So Bard epic finally came down to earth prices, eh?

[Loadsamoney]

Edit: NEVERMIND. Never look at the date on the wiki, those prices are 2019. *sigh* My hopes and dreams...

[Ripqozko]

Edit: NEVERMIND. Never look at the date on the wiki, those prices are 2019. *sigh* My hopes and dreams...

Just join a raiding guild

[Loadsamoney]

Just join a raiding guild

I get burned out too easily. Play for a month, two at the most, then disappear for 6 because of boredom.

[Toxigen]

but think about all the pixels you're missing out on by going outside

[Loadsamoney]

but think about all the pixels you're missing out on by going outside

Alas, I have a job and bills to pay. I must brave the terrible sunlight to keep my internet plugged in.

Much as I may love this game, if something takes months or even years to acquire in any game, no matter how much I adore it, I don't have the free time or patience to commit to it. That's just how it is with me.

If I have the money/resources or the ability to do parts of the Epic myself, I still need to be able to complete it within a month at most, or I'll just get burned out and lose interest at some point. I'm sure my ADHD is partly to blame for that, but alas, I am what I am. And there's a huge backload of Bards and Warriors brawling with one another to complete theirs. Too many alts, not enough scales.

[Ripqozko]

Alas, I have a job and bills to pay. I must brave the terrible sunlight to keep my internet plugged in.

Much as I may love this game, if something takes months or even years to acquire in any game, no matter how much I adore it, I don't have the free time or patience to commit to it. That's just how it is with me.

If I have the money/resources or the ability to do parts of the Epic myself, I still need to be able to complete it within a month at most, or I'll just get burned out and lose interest at some point. I'm sure my ADHD is partly to blame for that, but alas, I am what I am. And there's a huge backload of Bards and Warriors brawling with one another to complete theirs. Too many alts, not enough scales.

its just way game is, bard and warrior are tough, mage is worse, if ya want an easy casual one roll a rogue.

[Loadsamoney]

its just way game is, bard and warrior are tough, mage is worse, if ya want an easy casual one roll a rogue.

Next toon I'm either contemplating Iksar Monk or Troll SK.

[jolanar]

What does having the bard epic allow you to do that you can't already do?

[Loadsamoney]

What does having the bard epic allow you to do that you can't already do?

Look like Link from The Legend of Zelda.

[Loadsamoney]

its just way game is, bard and warrior are tough, mage is worse, if ya want an easy casual one roll a rogue.

Admittedly I'm more interested in seeing the Ranger epic come down in price a bit, at least the Shattered Emerald part, to maybe 100k or so.

[Ripqozko]

What does having the bard epic allow you to do that you can't already do?

Modify singing songs that normally don't get modified, mod the rest by 1.8, procs haste as well. It's prob most class changing epic in game.

With pure tone can max everything with disc.

[Loadsamoney]

Modify singing songs that normally don't get modified, mod the rest by 1.8, procs haste as well. It's prob most class changing epic in game.

With pure tone can max everything with disc.

Because it counts as all instruments it means you can twist any combination of songs you want and get the bonus for all of them.

I'm lazy, so for me it would be permanently glued to my left hand and I wouldn't ever need to swap instruments again after getting it.

[Snaggles]

White scales, green scales, earth staffs…insane plat.
SEOC, BFG’s, Enchanter VD LR’s all around mid 100’s (not sure on ench, tbh)
SK leach mq and childs tear+fight maybe same price? Just under 100k.

The rest are very reasonable. Mage too if you loot a water staff and are ok with what that can do.

My bard is close to 60 in guardian armor with a walrus drum. It’s not ideal but still fun.

[Loadsamoney]

White scales, green scales, earth staffs…insane plat.
SEOC, BFG’s, Enchanter VD LR’s all around mid 100’s (not sure on ench, tbh)
SK leach mq and childs tear+fight maybe same price? Just under 100k.

The rest are very reasonable. Mage too if you loot a water staff and are ok with what that can do.

My bard is close to 60 in guardian armor with a walrus drum. It’s not ideal but still fun.

SK Epic is cheaper now? Could've sworn it used to be around 200k. It's much more bottlenecked than the Pally Epic.

150k for SEoC sounds about right.

[Snaggles]

Oh nah. I’m sure full meal deal it’s the same. I was just thinking the leach Mq since the other two bottlenecks are farmable for most guilds who dabble in sky and hate.

[Trexller]

Mage too if you loot a water staff and are ok with what that can do.

how does this compare, at all ?

especially after the absolutely unclassic chain pet agro nerf, and the ridiculous pet damage nerf?

mages got a totally unexplained and unwarranted middle finger from p99 devs

[Snaggles]

how does this compare, at all ?

especially after the absolutely unclassic chain pet agro nerf, and the ridiculous pet damage nerf?

mages got a totally unexplained and unwarranted middle finger from p99 devs

Feel free to look up my other posts or start another thread. I don’t want to derail this one as I often do
.
In short: It’s really good if you regularly parse compared to other pets and most players.

[jolanar]

Modify singing songs that normally don't get modified, mod the rest by 1.8, procs haste as well. It's prob most class changing epic in game.

With pure tone can max everything with disc.

Sorry not trying to be dense, never played a bard past 30... but does that allow you solo things you otherwise couldn't? Just trying to understand how it effects gameplay.

[Jimjam]

Sorry not trying to be dense, never played a bard past 30... but does that allow you solo things you otherwise couldn't? Just trying to understand how it effects gameplay.

It lets you escape the purgatory of spamming mana and join one of the cool melee groups in raids. That is all I know.

[Ripqozko]

Sorry not trying to be dense, never played a bard past 30... but does that allow you solo things you otherwise couldn't? Just trying to understand how it effects gameplay.

Don’t have to constantly swap instruments to modify them, some songs like psalms only can be modified with them, can you live without? Sure you can live in banded the whole game too. It does allow bard to play easier , proc a good haste and mod every song including singing.

[Andyman1022]

Tank DS is a big deal too. Can get a tank hitting AoW or Vyemm back for like 120+ dmg with all the bard songs modified with epic iirc.

[Snaggles]

And the 30 attack from the proc. Raw attack is huge. That and McVaxius is like an extra CoTP.

[Ennewi]

The bard epic is very much representative of the jack-of-all-trades class, providing common storebought modifiers for all musical skills while incorporating one that cannot otherwise be modified—singing. But in order to get the most out of its potential, the weapon needs to be swung regularly otherwise the short-duration groupwide proc will fade before being reapplied. As noted by others, certain damage shields, resists, and stats are enhanced by the singing mod, often to such a degree that the bard's playlist changes accordingly.

It's worth mentioning that a select few songs do require that X instrument be equipped, ranging from raid mainstays like occlusion (drum) to situationally group-saving songs like the lower level dispel (lute); this restriction is bypassed with the epic, since it functions as an all-in-one instrument. But again, because it also doubles as a weapon, the bard's support role opens up to include melee combat, boosting others' ability to do physical damage while also offsetting/blocking most, if not all, incoming damage through song.

[Loadsamoney]

So what are white scales selling for these days anyway? 2mil?

Gotta assume SOMEBODY sells them occasionally.

[Ripqozko]

So what are white scales selling for these days anyway? 2mil?

Gotta assume SOMEBODY sells them occasionally.

Consider kittens

[Loadsamoney]

Consider kittens

TMO or Bregan D'Aerth preferred.

But I've heard good things about Kittens. If they think I'd be a good fit, I'll give them a try. Not going to be raiding for a while though.

[Ripqozko]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241907

[greatdane]

Sorry not trying to be dense, never played a bard past 30... but does that allow you solo things you otherwise couldn't? Just trying to understand how it effects gameplay.

The main thing is that it counts as a 'singing instrument,' meaning it boosts songs of the singing category which otherwise can't be boosted in any way. It makes these songs 80% stronger. It's a straight-up power gain that you can't get in any other way.

Secondly, it counts as an instrument of all types so you don't have to swap instruments around while you're twisting your songs. Makes life infinitely easier and allows the bard to actually get into melee. It lets you do some DPS--not a ton, but some.

Thirdly, the proc is a better haste buff than you can otherwise provide, increasing the group's DPS further if you're the one providing haste to them.

It's a pretty big deal.

[Ripqozko]

everyone just repeated what i already said, oof.

[Loadsamoney]

everyone just repeated what i already said, oof.

Lemmingquest.

[Ennewi]

everyone just repeated what i already said, oof.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrain

[Trelaboon]

Alas, I have a job and bills to pay. I must brave the terrible sunlight to keep my internet plugged in.

Much as I may love this game, if something takes months or even years to acquire in any game, no matter how much I adore it, I don't have the free time or patience to commit to it. That's just how it is with me.

If I have the money/resources or the ability to do parts of the Epic myself, I still need to be able to complete it within a month at most, or I'll just get burned out and lose interest at some point. I'm sure my ADHD is partly to blame for that, but alas, I am what I am. And there's a huge backload of Bards and Warriors brawling with one another to complete theirs. Too many alts, not enough scales.

Lol I’m kindof the same way. I have a bunch of epics, but some of them I barely even tried for. I literally got my warriors epic with almost zero actual effort. Just picked up an epic drop here and there over the years, and then one day was like “dang, I just finished my warrior epic”

I never expected to actually get it, so I never really focused on it, then one day it just happened.

[Valakut]

GMs on blue: Heres some fun staff event quest and epics and epic quest pieces are part of the reward

Players on blue: epics are too expensive, unobtainable, and my immersion is shittier than my adult depends

[Loadsamoney]

GMs on blue: Heres some fun staff event quest and epics and epic quest pieces are part of the reward

Players on blue: epics are too expensive, unobtainable, and my immersion is shittier than my adult depends

Feels bad man.

(but yeah I'd argue white scales for 2mil or more is too expensive...)

[Andyman1022]

I would venture a guess that nearly all white/green scales that drop are still being turned into alt epics. You're going to have to position yourself accordingly to loot scales by earning enough DKP in a raiding guild that regularly hits Gore/Vox unfortunately, I don't see the "price" ever coming down below 1 mill

[Toxigen]

1Vf4mMCpNY0

[Loadsamoney]

I would venture a guess that nearly all white/green scales that drop are still being turned into alt epics. You're going to have to position yourself accordingly to loot scales by earning enough DKP in a raiding guild that regularly hits Gore/Vox unfortunately, I don't see the "price" ever coming down below 1 mill

Do the scales ever even get sold to players on the market though? Even at 1-2mil each, are people that have them even willing to sell them most of the time?

[Andyman1022]

I would say they basically never sell them. First of all, most guilds will punish heavily if you turn an item like that into cash, so you would basically be signing your own warrant for removal. Second, most people who bid DKP on them want to turn them into bard epics. Give up hope, it's not going to happen unless you commit to raiding.

[Loadsamoney]

I would say they basically never sell them. First of all, most guilds will punish heavily if you turn an item like that into cash, so you would basically be signing your own warrant for removal. Second, most people who bid DKP on them want to turn them into bard epics. Give up hope, it's not going to happen unless you commit to raiding.

I mentioned to KWSM I'd inquire about trying out for their guild once my Druid is at the appropriate level. They raid on Sundays, which would work for me.

The one I really want to complete at some point is Ranger epic, Earthcaller specifically (for the slow). I feel like that one is somewhat realistic to complete.

[Toxigen]

I mentioned to KWSM I'd inquire about trying out for their guild once my Druid is at the appropriate level. They raid on Sundays, which would work for me.

The one I really want to complete at some point is Ranger epic, Earthcaller specifically (for the slow). I feel like that one is somewhat realistic to complete.

You can purchase the full mq basically, or at least the big ticket items.

Prob run ya about 250k? If you found a seller could pay them for an assist w/ Hole part too.

[Loadsamoney]

You can purchase the full mq basically, or at least the big ticket items.

Prob run ya about 250k? If you found a seller could pay them for an assist w/ Hole part too.

The three main ones are VS stone which is 20k, SEoC which is roughly 150k, and I think a swirling stone for the hammer runs 5k? So I'd guess 175k-200k tops.

[Snaggles]

The Earthcaller is nice but at 60 will just end up in the bag for weird low-man crew stuff. It’s kind of like a 150k tash stick.

Not to say it’s not fun but the ranger is basically a walking shop of curiosities and sunken cost justification. The bard epic is pretty great across the board.

[Ripqozko]

The three main ones are VS stone which is 20k, SEoC which is roughly 150k, and I think a swirling stone for the hammer runs 5k? So I'd guess 175k-200k tops.

Seoc is 200k+ easy , or free in kittens

[Loadsamoney]

Seoc is 200k+ easy , or free in kittens

Patience my fellow degenerate, when the time comes and my Druid reaches around 49 or so, when I know I'm committed to grinding it out, then I will journey for my cat ears and my whiskers. I want to be useful to my guild first though, and 49 is the point when a Druid can port pretty much everywhere.

And Druid epic is a cheap one to complete later, 35k-40k tops (20k VS stone, 10k Pod of Seawater, 5k Swirling Color Sphere, 4k Jade Reaver?). Whether it's a game changer for Druids, I don't know. I doubt it's BiS for them.

[Snaggles]

We don’t get SEoC’s all the time. Hate farm crews are up there a lot.

Sphere of Color is for the ranger epic. There are a handful of fairly rough “corrupted” mobs that summon you will need help with. Kedge seahorse, OOT Seafury, and Lfay brownie. All can be done solo by a torp sham but the kedge is easier with a partner.

[Ripqozko]

We don’t get SEoC’s all the time. Hate farm crews are up there a lot.

Sphere of Color is for the ranger epic. There are a handful of fairly rough “corrupted” mobs that summon you will need help with. Kedge seahorse, OOT Seafury, and Lfay brownie. All can be done solo by a torp sham but the kedge is easier with a partner.

Lfay brownie soloable by ranger, done it several times usually track as I ran through. Sometimes it's just up

[Valakut]

i would just casually farm obscure items needed to craft cultural or exotic high end items and sell them in bulk to some whale with 6 mana stones whos trying to max fashionquest

[Crede]

The Earthcaller is nice but at 60 will just end up in the bag for weird low-man crew stuff. It’s kind of like a 150k tash stick.

Not to say it’s not fun but the ranger is basically a walking shop of curiosities and sunken cost justification. The bard epic is pretty great across the board.

I waited a long time for the Earthcaller & I like to solo a lot so I think it is worth it if you intend to solo. Earthcaller plus Swiftwind or even a better ToV OH weapon is going to do far superior dps than a swarmcaller which I found to be terrible. And sometimes with rng you don't know if you will get a proc so I like the idea of maximizing my dps while waiting for a slow to proc. It's not a necessity but if you have the means to obtain a SEOC I would not advise against it if you have any desire to solo or do low man stuff where a slow isn't always available.

[Ripqozko]

I waited a long time for the Earthcaller & I like to solo a lot so I think it is worth it if you intend to solo. Earthcaller plus Swiftwind or even a better ToV OH weapon is going to do far superior dps than a swarmcaller which I found to be terrible. And sometimes with rng you don't know if you will get a proc so I like the idea of maximizing my dps while waiting for a slow to proc. It's not a necessity but if you have the means to obtain a SEOC I would not advise against it if you have any desire to solo or do low man stuff where a slow isn't always available.

Issue with it, unless ya doing something harder where ya need slow like juggs, with no shm or ench, your better off dpsing with sboz or better, which is like 25% of the cost of seoc. I rarely use my earthcaller.

[Loadsamoney]

We don’t get SEoC’s all the time. Hate farm crews are up there a lot.

Sphere of Color is for the ranger epic. There are a handful of fairly rough “corrupted” mobs that summon you will need help with. Kedge seahorse, OOT Seafury, and Lfay brownie. All can be done solo by a torp sham but the kedge is easier with a partner.

I read on their page that Kittens did Sky/Fear/Hate and entry-level raids on the regular, it's the upper stuff like ToV they don't do often.

Even so, 200k+ for a hate emerald seems pricy, especially since no other Epic needs it. I don't remember Blue having a whole lot of Ranger alts to compete for them either, they got a bad rap since the Kunark days and people tended to avoid them.

[Andyman1022]

The upper stuff.. lol

[Loadsamoney]

The upper stuff.. lol

I'm just looking at their front page.

[Toxigen]

Even so, 200k+ for a hate emerald seems pricy, especially since no other Epic needs it.

You're not exactly in a position of power bargaining with the person who has the gate-keeping piece of your epic.

Likely won't find one for less than 200k.

[Loadsamoney]

You're not exactly in a position of power bargaining with the person who has the gate-keeping piece of your epic.

Likely won't find one for less than 200k.

Wrong. I hold the cards sir. I'm John Wick and you're the three guys in a bar that I killed earlier with a Pencil.

(obviously, but I can still make the observation that 200k for an epic piece only one class uses in a zone that a lot of people frequent is highball)

[Ripqozko]

Wrong. I hold the cards sir. I'm John Wick and you're the three guys in a bar that I killed earlier with a Pencil.

(obviously, but I can still make the observation that 200k for an epic piece only one class uses in a zone that a lot of people frequent is highball)

its rare enough that people will pay 200k+ easy even tho the item is kinda not that great, just to be a completionist . You can try to get for 150 but i promise you wont.

[Loadsamoney]

its rare enough that people will pay 200k+ easy even tho the item is kinda not that great, just to be a completionist . You can try to get for 150 but i promise you wont.

I won't. But I won't pay more than 200k when the time comes either. That'd be the limit.

Honestly when the time comes and I feel like rerolling Ranger I may try to save up for some serious twink items first, namely SBoZ and BoC, and a much haste belt like SSHB. He's geared decent right now and has some money put away, but I really had fun leveling him up so I don't mind doing it again.

[Toxigen]

Really all you need is Swiftwind and SBoZ unless you're trying to solo artist or pull off tough stuff w/o a slower.

[Loadsamoney]

Really all you need is Swiftwind and SBoZ unless you're trying to solo artist or pull off tough stuff w/o a slower.

I like to solo mainly, but I was going to start getting in the habit of bow rotting with a Tolan's bracer, though I don't know if Talisen Trailblazer Bow makes for a good ranged option, I use it only for the stats.

Presently my Ranger uses dual Lamentation, was planning to at least upgrade to Winter's Fury and Skyfury Scimitar.

[Toxigen]

I like to solo mainly, but I was going to start getting in the habit of bow rotting with a Tolan's bracer, though I don't know if Talisen Trailblazer Bow makes for a good ranged option, I use it only for the stats.

Presently my Ranger uses dual Lamentation, was planning to at least upgrade to Winter's Fury and Skyfury Scimitar.

You need a woodsmans staff. stat.

There is no other single upgrade better right now within your reach. Woody staff will absolutely crush winters + skyfury.

Especially since you solo...you're tanking unslowed mobs. Fewer mob ripostes = moar gud

And don't tell me you don't like 2 handers. Going on feels is for shitters. You'll thank me later.

[Ripqozko]

I won't. But I won't pay more than 200k when the time comes either. That'd be the limit.

Honestly when the time comes and I feel like rerolling Ranger I may try to save up for some serious twink items first, namely SBoZ and BoC, and a much haste belt like SSHB. He's geared decent right now and has some money put away, but I really had fun leveling him up so I don't mind doing it again.

Boc is a waste buy sboz and your swift wind MQ, or just get a woodsman staff.

[Loadsamoney]

You need a woodsmans staff. stat.

There is no other single upgrade better right now within your reach. Woody staff will absolutely crush winters + skyfury.

Especially since you solo...you're tanking unslowed mobs. Fewer mob ripostes = moar gud

And don't tell me you don't like 2 handers. Going on feels is for shitters. You'll thank me later.

Yeah yeah I know the drill, I will get one eventually. But I would be remiss not to say I do like going on feels. I like flashy animations and seeing a bunch of little swings, which is why, if I eventually go Monk, I'd probably prefer AC/SoS over T-Staff.

Does Woody crush SBoZ/BoC or Swifty though? I never figured +30 Attack is that huge of a DPS boost.

Boc is a waste buy sboz and your swift wind MQ, or just get a woodsman staff.

Doesn't BoC have a slightly better ratio? Something like .065 vs 0.61?

[Snaggles]

Lfay brownie soloable by ranger, done it several times usually track as I ran through. Sometimes it's just up

Yea true. I was meaning for his 49 Druid.

I read on their page that Kittens did Sky/Fear/Hate and entry-level raids on the regular, it's the upper stuff like ToV they don't do often.

We do all sorts of stuff, especially on quakes. My comment was based on years of raiding Hate with Kittens. One year we got like 6 SEOC’s including mine. It’s been a bit dry lately but less people needing it so supply v demand. In four years or so I’ve only heard of one sub 60 main getting one on a random Hate raid. When minis spawn people to kill them fairly quickly so not much time to wait for a community event.

Does Woody crush SBoZ/BoC or Swifty though? I never figured +30 Attack is that huge of a DPS boost.

Doesn't BoC have a slightly better ratio? Something like .065 vs 0.61?

SBoZ is 40k. Woodsman is <4k. Your math is a bit off on the ratio and doesn’t include damage bonus which scales per level.
DW mid 50’s with a Swiftwind is probably better but it won’t be huge. Nothing really is once you get to relative tiers and 2h is very strong in recent patches. Plus you can nuke and jolt without watching your dps piddle away.

Also 2h for monks is really good. Anyone not using a Peacebringer or IFS for an AC/SoS these days is having fun but missing out, especially at 60. IMHO but I don’t have a monk.

[Loadsamoney]

Yea true. I was meaning for his 49 Druid.



We do all sorts of stuff, especially on quakes. My comment was based on years of raiding Hate with Kittens. One year we got like 6 SEOC’s including mine. It’s been a bit dry lately but less people needing it so supply v demand. In four years or so I’ve only heard of one sub 60 main getting one on a random Hate raid. When minis spawn people to kill them fairly quickly so not much time to wait for a community event.



SBoZ is 40k. Woodsman is <4k. Your math is a bit off on the ratio and doesn’t include damage bonus which scales per level.
DW mid 50’s with a Swiftwind is probably better but it won’t be huge. Nothing really is once you get to relative tiers and 2h is very strong in recent patches. Plus you can nuke and jolt without watching your dps piddle away.

Also 2h for monks is really good. Anyone not using a Peacebringer or IFS for an AC/SoS these days is having fun but missing out, especially at 60. IMHO but I don’t have a monk.

I’ll probably go all weapon types on a reroll later to keep them all relevant while leveling, Woody, SS, Backstabber and Jade Mace. But I still love my Lammies even if Woody outparses them. They just feel so slick.

[Toxigen]

I’ll probably go all weapon types on a reroll later to keep them all relevant while leveling, Woody, SS, Backstabber and Jade Mace. But I still love my Lammies even if Woody outparses them. They just feel so slick.

just kill the same mobs...one w/ your lammies and one with your woody

you wont feel anything for the lammies after that

[jolanar]

just kill the same mobs...one w/ your lammies and one with your woody

you wont feel anything for the lammies after that

As a person who prefers dual wield, I kinda hate how much better 2h weapons are this late in the P99 timeline.

[Toxigen]

As a person who prefers dual wield, I kinda hate how much better 2h weapons are this late in the P99 timeline.

its not even the extra damage that has all the appeal...you just take a lot less damage too...moar merbs per hour

i think what turns people off is the negative side of the RNG - when your hits dry up for a few swings it just feels so bad

but then you have these massive max/near max with a big riposte...those go less noticed...theres some psychological term for it but i cant remember

[Snaggles]

As a person who prefers dual wield, I kinda hate how much better 2h weapons are this late in the P99 timeline.

I have a Vyemm whip and claw of lightning in my bag. It’s sad but even with a spiked belt and shiss the Cek 2h is often higher.

There are still reasons to DW. Stats and proc. Mixing it up. Quick swapping to tash/slow/bfg for a ranger. But yea…2h is very very strong.

[Toxigen]

I have a Vyemm whip and claw of lightning in my bag. It’s sad but even with a spiked belt and shiss the Cek 2h is often higher.

There are still reasons to DW. Stats and proc. Mixing it up. Quick swapping to tash/slow/bfg for a ranger. But yea…2h is very very strong.

god i love that vyemm whip...was god tier before the rune aggro nerf but still let my warrior do some really fun, off meta duos in conjunction with truncheon slow

literally anyone with a root and we could dominate some pretty big xp camps

[Loadsamoney]

its not even the extra damage that has all the appeal...you just take a lot less damage too...moar merbs per hour

i think what turns people off is the negative side of the RNG - when your hits dry up for a few swings it just feels so bad

but then you have these massive max/near max with a big riposte...those go less noticed...theres some psychological term for it but i cant remember

I think a saying my old 3DSMax professor preached applies here.

"You don't get noticed for the 99% you do right, you get noticed for the 1% you do wrong."

[Snaggles]

god i love that vyemm whip...was god tier before the rune aggro nerf but still let my warrior do some really fun, off meta duos in conjunction with truncheon slow

literally anyone with a root and we could dominate some pretty big xp camps

Yea a shame about that :( . It’s still very nice for mitigation tanking and sucking up AoE’s. The 25mr is hard to beat for a pulling weapon too or I expect a warrior just trying to avoid fears and do dps.

[Loadsamoney]

I have a Vyemm whip and claw of lightning in my bag. It’s sad but even with a spiked belt and shiss the Cek 2h is often higher.

There are still reasons to DW. Stats and proc. Mixing it up. Quick swapping to tash/slow/bfg for a ranger. But yea…2h is very very strong.

Maybe what I'll do is save 100k to twink my Ranger just a bit more for a reroll but not go for SBoZ or BoC. It'll be Woodsman's Staff (and Silver Swiftblade before the damage cap is lifted), Spiked Seahorse Hide Belt, Hierophant's Cloak, Necklace of Superiority, and Fungi. Can probably swing all of that for 100k even.

[Crede]

Maybe what I'll do is save 100k to twink my Ranger just a bit more for a reroll but not go for SBoZ or BoC. It'll be Woodsman's Staff (and Silver Swiftblade before the damage cap is lifted), Spiked Seahorse Hide Belt, Hierophant's Cloak, Necklace of Superiority, and Fungi. Can probably swing all of that for 100k even.

I’d go with herb spade over wood staff if you don’t mind the look. Better ratio and 2h dmg bonus and at 49+ the root does help a lot if you need to heal a bit during combat which rangers definitely need to at some point. It’s also good for some occasional cc since their normal root sucks.

[Loadsamoney]

I’d go with herb spade over wood staff if you don’t mind the look. Better ratio and 2h dmg bonus and at 49+ the root does help a lot if you need to heal a bit during combat which rangers definitely need to at some point. It’s also good for some occasional cc since their normal root sucks.

Why didn't anybody else mention the Herbalist Spade?

[Jimjam]

Why didn't anybody else mention the Herbalist Spade?

Many of the posters giving advice levelled their rangers on Blue some years ago (before Chardok) and now have epics / tov / city boss stuff on their rangers so Chardok may be a little outside their scope of consideration.

[Loadsamoney]

Many of the posters giving advice levelled their rangers on Blue some years ago (before Chardok) and now have epics / tov / city boss stuff on their rangers so Chardok may be a little outside their scope of consideration.

So the spade didn't exist before Velious? Does the Spade beat the Woody? I'd rather not get both, pick one or the other. I'll be using Silver Swiftblade before 30 anyway, damage cap and all.

[Jimjam]

So the spade didn't exist before Velious? Does the Spade beat the Woody? I'd rather not get both, pick one or the other. I'll be using Silver Swiftblade before 30 anyway, damage cap and all.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Chardok_Revamp_Era

[Loadsamoney]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Chardok_Revamp_Era

How about you? Do you and Snaggles recommend the spade over a Woody?

Woody is ugly anyway, so looks are irrelevant here; it's just a question of if the Spade is indeed better overall damage from 30 on.

[Ripqozko]

How about you? Do you and Snaggles recommend the spade over a Woody?

Woody is ugly anyway, so looks are irrelevant here; it's just a question of if the Spade is indeed better overall damage from 30 on.

Just sort weapons by ratio on wiki -loramin

[Loadsamoney]

Just sort weapons by ratio on wiki -loramin

It's only a 0.02 point different, 0.88 vs 0.90.

But I wish people would stop telling me to just look at the wiki. I want feedback from seasoned veterans with years of knowledge and experience to explain the how and the why. I value peoples opinions on matters like this.

[Ripqozko]

It's only a 0.02 point different, 0.88 vs 0.90.

But I wish people would stop telling me to just look at the wiki. I want feedback from seasoned veterans with years of knowledge and experience to explain the how and the why. I value peoples opinions on matters like this.

Use the wiki -loramin

[Loadsamoney]

Use the wiki -loramin

Thanks, I'll keep asking.

[Snaggles]

The herbalist spade eventually will proc up to a 2.5 min root spell. It’s a blessing and a curse. Sometimes it’s better for them to flee. If you want to keep them locked down that’s really handy. A rooted mob attacks the nearest PC so in a group that can help control who’s getting hit (or not).

It’s a bit slower than the woodsman which makes casting between swings more ideal. Bigger player ripostes, less DS damage taken. It’s all/all so works good for a lot of classes vs just one class (also more expensive).

The basic calculation to compare ratios is:
Main or 2h: 2x dmg + dmg bonus / delay
Offhand: 2x dmg / delay

Woodsman:
31x2= 62 + (dmg bonus per level) / 35
(2.142 at 50)
(2.657 at 60)

Herbalist:
39x2= 78 + (dmg bonus per level) / 43
(2.186 at 50)
(2.674 at 60)

https://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html?setcookie=1

It’s pretty close. Some quicker 2h’s fare better than they should for the ratio. I don’t think either would be noticeably better 50+ parsing past random chance.

I had a Woodsman a long time and soloed to 60. Some melee but a lot of bow rotting at close range. Most good animal fear spots will green out around 49 around when the spade would start proccing. Paralyzing Earth is helpful for a bit of extra safety so it would probably be my pick. Plus it looks cool :)

Anything prone to complete heal or gate in a group situation I would use something else than a root weapon. Luckily worst case you will have a Swarmcaller too.

[Jimjam]

Thanks, I'll keep asking.

Rip is being ironic as simply considering ratio overlooks a lot of how to tier weapons.

I was lucky enough the be pretty actively playing during the Azure Guard days and they granted me the gem for Earthcaller so I was mainly rocking my epics for a long time. I’m not really the type to go chasing the best weapons.

I do enjoy the trash clear type raids and did eventually manage to get a Braid of Tunare for very little dkp, which is noticeably better than Earthcaller (but Earthcaller still gets a lot of use). As I understand it the braid is a second tier 1 hander, and even the best 1 handers compare unfavourably to the best couple of tiers of 2 handers (i don’t have a great 2 hander - i have a Culler (31/37 trash drop from upper Hate) which gets used to slaughter stuff around the Rivervale are while waiting for rezzes).

So tldr Earthcaller is very expensive compared to alternatives, but it does have a niche (I don’t think my ranger could solo the 50+ KC nameds without it). For xp grinding, even solo, you’re probably best just going for max dps which apparently means 2 hander (but I can’t vouch that from a deep 1st hand experience).

[Loadsamoney]

Rip is being ironic as simply considering ratio overlooks a lot of how to tier weapons.

I was lucky enough the be pretty actively playing during the Azure Guard days and they granted me the gem for Earthcaller so I was mainly rocking my epics for a long time. I’m not really the type to go chasing the best weapons.

I do enjoy the trash clear type raids and did eventually manage to get a Braid of Tunare for very little dkp, which is noticeably better than Earthcaller (but Earthcaller still gets a lot of use). As I understand it the braid is a second tier 1 hander, and even the best 1 handers compare unfavourably to the best couple of tiers of 2 handers (i don’t have a great 2 hander - i have a Culler (31/37 trash drop from upper Hate) which gets used to slaughter stuff around the Rivervale are while waiting for rezzes).

So tldr Earthcaller is very expensive compared to alternatives, but it does have a niche (I don’t think my ranger could solo the 50+ KC nameds without it). For xp grinding, even solo, you’re probably best just going for max dps which apparently means 2 hander (but I can’t vouch that from a deep 1st hand experience).

To be fair I had forgotten about Swarmcaller, which could serve as a Tash stick in a group setting too. Don't think I'd use it solo because it'd be too RNG dependant on an early proc and losing DPS/HP if it doesn't, but I should still have it in my toolkit.

I guess I should just get both, honestly. Silver Swiftblade for 20-30, Woody for 30-50, Spade for 50 onwards, unless the root would be detrimental. Then having the Woody as a fallback would be damn nice.

[Foxplay]

Unless they add Scales to WW dragons / ToV dragons. Bard and Warrior epic is pretty much join a raiding guild.

Even in the rare event somebody sold a Green / White scale the astronomical amount of plat they would ask / have you pay would be so much that you could have just joined a guild and farmed dkp for it faster than it would take to farm that amount of plat

[Snaggles]

The braid is solid. I’ve parsed next to a guildie with one a lot using various 1h weapons and he’s right up there and the dot is an invisible 8dps when it’s rolling.

There are a lot of B (even the Vyemm whip is) and C tier 1h’s. Even a Nev claw or Sboz can luck out on a parse.

[Toxigen]

Oh yeah forgot about Swarmcaller. Definitely want to open with that every mob then swap to woodsmans.

[Loadsamoney]

Oh yeah forgot about Swarmcaller. Definitely want to open with that every mob then swap to woodsmans.

I hope it's a consistent proc, because I'd get pretty frustrated if I wear a mob down to 20% or less when it finally goes off and I lost more health than necessary because of bad rng.

If there's a reason I favor Dual-Wield over 2Handers, it's consistency. I like sustained over burst, or peaks and valleys. I'm not a fan of high variance.

[Toxigen]

I hope it's a consistent proc, because I'd get pretty frustrated if I wear a mob down to 20% or less when it finally goes off and I lost more health than necessary because of bad rng.

If there's a reason I favor Dual-Wield over 2Handers, it's consistency. I like sustained over burst, or peaks and valleys. I'm not a fan of high variance.

Again, its the same thing as why people don't like 2 handers because "it feels bad" when RNG doesn't go their way. The lows are a far greater psychological impact than the highs.

Sometimes you'll slow the mob on the first couple of swings, sometimes it won't proc til you've done 50% of its hp. It'll always be the correct move (when solo) to open with Swarmcaller proc.

But whatever. You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. The fact is your thought process is wrong.

[Loadsamoney]

Again, its the same thing as why people don't like 2 handers because "it feels bad" when RNG doesn't go their way. The lows are a far greater psychological impact than the highs.

Sometimes you'll slow the mob on the first couple of swings, sometimes it won't proc til you've done 50% of its hp. It'll always be the correct move (when solo) to open with Swarmcaller proc.

But whatever. You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. The fact is your thought process is wrong.

I didn't say I disagree with you or that I wouldn't use it, I just said there's a reason why I like the feel of dual-wielding even if it's inferior, and that it'll be pretty frustrating when bad variance hits. I'm still going to commit though, as I want to learn to play the class more optimally, to my benefit and my future guildies as well.

Gotta unwrinkle those jimmies a little man.

[Ripqozko]

I didn't say I disagree with you or that I wouldn't use it, I just said there's a reason why I like the feel of dual-wielding even if it's inferior, and that it'll be pretty frustrating when bad variance hits. I'm still going to commit though, as I want to learn to play the class more optimally, to my benefit and my future guildies as well.

Gotta unwrinkle those jimmies a little man.

2h is way better then 1h less high ac, it's parsed to death. Cek sword>kriezen flame end game.

[Loadsamoney]

2h is way better then 1h less high ac, it's parsed to death. Cek sword>kriezen flame end game.

End-game for me is a Primal 2her/bow with Avatar. But that's probably years away.

[Ripqozko]

End-game for me is a Primal 2her/bow with Avatar. But that's probably years away.

Cek sword is bis, ya only use primal to proc. If you can get a primal you can get trips.

[Jimjam]

Nothing is better than Cek’s?

[Ripqozko]

Nothing is better than Cek’s?

That's what he said

[Loadsamoney]

Really all you need is Swiftwind and SBoZ unless you're trying to solo artist or pull off tough stuff w/o a slower.

Boc is a waste buy sboz and your swift wind MQ, or just get a woodsman staff.

I don't understand why BoC isn't recommended, especially over SBoZ, but disregarding BoC, why not Salindrite Dagger? Why is that thing never mentioned? It has an even better ratio than SBoZ at 13/18, great stats and a nice proc to boot.

[Jimjam]

Warder exclusive loot no longer drops.

[Snaggles]

Yea Gluck with that plat buy…

As for ratio SboZ > BoC because speed matters. Or at least it matters because the modified ratio with an 11pt damage bonus doesn’t permit the better ratio BoC to outperform it in the main hand.

[Andyman1022]

15/23 is a garbage ratio for mainhand. You want a really fast weapon to take advantage of mainhand damage bonus applications. This is especially true on high ac raid bosses, such as AOW. You're going to get a lot of minimum hits, so its important to get as many in as possible.

[Toxigen]

why not Salindrite Dagger? Why is that thing never mentioned?

because sorry you dont got warder loot hope this helps

[Loadsamoney]

15/23 is a garbage ratio for mainhand. You want a really fast weapon to take advantage of mainhand damage bonus applications. This is especially true on high ac raid bosses, such as AOW. You're going to get a lot of minimum hits, so its important to get as many in as possible.

Are you saying the 9/19 Lammy is a better MH weapon at 60 than BoC?

[Andyman1022]

No, I'm saying SBOZ is a better MH weapon at 60 than BOC, although it may be close if you parse BOC vs Lammy tbh. The speed makes a big difference.

[Ripqozko]

2x damage +11 / delay is the primary weapon formula
33/18= 1.83 (swiftblade)
41/23=1.78 (Boc)

add in your favorite weapons to figure out others. Cecily did a thread on this years ago for common weapons.

[Jimjam]

It’s worth mentioning that formula is an estimate that doesn’t consider the fact mitigation will varyingly impact the dmg stat but not damage bonus.

That said it is an effective guideline.

[Loadsamoney]

Did bean counters have anywhere near this much of a textbook on EQ formulas and gameplay mechanics 20 years ago? That's honestly impressive how players are able to math this stuff out.

[Ripqozko]

It’s worth mentioning that formula is an estimate that doesn’t consider the fact mitigation will varyingly impact the dmg stat but not damage bonus.

That said it is an effective guideline.

Its at least a halfway standard even if not 100% it shows how well speed can effect bonus dmg.

[Snaggles]

It’s how to compare things rather than spending countless hours parsing. In general over long samples the napkin math should be accurate. Most parses are short so even a rando with EC stuff can land on the top of a HoT kill.

BoC is more expensive and slightly worse. As a proponent of cheap gear this is a no-brainer unless you’re a stamina shy knight tryhard looking for a ramp weapon.

The only slow AF 1h that breaks all the rules is the BFG. On disc or off. But so many factors to consider with that.

[Ravager]

I get burned out too easily. Play for a month, two at the most, then disappear for 6 because of boredom.

This is the way.