Is this ninja looting or at least against the rules?

[Archemil]

A player kills a quest NPC, logs off to get an Alt to loot it. While logged off another player comes across the dead NPC and has no idea what is going on and loots the NPC.

Player who looted gets banned. This doesn't seem right to me.

[Seducio]

P99s rules does consider it Ninja Looting. I know it's not like that on all EQ servers out there, but that is how P99 does it. Def be semi-careful looting open corpses especially if there is a desirable item on the corpse that whoever killed the mob would most likely want but its still on the corpse.

In theory if you wait until corpse is nearly gone you could loot it with 15 secs left and be fine because player who killed obviously isn't coming back. Account sharing is something that is allowed here and players that have been around a while typically do have more than one account generally so that is what it's protecting.

Pretty sure these types of violations are suspensions and not full bans though for this rule. You should be able to get some info if you Petition here on forums. If it is a suspension you will be able to log back in after a small amount of time off. It may have changed but OG rules a while back were something like one offense is 7 days, two offenses is 14, etc. I'm not sure if that's still how it is.

Basically you have a one week vacation from P99 most likely.

>>
4. You may not Ninja Loot.
Ninja looting defined is when a player, disregarding the players or player who killed a mob, loots an item that is generally regarded as significant or valuable from the mob they did not kill. This is strictly prohibited and will result in removal of the item(s) and any appropriate disciplinary action.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349
>>

[magnetaress]

It should be legal. Account sharing shenanigans should be inherently risk.

[Guesty07]

You may not loot any mob that you did not kill without permission

[zelld52]

It should be legal. Account sharing shenanigans should be inherently risk.

I agree with this -- if you leave an item on a corpse with no one to lock it -- it should be a risk to log out, log into another toon to loot.

I also get the reason why the rule is in place. Say you have a 60 druid and you kill a level 35 quest NPC so your level 14 troll shaman can get their snare necklace.

But - get a friend maybe? Tell your friend to lock the corpse while you log over. Or just wait until you're level appropriate to do the quest? Or maybe get some help with the quest on the toon you want it looted on? There's lots of other options rather than leaving an item on a corpse, logging out, and then petitioning when someone loots it when youre logged out.

It also contradicts other rules. If someone is killing a spawn, and logging out in between respawns to play another toon. (Say in a zone with a 27 minute respawn on named PH) Then another player can log in, sit at the camp and claim it because there's nobody there. But if we go by the loot rules, then the original player should still have claim even though they were logged out. (Spoiler: they don't)

Suspending players who unknowingly loot another player's quest item because they logged out only reinforces the uber-leet-antisocial-players' behavior of playing a multiplayer game completely solo.

[fortior]

You are only allowed to loot corpses of mobs you killed. Anything else is at your own risk.

[Seducio]

Totally see where you are coming from zelld.

The p99 usage of Account Sharing is built into the meta of raiding and top guilds. So this rule is essentially protecting those with access to more than one account more than the young scrub or newer player with just one character that comes across an empty corpse with a cool desirable item on it.

It's one of the ways that p99 encourages lawyerquesting. Because p99 is top heavy there are many rules setup for the folks that raid to try and minimize disputes there for CSR. This is an example of a rule that impacts the raiders to create an understanding so ninja looters don't come in and get important loot off raid mobs as DKP is being discussed, but when the same rule cascades down it can hit an unsuspecting player who wouldn't know any better. A sad situation where the ones who leverage the rule system designed to protect the top players can hurt someone who unintentionally wasn't trying to rock the boat.

I don't see this changing anytime soon as the meta for p99 is fairly well treaded at this point.

[fortior]

No, the rules are extremely clear cut and simple. You can only freely loot corpses that belong to you, rest is at your own peril.

They're not banning a new player for looting a fine steel sword off some guard's corpse. OP is not telling the entire story.

[Seducio]

Huh? Nobody is talking about fine steel in this thread.

[eqravenprince]

There are 2 minutes to loot a corpse before it becomes a free for all to loot. If the Devs didn't want anyone else looting, then that's a simple code change.

[enjchanter]

A player kills a quest NPC, logs off to get an Alt to loot it. While logged off another player comes across the dead NPC and has no idea what is going on and loots the NPC.

Player who looted gets banned. This doesn't seem right to me.

yes he should get banned
if you didnt kill the mob you have absolutely zero rights to loot that mob without asking

[Seducio]

Can you see the situation from the other side of the perspective enj?

You are right that the rules as stated don't give the other player any loot rights compared with who got the kill.

Are you telling me though as a young scrub you never came across a corpse with seeming nobody around and were like hmmm. It's a learning lesson for OP. Unless they changed the rules from years back, shouldn't be a full ban. Wielding the ban hammer indiscriminately on a server with a population that has been shrinking may have deleterious long term effects on server popularity.

[magnetaress]

Get friends get gud. To pander to anything otherwise is to breed in weakness and losers with no lifestyle.

[fortior]

Can you see the situation from the other side of the perspective enj?

You are right that the rules as stated don't give the other player any loot rights compared with who got the kill.

Are you telling me though as a young scrub you never came across a corpse with seeming nobody around and were like hmmm. It's a learning lesson for OP. Unless they changed the rules from years back, shouldn't be a full ban. Wielding the ban hammer indiscriminately on a server with a population that has been shrinking may have deleterious long term effects on server popularity.

This didn't happen. The GMs don't mercilessly ban just for some newbie looting a random item. My money's on difficult to get nodrop quest piece and OP talking back instead of admitting fault

You seriously still fall for people making threads and not telling the entire story? Lol.

[Seducio]

Huh? Nobody is talking about fine steel in this thread.

[Questors]

Just think of all the crude steins that would have rotted if the hundreds of you had not just taken one off that dead Ogre Bouncer. A public service right? No wasting of usable loot, right?

Well gee, there's no harm in looting that lore stein. Right? But other corpses? Nay! That's a bridge too far! So how many of you got suspended or banned for that stein?

Abandoned AC corpse in South Ro?! Score! But wait! No. That's criminal! You dirty ninja loot whore!

In for a penny, in for a pound.

In the end, it's what one wants to justify in the moment. Easy win: Just don't loot a corpse that you didn't kill. We know this is not a thing though. People do it all the time.

[fortior]

You can just ask to loot stuff. Chances are whoever you're asking will even help you out more if you're looking to kick start your newbie career in p99. I do that when possible, at least. You can also just loot inconsequential stuff like fine steel if it's rotting, nobody will petition you or ban you for that shit, you may at most get a warning if it's even noticed.

However, if you loot a rare quest item, or something which you definitely know is important/valuable/rare (even if you pretend you don't, like OP,) then you will get smacked for it. It's that simple.

[Mantard]

This didn't happen. The GMs don't mercilessly ban just for some newbie looting a random item. My money's on difficult to get nodrop quest piece and OP talking back instead of admitting fault

You seriously still fall for people making threads and not telling the entire story? Lol.


100%

For all we knew OP lootlocked the corpse when he saw the person swap characters, tried to extort him/her and then looted the no-drop quest-specific item to the class that he wasn't when he wasn't paid off, shouting "LOL LOSER!!!" before /q.

I doubt someone looting something on accident in good faith would get banned. If they do, that's a serious problem. But the issue here is good-faith and noob then, and not the looting. I personally don't like the idea that random bodies are potential bans though. People don't loot bodies sometimes and as a noob pocket change is life changing.

But no one would just lie online.

[fortior]

I can't restate this enough. If you are a new player and you just do something that's not allowed but clearly in good faith, you will not get banned. You will not even be punished. You might even make friends, just tell people you're new and they will understand.

You get banned by flagrantly defying clearly stated rules (FYI: staff assumes you are aware of the main server rules) and being combative when called out. Every single person who has ever complained about being unjustly banned on P99 was a douche or completely deserve it. Prove me wrong (you can't). P99 staff is laissez-faire to a fault. They don't moderate enough. If you get banned by them then you were bad enough to make the most hands-off moderation staff wake up and do something instead of slacking.

[Snaggles]

The PnP and tenants of p99 are in plain language and simple to understand. You typically only get in trouble after the person who killed something petitions you. If it’s your other char, someone who sold you loot, or a buddy…slim chance of it happening.

Maybe read the tiny instruction card first before playing the game? Or just asking politely first.

[cd288]

If this is a real scenario and the looter got banned that is completely 100% absurd. Someone would've never been banned for that back on live during the classic era.

If you log out to log over to another char and the loot lockout expires, that's a free for all corpse. That's the whole POINT of the corpse lock timer in the first place...to give the person who killed it a period of time to loot it otherwise it's free to be looted.

In a way, this is also against the spirit of EQ which is collaboration between players. If you want to guarantee looting on a certain char you should have to find someone else to come help you kill it while you play that char.

[fortior]

If you log out to log over to another char and the loot lockout expires, that's a free for all corpse. That's the whole POINT of the corpse lock timer in the first place...to give the person who killed it a period of time to loot it otherwise it's free to be looted.

Go to ToV and loot something off a corpse that someone is running their alt to, see how that goes for you

[Fammaden]

ITT cd288 doesn't know the server rules, continues to be very opinionated about them.

[enjchanter]

Can you see the situation from the other side of the perspective enj?

You are right that the rules as stated don't give the other player any loot rights compared with who got the kill.

Are you telling me though as a young scrub you never came across a corpse with seeming nobody around and were like hmmm. It's a learning lesson for OP. Unless they changed the rules from years back, shouldn't be a full ban. Wielding the ban hammer indiscriminately on a server with a population that has been shrinking may have deleterious long term effects on server popularity.

I mean I've had ppl in pom ninja loot my cards while I swap toons. Luckily they were the only other person in zone so it was obvious who took it.

In my situation, how's that fair to me that someone can just walk up to my mobs corpse while I'm swapping, see no one around, take my item, then gate out leaving me with nothing.

[WarpathEQ]

Since most of these conversations rely on opinion and not fact I'm going to start by posting the actual rule regarding this as it is written. Everything else is open to interpretation.

4. You may not Ninja Loot.
Ninja looting defined is when a player, disregarding the players or player who killed a mob, loots an item that is generally regarded as significant or valuable from the mob they did not kill. This is strictly prohibited and will result in removal of the item(s) and any appropriate disciplinary action.

As written, like most rules, its vague and requires a bit of judgement to determine the appropriate course of action.

My viewpoints on the topic are as follows:

A lot of content is looked at as raid content or non-raid content. AKA can a group of people kill the mob or does it take multiple groups and coordination to kill.

Non-Raid Content
There is a 2 minute timer (minimum) that locks the corpse. Anyone that killed the mob is fully capable of looting the corpse in 2 minutes or less. Beyond that the corpse is open for anyone to loot. You should have no issues looting a corpse at that point, especially if nobody is around. If there is someone standing right on top of the corpse or nearby its good etiquette to ask first and if they are clearly on top of the mob trying to loot it then just back off.

For those of you talking about switching toons, if it takes you more than 2 minutes and someone loots the corpse well it sucks to suck, it takes 30 seconds or less to switch toons I've never had a corpse unlocked by the time I get back to it on the other toon, not once, never. If I walk up on an open corpse with nobody around I'm looting it 100% of the time.

Raid Content
100% of the time you loot a raid mob that you didn't kill it will be an issue, unless you receive permission first. These mobs inherently require more than one group therefore the loot typically CANNOT be properly looted off the corpse until the timer expires and the rightful winner of the loot, who likely didn't get the exp and had to wait out the timer, can actually loot it.

Also keep in mind, what happened is only the start. If someone petitions and a GM/CSR gets involved always be truthful and honest. If you did something you think was right and the CSR determines a different outcome the more than likely they just move the loot and thats the end of it. If you are dishonest or un-cooperative you are taking the future of your account out of your own hands. Its typically the extra curriculurs that get people banned, not a single error in judgement. Especially when the rules you're goverened by are written so vaguely.

[cd288]

Go to ToV and loot something off a corpse that someone is running their alt to, see how that goes for you

Obviously there's a very limited exception here for raid targets. That's a totally different world and you know that's not really what I'm referring to. Those corpses are basically loot-locked by a member of the guild anyway, so totally inapplicable.

If someone loots like an FBSS for example that really shouldn't be bannable.

[cd288]

ITT cd288 doesn't know the server rules, continues to be very opinionated about them.

I know the server rules. I said that specific rule was absurd

[enjchanter]

Hope Warpath gets banned for ninjalooting

Wrote a text wall just to say he ignores server rules

[WarpathEQ]

Hope Warpath gets banned for ninjalooting

Wrote a text wall just to say he ignores server rules

I hope you get admitted to a school that can help you learn how to read. I literally quoted the exact rule and gave multiple examples of how to follow it.

[WarpathEQ]

I mean I've had ppl in pom ninja loot my cards while I swap toons. Luckily they were the only other person in zone so it was obvious who took it.

In my situation, how's that fair to me that someone can just walk up to my mobs corpse while I'm swapping, see no one around, take my item, then gate out leaving me with nothing.

My bad didn't realize you were the noob that got your stuff looted in pom, now I understand why you took issue with my post about how to follow the rules.

Maybe we need a new thread called how to loot a corpse. I'm sorry but if its sitting there for 5 minutes there is nothing ninja about it, its just called looting at that point.

[Seducio]

I mean I've had ppl in pom ninja loot my cards while I swap toons. Luckily they were the only other person in zone so it was obvious who took it.

In my situation, how's that fair to me that someone can just walk up to my mobs corpse while I'm swapping, see no one around, take my item, then gate out leaving me with nothing.

Well if you read the second post of this thread then you will see then I referenced the actual rules and would label what happened to you as ninja looting according to p99 ruleset. We agree there.

All I was suggesting is that your 'stick' or punishment to ban who does it seems a bit harsh. Just saying give them a ban willy nilly. I'm fairly certain that the CSRs typically use a suspension style punishment for this kind of thing rather than a full ban for this all though some extreme cases might require full ban.

The situation I suggested you put yourself in was with a relatively newb making a mistake on a raid say of ninja looting an item they shouldn't have for the first time while the person who was supposed to get item is camping out and changing to alt. That seems like a learning experience the guild to teach that person. Humans are going to human. And new people sometimes will learn the hard way. Less newbs these days on p99 so this doesn't happen that much anymore.

In your situation in PoM that seems almost pre-meditated because if there was only you and the other guy in the zone. Obviously malicious intent there. And you'd be absolutely correct then in reporting etc. So all I'm saying is each situation is a little different.

This whole thread is everyone whose played for while knowing the rules and casting different interpretations. End of the day CSR decides and most p99ers know the boundaries for the most part on this one.

[Troxx]

If you didn’t kill it and didn’t get permission; don’t loot it.

Pretty simple rule to follow.

[enjchanter]

Expecting ppl not to ninja loot my mob while I swap characters to loot a mob is a newb mistake
TIL

[Seducio]

Nah guy. Expecting people to get banned for it is the bridge too far. The words are there, it's not clear you read them.

[enjchanter]

Fuck em , imo

[Seducio]

Just saying CSR would slap a 7 day suspension for that on the other player for the thing that happened to you in PoM it it was his first offense. 2nd offense 14 days. 3rd offense 21 days.

In the Raid scenario I mentioned. More than likely the newb gets kicked from the guild or doesn't make it out of recruit status. As in there is an in-guild punishment for the guy looting what he wasn't supposed to. CSR doesn't even need to step in.

Saying to ban something for what happened to you in PoM doesn't help server population numbers

[Penish]

i wander whi we hav c0rpse timErs

buhhhhguhh?

[Mystero]

Wouldn't the person switching to a different toon be technically ninja looting? Mind blown!

[Videri]

Wouldn't the person switching to a different toon be technically ninja looting? Mind blown!

Not at all. The rules are posted (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651). We who play here must read them.

[skyfoxnz85]

Just put yourself on someone else's shoes. How would you feel if someone loot and walk away that supposed to belong to you or your alt? Doesn't matter if it is epic piece or quest item.

[Rader]

How is this different than if I drop an item on the ground, and as I switch characters someone else walks by and picks it up? Pretty sure the ninja looter in that case is off scott free, no?

[skyfoxnz85]

How is this different than if I drop an item on the ground, and as I switch characters someone else walks by and picks it up? Pretty sure the ninja looter in that case is off scott free, no?

Not sure about other country but in South Korea, it is the case of a crime (Embezzlements of Lost Articles or disposal of stolen goods and embezzlement) where in you take someone else's asset or belonging against owners will. You have to report to nearest police station or lost&found box of the same building. In game, I would wait for couple of mins (5-10) and double check with OOC before I permanently place in my inventory. It's small community and I think it wouldn't hurt to be more thoughtful than real life. :)

[zelld52]

How is this different than if I drop an item on the ground, and as I switch characters someone else walks by and picks it up? Pretty sure the ninja looter in that case is off scott free, no?

the only reason this isnt punishable is because theres no trace of it.

whereas the GMs can check combat log and see that the looter was not on combat log. they will refer to the person who was on combat log to see if they wanted to loot it on another toon

[WizardEQ]

I can't restate this enough. If you are a new player and you just do something that's not allowed but clearly in good faith, you will not get banned. You will not even be punished. You might even make friends, just tell people you're new and they will understand.

You get banned by flagrantly defying clearly stated rules (FYI: staff assumes you are aware of the main server rules) and being combative when called out. Every single person who has ever complained about being unjustly banned on P99 was a douche or completely deserve it. Prove me wrong (you can't). P99 staff is laissez-faire to a fault. They don't moderate enough. If you get banned by them then you were bad enough to make the most hands-off moderation staff wake up and do something instead of slacking.

Excellent points! Anyone who was smacked with a permanent full ban is a douche and should never be able to play on P99 again. This is different from a 1-2 week ban, which does happen quite frequently.

[WizardEQ]

How is this different than if I drop an item on the ground, and as I switch characters someone else walks by and picks it up? Pretty sure the ninja looter in that case is off scott free, no?

Ground transfers are very risky and explicitly "at your own risk." I have done it before with stuff like silk or other mats, but never with a lore or legacy item. If you do ground transfer and someone does pick it up, there is going to be no proof that you had ownership. So in that case possession is 9/10's of the law and the GM won't rule in your favor.

[cd288]

the only reason this isnt punishable is because theres no trace of it.

whereas the GMs can check combat log and see that the looter was not on combat log. they will refer to the person who was on combat log to see if they wanted to loot it on another toon

Not sure that this is a correct statement.

I believe there is a way to track drop transfers in the logs. At least there was back in the day on live. Plus I'm pretty sure P99 staff have said before that they can track RMT that's done via drop transfer, otherwise it would be super easy to, for example, drop transfer a fungi tunic to someone that you sold online for real money.

They've just made a decision that drop transfers are simply an at your own risk type of thing (which is classic, for what it's worth).

[Troxx]

I’ve drop traded over 100k in gear to an alt before.

Single items like fungi tunic a half dozen times or more.

Risk is low if you’re smart about scouting location. Just pray you don’t crash or your internet goes out.

[BigChief]

You are only allowed to loot corpses of mobs you killed. Anything else is at your own risk.

OK, so the alt logging in did not kill it either

[Rader]

OK, so the alt logging in did not kill it either

There you go again, trying to use logic

[Bardp1999]

Im guessing this is for like an AC ring or something. Dont loot shit not yours

[fortior]

OK, so the alt logging in did not kill it either

'You' means a person, not a character.

[ahalls2015]

Could be a simple mistake from someone not knowing better. Imo address it with them and if they offer recompense or apology then they probably didn't mean to do it. If they're douche canoes then they get whatever comes from the lawmsn