Warrior Aggro - Post Patch

[Eyry]

Hey All,

I'm a level 60 Ogre warrior, max raid buffed stats 255/255/255/255. Currently weilding Wavecrasher & Infestation. Has anyone noticed a significant difference in aggro for these two weapons since the last patch? I have heard mixed feelings between Wavecrasher/Infestation. People using frostbringer or something else.

I am seeing issues with holding aggro a little bit post patch than I did previously. Any thoughts on non-epic/non-Tov/non-VP weapons that may be holding better aggro post patch?

[Ripqozko]

Hey All,

I'm a level 60 Ogre warrior, max raid buffed stats 255/255/255/255. Currently weilding Wavecrasher & Infestation. Has anyone noticed a significant difference in aggro for these two weapons since the last patch? I have heard mixed feelings between Wavecrasher/Infestation. People using frostbringer or something else.

I am seeing issues with holding aggro a little bit post patch than I did previously. Any thoughts on non-epic/non-Tov/non-VP weapons that may be holding better aggro post patch?

Infestation sucks use wavecrasher and frostbringer

[Philistine]

Hey All,

I'm a level 60 Ogre warrior, max raid buffed stats 255/255/255/255. Currently weilding Wavecrasher & Infestation. Has anyone noticed a significant difference in aggro for these two weapons since the last patch? I have heard mixed feelings between Wavecrasher/Infestation. People using frostbringer or something else.

I am seeing issues with holding aggro a little bit post patch than I did previously. Any thoughts on non-epic/non-Tov/non-VP weapons that may be holding better aggro post patch?

I'm afraid I can't speak to changes after the patch, but Frostbringer has a better ratio and (at least what used to be) a better proc. Pre-patch I would have said Infestation is a better primary sue to better ratio and slightly stronger proc, but I haven't tried it after the patch.

Personally, I haven't noticed any material difference in agro after the patch. The way I read the patch notes agro on procs should have stayed about the same, but smarter people than I have interpreted the notes differently.

[Ripqozko]

I'm afraid I can't speak to changes after the patch, but Frostbringer has a better ratio and (at least what used to be) a better proc. Pre-patch I would have said Infestation is a better primary sue to better ratio and slightly stronger proc, but I haven't tried it after the patch.

Personally, I haven't noticed any material difference in agro after the patch. The way I read the patch notes agro on procs should have stayed about the same, but smarter people than I have interpreted the notes differently.

Pure disease and pure poison is nerfed, ie tash and infestation and disease cloud on sk, do no threat. Debuffs and stuns are fine.

[Crede]

2h dain axe

[agalig2]

Get yourself a better mainhand and put Frosty in the offhand.

P.S. test ringed mace of the ykesha and report back

[Arvan]

Hey All,

I'm a level 60 Ogre warrior, max raid buffed stats 255/255/255/255. Currently weilding Wavecrasher & Infestation. Has anyone noticed a significant difference in aggro for these two weapons since the last patch? I have heard mixed feelings between Wavecrasher/Infestation. People using frostbringer or something else.

I am seeing issues with holding aggro a little bit post patch than I did previously. Any thoughts on non-epic/non-Tov/non-VP weapons that may be holding better aggro post patch?

Maxed? Whats your charisma?

[Solist]

You're using bad weapons and complaining aggro is bad. Those weaps were never 'good', just used by a lot of people, and most people suck at everquest. Monkey see monkey do, top end guilds are full of terrible players who don't test or parse this stuff. What hope do casuals have.

If you're VP keyed speak to riot and vanquish, and arrange to buy a maelstrom/howling cutlass/veridix/veldrak. Any combination of those 4 in either hand will be fine.

If not VP keyed Wavecrasher+Frostbringer is about as decent as it gets. Take it or leave it with the offhand, could happily use a swiftblade of zek offhand and still be happy. But I'd be wanting those VP weaps if they're attainable. Probably worth keeping a WESS and a infestation or feverblade or sword of the shissar or malevolent runeblade etc handy in bank for when/if they add some hate back to dis/pois counters.

[Ennewi]

https://web.archive.org/web/20041108111308/http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2098

Old 07-22-2003 #4
Griglon
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I have the Infestation. I too have trouble keeping aggro off of me even with other epic'd warriors. It procs an insane amount even without a dex buff for me. I keep it in my bag as a good quick aggro weapon and for sentimental value.

Bank infestation for now, but there's a lot of evidence to support reverting recent changes made to aggro.

[bobjonesp99]

blade of the black dragon eye, sword of the shissar, infestation, feverblade and anything else that relied primarily on disease and/or poison counters for agro have all been severely nerfed.

the best "poor man" droppable agro setup is frostbringer main hand and sarnak warhammer offhand. if you got the plat then wavecrasher main hand and frostbringer offhand.

the best warrior agro setup on p99 is dual wielding sods. the next best setup (assuming no sod) is trident mainhand and redblade offhand.

once you start comparing agro weapons, as long as they have a max SpA agro (i.e. 400 from stun, slow, ac debuff, etc) and decent white damage agro ratio, then other factors become more important (like hp, resist, ac, stats).

[Botten]

Stat reducers draw a lot of agro anyone try to compare the wavecrasher to Crescent Blades of Luclin?

.

[pasi]

This may be something incorrectly implemented on P99 versus a weapon existing as is for a very brief period, but early in Luclin, Sarnak Lightning Caller from Chardok had Fury of Air as a proc before it got nerfed to Fireburst.

https://web.archive.org/web/20020111120001/http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6672

Currently on p1999, the proc is Careless Lightning. I'm not sure if this p1999 version transiently existed as Careless Lightning for a month or two before changing, but at least early on in Luclin, the proc was a stun DD.

The old Alla lists it as Fury of Air, but the screenshot shows Lightning Call.

[Samoht]

the next best setup (assuming no sod) is trident mainhand and redblade offhand.

laughs in nope

[Solist]

laughs in nope

It isn't worth it, let them think what they think. There's about 4 people in all of p99 who parse weapon aggro and test this stuff.

Maybe five if you include retired folk. So forum warriors just gonna forum warrior without a clue. The last big thread on warrior aggro showed that every 'big guild' tank that posted was also fairly clueless.

[bobjonesp99]

laughs in nope

i assume you think these should be reversed? or maybe you have something meaningful to add to the conversation?

previously you commented and provided a table of your "top 20" mainhand agro weapons. in order it was scepter of destruction, feverblade, blade of strategy, sword of shissar, veldraks shortblade, blade of the black dragon eye, howling cutlass, and then trident of the deep seas.

with the changes to disease and poison counters feverblade, sword of the shissar, and blade of the black dragon eye are all lower than trident of the deep seas. so of the remaining weapons on your list (in order) it would be blade of strategy, veldraks shortblade, and howling cutlass above the trident for mainhand. veldraks shortblade and howling cutlass both have 0 hp and ac and no warrior stats... so while they may provide 0-2% better threat generation, that is less valuable than the lack of 50 hp and resists.

[greatdane]

They just enjoy jerking themselves off to the idea that they know so much more than everyone else.

"Only FOUR people out of the thousands who have played P99 know the REAL TRUTH behind these things that anyone can literally look up and math out for themselves. I'm simply superior to nearly evreryone! *fap fap fap*"

[Samoht]

previously you commented and provided a table of your "top 20" mainhand agro weapons. in order it was scepter of destruction, feverblade, blade of strategy, sword of shissar, veldraks shortblade, blade of the black dragon eye, howling cutlass, and then trident of the deep seas.

So that's the primary slot, right

There is a different set of weapons available for secondary

[Ghost of Starman]

Nev Horn since you still get the + dmg threat bonus in offhand.

[Solist]

Thats an extremely limited way to look at it. Very situational weapon.

[Allishia]

Sod or red blade primary, nev horn offhand. Bis agro /nod

[Eyry]

I got my Epic!

[Philistine]

Nice! Congrats!! That's awesome.

Of the those 3 I'd go with Frostbringer. Ratio is better than the others and the proc should be stronger as well due to the combo of AC debuff + DD.

You could also consider the 2hander instead. You get great stats and a rocking proc (plus it looks *awesome* imho :p). It's very good agro, but is more susceptible to proc dry spells than two 1handers. You may also find yourself having to explain why you're using it, as people tend to doubt it.

[Eyry]

I remember Allishia talking about using the 2hr at one point and it being pretty good as well. Thanks!

[greatdane]

Until your gear is good enough to have max dex regardless, the insane 55 dex on the blue blade goes a long way towards making up for its lack of proc. The respectable ratio and nice stats make it perfectly fine for off-handing in content that doesn't require absolutely maxing out threat gain. Since your off-hand has half the proc rate and also has to pass a dual wield skill check in order to proc in the first place, having a proc on your off-hand is nowhere near as important. If you do have good enough gear to where the blue blade doesn't represent +55 dex, however, it becomes a bit obsolete.

[Allishia]

I remember Allishia talking about using the 2hr at one point and it being pretty good as well. Thanks!

Ya 2hand epic is great, survive better too with it cause less repo damage /nod

[wagorf]

They just enjoy jerking themselves off to the idea that they know so much more than everyone else.

"Only FOUR people out of the thousands who have played P99 know the REAL TRUTH behind these things that anyone can literally look up and math out for themselves. I'm simply superior to nearly evreryone! *fap fap fap*"

LOL epic response

[Videri]

What other advice would people give to warriors at any of the following stages?
• No epic and it's not likely to happen soon
• Possible access to warrior epic soon (go for it or naw?)
• Epic already
• Access to Veeshan's Peak boss drops
• Access Temple of Veeshan boss drops

And has someone made a spreadsheet already (based on good data, of course) or naw?

[Philistine]

My two cents to warriors who don't have their epic but may be able to get it would definitely be to go for it.

It has awesome stats and is excellent agro. It also makes the warrior immediately recognizable as one who is committed to their role enough to get the epic.

Edit: whoops! I meant this to be a reply to the above post but apparently I can't Internet.

[Toxigen]

For no epic prob Willsapper and Frostbringer

[Crede]

If ya aren’t raiding tov/going after epic, why even play a war? If you’re not trying to get at least vp or better, then just grab a wavecrasher and frostbringer and call it a day since infestation sucks now.

[wagorf]

If ya aren’t raiding tov/going after epic, why even play a war? If you’re not trying to get at least vp or better, then just grab a wavecrasher and frostbringer and call it a day since infestation sucks now.

because its a fuckin game and people can pick whatever they enjoy playing?

so if you not going PGL why play video game at all?? if you not going pro why play any sports?

[Ghost of Starman]

You're just planning on doing group content, just tell one of the people in the group to root everything and stand closer than anyone else, you'll hold aggro. That's it, the only time agro should actually be an issue is during raids.

[Jimjam]

When fighting mobs that summon - 51+ the root tactic doesn’t work so well. It will face whoever is closest but still hit whoever has more aggro.

[Snaggles]

When fighting mobs that summon - 51+ the root tactic doesn’t work so well. It will face whoever is closest but still hit whoever has more aggro.

Really? I was chain rooting ancient wyverns (60) with my ranger to save the enchanter and keep them on the warrior. Might be due to the smaller hit box though.

[Jimjam]

Really? I was chain rooting ancient wyverns (60) with my ranger to save the enchanter and keep them on the warrior. Might be due to the smaller hit box though.

Sorry - should read “ It will face whoever is closest but still hit whoever has more aggro in melee range.

I don’t know whether it applies everywhere- perhaps only certain zones follow this logic (KC) or maybe it’s been fixed.

[Videri]

Hey, I have my epic, but Samoht or whoever keeps saying red blade is better mainhand. Does that mean I shouldn’t get a Willsapper (primary only) and offhand the red blade?

[PatChapp]

Sorry - should read “ It will face whoever is closest but still hit whoever has more aggro in melee range.

I don’t know whether it applies everywhere- perhaps only certain zones follow this logic (KC) or maybe it’s been fixed.

I don't think it works like that anymore, I have been root tanking on my warrior in the hole quite a bit recently and the summoning golems still go straight for me,in between summoning whoever

[Jimjam]

I don't think it works like that anymore, I have been root tanking on my warrior in the hole quite a bit recently and the summoning golems still go straight for me,in between summoning whoever

That is a relief if it has been fixed <3

[Troxx]

2h dain axe

This.

[Eyry]

If one were to go for a decent complmentary weapon to redblade, which would you lean more toward?

Tunare Whip
Nev Horn
Koi Trident
Willsapper
Something else

[Ripqozko]

If one were to go for a decent complmentary weapon to redblade, which would you lean more toward?

Tunare Whip
Nev Horn
Koi Trident
Willsapper
Something else

Willsapper, trident, Nev horn in that order for me. Tbh I’d put kflame above Nev horn for better stats and still good white dmg threat .

[Toxigen]

if only vyemm whip didnt get nerfed

[Troxx]

Pretty sure red blade primary and Nev offhand is best of the best aggro after patch.

[Naethyn]

I like trident because 50 hp.

[Ripqozko]

I like trident because 50 hp.

yup, same reason i think kflame is better than nev horn if ya just going white dmg threat route, and why i like willsapper (has hp).

[Philistine]

I have Red Blade, Trident, and Nev Horn. Red Blade + either feels about the same to me, so I tend to use Red + Trident for the stats. I don't think you can really go wrong with any of those choices though. If you're not worried about maxing out your hp I'd probably just pick up whichever you can get first. If you are, I feel like Trident (or I guess tuna whip - a guildy who uses Red + tuna doesn't seem to have any agro trouble) is worth the wait.

[Eyry]

Thanks guys!

[PatChapp]

For max agro you would want either a willsapper or trident. Trident is a bit better since you can mainhand the res blade. One of the vp swords would work fine too.

[Troxx]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Nevederia%27s_Horn

Strong aggro proc. Delay is 15. Offhand does not apply actual damage bonus damage but there is a bug on p99 where offhand DOES contribute damage bonus threat. It is a bug, but it exists and that weapon applies that damage bonus threat at a delay of 15.

It is the best offhand aggro weapon currently in game. Red epic with its proc edges out over all other mainhand threat weapons available in this era.

Best of the best for raw aggro is red + nev

Having said that, as long as you’re making more than enough threat to reliably get the job done, there is value in other weapons (utility from slow proc, more hp, etc).

[Naethyn]

Nev horn proc is not good aggro because it doesn't include an -AC component.

[Ripqozko]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Nevederia%27s_Horn

Strong aggro proc. Delay is 15. Offhand does not apply actual damage bonus damage but there is a bug on p99 where offhand DOES contribute damage bonus threat. It is a bug, but it exists and that weapon applies that damage bonus threat at a delay of 15.

It is the best offhand aggro weapon currently in game. Red epic with its proc edges out over all other mainhand threat weapons available in this era.

Best of the best for raw aggro is red + nev

Having said that, as long as you’re making more than enough threat to reliably get the job done, there is value in other weapons (utility from slow proc, more hp, etc).

The proc is like 0 aggro so wrong there, it gets love for the white dmg threat

[Naethyn]

Personally, I feel nev horn is a trap for new warriors who aren't geared enough to take additional reposts from 15 delay offhand that are looking for a short cut.

[Troxx]

Edit: nevermind … you are right. I found the hate values in another thread.

Allyisha indicated it being a superior offhand due to DB aggro calls here:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3508329&postcount=47

This page of thread and following:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408174&page=5

[Naethyn]

The reason the cripple line is high aggro is because of the -AC component. Unfortunately suffocate doesn't include it, probably because its an enchanter spell. -AC is on the same level as slow aggro. The proc is very minor aggro.

[Naethyn]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Cracked_Claw_of_Zlandicar is an example of a true aggro proc, because it includes the -AC component for that spell line.

[Troxx]

Personally, I feel nev horn is a trap for new warriors who aren't geared enough to take additional reposts from 15 delay offhand that are looking for a short cut.

This is actually pretty good advice. If/when I ever resumed raiding (warrior main) my goal was to save first and foremost for red epic and nev horn. Cause if you are supposed to tank and can't generate enough threat to hold aggro what's the point right?

But that extra riposte dmg on heavy hitting raid bosses is not negligible.

I guess I've been spoiled tanking with my Frostreaver. It's not the best but solid white dmg threat + a good proc and minimal ripostes while doing pretty excellent dps.

[wagorf]

so if red blade is main, is trident or kflame better offhand for aggro?

[Toxigen]

i dont see using anything but trident if you have it

shit is so good and can land on unslowable mobs

[Philistine]

so if red blade is main, is trident or kflame better offhand for aggro?

I have a guildy who uses red + flame and seems to do fine, but I think the challenge is that it's ratio of only modestly better than Trident, but it's proc is much worse (100 hate vs 400 or whatever Trident proc is now)

[Philistine]

An additional thought!

Ultimately it's up to the raid to not get agro. Sure, the tank should be trying to put out decent agro but often the raid can make about anything work.

I have a guildy who used infestation + frostbringer right after infestation got nerfed. First time he tanked something, a bunch of dps caught agro and died. The next time he tanked something that same night, they didn't- they recognized he didn't build agro like they expected and adapted.

[wagorf]

I have a guildy who uses red + flame and seems to do fine, but I think the challenge is that it's ratio of only modestly better than Trident, but it's proc is much worse (100 hate vs 400 or whatever Trident proc is now)

i thought kflame 13/17 = 0.705 has much better ratio than trident 14/22 = 0.636, but i could be wrong

[Eyry]

I greatly appreciate the conversation here. The consensus appears to lean towards Trident & Willsapper. As mentioned previously, I am using a Frostbringer in the offhand like many others but am hoping to upgrade at some point. Trident would be great for the 50hp (and obvious proc component). Just gunna have to get lucky and have the right DKP if/when one drops.

[Philistine]

i thought kflame 13/17 = 0.705 has much better ratio than trident 14/22 = 0.636, but i could be wrong

Fair! My definition of "modestly" may not be what it should be. To me, the question is whether the ratio is so much better that it can make up for the 300 hate/minute difference in procs. I'm sure someone smarter than myself could just math out the answer, but I don't know how /shame!

P.S. sorry if this is a double post! I hit "Submit reply" and my original post seems to have disappeared into the Internet!

[Toxigen]

flashbacks to old wow raid leader yelling at the dps to sit on their hands for a minute after the pull

[Naethyn]

The problem with white damage aggro is while it is more reliable in easily controlled scenarios (grouping) it is not a great way to stay alive as a warrior. If you get 4-5 procs in and you see a gap in a CH chain you should turn off auto attack. Missing just one 500+ damage repost is better than any gear you can find. Low delay weapons require you to keep attacking to hold aggro and they only increase the damage you take via repost.

[Penish]

The problem with white damage aggro is while it is more reliable in easily controlled scenarios (grouping) it is not a great way to stay alive as a warrior. If you get 4-5 procs in and you see a gap in a CH chain you should turn off auto attack. Missing just one 500+ damage repost is better than any gear you can find. Low delay weapons require you to keep attacking to hold aggro and they only increase the damage you take via repost.

yeah tough to coordinate a CH chain @ 1 second with the 47 clerics that show up for each raid, /facepalm

2024 is amazing

[Naethyn]

Too many people assume everything will stay the same on blue when history shows that the server goes through changes and when those changes happen strategies emerge and metas evolve.