Warrior aggro issues overblown?

[Koventhia]

I just want to know exactly how bad Warrior aggro is. I know that they rely pretty much entirely on auto attack damage + procs for aggro, and that you have to have specific weapons with good aggro procs ( Gnoll Hide Lariat/ Obsidian Shard, Polished Granite Tomahawk etc) or your aggro generation will bite, but is that the end of it?

I've been hearing that taunt is really screwed up on this server, and that even with decent weapons that have aggro procs that Warriors can't hold aggro worth a damn. Is this just hyperbole or is there truth to it? I'm interested in playing a tank as I was able to aquire a set of Banded Mail (being a new player I guess I should run with any advantage I can get) but there is no way I can deal with a 40% exp penalty, so Warrior it is. Just worried about all this talk about them having terrible, terrible aggro. :confused:

[Ektar]

warriors can hold agro. you just need (1) to know how taunt works and (2) group members that realize they aren't dealing with a knight tank.

I guess I kinda just made that up but it sounds good to me.

[quizwhiz]

I support Ektar's answer because he did a transfer for me in the middle of Qeynos Hills and seems like a decent guy.

That and green is my favorite color, his avatar is green, thus his response is solid.

[Shiggy]

I support Ektar's answer because he did a transfer for me in the middle of Qeynos Hills and seems like a decent guy.

That and green is my favorite color, his avatar is green, thus his response is solid.

I like green too

[Swish]

I've not played a warrior to know exactly how bad, but as a cleric with a warrior tank... aggro sprays all over the place. I never get mad at the warrior, he's working with what little he's got (some hate building weapons etc) but the sad truth is there's more mana breaks with a warrior tank.

As a result everyone forgets that they had something else to do, that they need to take their dog for a 5 hour walk or that work called them up suddenly (and they log back in 45 minutes later).

With the lack of tanks on the server you'll always be in demand, but its not an easy path to walk ;)

[Estu]

1) Making a tank just because you got a suit of banded is a terrible idea. You can level up whatever character you're currently using a few levels and make enough money to buy a suit of banded easily. Banded isn't some kind of magical armor that makes tanking effortless; I'd understand if you got a mosscovered twig and wanted to roll a monk, or something, but a suit of banded is not going to make a huge difference for any character, and is super easy to buy anyway.

2) The 40% EXP penalty doesn't matter nearly as much in a group. If you're grouped with four other people of equal level who have no EXP penalty, your 40% penalty effectively becomes an 8% penalty because the penalty is "spread" to the entire group. So if you are hell-bent on making a tank, don't let the penalty be what stops you from making a paladin or shadowknight. Both classes have excellent aggro abilities and are way less boring than warriors, who have all of four buttons to push.

3) As for the actual question: warriors do have trouble holding aggro, it's true. Taunt doesn't work on even-or-higher con mobs, period. On blue cons, it will often work, but it only puts your threat at 1 point above the previous maximum, so all that character has to do is hit the monster again and it's no longer on you if you're doing less DPS. It also doesn't work on mobs over level 50, if I recall correctly. Your weapon damage on its own won't be enough to hold aggro since you may have a monk, rogue, or ranger doing greater weapon damage. That leaves you with weapon procs, which happen randomly and still aren't an end-all-be-all for aggro holding. This isn't to say that warriors can't tank, but they're certainly at a disadvantage compared to knights in terms of holding aggro. Your group will have to take certain precautions for you, like waiting a while to let you grow aggro before they start attacking the mob, using roots and the like, and so on.

Basically, warrior tanking is definitely doable, but it requires good proc weapons and a careful group, and it's boring because you have almost no active skills at your disposal. Knights have a much easier time with aggro and more stuff they can do. But you shouldn't be making a character just because you got a suit of banded, period; you should think about whether you'd actually enjoy playing the character, and whether you'd maybe prefer to first level up your main (whatever it is) and get some plat so you can then twink out your tank alt (this would be especially beneficial for a warrior).

[Ektar]

yeah. that's what I meant to say. ^^

[Kevlar]

overblown? snap aggro was always an issue for waariors until what, planes? really dumb game design to not give the only pure tank in the game some form of snap aggro. all the hybrids get awesome utility *and* tank better than wars in xp groups. taking a little less damage is not a good trade off for your dps slots having to hold back 50% or more. i play a war and can barely hold aggro over a shaman who just slows, dots, and meds.

[YendorLootmonkey]

overblown? snap aggro was always an issue for waariors until what, planes? really dumb game design to not give the only pure tank in the game some form of snap aggro. all the hybrids get awesome utility *and* tank better than wars in xp groups. taking a little less damage is not a good trade off for your dps slots having to hold back 50% or more. i play a war and can barely hold aggro over a shaman who just slows, dots, and meds.

The game would be EZ mode if the best tank class could keep the mob on them at all times. If a group/raid wants the benefit of the class that is able to withstand the most damage tanking, that comes at the cost of putting a little extra effort in managing their own aggro.

[Koventhia]

Thanks for the answers, point taken guys.

I didn't really start raiding on live (and therefore becoming aware of what tanks could do what, like I said I played a Necro and soloed 95% of the time) until Warriors had Incite and hate augments, so there weren't really any aggro issues anymore.

Guess I'll ditch the Warrior.

[bakkily]

usally for one, the better weapons you have, better agro you can hold

for instance, if you have good proc weapons for your lvl, the better, by lvl 37 you should be able to buy two yaks, but just get the best weapons you can, and keep your taunt up

[Ashimar]

All you need to do is get 2 Ykeshan War Clubs. You won't lose aggro. provided you are the level req' for them to proc.

[falkun]

All you need to do is get 2 Ykeshan War Clubs. You won't lose aggro. provided you are the level req' for them to proc.

The War Club (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Ykeshan_War_Club) has 1 more damage than the Short Sword of the Ykesha (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Short_Sword_of_the_Ykesha), the same delay (so same PPM), doesn't proc until 3 levels higher, and looks like ass compared to the SSOY. Personally, I'd take the 2SSoYs which can be purchased for dirt cheap now.

Can someone explain how SSoYs tanked in value so hard?

O, and does the snare fromSilken Whip of Ensnaring (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Silken_Whip_of_Ensnaring) generate more aggro than SSoY? Basically, why is something with a -5AC mod a better tanking weapon than something without a negative AC mod?

[Harrison]

Alternatives are now abundant. There is less of a demand for them regardless of their effectiveness not having changed.

[falkun]

Alternatives are now abundant. There is less of a demand for them regardless of their effectiveness not having changed.

And this is why I'm an engineer, because I would fail Econ101. Thanks.

(not sarcastic)

[Kevlar]

at lower levels wars can compensate for low aggrro generation with twink gear. that doesnt really help for non twinks or people with level appropriate gear. warriors were a broken class in classic. nothing challenging about them, they just dont work. they are incapable of doing their job using level appropriate gear on level appropriate content. warriors were not fixed until around the 4th expansion.

[deneauth]

Might be too late to change opinions, but I used a gnoll hide lariat and an obsidian shard with a full suit of banded on my warrior untill i started working on my Crafted quests around lvl 30. I used the lariat/shard until the 40's when I finally got yaks. The only thing that really makes warrior tanking more difficult now is the proccing formula's have changed a bit so make friends with a shaman and get some dex buffs.

[Kevlar]

severly nerfing your dmg output by using the lariate isnt really a viable solution for hunting in your 30~40s. yes you can hold aggro a little better. but now you are contributing nothing to the group. a knight or ranger can tank with a big honking 2 hander doing double attacks well over 200 dmg and hold aggro with flame lick/snare or disease cloud/darkness all day long.

meanwhile the war with the gimp weapons contributes no dps and still ping pongs aggro when they dont proc.

but hey its classic!

[Anger]

I just want to know exactly how bad Warrior aggro is. I know that they rely pretty much entirely on auto attack damage + procs for aggro, and that you have to have specific weapons with good aggro procs ( Gnoll Hide Lariat/ Obsidian Shard, Polished Granite Tomahawk etc) or your aggro generation will bite, but is that the end of it?

I've been hearing that taunt is really screwed up on this server, and that even with decent weapons that have aggro procs that Warriors can't hold aggro worth a damn. Is this just hyperbole or is there truth to it? I'm interested in playing a tank as I was able to aquire a set of Banded Mail (being a new player I guess I should run with any advantage I can get) but there is no way I can deal with a 40% exp penalty, so Warrior it is. Just worried about all this talk about them having terrible, terrible aggro. :confused:

Many people forget that warrior agro was very similar on live during the Kunark era. Warriors weren't supposed to be able to snap agro like SK's/Pallys.

Just gotta wait til you see three sunders on the mob.

[Kevlar]

Just gotta wait til you see three sunders on the mob.

if only EQ had sunder! then wars might work. execute would be nice too!

[Atmas]

I thought it was in Velious they changed taunt to have a chance to work on mobs higher lvl than the warrior. I'm probably wrong though.

[greatdane]

You just have to ask your group to wait five seconds before they engage. If you have decent weapons, this should allow you to generate enough threat to hold it steadily until you get a proc, at which point you're fine if people don't go nuts. It's the waiting that people can't cope with because new MMORPGs teach players not to wait for anything. If warriors had easy aggro, you might as well delete the paladin and shadowknight classes.

[Dantes]

Warrior aggro generation is overblown just like the hybrid experience penalty in groups - so we're about even when it comes to finding groups.

O, and does the snare fromSilken Whip of Ensnaring (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Silken_Whip_of_Ensnaring) generate more aggro than SSoY? Basically, why is something with a -5AC mod a better tanking weapon than something without a negative AC mod?

No, unfortunately it doesn't. Snare does generate some aggro but not nearly as much as Ykesha. The -5 AC is marginal in the least, when you have more than 1000 AC, who cares? I think it's popular because of the ratio, it makes a great offhander. You can use it to squeeze out more DPS while still maintaining some aggro, but I'd much rather main-hand a Sarnak Warhammer or anything that procs Ykesha - those work much better than the whip.

[Kevlar]

why delete them? they tank better than warriors and they have utility abilities that allow them to solo or add value to groups beyond just tanking.

warriors really should be the "best" tank including aggro generation. something WoW got right from the start. EQ didnt get it together until much later with discs, gear, and aoe taunt.

[Duie]

the secret in tanking is very simple
/g hey that ranger is pretty good , lets get him

/tell ranger make sure to root the mob im on so i can build agro
/ranger tells grou- WOW man your agro is great
/ranger tells you- Just go with it :P


I wont mention the said ranger name but he is a lootmonkey