Project Quarm - 1 Box Planes of Power

[Lune]

Any chance of a pvp server in the future?

Now that you ask, I hope so, for the rest of the server's sake

[kjs86zskidoo]

someone posted a youtube remix of the voicemail left with that employer...

50 dkp to whoever finds it

LXBG_jT6sRk

[Ekco]

They called Rogean's employer, that I know for sure

thought it was the other way around, rog called some dude's employer because he was ddosing the server or something

[Evia]

Get rid of the voodoo d3d8 something. Or get a different version of voodoo.

https://wiki.takp.info/index.php/Getting_Started_on_Windows#Issues_running_the_game

Thanks! I'll try that! When I was there I didn't scroll down far enough...tried the "blurry text" remedy and it didn't resolve it. I'll try this now and see if I can play. The picture they show is exactly what mine looks like, so I'm hopeful I can fix it.

[DeadL]

Project Quarm should pre-ban Rants n Flames posters to save time.

[Evia]

Got the client to work last night. I still have a minor distortion in my text chat, but it's very minor. The vibe of the game seems great. Dark/light cycles feel more genuine to the time period. Someone named Elvis hooked it up with 5p so i got my 2nd lvl song and full bags and rdy to go! Gonna lvl this bard up to 5, get selos, then explore a bit. I hear theyve got classic boats? I'll have to give that a whirl.

[Homesteaded]

Got the client to work last night. I still have a minor distortion in my text chat, but it's very minor. The vibe of the game seems great. Dark/light cycles feel more genuine to the time period. Someone named Elvis hooked it up with 5p so i got my 2nd lvl song and full bags and rdy to go! Gonna lvl this bard up to 5, get selos, then explore a bit. I hear theyve got classic boats? I'll have to give that a whirl.

You can betabuff up to 25 and get starter gear to test other areas

[Deathrydar]

I hear theyve got classic boats?

......They have...what???

[Cyber Ninja]

Already ate a ban on their discord server for inquiring about Uthgaards past GM behavior - Staff still has the tolerance of toddlers a decade later - should have a promising future.

I got banned from the Discord as well

Cyber: Wrongly permabanned 2011.
Uth: Focus on today
Cyber: Still wrongly permaban?
Uth: Stop being obnoxious
Cyber: Your'e being obnoxious
Uth: You mad bro
*BANNED*

[Cyber Ninja]

Already ate a ban on their discord server for inquiring about Uthgaards past GM behavior - Staff still has the tolerance of toddlers a decade later - should have a promising future.

I got banned from the Discord as well for this conversation https://ibb.co/hg5ZwWn

TLDR:
Cyber: Wrongly permabanned 2011.
Uth: Focus on today
Cyber: Still wrongly permaban?
Uth: Stop being obnoxious
Cyber: Your'e being obnoxious
Uth: You mad bro
Cyber: Jumping to conclusions (Blocked)

[Cecily]

Literally every line of text from you was an escalation from the previous statement. Sounds like you deserved it both times.

[Toxigen]

Evidently Uth isn't involved anymore.

[Evia]

Logged into the Beta and beta buffed to 35. Rode on the boat from FP to BBM and fooled around with charm a bit.

There are a few weird things I've ran into but overall I'm having a good time. The boat ride music was A+ as was seeing the old boat model! But I did clip into the ocean when the boat was docked if I tried to go down to the under carriage. This was resolved once the boat started moving tho. I also had weird camera clipping issues on the boat where I couldn't see my character in 3rd person at certain angles. I also noticed a "stutter" like thing happening as the boat moved. It wasn't smooth like you'd expect but more stutter/choppy.

But the music and vibes were still on point! Also when I loaded into wfp from ec I arrived at the newb bind spot and not the ZL.

All in all though I'm having fun. I hope it can be comparable to p99 in polish over time.

[Seducio]

Literally every line of text from you was an escalation from the previous statement. Sounds like you deserved it both times.

Poor reading comprehension. Guy found out quickly he was right to be worried.

[Seducio]

Evidently Uth isn't involved anymore.

Good.

[magnetaress]

Literally every line of text from you was an escalation from the previous statement. Sounds like you deserved it both times.

[Seducio]

Thou shall not challenge the poor track record of others.

-Cecilly and Magnetaress

Words of wisdom.

[Secrets]

Tentative raid rules. I fully expect to see some folks go back to other servers and such over these rules, and that's fully okay. We're sticking to these. If specific parts do not work out, we can adjust them, but the base idea is fairly final.

See the following post:
https://i.imgur.com/Cp36gnx.png

[Seducio]

+1

Most transparent dev working on the scene.

[Naethyn]

I love it. Quakes are competition.

[Toxigen]

I like the 15 minute heads up on Quakes.

[booter]

Evidently Uth isn't involved anymore.

that would be a welcome development if this server wants to have players that actually trust it

[Nexsar]

Evidently Uth isn't involved anymore.

Pretty telling...

[booter]

Pretty telling...

yea it's actually a great development for the future of Quarm

[Cyber Ninja]

Literally every line of text from you was an escalation from the previous statement. Sounds like you deserved it both times.

I could see why you read it that way. I really wanted to see if he had matured over the last decade before I invest time in the server and get banned for a misunderstanding. Though I'm not sure why you think I deserved to be banned on p99 for asking a question though.

Cool avatar! Tao casting Blaze 3? :)

[Cecily]

Poor reading comprehension. Guy found out quickly he was right to be worried.
I can read just fine. Uth was signalling he didn't want to discuss it and guy kept pushing and throwing little barbs into the conversation.

1. Wanted to see if you mellowed out
2. I heard the raid scene you GMed for was a shit show, good thing I missed it
3. Wanted to know if you were still an obnoxious person

Yeah NS he got blocked.

https://i.ibb.co/sgS6zwD/Dude.jpg

[Seducio]

Thanks for posting the facts. If you think that reflects well on Uthgaard you should probably re-read it. You had mentioned you can read fine.

Quarm definitely dodged a bullet.

[Cecily]

I wrote why I'm right a couple times now. Go ahead and stop replying to me.

[Seducio]

Ahh one of those. You are always right. You knew it when you were born. There isn't a bone in your body that ever could be wrong. No need for self reflection. No need to question whether you are missing something.


Can I join your guild guy with great reading comprehension?

[Jimjam]

Amazing all the vitriol aimed at a server which isn’t even properly out yet and all the barbs are about things from a decade and a half ago, not now.

Makes me think people are feeling very threatened by the server, so it must be good. Deffo worth a try during the next couple of years.

[Seducio]

No vitriol toward Quarm on my part. I've mentioned several times I'm interested in the new server Secrets has been working on. The progress has been visible and transparent and quite cool to see.

[Lune]

Just a thought, please just fix Ivandyr's Hoop specifically and don't leave lifetap gimped for 14 years :)

[loramin]

Maybe I missed it in these 29 pages, but did we ever get an answer on legacy items?

Personally I could go either way on them existing, but if they do exist, I hope it's not P99-style. On P99 (where they dropped from the known "classic" mobs) they were just a reward for whoever leveled up first and raced to camp them ... which was incredibly unclassic.

Personally, I'd hope that if they are included, they would drop off random mobs instead, or somehow otherwise make it something you have to get lucky for, not some benefit you get for being one of the first people on the server to get to level X.

Also, I'm curious about TD binding and ToV binding.

[Seducio]

Maybe I missed it in these 29 pages, but did we ever get an answer on legacy items?

Personally I could go either way on them existing, but if they do exist, I hope it's not P99-style. On P99 (where they dropped from the known "classic" mobs) they were just a reward for whoever leveled up first and raced to camp them ... which was incredibly unclassic.

Personally, I'd hope that if they are included, they would drop off random mobs instead, or somehow otherwise make it something you have to get lucky for, not some benefit you get for being one of the first people on the server to get to level X.

Also, I'm curious about TD binding and ToV binding.

As best as I can tell:

Legacy Items in the first 3 months. Also in for certain quake style events after the initial 3 months. 50% drop rate for jboots, guise, manastone. Final plans haven't fully solidified but this is what's current. Subject to change prior to server launch.

It appears they will be dropping off their correct mobs rather than random mobs.

Haven't seen specifics on TD binding or ToV binding. You'd probably get good/quick responses on discord if you asked there.

[booter]

I wrote why I'm right a couple times now. Go ahead and stop replying to me.

imagine siding with uth :o

[Cecily]

Speaking of mad 10 years later.

[Seducio]

I could care less what happened ten years ago. Had nothing to do with me. Folks that can't see blemished reputation and signals of a future repeat offender need to open their eyes.

[Seducio]

Perhaps you're pals with Uth or are Uth for all I know. In which case I get it.

[Seducio]

some benefit you get for being one of the first people on the server to get to level X.

It appears the legacy items are no drop and each legacy item is limited to one per character over level 30 in Secrets current communication on the matter. Could change.

[Toxigen]

manastones for all

[Seducio]

One way to make them somewhat unremarkable I suppose. Scarcity was always their value.

[loramin]

It appears the legacy items are no drop and each legacy item is limited to one per character over level 30 in Secrets current communication on the matter. Could change.

This will be the true test of Quarm.

Will they implement a (hopefully improved version of) /list? Will they station a human GM to watch the legacy camps 24/7? Will they just allow people to train each other (or do other sketchy stuff) at those camps?

There's no great options, because legacy camps are a clusterfuck (and really popular camps in general ... but legacy camps are super popular).

[Rager and Quitter]

I'm ready for Quarm, I repeat, I'll abandon P99 at the drop of a server. I'm ready to love again.

[Deathrydar]

I'm ready for Quarm, I repeat, I'll abandon P99 at the drop of a server. I'm ready to love again.

Can I have your stuff?

[Nexsar]

I could care less what happened ten years ago. Had nothing to do with me. Folks that can't see blemished reputation and signals of a future repeat offender need to open their eyes.

Are you really going to ignore Secrets' reputation while trashing Uths?

[Seducio]

One is acting transparently. The other isn't.

Can you guess who is who?

[booter]

Are you really going to ignore Secrets' reputation while trashing Uths?

there is no need to because one has a far worse reputation

[Seducio]

manastones for all

Quick update: manastones won't be no drop

They will be tradable. Still only one allowed to be looted one per character over level 30. EE has 50% drop rate. In for first 3 months. Classic ends and Kunark starts month 9.

All still hasn't been finalized.

[Rager and Quitter]

Can I have your stuff?

Sure.

[Tann]

What's the spaghetti policy here?

By spaghetti I mean pet exp stuff

[Swish]

I'm going to play just to see how good/bad the pathing is in Unrest by comparison.

[Homesteaded]

The client is really bad. Mouse look issues need to be addressed. PvP quakes? Lame.

Cooling big time on this project.

[Lune]

EQ PvP is bad. But as long as it's scarce, like 5% on quake as mentioned, I think it could add an interesting layer to things. For example rangers are pretty boss in PvP in classic era and it'd be a reason to have them around other than speedbump. Pretty spicy.

[Toxigen]

people that are scared of a 5% chance at pvp for 2 hours are massive pussies

hope this helps

[booter]

The client is really bad. Mouse look issues need to be addressed. PvP quakes? Lame.

Cooling big time on this project.

thx for shaer

[Homesteaded]

people that are scared of a 5% chance at pvp for 2 hours are massive pussies

hope this helps

Yeah I'm scared of EQ PVP. No one is scared, it's just not fun and a terrible idea. They've went back and forth on hybrid/race penalties. Heard rumblings of some petty dev control issues. I'll play just not all-in as I was previously.

[long.liam]

No monk AC nerf is a deal-breaker for me. This overpowered class definitely needs a nerf. It doesn't make sense lore wise for monks to have the same mitigation as a plate wearing class. From a lore perspective, they are practically naked. They should have high avoidance but little to no mitigation. They are DPS class, not a tanking class.

[Jimjam]

It makes sense for decent mitigation - monks ‘roll with the punches’ and we’ve all seen martial arts demos of some geezer getting booted in the nads.

That said, yeah, it isn’t great game design. Vanilla had monks encouraged to live a life shunning material possessions, but kunark gave them a huge relative improvement of weapons (from the second worst tier to best) and then velious just gave them top toer armour.

Imo monks needed a different line of progression that continued the theme of rejecting possessions (instead of wearing skin suits, wtf).

[Rager and Quitter]

I think it's good that not everyone wants to play Quarm. It's not like you have to. I think the hostility comes from the people who are prone to not wanting to fall behind other players, and the idea of starting a fresh server again scares people who have invested so much time in P99.

If you don't like the idea if Quarm, stay on P99 and farm pixels. For the rest of the people tired of the P99 scene, Quarm is welcomed, even with its flaws. And claws. I miss my beastlord.

[aussenseiter]

I think it's good that not everyone wants to play Quarm. It's not like you have to. I think the hostility comes from the people who are prone to not wanting to fall behind other players, and the idea of starting a fresh server again scares people who have invested so much time in P99.

If you don't like the idea if Quarm, stay on P99 and farm pixels. For the rest of the people tired of the P99 scene, Quarm is welcomed, even with its flaws. And claws. I miss my beastlord.

It's objectively a shitbox if ShowEQ is allowed and the norm.

I wish you all the best.

[Evia]

The Showeq thing concerns me. I'll still be scoping out the server, but I'm less confident that this will be the p99 replacement for me.

[Tann]

Only thing that concerns me is GG is all over Quarms discord, dude is batshit crazy

[Secrets]

In case you missed the announcement in Discord / stream:

Project Quarm launches October 1st, 2023 @ 3pm EST / 12PM PST / 7PM UTC.

See you there!

[Secrets]

Also, I think it's fair to mention the earthquake raid rules folks were concerned about were mostly removed.

Here's the three remaining rulesets for earthquakes, and GM-Enforced Rotations are still the default rules:


DPS race for the next 24 hours. During a DPS race ruleset, yellow text is disabled.
First to Engage receives credit. Players will have 60 seconds once engaging an NPC to get its HP below 97% to solidify the tag. Loot will be revoked if the yellow text is not adhered to.
Extra Rotation NPC. Only guilds in that rotation will have access to kill the extra NPC. Anyone who violates this rule falls under the kill stealing violations and will result in punishment.

[Duik]

What advantage is having showeq to the running of the server. I get that it 'shows' things to players they cant possibly know. Can it be limited? Like no warping and loot inspection enforced via showeq version somehow. Idk. Wondering why its even a thing. Seems cheaty to me.

[Evia]

What advantage is having showeq to the running of the server. I get that it 'shows' things to players they cant possibly know. Can it be limited? Like no warping and loot inspection enforced via showeq version somehow. Idk. Wondering why its even a thing. Seems cheaty to me.
It's definitely cheaty. I dislike it for the same reason I dislike boxing, I won't be doing it. So if it's not going to be disciplined against everyone's gonna be using it. It's also tied hand in hand with the RMT community.
And if everyone's using it there goes my idea of a 1box pop server that feels legit.

I'll still keep my eyes on it. I'm hopeful I'm wrong but I'm worried it's just gonna be a cheat rmt fest.

[loramin]

It's definitely cheaty. I dislike it for the same reason I dislike boxing, I won't be doing it. So if it's not going to be disciplined against everyone's gonna be using it. It's also tied hand in hand with the RMT community.
And if everyone's using it there goes my idea of a 1box pop server that feels legit.

I'll still keep my eyes on it. I'm hopeful I'm wrong but I'm worried it's just gonna be a cheat rmt fest.

The problem with cheats is, they're a race to the bottom.

You say you won't use them now, but after the tenth time of tracking a named, only to find a non-tracker with ShowEQ beat you to it, the odds of you adopting the cheat will rise.

By allowing ShowEQ, Secrets is basically saying he wants everyone to use ShowEQ: that's just human nature when it comes to cheats, because no one likes being beaten by a cheater.

[Fireblade7]

Stupid question. As a casual, am I going to care if people use showeq? I can’t see that it would affect my day to day.

And also, do I need to install Everquest again and use one for p99 and one for this project?

Thanks all

[Evia]

The problem with cheats is, they're a race to the bottom.

You say you won't use them now, but after the tenth time of tracking a named, only to find a non-tracker with ShowEQ beat you to it, the odds of you adopting the cheat will rise.

By allowing ShowEQ, Secrets is basically saying he wants everyone to use ShowEQ: that's just human nature when it comes to cheats, because no one likes being beaten by a cheater.

Exactly.

So you either join in on what you're not interested in doing, or you knowingly play suboptimally.

[Evia]

Stupid question. As a casual, am I going to care if people use showeq? I can’t see that it would affect my day to day.

And also, do I need to install Everquest again and use one for p99 and one for this project?

Thanks all

ShowEQ in a general sense is a 3rd party app that gives zone information like if a named mob is up ect.
At its best it makes everyone a ranger tracker
At its worst it warps ppl around the map

[Yemic]

What's the spaghetti policy here?

By spaghetti I mean pet exp stuff

You get full xp with a pet solo if you do one damage

[loramin]

At its best it makes everyone a ranger tracker

Better than a ranger: ShowEQ has infinite range, and tells you what the mob is wielding, so you can zone in and instantly know if it's up, where, and whether it spawned with the sword you want.

As for the warping, I think Secrets' plan is to rely on human GMs and player reporting, ie. how Live EQ dealt with it, but I'm ... skeptical of that plan.

It might have worked with an army of paid live GMs, but P99 has shown the limits of relying on a much smaller, all volunteer GM team, and that's with anti-cheat code!

I suspect the egregious cheaters, like the guy who warps during prime playtime hours to a just-spawned Ancient Cyclops in SRo, will likely get reported and caught. The more subtle cheaters though, like the guy only warps when no one is around to see him, will last a lot longer, and as long as they last they'll keep denying legit players access to items.

And the guy who never warps, he just happens to make a beeline to the best named in random zones? I just don't see the staff having the bandwidth to sit and watch all the players for that sort of behavior, and it'd be almost impossible for players to prove, so I expect that form of cheating to be rampant on Quarm.

[Lune]

You'd have to have some server-side anti-cheat detection code with some level of automation like that suggested by Tristantio in the other thread:

Cecily sighting!

For anti-cheat - maybe it has been done, or maybe it wasn't shown to be feasible, but I don't understand why some sort of statistical analysis isn't done server side to detect it.

If you had an eventing system (think Erlang for high throughput) getting a copy of each server event passing through it, and noting anomalies (player x/y all of a sudden jumping to a very different value in a single tick or time window - narrow it based on class, so if a class has shadow step, second checks are done), I think you could have server side warp detection without adding a bunch of side-concerns into the existing server client (it'd run on it's own box).

Similarly, for mob spawns - anytime a named mob spawns, snapshot the loc of all player's in zone (their last packet), then run a check when it gets engaged - if the time between player starting location, mob spawn and mob engagement were all indicative of a "beeline" - flag the account - build up too many flags - enact secondary measures - invisible GM or auto-ban (no player /report ever needed).

Maybe I should put my money where my mouth is and try to get a local setup + proof of concept for this (if it hasn't already been done anywhere?)

And at that point, why not just have client-side anti-cheat like P99 does?

[Rager and Quitter]

I didn't realize ShowEQ was a thing until I was running in the middle of Overthere on my druid the one time i decided to try Red99 and a gnome wizard popped right under me and 1 shot me. I asked him how he found me in the middle of nowhere OT, and he said "Oh, I was bound right there." And I didn't know any better until someone mentioned people port around with a program.

What benefit is there to allowing such a program at all? Why not just give every class tracking if such 3rd party programs are allowed? Why not just give all players access to GM commands with the same functionality as ShowEQ?

[Evia]

What benefit is there to allowing such a program at all? Why not just give every class tracking if such 3rd party programs are allowed? Why not just give all players access to GM commands with the same functionality as ShowEQ?

and now you've stumbled onto my concern

having something like this running rampant can quickly make a legit server feel like those cheap GM summon item servers.

[Trexller]

cheap GM summon item servers.

which servers are those? preferably using titanium client

would be fun to goof around with # commands

[algernop]

Unfortunately the 85/15 piggyback rule wasn't created until after Omens of War came out so that'll never be on PQ unless Secrets decides to add it as an out of era QoL feature later.

This is not true. I remember being piggy backed before even GoD came out.

[Jimjam]

This is not true. I remember being piggy backed before even GoD came out.

Flaggot!

Yea this cme out way before oow. Before even GoD i reckon. Somewhere from loy to ldon. I am sure i was being a flaggot toward the tail end of ldon.

Man i loved delving for augs and building up thr alt currencies to spend on the armours and spells at each camp!

My fave augs were the bounce ones - proced a buff that had a chance to reflect spells at the caster. Always dreamt of reflecting a death touch but never did!

[mccraw5]

I'm still confused if this is MAC only or will it be on Windows PC as well?

[Evia]

I'm still confused if this is MAC only or will it be on Windows PC as well?

It was originally Mac only, but takp has made a windows version. So there is both a Mac client and Windows one.

[mccraw5]

Thank you for the response. :)

[aussenseiter]

Flaggot!

Yea this cme out way before oow. Before even GoD i reckon. Somewhere from loy to ldon. I am sure i was being a flaggot toward the tail end of ldon.

Man i loved delving for augs and building up thr alt currencies to spend on the armours and spells at each camp!

My fave augs were the bounce ones - proced a buff that had a chance to reflect spells at the caster. Always dreamt of reflecting a death touch but never did!

Hope you find a good barrister or it's tea time for you, mate.

[Excision Rottun]

What advantage is having showeq to the running of the server. I get that it 'shows' things to players they cant possibly know. Can it be limited? Like no warping and loot inspection enforced via showeq version somehow. Idk. Wondering why its even a thing. Seems cheaty to me.

ShowEQ does not allow warping. All it does is show mob / PC locations in a zone on a map.

What you are talking about is MQ, which is not going to be allowed.

[aussenseiter]

You're welcome to do the research yourself but you'll find that you're wrong.

85/15 is said to be AK classic by the folks who would know.

[Daldaen]

85/15 is said to be AK classic by the folks who would know.

Al’Kabor had an extremely broken variant of 85/15 and only in two locations.

The first was the zoneline from HoH to HoHB. This was so broken that it allowed 6 flagged characters to bring in 54 unflagged characters. Furthermore the three HoH trials were completely optional for Elemental and Time flagging purposes, as was Aerin’Dar.

The second was Solusek’s Tower. This one did require 85/15, but because it was a key within a zone theoretically you could have 6 flagged people in a raid invite unflagged one at a time, click up and drop the raid, ferrying an unlimited number of people up there.

So the code technically existed, but I think Hobart ported over some data to make those two weird cases work and obviously not as intended.

85/15 went through a few different iterations but it definitely wasn’t fully in place until late 2004. That’s around when they introduced backflags from EP God hails and Phase 3 PoTime backflag keys.

https://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-10310.html

[aussenseiter]

Al’Kabor had an extremely broken variant of 85/15 and only in two locations.

The first was the zoneline from HoH to HoHB. This was so broken that it allowed 6 flagged characters to bring in 54 unflagged characters. Furthermore the three HoH trials were completely optional for Elemental and Time flagging purposes, as was Aerin’Dar.

The second was Solusek’s Tower. This one did require 85/15, but because it was a key within a zone theoretically you could have 6 flagged people in a raid invite unflagged one at a time, click up and drop the raid, ferrying an unlimited number of people up there.

So the code technically existed, but I think Hobart ported over some data to make those two weird cases work and obviously not as intended.

85/15 went through a few different iterations but it definitely wasn’t fully in place until late 2004. That’s around when they introduced backflags from EP God hails and Phase 3 PoTime backflag keys.

https://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-10310.html

You're who I was thinking of but I guess I don't read good and other stuff too.

[aussenseiter]

PQ isn't an AK clone.

https://media.tenor.com/ivGd-6C-ZsUAAAAd/squirt-bottle.gif

[Jimjam]

You're welcome to do the research yourself but you'll find that you're wrong.
Okay.

https://web.archive.org/web/20031202224205/http://everquest.allakhazam.com:80/db/quest.html?quest=2638

People talking in 2003, a year before oow, and in the year before GoD, about the 85% rule.

[Caillou]

Don't see this working out that well unless you can stop MQ from being trivial to use.

[Rager and Quitter]

Looks like I need to learn how to use ShowEQ and MQ then? Never used a third party program in a game before, but I guess if I want to play on Quarm I'm gonna have to figure out how they work.

[aussenseiter]

So looks like we were both wrong. The 85/15 rule first went into effect during the June 11th 2003 patch. So during Ykesha about 3 months before Ldon came out. So unfortunately not during PoP so it won't be active on PQ unless Secrets later determines he wants to add it as a QoL feature.

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=1748

Nov 2003 is after June 2003.

Hope this helps.

[Lune]

Looks like I need to learn how to use ShowEQ and MQ then? Never used a third party program in a game before, but I guess if I want to play on Quarm I'm gonna have to figure out how they work.

These programs are still against the rules and subject to ban if caught, and Secrets may decide to rethink or expand enforcement. If they're doing things right, MQ especially is risky to use. Will remain to be seen.

[loramin]

Yeah, personally I'm a lot less worried about MQ because it's observable. Eventually someone will see and report you, a GM will silently watch you do it again, and you'll be gone from the server.

ShowEQ is more insidious. If I pop into Kedge, check ShowEQ, see nothing is up, and leave ... even if a GM is watching me, all it looks like is that I changed my mind on where to hunt (maybe I saw no one in zone was LFG, so I left). If I instead see that (say) the Ferocious Shark is up, and head for him ... all a GM would see is me checking a spawn point to see if a mob is up (and then discovering that it is).

The net result is that a lot of people will use ShowEQ and get nameds that non-Show-EQ users will miss out on, while the non-users won't even know it's going on: they'll just feel like nameds are up a bit less frequently on Quarm.

I'm still pretty excited about Quarm, but I don't want to have to use ShowEQ, or miss out on a ton of loot to people who do, so this might just stop me from joining the server :(

[aussenseiter]

Legacy of Ykesha came out in February of 2003.

Hope this helps.

Unfortunately the 85/15 piggyback rule wasn't created until after Omens of War came out so that'll never be on PQ unless Secrets decides to add it as an out of era QoL feature later.

https://media.tenor.com/DTs00HGZhtgAAAAC/dave-chappelle-prince.gif

[Jimjam]

So looks like we were both wrong. The 85/15 rule first went into effect during the June 11th 2003 patch. So during Ykesha about 3 months before Ldon came out. So unfortunately not during PoP so it won't be active on PQ unless Secrets later determines he wants to add it as a QoL feature.

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=1748

Other dude literally said pre-god (i correctly suggested it was loy/ldonish). They were right. That said, out of era for the discussed server though, yes, but for some reason you were talking about the grin darkness of the far future that is GoD.

Man I loved Loy/ldon!

[magnetaress]

If I play on quarm i plan to never visit PoP

[Barik]

This server is going to be more popular then people think and I'm here for it.

[Trexller]

If I play on quarm i plan to never visit PoP

i bet you will

PoP was a breath of fresh air, with fresh and innovative new content after the disappointment of Luclin.

then, it all got polluted by the following expansions

[Jimjam]

If I play on quarm i plan to never visit PoP

My first move is to move to PoK and bind at the top of the elevator and med in the lift pesking staff for help when i glitch thru and 20k.

[Lune]

Eventually someone will see and report you

https://i.imgur.com/c21CS8D.gif

[Toxigen]

Secrets thinks ShowEQ won't be an issue.

lol

I was gung-ho for this server but I'm pulling back a bit now.

[aussenseiter]

My first move is to move to PoK and bind at the top of the elevator and med in the lift pesking staff for help when i glitch thru and 20k.

I'm gonna buff charm pets with ferocity! And give them glowing black swords!

[Secrets]

i bet you will

PoP was a breath of fresh air, with fresh and innovative new content after the disappointment of Luclin.

then, it all got polluted by the following expansions

There's an argument to be made about PoP ruining what even Luclin had put into motion, because Luclin, aside from The Serpent's Spine (which I have gripes with about re-itemization of classic content) was the last expansion in which we had a starting city, and 1-60 content in the same release.

I would say that PoP set the modern design of EQ on an irreversible tract. But, also, the design of Planes of Power did allow for there to be proper power growth versus future expansions.

Folks looked forward to entering Tranquility and such at 46; though, planes irrevocably changed the 46+ grinding experience.

In every situation, Disease, Nightmare, Justice and Innovation would outperform the experience in a full group of every other zone at 46+, with the exception of some outliers like The Deep, Ssra's basement (undead!), Akheva, Umbral and similar zones with comparable mob levels and less mob stats, or niche mob types.

However, it's unquestionably better to grind in Valor than any zone once you get access to it. Same goes with Tactics, BoThunder, and Fire when you get access to those. Even if your gear is shit, you've still got aggro kiting in HoH, frogs in Storms, fiends in Valor, etc... which can simply be aggro kited without risk.

The experience in those zones are so good to the point that it turns everything prior into a playground for item farming and challenge modes - like soloing Trakanon, Kunark Dragons, or doing Velious content with less folks.

If you're planar geared and hit 65 w/ planar AAs, you're going to be demonstrably better than those with without, too. Not to the point where you aren't able to progress, but you have a slower time progressing in that era.

Every expansion since then has gotten worse.

So, PoP really did set that in motion.

[Secrets]

Secrets thinks ShowEQ won't be an issue.

lol

I was gung-ho for this server but I'm pulling back a bit now.

I don't think it'll be an issue because I'm not committing to telling anyone exactly when and how they'll be caught, and if they want to fuck around and find out, they are welcome to waste multiple weeks, or months of their lives.

I feel strongly to the point where we'll be able to systematically remove these people every so often so that their time is wasted accordingly to the time it takes me to implement extra detection.

It does take longer to hit 50/60/65 with AAs than it does to implement extra measures, after all. And it only takes one detection to irrevocably remove a character.

[aussenseiter]

"Come eat at my restaurant, I won't punch you in the head"

*punches you in the head*

[Trexller]

"Come eat at my restaurant, I won't punch you in the head"

*punches you in the head*

but the meal is free, and was prepared better than most other restaurants will serve it.

[Secrets]

"Come eat at my restaurant, I won't punch you in the head"

*punches you in the head*

To be very clear, our rules do state that ShowEQ, MySEQ and MQ are against the rules. I've never stated that they aren't, or that our stance is set in stone.

If we catch you deserving a punch in the head, we'll give you a punch in the head. That has always been my stance.

I think the important part here is that people, on their own volition, took "We're not going to be actively looking for map programs because we don't currently see a situation in which they'd be actively able to benefit" as "We're not doing this, ever. It's pointless." and that's simply not the case.

The posts here have kind of struck me as some sort of clamoring on the latter assumption, not the former fact or the rules themselves.

I would rather spend my time on fixing bugs and other development tasks post-launch, as spending a ton of time on cheat detection takes away from the quality of the server.

If cheating becomes a problem, I will make sure there isn't one.

Based on this thread alone, and the excitement of folks 'looking forward to' cheating, it's likely that there will be more work to do than what I have already done before launch.

[aussenseiter]

To be very clear, our rules do state that ShowEQ, MySEQ and MQ are against the rules. I've never stated that they aren't, or that our stance is set in stone.

If we catch you deserving a punch in the head, we'll give you a punch in the head. That has always been my stance.

I think the important part here is that people, on their own volition, took "We're not going to be actively looking for map programs because we don't currently see a situation in which they'd be actively able to benefit" as "We're not doing this, ever. It's pointless." and that's simply not the case.

The posts here have kind of struck me as some sort of clamoring on the latter assumption, not the former fact or the rules themselves.

I would rather spend my time on fixing bugs and other development tasks post-launch, as spending a ton of time on cheat detection takes away from the quality of the server.

If cheating becomes a problem, I will make sure there isn't one.

Based on this thread alone, and the excitement of folks 'looking forward to' cheating, it's likely that there will be more work to do than what I have already done before launch.

Withdrawn, cheers!

[Seducio]

P99's success was not immediate. It came over time from committed devs and CSR team. When Blue was released there would have been no way to predict p99's current success. The trust here grew slowly from dev/staff participation and is actually still growing as best as I can tell.

Quarm will have a few 'popularity' tests along the way and if it passes those it has hooks within its via progression through four expansions to become quite popular. Each dropped expansion is a mini hype moment and can draw players back or get new players on board.

As long as CSR is handled and it appears it will be via code for blatant exploits and then dev enforcement rather than a whole team of CSRs like p99 has then confidence will grow in server over time. Whether this will be adequate will be observed by the player base who will respond by playing there or not.

Anti Cheats and handling of CSR concerns separate the fake servers from the potential real ones. That's how Blue grew confidence in the community to get so many of us deeply on board with Green. Other devs took note and it appears Secrets has taken note.

I'm not going to be a Debbie Downer on this one like some of the old farts on this board. I remain in the hopeful category.

[loramin]

because we don't currently see a situation in which they'd be actively able to benefit

While I liked the spirit of your post, I found this part a bit ... hard to swallow. You really can't see how someone can benefit from being to tell exactly what nameds are up, and what they are wielding, from across the zone? Really? :eek:

And if you do (I really don't see how you can't), how exactly would you solve that problem without an anti-cheat mechanism, when a ShowEQ user (ie. cheater) is otherwise indistinguishable from a non-cheater? In other words, how can this be true:

If cheating becomes a problem, I will make sure there isn't one.

P.S. I say this as someone who wants to play on (a cheat-free) Quarm.

[Seducio]

I see where you are coming from Loramin. I also see where the Quarm team is at also. Heavy handed early 'invasive enforcement' commitments may be less effective than what Secrets is planning. Secrets also has expressed a different philosophy than p99s enforcement mechanisms.

When it comes to Anti Cheats many devs across the online gaming industry we have to resort to invasiveness of the user's device info, sending data back to devs of possible current programs running and processes the machine is using, and IP connection that is connected to the server. Not to mention IP hunting across multiple services to catch the RMTers, which many here are ok with. If someone did the same maneuvers on your grandma however you'd probably consider legal action. As the maneuvers could be misconstrued as Identity Theft.

The counter argument that Anti Cheat is very important to focus on so that the players can feel they are in a world that is fair. An example would be juicing and drug testing in Professional Sports. At the Olympic level and Pro sports level athletes submit to drug testing to make sure they aren't on steroids and other performance enhancing drugs. They have their blood drawn etc. So the question philosophically is the juice with the squeeze?

To make a popular server like p99 the answer might be a resounding yes.

In addition to training proper CSR etiquette for dealing with actual humans, devs have to be concerned with CSR over eagerness and that in some situations they look like Paul Blart the mall cop who don't realize they aren't law enforcement however. Basically nerds with power they shouldn't have. Devs here on p99 as well as Secrets have seen both the failures and successes in the Emu scene in this regard.

P99 devs biggest headaches have probably come from their Anti Cheats rubbing folks the wrong way who considered them invasive, a few of their CSR folks who went rogue, and old agreements with Daybreak and others that might not make as much sense now as they did when they were signed.

Secrets is less ok with this level of invasiveness due the excess level of private info he has witnessed other organizations collect when they perform invasive Anti Cheat mechanisms on online games. He evolved to think that some devs go too far in what they are collecting about you and have running the background that you don't know about.

It's possible that the level of invasiveness that some online companies such as Riot currently employ could at a future date become illegal. Imagine a online gaming company accidently finding out super high level political info like a mini Hunter Biden type scenario or possible accidental capture of classified DoD documents. It's also possible the level of invasiveness some companies are willing to to employ will only increase if the laws remain as they are. Most users currently will give up privacy for convenience and this is taken advantage of by devs seeking to create popular free products.

Some have figured out that if a product is free. You are the product.

[Seducio]

*is the juice worth the squeeze?

[loramin]

Look, I don't have strong opinions on rules enforcement on emulated EQ servers .. I truly don't. I just see an unsolved problem.

I also agree: anti-cheats are invasive, and (all else being equal) invasive solutions are worse. I've even previously agreed that MQ-based cheating can be solved without the need for invasive anti-cheats.

But, I just don't see how a petition/GM-only system can solve ShowEQ. If the server sends info to the client (like which nameds are up), there's nothing to stop another program on that client (eg. ShowEQ) from seeing it ... and if someone abuses that info, there's no way to detect it (without anti-cheats).

So, I'm not at all saying "Quarm must use an anti-cheat". If Secrets could (say) limit the server so that it only sends data on NPCs nearby, it would solve ShowEQ without the need for anti-cheats.

But without some plan to address ShowEQ, it feels like you anyone saying "Quarm won't have cheaters" is just doing this:

https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/covered-eyes-ears-clogged-fingers-260nw-1673527549.jpg

[Secrets]

So, I'm not at all saying "Quarm must use an anti-cheat". If Secrets could (say) limit the server so that it only sends data on NPCs nearby, it would solve ShowEQ without the need for anti-cheats.

But without some plan to address ShowEQ, it feels like you anyone saying "Quarm won't have cheaters" is just doing this

The server already sends data on NPCs nearby only, at least in terms of movement data, not names.

The petition/GM-only system won't be the only component on launch. There will be one that is both client-side, and serverside too.
There will be measures to track folks that are cheating that won't be in the public release of Quarm. This measure will likely see the same scrutiny that P99 has with their anticheat, and I intend to forward those complaints to the toilet as they do.

It's also fair to assume that folks are cheating the same way on P99 as they would be on Quarm.. a few may slip past the cracks, and that few is all a guild or group needs to impact the game.

So, in actuality, I don't think it'll be any different than P99's cheating situation as of today. People are getting caught with manual GM observation on P99 still, and automatic layers of detection also exist to catch those that aren't as tech savvy, but utilize cheat programs.

That will be the case with us, though we're putting about the same level of effort into detection that P99 is, so...

[Seducio]

An undeniable metric of success for Project Quarm would be if it becomes popular enough that Daybreak/Dark Paw/'whoever owns IP' reaches out to make an agreement with PQ like they did with p99 after its success reached a level of being noticed.

If Quarm gets a request like that it would already be successful enough to have gotten on the radar. If it can weather that kind of a request and continue to grow afterward like p99 did, then the scene as a whole will evolve quite a bit.

Am I in wishful thinking territory? Perhaps. I think your concerns are legitimate Loramin. Many old school EQers and us P99ers in particular don't like cheating. I think these concerns are being considered by the Quarm team.

There will be push back from some players with regard to dev decisions along the way regardless of which direction those decisions go. A non-corrupt lead CSR manager would go a long way in freeing up Secrets time, but it comes at a cost of power diffusion. If Secrets shows fortitude and innovation in dealing with issues that will inevitably crop up along the way all old school EQ players will ultimately benefit.

[loramin]

All I'm asking is this.

I'm a ShowEQ user: I play the game and look indistinguishable from a normal user, but I cheat and see what mobs are up when I enter a zone.

How will you (or the rest of the Quarm staff) catch me? It seems like a straightforward and fair question to ask, and you don't have to provide all the secret tricks being used to catch cheaters, I'm just looking for a simple/general explanation.

[Seducio]

Are you open to the notion that the solution to your very question may evolve over time?

Early on in Blue's inception many of these very questions were still unanswered. The p99 team had to monitor what the players were up to and create boundaries as they went. They were building the plane as they flew it.

Expecting game devs to get everything right on day 1 is something that went away in the 90s.

[Secrets]

All I'm asking is this.

I'm a ShowEQ user: I play the game and look indistinguishable from a normal user, but I cheat and see what mobs are up when I enter a zone.

How will you (or the rest of the Quarm staff) catch me? It seems like a straightforward and fair question to ask, and you don't have to provide all the secret tricks being used to catch cheaters, I'm just looking for a simple/general explanation.

The following realistic options exist outside of being invasive. Going into detail on any of these would make it fairly easy to bypass any protections:
1) Clientside detection / prevention. Invasive measures could be taken in the future if cheating becomes a problem / pervasive.
2) Serverside manipulation of the client with data provided to it.
3) Manual observation in combination with the above.

These are the measures P99 has taken and we'll be doing similar measures. Though, subjectively more or less effective in some cases.

The biggest deterrence (ie; the above covers detection/prevention, see: https://technology.riotgames.com/news/riots-approach-anti-cheat) that EQ has is its insane time commitment.
There is only so much damage one person can do in a limited period of time, and the risks of being banned and actively caught outweigh the benefit of cheating in almost every case.

[loramin]

So, not to be flippant, but it sounds like the plan is to wait and see if it's a problem, and then either institute an anti-cheat or somehow observe/catch the cheaters? Do I have that correct?

The only issue, as I've already mentioned, is that observation will be very challenging (impossible?), because ShowEQ cheaters aren't observably different the way MQ cheaters are.

But let's run with that plan of waiting to see how bad the cheating is before you address it. Just one other simple question then: how are you going to know whether you have a cheating problem or not?

Again, the whole core problem is that these cheaters aren't detectable.

[Trexller]

that's how things went on Blue launch.

at one point, there were so many of us using MQ that they couldn't ban everyone

we got a 10% reduction in total XP and accts stripped of all coin as a thanks

nobody ever mentions it tho, i can't be that old...

[Seducio]

Presentism is seeing the past through the lens of today. Not realizing these very conversations are one of the feedback mechanisms devs use to get in touch and create a better experience over time. P99 has had 15 years to become what it is.

In that time P99 has created a moat around its model compared with other Emu via its enforcement of one box and Anti Cheat. Which is business parlance for a barrier to entry. Other Emu have struggled to compete because of Multi-Boxing choices or poor CSR commitments.

As p99 evolved the p99 player bases expectation also evolved. Quarm is up against quite a bit since p99 has created a high end Old school EQ experience. Satisfying perfectionists might not be the best use of dev time. If the Quarm experience keeps improving over time it'll be much more popular in year 2 and year 3 then at the beginning. Almost like a You Tube channel that grows slow.

[Lune]

Presentism is seeing the past through the lens of today. Not realizing these very conversations are one of the feedback mechanisms devs use to get in touch and create a better experience over time. P99 has had 15 years to become what it is.

In that time P99 has created a moat around its model compared with other Emu via its enforcement of one box and Anti Cheat. Which is business parlance for a barrier to entry. Other Emu have struggled to compete because of Multi-Boxing choices or poor CSR commitments.

As p99 evolved the p99 player bases expectation also evolved. Quarm is up against quite a bit since p99 has created a high end Old school EQ experience. Satisfying perfectionists might not be the best use of dev time. If the Quarm experience keeps improving over time it'll be much more popular in year 2 and year 3 then at the beginning. Almost like a You Tube channel that grows slow.

I'd say this is similar to Secrets' point in the other thread with the added conclusion that in total people on P99 have been tolerant of a lot of ups and downs and kept playing. Few if any of those 'downs' had anything to do with Rogean, Nirgon & crew... rather their underlings.

Look how many people play on TLP's where you can pay real money for experience potions and shit, and buy items with krono. Quarm could do a lot worse. With Oakwynd not being the world's most popular TLP sometimes I wonder what's going to happen if Quarm is 'the' new EQ box. iirc there is a PoP-locked TLP, but that particular server has the burden of yearly TLP releases chipping away at its player base, in addition to the microtransactions and monthly fee. An emu is forever

Look what happened to Nostalrius and every other blockbuster wow pserver

[Trexller]

Yeah you never hear anyone going, "Man I miss depths of darkhollow" or "The new kurns tower is better than the old one" or "It was great killing a level 95 Fippy Darkpaw"

don't even get me started on the Freeport revamp...

PoP was like the last expansion that people get nostalgic about.

[Seducio]

Few if any of those 'downs' had anything to do with Rogean, Nirgon & crew... rather their underlings.

You get it. I think you may be referring to Nilbog though.

[Lune]

Yes lol. typo

[Ekco]

Yeah you never hear anyone going, "Man I miss depths of darkhollow"

dodh was one of the better xpacs, big bad was mayong and the talking items with level progression was kewl.

[tristantio]

Anti-cheat only catches the true boneheads, as it's a technical problem to reliably catch it.

From the project itself:

"ShowEQ or SEQ for short is a program designed to decode the EverQuest data stream and display that information on another computer running the Linux OS in real time. "

No amount of anti-cheat running on a Windows machine (or eqgame.dll host) is going to be able to tell a Linux machine on the same network is running ShowEQ if the network is properly setup - if ShowEQ was listening on a port as a server (I don't think it is) - MAYBE an anti-cheat could do extremely intrusive network port scanning to see if someone's network had this open - but again, a simple firewall rule would totally shut that down.

From what I understand, the anti-cheat's in the past (across various services) are pretty rudimentary (yet very privacy invading) - looking at running process names, scanning browser tab names, scanning file names (maybe the arms-race between anti-cheat and cheaters had a gap closed if they ever scanned for md5sums instead of names, since the bonehead+1 cheaters will at least rename the program).

It's like the p99 box rule - 1 box is the rule, and there are client side measures (sending your PC hostname to p99), server side measures (checking IP), and GM/manual measures (reporting) - yet all 3 are trivially circumvented if someone wants to box by running multiple machines on VPNs (virtual or otherwise) and never having the boxed characters in the same zones as each other.

I agree with Secrets - being overly focused on it is not really productive - infinitely so on the client side checks - that's why on the other thread, I suggest only analysis of behavior in an automated fashion, would catch this - it'd also be capable of catching boxers based on overlapping play time frames. If the server recorded all start/end activity periods for all characters, and noticed tight correlations like "these 3 characters are ALWAYS online at the same time windows for months straight - 3x ban" - vs the simpler checks of only catching IP exemptions that are stupid enough to do the same hostname+same IP at the same time.

Any measure to stop something like SEQ which is FOSS anyways is only temporary - billion dollar companies create DRM that gets circumvented by a 14 year old in their free time - no server to client encryption p99/Quarm/other p-servers push out there is anything more than a temporary blocker.

[Rager and Quitter]

I definitely see where Loramin is coming from. I'm not a cheater, never been a cheater, and never will cheat on anything, as for me it kills the fun (only thing I ever cheated on was D2 solo games with the game editor, and Starcraft 1 with built in codes).

The thing that sucks is that people will cheat. It's inevitable because some people are trash and they'll just do it, and I think you just can't avoid it or prevent it past reasonable measures. Not to mention Secrets, et al have a finite amount of time to spend developing the server, and making sure it works with as few bugs as possible, server stability, etc takes priority over more stringent anti-cheat than already exists. It would be nice if we could do all the things all the time, but alas.

I appreciate the effort on the server as it takes me no more effort than to simply log in and play. I often feel guilty for having such a good time reliving old EQ days for free (although I have donated to the server in the past) without any effort on my part, so I try to give as much grace as I can, and I'm super excited to play again.

If only we could burn cheaters characters in the middle of PoK before their bans.

[aussenseiter]

I often feel guilty for having such a good time reliving old EQ days for free

If only we could burn cheaters characters in the middle of PoK before their bans.

Party on their corpse as the rot timer expires when they get banned. 🥳🎉

[Trexller]

Why not keep a public list of players who are perma-banned for cheating or whatever reason

so that the community can name and shame

[magnetaress]

Why not keep a public list of players who are perma-banned for cheating or whatever reason

so that the community can name and shame

And their forum handles and alts.

[Trexller]

And their forum handles and alts.

Right

if people know they are gonna be publicly named for their bad actions, they are gonna be less likely to cheat

and if people know who they are, they aren't going to be able to just re-roll a fresh reputation

[Aviatta_01]

Tried the client. The mouselook was so jittery/laggy and uneven that I had to quit out after trying a few possible solutions. Gave me some decent eyestrain. Hope it's fixed somehow as this is absolutely a deal breaker.

[aussenseiter]

Tried the client. The mouselook was so jittery/laggy and uneven that I had to quit out after trying a few possible solutions. Gave me some decent eyestrain. Hope it's fixed somehow as this is absolutely a deal breaker.

I haven't installed the Quarm patch file yet.

I think you're saying it's not improved at all or enough over the TAKP F9 x2 zoomout?

[Jimjam]

The best anti cheat will be to reduce the useful info that is sent to the client. Secrets arvises this is already implemented. This could be leveraged further by sending false info that only showeq users would pick up: e.g send location updates for fake cloaked quillmanes that don’t actually appear in game.

[Seducio]

Re: the client.

p1999 client = Titanium + mods
PQ client = TAKP client + mods = EQMac client updated + mods

This should temper everyone's expectations regarding initial Project Quarm population. For many the PQ client will be a downgrade from the experience of what p99 currently offers although it would be an upgrade from what live was at the time classic released.

P99 Titanium client is really something special. Folks love it despite its non-classicness. Devs done a great job with it modifying it to 'feel right' and in era. Possibly one of p1999's best open secret weapons. You won't find code for p99's client on github like you can with TAKP.

[Rager and Quitter]

I played on TAKP for a little while a couple times here and there and never had any issue with the client.

What are the major differences between the current TAKP client and what Quarm will be using?

I'm one of those weird people that spends the vast majority of my EQ time in first person even on P99, but I bounce out with mouse scroll to check surroundings and whatnot.

[drackgon]

I for one, am greatly looking forward to this. I truly appreciate them bringing this to us. It probably will have issues, and growing pains, just like p99. But I am down to enjoy the ride.
I've done Shards,Takp,p99, and Wayfarer's Haven. P99 is by far the best, that I've enjoyed.

Big things that makes it make or break for me will be.

Boxing-This is what turned me off from Shards and Wayfarers. It just kills the fun for me, I play to play with others. End of story.

QoL-I am not a has to be 1000% like it was in classic, I am fine with minor QoL changes, and seems Secrets and team has that in mind.

CSR- I don't have the long history of blue/red GMs. Can only say, good CSRs are vital for any server, hopefully Quarms team is all about my next item. (Wayfarers had the best)

Community- all EQ servers I've played on. Wayfarers, crapped all over the others. Which I believed stemmed from CSR's who didnt take BS from cancerous players. Players who caused issues, seem to been banned hammered quickly. This left generally super friendly, helpful, and less backstabby people on server. This server had the best community, that felt more like classic EQ on Erollisi Marr then P99

Raiding- So far though the rules have changed a little. I believe Secrets rotation style raiding scene is the best. Once into Luclin, PoP. There wont be an issue. But p99 can easily show how little content, that's a bottle neck is rough. (cough greens fear release into Thanos snap)

Classic- At first I didn't think it was going to be as classic as we wanted. But their spending the effort to make it that way. Ie legacy stuff, Hybrid exp penalty. I hope to keep seeing more and more. This just takes tons of effort.

[Aviatta_01]

I haven't installed the Quarm patch file yet.

I think you're saying it's not improved at all or enough over the TAKP F9 x2 zoomout?

I didn't notice a big difference, but I won't be playing at all on takp, because this Quarm idea is what I have been waiting for with classic to PoP. This excitement abated immediately as soon as I logged in. The game play experience is so much better in P99 in regards to smoothness of mouse look and lack of latency. When you move the mouse to look around there is a few hundred ms of lag to the look response.

Scrolling out and playing from third person is also broken for me as I can't really get full control of the camera and it moves in very unusual ways.

I was very sad to discover this, and I hope there is a way to fix it. Drastically different from P99.

[Lune]

I didn't notice a big difference, but I won't be playing at all on takp, because this Quarm idea is what I have been waiting for with classic to PoP. This excitement abated immediately as soon as I logged in. The game play experience is so much better in P99 in regards to smoothness of mouse look and lack of latency. When you move the mouse to look around there is a few hundred ms of lag to the look response.

Scrolling out and playing from third person is also broken for me as I can't really get full control of the camera and it moves in very unusual ways.

I was very sad to discover this, and I hope there is a way to fix it. Drastically different from P99.

Back when I first started on P99 in 2011 I had very similar issues, which were fixed by using WinEQ2.0 to load the game. Is there really no similar solution such as WinEQ2.0 or configuring hardware settings to smooth out TAKP client?

[Secrets]

But let's run with that plan of waiting to see how bad the cheating is before you address it. Just one other simple question then: how are you going to know whether you have a cheating problem or not?

Again, the whole core problem is that these cheaters aren't detectable.

People are social creatures. In my opinion, we'll know very quickly because those who brag are loud and bolsterous. Just the other day I had someone come in my stream and say "Yeah, I fucking cheat. I'm going to be using it here too as I did on P99." and while I have no way of verifying they did, I'm going to put people like that under higher scrutiny, and their guildmembers will also put them under higher scrutiny if they know the risk if them getting banned or their guild disbanded over a few rotten eggs.

Personally, I'd take direct admissions with enough context to remove someone, outside of the other detections - provided we have enough facts to act on. That doesn't mean you'll be banned for saying 'im 12 and what is this' for being underage, it means that there's context and some sort of legitimacy to the claim that results in the action.

This is exactly how P99 operates right now, by the way - the fear is prevalent for getting banned, and it only took Rogean & co a few banwaves before people shaped up and subsequently accused him of malware claims as a last-ditch effort to get people to stop playing, because 'if they can't, no one else should be able to'.

There's a human psychology element to this, of course. But also, P99 can't detect SEQ any more than Quarm would be able to, in theory that you're describing.

They can, though, for stuff running local like MySEQ. And they have banned for that here, I'd assume.

[Seducio]

Project Quarm is something I am excited about. In lieu of Green 2.0 it is the closest we'll get to a classic experience until Green 2.0 comes out. At which point Quarm will most likely be in a different expansion. Assuming Secrets maintains the 9 month expansion release schedule this appears to be a tentative timeline that players could expect. (Subject to change prior to launch.)

10-1-2023 Project Quarm launches
1-1-2024 Legacy Items removed
7-1-2024 Kunark Launches
4-1-2025 Velious Lauches
1-1-2026 Luclin Launches
10-1-2026 PoP Launches

I predict that many P99ers that try Project Quarm will have some issues with the client. Mousewheel and the camera are very smooth on the Titanium client. P99ers have grown accustomed to this. On the Project Quarm it is a not quite as smooth. It's an special add on to the EQMac client that TAKP doesn't have. It isn't quite as robust as P99's mousewheel as that came built into Titanium, which was from many years after Velious was released.

There are a few fixes that help with Project Quarms mousewheel, but none make it quite as good as p99. One fix is to limit the fps to 60, 45, or eve 30 rather than unlimited. Another fix is to Invert Y axis in options. The last fix is to use /inspect off to turn off inspecting yourself. These three will help you get closer to a p99 experience although it won't be the same. Secrets has said this might get looked at for improvement down the line, but it currently isn't a priority compared with other tasks to get the server going.

P99ers that can get over the client differences will be able to relive a Classic like experience in one months time. Then starting Jan 1st 2026 PQ will release Luclin followed by PoP later in the year further separating it philosophy wise from other one box EMU like p99.

[Evia]

crazy to think we will have to wait until 2026 before we get to taste luclin

[Seducio]

TAKP is a great place to check out Luclin in the meantime.

[loramin]

But also, P99 can't detect SEQ any more than Quarm would be able to, in theory that you're describing.

Yeah, I forgot ShowEQ didn't have to be on the same machine ... and probably wouldn't be, unless you're a weirdo like me who plays EQ on Linux.

I still don't buy that all (or even most) cheaters will be dumb enough to out themselves, but you're right that some ShowEQ usage is just unavoidable, for any EQEmu server. The only real solution is to limit data sent by the server.

(As an aside, I'm very curious about how much the server can limit data sent to the client, and how much "ShowEQ data" has to be sent, just because of how the EQ client works.)

Anyhow, FWIW I'm now fully convinced Quarm is in good hands in terms of anti-cheating ... even without an invasive anti-cheat. Thank you Secrets for taking the time to engage and explain it all :)

[Vexenu]

I really wish they'd consider just leaving the legacy items out from the beginning. The toxic behavior those camps inevitably encourage just isn't worth it, especially in the crucial early months of the server's life. Plus, it's really not classic seeing so many people running around with them anyway. No one NEEDS a Guise or a Manastone to play EQ. But a lot of people apparently think they do, and almost 100% of those people are guaranteed to be complete assholes, and are definitely not the sort of players you want to cater toward.

The necessity of /list on Green should be instructive. It was a solid creative effort by the Devs to avoid a completely unmanageable, toxic fiasco at those camps on a daily basis, but it still had a ton of drawbacks and encouraged a lot of really unhealthy behavior. Given that the stated goal of Quarm leans toward quality of life over strict, diabolical adherence to What's Classic™, this seems like the sort of change that a lot of people would actually appreciate.

[Lune]

PQ should be 9 months classic, 9 months kunark, 9 months velious, 2-3 years Luclin, eternal PoP.

Something about years and years of Kunark on P99 was just great. Think it gave people time to enjoy the journey, level a couple chars, raid, gear up etc without feeling like it was all going to be obsolete in a few months.

[Seducio]

I really wish they'd consider just leaving the legacy items out from the beginning. The toxic behavior those camps inevitably encourage just isn't worth it, especially in the crucial early months of the server's life. Plus, it's really not classic seeing so many people running around with them anyway. No one NEEDS a Guise or a Manastone to play EQ. But a lot of people apparently think they do, and almost 100% of those people are guaranteed to be complete assholes, and are definitely not the sort of players you want to cater toward.

The necessity of /list on Green should be instructive. It was a solid creative effort by the Devs to avoid a completely unmanageable, toxic fiasco at those camps on a daily basis, but it still had a ton of drawbacks and encouraged a lot of really unhealthy behavior. Given that the stated goal of Quarm leans toward quality of life over strict, diabolical adherence to What's Classic™, this seems like the sort of change that a lot of people would actually appreciate.

I don't really get this perspective. If I were you and had this mindset yet still wanted to play classic it would mean I could go everywhere except these three camps: drelzna, EE, and ass/sup during the first three months of the server life and avoid the exact types of players I don't like. As long as you pick up jboots in oot after Month 4 and don't need a stone or a guise then everyone wins.

Almost as if the devs were looking out for casuals who didn't care about legacy items by creating a magnetic effect to certains camps/parts of the game you could purposefully avoid.

Those who want to weather legacy item camps can and those that want to avoid that drama can be rest assured most of those willing to fight for the legacy items are tied up for the first 3 months.

[Seducio]

Also who doesn't love that super rare random Box of Abu-kar drop off any mob over level 35.

[Vexenu]

I don't really get this perspective. If I were you and had this mindset yet still wanted to play classic it would mean I could go everywhere except these three camps: drelzna, EE, and ass/sup during the first three months of the server life and avoid the exact types of players I don't like. As long as you pick up jboots in oot after Month 4 and don't need a stone or a guise then everyone wins.

Almost as if the devs were looking out for casuals who didn't care about legacy items by creating a magnetic effect to certains camps/parts of the game you could purposefully avoid.

Those who want to weather legacy item camps can and those that want to avoid that drama can be rest assured most of those willing to fight for the legacy items are tied up for the first 3 months.

The problem is that everyone wants these items, because they are objectively powerful, and so will try to obtain them if they are available. But their very existence creates a perverse incentive, because their strictly limited droppable timeline creates an artificial scarcity that encourages toxic player behavior. On Green you had people staying awake for days at time, sharing accounts or using third-party programs to remain on the list. And in the absence of a feature like /list on Quarm, the competition will be even more brutal, and play behavior will be commensurately more toxic. This not only creates a miserable server environment for players, it necessitates extensive GM intervention, both of which are highly undesirable outcomes.

When you dangle a very desirable reward in front of people, they will invariably be tempted to go after it, even if by doing so they are forced to engage in behavior they would otherwise find objectionable, or perhaps even unthinkable. For an example of this phenomenon, remember the show 'Fear Factor'? Yeah. The same psychology that drives someone to eat a plateful of cockroaches for a chance at winning $50,000 also underlies their desire to spend 45 straight hours camping a Manastone, or (in the absence of a list) KSing or training other players to steal one. It is simply human nature: when the reward is attractive enough and seemingly just within our reach, we'll do just about anything to obtain it.

The only ways to avoid the disruption caused by legacy items is to either 1) leave them in the game indefinitely, or 2) remove them entirely. The former would create an environment that is completely unclassic, as literally everyone would be running around with Guises and Manastones. But the latter would create an environment that is actually much closer to the EQ that most people played, where legacy items were very rare. This is why I view it as the best option. Frankly, there is no ideal solution to the problem of legacy items. But if they were to be left in-game and not removed entirely, I think a good compromise would be simply adding them to the Naggy/Vox loot table as rare drops. This would maintain a high level of scarcity on these items (preserving both their value and the classic feel) while removing the artificial time limit constraints on them (which largely removes the toxicity they create at their respective camps).

[Evia]

is it really eq tho without legacy items? they almost go hand in hand at this point
trying to obtain one of the legacy items before they stop dropping is part of the new server thrill

if I were playing and someone told me manastones or guises didnt exist on the server i'd probably control +s into control +x because this server is apparently not playing real everquest

[Seducio]

The problem is that everyone wants these items, because they are objectively powerful, and so will try to obtain them if they are available.

Everyone? So many assumptions here. Incredibly uncompelling way to look at things. With solutions to imagined problems that look like you are considering a different custom server altogether and not what Secrets has in mind.

First off assuming PQ's population will be like Green's is probably more of a goal than a given. PQ would be very happy if that happens. The odds are it won't be THAT successful. At first anyhow. Over time who knows.

If you as a human want to avoid the 'disruption of camping highly desirable items' as you called it. You can literally avoid those camps. This is a choice as single human with his own decision making capacity (in theory anyhow) that you can make. Why create rules for others on a camp that you don't like participating in. Literally pretend they don't exist it won't change the way you play the game.

I'll call BS on the fact that these items are that great in the long run on a PoP server.
It's mostly epeen in the long run. Eventually adults outgrow caring about epeen.

[Vexenu]

Everyone? So many assumptions here. Incredibly uncompelling way to look at things. With solutions to imagined problems that look like you are considering a different custom server altogether and not what Secrets has in mind.
Yes, everyone. What is so controversial about that statement? Everyone who plays EQ on a new server would WANT a Manastone/Guise. The only question is do they want one badly enough to go to the trouble of navigating through the gauntlet of toxicity to obtain one, often at the cost of their health (both mental and physical) or by breaking server rules. And obviously, what Secrets decides to do is up to him. I'm just offering my opinion, which is worth exactly what you paid to read it.


First off assuming PQ's population will be like Green's is probably more of a goal than a given. PQ would be very happy if that happens. The odds are it won't be THAT successful. At first anyhow. Over time who knows. This is true. A relatively low starting population would go a long way toward reducing the innate toxicity of limited legacy item availability. Hard to say what Quarm's starting pop will be, although realistically it will probably (hopefully, honestly) be much lower than Green's.

If you as a human want to avoid the 'disruption of camping highly desirable items' as you called it. You can literally avoid those camps. This is a choice as single human with his own decision making capacity (in theory anyhow) that you can make. Why create rules for others on a camp that you don't like participating in. Literally pretend they don't exist it won't change the way you play the game.
This is also true, but I'm not thinking about how to maximize my personal enjoyment (or yours, for the matter, or any individual player's) by offering this suggestion, I'm thinking about what's best for the overall playerbase, devs and GMs.


I'll call BS on the fact that these items are that great in the long run on a PoP server.
It's mostly epeen in the long run. Eventually adults outgrow caring about epeen.
If they're ultimately useless, why have them in-game in the first place? And surely you've been around here long enough to know that a certain sort of player never outgrows the desire to show off their e-peen. And these are the exactly the sort who go out of their way to turn legacy item camps into toxic shitholes, creating a terrible server environment and demanding an inordinate amount of GM resources.

[Seducio]

If they're ultimately useless, why have them in-game in the first place? And surely you've been around here long enough to know that a certain sort of player never outgrows the desire to show off their e-peen. And these are the exactly the sort who go out of their way to turn legacy item camps into toxic shitholes, creating a terrible server environment and demanding an inordinate amount of GM resources.

So the reason they are in is because its a progression server. Old school EQ players like them. But ya by the end of server life none will be that useful with the exception of Box of Abu-kar. Each expansion has similar legacy item situations. Like pre-nerf Fungi staff in Kunark. I like that Quarm will have these items in for a short time-limited manner similar to how Live did back in the day.

Here is how classic legacy items go obsolete:

In PoP Enchanters get Project Illusion makes Guise obsolete.

Manastone's usefulness diminishes with each passing expansion and by the time Luclin and PoP drop you are almost never in the old world except for Epics maybe. They aren't nearly as useful as anyone claims. Trust me displaying them is to artificially inflate the price to sell them.

Rubicite is simply fashion but really struggles to be anything but that after Classic and maybe Kunark.

Jboots goes from very overcrowded dungeon camp to overcrowded oot camp. But by the time AAs come out Run 3 makes jboots obsolete.


Lastly I am mostly unconcerned about folks that cant stop display their epeen. If it gets too bad there is always the ignore function. Usually though it's not too different from that guy on your block that spends extra time on the weekend detailing his Tesla on his front driveway for all the neighborhood to see. As in some folks like to brag or humble brag based on their perceived successes. Why? Who know validation from the community I suppose.

[Rager and Quitter]

I'm totally cool being that player that never cared about manastones or guises. Just wasn't my thing. I haven't been able to play for more than 2 hours straight in nearly a decade with family, work, and hobbies, so my opinion on the matter is irrelevant, but I will say making all those items no drop would do a lot to solve the issues around the toxicity. If people can't make plat/RMT off them, I doubt they'll care as much.

[Trexller]

yeah make mana stone and beads no-drop

[magnetaress]

Re: the client.

p1999 client = Titanium + mods
PQ client = TAKP client + mods = EQMac client updated + mods

This should temper everyone's expectations regarding initial Project Quarm population. For many the PQ client will be a downgrade from the experience of what p99 currently offers although it would be an upgrade from what live was at the time classic released.

P99 Titanium client is really something special. Folks love it despite its non-classicness. Devs done a great job with it modifying it to 'feel right' and in era. Possibly one of p1999's best open secret weapons. You won't find code for p99's client on github like you can with TAKP.

You're fooling urself if u think titanium and p99 feels in era and classic.

They got a lot of little things right here. They got oh so many absolutely wrong and in glaringly bad ways.

[Seducio]

Don't be silly.

P99 has shifted everyone's expectation of 'classic.' People want the Titanium client because it is better than what folks had back during live not because it is accurate. Mousewheel was not in era for Velious and wasn't even for PoP for that matter. That and other Titanium client QoL def was not in era. Folks would probably like TAKP way better if they wanted an in era client.

So ya it's about 'feel'. Folks here prefer the feel of Titanium client rather than an era accurate client. And p99 devs got the 'feel' right to such an extent that Old school EQ players prefer the way p99 client does classic rather than to how live actually was.

P99 evolved the player bases expectation of what classic is.

[Trexller]

mouse wheel not classic

[Aviatta_01]

Yeah, just wanted to add another "thank you" to Secrets for doing this project. I don't mean to be a downer with the mouselook/third person latency issues. I hope it is something you can resolve because I see it as a very limiting factor for players esp those migrating from P99. For me it was an eyestrain issue. I hope you can get as many of them as possible to start a great community.

[Evia]

I'm glad I dont use mouse look so its not a problem for me.
I just f9 twice, tap delete a bit to pull the camera back, then angle it a bit better with alt + page up and page down until the camera sits nicely behind my character. Sometimes its a bit rough to see whats behind me but i've learned to deal with it by rotating around with strafe in those situations.


and yes, big shout out to Secrets for doing this project. glad someone decided to do it! looking forward to it!

[Trexller]

what about strafe? on titanium you can bind it to any key

but on takp you gotta ctrl+L/R to strafe

can secrets make strafe a bindable key?

[Solist]

I wanna know how many people will get pinged for SEQ on PQ while then loading p99 after.

[Caillou]

You don't get pinged for SEQ. It either works trivially or it does not.

Like I seriously doubt 99% of players would ever cheat, even if it was trivial. However, what sets p99 above most other emu is that it is not trivial. So, you can either get on that level or you can be an upstart scrub.

[Byrjun]

The game play experience is so much better in P99 in regards to smoothness of mouse look and lack of latency. When you move the mouse to look around there is a few hundred ms of lag to the look response.

The client definitely feels a bit jank compared to what people are used to from more modern clients like P99's.

For me it got a lot more manageable after using it for a few hours. Personally I just use first person more often. I also rebound the F9 camera select so I could more easily see around my character while medding.

What's not being mentioned however are the client improvements over P99. The lighting is better and more accurate. The sound/music is better. Elements like name tags are more classic.

Secrets has also said that he's still working on the camera but it might not be improved before launch. He's open sourced the DLL and other people are encouraged to make improvements to it in the meantime.

Regarding cheating, I find it a bit strange that this is being discussed so much here. Every EQ server you've played on has had cheating, including P99. It's unfortunately just been part of the game since the very beginning. But it seems that Secrets will be just as effective at detecting and removing cheaters as P99 is, so I'm not sure why there's so much skepticism here.

crazy to think we will have to wait until 2026 before we get to taste luclin

Yeah this is probably my biggest concern with the server. 2.25 years for Luclin release is rough. We've had 14 years of Vanilla->Velious content on P99.

Another concern I have is with the database. P99 was successful because a lot of work was put into the database before the server launched which made the server feel special compared to other projects. Quarm feels mostly like a PEQ clone and there's already been a lot of low pop PEQ clones. I'd really like to see a lot more people playing on the server and submitting database reports to the Discord.

[loramin]

Regarding cheating, I find it a bit strange that this is being discussed so much here. Every EQ server you've played on has had cheating, including P99.

P99 has anti-cheat code built-in; Quarm doesn't. That was the reasons for the discussion.

[Penish]

literally 90% of players here use mq / showeq or box

quarm will be the same, who cares & enjoy the ride

also before the retards swarm saying NAWUH, fucking look around for 5min

(see u on the new box folks)

[Jimjam]

P99 has anti-cheat code built-in; Quarm doesn't. That was the reasons for the discussion.

Also people were misrepresenting the server as being actively cheat friendly.

[Byrjun]

P99 has anti-cheat code built-in; Quarm doesn't. That was the reasons for the discussion.

Scanning your PC for names of processes only stops the people who aren't smart enough to rename those processes.

Quarm having different methods of anti-cheat (which might even be more effective) does not mean there's no anti-cheat.

[Seducio]

Interview with Secrets by Octavian (streamer) - nearly two hours long

Tons of Q&A on new server.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1914669025
Interview starts at 01:39:45

Stress test today 9/2 at 3pm EST

>>
Secrets — 08/31/2023 7:01 AM
We'll be using every character in the tests for reservations, and they'll be granted by time you spend on those characters.

We are doing this in a way that I'll take a cohort of time played on beta for any names reserved there and the stress test characters will be their own cohort

Secrets — 08/26/2023 8:49 PM
Name reservations are a beta testing reward based on played time
>>

[loramin]

Quarm having different methods of anti-cheat (which might even be more effective) does not mean there's no anti-cheat.

In other contexts, the term "anti-cheat" could mean any sort of anti-cheating mechanism, eg. human GMs observing cheaters and punishing them.

In this context, "anti-cheat" was specifically referring to embedded anti-cheat software, and Secrets has made it clear Quarm will not have that. That was what was being discussed, not a complete lack of anti-cheating mechanisms whatsoever (and indeed, Secrets entire point was that there was other ways to catch cheaters besides "anti-cheat" software).

[Trexller]

is it possible that Secrets already has an anti cheat system he is not disclosing, so that people don't know how to beat it.

he already said they were gonna, "wait and see what people do"

[Seducio]

Regarding future improvements to mouselook and camera smoothness:

>>
Secrets — Today at 11:27 AM
I will likely be redoing the dll in those clients soon enough to fix input / mouselook issues
Also, dgvoodoo causes a lot of crash issues imo. So I may look into removing it

GamingMendicant — Today at 11:28 AM
Have you figured out how to make it smooth?
I can't really use 3rd person unless I don't touch the mouse from the jittering
Makes my eyes cross lol

Mars — Today at 11:29 AM
Its not smooth yet

Secrets — Today at 11:29 AM
I know why it's janky and it didn't use to be like this

Mars — Today at 11:29 AM
P99 has made you all soft

Secrets — Today at 11:29 AM
Like when we first did the eqmac windows hack, this didn't happen

GamingMendicant — Today at 11:29 AM
Lol, I went back to P99 during the great shutdown of 2023 and it was smooth as butter

Secrets — Today at 11:29 AM
Actually I'm curious if it happens more frequent with d3d8.dll out of the folder

Knome — Today at 11:30 AM
like remove the file?

Secrets — Today at 11:33 AM
yeah, and set fps limit to 60
you can also type /rfps ingame to reset the fps limit

Secrets — Today at 11:37 AM
basically need to fix signed int __usercall CEverQuest::procMouse@<eax>(long double a1@<st0>, CEverQuest *this, int a3)
that's the crux of where it goes wrong

Baggy — Today at 11:39 AM
Is that client or server side?

Secrets — Today at 11:43 AM
client

Mars — Today at 11:43 AM
Is it sending an update everytime the mouselook goes
is that why it lags?

Secrets — Today at 11:43 AM
sort of. it uses interpolated dinput mouse data
but not like the modern clients

Secrets — Today at 11:44 AM
it basically pulls the camera multiple units every frame as opposed to smoothing them

Mars — Today at 11:44 AM
Makes sense. But its strictly client side and not spamming the network with updates?

Secrets — Today at 11:46 AM
No. It's not anyway related to netcode

Mars — Today at 11:46 AM
ok got it

Secrets — Today at 11:46 AM
Strafing actually sends more netcode updates, because of how it works
But not mouselook
>>

[Trexller]

Secrets — Today at 11:46 AM
Strafing actually sends more netcode updates, because of how it works
But not mouselook
>>

does this mean they can't make strafe bindable?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Secrets always keeping the fire burning. This is a good place.

[Aviatta_01]

Regarding future improvements to mouselook and camera smoothness:

>>
Secrets — Today at 11:27 AM
I will likely be redoing the dll in those clients soon enough to fix input / mouselook issues

Excellent

[Swish]

P99 has anti-cheat code built-in; Quarm doesn't. That was the reasons for the discussion.

P99 "hacking".mp3

https://agathascience.ytmnd.com/

[magnetaress]

yall are sad just give secrets ur wierd shit

[Trexller]

Secrets just fixed mousewheel zoom.

WhT will you losers complain about now?

strafe isn't bindable on the takp client

[Rager and Quitter]

strafe isn't bindable on the takp client

Strafing? What are you, some kind of bard?

[Homesteaded]

Secrets just fixed mousewheel zoom.

WhT will you losers complain about now?

Garbage client still there. Pets taking 75% exp, bard AE songs capped at four.

This server was looking cool.

[Trexller]

Strafing? What are you, some kind of bard?

no i just strafe alot and takp client requires you to ctrl+left/right to strafe, whereas it's bindable on titanium

Garbage client still there. Pets taking 75% exp, bard AE songs capped at four.

This server was looking cool.

on takp you only need to do 1 dmg to get full xp with a pet

did secrets change this?

[Swish]

If I'm honest I think the longevity of the server is my concern. P99 and TAKP (and SoD) are the ones that have stood the test of time so far.

IF we get a new green server I think it'll end up as the next P2002. I hope I'm wrong as it looks like its gonna be fun.

[Homesteaded]

no i just strafe alot and takp client requires you to ctrl+left/right to strafe, whereas it's bindable on titanium



on takp you only need to do 1 dmg to get full xp with a pet

did secrets change this?

Sounds like on launch pets will steal 75% exp if they out damage, this is also in play for grouping. According to what I read there.

[Yemic]

Sounds like on launch pets will steal 75% exp if they out damage, this is also in play for grouping. According to what I read there.

that was never implemented it was just code to show how it would work, what was placed today with update was if pets in a group do more than 50% they get a divided a cut as if they were an extra group member, or 50% of exp if solo.

[Trexller]

that was never implemented it was just code to show how it would work, what was placed today with update was if pets in a group do more than 50% they get a divided a cut as if they were an extra group member, or 50% of exp if solo.

things like this are actively reducing reasons to play quarm

if it's gonna mirror p99, people will just remain on p99

[Kurtanius21]

I just want to play a beastlord, on a somewhat populated server similar to p99. I hope it works out.

[Evia]

strafe isn't bindable on the takp client

this actually is my only issue with quarm/takp so far. I strafe A LOT. it's like how I move my character lol. so it's quite frustrating when I go to strafe and nothing happens. Can I live with it? yeah. but it still is annoying.

[Trexller]

this actually is my only issue with quarm/takp so far. I strafe A LOT. it's like how I move my character lol. so it's quite frustrating when I go to strafe and nothing happens. Can I live with it? yeah. but it still is annoying.

ctrl+left/right is worse than star wars episode 4

[Yemic]

you can just hold right mouse button down to strafe with a or d

[Solist]

you can just hold right mouse button down to strafe with a or d

Thats not how you win races, or kite mobs, or be sure of tags.

[Byrjun]

things like this are actively reducing reasons to play quarm

if it's gonna mirror p99, people will just remain on p99

Yeah it's been getting a bit weird lately. Originally it seemed that the idea behind the server was classic EQ with some tweaks to make the game more fun, but that seems to be getting peeled back.

For example, no hybrid exp penalty is a great change because exp penalties are a terrible way to try to balance the game. So then why now nerf pet class exp by 75%? The justification is that Enchanter charm is too strong, but screwing over 3 other classes (which aren't even particularly strong classes) in the process just makes zero sense.

[Yemic]

So then why now nerf pet class exp by 75%? The justification is that Enchanter charm is too strong, but screwing over 3 other classes (which aren't even particularly strong classes) in the process just makes zero sense.

This is not the case though, its 50 if solo, or a split as group member if more than 50% of group damage

[Byrjun]

This is not the case though, its 50 if solo, or a split as group member if more than 50% of group damage

It was originally 75%, I guess it was changed to 50% a couple days ago, but none of this matters because the entire idea is bad and nonsensical.

[Seducio]

Beta changes gonna happen in beta. I expect some smaller changes will occur even after launch. Folks may misremember how much p1999 has changed over the course of its lifetime. The only constant is change afterall.

For those worried about all the changes, it might be best to wait until near the end of the month when Secrets makes the final announcement of Launch with finalized ruleset.

For those that want to have input in those changes. Involvement in beta, play time with feedback, and good faith correspondence on Discord is getting dev responsiveness. They are listening.

[Byrjun]

Involvement in beta, play time with feedback, and good faith correspondence on Discord is getting dev responsiveness. They are listening.

Except on this one particular issue.

[Torven]

One man's idea of bad and nonsensical differs from another man's idea of bad and nonsensical.

Personally I think it's nonsensical to want to play classic EQ and also demand a bunch of modern features in it.

I think it's nonsensical to have warriors getting the same exp as hybrids when classic warriors are abjectly terrible and the worst class in the 1-50 game.

I think it's nonsensical to put in mid-Luclin pet exp rules when charm is already the most OP thing in the game, many players make mages just to race to the level cap and necros solo group content like the lord room and fear mobs.

To me, your ideas are nonsensical.

[Byrjun]

Personally I think it's nonsensical to want to play classic EQ and also demand a bunch of modern features in it.

Considering the work that Secrets has put into custom QOL stuff like third person mousewheel I have a feeling that most people who are interested in this server would disagree with you.

I think it's nonsensical to have warriors getting the same exp as hybrids when classic warriors are abjectly terrible and the worst class in the 1-50 game.

If you hyper focus on a specific segment of the game you could consider a lot of different classes as being terrible. Sure, warriors aren't so great while leveling 1-50, but they're still #1 in HP and mitigation and will end up main tanking 99% of raid content even in the vanilla game. They're nowhere near terrible in classic, and they keep getting better with each expansion.

I think it's nonsensical to put in mid-Luclin pet exp rules when charm is already the most OP thing in the game

If Enchanter charm is the problem being targeted here, then why not target Enchanter charm specifically? Why is the solution to charm being too strong to nerf the exp of 3 other completely unrelated classes? And do you realize that this actually ends up affecting Enchanters the least since they can just break charm at low HP and nuke the mob to get full exp? There's no logic here.

I've said this before but stealing experience is literally the worst way to handle any sort of balancing issue. It affects who gets invited to groups (and probably not in a way that you expect, its hurts melee characters in certain situations), and also promotes people watching parsers to micromanage DPS output instead of just playing the game. While soloing it feels super bad to lose half exp just because a spell got resisted etc. There's a bunch of really obvious reasons why this is a bad mechanic, that's what I mean by nonsensical.

[Steinuh]

Sounds amazing! Are you married to PoP as the end of life or would you consider Gates and/or Omens if the server voted for it?

I love PoP era but Omens era is almost as awesome imo.

I just giggled at that interaction. Hey fren.

[aussenseiter]

Where are my buff timers?
Pending a patch.

GIEV DOT DAMAGE NOW

[Zweibierbitte]

Yeah, I disagree with Torven on modern QoL features. I don't care about having a "classic experience"... I want to have a fun experience. If I want to play something in the classic spirit, I'd play p99. I quit p99 specifically because QoL was being taken away.

While the current pet XP situation is better than when it was 75% I still don't like it. I'm gonna give the server a try, but if the solution to everything is the nerf bat I may not stay long. For me, the gameplay of EQ is boring and the fun comes from the social interactions that come with it. If any balancing is to be done, I'd prefer it to be done in the spirit of making things more fun and fast instead of slow things down like nerfing pets is doing.

[Jimjam]

Well, p99 is meant to be a museum piece, like experimental archaeology experiment to recreate what was. I can see why people are sticklers for classic here.

I don’t think Quarm is trying to achieve that so can be excused to make some fun/qol concessions.

When does quarm start and where is the patch?

[Geek.Verve]

The biggest problem I've had with P99 is the fact that its intent was to replicate "classic EQ" for the most part, broken bits and all. While I can't speak for everyone, I can't imagine most P99 players wanted things like pets not persisting across zone lines, basic loot items not stacking in your inventory, no buff timers or DoT messages, etc.

What I've always wanted to see is classic EQ with sensible QoL features included. This seems to be as close as anyone has come to that, and I'm psyched.

[Byrjun]

Well, p99 is meant to be a museum piece, like experimental archaeology experiment to recreate what was. I can see why people are sticklers for classic here.

And the "classic museum" concept never works out because it's fundamentally a bad idea. Even P99 developers have made custom changes to fit their own preferences, ie. reversing the boat route through Ocean of Tears, quest exp nerfs, etc.

[Seducio]

When does quarm start and where is the patch?

Server starts Oct 1st. In beta currently. Project Quarm uses TAKP client which can be downloaded at TAKP website. OP has link to discord for Project Quarm patch DLL file to add to downloaded TAKP client folder to enable being able to log in to Project Quarm on TAKP login server.

[Trexller]

Server starts Oct 1st. In beta currently. Project Quarm uses TAKP client which can be downloaded at TAKP website. OP has link to discord for Project Quarm patch DLL file to add to downloaded TAKP client folder to enable being able to log in to Project Quarm on TAKP login server.

so they haven't made a website yet or a wiki?

now it feels like they are kinda phoning this in

project seemed to start strong, people liked TAKP, but didn't like the boxing. Quarm promised single box takp, and now are basically re-writing it so that the 1 box takp plays like p99.

plus with all the nerfs to what everyone loved about the takp server, buffed xp, no pet xp losses, etc

channeling and resist mechanics actually work right on takp so that whole OP enchanter argument is moot.

im growing a strong feeling of 'meh'

[Secrets]

so they haven't made a website yet or a wiki?

now it feels like they are kinda phoning this in

project seemed to start strong, people liked TAKP, but didn't like the boxing. Quarm promised single box takp, and now are basically re-writing it so that the 1 box takp plays like p99.

plus with all the nerfs to what everyone loved about the takp server, buffed xp, no pet xp losses, etc

channeling and resist mechanics actually work right on takp so that whole OP enchanter argument is moot.

im growing a strong feeling of 'meh'

We'll have a website up soon. Have someone making one currently. It'll be a landing page and a link to the discord / getting started / client custom files patch a-la p99.
Forums are an outdated medium and I don't intend to have one. Wikis should be community-run, as should the reddit, as those are community-hosted resources.
The DB is open source, so I imagine somone will make an alla clone with our data.

So, actually, starting Luclin we'll have the buffed xp. Most of the mechanics like pet xp loss will be gone in Luclin as they'll be not relevant anymore.
Luclin is when the game started to revamp the new player experience significantly which included stuff like partial resist changes, removal of the 1.25x or six level rule, lull changes, focus effects, etc...

So, initially, yes - the game will function more like P99. But over time, the QOL will return as expansions are unlocked, which will actually serve as the new-player the catchup mechanic that the devs decided on in Luclin/PoP.

There's a method to the madness, not just changes for the sake of changing them.

[Secrets]

Yeah, I disagree with Torven on modern QoL features. I don't care about having a "classic experience"... I want to have a fun experience. If I want to play something in the classic spirit, I'd play p99. I quit p99 specifically because QoL was being taken away.

While the current pet XP situation is better than when it was 75% I still don't like it. I'm gonna give the server a try, but if the solution to everything is the nerf bat I may not stay long. For me, the gameplay of EQ is boring and the fun comes from the social interactions that come with it. If any balancing is to be done, I'd prefer it to be done in the spirit of making things more fun and fast instead of slow things down like nerfing pets is doing.

I disagree with all modern QOL features, but there's something to be said about scrollwheel, a camera that doesn't stutter on moving, spell loadout sets, autofire, buff timers, DoT damage, melody, etc - those are reasonable accommodations for a game in 2023.

They don't fundamentally change the gameplay, which is the most important part of EQ to replicate. But there's some exceptions to even that, too, like monks being awful in PoP for a period of time.

We may opt to apply gameplay changes that would be majorly impactful. For example, CT may be harder than we found evidence of in Classic, as CT was rootable, fearable, snareable, debuffable, etc... as he virtually had no magic resist. He was later changed from a 325 max hit to a 425 max hit in Kunark.

So for cases like that, we'll opt to make the gods harder than they were - likely will make CT have Velious-era immunities but retain their level 55 status until Velious, when the CT 1.0 revamp occurs.

[Secrets]

things like this are actively reducing reasons to play quarm

if it's gonna mirror p99, people will just remain on p99

The issue is charm is majorly impactful in classic - to the point where it needs a downside. This is the proper downside to charm to prevent its abuse. I heavily dislike how overpowered charm ends up being, so the risk/reward factor is penalized for the only area in which charm matters - rate of experience. Yes, it may impact Magicians and other pet classes, but those are also strong (& grouping will negate the issue entirely, anyway, as the pet change applies to a single pet doing 50% of the damage, so multiple active pets will not reduce experience.

Separately, we've made changes to avoid abuse on launch during the 'level rush' - such as bards being limited to 4 targets at a time in newbie zones like North Qeynos and Qeynos Hills, and 8 (maybe 15) mobs in non-newbie zones.

I think with all the changes we've made, there won't nearly be as much abuse from individual players - and grouping will hands down be the best experience you can have on launch. Some Bard players may get ahead still, same with Enchanters at a specific level. Some folks may opt to do early quests to get out of the launch rush. Whatever the case, I'm excited to see on launch how folks do.

[Trexller]

will quarm still have the max lvl summoned pets only?

on takp all summoned pets are max lvl

[Rager and Quitter]

Oh, melody??? I might be playing my bard again!

[Limerence]

I disagree with all modern QOL features, but there's something to be said about scrollwheel, a camera that doesn't stutter on moving, spell loadout sets, autofire, buff timers, DoT damage, melody, etc - those are reasonable accommodations for a game in 2023...

Are these things that you want to implement? Would be really nice.

[Evia]

Melody and auto fire being added would be incredible ngl

[Jimjam]

How about bandolier?

That is super handy.

[Tealia]

I disagree with all modern QOL features, but there's something to be said about scrollwheel, a camera that doesn't stutter on moving, spell loadout sets, autofire, buff timers, DoT damage, melody, etc - those are reasonable accommodations for a game in 2023.


I'll go without all of those if I can just open all of my bags at once.

[Rager and Quitter]

I'll go without all of those if I can just open all of my bags at once.

Pretty sure you can already bind them all to open with 1 key then all to close with another. I'd look it up for you, but I haven't logged in in a minute, maybe someone else can pipe in if they remember which key bind it is.

[Malk]

Options->Keys->category:Commands->Open Inventory Bags (and Close Inventory Bags)

You can bind "Toggle inventory window" to the same key to open all the bags and the inventory at the same time, however since one is a toggle and not the other you'll need either a modifier key or a different key to close everything.

For example "i" to open all bags+inventory, and "shift-i" to close everything.

[Tealia]

Options->Keys->category:Commands->Open Inventory Bags (and Close Inventory Bags)


Not on Quarm, the topic of the thread.

[Rager and Quitter]

Not on Quarm, the topic of the thread.

Ah, oh yeah, that would be important. I have a problem with reading comprehension, my parents were idiots and I was educated by the American education system. Have mercy on me.

[Seducio]

Credit to Pithy:

To open all bags at once, make a page of hotkeys that contains one button for each inventory slot. Something like this:

- Go to an empty hotkey page, for example by pressing SHIFT + 2.
- Click and hold on your top left inventory slot until the image appears on your cursor.
- Drag the image to the top left hotkey slot and drop it there.
- Repeat for your other inventory slots.
- To open all bags, go to the hotkey page (SHIFT + 2, or whatever) and type 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8.
- To close all bags, just press ESC.

https://www.takproject.net/forums/index.php?threads/takp-newbie-questions.24303/#post-115970

[Vexenu]

Has there been any communication on what sort of release timeline Quarm intends to adhere to in terms of classic content? I know we can expect legacy items at launch, but how about Paineel? Temple of Sol Ro? Plane of Hate/Sky? Will Mage research be screwed up ala classic and Green? Etc...

I know the plan is for 9 months per expansion, but I'm wondering how closely the content releases in each expansion will mirror live in terms of their release schedule.

[Seducio]

Not sure if this answers every question you had but it should answer most. Things haven't finalized but this was posted yesterday on discord:

>>
Secrets — Yesterday at 6:39 PM
Time-Locked Progression system, with 9 months between each expansion. Classic -> Kunark -> Velious -> Luclin -> Planes of Power.

Incremental patches will occur every 3 months.

Classic (1.x)

1.0 (Launch)
- Paineel is in on launch. The Hole and The Warrens are closed.
- Runnyeye does not drop Alloy items, and the sporali have not moved in.
- Legacy Items are enabled:
* Manastone
* Rubicite Armor
* Guise of the Deceiver
* Journeyman's Boots (Drelzna)
- EXP / ZEM - Pre Velious, Classic EQ ZEMs
- A single pet dealing 50% or more will reduce solo experience at 50% or equal to one group member weight of the pet's level if grouped.
- Wizards keep later xpac innate crit chance.

Classic 1.3: (3 months)
- The Temple of Solusek Ro opens.
- The Classic Planes (Hate, Fear, Sky) open. - Cazic-Thule is a hybrid of Kunark and Velious CT. Innoruuk is a hybrid of pre and post revamp Innoruuk. (Immunities to slow, snare, fear, root, paci, etc, but not resist immune)
- Legacy Items are disabled from Classic 1.0

Classic 1.6: (3 months)
- The Hole opens.
- Bloody Kithicor / Firiona Vie / Lanys T'vyl GM event
- Lustrous Russet Armor stops dropping.

Classic 1.9:
- None (This is our pre-Kunark milestone)
- Special GM event involving Firiona Vie

Secrets — Yesterday at 6:47 PM
Kunark (2.x)
Kunark 2.0:
- Kunark accessible.
- Iksar createable.
- Nurga and Droga pre revamp
- Chardok pre revamp.
- Level Cap 60, 0 AA
- Legacy Items enabled.
- Epic Items enabled.

2.3:
- Firepot binding removed.
- Cazic Thule / Innoruuk given minor damage boost over classic.

Kunark 2.6:
- Legacy Items disabled.

Kunark 2.9:
- Pre velious patch.
-Gnomes appear, wanting help crafting a new feat of gnomish engineering that will allow their expedition to reach an island they saw in the distance...

Secrets — Yesterday at 6:56 PM
Velious (3.x)
Velious (3.0)
- Velious opens.
- Level cap remains 60.
- Runnyeye revamps.
- Warrens and Stonebrunt quests NPCs enable.
- Legacy Items enable.
- Seaworthy planking is enabled as a rare spawn.
- EXP/ ZEM rules change to Velious group bonus / Velious newbie ZEM boost.
- Sleeper's Tomb is unavailable at launch.

Velious 3.3
- The Planes of Hate and Fear revamp.
- The Sleeper's tomb opens.
-Seaworthy Planking is disabled.
Velious 3.6:
- The Warrens and Stonebrunt opens.
- Legacy Items are disabled.

Velious 3.9:
- Chardok revamps.
- Pre-Luclin milestone.
- Al'Kabor Spire GM event
>>

[Vexenu]

Awesome, thanks.

[aussenseiter]

Not sure if this answers every question you had but it should answer most. Things haven't finalized but this was posted yesterday on discord:

>>
Secrets — Yesterday at 6:39 PM
Time-Locked Progression system, with 9 months between each expansion. Classic -> Kunark -> Velious -> Luclin -> Planes of Power.

Incremental patches will occur every 3 months.

Classic (1.x)

1.0 (Launch)
- Paineel is in on launch. The Hole and The Warrens are closed.
- Runnyeye does not drop Alloy items, and the sporali have not moved in.
- Legacy Items are enabled:
* Manastone
* Rubicite Armor
* Guise of the Deceiver
* Journeyman's Boots (Drelzna)
- EXP / ZEM - Pre Velious, Classic EQ ZEMs
- A single pet dealing 50% or more will reduce solo experience at 50% or equal to one group member weight of the pet's level if grouped.
- Wizards keep later xpac innate crit chance.

Classic 1.3: (3 months)
- The Temple of Solusek Ro opens.
- The Classic Planes (Hate, Fear, Sky) open. - Cazic-Thule is a hybrid of Kunark and Velious CT. Innoruuk is a hybrid of pre and post revamp Innoruuk. (Immunities to slow, snare, fear, root, paci, etc, but not resist immune)
- Legacy Items are disabled from Classic 1.0

Classic 1.6: (3 months)
- The Hole opens.
- Bloody Kithicor / Firiona Vie / Lanys T'vyl GM event
- Lustrous Russet Armor stops dropping.

Classic 1.9:
- None (This is our pre-Kunark milestone)
- Special GM event involving Firiona Vie

Secrets — Yesterday at 6:47 PM
Kunark (2.x)
Kunark 2.0:
- Kunark accessible.
- Iksar createable.
- Nurga and Droga pre revamp
- Chardok pre revamp.
- Level Cap 60, 0 AA
- Legacy Items enabled.
- Epic Items enabled.

2.3:
- Firepot binding removed.
- Cazic Thule / Innoruuk given minor damage boost over classic.

Kunark 2.6:
- Legacy Items disabled.

Kunark 2.9:
- Pre velious patch.
-Gnomes appear, wanting help crafting a new feat of gnomish engineering that will allow their expedition to reach an island they saw in the distance...

Secrets — Yesterday at 6:56 PM
Velious (3.x)
Velious (3.0)
- Velious opens.
- Level cap remains 60.
- Runnyeye revamps.
- Warrens and Stonebrunt quests NPCs enable.
- Legacy Items enable.
- Seaworthy planking is enabled as a rare spawn.
- EXP/ ZEM rules change to Velious group bonus / Velious newbie ZEM boost.
- Sleeper's Tomb is unavailable at launch.

Velious 3.3
- The Planes of Hate and Fear revamp.
- The Sleeper's tomb opens.
-Seaworthy Planking is disabled.
Velious 3.6:
- The Warrens and Stonebrunt opens.
- Legacy Items are disabled.

Velious 3.9:
- Chardok revamps.
- Pre-Luclin milestone.
- Al'Kabor Spire GM event
>>

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf.png

[Seducio]

For insight on Baghdad Bob (image posted above) I highly recommend the movie 'What about Bob' with Bill Murray and Richard Dreyfus.

Masterpiece

[karekiz]

OG Paw + OG Grimling war + OG AC would be interesting.

[Seducio]

Regarding Paw:

>>
randy — 08/22/2023 4:28 PM
Which version of splitpaw will be there on launch?
Secrets — 08/22/2023 4:34 PM
The one without the elementals. Infected Paw
The OG one was moved to South Karana very quickly after launch in Classic. Then, that new Infected Paw version stayed until LDON which isn't on this server.
>>

No mention of other Luclin items you brought up yet. TAKP is a good outline, but PQ Luclin timeline is still TBA other than it will be 9 months long.

[algernop]

Has there been any communication on what sort of release timeline Quarm intends to adhere to in terms of classic content? I know we can expect legacy items at launch, but how about Paineel? Temple of Sol Ro? Plane of Hate/Sky? Will Mage research be screwed up ala classic and Green? Etc...

I know the plan is for 9 months per expansion, but I'm wondering how closely the content releases in each expansion will mirror live in terms of their release schedule.

Timeline up to velious is on the discord

[Secrets]

OG Paw + OG Grimling war + OG AC would be interesting.

2.0 Paw, 1.0 Grimling War + 1.0 Acrylia Caverns are on TAKP and functional, Ring of Fire et al.

I actually made a "Ring of Barking" that no one found during the stress test. Was hidden near Hadden.

https://i.imgur.com/cgcXkOU.png

[Trexller]

Quarm should have The Bazaar in at launch. Put the baz stone in the EC tunnel.

let's just avoid all of the bullshit of the EC tunnel from day 1 on this server.

flag a trader account so it can be online with the player's main account, like on TAKP

[aussenseiter]

Quarm should have The Bazaar in at launch. Put the baz stone in the EC tunnel.

let's just avoid all of the bullshit of the EC tunnel from day 1 on this server.

flag a trader account so it can be online with the player's main account, like on TAKP

What about Miragul's Highway? I've never checked if those go on TAKP.

[Trexller]

What about Miragul's Highway? I've never checked if those go on TAKP.

dunno if secrets has mentioned firepots

i don't know of any reason why they wouldn't be enabled at kunark launch

[Daldaen]

Quarm should have The Bazaar in at launch. Put the baz stone in the EC tunnel.

let's just avoid all of the bullshit of the EC tunnel from day 1 on this server.

flag a trader account so it can be online with the player's main account, like on TAKP

This x 1000.

Just enable Nexus, Bazaar and spires from day 1. Enable a trader flagged account and only allow boxing 1 game account and 1 trader account. Trader characters spawn in bazaar.

Would be lovely.

[Vexenu]

There's definitely a quality of life argument to be made for the Bazaar, but I think if that's implemented it should come later in the timeline. Some point in the Kunark era perhaps, once the server has matured a bit. For all of its flaws, there's an undeniable magic to the Classic EQ experience, which includes the EC tunnel as a trading hub. If you change that formula, you rob people of a large part of the nostalgia they're obviously looking for by choosing to play a nearly 25 year old game.

I definitely don't agree that Nexus and porting spires should be available from day one, though. That completely changes the feel of the game. Something like that should only be considered if the server pop was so low that ports were not widely available, which doesn't seem like it will be the case given the interest Quarm is generating. That stuff should only be released with Luclin, as per the live timeline.

[Seducio]

I've seen the 'early trader account' idea brought up on Discord, but haven't seen Secrets engage the idea as best as I can tell since it is a custom change and not classic or even classic like. It's something TAKP players are used to due to what era they are in, but would be a new thing for p99 players. The majority of Old School EQ players are currently playing p99 or off in other Emu/games. This is compared with the smaller population playing on TAKP. Considering some of the concerns of p99 players (ie mousewheel) might lead to higher level of popularity of the server than considering the concerns of TAKP players at least at first. This is my guess and not based on any Secrets communication. Dev input when it does show up is more important and revealing than my observations on this one.

It may be technically a pain to have Bazaar open without Nexus/Luclin entry points prior to Luclin release than it would seem. On discord EC was suggested as an alternative to Bazaar for a trader account, but I am unsure of feasibility of making a custom change like this and how code intensive it is. This would create a future headache of having to transfer those traders to Bazaar from EC when it opens. Again I haven't seen Secrets response on this one. Most likely scenario is players on Quarm will trade similar to p99 without a Bazaar until Luclin is released unless Secrets says otherwise.

Personally I would be a fan of this idea, but it doesn't appear to be top priority re: getting the server off the ground based on Secrets communications so far.

[Trexller]

PoK is already available from launch, that's one access point.

wouldn't take much to put a baz stone in some common place like ec tunnel

[Trexller]

If you change that formula, you rob people of a large part of the nostalgia they're obviously looking for by choosing to play a nearly 25 year old game

only the purist masochists

many more players than them are just trying to play a game 1-2 hrs at a time

there is no monthly sub, so there is no reason to design the game to be time sinky

[Toxigen]

Quarm makes me moist.

[Seducio]

PoK is already available from launch, that's one access point.

wouldn't take much to put a baz stone in some common place like ec tunnel

>>
Secrets — 08/09/2023 11:18 AM
To be clear, early concessions on stuff like POK being available were made based on 'general feeling' from TAKP's history. We removed POK at launch because to be quite frank, I didn't expect so many folks to be okay with it being gone until Planes.
>>

PoK not in at launch. Current communication is it will come online in era in PoP.

[Trexller]

aaaand another reason to play quarm is gone

already did classic eq back in 2000 and twice on p99

see ya'll at quarm luclin launch in what, 2027?

[Seducio]

Assume most out of era changes will not occur.

It is a Classic progression server through Planes of Power. Some client upgrades and QoL, like buff timers, are happening but they are the exception rather than the rule. If we are extremely lucky we may even get a new client down the road. No promise has been made though.

But to expect Luclin era or PoP era in game benefits right at Classic release is not in alignment with one of the stated dev goals of server population stability.

[Vexenu]

aaaand another reason to play quarm is gone

already did classic eq back in 2000 and twice on p99

see ya'll at quarm luclin launch in what, 2027?
I get this sentiment, but ultimately the game is what it is. EverQuest is a game designed to have a certain progression in mind. If you start mixing and matching too many different elements from across the timeline, the game loses it distinct feel. I think most players would be amenable to reasonable out-of-era QoL changes like pet windows, DoT ticks, melody, etc... but adding PoK from launch changes the feel of the game on a very fundamental level. And it seems that most players aren't looking for that.

[Toxigen]

aaaand another reason to play quarm is gone

already did classic eq back in 2000 and twice on p99

see ya'll at quarm luclin launch in what, 2027?

9 months of each expansion til locked pop

c u real soon

[ashentco]

is anyone going to group with (let me leech exp) my rogue in classic while I have no gear and no weapons just so I can wait 6 months for Kunark

[rhold]

I guess I am not as nostalgic as most to go thru all of the phases as I wasn't at the tip of the curve ever. The vast, vast majority of players have never had Legacy items on Live or P99.

I would think that just releasing it at the end of it's incarnation to start with would draw the most people.

9 months wait from release to be an Iksar. 27 month wait to be a Vah Shir or a Beastlord.

I don't understand the purpose of holding content back just to hold it back.

[ashentco]

I guess I am not as nostalgic as most to go thru all of the phases as I wasn't at the tip of the curve ever. The vast, vast majority of players have never had Legacy items on Live or P99.

I would think that just releasing it at the end of it's incarnation to start with would draw the most people.

9 months wait from release to be an Iksar. 27 month wait to be a Vah Shir or a Beastlord.

I don't understand the purpose of holding content back just to hold it back.

It isn't just to hold back content.. it's just that the eras are followed on a progression project like this. You want Vah Shir to be coded to start in Qeynos or something? Iksar to pop out of Grobb just because?

I personally don't think that would bother me that much, but it is completely silly. I do know that Maze made a project a few years ago where Kunark was going to come out in 3 months or whatever, so no one wanted to reroll immediately so he allowed Iksar to come out of Grobb and it worked out fine, I don't think anyone minded that much. But it's just part of classic eq, these races didn't exist yet.

It's even more complicated talking about Beastlords. There's no spell vendors or anything set up for that, not to mention balance. They come out in Luclin, you gotta wait.

[Swish]

If you're itching to play a beastlord head on over to www.takproject.net -- its a good time there :)

[Seducio]

If you're itching to play a beastlord head on over to www.takproject.net -- its a good time there :)

Can confirm. Coming from p99 there are some client differences on TAKP for sure and many from p99 bounce off there for a reason or another. But those that stick around TAKP sometimes like it better. Very easy to raid over there. Personally both p99 and TAKP are my two favorite EQ Emu and hoping to add PQ to the mix shortly upon release.

[Trexller]

will 3rd for TAKP

it's a vastly superior EQ experience if you're intelligent and mature enough to understand why 3 boxing is not game-breaking.

and Secrets is actively removing literally everything about TAKP that makes it better than p99.

I was excited for the project until I saw that it's gonna be nothing but a P99 clone that goes until PoP after 35 years.

been there, done that.

[Vormotus]

I personally plan to enjoy a good romp on quarm once it launches, I play a crapton of mmos, and one that is like p99 but that has beastlords and a 1 box only policy sounds like my jam, even if its just 100 weirdos like me.

I mean, this is a game so old that in some countries it could have kids, a crap job , and a small hovel to call home already, so we are all weirdos to be here getting dopamine or RMT $ off this game.

I welcome quarm with open arms... It launches on October btw to those that dont know it.