XP penalty really that nasty?

[Caridry]

so me and a friend are starting together, and i finally figured out what i would be doing which was making a SK (for SK/shaman group duo) and leveling with him while he was on, and leveling a necro in my own time or when we are on seperately... but it looks like i will be playing the SK full time since i will be getting half the xp as him? Thats a little harsh... or does it even it and i wont really be able to notice it?

[Estu]

In a group, the EXP penalties/bonuses are split amongst the group members so that everyone levels at the same rate. So you won't have to play your SK any more than he plays his shaman.

[Harrison]

Individually, yes, it's fucking rough.

Level 45 alone was some retarded amount of time on my paladin. I can't even imagine what a Troll or Iksar SK is like on a hell level.

[VincentVolaju]

From what I understand it takes all the bonus's and penalties from everyones race/class in the group and splits it even so that everyone move the same on there xp bar.

So for example a person with no penalties needs an even 100% of an exp bar to level, then take for example a human SK who needs 140% to get through that same level (because he has a 40% penalty). Since all of your xp penalty/bonus are divided and evened out amongst the group, then in that example if the 2 of were to duo/group, the 2 of you would split his 40% penalty and you would end up taking half of it. So basically you would be looking at 120% exp per level if the 2 of you were to group all the time. If he was a troll or Ikky SK its something like 67% I think? Which would then split you guys at like 133.5% or something like that?

I think the whole idea behind is so that friends of any race/class combo can play together, and never have to worry about one out leveling the other. If a full group of 6 people, all different class/race combos with diff penalties and bonus's, all grouped together everyday and ONLY grouped with each other, they would all ding 60 @ the exact same time, apparently. At least thats how its been explained to me several times ever since the exp penalties were put in a while ago.

[Caridry]

that REALLY eased my mind, now do i really want to be a pain in his ass by going ikky SK? =P

[VincentVolaju]

Lol Id troll over Ikky myself, but thats just cause it would be such a pain in the ass to most of the time having to go all the way to kunark just to train and such since there isnt all that many vendors that sell to ikky in old world yeah?

[Caridry]

well if he rolls barbarian shaman, ill go dark elf... if he goes ikky shaman, ill go ikky with him =D

[VincentVolaju]

Id prefer DE of all of them, more int so you can solo a bit easier when hes not on. But I guess you have the necro so youll be playin that when he isnt online.

[YendorLootmonkey]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24405

[Doors]

Its brutal on hell levels. If you group a lot, its not a big deal, but it is noticeable.

[bakkily]

heh, on my shaman, lvl 45 took 36 hours, one straight week of lvling for that damn lvl

and lvl 30, is rough on the ranger, still love the class, but hating the lvling.....

[Fourthmeal]

nah

[Swish]

It's the full classic experience! If you came for a challenge, roll a troll/iksar SK - what's to do once you hit 60? Enjoy the ride to get there :)

[quellren]

SK/SHM is a pretty nice duo. You can do a fair bit as a duo, and automatically have a tank and healer, just add DPS for a full party.
If you're gonna go that way, I'd suggest both being Troll or Ogre. As trolls, you get the regen perks of Iksar, but much easier to gear up.
If you go Ogre (who have the best SK stats) you still have a 'pocket shrink' from the shaman so size isn't an issue.

One problem with pairing DE and Barb shaman, is it makes several camps off limits unless you're OK with the shaman being KoS nearly everywhere., namely FP/qeynos guards, millers/bards, dwarves and gnomes. Trolls and Ogres start KoS so you lose nothing.

Edit: I totally missed the original question.

The EXP penalty is proportionate to how much you dwell on it. It's gonna feel alot slower if you hit 'I' after every pull to look at the exp bar, 'a watched pot never boils', and all that.

If you just play, you won't even notice it. Even less so if you don't have another character to compare it to. I'm going to wager that the above posters commenting about how SK is insufferable have a main that is famous for quick levels, like a pet-class, bard or rogue, and are comparing unjustly.

[Hoggen]

SK plus shaman levels really fast after SK gets fear and shaman gets pet. Prior to that, I can't say, but I assume they do fine. In outdoor zones with unlimited mobs, it's one of the fastest leveling situations in the game, as long as people aren't afk, lazy, or incompetent. SK pulls, snares, fears, pets go on, dots go on, mob dies, repeat. Med breaks are few and far between with Canni and the SK only casting snare and fear.

I don't understand all this wrangling over race of an SK. Regen is a great ability and I'm partial to it, so I prefer IKS. I prefer IKS to troll because of the AC bonus. Though I hear AC is FUBAR on this server, I have an AC heavy gear setup and I have no trouble tanking. ANY race can have INT. Gear gets INT, so choosing a race for INT is not relevant. Ogre no frontal stun doesn't help much in any fear kite situation, and I have no clue how useful it is overall as agro is easy to gain with an SK, and DPS is awful regardless of gear compared to well equipped dual wielders.

Don't worry about the penalty unless you are gung-ho to get into a top raiding guild immediately. My IKS SK has 11 days (one of which was wasted unsuccessfully trying to spawn an AC and another day which was wasted running around needlessly) played and is 42. Stick to duoing with your shammy friend and you can't go wrong.

[Troy]

The EXP penalty is proportionate to how much you dwell on it. It's gonna feel alot slower if you hit 'I' after every pull to look at the exp bar, 'a watched pot never boils', and all that.

If you just play, you won't even notice it. Even less so if you don't have another character to compare it to. I'm going to wager that the above posters commenting about how SK is insufferable have a main that is famous for quick levels, like a pet-class, bard or rogue, and are comparing unjustly.

Try playing a hybrid in the 50's - you WILL notice it.

[quellren]

Try playing a hybrid in the 50's - you WILL notice it.

I have. I still think it's relative to what else you play, and how obsessed you are with watching that bar creep along.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I'm editing my xp bar out of my UI. The only purpose it serves is to depress me.

[Troy]

I have. I still think it's relative to what else you play, and how obsessed you are with watching that bar creep along.

When you're struggling to hit 54 and your non-hybrid friends are all hitting 57,58,59 and tired of dragging you around as the lowbie in their groups it starts to matter quite a bit. You literally get left behind unless you have the same group constantly and no one plays without you.

[quellren]

When you're struggling to hit 54 and your non-hybrid friends are all hitting 57,58,59 and tired of dragging you around as the lowbie in their groups it starts to matter quite a bit. You literally get left behind unless you have the same group constantly and no one plays without you.

Sigh.

so me and a friend are starting together, and i finally figured out what i would be doing which was making a SK (for SK/shaman group duo) and leveling with him while he was on, and leveling a necro in my own time or when we are on seperately...

[Troy]

zomg I generalized an extremely specific question to add more detail so that the thread might be relevant to more than 1 person, the horror!

Yes, Caridry won't get left behind as long as his friend never ever plays without him. You are correct. You win the internet.

[Csihar]

You win the internet.

But does he win your affections?

[maestrom]

In a group, the EXP penalties/bonuses are split amongst the group members so that everyone levels at the same rate. So you won't have to play your SK any more than he plays his shaman.

This is not true.

If you both start at 0 experience and every time you get experience, you are grouped your friend will start to pull away pretty early. The EXP penalty does not affect how much EXP you RECEIVE from killing a monster, it only affects how much EXP you need to be the next level.

Also, EXP is distributed according to EXP totals. So if you have 1000 exp, and your friend has 500 exp, you will get more EXP per kill than your friend will.

Lets take a look at it. You start an SK and your friend starts a shaman. I haven't done the math so i don't know the true EXP values or their relative distances from one another so I will use nice round numbers here to illustrate the mechanics and this model should not be used to calculate the real values of exp given/required.

Lets assume an SK (with exp penalty) needs:
0 exp to be level 1,
120 to be level 2,
240 to be level 3,
360 to be level 4,
480 to be level 5,
600 to be level 6.

A shaman (in this model, no exp penalty) needs:
0 exp to be level 1,
100 to be level 2,
200 to be level 3,
300 to be level 4,
400 to be level 5,
500 to be level 6.

If you are both starting together at 0 exp and ONLY exp together, exp totals will always be the same so exp will be divided evenly between the two of you. So lets say you've gone out and killed a few monsters and now you both have 110 experience. The shaman will be level 2, but the SK will still be level 1, even though the EXP totals are the same. You kill a few more monsters and now you each have 340 experience. The shaman is level 4, but the SK is still level 3. And finally, after a few more monsters, both of you have 500 exp. The shaman is now level 6, but the SK is still level 4.

When people talk about the hybrid exp penalty being shared with the group, they are typically grouping with a hybrid at or near their level. As we have seen in the model above, a level 6 SK has much more total experience than a level 6 shaman, and since exp is distributed in proportion to your exp total, the hybrid will draw off more exp from a mob than a similarly leveled shaman. The good example is gravity. EXP totals determine how strong your gravity is, when a mob dies, the person with the strongest gravity gets the most EXP, 2nd gets the 2nd most and so on down the list.

Hope this helps.

[Messianic]

that REALLY eased my mind, now do i really want to be a pain in his ass by going ikky SK? =P

It's really worth it at level 60 if you're going to play a good deal. The regen rates - feigned, sitting, or standing, are distinctly higher for Trolls and Iksar than they are for other races.

Regen Rate (Human): 7 sitting, 5 FD, 4 standing
Regen Rate (Iksar): 18 sitting, 14 FD, 12 standing

http://www.monkly-business.net/index.php?pageid=abilities

Iksar and Troll have the same Regen.

[Slave]

Lets assume an SK (with exp penalty) needs:
0 exp to be level 1,
120 to be level 2,
240 to be level 3,
360 to be level 4,
480 to be level 5,
600 to be level 6.

A shaman (in this model, no exp penalty) needs:
0 exp to be level 1,
100 to be level 2,
200 to be level 3,
300 to be level 4,
400 to be level 5,
500 to be level 6.



Actually it would be much worse than that, hybrids having a 40% exp penalty and not 20%.

[Feachie]

crosspost because i think it's relevant. such graphs!

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=325872&postcount=25

[Estu]

This is not true.

If you both start at 0 experience and every time you get experience, you are grouped your friend will start to pull away pretty early. The EXP penalty does not affect how much EXP you RECEIVE from killing a monster, it only affects how much EXP you need to be the next level.

Also, EXP is distributed according to EXP totals. So if you have 1000 exp, and your friend has 500 exp, you will get more EXP per kill than your friend will.

Lets take a look at it. You start an SK and your friend starts a shaman. I haven't done the math so i don't know the true EXP values or their relative distances from one another so I will use nice round numbers here to illustrate the mechanics and this model should not be used to calculate the real values of exp given/required.

Lets assume an SK (with exp penalty) needs:
0 exp to be level 1,
120 to be level 2,
240 to be level 3,
360 to be level 4,
480 to be level 5,
600 to be level 6.

A shaman (in this model, no exp penalty) needs:
0 exp to be level 1,
100 to be level 2,
200 to be level 3,
300 to be level 4,
400 to be level 5,
500 to be level 6.

If you are both starting together at 0 exp and ONLY exp together, exp totals will always be the same so exp will be divided evenly between the two of you. So lets say you've gone out and killed a few monsters and now you both have 110 experience. The shaman will be level 2, but the SK will still be level 1, even though the EXP totals are the same. You kill a few more monsters and now you each have 340 experience. The shaman is level 4, but the SK is still level 3. And finally, after a few more monsters, both of you have 500 exp. The shaman is now level 6, but the SK is still level 4.

When people talk about the hybrid exp penalty being shared with the group, they are typically grouping with a hybrid at or near their level. As we have seen in the model above, a level 6 SK has much more total experience than a level 6 shaman, and since exp is distributed in proportion to your exp total, the hybrid will draw off more exp from a mob than a similarly leveled shaman. The good example is gravity. EXP totals determine how strong your gravity is, when a mob dies, the person with the strongest gravity gets the most EXP, 2nd gets the 2nd most and so on down the list.

Hope this helps.

Valid point. Solution: you and your friend both hit level 2 separately, then group from then on and level at the same rate.

[Caridry]

we will probably be leveling up to 10-15 on our own, then merging... i dont know, i just dont want him to leave me in the dust when we are leveling together.... and i still want a good opportunity to play my necro.

[Slave]

Valid point. Solution: you and your friend both hit level 2 separately, then group from then on and level at the same rate.

Lol I think someone failed math.

we will probably be leveling up to 10-15 on our own, then merging... i dont know, i just dont want him to leave me in the dust when we are leveling together.... and i still want a good opportunity to play my necro.

Solution: you play approximately 40% more than him. Plus necro.

[NenshouStar]

This is not true.

If you both start at 0 experience and every time you get experience, you are grouped your friend will start to pull away pretty early. The EXP penalty does not affect how much EXP you RECEIVE from killing a monster, it only affects how much EXP you need to be the next level.

Also, EXP is distributed according to EXP totals. So if you have 1000 exp, and your friend has 500 exp, you will get more EXP per kill than your friend will.

Lets take a look at it. You start an SK and your friend starts a shaman. I haven't done the math so i don't know the true EXP values or their relative distances from one another so I will use nice round numbers here to illustrate the mechanics and this model should not be used to calculate the real values of exp given/required.

Lets assume an SK (with exp penalty) needs:
0 exp to be level 1,
120 to be level 2,
240 to be level 3,
360 to be level 4,
480 to be level 5,
600 to be level 6.

A shaman (in this model, no exp penalty) needs:
0 exp to be level 1,
100 to be level 2,
200 to be level 3,
300 to be level 4,
400 to be level 5,
500 to be level 6.

If you are both starting together at 0 exp and ONLY exp together, exp totals will always be the same so exp will be divided evenly between the two of you. So lets say you've gone out and killed a few monsters and now you both have 110 experience. The shaman will be level 2, but the SK will still be level 1, even though the EXP totals are the same. You kill a few more monsters and now you each have 340 experience. The shaman is level 4, but the SK is still level 3. And finally, after a few more monsters, both of you have 500 exp. The shaman is now level 6, but the SK is still level 4.

When people talk about the hybrid exp penalty being shared with the group, they are typically grouping with a hybrid at or near their level. As we have seen in the model above, a level 6 SK has much more total experience than a level 6 shaman, and since exp is distributed in proportion to your exp total, the hybrid will draw off more exp from a mob than a similarly leveled shaman. The good example is gravity. EXP totals determine how strong your gravity is, when a mob dies, the person with the strongest gravity gets the most EXP, 2nd gets the 2nd most and so on down the list.

Hope this helps.

http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Game_Mechanics#How_Experience_Works

[NenshouStar]

http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Game_Mechanics#How_Experience_Works
sorry for the double post hahaha, but problem solved.

:cool:

[maestrom]

Actually it would be much worse than that, hybrids having a 40% exp penalty and not 20%.

This is true. I just pulled the numbers out of my ass to illustrate the difference.

Nen, some people can't be bothered to click links so I just typed a quick down and dirty guide. Sorry if I offended you.

[Etris]

Caridry!

My buddy and I are starting up as well as soon as I get my hands on a Titanium copy.

It'd be fun to party with some newbies on the journey to 60. Find me in game! Name will hopefully be Etris / Etros.

I believe we're both going pure dps. Monk / Rogue or Monk / Wizard. Not sure yet. But I think teleport would help our group out.

[Troy]

Some clown is going to make chars named Etris and Etros now just to annoy you.