How do classes change in Luclin and PoP?

[Vanessa]

In Classic, not many people played things like Ranger, Pally, SK, or even melee in general. When Green 2.0 came out, it seemed like mostly casters; at least that I saw, especially Mages.

Then in Kunark, there was suddenly a ton of Monks and Necros, for obvious reasons. But I think melee classes in general were around more. Whereas Mages started to lose power.

And finally, in Velious, it feels Mages are only used for raids. And melee is superrrr strong.

I don't have much experience with most classes, so I don't know exactly how they changed through Classic, Kunark, and Velious, but I kind of have an idea.

However, when it comes to the next couple expansions, Luclin and PoP, I've no idea. I've never played either of them. My only EQ experience is here on P99. But recently I've been reading people talk about a new server starting in a couple weeks that will use these expansions. So that got me thinking ....

Do you guys know much about those expansions?
If so, how do classes change in them?

Do Rangers get better and are more common to see?
Do Mage pets begin to get stronger again?
Can Wizards able to solo better, or invited to groups more often? Or are they still used mostly for just raids?

[Troxx]

Class specific major changes:

Rangers got a massive boost with archery mastery 3 and endless quiver, fundamentally changing how they did damage for many expansions. They became rogue level or higher dps at baseline and were godly dps under trueshot.

Wizards received significant changes via aa’s making them more competitive in daily play

Bards got fading memories, an instant aggro wipe on a longish cooldown due to impaired mana regen.

Warriors became a lot more tolerable to play with AAs that allowed them to pull even further ahead from a mitigation standpoint along with benefiting hugely from weapon affinity as it increases proc rate by 50% which is crucial to the ability to tank. There were also made available more warrior specific weapons with proc rate mods for those that raided.

All in all everyone becomes more efficient with aa’s.

Monks got put back in their place with some mitigation nerfs.

[Toxigen]

this quarms my heart

[Arvan]

warriors already best class rip quarm

[Crede]

I feel like if monks just never did good dps that would have made them balanced from the start. Would have still been ok with them being effective tanks/pullers.

[Toxigen]

pretty sure monk ac nerf is not happening on quarm

they gonna be nutso

[Keebz]

pretty sure monk ac nerf is not happening on quarm

Secrets is playing a monk, so probably not.

[cd288]

I feel like if monks just never did good dps that would have made them balanced from the start. Would have still been ok with them being effective tanks/pullers.

Monks are effective tanks in the 50s for example? I've never felt like they are unless DPS is absolutely just melting things, which can certainly be the case in some groups.

I don't understand the Monk pulling meta anymore. Everyone just wants chain pulling so it's not like having FD really matters...people are just like pull them all lol

[enjchanter]

The only reason I won't play enc first is because I need a guisee level 36 paladin

[Keebz]

I don't think anyone really cares about leveling balance. It's the end game raiding that makes people mad. Monks have the best innate mitigation in the game and equal AC/HP with all the Velious+ itemization. Fix the itemization and its fine, but the treadmill is what keeps people playing, so innate mitigation nerf it is.

[astuce999]

Bards, Rangers, and Wizards got the most out of Luclin and then PoP. Since out of those 3 classes bards were already really good, they became godly.

While true that Fading Memories is the top ability bards acquired, making them surpass Monks as the premier pulling class (much complaining and nerfing ensued), there were a lot of other substantial gains:


-2 mins group selos
-AE resist songs
-AE mana song
-overhaste
-singing modifier song + items (voice of the serpent or shadowsong cloak)
-unresistable mez song
-nuke focus mod song (rizlona's)
-poison and disease chant dots
-AA Bellow

to name a few :)

cheers,

Astuce

[Master Roshi]

Paladins got their DA hammer, get rekt ramp tanks.

[Foxplay]

Wizard crit.... makes dopamine number bigger wheeee

[magnetaress]

Wizards are the best in luclin and pop.

Rangers a close second.

And then Mages.

[cd288]

Wizard crit.... makes dopamine number bigger wheeee

Fox out of curiosity why did you take 2 Enchanters to 60? lol

No Monk?

[enjchanter]

Probably because there's 10 million monks on the server already and we don't need more

[Vexenu]

How do Rogues fare in Luclin/PoP? Any interesting AAs or especially strong itemization? Still the champs of sustained DPS despite Ranger and Wiz buffs?

[TheBlob]

How are mages, in terms of DPS, grouping ability, role during raids and solo ability?

[Foxplay]

Fox out of curiosity why did you take 2 Enchanters to 60? lol

No Monk?

Because the class is overpowered and a complete joke to level 1-60 if you know what your doing....

Also have 2 Snakes

[Jimjam]

Bards, Rangers, and Wizards got the most out of Luclin and then PoP. Since out of those 3 classes bards were already really good, they became godly.

While true that Fading Memories is the top ability bards acquired, making them surpass Monks as the premier pulling class (much complaining and nerfing ensued), there were a lot of other substantial gains:


-2 mins group selos
-AE resist songs
-AE mana song
-overhaste
-singing modifier song + items (voice of the serpent or shadowsong cloak)
-unresistable mez song
-nuke focus mod song (rizlona's)
-poison and disease chant dots
-AA Bellow

to name a few :)

cheers,

Astuce

Was shakerpaging not sol/pop era? I’m sure rampage, and maybe the broken warcry that acted as a second rampage, were both around this era?

[Jimjam]

Fox out of curiosity why did you take 2 Enchanters to 60? lol

No Monk?

If you enjoy a class enough to level it 1-60, you may well look back fondly on the experience (or feel you missed some opportunities) which can make repeating the journey a compelling experience.

[Krinkill]

Shakerpage came out during luclin, all you needed was the Rampage AA, Earthshaker, and a shaman to slow you.

Never really got to be worth the hassle untill pofire.

[Briq]

I never did have an earthshaker but I remember pulling for AoE groups at the zone in of The Deep during Luclin and it being pretty decent exp flow. It might have just been relative to the lack of exp I was used to but I loved joining those groups lol

PoFire on the otherside of the wall was the shit

[Snagglepuss]

How did enchanter charm strategy change from velious to luclin, then pop? Were there higher resists or more mez / stun immune mobs to complicate things? Or were they able to still solo plenty of nameds and explore dungeons at will?

Also, when it was referenced that shamans are no longer strong soloers (I presume end game farming type soloing - obviously any caster class can exp solo / farm random stuff). Is it just the mob hp levels and lack of torpor upgrade that make them not as effective? Did slow mechanics stay the same?

[Master Roshi]

How do Rogues fare in Luclin/PoP? Any interesting AAs or especially strong itemization? Still the champs of sustained DPS despite Ranger and Wiz buffs?

Rogues explode in dps during PoP, but as far as Luclin goes they finally get a piercer higher than 15 dmg with:

Bloodbath Piercing — 28805
MAGIC LORE NO TRADE
Slot: Primary, Secondary
DMG: 16 Delay: 21 Ratio: 0.76
HP: 100 + 2/tick MANA: 0 END: 75 ATK: 25
STA: 5 STR: 15 DEX: 10
SV MAGIC: 20
Skill Mod Backstab: 12% (Max: 34)
Worn Effect: Blood Bath
2: Increase AC by 1 to 1, Based on Class
Slot 1, type 4: empty
Required level of 60.
Class: ROG
Tools: Find upgrades Add to wish list
Raid: High Priest of Ssraeshza in Ssraeshza Temple - Correct drop info, Alla, Magelo


Their dps AA's and proc rate increases really help them moving forward.

[Troxx]

How did enchanter charm strategy change from velious to luclin, then pop? Were there higher resists or more mez / stun immune mobs to complicate things? Or were they able to still solo plenty of nameds and explore dungeons at will?

Also, when it was referenced that shamans are no longer strong soloers (I presume end game farming type soloing - obviously any caster class can exp solo / farm random stuff). Is it just the mob hp levels and lack of torpor upgrade that make them not as effective? Did slow mechanics stay the same?

Charm got nerfed sometime after Gates of Discord. Enchanters did get dire charm aa which had niche uses. You saw fewer enchanters charming during these expansions on Live because we were all noobs.

For shamans - slow mechanics didn’t change until far later. Mobs many expansions later mitigated slow but not in Luclin or PoP that I’m aware of. They did become less effective in Luclin and PoP. For Luclin, mob hp went up sharply. In PoP mob damage output went up massively to boot. I forget exactly what the hit values were but I want to say xp trash in middle tier zones like Bastion of Thunder was like 400-500 for the non-named … and they could quad. Im PoP you really fell into the rhythm of needing an ACTUAL tank to do the tanking and generally needing or at least wanting a cleric to toss complete heal.

[Jimjam]

I remember kite groups being super popular in PoV cos it was really hard to build enough mitigation / ho on a dedicated tank that wasn’t raid equipped, let alone something like a ranger or beastlord.

[Troxx]

I remember kite groups being super popular in PoV cos it was really hard to build enough mitigation / ho on a dedicated tank that wasn’t raid equipped, let alone something like a ranger or beastlord.

I remember those as well. Even tier 1 zones like plane of nightmare were rough for “casual” tanks to handle at level 60 with plenty of aa’s in group gear. Hobgoblin tunnels were extra spicy with those coming in quadding for mid to high 300s. Unless your tank was really stout, clerics had to start cheal at like 80% until a slow was in.

But yeah, shamans weren’t gods of solo because no way torpor would keep up.

[astuce999]

Charm got nerfed sometime after Gates of Discord. Enchanters did get dire charm aa which had niche uses. You saw fewer enchanters charming during these expansions on Live because we were all noobs.

For shamans - slow mechanics didn’t change until far later. Mobs many expansions later mitigated slow but not in Luclin or PoP that I’m aware of. They did become less effective in Luclin and PoP. For Luclin, mob hp went up sharply. In PoP mob damage output went up massively to boot. I forget exactly what the hit values were but I want to say xp trash in middle tier zones like Bastion of Thunder was like 400-500 for the non-named … and they could quad. Im PoP you really fell into the rhythm of needing an ACTUAL tank to do the tanking and generally needing or at least wanting a cleric to toss complete heal.

Not sure about Luclin but slow mitigation was definitely in PoP. The mini-bosses in BoT all had "partial slow" only on them. I used to play bard + sham at the time and would take on most of that content no problem. Granted I was raid geared with a zillion AA's, but quiescence and whatever the big heal was called kept me alive and well.

good times.

Astuce

[azeth]

Rogue poisons in PoP are improved and dynamically change the value of the class from only DPS to a useful team player