Sortable Race Class XP Matrix

[Krait]

I just added this to the wiki. You can sort by Required XP Modifier or any of the columns.

http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Sortable_Race_Class_Matrix

Feel free to fill in the Half Elf city options if you know them, otherwise I'll look them up later.

I considered adding a column for each of the starting stats to this but wondered if it'd be as useful as it would be a pain to add? Also thinking about somehow adding racial abilities. Anything else you'd like to see in this chart?

[Piff]

good work.
starting stats would be a pain and deserve their own chart.

edit 2: does anyone remember the starting stats charts that used to be on castersrealm? those were great.

[SirAlvarex]

Funny to see an Iksar SK at 1.68, and a halfling warrior at .855. In other words, leveling an Iksar SK is almost like leveling a halfling warrior to 60...twice.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Funny to see an Iksar SK at 1.68, and a halfling warrior at .855. In other words, leveling an Iksar SK is almost like leveling a halfling warrior to 60...twice.

Assuming they both solo'd, sure. It's really a table more useful to see who's polluting your group with them shared exp penalties <_<

Levelin an iksar SK atm, /grin

[Pyrocat]

Added to the F.A.Q.

[Zubek]

You left off half elf pally.

[Krait]

Added to the F.A.Q.

Awesome thanks!

One thing to note is that exp penalties are multiplied not added: a troll shadowknight would be at a 1.4 (SK) x 1.2 (TRL) = 1.68 or 68% penalty. Until the July 2010 patch the racial exp mods were slightly off. Ogres were getting the halfling bonus instead of a penalty, .etc. Full details are available here.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=89056&postcount=39

Oh wow, so Project 1999 is pre that patch right now? If so I think I'll add another column for that number.

[Krait]

You left off half elf pally.

I have added this and fixed the Character Races wiki page that I got my info from. Thanks for catching it!

[Seaweedpimp]

I thought hlf rog & war had the same exp mod, no?

[Nytewind TP]

I thought hlf rog & war had the same exp mod, no?

I believe Warriors get a bonus, Rogues dont.

[Messianic]

I believe Warriors get a bonus, Rogues dont.

Both get a bonus. Warriors = 10%, rogues = 5%

[maestrom]

Assuming they both solo'd, sure. It's really a table more useful to see who's polluting your group with them shared exp penalties <_<

Levelin an iksar SK atm, /grin

Not assuming they both soloed.

a halfling warrior requires 0.855exp, an iksar SK requires 1.68exp

settem equal, 0.855x = 1.68x and you're left with x(halfling war) = 1.96x (iksar sk)

a halfling at level X will have Y experience, an iksar at that same level X will have 1.96Y experience. It doesn't matter where that exp came from.

Example. Lets assume a few things (for illustrative purposes)
Assume experience is distributed evenly throughout the levels. It takes the same amount to ding level 2 as it does level 60.

Lets also assume that monsters will give the same amount of experience regardless of group makeup or level.

Also, lets assume it takes the halfling 1000 exp points for each level, so at level 60 it will have 59,000 exp (you start at level 1) it will then take the iksar 1.96(59,000) = 115,640 exp to get to level 60

A halfling warrior and an iksar SK start at level 1 (0 experience) and group together. Lets say they kill a bunch and they both have 59,000 experience. the halfling just got to level 60! yay! but that poor iksar is ((115,640/59 = 1960) (59,000/1960=30) still level 31 (you have to add a level because you start at level 1) The iksar still has 115,640 - 59,000 = 56,640 experience to go. So he could pick up another halfling and he would get to level 60 around the same time that halfling gets to almost 58.


If you want to take away the assumptions you can look at my post here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=326902#post326902).

I assume nice round numbers for exp values to make the calculations simpler. I don't know the true values for the exp requirements or i would include them in a giant big post (i'm also too lazy to speculate).

tl;dr: Your level is decided by your exp total, it doesn't matter how you acquired the exp.

[Pyrocat]

Awesome thanks!



Oh wow, so Project 1999 is pre that patch right now? If so I think I'll add another column for that number.

No, I meant the July 2010 patch on project 1999. That note is there solely for historical purposes. Exp mods are working just as listed in the wiki.

[runlvlzero]

nice, i always thought ogre SK was the worst until I used your little sorty thing =) now I see their not quite as bad as trolls =)

[Krait]

No, I meant the July 2010 patch on project 1999. That note is there solely for historical purposes. Exp mods are working just as listed in the wiki.

Cool thanks, you almost made me roll an ogre =)

[Dr4z3r]

Not assuming they both soloed.

a halfling warrior requires 0.855exp, an iksar SK requires 1.68exp

settem equal, 0.855x = 1.68x and you're left with x(halfling war) = 1.96x (iksar sk)

[...]

tl;dr: Your level is decided by your exp total, it doesn't matter how you acquired the exp.

While your numbers are all correct (except for 'x = 1.96x,' that's off a bit), you're not taking into account the way leveling actually happens. Let's take the example of the HFL-WAR grouping with the IKS-SK: it's impossible for them both to level to 60 while in the same group, because the Iksar will stop gaining experience when the Halfling out-levels him too far. Similarly, the Iksar can't then pick up a level 1 Halfling, because the Halfling won't gain experience in that group.

How likely do you think a level 49 Halfling Cleric is to group with a level 41 Iksar Shadowknight? Well, they have the same XP total (source: http://web.archive.org/web/20010804022525/hackersquest.gomp.ch/html/xp/xpchart.html). The fact is that people tend to group with others around the same level as themselves, because that's what makes it easiest to gauge how tough the fights will be, and maximize the group's ability to kill things.

If everyone only grouped with people of the exact same experience total, then the penalties would clearly show who'd spent way more time. But since they don't, it happens more like this:

HFL CLR (150,000,000 xp) duoing with IKS SK (275,000,000 xp) kills a mob worth 1,000 xp. The group bonus is applied (1.02*1,000=1020), and the xp is split proportionally ([150/425]*1020=360) with 360 to the Halfling and 660 to the Iksar, meaning that Iksar is getting 1.8333... times the xp that the Halfling is getting per mob.

[Atmas]

Both get a bonus. Warriors = 10%, rogues = 5%

I thought it was actually Warriors = 10%, Rogues = 9%

[Atmas]

While your numbers are all correct (except for 'x = 1.96x,' that's off a bit), you're not taking into account the way leveling actually happens. Let's take the example of the HFL-WAR grouping with the IKS-SK: it's impossible for them both to level to 60 while in the same group, because the Iksar will stop gaining experience when the Halfling out-levels him too far. Similarly, the Iksar can't then pick up a level 1 Halfling, because the Halfling won't gain experience in that group.


From what I looked at on the game mechanics of the wiki HFL-War and the IKS-SK would level at the same rate if they were in the same group. Though they amount they need to level is different the SK would take a proportionally higher amount of XP per kill.

If they were soloing and killed the same number of mobs the SK would not have leveled as much.

Unless I'm wrong people mis-state the penalty as a group penalty. You don't recieve less XP just because you are grouped with a certain class/race. You may recieve less XP because you get a proportional amount to your total XP versus their XP and you would likely be grouping with even level players who if Hybrid have more total XP.

[Messianic]

I thought it was actually Warriors = 10%, Rogues = 9%

You may be right - I think i confused the rogue bonus with the halfling bonus.

[Dr4z3r]

Unless I'm wrong people mis-state the penalty as a group penalty. You don't recieve less XP just because you are grouped with a certain class/race. You may recieve less XP because you get a proportional amount to your total XP versus their XP and you would likely be grouping with even level players who if Hybrid have more total XP.

You should read Maestrom's post here: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=326902#post326902

[maestrom]

While your numbers are all correct (except for 'x = 1.96x,' that's off a bit), you're not taking into account the way leveling actually happens. Let's take the example of the HFL-WAR grouping with the IKS-SK: it's impossible for them both to level to 60 while in the same group, because the Iksar will stop gaining experience when the Halfling out-levels him too far. Similarly, the Iksar can't then pick up a level 1 Halfling, because the Halfling won't gain experience in that group.


You missed one of my simplifying assumptions that all mobs give the same amount of experience to everyone regardless of level/exp/race/class. The purpose of this example wasn't to show the details behind how level affects experience distribution, just that exp totals and your level don't change depending on your leveling method. Of course level matters when making your groups.

x(halfling war) = 1.96x (iksar sk)

I suppose i could have used different notation. Looking back I should have said iksar sk = 1.96(halfling war) instead of labeling the x's

[ryandward]

Make the delimiter ", " not ","

Although I am particularly picky as a DB architect.

[Krait]

Make the delimiter ", " not ","

Although I am particularly picky as a DB architect.

What are you talking about Sir? Its a table... are you using some crazy wiki skin or something?

[Estu]

I'd just like to point out that that same halfling warrior and iksar SK, if they started grouping together at level TWO, would reach 60 at the same time.

[maestrom]

I'd just like to point out that that same halfling warrior and iksar SK, if they started grouping together at level TWO, would reach 60 at the same time.

I am 99.99% sure that's not how it works.

I would be interested to see a test though. Hybrids and those races were supposed to level much slower than other race class combos. I was under the impression (though I haven't seen the real numbers) that when a mob died, exp was distributed more or less evenly and the adjustment for exp totals was only part of the distribution equation instead of being the only factor.

I see the reasoning behind your argument though. It's possible that the game will take a look at the exp total of the entire group, assign weights to each character in the group based on their contribution to that group exp total, and then divide exp from that mob to each player based only on their weight. The only reason i think this is not the case is I remember leveling my bard and watching group mates catch and pass me in exp (no deaths). This can't happen in the above model because in that case, no player should ever catch or overtake another player when grouped with them.

[Estu]

I am 99.99% sure that's not how it works

According to this guide (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Game_Mechanics#How_Experience_Works), that's how it works.

[Lazortag]

Estu is right. But if either of them hands in crushbone belts or does other exp-giving quests then they won't level at the same rate. That's probably why he specified level 2, since the turn-in item gives you exp.

[Estu]

Estu is right. But if either of them hands in crushbone belts or does other exp-giving quests then they won't level at the same rate. That's probably why he specified level 2, since the turn-in item gives you exp.

I actually specified level 2 because of a point made in an earlier thread: if EXP is divided according to TOTAL EXP, then a level 1 halfling and a level 1 iksar always grouping together will always have the same amount of EXP each, since they both presumably start at 0. Then the halfling really would level much faster than the iksar. If you get them both to 2, though, then they will have EXP proportional to their EXP penalties/bonuses.

However, maybe the EQ devs took this oversight into account and made some fix for the level 1 case, like starting out everyone with some unseen starting EXP proportional to their EXP penalty/bonus. Anyway, it's kind of a stupid special case; what's important is if you both start at level 2, at least, then you'll both reach level 60 at the same time.

[maestrom]

That's really weird. Makes the math simpler though.