Is pulling mobs off a bard kite of more than 4 mobs allowed?

[Grunthos]

We have a guild member ask and I have been searching the forums all morning for some kind of official ruling on this other than You may not steal kills.

I have found lots of posts referring to a GM ruling that it is OK if they have more than 4 mobs - but I cannot find an official rule or post on the topic. I am hoping someone with better search skills than I might be able to provide a link to the formal ruling?

Thanks!

[WarpathEQ]

AFAIK there is no rule that allows you to take mobs from a player that is actively kiting or has them agro'd. In fact any such rule would render one of the main strategies that bards use to level completely useless. Doing so would fall sqaurely inside of the definition of kill stealing and therefore would be a punishable offense.

1. You may not steal kills.

Kill Stealing is defined as the killing of an NPC for any reason that is already fighting or pursuing another player or group that is prepared to engage that same NPC without that group's specific permission.

[Grunthos]

AFAIK there is no rule that allows you to take mobs from a player that is actively kiting or has them agro'd. In fact any such rule would render one of the main strategies that bards use to level completely useless. Doing so would fall sqaurely inside of the definition of kill stealing and therefore would be a punishable offense.

1. You may not steal kills.

Kill Stealing is defined as the killing of an NPC for any reason that is already fighting or pursuing another player or group that is prepared to engage that same NPC without that group's specific permission.

Yep - I am well aware of rule 1. However it has been discussed for years that if a bard has a high mob count kite and you have nothing to kill you can take mobs from the kite.

I talked to Stigion on discord this AM, (I play on green) and per GM ruling, pulling mobs off a swarm kite is allowed if the Bard has more than 4 mobs in the kite and you have nothing to kill due to the bard monopolizing spawns.

The reasoning is that its takes a long time to establish the kite and kills the mobs, and this ties up many many mobs in a very slow kill cycle that deprives other players of normal opportunities to kill mobs.

[Grunthos]

Derbadger — Today at 8:33 AM
Question - has there ever been an official post or ruling regarding the legality / allowability of pulling mobs off a Bard Kite?
[8:36 AM]
been searching the forums all morning and there seems to be a general understanding that it is OK to pull mobs off if they have more than 4 and there ar eno other spawns readily available. But the only "official" rule I can find is rule 1 - Don't kill steak a mob someone else is engaged on.
[8:37 AM]
one of our members had a dispute with a bard that was swarm kiting over him pickin out occasionial mobs (in unrest). The bard says it is against rule 1. I am trying to find the original ruling (from blue I think?) , but I suck at the intarwebs. (edited)

Derbadger — Today at 8:43 AM
I have looked into this before when people complained about <redacted> kiting, and never found anything concrete.

Stigion — Today at 9:00 AM
Yeah we allow people to grab mobs out of bards swarms if they have more than 4 and no other mobs are around

Derbadger — Today at 9:06 AM
Thank you!

[WarpathEQ]

Good times.

Another shining example of the actual rules not being the actual rules. Looks like the new meta is going to be follow the bard's kite, let them do most of the work then just pick off half dead mobs for easy kills. I'm sure that won't be toxic at all...

And of course we want to be as vague as possible by adding in subjective qualifiers like "no other mobs are around"

You gotta love a rule system that incentivizes people to do the wrong things as much as possible to maximize the amount of GM disputes they are involved in to then gain a GM's understanding of the rules which differ from the actual written rules so they can use that against other players knowing the GM will rule in their favor in future disputes and that they are allowed to play the game in a way that no other reasonable rule abiding person is.

[Toxigen]

Found the bard.

[Valakut]

i wouldn't KS under any circumstances. breaking rule A because someone else was breaking rule B is going to get both of you suspended.

you're better off petitioning for zone disruption if that is what is occurring. and taking fraps/screenshots and posting to RNF and allow the peoples court to decide.

[mcoy]

In unrest? That's clearly zone disruption. Bards have many other nearly-vacant zones to pull their shenanigans in.

That said, I've never had a problem in zones like LOIO if I send a (polite) tell to the bard and ask them to skip pulling from x building on their next round because I'm trying to get some sweet xp too.

-Mcoy

[Toxigen]

Not only is it allowed, it should be encouraged. Damn the filthy swarming bards.

[magnetaress]

I miss being able to root naked bards on red99 that isn't allowed anymore tho :(

[Rader]

So what if I just agro every mob in the zone and then just run around in circles forever and do no damage

Isn't this expressly DISALLOWED in raids (its called stalling?)

[ragontx]

This is why in Quarm theynerfed bards to quads only LoL

[enjchanter]

I'd say just do whatever you want cuz it's not likely a gm will show up anyway

[Grunthos]

In unrest? That's clearly zone disruption. Bards have many other nearly-vacant zones to pull their shenanigans in.

That said, I've never had a problem in zones like LOIO if I send a (polite) tell to the bard and ask them to skip pulling from x building on their next round because I'm trying to get some sweet xp too.

-Mcoy

Yeah - friendly discourse smooths out most bumps in P99. *I* have never had any issues with swarm kiting either, aside from getting killed in Chardok a couple times when a bard was over-enthusiastic and got some casters in his kite and it wend sideways and turned into a massive train. I can never decide if I should be impressed or annoyed when a bard has a large kite going off to the right of CE. It is pretty impressive that they can do it in such a tight area.

Anyhow this post was just me trying to clarify a ruling to be certain it was official for one of our guild members. I have done so directly with a green server GM and I posted the conversation with time/date stamps above so others can reference it if need be.

[Rader]

Yeah - friendly discourse smooths out most bumps in P99. *I* have never had any issues with swarm kiting either, aside from getting killed in Chardok a couple times when a bard was over-enthusiastic and got some casters in his kite and it wend sideways and turned into a massive train. I can never decide if I should be impressed or annoyed when a bard has a large kite going off to the right of CE. It is pretty impressive that they can do it in such a tight area.

Anyhow this post was just me trying to clarify a ruling to be certain it was official for one of our guild members. I have done so directly with a green server GM and I posted the conversation with time/date stamps above so others can reference it if need be.

I must say, as annoying as swarming and kiting can be, I just write it off to comp. What bothers me beyond acceptance is when the bard is careless and drops twenty+ mobs on my 6 cause they couldn't be bothered to swarm in an isolated spot but felt compelled to bring their train near me before dying. Glad you can get the xp back with like one more swarm...

[Grunthos]

So what if I just agro every mob in the zone and then just run around in circles forever and do no damage

Isn't this expressly DISALLOWED in raids (its called stalling?)

Not disallowed - Kiting is a normal method for crowd control in Fear and PoG and even ToV inner ring. You do eventually kill the stuff, but it takes a while.

If a single player did that while causing NO damage, that is called zone disruption in that case. Raid rules do not relate to single player actions, but Rule 10 does.

Bards are actually killing the stuff so if they are not wiping out other people it is allowed and not TECHNICALLY a violation of rule 10, until it starts to impact other players.

[Grunthos]

I must say, as annoying as swarming and kiting can be, I just write it off to comp. What bothers me beyond acceptance is when the bard is careless and drops twenty+ mobs on my 6 cause they couldn't be bothered to swarm in an isolated spot but felt compelled to bring their train near me before dying. Glad you can get the xp back with like one more swarm...

I agree. And in those cases you can probably petition for zone disruption, may even be able to talk a GM into a 100% rez if you are nice.

[Naethyn]

If a bard shows up at my camp and starts pulling everything I will take 4 mobs every single time and the veteran bards who know what they are doing allow it.

[Crede]

So what if I just agro every mob in the zone and then just run around in circles forever and do no damage

Isn't this expressly DISALLOWED in raids (its called stalling?)

It’s allowed to pull mobs off a kite if they are taking over the entire zone. This is less common though since the 25 mob limit was added.

[wuanahto]

Taking the 5th or more target off a Bard is just the gateway drug into doing other shit like walking into a king camp and claiming the king and saying its fair and valid because they can have the other spawns. or using a wall of ogres to keep people out of ToV. or making a new account with just a monk on it saying "sorry accident and paniked" or "sorry didnt know ... 'training' you called it? yeah sorry again but i am already setup here"

Just dont do it, move on, other alt, other game, other server, other zones

[Rader]

Taking the 5th or more target off a Bard is just the gateway drug into doing other shit like walking into a king camp and claiming the king and saying its fair and valid because they can have the other spawns. or using a wall of ogres to keep people out of ToV. or making a new account with just a monk on it saying "sorry accident and paniked" or "sorry didnt know ... 'training' you called it? yeah sorry again but i am already setup here"

Just dont do it, move on, other alt, other game, other server, other zones

but Bards taking more mobs than they can do damage to is not a gateway drug to doing other nefarious shit... not buying that, sorry, next lame apologist argument please

[wuanahto]

See Rader's post? that is what you turn into 7 years thinking stuff like that is ok.
and 10% of thoughts like that being buzzwords he learned from others trying to justify vigilantism to full blown villainy is hard to ignore

[Bigcountry23]

Derbadger — Today at 8:33 AM
Question - has there ever been an official post or ruling regarding the legality / allowability of pulling mobs off a Bard Kite?
[8:36 AM]
been searching the forums all morning and there seems to be a general understanding that it is OK to pull mobs off if they have more than 4 and there ar eno other spawns readily available. But the only "official" rule I can find is rule 1 - Don't kill steak a mob someone else is engaged on.
[8:37 AM]
one of our members had a dispute with a bard that was swarm kiting over him pickin out occasionial mobs (in unrest). The bard says it is against rule 1. I am trying to find the original ruling (from blue I think?) , but I suck at the intarwebs. (edited)

Derbadger — Today at 8:43 AM
I have looked into this before when people complained about <redacted> kiting, and never found anything concrete.

Stigion — Today at 9:00 AM
Yeah we allow people to grab mobs out of bards swarms if they have more than 4 and no other mobs are around

Derbadger — Today at 9:06 AM
Thank you!

Stigion is 100% trolling you...
If it's not documented anywhere, do at your own risk and prepare to take a week off.