapon like Frostwrath equipped, and swap to Axe of Resistance when a spell is about to land.

[Keebz]

Iksar - regen, racial AC bonus mainly good pre-tov armor, Greenmist and stone of morid. Medium race that can use Frostreaver. 20% xp penalty, only needs shrink for raiding. Very evil race. Needs a shield or epic to bash.


You forgot to mention the 2h animation. It's reaal bad. Otherwise, I'd stan Iksar.

[Snaggles]

What do you want it for? Most stuff I don't care if I get slowed or stunned once in awhile, we can power through regardless.

Danth

Well in low-crew hits most the stuff that fears is resistable with a decent amount. I tank fay, ragefire, etc. Plus any gflux in The Hole or Plane of Hate. Being well over 100 helps for that.

Grind group stuff its nice not being slowed, blind, or rooted/snared. Most the non-raid hp stuff doesnt have a lot of MR. Chokidai pauldrons, imperial wardog collars, etc.

I roll around on my ranger with about 200 unbuffed MR and crap for hps though. So I favor it higher than most players.


You forgot to mention the 2h animation. It's reaal bad. Otherwise, I'd stan Iksar.

1000%.

[ithaqua]

Greenmist needs luclin to really shine, 18/22 isn’t that hot but 24/22 and not needing to lug around ssra bane weapons is pretty good!

[Samoht]

DSM, we are going to agree to disagree on the MR. It’s very handy especially for non/raid situations. I definitely agree I wouldn’t use a GM on raids unless maybe trash tanking.

Nice post Danth.

Quick rundown:
Ogre - “FSI”, stamina, str, blood ember. 15% xp penalty, large so needs shrink or skelly to get around even normal size places comfortably. Can slam/bash with 2h unless skelly.

Troll - regen, stamina, str, blood ember. 20% xp penalty, large so needs shrink or skelly to get around even normal size places comfortably. Can slam/bash with 2h unless skelly.

Iksar - regen, racial AC bonus mainly good pre-tov armor, Greenmist and stone of morid. Medium race that can use Frostreaver. 20% xp penalty, only needs shrink for raiding. Very evil race. Needs a shield or epic to bash.

Human/Eru/DE - blood ember, like iksar can get a 100hp rot shield in Kithicor. No xp penalty. No shrink needed for normal use. Vision issues (HUM/ERU) or ultravision (DE). DE can do reaper quest easy. Very moderate stats, high to very high intel. Erudites nor Dark Elves can use the Frostreaver (only Human). Needs a shield or epic to bash.

BUT WHO AMONGST THEM CAN WEAR DRESSES

[pasi]

Some things that are completely irrelevant, but someone out there might enjoy reading:

The Ssra bane on Greenmist is pretty irrelevant. Shadowknights are generally the preferred add offtank for most Ssra fights since Paladins offer more in terms of spot healing and curse removal. This is especially the case for Emperor - the fight that needs Bane to deal damage. And if you happened to be a guild that had enough SKs where you wanted them to DPS the boss, a bane 2hander is going to significantly outperform any 1h. Fitting spells between swings becomes very important if you're looking to min/max. The Ssra bane weapons are very low effort in comparison to Seru weapons.

The main thing that I used my Greenmist for on live was the fat 25 MR from a 1hander. With ring(s) of resistance and a bard, you could get enough MR to mostly resist deadly lifetaps which opened up small group kills of Trak/VS/Nortlav at 60 (and soloable at 65).


The main drawback of Iksar is really the lack of Blood Ember. The BP is a very good click that doesn't have a replacement other than Dain Hammer. SKs also do not get a Shield of Maelin Ornate BP in PoP. The greaves are a great pulling tool.


The AC bonus and Regen bonus become pretty trivial from PoP onward where frontal stun immunity is just king.

Anyhow, Greenmist is a cool item and a cool quest. It's a good leveling 1hander and good enough if you don't have access to ToV weapons. However, I wouldn't delude myself into thinking it's worthwhile to be an iksar.

[Danth]

The main drawback of Iksar is really the lack of Blood Ember. The BP is a very good click that doesn't have a replacement other than Dain Hammer.

Blood Ember Breastplate's click effect is the same as the proc on Stave of Shielding, isn't it?

[Samoht]

Blood Ember Breastplate's click effect is the same as the proc on Stave of Shielding, isn't it?

Yup.

The main drawback of Iksar is really the lack of Blood Ember. The BP is a very good click that doesn't have a replacement other than Dain Hammer.

Doesn't stack with focus, either way.

[pasi]

Doesn't stack with focus, either way.

Obv. The main draw - so to speak - of playing a knight is their toolkit for soloing and grouping relative to a warrior. It's a pretty good click for when you are doing the above without a shaman in the group.

[Naethyn]

When Luclin hits the green mist warrior will be ready.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The important Blood Ember pieces are Pants (Free FD without cooldown), Gloves (Free Snare), and Boots (Free Fear). The other pieces will eventually get replacements. Arms are only good until 55, invis bracers aren't as good as circlet of shadows, and Dain Hammer is better than BP click. Hat will become redundant when you get a decent worn see invis item like Vindi Earring, Fingerbone Hoop, etc.

[greatdane]

You don't proc often enough to where swapping the weapons around to use both procs is relevant more than once in a blue moon. Most of the time, the epic proc will have worn off before the Greenmist proc is applied. And even when it works, the Greenmist proc is not that great. It's 5 DPS/HPS and a tiny buff to your AC and strength.

Greenmist is quite nice for non-raiders who have no chance to get anything better, but if you raid at all, there's a whole slew of superior weapons. Even then, the ratio is worse than tradeables like Shard of Night and Massive Dragonclaw Shard. While Greenmist does have stats, it has a measly 5 AC (and 4 more from the proc's buff) and no HP. Really the only interesting things about it are the 25 MR and the proc.

It's a pretty good weapon, but no more than that. Ratio is worse than a 5k item, stats are alright but no amazing, and the same can be said of the proc. It's more of a status symbol than a real power item. It won't improve your character's performance by much unless you're too poor to even buy a Shard of Night or other comparable weapon.

[jadier]

You can get Greenmist at level 5, use it until level 46, then get IC.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You can get Greenmist at level 5, use it until level 46, then get IC.

You can't proc Greenmist until 45, so that isn't very relevant. You can get a Shard of Night or a Reaver from 1-45 and they have better ratios.

Once you hit level 45 you can use Blood Ember too, which is more useful than the Greenmist proc.

[Snaggles]

Blood Ember is barely tolerable in low-stress situations. 3 second FD, yuck. At 60 you can keep DP and FD memmed...if you need 3 FD options you are already dead.

5 second engulfing darkness, ew. I rarely snare stuff with my ranger thanks to the 800 or so druids who have epics. These days sk's will prob rotate in clinging darkness anyways. Soloing with Engulfing is just gross.

Greenmist is a solid tanking weapon with a tap proc that's almost free. It looks cool. Give the lizards a win or at least a nod to a tie.

There are advantages of both, kind of. These are very small lateral shifts to what is "better". Just don't look too close at the paladin spell book or special abilities....BUT that is a thread for another day :) .

[Ennewi]

BE legs are perfect for farming when you couldn't be bothered to waste mana FDing off unwanted adds or wasting the timing killing them. It frees up 1 or more spell slots too. The real selling point is no recast delay, which means less now that SKs have 2 FDs, but if you just want to plow through weakling mobs to spawn nameds, it's so easy to use BE instead.

That's what's great about classic EQ. It's situational and ambiguous enough even when it comes to min/max. 2 decades later and players are still debating over the merits of innate regen or FSI. Most players hate night blindness, yet some think it adds to the immersiveness of the world. AFAIK cloak of falling stars is considered bis, but the stamina from cloak of confusion isn't wasted on a monk, even if already over 205, because they will often see their buffs stripped when pulling targets. So it makes sense to purchase that PoM set of cards instead of blowing tons of dkp on the other, esp if working on boosting stats in other slots. The list of examples goes on.

To most endgame raiders, the SK epic is mediocre at best, esp when compared to something like vulak axe. But to anyone interested strictly on solo/duo/group content, the proc adds so much to their survivability and couples well with heals over time, not to mention other dots. Similar things could be said about Greenmist. If you duo with a shaman and don't have epic (or want the benefit of shield AC), it is a perfectly good option. Similarly, if you don't have yeli sword and/or narandi crown, blood ember will go a long way towards conserving mana. It does mean adjusting to the cast times, but therein lies the fun of getting the most out of the class and what it has available to it. Once you're rolling in plat/dkp and can splurge, the better, more expensive items will make what you were doing before seem like lots of extra work for a slight benefit, but this is the nature of progression. If you skip to the end thanks to ectunnel friends or rmt, you miss all of the nuance between 1 and 60.

[Ataxio]

While OP did say he does not care about stats and is focused on the proc. I feel inclined to add that the overlooked value of greenmist is the fact that its +25 MR on a one hander, and is easily obtained compared to the epic. SKs do terrible DPS no matter what gear you throw at them, and if you are playing a SK for dps I'm not sure anyone can help you.

For the sake of playing the class as its intended, you want tons of MR and raw HP. Greenmist is superior to the epic in that regard.