View Full Version : Current state of blue vs. green?
EQBallzz
05-29-2023, 01:31 AM
I haven't logged into P99 in a long time. If the pop counter is correct it looks like green has twice the active pop of blue? Is that accurate? I logged into blue and ran around a bit (between swamp and EC) and felt pretty dead but don't even remember how busy it was when I last played years ago so can't really tell how much more dead it might be (if at all).
Valakut
05-29-2023, 10:41 AM
most of the hardcore raiders play both, casual raid scene died a year into velious now its all hardcore raiders lurking on alts to sponge up more raid loot, casual non raiders show up mostly on the weekends or in the evening. blue trade scene is dead its all chardok loot in the tunnel but supposedly people use discord pretty effectively even though thats not classic.
a new tlp is overdue but if theres enough to launch a TLP without affecting blue and green remains to be seen.
EQBallzz
05-29-2023, 01:29 PM
most of the hardcore raiders play both, casual raid scene died a year into velious now its all hardcore raiders lurking on alts to sponge up more raid loot, casual non raiders show up mostly on the weekends or in the evening. blue trade scene is dead its all chardok loot in the tunnel but supposedly people use discord pretty effectively even though thats not classic.
a new tlp is overdue but if theres enough to launch a TLP without affecting blue and green remains to be seen.
Damn. That's too bad. That is sort of the feeling that I got. I tried to talk in OOC in EC but nobody even bothered to reply. There were a handful of people in the tunnel (mostly AFK) with a few sporadic, sad auctions.
The one thing I wasn't really interested in (raiding) seems to be the only thing that isn't dead. Sad. :(
enjchanter
05-29-2023, 07:14 PM
The one thing I wasn't really interested in (raiding) seems to be the only thing that isn't dead. Sad. :(
yeah this is the primary reason the game sux
branamil
05-29-2023, 09:01 PM
Blue = museum, barely any XP groups under 45 because they're being powerleveled. Stagnant raid scene, but more chill people because it doesn't really matter as they're on their 11th alt. Dead EC tunnel economy
Green = Bloodthirsty, shrill, and overcamped. The kinda place where someone will petition you at the level 5 Orc Tent because they don't understand social aggro, died to too many orcs, then say you trained and griefed them.
Glorfinrod
05-29-2023, 09:26 PM
Haven't been on Blue in a while, but I would also like to point out that Green is much more rife with hella stupid names (compared to what I remember on Blue).
EQBallzz
05-29-2023, 10:35 PM
Blue = museum, barely any XP groups under 45 because they're being powerleveled. Stagnant raid scene, but more chill people because it doesn't really matter as they're on their 11th alt. Dead EC tunnel economy
Green = Bloodthirsty, shrill, and overcamped. The kinda place where someone will petition you at the level 5 Orc Tent because they don't understand social aggro, died to too many orcs, then say you trained and griefed them.
Good lord. What has happened to P99? When I played years ago on blue..sure the end game raiding scene was kind of toxic but the rest of the game was pretty good. I found groups everywhere. EC tunnel seemed active enough. It was overall a pretty fun leveling experience and even some of the low end raiding was pretty fun (usually). Seems like any semblance of "classic" EQ might actually be dead dead now. Sad.
Arvan
05-29-2023, 10:52 PM
Imagine ever logging into ec tunnel ever again when discordquest exists
jwargod
05-30-2023, 01:00 AM
42 Iksar Warrior Muhwife
Had a bad time after coming in after several years (last played when velious came out on p99/blue) trying to find a group as a 40-41 warrior this weekend on blue. There were people doing things, but it was all small groups/duos or power leveling. I even solo'd for awhile and offered this yeti camp in DL to a 40 monk who came by and they didn't respond. Bad luck eventually happened and I had to run out. When I came back, it was the same monk and a 57 shaman with them inside the case. I'm not mad they moved in, I'm mad they didn't take the offer in the first place where I would've left. Why didn't they want to talk? Is socializing that bad on blue?
Very little people want to group in this server or are tribalistic. I did manage to meet a nice Shaman and and monk/paladin yesterday for some pretty good xp, and even a druid lfg today, but there was endless hours of lfg between all that. Not to mention the EC trade tunnel is dead. Did I go to various places to look for a group in my range? Yes, even making sure to talk with some druids or wizards to make sure I moved around in a timely matter. And of course I tipped.
I'm still here lfg, and I'm just going to solo what I can in Dreadlands until I run out of bandages.
Ripqozko
05-30-2023, 01:36 AM
42 Iksar Warrior Muhwife
Had a bad time after coming in after several years (last played when velious came out on p99/blue) trying to find a group as a 40-41 warrior this weekend on blue. There were people doing things, but it was all small groups/duos or power leveling. I even solo'd for awhile and offered this yeti camp in DL to a 40 monk who came by and they didn't respond. Bad luck eventually happened and I had to run out. When I came back, it was the same monk and a 57 shaman with them inside the case. I'm not mad they moved in, I'm mad they didn't take the offer in the first place where I would've left. Why didn't they want to talk? Is socializing that bad on blue?
Very little people want to group in this server or are tribalistic. I did manage to meet a nice Shaman and and monk/paladin yesterday for some pretty good xp, and even a druid lfg today, but there was endless hours of lfg between all that. Not to mention the EC trade tunnel is dead. Did I go to various places to look for a group in my range? Yes, even making sure to talk with some druids or wizards to make sure I moved around in a timely matter. And of course I tipped.
I'm still here lfg, and I'm just going to solo what I can in Dreadlands until I run out of bandages.
pugs are pretty hard to find nowadays, on bright side there is some good leveling type guilds to find and make grouping slightly easier. Tunnel is kinda dead cause a lot of folks moved to discord tunnelquest so that ya dont have to sit there all the time.
Fammaden
05-30-2023, 07:18 AM
People do PuG all the time on green, but there are a ton of inexperienced people in those PuG's who might drive you crazy. So much laziness, tabbed out autoattacking, afk manasong camp bards....even at the higher levels. If you're used to the hyper efficiency mindset from years of playing here, it gets pretty frustrating at times when only one or two people in a group are pulling their weight.
Part of the problem is on blue the conventional wisdom is that full groups are a waste of time, duo/trio is the min/max approach to XP, and many alts have the gear to make those small configurations really cook. On green generally the PuG's just fill the group, even if its suboptimal or not a needed class. Two tanks? No problem, you're in.
Overall the population disparity and the prevalence of actual new players on green makes blue a more challenging place to LFG for XP.
FroyoBuggins
05-30-2023, 02:18 PM
Came back after 20 years two weeks ago, found a solid guild. Got twinked out by generous people randomly, and can confirm the power leveling.
But again, solid guild (Friendly Druids). People have been really nice generally, but yes, I've noticed the population issue, and that's coming from playing PvP where grouping was also a b-word.
It's sadly a natural issue of a 25 year old game with no new content or marketing. I'm staying until I kill a dragon or get to raid the planes.
cd288
05-30-2023, 04:48 PM
Damn. That's too bad. That is sort of the feeling that I got. I tried to talk in OOC in EC but nobody even bothered to reply. There were a handful of people in the tunnel (mostly AFK) with a few sporadic, sad auctions.
The one thing I wasn't really interested in (raiding) seems to be the only thing that isn't dead. Sad. :(
I'm honestly not sure what the guy you're replying to is referring to. I buy and sell tons of stuff in the tunnel on Blue all the time. I also play on Green and besides price differences and maybe being slightly faster for a transaction, there's no real difference.
mycoolrausch
05-30-2023, 06:38 PM
Blue even post green had a nice PUG path 51-60 with the Hole. But then they slightly nerfed the zem and it's a ghost town again with people back in KC fighting over LCY mobs that are half green. Or plvling.
Buff Hole zem like 1% but widely announce it on the front page with bold letters and stuff and the psychological factor will bring Hole pugs back.
Tethler
05-31-2023, 04:09 AM
Blue even post green had a nice PUG path 51-60 with the Hole. But then they slightly nerfed the zem and it's a ghost town again with people back in KC fighting over LCY mobs that are half green. Or plvling.
Buff Hole zem like 1% but widely announce it on the front page with bold letters and stuff and the psychological factor will bring Hole pugs back.
With the bonus xp weekend, the Hole on blue had like 20 people when I poked my head in. I assume it's dead outside the bonus xp periods though.
Fammaden
05-31-2023, 06:45 AM
People start going back to the hole on bonus weekends yeah partly due to overcrowding everywhere, then it dies again after the XP bonus is off. This is even despite many people in game chat agreeing that the hole is better than KC in every way except convenience.
Yet the convenience factor is heavily mitigated the more people are actually playing in the zone.
Valakut
05-31-2023, 08:44 AM
Good lord. What has happened to P99? When I played years ago on blue..sure the end game raiding scene was kind of toxic but the rest of the game was pretty good. I found groups everywhere. EC tunnel seemed active enough. It was overall a pretty fun leveling experience and even some of the low end raiding was pretty fun (usually). Seems like any semblance of "classic" EQ might actually be dead dead now. Sad.
yeah its unfortunate but as someone who got to see all 3 eras on p99. everyone always thought the next era would make the server better but all it ever did was make it worse.
vanilla - knights who say ni hosting 150 person fear crawl pugs just pure classic adventuring
kunark - casual guilds clearing fear trash for fun and random armor drops shaman epics are 25k
velious - everyone is scared to zone into fear for fear of being disqualified on raid loot
i know fear is a niche thing but its a good reflection of how the server devolved from adventuring with strangers into cold calculating pixel drop rate probabilities
Toxigen
05-31-2023, 08:46 AM
KC is for shitters.
Do better.
Vadriel
05-31-2023, 08:58 AM
Jwargod, I'm the shaman who was in DL with my friend when you offered the camp. I'm sorry you were upset that we didn't respond we were just busy talking to each other. We did what we thought was polite and left the camp to you because normally exp camps are hard to come by. You said you couldn't find a group and we didn't want to shove you out. I've personally had good luck finding groups by just reaching out to other players in tells and asking if they could use whatever character I'm playing at the time. It does take being social and friendly to get by in a video game with no matchmaking system. And sometimes there is nothing we can organize or hop into so that's why everyone has alts.
yeah its unfortunate but as someone who got to see all 3 eras on p99. everyone always thought the next era would make the server better but all it ever did was make it worse.
vanilla - knights who say ni hosting 150 person fear crawl pugs just pure classic adventuring
kunark - casual guilds clearing fear trash for fun and random armor drops shaman epics are 25k
velious - everyone is scared to zone into fear for fear of being disqualified on raid loot
i know fear is a niche thing but its a good reflection of how the server devolved from adventuring with strangers into cold calculating pixel drop rate probabilities
Little misleading not to acknowledge that fear clears for loot don't make sense when velious class armors etc becomes available. I do miss plane of hate and sky clear days from kunark though.
enjchanter
06-01-2023, 10:54 PM
did they add the pet window back in yet or is green still unplayable
Valakut
06-04-2023, 07:57 AM
Little misleading not to acknowledge that fear clears for loot don't make sense when velious class armors etc becomes available. I do miss plane of hate and sky clear days from kunark though.
thank you for copping to it.
theres no point to adventuring in everquest when you can minmax velious.
this really captures the millennial and gen z sense of entitlement as well as western imperial elitism.
JeremyDS
06-05-2023, 12:25 PM
All it captures is the path of least resistance.
GNMCLR99
06-12-2023, 06:36 PM
One server is dead, the other is dying. Next question?
Valik1016
07-10-2023, 04:19 PM
Vadriel, I can appreciate that you and your friend were chatting, but were you really SO busy that you couldn't respond to someone else? And you're telling him that he should be more social to find groups.....well that is only helpful if the people you reach out to answer you back. I can see why he was frustrated. Even if you told him you were busy chatting and would be a minute before you could talk to him, that would be something. He would probably have totally accepted that. It takes two participants to be social.
Haven't been on Blue in a while, but I would also like to point out that Green is much more rife with hella stupid names (compared to what I remember on Blue).
Green is great but this is pretty much true LOL.
rubicaant
07-18-2023, 10:02 PM
Creating green and splitting p99 playerbase has ruined p99 for me. I am invested in my blue characters, but have no desire to start over or level alts since the low level game is barren now. And i hear Green low level scene is pretty toxic.
Swish
07-18-2023, 10:15 PM
Green is a good concept while the timeline is in progress, but its at the end of the cycle so its literally 2 servers of the same thing. If they merge it the competitive raid scene/RNF would be next level ;)
Croco
07-18-2023, 10:48 PM
Creating green and splitting p99 playerbase has ruined p99 for me. I am invested in my blue characters, but have no desire to start over or level alts since the low level game is barren now. And i hear Green low level scene is pretty toxic.
This. Green was a mistake.
cd288
07-19-2023, 09:35 AM
Green is a good concept while the timeline is in progress, but its at the end of the cycle so its literally 2 servers of the same thing. If they merge it the competitive raid scene/RNF would be next level ;)
If they ever do another Green I hope they merge like 6 months post end of the timeline. At that point it's just kind of pointless to have two servers
Baldwooky
07-19-2023, 02:36 PM
Merge would probably get me interested in actually raiding again.
mozga628
06-12-2025, 11:54 AM
i know i'm just one voice in a chorus, but if it were possible, i would say merge green into blue and allow the game to advance to Luclin. Then start a new server starting over from the beginning.
Even if the game can't advance to luclin, i still think green and blue should merge. and a new newbie server started.
right now i believe its completely redundant to have 2 identical games running simultaneously with no value added to the overall EQ experience.
cd288
06-12-2025, 02:17 PM
I wouldn't want them to advance to Luclin, but it would be cool if they added AAs and then upped the difficulty of Velious raid content accordingly. Would be nice for certain classes who later got fixed via AAs to get that benefit.
Glorindale
06-22-2025, 07:45 PM
I can't see myself playing again unless the server were merged.
Solist
06-22-2025, 09:29 PM
I wouldn't want them to advance to Luclin, but it would be cool if they added AAs and then upped the difficulty of Velious raid content accordingly. Would be nice for certain classes who later got fixed via AAs to get that benefit.
The difficulty of raid content is already 30-100% more difficult than it should be.
evanderheide
06-22-2025, 10:26 PM
Blue and Green should be merged.
A denser server population serves the mission P99 was built to deliver - a living museum dedicated to the 'Classic EverQuest' experience. In a healthy living museum, players should be able to go to popular zones and find pugs. They should also find that sometimes they have to wait for spots in a group.
Depending on other players, and not being fully, individually in control over your own success is the core of 'Classic EverQuest'. Its the reason you remember the 'story' of your character so vividly. You didn't fully control whether you got your epic or even reached max level. A lot of it was the generosity and kindness of others, and some of it was dumb luck. Like life :).
The play experience that came out of the denser player population that used to exist on Blue (before Green opened) was a truer expression of 'Classc Everquest' than what we have now.
Solist
06-22-2025, 11:06 PM
There's 4 types of people:
1. Visceral and co, who stand to make plat they don't need and can't spend, by selling things they have on green on a new fandangled server merge. I fit into this category with plenty of wealth on both servers, but I don't care about a merge either.
2. Those who don't play on both and don't understand a merge would achieve nothing. One super guild wins, it's all just mergers until then.
3. Those who have no idea how the PVE compeitive scene works, and thinks "hurr durr its all bad people automating things stopping me getting my loot"; who think somehow doubling the amount of people after the same content makes it more accessible for them.
3a. Those same folk from grp3 have never left p99 to a server that has what they want, at all of the opportunities presented to them "but i am so invested in blue" while they have a 60 druid in skyshrine gear and need to check allakhazam comments to learn about their alt SK's spells. Over the course of complaining for a decade they never went to Al kabor, TAK, Quarm, etc etc to get all the pixels they ever wanted (and then realise hopefully, the gear is irrelevent, EQ isnt about gear).
4. Those who want competitive EQ, and know it doesn't exist as all the CSR on blue and green don't have any experience in it, as they mostly fell in the 3a column of player before being on staff. Blistig is an exception, but man he is a doozy for favoritism, and has zero experience in winning in a smaller team, only as a zerg player.
CSR is the problem with blue. 60min lockouts was the healthiest blue has ever been. Right now is the unhealthiest blue has ever been. C R FFA was probably the 2nd worse it's been.
Find a happy medium. Until then the place will bleed dozens of players a month because slowly people realise winning a dead server is meaningless. And if you add people, it's just a few weeks/months before it's again winning on a dead server. Make winning meaningful, and losing less punishing, and give people equal opportunity to win; not just giving out free uncontested wins to shut up the people too lazy to line up and compete. Everyone who lined up to race won plenty in the lockout era.
Ban anything faster than SOW in all zones for FTE, pull, support of pulls/FTE.
Thin bone wands/200 range instant only clicky allowed for FTE. No range items for FTE allowed.
Make tracker FTE just a 5 minute lock from eligability because currently it's meaningless. And add racelines to every npc.
60min lockouts.
If you're gonna have rules, at least have rules that allow everyone to compete, not rules like we have that only reward being the largest guild.
Zuranthium
06-22-2025, 11:16 PM
They need to fix the resist system to be classic before launching a new Green server, and allow DPS racing to be the way to dispute content, as was actually the case in classic prior to the Play Nice Policy. If they do implement the Play Nice Policy (LAME), it should be the actual classic PNP, which states spawns must be shared by whoever wants to take turns killing it.
Red also needs to be merged into Blue, and reopened as the custom classic Everquest server, where we can focus on changing the Everquest coding to be more like the game its meant to be, rather than strictly copying the classic code. Don't need a 3rd museum server, let this one be the place where there can be a real evolution.
Right now is the unhealthiest blue has ever been. C R FFA was probably the 2nd worse it's been.
the root cause of everything turning to shit was when the high end players lowered their recruiting standards
i look back on my time playing fondly, right up until i decided to app to tmo.
they even warn about this in the bible, thou shalt not covet thy elf brother's raid loot in EC tunnel.
cd288
06-23-2025, 11:34 AM
There's 4 types of people:
1. Visceral and co, who stand to make plat they don't need and can't spend, by selling things they have on green on a new fandangled server merge. I fit into this category with plenty of wealth on both servers, but I don't care about a merge either.
2. Those who don't play on both and don't understand a merge would achieve nothing. One super guild wins, it's all just mergers until then.
3. Those who have no idea how the PVE compeitive scene works, and thinks "hurr durr its all bad people automating things stopping me getting my loot"; who think somehow doubling the amount of people after the same content makes it more accessible for them.
3a. Those same folk from grp3 have never left p99 to a server that has what they want, at all of the opportunities presented to them "but i am so invested in blue" while they have a 60 druid in skyshrine gear and need to check allakhazam comments to learn about their alt SK's spells. Over the course of complaining for a decade they never went to Al kabor, TAK, Quarm, etc etc to get all the pixels they ever wanted (and then realise hopefully, the gear is irrelevent, EQ isnt about gear).
4. Those who want competitive EQ, and know it doesn't exist as all the CSR on blue and green don't have any experience in it, as they mostly fell in the 3a column of player before being on staff. Blistig is an exception, but man he is a doozy for favoritism, and has zero experience in winning in a smaller team, only as a zerg player.
CSR is the problem with blue. 60min lockouts was the healthiest blue has ever been. Right now is the unhealthiest blue has ever been. C R FFA was probably the 2nd worse it's been.
Find a happy medium. Until then the place will bleed dozens of players a month because slowly people realise winning a dead server is meaningless. And if you add people, it's just a few weeks/months before it's again winning on a dead server. Make winning meaningful, and losing less punishing, and give people equal opportunity to win; not just giving out free uncontested wins to shut up the people too lazy to line up and compete. Everyone who lined up to race won plenty in the lockout era.
Ban anything faster than SOW in all zones for FTE, pull, support of pulls/FTE.
Thin bone wands/200 range instant only clicky allowed for FTE. No range items for FTE allowed.
Make tracker FTE just a 5 minute lock from eligability because currently it's meaningless. And add racelines to every npc.
60min lockouts.
If you're gonna have rules, at least have rules that allow everyone to compete, not rules like we have that only reward being the largest guild.
You need to touch grass since you've clearly become so immersed that you look at everything through a "competition" and endgame/raiding lens.
A lot of us just want a merge because we enjoy the feeling of a more crowded world in general.
kjs86z2
06-23-2025, 12:51 PM
the root cause of everything turning to shit was when the high end players lowered their recruiting standards
yes because of rooted dragons
unroot + 1 hour lockout + merge = people wanting to raid again
until then the only thing keeping people logging in is pixel sickness
evanderheide
06-23-2025, 01:15 PM
You need to touch grass since you've clearly become so immersed that you look at everything through a "competition" and endgame/raiding lens.
A lot of us just want a merge because we enjoy the feeling of a more crowded world in general.
This guy gets it and is making the same argument I am from a player perspective.
Zuranthium
06-23-2025, 02:33 PM
A lot of us just want a merge because we enjoy the feeling of a more crowded world in general.
Not to mention a new Green resetting that server back to pre-Kunark.
But it was a typical myopic Solist post. The guy doesn't understand why MMORPG's exist, nor what actual competitive gaming is.
DeathsSilkyMist
06-23-2025, 02:34 PM
yes because of rooted dragons
unroot + 1 hour lockout + merge = people wanting to raid again
until then the only thing keeping people logging in is pixel sickness
Indeed. Unrooting dragons will allow smaller guilds to compete with larger guilds again, which will make things more interesting.
nor what actual competitive gaming is.
actual competitive games are mostly balanced with some fairy dust of jank sprinkled in for people to madpost and care about
EQ literally has that formula ass backwards and always has
they didn't build a esports stadium in my city because people are interested in watching people raiding in a theme park for casuals or playing the worst balanced pvp game in the history of gaming.
send post.
Solist
06-23-2025, 07:10 PM
You need to touch grass since you've clearly become so immersed that you look at everything through a "competition" and endgame/raiding lens.
A lot of us just want a merge because we enjoy the feeling of a more crowded world in general.
Then you should push the CSR to make the server rules bring players back.
Hundreds of us want to play on blue again. But the current rules simply do not allow it to happen. The writing has been on the wall for years, every guild told CSR what a disaster rooting dragons would be. What a disaster linking guard aggro is. What a disaster removing lockouts was (and the reasons for doing it are gone).
Your CSR are the problem. More players with a merger just means more players would leave, not stay. Merging 300 and 600 people together makes a 600 person server, not a 900.
Thats because the current rules and mechanics do not allow fair competition where you can win mobs with 20-25 people in small guilds, win even more mobs with 30-50 people in bigger guilds, and win even more mobs with 70-80 people in massive zergs. Right now it's 170 person guild wins everything, noone competes, noone even logs in.
You need a roster of 500 people with 300 of them 'active', with 100 of them reliable to be able to compete. Considering both servers are rapidly declining in players; it is what it is. Once Castle gets a few more dunks green will be just as shit as blue.
The playing environment is what brings players and keeps them. Make an environment that doesn't make attempting to compete futile and people do. We've seen it in the past. This whole 'draft' giveaway crap drives more and more people away....they only play during the drafts and otherwise it's a ghost town.
Giving people mobs doesnt make them want to play. Giving them the opportunity to win mobs fairly does. Most of Fuse is also MIA because it's so boring winning when there's no competition lol, All thats left are the kittens coat tail riders who are still excited to win; but soon enough they'll also learn shallow uncompetitive EQ is boring as shit. May as well play on a GM server and #summonitem your own BIS. Good luck to them but currently it's one guild holding the entire server hostage; and it's their right and perogative to do so because the rules favor and force that guild to exist like that.
It's CSR's creation alone. Hundreds of players would return if the servers had rules that attracted players. Merging the servers halves the amount of mobs per person available across both servers; while forcing everyone not in the dominant guild to quit. As seen on blue, as seen on green already. I'm sorry but your problem isn't 'they will come, it's built'; but rather 'build it and they will come'.. Where's Ray Kinsella to mow down his corn field when you need him.
Zuranthium
06-24-2025, 12:38 AM
Everquest is not about boring ass raids and there is no such thing as competitive raiding without PvP or other mechanisms to reward actual player skill and teamwork. Racing for FTE's is not real skill and the game inherently rewards zergs, because there is no mechanism to prevent it, and it inherently rewards low level gameplay, as the NPC's are too brainless to go attack the priority targets (which is the mere starting layer of higher level gameplay).
Teddie1056
06-24-2025, 01:29 AM
Then you should push the CSR to make the server rules bring players back.
Hundreds of us want to play on blue again. But the current rules simply do not allow it to happen. The writing has been on the wall for years, every guild told CSR what a disaster rooting dragons would be. What a disaster linking guard aggro is. What a disaster removing lockouts was (and the reasons for doing it are gone).
Your CSR are the problem. More players with a merger just means more players would leave, not stay. Merging 300 and 600 people together makes a 600 person server, not a 900.
Thats because the current rules and mechanics do not allow fair competition where you can win mobs with 20-25 people in small guilds, win even more mobs with 30-50 people in bigger guilds, and win even more mobs with 70-80 people in massive zergs. Right now it's 170 person guild wins everything, noone competes, noone even logs in.
You need a roster of 500 people with 300 of them 'active', with 100 of them reliable to be able to compete. Considering both servers are rapidly declining in players; it is what it is. Once Castle gets a few more dunks green will be just as shit as blue.
The playing environment is what brings players and keeps them. Make an environment that doesn't make attempting to compete futile and people do. We've seen it in the past. This whole 'draft' giveaway crap drives more and more people away....they only play during the drafts and otherwise it's a ghost town.
Giving people mobs doesnt make them want to play. Giving them the opportunity to win mobs fairly does. Most of Fuse is also MIA because it's so boring winning when there's no competition lol, All thats left are the kittens coat tail riders who are still excited to win; but soon enough they'll also learn shallow uncompetitive EQ is boring as shit. May as well play on a GM server and #summonitem your own BIS. Good luck to them but currently it's one guild holding the entire server hostage; and it's their right and perogative to do so because the rules favor and force that guild to exist like that.
It's CSR's creation alone. Hundreds of players would return if the servers had rules that attracted players. Merging the servers halves the amount of mobs per person available across both servers; while forcing everyone not in the dominant guild to quit. As seen on blue, as seen on green already. I'm sorry but your problem isn't 'they will come, it's built'; but rather 'build it and they will come'.. Where's Ray Kinsella to mow down his corn field when you need him.
Amen
Solist
06-24-2025, 02:09 AM
Everquest is not about boring ass raids and there is no such thing as competitive raiding without PvP or other mechanisms to reward actual player skill and teamwork. Racing for FTE's is not real skill and the game inherently rewards zergs, because there is no mechanism to prevent it, and it inherently rewards low level gameplay, as the NPC's are too brainless to go attack the priority targets (which is the mere starting layer of higher level gameplay).
Ok let's just assume you've never done anything on blue competitive, and break down a little bit.
Why I'm engaging with DSMlite I don't know, but here goes.
without PvP or other mechanisms to reward actual player skill and teamwork
Competitive raiding on blue IS player vs player. It is who is better prepared, who is better prepared on the aggregate, who has the highest standards. Actual red PVP in everquest is horrible, and never scaled well with content past classic. In velious it's simply untenable. But you beat your fellow player by being a better organised package.
You do this by mobilising faster, being able to engage faster with less people, being able to sustain longer without optimal class and numerical composition, and being able to pivot from one strategy to another quickly with no explanation needed.
Changing from a pet pull to a mage bomb to a DA toggle to a backtag all in the same 30 second period, and all 5 or 6 of the moving parts all play their part perfectly is what made Vanquish stomp everyone. And there is no barrier to entry to that, thats the beauty of blue raiding. Aside from a couple of bots that are easy to level there is zero barrier to entry. Every guild can practice, train, and execute.
You know all the 'strategies' people use to clear out all the npc's curently aren't like...'just the way' you do it, but they're eroded versions of pretty finessed methods developed during the competitive eras. You think we just did non kos low hp trainups in VP for the lols? It was a forced evolution from kos low hp trainups which evolved from full hp trainups which evolved from multiple people throwing bodies at it trainups which evolved from the no rules eras of moving raids around the zone and trying to kill the opposing raid etc.
People don't kite 6 vulak guards for fun; they do it because you need 6 people pumping more than MT aggro into a mob with linked aggro. It evolved from doing 4-3-2-1 drake engages, which evolved from drake clearing while trying to bump slow vulak+friends and engage 1-2-3-4 mobs at once, which evolved from non linked trainaways, which evolved from backtagging vulak solo unlinked when unrooted. Everything we do, on every single mob on blue/green has a lineage of optimisation. And for some of them several additional levels of optimisation still to come if the competitive edge ever requires it.
Racing for FTE's is not real skill and the game
You've never raced for content have you. Never had a game folder specific to racing, made characters specific to racing, broken down every possible controllable variable to optimise; then done quite literal thousands of practice runs.
I hate that shit too. But to say it took no skill is laughably ignorant. We'd spend 10hours straight practicing the same lines. I love chaotic VP runs with SOW speed. Kael racing is the worst and needs a good looking at.
Then stunningly decided despite being fastest of everyone, to then also likely cheat. He is/was genuinely the quickest dude on the server without scripting a thing. It's a shame, if (I think so) he cheated.
game inherently rewards zergs, because there is no mechanism to prevent it
Change the rules. The rules did not favor zergs for years. Then we changed the rules.
Then we changed the mechanics rooting dragons and leashing some.
Then we changed the mechanics again linking aggro.
Make rules that favor the individual input, not the size of the guild; and add a component of equalising the field to it.
My suggestion is:
Racing from specific points, using only sow speed, using only 200 range insta clicks only, only 1 DA, ban selos and ban ranged attack. That levels the playing field massively. Add an hour lockout. Add a 10min cooldown from TOD before you can earn another lockout. Job done. Bunch of 20-40 man guilds will be having a great time, while 50-100man guilds will also get more than their share of mobs still.
Too many races currently favor massive zergs as they dont reward the race win without a massive roster so the balance of probability is of 2-3 7k tanks, and 20 clerics logging in to stabilise anything, along with 5 quads to train away anything needed.
Lockouts really open up a lot of zones, and more casual strategy. It removes so many barriers, removes a lot of the week to week logistical load, and cuts down massively on consumable use. Some fights in Project Lightning I would use 14-15 wort pots, 9 clicks of each, tanking something waiting on appropriate heal chains. This isn't uncommon or special; its just the dumb shit you have to do to endure instant engages like a Doze. Instead that can be one thin bone wand click, and zero consumables, with 40+mins to set up, kill a couple of wurms and 2 mobs, control an engage nice and steadily etc. Full casual dad spec raiding is awesome when you have lockouts.
as the NPC's are too brainless to go attack the priority targets
If you don't find it rewarding to kill npc's in everquest, you're not challenging yourself by doing it with low enough numbers.
But I agree with you. EQ isn't about the mobs or the gear, it's about the people you play with and the player vs player you get to compete in. The most balanced PVP in EQ is the blue servers in that regard. Killing mobs in the game uncontested is the most boring game you can imagine. When it's competitive engages in the giant sized guilds all the playmakers pretty much AFK once the mob is stable. Noone is interested in killing Vulak #97. We're all interested in ways to compete to secure that mob though.
higher level gameplay
It seems to me you havn't taken part in even mid level gameplay uncontested on these servers except for draft mobs, and thats ok. You've maybe wasted your time on these servers when there was such excellent non competitive options.
The real issue on blue and green is the CSR are also like you, inexperienced, unknowledgeable, not technically minded, not inquisitive, and have always been 'have nots' and think the big bad guys raiding competitively were somehow this elitist club of shitheads. Every guild was just normal folks asked to partake in a few hoop jumping exercises to get prepared, and to try not to stand in the wrong spot too often. EQ isn't hard. The servers thrived when competition was easy to access, fair for the individual, and did not reward being the largest zerg exclusively; only rewarded it ratiometrically to their size.
Solist
06-24-2025, 02:20 AM
I should add, there's lots of solutions to the problem.
If we have to have raid rules (which I think are stupid anyway), lockouts seems to be the best way to do it. Lockouts reward massive guilds who can kill fast. Lockouts reward small guilds who don't need the infrastructure and roster to support live engages.
Lockouts are rife for being stupidly optimised by autists however. So removing as much of the bullshit as possible like illusion swaps, windstriker cheese, slowing people down so they're susceptible to npc's in VP. Lockouts were never perfect, but they could be as close to perfect as we've ever seen.
I'd even add that lockout racing that races only ever start every 6 minutes. So you have 5min59sec to get logged in, sow, prepared on a toon to watch 30 elves all yeeting at whatever random mob. That would be gold. Make it super casual friendly for the most casual dad spec EQ to still get lucky.
Ennewi
06-24-2025, 02:50 AM
Then you should push the CSR to make the server rules bring players back.
Rule changes would help to some extent, for a while, but ideally more substantial facelifts that revitalize the game would improve the top end on blue and still maintain the spirit of classic. Outdoor raid targets spawning at random locs. Indoor dragons having a chance to spawn rooted or unrooted, until a better solution is able to be implemented. The list goes on, but requires work that no one proposing solutions actually does TMK.
The playing environment is what brings players and keeps them.
Easy to assume, hard to prove. Each player derives their own enjoyment out of the game, from EC tunnel auctions of old to solo artist challengers and so on. If it was just the playing environment that was the answer, very few players would touch raiding on p99; bis isn't worth it for how much bs there's been to deal with.
This whole 'draft' giveaway crap drives more and more people away....they only play during the drafts and otherwise it's a ghost town.
Cheating and lack of meaningful punishments drove numerous players away that I knew. They moved on to other games altogether and don't even show up for the draft.
Giving people mobs doesnt make them want to play. Giving them the opportunity to win mobs fairly does.
Unfair advantages make people not want to play because they realize they have no opportunity to win, unless they also cheat.
Most of Fuse is also MIA because it's so boring winning when there's no competition lol
Easy to assume, hard to prove given a number of factors, including fewer quakes.
All thats left are the kittens coat tail riders who are still excited to win; but soon enough they'll also learn shallow uncompetitive EQ is boring as shit.
As an unabashed coat tail rider, I'm away due to RL aggro. That said, I don't care much about loot or winning, but actually miss the player characters, along with the world itself; it will outlast all of us. The one deterrent that exists with such a dominant force is merely the potential for lag/desyncing. I'll take that negative over the illusion of competing in a virtual museum that's slowly turned into a nerd retirement home.
May as well play on a GM server and #summonitem your own BIS.
It's less hyperbolic to say, "If wanting competition, may as well play on red or in a game designed for PVP." But, again, cheating has been the easiest way to #summonitem your own BIS. You can't lament about them damn welfare pixels and not so much as even mention how cheating undermines immersion and the playing environment.
currently it's one guild holding the entire server hostage; and it's their right and perogative to do so because the rules favor and force that guild to exist like that.
This was the case pre-Velious and pre-green server. It's just more in-your-face now because the server has been around longer, with more pixel glut and bot armies.
kjs86z2
06-24-2025, 09:30 AM
Then you should push the CSR to make the server rules bring players back.
Hundreds of us want to play on blue again. But the current rules simply do not allow it to happen. The writing has been on the wall for years, every guild told CSR what a disaster rooting dragons would be. What a disaster linking guard aggro is. What a disaster removing lockouts was (and the reasons for doing it are gone).
Your CSR are the problem. More players with a merger just means more players would leave, not stay. Merging 300 and 600 people together makes a 600 person server, not a 900.
Thats because the current rules and mechanics do not allow fair competition where you can win mobs with 20-25 people in small guilds, win even more mobs with 30-50 people in bigger guilds, and win even more mobs with 70-80 people in massive zergs. Right now it's 170 person guild wins everything, noone competes, noone even logs in.
You need a roster of 500 people with 300 of them 'active', with 100 of them reliable to be able to compete. Considering both servers are rapidly declining in players; it is what it is. Once Castle gets a few more dunks green will be just as shit as blue.
The playing environment is what brings players and keeps them. Make an environment that doesn't make attempting to compete futile and people do. We've seen it in the past. This whole 'draft' giveaway crap drives more and more people away....they only play during the drafts and otherwise it's a ghost town.
Giving people mobs doesnt make them want to play. Giving them the opportunity to win mobs fairly does. Most of Fuse is also MIA because it's so boring winning when there's no competition lol, All thats left are the kittens coat tail riders who are still excited to win; but soon enough they'll also learn shallow uncompetitive EQ is boring as shit. May as well play on a GM server and #summonitem your own BIS. Good luck to them but currently it's one guild holding the entire server hostage; and it's their right and perogative to do so because the rules favor and force that guild to exist like that.
It's CSR's creation alone. Hundreds of players would return if the servers had rules that attracted players. Merging the servers halves the amount of mobs per person available across both servers; while forcing everyone not in the dominant guild to quit. As seen on blue, as seen on green already. I'm sorry but your problem isn't 'they will come, it's built'; but rather 'build it and they will come'.. Where's Ray Kinsella to mow down his corn field when you need him.
This 100%.
Also lol @ kittens players - that Fuse merge was like when Freedom absorbed the wall-lickers from AG except now theres no competition
zelld52
06-24-2025, 09:43 AM
Break up the zerg armies. Castle is definitely a zerg on Green but they fuckin suck lol so they dont win as much as a raid force with 140 people should
kjs86z2
06-24-2025, 10:14 AM
Solist for CSR.
The dawn of a new Sirken...without the titties for timers.
cd288
06-24-2025, 10:39 AM
Then you should push the CSR to make the server rules bring players back.
Hundreds of us want to play on blue again. But the current rules simply do not allow it to happen. The writing has been on the wall for years, every guild told CSR what a disaster rooting dragons would be. What a disaster linking guard aggro is. What a disaster removing lockouts was (and the reasons for doing it are gone).
Your CSR are the problem. More players with a merger just means more players would leave, not stay. Merging 300 and 600 people together makes a 600 person server, not a 900.
Thats because the current rules and mechanics do not allow fair competition where you can win mobs with 20-25 people in small guilds, win even more mobs with 30-50 people in bigger guilds, and win even more mobs with 70-80 people in massive zergs. Right now it's 170 person guild wins everything, noone competes, noone even logs in.
You need a roster of 500 people with 300 of them 'active', with 100 of them reliable to be able to compete. Considering both servers are rapidly declining in players; it is what it is. Once Castle gets a few more dunks green will be just as shit as blue.
The playing environment is what brings players and keeps them. Make an environment that doesn't make attempting to compete futile and people do. We've seen it in the past. This whole 'draft' giveaway crap drives more and more people away....they only play during the drafts and otherwise it's a ghost town.
Giving people mobs doesnt make them want to play. Giving them the opportunity to win mobs fairly does. Most of Fuse is also MIA because it's so boring winning when there's no competition lol, All thats left are the kittens coat tail riders who are still excited to win; but soon enough they'll also learn shallow uncompetitive EQ is boring as shit. May as well play on a GM server and #summonitem your own BIS. Good luck to them but currently it's one guild holding the entire server hostage; and it's their right and perogative to do so because the rules favor and force that guild to exist like that.
It's CSR's creation alone. Hundreds of players would return if the servers had rules that attracted players. Merging the servers halves the amount of mobs per person available across both servers; while forcing everyone not in the dominant guild to quit. As seen on blue, as seen on green already. I'm sorry but your problem isn't 'they will come, it's built'; but rather 'build it and they will come'.. Where's Ray Kinsella to mow down his corn field when you need him.
The pop isn't down because of a small number of no life neckbeards who are upset about raiding rules. The vast majority of people don't care nearly as much as you do to come and write a multi-paragraph rant (multiple times in the same thread, no less) about it. Pop is down simply because the servers are locked into the end of their timeline. There's only so many times you're going to sit there doing end of Velious raids over and over, vendoring decent loot because it's easier than waiting a month to find a buyer, if you have any drive left to level an alt having to solo the vast majority of the time, etc.
People enjoy rolling fresh on a new and crowded server that brings back the nostalgia of 1999 when servers were full of people/life. If you rolled a new Green there would be 2k people on it at launch...people aren't going to go "no I'm not going to roll on a fresh version of the only classic EQ server that exists because CSR rooted the dragons".
loramin
06-24-2025, 10:43 AM
did they add the pet window back in yet or is green still unplayable
Green has the pet window.
Zuranthium
06-24-2025, 12:01 PM
Competitive raiding on blue IS player vs player. It is who is better prepared. You do this by mobilising faster
That is not real skill, and that isn't Player vs Player. It doesn't show who is better in battle at fighting.
Changing from a pet pull to a mage bomb to a DA toggle to a backtag all in the same 30 second period, and all 5 or 6 of the moving parts all play their part perfectly is what made Vanquish stomp everyone.
People don't kite 6 vulak guards for fun
Mechanics like that are simply abuses of dumb NPC behavior. It's nothing compared to a game where the NPCs would spawn unpredictably, go attack your casters, and switch targets in a much more intelligent way than the current aggro system. Not to mention if the game had complex combat mechanics, which required players to interact every second with what skills the opponent is using, and to time skills with allies and understand how to manage resources and ever-changing positioning in a fight.
But to say it took no skill is laughably ignorant. We'd spend 10hours straight practicing the same lines.
That is not high level skill, and it is certainly not any kind of INTERESTING skill. That is simply busywork and mapping out pre-determined NPC behavior.
EQ isn't about the mobs or the gear
Of course it is, to a large extent. When your melee have weapons that do 2x as much damage and armor that prevents more damage, when your casters have more regen and much larger mana pools, and when everyone has important clickies, your raid force inarguably is able to do more, or with less amount of people, than they otherwise would be able to. It's very dumb that you act like it doesn't matter.
Actual red PVP in everquest is horrible
It's far better than PvE, regardless of the flaws. PVP introduces constant danger and more variables, and things that can attack you in more sophisticated ways than a mere NPC, which makes the game world more dynamic and requires more active gameplay and higher intelligence of gameplay.
The real issue on blue and green is the CSR are also like you, inexperienced, unknowledgeable, not technically minded, not inquisitive
There are certainly admin issues, but you are the person who is inexperienced and unknowledgeable about competitive gaming and what would make an actual good version of EQ.
If you think PvE EQ raiding with the existing code is interesting, it shows you've been doing very little in your life besides repetitive EQ emu's, and pathetically think you've developed some kind of meaningful ability or have achieved something relevant. You haven't.
It also shows you don't give a shit about actual MMORPG's, since raiding is merely one aspect of what the game is supposed to be, and the raiding you are talking about is extremely artificial and breaks the feeling of being in an immersive high-fantasy world.
DeathsSilkyMist
06-24-2025, 12:03 PM
Green has the pet window.
Blue has the pet window too, if you have the titanium UI at least.
Solist
06-24-2025, 07:00 PM
DSMlite Drivel
This is an everquest emulator, it emulates everquest. We're discussing everquest.
If you wan't to talk about other games, let's go do it. But this thread is about two servers that are EQ related.
Thanks for your non everquest related input and comparisons.
I bet you get invited to a lot of parties.
Allishia
06-24-2025, 07:29 PM
They should merge both servers and have rotating hot zones /nod
Zuranthium
06-24-2025, 09:18 PM
This is an everquest emulator, it emulates everquest. We're discussing everquest.
Indeed, and you show little-to-no comprehension of what EQ is supposed to be. The type of raiding you talk about is NEVER what existed in classic Everquest, nor what the designers ever wanted for the game, nor something that is skillful or interesting for an actual competitive gamer or RPG player. And ofc you continue to ignore the takedowns of all the other dumb rhetoric you tried to push, and fact that PvP creates greater depth of gameplay.
"Competitive raiding" didn't even exist during classic EQ on PvE servers, except in the form of global firsts for killing specific NPC's or getting certain items, which is completely irrelevant now. There was often only 1 guild per server that was capable of doing the top content, and the Play-Nice-Policy dictated rotations between guilds for any contested content (and before the PnP it was DPS racing that determined everything, but it was rare for two guilds with enough of a force to be in the same place at the same time).
If we are talking classic EQ coding/rules only, instead of the best ways to improve the game while maintaining the spirit of what EQ is supposed to be, then the discussion is only about which of these 2 options the raid scene should have: DPS racing or rotations. Nothing else is classic, and my vote is definitely for DPS racing, because that makes the game world more alive.
>nor what the designers ever wanted for the game
the designers didn't have a unified vision, and the one they had is nothing like the game we ended up with.
this is well fucking documented, their ideas basically got veto'd by the alpha/beta/early players, necessity, compromise and the game's success
EQ as we know it can literally be more attributed to the people in the guide to dev pipeline who were kids addicted to raiding at the time than the original design doc presented to smed
Brad wanted the epic quest to be a fucking scavenger hunt with riddles that would be easily spoiled via a web forum, and Clover or Trost i forget which couldn't even comprehend players pathetic enough to actually want to camp rare loot sitting at a spawn instead of playing the game for what it was with their background in dungeons and dragons.
Viscere
06-25-2025, 04:28 AM
just merge tbh
Jimjam
06-25-2025, 04:35 AM
It's the same server, has been for a while. Just has some odd artificial divide running through.
WarpathEQ
06-25-2025, 10:47 AM
Indeed, and you show little-to-no comprehension of what EQ is supposed to be. The type of raiding you talk about is NEVER what existed in classic Everquest, nor what the designers ever wanted for the game, nor something that is skillful or interesting for an actual competitive gamer or RPG player. And ofc you continue to ignore the takedowns of all the other dumb rhetoric you tried to push, and fact that PvP creates greater depth of gameplay.
"Competitive raiding" didn't even exist during classic EQ on PvE servers, except in the form of global firsts for killing specific NPC's or getting certain items, which is completely irrelevant now. There was often only 1 guild per server that was capable of doing the top content, and the Play-Nice-Policy dictated rotations between guilds for any contested content (and before the PnP it was DPS racing that determined everything, but it was rare for two guilds with enough of a force to be in the same place at the same time).
If we are talking classic EQ coding/rules only, instead of the best ways to improve the game while maintaining the spirit of what EQ is supposed to be, then the discussion is only about which of these 2 options the raid scene should have: DPS racing or rotations. Nothing else is classic, and my vote is definitely for DPS racing, because that makes the game world more alive.
I never once encountered mob/loot rotations during this era on live. Everything was always based on FTE and the mobs went to the raid force that could, organize, engage, and kill the mob first on my server. Certainly there was a hirearchy, no different than how they form on P99 where generally one guild becomes the strongest/most capable/most successful/most geared and other guilds lag behind but continue to compete to get their wins where they can.
Just like we see here the top guild was focused on the most recent end game top mobs (i.e. vulak, KT, Doze), the next most competitive guild was fighting for content in the same most recent expansion, then there would be guilds doing the top content from the prior expansion (in this case kunark, getting their trak kills, VP keys, ect that the top guild is no longer gate keeping after moving onto velious) and then multiple expansions ago the scraps would go to the casuals (i.e. naggy/vox/phinny).
zelld52
06-25-2025, 11:05 AM
>nor what the designers ever wanted for the game
the designers didn't have a unified vision, and the one they had is nothing like the game we ended up with.
this is well fucking documented, their ideas basically got veto'd by the alpha/beta/early players, necessity, compromise and the game's success
EQ as we know it can literally be more attributed to the people in the guide to dev pipeline who were kids addicted to raiding at the time than the original design doc presented to smed
Brad wanted the epic quest to be a fucking scavenger hunt with riddles that would be easily spoiled via a web forum, and Clover or Trost i forget which couldn't even comprehend players pathetic enough to actually want to camp rare loot sitting at a spawn instead of playing the game for what it was with their background in dungeons and dragons.
one of the original devs wanted the game to be PVP focused, as well. (cant remember their name) but theres an interview with aLovingRobot where he describes his vision of EQ PVP and classes having different benefits based on their specific abilities. he uses the example of an enchanter using minor illusion to turn into a wall-sconce to avoid PVP attackers
zelld52
06-25-2025, 11:07 AM
I never once encountered mob/loot rotations during this era on live. Everything was always based on FTE and the mobs went to the raid force that could, organize, engage, and kill the mob first on my server. Certainly there was a hirearchy, no different than how they form on P99 where generally one guild becomes the strongest/most capable/most successful/most geared and other guilds lag behind but continue to compete to get their wins where they can.
Just like we see here the top guild was focused on the most recent end game top mobs (i.e. vulak, KT, Doze), the next most competitive guild was fighting for content in the same most recent expansion, then there would be guilds doing the top content from the prior expansion (in this case kunark, getting their trak kills, VP keys, ect that the top guild is no longer gate keeping after moving onto velious) and then multiple expansions ago the scraps would go to the casuals (i.e. naggy/vox/phinny).
did you play on a super secret server that only elite players played on? there were no FTE races on any of the live servers i played on in Velious era.
Sleeper wasnt awoken until Luclin on most servers. AoW first kill was in Luclin. people didnt even know about Dozekar quests until near 2002. Scout roll was even a mystery until late 2001.
Jimjam
06-25-2025, 12:00 PM
Imo undiscovered / unconquered content from SoL release onward shouldn’t even be on p99.
Ennewi
06-25-2025, 12:09 PM
AoW first kill was in Luclin.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135290
Old 01-14-2014, 01:26 PM
Byrjun Byrjun is offline
Planar Protector
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,132
AoW was killed twice mid-to-late Velious by the joint forces of Legacy of Steel and Shock of Swords on the Nameless. This was accomplished by charming "Frozen Moses" aka Fjokar Frozenshard.
It was later nerfed, but they killed AoW one more time 100% legitimately just before Luclin released.
...
__________________
Blue: Byrjun Thorsson
Green: Wizurg
people didnt even know about Dozekar quests until near 2002.
https://web.archive.org/web/20020105070620/http://pub6.ezboard.com/ftherathetravelagencyfrm11.showMessage?topicID=116 .topic
Datalore
Tindi'Losi
Posts: 38
(9/11/01 1:02:01 am)
Community Supporter
Giant / Dragon faction and Dozekar
The reason for this post is to ask nicely for giant aligned guilds not to interfere with Dozekar the Cursed, a mob that is useful only to dragon aligned guilds. I will explain my points as reasonably and politely as I can and I hope those interested in the matter will do so as well.
Guilds on giant faction have about 20 dragon- or king- level mobs they can hunt in Velious without hurting their faction (NTOV dragons plus Yelinak, Sontalak, Zlandicar, Klandicar, Lend, Telk, Gozz, Dain, Wuoshi, Kelorek'Dar), while guilds on dragon faction have about 5. Not to mention that 3 out of 5 mobs available to dragon guilds are in Kael, and are often killed by giant aligned guilds who have no difficulty with faction, since their faction comes back without effort in the normal course of camping armor in TOV.
Dozekar the Cursed is the one mob that gives a reason to dragon aligned guilds to hold on to their faction. He is a seven day spawn that drops only tears, that are used in quests for folks who are allies to Claws of Veeshan. The rewards are nice, almost on par with North TOV items, but the quests are a royal pain in the ass to complete: you typically need 1-2 tears and 2-3 symbols for each quest. We've killed Dozekar 4 times so far, and killed the named drakes for their symbols a dozen or so times, and we still haven't got the right set of quest items to complete a single quest. NB has also been killing Dozekar for a while now, and to my knowledge they have completed 1 quest. The reason for the very bad yield is that there are tons of different tears and symbols, all no drop, so it takes time and luck to build a collection that will eventually start yielding items.
Given the clear advantage giant aligned guilds (e.g. BOTS, SOT, RF) have in the number of high level mobs they can hunt, and the huge time investment necessary to get loot out of the TOV quests that involve killing Dozekar, I would respectfully ask our friends who have chosen giant faction to leave Dozekar for the dragon aligned guilds (e.g. NB, TL, KIC). Surely there is enough content in the game for everyone, without the need to step all over each other's toes?
Datalore
zelld52
06-25-2025, 12:52 PM
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135290
https://web.archive.org/web/20020105070620/http://pub6.ezboard.com/ftherathetravelagencyfrm11.showMessage?topicID=116 .topic
So this proof of a single guild killing Dozekar up to 4 times, 3 months before Luclin release is proof that Dozekar was instant FTE engage across all servers?
Same with AoW. AoW was not killed every 7 days like clockwork.
Neither of these prove the existence of FTE races in Velious era in 2001.
Ennewi
06-25-2025, 01:11 PM
So this proof of a single guild killing Dozekar up to 4 times, 3 months before Luclin release is proof that Dozekar was instant FTE engage across all servers?
Same with AoW. AoW was not killed every 7 days like clockwork.
Neither of these prove the existence of FTE races in Velious era in 2001.
That guild mentions another raid guild actively killing doze and even completing at least one of the quests. But it actually shows one case where guilds were cooperating, or attempting to, in order to play the game at raid level.
But my post was separate from the larger argument here and only served as a means of fact-checking. The claim was that the first AoW kill happened out of era and that doze quests weren't known about until late Velious. Both of these claims are not accurate.
zelld52
06-25-2025, 01:21 PM
That guild mentions another raid guild actively killing doze and even completing at least one of the quests. But it actually shows one case where guilds were cooperating, or attempting to, in order to play the game at raid level.
But my post was separate from the larger argument here and only served as a means of fact-checking. The claim was that the first AoW kill happened out of era and that doze quests weren't known about until late Velious. Both of these claims are not accurate.
i appreciate your fact checking, but i mentioned that on most of the servers this was the case. cant think of many people who raided in era velious that were regularly killing Doze, or even KT and Dain. they used to sit up for days before a raid happened.
Danth
06-25-2025, 01:28 PM
Lot more competition in the private server scene than there was in the 20-teens. P99 has a hard time competing because it maintains, fairly or not, a strong reputation for having a GM staff and ruleset that favors the high-hours players over regular folks.....so a huge portion of those regular folks pick other servers nowadays.
Codebase deterioration doesn't help any. P99 felt less buggy in 2017 than it does today. Stuff that used to work fine but got broke, like Z axis pathing, remains broken years later, giving an impression that the admins don't care anymore. The admins themselves encourage this impression by barely communicating and giving the appearance of having "checked out." Not many players want to start in such conditions.
Blue appears to be in a death-spiral where the in-game economy has fallen below functional critical mass, making it defacto virtually impossible for people to buy/sell goods in any kind of reasonable manner, totally suffocating off a supply of newbies and leaving the server population to wither. Green appears to be a little better in this regard, still with a functional in-game economy, and still attracting some small amount of newbies, not a lot, but some.
Viscere
06-25-2025, 02:13 PM
1. Visceral and co
rent free etc
cd288
06-25-2025, 04:04 PM
That guild mentions another raid guild actively killing doze and even completing at least one of the quests. But it actually shows one case where guilds were cooperating, or attempting to, in order to play the game at raid level.
But my post was separate from the larger argument here and only served as a means of fact-checking. The claim was that the first AoW kill happened out of era and that doze quests weren't known about until late Velious. Both of these claims are not accurate.
I think this supports Zell's broader argument given the timestamps on the evidence you submitted.
E.g., sure, the first solo guild non-nerfed AoW kill was pre-Luclin not after Luclin. But it was just before Luclin. Which supports the argument that there weren't multiple guilds trying to FTE high end raid targets in the Velious era, because there simply weren't multiple guilds capable of competing for it.
I mean, shit, people forget that one of the reasons you've had multiple guilds competing on P99 is that the accounts are free and every guild has a lot of CH Cleric, COTH, etc. bots at the ready. When accounts are free and you can have an army of Clerics parked at raid targets and ready to be logged in, it greatly increases the viability of a guild to be able to compete on a target. Back then, you didn't have this to nearly the degree you do now.
Solist
06-25-2025, 05:21 PM
rent free etc
How's TMO?
Ennewi
06-25-2025, 05:35 PM
I think this supports Zell's broader argument given the timestamps on the evidence you submitted.
E.g., sure, the first solo guild non-nerfed AoW kill was pre-Luclin not after Luclin. But it was just before Luclin. Which supports the argument that there weren't multiple guilds trying to FTE high end raid targets in the Velious era, because there simply weren't multiple guilds capable of competing for it.
For sure. The copy/paste info had to do with the mundane details rather than the larger argument, to cover all bases in terms of what was achieved then and should be available now. Certain aspects of gameplay p99 have been hemmed in or neutered outright because "it wasn't done regularly in classic" or "possible with dial-up" which seems antithetical to the spirit of the game and feel of the world. AoW was killed, Tuna was killed, etc. So credit to those early raid guilds.
But yeah, the doze copy/paste shows an interest in separately factioned guilds working around each other or at least coming to an agreement about who got what. From other reading on wayback, OG guilds were typically cooperative rather than competitive. If not setting up rotations, actually calling dibs on zones like Plane of Fear in forum posts; a wipe meant the next guild zoned in and took a stab at it, rezzing the previous raid. Very little of what I've read from back then could be described as competitive and none of it to the esport levels that have existed on here.
Solist
06-25-2025, 05:40 PM
So this proof of a single guild killing Dozekar up to 4 times, 3 months before Luclin release is proof that Dozekar was instant FTE engage across all servers?
Same with AoW. AoW was not killed every 7 days like clockwork.
Neither of these prove the existence of FTE races in Velious era in 2001.
What is the point you are trying to make? You're arguing against facts, and when presented with those facts that counter your previous argument you now change the argument.
We raced for mobs on live, albeit in luclin. But there was quite literal guild mobilisation races through Ssra come raid time. Faking out other rogues saying traps were down to get their members cursed. It was complete chaos.
Early morning the US guilds would be online trying to stop the korean guild from wiping everything out that spawned post patch.
And everything that could reasonably be killed, like clockwork, was killed. Not AoW, as noone could kill that except maybe 2 guilds worldwide. Anyway.
All of that doesn't matter though. This is P99. It emulates (mostly) EQ. It isn't meant to emulate the terrible play that existed back in the day. It's such a dogshit argument to try and compare what we did/didn't do then to now. Even the early few years of P99 were laughably terrible compared to the coordination that exists right now.
And if you don't think that, you're not participating, or not paying attention, or completely oblivious to the way P99 does things. And it's wonderful; competition between guilds spurned on cleaver and unique engages. Imagine if P99 was still 30 people sitting around waiting for full buffs, a procession around a buff circle, camping arbitrarily to chat, it would be a horrible experience.
Arguing over who did what on live, when we've got some massively unclassic changes here, the server can support an order of magnitude more activity, we have better netcode, all NPC's are tuned to be twice as hard as they shuld be on average, resists just.....dont work here, etc etc etc is silly.
None of this has anything to do with why a merger with current rules is a terrible idea.
The existing rules are suffocating both servers. Merging them just halves the content available and accelerates the decline.
Fix the rules first. Breathe some life in. Bring some players back. Even without dev support it can be fixed if the absolute pelicans that are current CSR would look at times the server was healthy, and times it was not. Their current metric is "no petitions, server healthy"..... of course there's no petitions, there's only 1 guild, and there is 1/5th the population there used to be.
Zuranthium
06-25-2025, 08:54 PM
the designers didn't have a unified vision, and the one they had is nothing like the game we ended up with.
EQ as we know it can literally be more attributed to the people in the guide to dev pipeline who were kids addicted to raiding at the time than the original design doc presented to smed
Wrong. It wasn't until Luclin era that those people you talk about were handling the game. They, and raids, didn't even exist when the game was being released.
The original designers very much had a shared vision of creating an interactive fantasy novel come to life, a 3D dungeons and dragons game with thousands of players, a realistic MUD. And that is indeed how the game played in 1999.
There were of course some disagreements about specifics, but that doesn't change the overarching goal of what was trying to be created. And it's important to consider how the game should be shaped in order to keep that vision alive. There are tons of things the designers would have changed if they knew the ways the game would eventually devolve, and if they had the technical capability and creative solutions to fix those problems and allow EQ to be the living RPG experience it was meant to be.
I never once encountered mob rotations during this era on live.
Then you never interacted with the Play Nice Policy. That was how everything in game was handled after they stopped allowing DPS to decide everything.
We raced for mobs on live, albeit in luclin. But there was quite literal guild mobilisation races through Ssra come raid time. Faking out other rogues saying traps were down to get their members cursed. It was complete chaos.
Early morning the US guilds would be online trying to stop the korean guild from wiping everything out that spawned post patch.
That is not FTE racing, and not classic era either. That's trying to kill content before other guilds are there after repop.
Whenever two raid forces were at the same spawn at the same time, GM's made them start rotating, unless they wanted to agree to roll for it every time.
And US guilds didn't have the majority of their players online during a typical weekday morning. People were at work (and on weekends often had other commitments), this is well documented by Legacy of Steel.
And everything that could reasonably be killed, like clockwork, was killed.
Nope. Raid targets were frequently up for many hours before being engaged, this is extensively documented. Not just the top end Velious targets either. Things like Vox were being left up for considerable amounts of time during that era.
This is P99. It emulates (mostly) EQ. It isn't meant to emulate the terrible play that existed back in the day. It's such a dogshit argument to try and compare what we did/didn't do then to now.
Classic developer decisions were based on how people played at the time. You're clueless or in denial if you think those devs would look at the way people play now and say "yep, that's definitely what we want the game to be." They were suspending guilds in classic just for using wall tricks.
Wrong.
no u? the devs literally talked about it in their Arobot w/e that dude from M&M name is interview series.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Viscere
06-26-2025, 06:03 AM
MNM just seems to be doing its own thing, while straying true to how MUD/EQ felt when playing, that's something Pantheon never managed.
Also it's quite hilarious to think ''Visionary Realms'' raised over 10M$+ to crash in flames while MNM is basically all volunteers working on a shoestring budget and able to deliver something seemingly much more aligned with what Classic EQ players would want.
pretty sure everyone at VR was more interested in working with tools and skills important for their next job interview in the industry than worrying about what EQ players wanted.
thing was a dumpster fire/cash grab from day one from my understanding
zelld52
06-26-2025, 08:40 AM
What is the point you are trying to make? You're arguing against facts, and when presented with those facts that counter your previous argument you now change the argument.
youre a fuckin idiot. it wasnt like the current meta where if you didnt race, you couldnt compete. only a small portion of the servers had such competition.
you. fuckin. idiot.
zelld52
06-26-2025, 08:40 AM
btw didnt read the rest of your shitpost, because i knew you were a moron after that first sentence, again you massive dingbat
cd288
06-26-2025, 10:25 AM
VR is in a better state than you think
Anyway, back to the raiding convo, what people should remember when talking about their experience on their server, is that experiences on servers varied pretty significantly in the Classic era and even in Luclin. Especially when it came to things like raiding and whether there were other guilds able to compete significantly. Hugely variable there.
everyone was on the same server during Beta, and Fennin is the canon server
if you weren't on either, you should prolly just shut the fuck up
Zuranthium
06-26-2025, 03:24 PM
the devs literally talked about it in their Arobot w/e that dude from M&M name is interview series
Talked about what? Certainly not anything you're trying to say. Shawn didn't have any creative input on the game until Luclin, exactly as I said.
JayDee
06-26-2025, 04:00 PM
I know there are some roadblocks to merging like character slots and duplicate names but we need a merge. Why fragment a small player base when theyre identical servers in terms of timeline?
And blue is completely dead. Don't even think you can call it an mmo
Talked about what? Certainly not anything you're trying to say. Shawn didn't have any creative input on the game until Luclin, exactly as I said.
i'm talking about Bill Fisher and the guides/players/raiders vs the original old heads creative direction
a argument that started prior/in beta and influenced kunark and velious, not cats on the moon that you guys keep bringing up for some reason lol
people were already leaving for Anarchy Online and other games before luclin, nobody gives a shit about luclin
hope this helps.
cd288
06-26-2025, 04:10 PM
everyone was on the same server during Beta, and Fennin is the canon server
if you weren't on either, you should prolly just shut the fuck up
What does beta have to do with Velious era raiding?
Also, I think you forgot that you're not in RNF. It happens sometimes, especially if you're posting in a lot of threads, but we don't need that type of language/visceral interaction in the ordinary forums.
cd288
06-26-2025, 04:15 PM
I know there are some roadblocks to merging like character slots and duplicate names but we need a merge. Why fragment a small player base when theyre identical servers in terms of timeline?
And blue is completely dead. Don't even think you can call it an mmo
Nah it's not a roadblock. For duplicate names, if a name exists on Blue you can only have that name on Green if you create the character from literally the same account that the character with said name on Blue is on. The staff already said (as early as Green launch) that they will add an "x" at the end of the Green char's name when the merge occurs. This is exactly what happened on live if you wanted to transfer your character to another server and your name was taken. Super easy.
For character slots, the staff warned people very clearly pre-launch that if you use the same account as you did for your characters on Blue, and you create more characters on Green such that the aggregate would be over 8, then you won't be able to utilize some characters when the merge occurs without deleting some. This was very clearly detailed and stated that there's nothing the staff can do about it (Titanium client issue) and if you don't heed the warning that's your choice. It's not an impediment to merge.
The only impediment is just the staff feeling like they want to use their unpaid free time to put in all the work. Eventually I feel like they will, but whether that's this year or a couple years from now is anybody's guess. I'm inclined to think it's more toward the former since they've recently been putting out patches that fix things much earlier in the timeline than Blue/Green are at currently.
Jimjam
06-26-2025, 04:23 PM
I know there are some roadblocks to merging like character slots and duplicate names but we need a merge. Why fragment a small player base when theyre identical servers in terms of timeline?
And blue is completely dead. Don't even think you can call it an mmo
Blue has overtaken red as my preferred place for unsociable play
Zuranthium
06-26-2025, 06:07 PM
i'm talking about Bill Fisher and the guides/players/raiders vs the original old heads creative direction.
a argument that started prior/in beta and influenced kunark and velious
The original creative direction is what defines the game pre-Luclin. There were no "raiders" during beta, and it's not like those kinds of fights weren't already part of the game plan. The other input mainly influenced balance/tech, not overall design.
Bill Fisher's thoughts about the game are nothing like you're trying to say. He was hired because he was Brad's friend and Brad liked his RPG creativity. He also played MUD's before EQ. And as for raiding he cared about having cool encounters and guilds actually fighting content, he wouldn't want dumbass FTE racing and exploiting dumb NPC AI to be the gameplay. He specifically tried to fix some of that where he could, and wanted more dynamic game events and spawned encounters like the Ring 10 fight.
>There were no "raiders" during beta
never said there was, the timeline from beta to velious is what i was talking about in my initial post, and what i said is literally what happened, i stopped caring about EQ at the time like 2 weeks into Kunark
velious being designed and catered for raiding with a ratio of like 95/5 with crystal caverns and whatever else making up the 5% was a design decision based on all the arguments that came before it that that i stated in my original post then you and the other dude brought up luclin for some reason in response to the original design and what we ended up with, Bill's side won and it ruined the game
hope this clears up any further confusion
Zuranthium
06-26-2025, 09:39 PM
velious being designed and catered for raiding with a ratio of like 95/5 with crystal caverns and whatever else making up the 5% was a design decision based on all the arguments that came before it that that i stated in my original post then you and the other dude brought up luclin for some reason in response to the original design and what we ended up with, Bill's side won and it ruined the game
That's not how it was designed and I don't know why you keep lumping Bill into it. Most of the Velious zones have ample amounts of group/quest content and the big thing about Velious was supposed to be the story element of different factions and picking one to side with.
And it's not about the existence of raid content, it's about how those raids were expected to be played. Nobody who worked on EQ wanted raids to be FTE racing or kite-fests or alt-fests.
how am i lumping him into it? i said the entire guide to dev pipeline, and playerbase if you bothered to read what i said
nm ive realized i'm talking to a literal insane person and anyone who cares to fact check it can do it themselves, i literally haven't mentioned FTE, kiting or alts once
moving to resolved.
Zuranthium
06-27-2025, 12:08 AM
how am i lumping him into it? i said the entire guide to dev pipeline, and playerbase
The guide to dev pipeline and playerbase didn't just care about raiding, and Bill wasn't in that pipeline. He was hired directly as a designer and he cared a lot about worldbuilding.
anyone who cares to fact check it can do it themselves
You entered this thread by saying the original devs didn't have a vision, and "classic EQ as we know it" exists because of people who were later brought on and is mostly remembered as a raiding game. Those are false statements.
If you actually listen to the interview you're trying to reference, and some others, the original devs were running the show pre-Luclin and everyone was mostly working on what was already conceptualized, filling in the specifics of the parts of the game world they were given. Velious already existed on the planned map for the EQ world in the 90's and was already supposed to be a higher level area.
Had they been given more time to work on the game, things like individualized quests and world events and NPC behavior and tradeskills and guild battles and all the details and systems would have been further developed. They were always in a rush to get content out and it's a miracle they created what they did. The game as coded is not the ideal version of what they wanted, but the concepts are pretty clear.
Danth
06-27-2025, 02:09 AM
velious being designed and catered for raiding with a ratio of like 95/5 with crystal caverns and whatever else making up the 5%
Huh? What is this? What game are you logging in to? Are you posting from some sort of raid guild echo chamber where they warehouse themselves away in Temple Veeshan and forget the rest of the game even exists? Velious had more raid content than Kunark did, but it still was far removed from being the major part of the game. It was a little sideshow used only by a small minority. Most players never even level capped. Raiding wasn't the driving focus of expansion design until Planes of Power, and probably wasn't an actual majority of included content even then.
You had Temple Veeshan, Sleeper, and Growthplane for primary raid zones in Velious expansion. Kael Drakkel has a lot of both raid and nonraid content. Iceclad, FrozenShadow, East Wastes, CrystalCaverns, Great Divide, Velketor, Thurgadin, Icewell, Wakening, DragonNecropolius, Mischiefplane, Cobalt Scar, Skyshrine, Siren's, and West Wastes are all predominantly group content, sometimes with a few raid mobs thrown in, but mainly group content. Don't even think about Hateplane revamp because you also have Runnyeye revamp plus Warrens and Stonebrunt all during 2001 plus other various tweaked zones.
JayDee
06-27-2025, 02:22 AM
Nah it's not a roadblock. For duplicate names, if a name exists on Blue you can only have that name on Green if you create the character from literally the same account that the character with said name on Blue is on. The staff already said (as early as Green launch) that they will add an "x" at the end of the Green char's name when the merge occurs. This is exactly what happened on live if you wanted to transfer your character to another server and your name was taken. Super easy.
For character slots, the staff warned people very clearly pre-launch that if you use the same account as you did for your characters on Blue, and you create more characters on Green such that the aggregate would be over 8, then you won't be able to utilize some characters when the merge occurs without deleting some. This was very clearly detailed and stated that there's nothing the staff can do about it (Titanium client issue) and if you don't heed the warning that's your choice. It's not an impediment to merge.
The only impediment is just the staff feeling like they want to use their unpaid free time to put in all the work. Eventually I feel like they will, but whether that's this year or a couple years from now is anybody's guess. I'm inclined to think it's more toward the former since they've recently been putting out patches that fix things much earlier in the timeline than Blue/Green are at currently.
What about names fhat are the same but with X at the end. Lets say late and latex. What about people trolling who make identical names but with an x at the end.
Also the character slots thing is hilarious. I do not see them erasing hard earned characters because they exceed the 8 character limit post merge. Imagine that character has legacy items vulak doze kt loot. Not gonna happen and it is too much work for the staff to retrieve and move those characters for 0 pay.
cd288
06-27-2025, 10:52 AM
What about names fhat are the same but with X at the end. Lets say late and latex. What about people trolling who make identical names but with an x at the end.
Also the character slots thing is hilarious. I do not see them erasing hard earned characters because they exceed the 8 character limit post merge. Imagine that character has legacy items vulak doze kt loot. Not gonna happen and it is too much work for the staff to retrieve and move those characters for 0 pay.
You can always make identical names with an X at the end. You could literally do that on the server right now lol. What an odd comment. Your first example is just confusing, as those are not duplicate names and therefore not relevant to your questions on a server merge.
They're not erasing the characters. They said that if you had more than 8 characters across Blue and Green on one account, then you (the player) would have to delete characters to access some of yours further down the list. The character still exists upon merge, but the Titanium client can't display it (characters are listed in alphabetical order - so you'd have to delete some further up the list to get the ones outside the 8 character limit to show up). You don't have to delete anything, and the staff aren't deleting anything either. But if you have more than 8 chars and you're trying to access one further down the list, you'll have some personal decisions to make.
They were VERY clear about this at launch. The warning is still there. They were very clear that there's nothing they can do about this issue so it's on you if you read the warning and for some inexplicable reason still choose to create more than 8 characters on one account across Blue and Green. To be honest, based on your comment it sounds like you may have made this mistake...sorry, but the staff made clear this was a totally at your own risk type of thing.
Jimjam
06-27-2025, 12:01 PM
on live you could just scroll through characters after the first eight just by pressing up and down at the character select.
JayDee
06-27-2025, 02:13 PM
You can always make identical names with an X at the end. You could literally do that on the server right now lol. What an odd comment. Your first example is just confusing, as those are not duplicate names and therefore not relevant to your questions on a server merge.
They're not erasing the characters. They said that if you had more than 8 characters across Blue and Green on one account, then you (the player) would have to delete characters to access some of yours further down the list. The character still exists upon merge, but the Titanium client can't display it (characters are listed in alphabetical order - so you'd have to delete some further up the list to get the ones outside the 8 character limit to show up). You don't have to delete anything, and the staff aren't deleting anything either. But if you have more than 8 chars and you're trying to access one further down the list, you'll have some personal decisions to make.
They were VERY clear about this at launch. The warning is still there. They were very clear that there's nothing they can do about this issue so it's on you if you read the warning and for some inexplicable reason still choose to create more than 8 characters on one account across Blue and Green. To be honest, based on your comment it sounds like you may have made this mistake...sorry, but the staff made clear this was a totally at your own risk type of thing.
What if I create your character names with an x at the end right now. How much clearer can I be
And I dont see them making people delete characters in the event they have more than 8 on one account. Also the inactive people who have that setup will return to random character removed? Ain't gonna happen buddy
Danth
06-27-2025, 02:41 PM
Also the inactive people who have that setup will return to random character removed? Ain't gonna happen buddy
That's not how it would work. Server-side nothing gets deleted, all the characters still exist post-merge. You see 8, but the others are still present in the database, just can't display at character select. As you delete characters, others become visible. This is only a problem for players who created more than 8 "keeper" characters between both servers.
For example, I have 7 total characters on my account on blue, and 3 more on green, for 10 total. In the event of a server merge, some of them would not display. However, of those ten, only three of them (all on blue) are characters I actually care about and wouldn't accept deleting. I could delete enough of the others to pare it down to 8 or fewer and all display, in the event of a server merge.
It's been so long since the admins said *anything* with respect to their future plans for P99 that we don't really know whether or not a server merge is still planned. My philosophy is play the game normally and deal with a merge if it happens.
cd288
06-30-2025, 10:42 AM
What if I create your character names with an x at the end right now. How much clearer can I be
And I dont see them making people delete characters in the event they have more than 8 on one account. Also the inactive people who have that setup will return to random character removed? Ain't gonna happen buddy
Ok...so if you create my character name with an X at the end then the staff would add an extra X or maybe a Y at the end of mine when they merge. This literally happened on live. You're acting like this is some huge hurdle lmao.
With respect to your second point, it's so weird that you're arguing about something that the staff literally said they would do/have no choice on due to client limitations.
Staff: "Hey, just a heads up everyone this is a Titanium UI limitation and when we eventually merge you won't be able to see more than 8 chars and would have to delete some up the list to get the lower ones to appear. So if you want more than 8 chars, create multiple accounts."
You: "The staff would never merge if this was what would happen, even though they expressly said that they would."
lol...
Videri
06-30-2025, 06:15 PM
I haven't logged into P99 in a long time. If the pop counter is correct it looks like green has twice the active pop of blue? Is that accurate? I logged into blue and ran around a bit (between swamp and EC) and felt pretty dead but don't even remember how busy it was when I last played years ago so can't really tell how much more dead it might be (if at all).
Hey there. I've been leveling a rogue, a notoriously group-dependent class, and I've found groups maybe 3/4 times I log on. It's a different set of challenges from the first year or so, but I believe there's still fun to be had!
Bardp1999
07-01-2025, 12:33 AM
The above poster is the guild leader of the largest guild on the server and has literally unlimited resources for twinking
<3
Teddie1056
07-01-2025, 01:40 AM
Fuse needs to be broken up, or bag limits need to be put in to discourage cowardice like merging the two top guilds.
kjs86z2
07-01-2025, 09:22 AM
Fuse needs to be broken up, or bag limits need to be put in to discourage cowardice like merging the two top guilds.
haha fuse being put on bag limits would be hilarious
years ago Riot was getting their shit pushed in week in week out and sucked enough GM dick to get bag limits put in place so they could go on life support
Ennewi
07-01-2025, 10:46 AM
Fuse needs to be broken up, or bag limits need to be put in to discourage cowardice like merging the two top guilds.
How is it tantamount to cowardice? Before both guilds merged, things were agreeable enough between leadership to where there weren't eleventy petitions for CSR to comb through. The main difference between quakes was simply that one guild got kt and the other got doze, one guild got vulak and the other tunare. Occasionally there would be a dain or yeli lost/gained here or there but, even so, this was all more in line with classic.
Even during Luclin, raid guilds claimed NTOV by killing Aary. That was the gatekeeper. 24-48 hours to kill everything else. From reading, this was true on multiple servers. Hardly what could be described as competitive, especially when guilds weren't mario karting each other to get Aary.
haha fuse being put on bag limits would be hilarious
years ago Riot was getting their shit pushed in week in week out and sucked enough GM dick to get bag limits put in place so they could go on life support
The wording here underscores why "competitive" EQ failed despite numerous efforts to keep it going on p99. For whatever reason, there's this need to always push the envelope, seeing what can be gotten away with, even on the forums. If that had been toned down, decent chance the raid scene wouldn't be what it is today.
kjs86z2
07-01-2025, 01:38 PM
The wording here underscores why "competitive" EQ failed despite numerous efforts to keep it going on p99. For whatever reason, there's this need to always push the envelope, seeing what can be gotten away with, even on the forums. If that had been toned down, decent chance the raid scene wouldn't be what it is today.
to quote the great Dannyl: P99 isn't about loot. Its about denying your enemies their pixels.
its always been about dunking on people outside your own tribe, a theme as old as humanity itself
Ennewi
07-01-2025, 02:31 PM
to quote the great Dannyl: P99 isn't about loot. Its about denying your enemies their pixels.
its always been about dunking on people outside your own tribe, a theme as old as humanity itself
Sorry we don't got chisel.
Solist
07-01-2025, 07:20 PM
haha fuse being put on bag limits would be hilarious
years ago Riot was getting their shit pushed in week in week out and sucked enough GM dick to get bag limits put in place so they could go on life support
The worst part is it was done with some hair brained, convoluted, multi week tracking bag limit system.
Not just a bag limit. You have a bag. You fill it. End of mobs for you.
Pick a number, all mobs are worth 1. You get 8 in a calendar week. Zero exceptions. Doesnt matter if it quakes 27 times in a week. Zero exceptions.
Xiderpunk2
07-03-2025, 01:41 AM
What puzzles me most about Fuse's existence is we all played P99 to replay the classic era of EQ, yet they do their very best to make the playing experience as Non-classic as possible. Going after raid encounters designed for 30-40 folks with over 150! The irony of it is whilst they blob/zerg every boss on the server to get loot that makes ZERO difference to their raiding, it's pointless. With the numbers you swarm every encounter with you could equip fine steel and banded and win.
Blue is a sorry state of affairs.
Ennewi
07-03-2025, 10:20 AM
This was an inevitable outcome given the scope of the project, no different from the economy and EC tunnel having little, if any, activity. Without custom content, there are only alts to re-explore old content, all of which eventually ding 60 to be parked at or outside any given raid zone. No more Dial-a-Port? No problem. Just swap to one of a limitless number of characters/accounts and you're right where you need to be in Norrath.
Jimjam
07-03-2025, 12:43 PM
For me, the biggest issue with the server is there is no churn of fresh start untwinked alts - that was the soul of the real eq for me.
Teddie1056
07-03-2025, 07:53 PM
How is it tantamount to cowardice? Before both guilds merged, things were agreeable enough between leadership to where there weren't eleventy petitions for CSR to comb through. The main difference between quakes was simply that one guild got kt and the other got doze, one guild got vulak and the other tunare. Occasionally there would be a dain or yeli lost/gained here or there but, even so, this was all more in line with classic.
Even during Luclin, raid guilds claimed NTOV by killing Aary. That was the gatekeeper. 24-48 hours to kill everything else. From reading, this was true on multiple servers. Hardly what could be described as competitive, especially when guilds weren't mario karting each other to get Aary.
The wording here underscores why "competitive" EQ failed despite numerous efforts to keep it going on p99. For whatever reason, there's this need to always push the envelope, seeing what can be gotten away with, even on the forums. If that had been toned down, decent chance the raid scene wouldn't be what it is today.
It's cowardice because it actively crushed every other guild on the server who wanted to compete by making the largest guild in server history. It's cowardice because you did it as Gravity was growing and getting wins.
It was terrible for the health of the server, and the quick pop decline is proof of that.
You say competitive raiding has failed on EQ? Well then why don't you guys agree to split the loot evenly amongst the guilds? If you disagree with competition so much, let's just rotate it. Or hell, bag limits.
But you won't do that. You'd never do that. Because you are selfish and cowardly.
Teddie1056
07-03-2025, 07:54 PM
How would this work? You get a max kill amount and then... mobs just stay up?
Danth
07-03-2025, 08:13 PM
Going after raid encounters designed for 30-40 folks with over 150! .
That's just P99. There were 70, 80, 100+ player raids going on when P99 was in Kunark.
It's a mixed bag, some downside and some advantage. Downside--a big one--is zerging does tend to suck the fun out of actually doing the content. Advantage is P99 never developed the culture of exclusivity that characterized high-end guilds from the original game. On P99 they'll take anyone.....meaning anyone has the opportunity to earn high-end items, provided he puts in the requisite hours in this year's top-end guild.
Ennewi
07-03-2025, 09:24 PM
It's cowardice because it actively crushed every other guild on the server who wanted to compete by making the largest guild in server history.
That isn't cowardice though? Other words could be used, but not cowardice. The merging of two guilds, who have been on good terms for years, isn't antithetical to the social aspect of an old school MMO. But this is besides the point. CSR could simply reinstate the camp meta. And anyone posting here could bump the /guildwar bug forums thread. If non-PVP competition is desired, that option exists more so on green and can be expected to return if/when a new server is released.
It's cowardice because you did it as Gravity was growing and getting wins.
It was terrible for the health of the server, and the quick pop decline is proof of that.
There's a list of issues that have been terrible for the health of the server, placing a guild merger at or towards the top is a stretch.
The server's population has always fluctuated. The numbers have been lower in years past with players announcing it as the death knell, yet here we are, admittedly limping along but limping nevertheless.
You say competitive raiding has failed on EQ?
In part, it brought about the current state of the game.
Well then why don't you guys agree to split the loot evenly amongst the guilds?
Again, camp meta. But also, there is the draft. Back in my day, during Kunark, one guild got all of the targets, there were no quakes, and the draft was but a twinkle in every casual's eye.
If you disagree with competition so much, let's just rotate it. Or hell, bag limits.
I prefer competitive raiding in theory but not in practice, at least not on here. When cheating is kept to a minimum with appropriate punishments, competition creates a memorable story behind each item acquired which has a greater nostalgic effect. Zerging through content doesn't provide that, but then there's no real motive for or point in cheating.
If wanting rotations or bag limits, post a thread/poll about it or something, idk. But it isn't as if other players in the past weren't asking for the same, many of which I was guilded with. But saying "let's just rotate it" is overlooking a very basic fact that the decision isn't up a few players within the playerbase. You and what army?
But you won't do that. You'd never do that. Because you are selfish and cowardly.
I haven't been raiding in months, so wrong person to assume elf motives about. I've also never been an officer or leader in any guild, ever, so wrong person again. I have no influence whatsoever over any aspect of the endgame. Some players like me enough to let me tag along and others tolerate my presence as long as I don't fuck up too much.
It's hard to take serious any outrage over nerds bonding in an ancient game on a server several years into the last expansion, especially when compared to real life matters, global and personal. If things aren't agreeable in this virtual world, than make every effort to affect change? That's how the draft came about.
Zuranthium
07-03-2025, 11:02 PM
Put raid loot on city GM's. Give all vendors and guards in the area linked aggro to GM's. Now the game suddenly has 25 more raid zones.
Ripqozko
07-03-2025, 11:07 PM
There's whole lot of people chatting that are post 2016 whining about server status, sorry you don't got warder loot.
Having (and saying "sorry you dont got") Warder loot isnt the flex you think it is (in 2025).
Jimjam
07-04-2025, 12:11 PM
Having (and saying "sorry you dont got") Warder loot isnt the flex you think it is (in 2025).
It reads like a crybaby regretting turning off the loot hose which only they an no one else had ever really cared about.
Ripqozko
07-04-2025, 12:44 PM
More post 2016 players whining cause they were years late, consider green 2.
Jimjam
07-04-2025, 01:46 PM
More post 2016 players whining cause they were years late, consider green 2.
Yeah, p99 is deep time. They’ll get their shot on green 2 if they are patient and really want it.
Zuranthium
07-04-2025, 02:35 PM
Primals keep dropping after the Sleeper is woken. The "sorry you don't get warder loot" thing is beyond stupid.
vales
07-04-2025, 06:35 PM
there's no reason why warders shouldn't reset to simulate new servers launching back in the day, when earthquakes simulate server restarts
Zuranthium
07-04-2025, 06:49 PM
That's supposed to be the point of Green server. p99 should be on its 3rd Green server right now, but it's still on the 1st one.
Snaggles
07-04-2025, 11:20 PM
Y’all are falling for the oldest forum trick in the book: A bump after 2 years.
JayDee
07-13-2025, 11:27 PM
there's no reason why warders shouldn't reset to simulate new servers launching back in the day, when earthquakes simulate server restarts
There is probably an argument or two against it but lets face it. The servers need something to revitalize them. Logging on when there isnt a quake in progress is kind of depressing
Wakanda
07-14-2025, 12:28 AM
You need to touch grass since you've clearly become so immersed that you look at everything through a "competition" and endgame/raiding lens.
A lot of us just want a merge because we enjoy the feeling of a more crowded world in general.
FR tho. I love EQ and could play hours daily, but 100% do not care about raiding. It was fun 25+ years ago when it was hard and scary, but it just doesn’t hit the same in 2025.
When I feel the need to do something scary now I do tough, high risk charm camps 😹
Ennewi
07-15-2025, 04:44 PM
But you won't do that. You'd never do that. Because you are selfish and cowardly.
Raid Meta Test: FTE Lockout
Duration: July 18th 11:59 PM EST - September 5th 11:59PM EST
Courageous, Selfless Representatives did it instead. Quest completed. /s
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