I've never played World of Warcraft

[azeth]

Anyone hyped up on enough coffee this morning to draw parallels between vanilla WoW and the early expansions so I can better understand the draw that the game had?

Was itemization done perfectly where you felt compelled to chase upgrades?

What was the social interaction like when trying to put together pick up groups?

Identify some of the most sought-after pieces of equipment that would leave a noobs mouth agape when they saw somebody with it equipped. What were the hurdles you had to jump through to get those pieces of gear? How difficult were the raids, the group content, etc..

I've seen a few videos from various streamers and YouTubers where it seems like loot was distributed by the raid leader based on only their discretion. Is that accurate, and what about that process made it fair for people?

Was PVP toxic? Were there meta classes and skill configurations that you felt obligated to use to avoid being steamrolled?

Ultimately just looking for somebody to contextualize this experience with the classic EverQuest experience.

[magnetaress]

It was more casual and more active play for vanilla than EQ classic. Faster pace. Still quite a grind. Itemization was way better than EQ. PVP has always been toxic AF LOL. It was always buggy as heck in WoW there was always one meta build that was just so broken and OP if you wanted to pvp seriously you had to take all those gems or whatever.. the grind for pvp was insane and only crazy ppl would do it. But pvp was great for leveling back in the day (they nerfed that in modern wow) so it didn't matter as a noob u just let urself get wrecked and played with ur team. Got plenty exp.

EQ:
Slow pace.
More specificity.
More variance in classes and power lvls.
Less RNG as far as world drops.

Vanilla WoW:
Faster pace
Builds are specific but not non meta builds suck
More RNG in world drops (you could get randomly just gear from worlds)
However> questing and certain quest gear was more important in wow/more determined
PvP> Much better than EQ butt still very flawed needed massive grps to succeed in pvp zones otherwise you wouldnt be able to quest in a horde zone
Raids> Instanced
Random Blues X auction house/and crafted gear == best gear in game early on until u replace with raid loot --- I think there where some dungeons u had to run over and over to get some specific gear

As far as gameplay wize... EQ much better imo. WoW art is kinda generic but looks great also. EQ has more diverse environments. WoW has a ton more lore and way cooler more involved quests... like that paladin quest where u go to save the lady on the farm...

[Ciderpress]

I never played WoW either, I played EQ2 instead at launch (aaaaaaand then ended up back in EQ1 obv).

I've often wondered if WoW would have been nearly as popular if not for blizzard's long-established and already popular warcraft franchise. For some reason what turned me off is that it's not a fully original world, it's the lore from an RTS franchise plopped into an mmo. And I loved the warcraft rts games, but for some reason their association with WoW turned me off.

[magnetaress]

I think vanilla wow has a lot more content than classic EQ and in a more finished state.

Nothing like eqs dungeon designs though. Not really. All wow dungeons are fairly linear and you can skip the non linear parts.

Vanilla Blackrock depths tho is something else.

Vanilla wow raids are far more interesting than EQs. Tho plane of hate is special. Hard to top that zone.

[Iron Chob]

WoW addressed some of the critical MMO features in a different way to EQ.

The most obvious, and arguably important, was simply that of aggro management - EQ"s philosophy, oft-stated, was mob aggro is a group function - it is the responsibility of everyone to manage their own aggro relative to the tank.

WoW (I like to blame Furor, but it was in the game when he still doing PR work for WoW on the FOH forums before WoW's release) had a warrior taunt that worked - that alone shifted the goalposts for all group activity. Every warrior could hit an ability that (in almost every case, excepting high level raid mobs at the time and even then was successful upwards of 95%) guaranteed 6 seconds of aggro, on a 6 second cooldown.....eternal focused aggro for the tank. No more furiously hoping for a proc, or a successful taunt, or for the other group members to have clue....it didn't matter anymore.

Groups thus become less about synergies of competency but simply how fast could anything be burned down. The metric shifted from nuanced, risk-management to just.....faceroll. With enough DPS, anything could be overcome.

The fact the the world of EQ is put together to present challenges in every zone, that travel is inherently dangerous and death is costly, was once one of it's greatest attractions...WoW catered to safety being the norm and a ridiculous ease of resumption after dying, enabling the faceroll philosophy - just pew pew till its dead and if you die....NBD.

It was great fun....but by the third expac, I'd already quit twice, as had most of my guild - we moved as a guild from EQ1 to WoW, so competency/efficiency/content devouring wasn't an issue. It just became.....stale.

The best WoW PvE players would have zero chance of achieving anything in EQ - however, the reverse isn't true.

When there's almost always a mistake you can make in EQ that will lead to a lengthy CR for yourself if not a bunch of others, in addition to a progressively more punishing XP penalty....death is something to be avoided at all costs.

WoW made death less than a minor inconvenience and consequently suffered as a result. The design philosophy at the time took advantage of the time investment that EQ required and went the other direction - make everything easier and more accessible to the casual player.

Was itemization done perfectly where you felt compelled to chase upgrades? not until level 60 and gearing for raids...and you would be in much the same gear as the next person of your class, with the odd exception.

What was the social interaction like when trying to put together pick up groups? Easy, but there was little incentive to make friends from that - instances were over very quickly in comparison to a good xp group in EQ.

Identify some of the most sought-after pieces of equipment that would leave a noobs mouth agape when they saw somebody with it equipped. What were the hurdles you had to jump through to get those pieces of gear? How difficult were the raids, the group content, etc.. The original game had MC and Onyxia as the 40 person raid zones. MC was accessible after doing 1 quest in a 5 man group instance. Ony was a bit more involved, requiring a successful kill of the final boss of what was then a 10 man (2 group) dungeon instance.You could do both in a day, if you were anything like organised. With the tank enjoying the benefits of an almost unresistable taunt, and AoE being telegraphed, there was therefore no requirement for everyone to load up on a set of resist gear for example. Once you had 40 people it resumed the DPS is king approach....as with most guilds, we would give priority on gear upgrades at each new tier to the DPS. Tanks got the tank pieces and healers had to wait until the DPS already had the piece of gear. That approach is still widely adopted by raid guilds today, as out-healing spike damage is not about gear, but about using abilities....and spike damage is all that matters if you have sufficient DPS to burn anything down before the healers go OOM - extending a mana pool or increasing healing efficiency is secondary to 25-30 people doing 2-3% more DPS. They introduced DPS check mobs in the second raid zone, BWL and those became the bottleneck norms. Every subsequent raid zone had a DPS check raid boss.

I've seen a few videos from various streamers and YouTubers where it seems like loot was distributed by the raid leader based on only their discretion. Is that accurate, and what about that process made it fair for people? No, we did it the same as we had done it here - a combo of raid council and DKP

Was PVP toxic? Were there meta classes and skill configurations that you felt obligated to use to avoid being steamrolled? Of course lol.

It was certainly fun, but I often recall my guild leader from EQ saying to me in our first weeks on WoW....'It has no depth'.....she was damn right.

[magnetaress]

^ great post more in depth than me

[Evia]

Wow does a lot of things better than EQ. For example, quests.
What wow doesn't do as well, imho, is itemization. There are infinite amount of items you'll use leveling up that you will never remember.
Eq has iconic items that you can see without even having to inspect someone.

Outside of this, I truly do believe there isn't a single game that feels like EQ besides classic wow. If you can be OK with items not having any true value or meaning until raiding, I think it's a great alternative.

[magnetaress]

Selling junk in wow is a lot easier too. Wish takp had some of that QoL

[Old_PVP]

Classic WoW was a really fun game, full of many positives. There was a reason it had the highest subscription count at the time. Highest subscriptions ever perhaps?

The game was simplified with just the right amount of complexity to it. Only 2 teams, obviously. So right off the bat you knew who your enemies and allies were. Unlimited level range PVP which made it more of a team sport. Some of those zones were just hot spots for PVP and it was great fun. Battlegrounds made it even better, but also took away some of that organic world PVP at the same time, which wasn't good.

The quest system was a good way to make leveling more digestible for people who don't want to just mindlessly grind. It also allowed you to feel like you were making progress and completing zones. This inevitably took away some of that sense of adventure and "sandbox" feel though because quests would essentially handhold the player and tell them where to go next.

Overall, many QoL features like flight paths and auction houses, mailboxes, instance raiding, mounts, user friendliness which made it easy to lure friends in. Which were all probably good things.

[Toxigen]

The best WoW PvE players would have zero chance of achieving anything in EQ - however, the reverse isn't true.



lol yeah ok bub

if you think bleeding edge raiders couldnt figure out a CH chain....just...lol

i was one of the few US players to kill M'uru 1.0 (negative energy spell pushback) and then went on and did all of wotlk hard modes (except Yogg 0 alone in the darkness)

EQ is childs play compared to top end WoW raiding

[Ciderpress]

Speaking of CH chains, I always wonder if those were an intended mechanic or just an emergent thing by the playerbase trying to figure out how to kill bosses. Were the devs really thinking "Okay so, for them to kill this boss they'll have to get 20 clerics and have each of them start casting CH one second apart"? Cause that seems like a pretty specific thing to design on purpose.

[Toxigen]

Speaking of CH chains, I always wonder if those were an intended mechanic or just an emergent thing by the playerbase trying to figure out how to kill bosses. Were the devs really thinking "Okay so, for them to kill this boss they'll have to get 20 clerics and have each of them start casting CH one second apart"? Cause that seems like a pretty specific thing to design on purpose.

definitely not intended

[Trexller]

so then how the hell did they expect us to kill bosses

[Toxigen]

so then how the hell did they expect us to kill bosses

i think by velious with the drastic increase in mob hp and dmg, they were aware of the CH chain thing

classic and kunark can be killed without CH, 32k hp mobs wizzies go boom boom

[Ciderpress]

I seem to remember there was some kind of technical limitation that held mobs at 32khp, and then in velious they were able to get around that limit so there are like 1mhp bosses. They could have just kept the dragons at 32k and made them proc something that manataps only clerics or whatever.

I can't remember how long after velious release it took for aow to first be killed, anyone know that?

[Trexller]

I seem to remember there was some kind of technical limitation that held mobs at 32khp, and then in velious they were able to get around that limit so there are like 1mhp bosses. They could have just kept the dragons at 32k and made them proc something that manataps only clerics or whatever.

I can't remember how long after velious release it took for aow to first be killed, anyone know that?

IIRC fires of heaven killed AoW on the day of luclin launch

[Duik]

Southern Armada on Prexus killed much of velious early on.
Dunno when though. I was just a wannabe at that stage. Early 50's wizzie.

[Iron Chob]

lol yeah ok bub

if you think bleeding edge raiders couldnt figure out a CH chain....just...lol

i was one of the few US players to kill M'uru 1.0 (negative energy spell pushback) and then went on and did all of wotlk hard modes (except Yogg 0 alone in the darkness)

EQ is childs play compared to top end WoW raiding

I love internet posts that self-aggrandize beneath a veil of conversation.

Top end WoW raiders (modern day) wouldn't make it to raid level in EQ is the point you missed in your haste to dickwave. And pretty much all of WoW's Vanilla raiders learnt their trade in EQ....and many of them no longer play.

But feel free to elucidate on your interwebz exploits, I'm sure somebody is impressed.

[Tnair]

the single biggest difference for me was the linear game design.

in original EQ you are dumped in a city to start. you have a note with a name. theres no maps. if youre a dark elf or wood elf you are already in a place people famously need assistance to navigate. the wood elf can just die immediately by walking ten steps the wrong direction. you can attack any npc, including your own guildmaster by accident while just trying to type. if you even find your guild, they may have some text giving you a very very basic task or two, five newbie critter parts or whatever. where are the critters? where are you even? you dont know. you wander around lost and possibly dying a few times. you slowly learn your surroundings. you finally find enough of newbie critter to return the parts to your guild, they give you a piece of literal garbage, like a 1 ac cloak or something. after at minimum an hour of this you are level 2. you have no other leads from your guild after you get your 1 ac cloak. after several more hours you are level 4 or 5 and you have no choice but to go further out into the darkness.... inevitably dying or fleeing in a panic repeatedly as you learn how to travel anywhere and try to find places to safely kill things and/or profit.

WoW dumps you two steps from a Giant Exclamation Point man, who begins a chain (later a network) of essentially unbroken quest guidance for the entire game. you cant accidentally walk off an edge nearby and die. theres a map with clear markers. the newbie critters are standing on your foot when you spawn, theres a lot of them, and they have almost no chance to kill you. you have an automatic quest log that mostly, combined with your automatic map, functions as just an arrow saying "go this way, stop here, collect 10 item you find there". compared with eq, gear upgrades rain from the sky, and are likewise made obsolete quickly while leveling (almost immediately below level 20). the dungeons are not places to explore; they are puzzles with correct answers. there is no talking in dungeon groups except to explain a puzzle solution ("next boss has shield, go to room edges when shield up"), blame someone for solving the puzzle wrong, or loot distribution. because of the "theres just one right way and all deviations are just less optimal" design, other people are very likely to be telling you exactly what you should be doing in any fight AND what gear to wear.. theres no flexibility about whats considered acceptable. some people are simply fine with you being substandard, and (mostly) others arent.

EQ was designed to explore, in some cases, was literally designed to be unbeatable, and even today theres a lot of roads to take.

WoW was designed to be beaten, and theres just the one, beaten, path.

[Toxigen]

I love internet posts that self-aggrandize beneath a veil of conversation.

Top end WoW raiders (modern day) wouldn't make it to raid level in EQ is the point you missed in your haste to dickwave. And pretty much all of WoW's Vanilla raiders learnt their trade in EQ....and many of them no longer play.

But feel free to elucidate on your interwebz exploits, I'm sure somebody is impressed.

yeah no

sorry you're so vested in eq you think its hard because of time required

not sure if it still happens today but top end guilds would split their raid force into 5 or 6 groups of alts and clear zones that many times per week to funnel gear to mains before mythic progression...this was firelands / mop / etc

time sinks were not a roadblock back then and they arent today for the hardcore elite

[WarpathEQ]

Also never played WoW but as I recall it the timing of events was really the main draw. While EQ wasn't the first it was by far the largest MMO of its time with a relatively massive player base dedicating countless hours of their life over several years.

Then in quick succession you had both EQ2 and WoW dropping in November of 2004. At that point given the massive multiplayer component and its importance in this style of gameplay players were left with a choice...

1) Stick to existing EQ but take a huge step back due to server attrition and lose a bunch of people you enjoy playing with. There was largely an expectation that all dev work would migrate to EQ2 and that EQ would be left to die.
2) Start fresh on EQ2 which didn't really seem to have anything new or exciting to draw players into it was basically viewed as a new expansion except you lose your characters and gear.
3) Try WoW which was a completely different scratch built MMO, it was built off the beloved warcraft franchise which most people that were into EQ enjoyed, and its more cartoonish look had even more mass appeal to less hardcore gamers or casuals.

Sitting on the sidelines looking at your options WoW was a clear winner as it just had more mass appeal for a larger player base and from there the rest followed. I choose the uncommon option 4 of walking away from MMOs altogether for 20 years

[azeth]

the single biggest difference for me was the linear game design.

in original EQ you are dumped in a city to start. you have a note with a name. theres no maps. if youre a dark elf or wood elf you are already in a place people famously need assistance to navigate. the wood elf can just die immediately by walking ten steps the wrong direction. you can attack any npc, including your own guildmaster by accident while just trying to type. if you even find your guild, they may have some text giving you a very very basic task or two, five newbie critter parts or whatever. where are the critters? where are you even? you dont know. you wander around lost and possibly dying a few times. you slowly learn your surroundings. you finally find enough of newbie critter to return the parts to your guild, they give you a piece of literal garbage, like a 1 ac cloak or something. after at minimum an hour of this you are level 2. you have no other leads from your guild after you get your 1 ac cloak. after several more hours you are level 4 or 5 and you have no choice but to go further out into the darkness.... inevitably dying or fleeing in a panic repeatedly as you learn how to travel anywhere and try to find places to safely kill things and/or profit.

WoW dumps you two steps from a Giant Exclamation Point man, who begins a chain (later a network) of essentially unbroken quest guidance for the entire game. you cant accidentally walk off an edge nearby and die. theres a map with clear markers. the newbie critters are standing on your foot when you spawn, theres a lot of them, and they have almost no chance to kill you. you have an automatic quest log that mostly, combined with your automatic map, functions as just an arrow saying "go this way, stop here, collect 10 item you find there". compared with eq, gear upgrades rain from the sky, and are likewise made obsolete quickly while leveling (almost immediately below level 20). the dungeons are not places to explore; they are puzzles with correct answers. there is no talking in dungeon groups except to explain a puzzle solution ("next boss has shield, go to room edges when shield up"), blame someone for solving the puzzle wrong, or loot distribution. because of the "theres just one right way and all deviations are just less optimal" design, other people are very likely to be telling you exactly what you should be doing in any fight AND what gear to wear.. theres no flexibility about whats considered acceptable. some people are simply fine with you being substandard, and (mostly) others arent.

EQ was designed to explore, in some cases, was literally designed to be unbeatable, and even today theres a lot of roads to take.

WoW was designed to be beaten, and theres just the one, beaten, path.

What a post

[Iron Chob]

the single biggest difference for me was the linear game design.

in original EQ you are dumped in a city to start. you have a note with a name. theres no maps. if youre a dark elf or wood elf you are already in a place people famously need assistance to navigate. the wood elf can just die immediately by walking ten steps the wrong direction. you can attack any npc, including your own guildmaster by accident while just trying to type. if you even find your guild, they may have some text giving you a very very basic task or two, five newbie critter parts or whatever. where are the critters? where are you even? you dont know. you wander around lost and possibly dying a few times. you slowly learn your surroundings. you finally find enough of newbie critter to return the parts to your guild, they give you a piece of literal garbage, like a 1 ac cloak or something. after at minimum an hour of this you are level 2. you have no other leads from your guild after you get your 1 ac cloak. after several more hours you are level 4 or 5 and you have no choice but to go further out into the darkness.... inevitably dying or fleeing in a panic repeatedly as you learn how to travel anywhere and try to find places to safely kill things and/or profit.

WoW dumps you two steps from a Giant Exclamation Point man, who begins a chain (later a network) of essentially unbroken quest guidance for the entire game. you cant accidentally walk off an edge nearby and die. theres a map with clear markers. the newbie critters are standing on your foot when you spawn, theres a lot of them, and they have almost no chance to kill you. you have an automatic quest log that mostly, combined with your automatic map, functions as just an arrow saying "go this way, stop here, collect 10 item you find there". compared with eq, gear upgrades rain from the sky, and are likewise made obsolete quickly while leveling (almost immediately below level 20). the dungeons are not places to explore; they are puzzles with correct answers. there is no talking in dungeon groups except to explain a puzzle solution ("next boss has shield, go to room edges when shield up"), blame someone for solving the puzzle wrong, or loot distribution. because of the "theres just one right way and all deviations are just less optimal" design, other people are very likely to be telling you exactly what you should be doing in any fight AND what gear to wear.. theres no flexibility about whats considered acceptable. some people are simply fine with you being substandard, and (mostly) others arent.

EQ was designed to explore, in some cases, was literally designed to be unbeatable, and even today theres a lot of roads to take.

WoW was designed to be beaten, and theres just the one, beaten, path.

Yep, for sure.

EQ was and remains an MMORPG, aspects of which you have described in your post.

WoW dropped the RPG and is just an MMO - something which pretty much every other developer has adopted, to the detriment of the market imo.

[Trexller]

JoshStrifeHayes said it best in a recent video

The novelty of playing online with friends, is no longer enough to drive an MMO game.

ppl don't give a shit about interacting with others online anymore, because online interaction is like 80% of everyone's life

social media destroyed social media

[Swish]

The best times on WoW were definitely with people met in the game who you got friendly with.

In the absence of that the game got progressively less fun.

Emulated EQ is the same.

[Toxigen]

Everyone shitting on WoW here has never raided at a high level. I'm talking bleeding edge progression raiding.

That's where the real fun is. Getting to max level is just an introduction to your class.

[magnetaress]

Everyone shitting on WoW here has never raided at a high level. I'm talking bleeding edge progression raiding.

That's where the real fun is. Getting to max level is just an introduction to your class.

Even most wow players havent done that. That is the main problem with wow.

Dunno how to organize ppl to get gud butt it takes a lot of effort and wows EZ mode seems to make ppl just not do it.

[Ciderpress]

I do not doubt that high end raiding in wow is harder than EQ in measurable ways, in terms of mechanics and opportunities for things to go wrong, but for whatever reason many people broadly perceive the game as being too hand-holdy and predictable.

EQ was criticized on release for being too much of a theme park compared to ultima online, but classic EQ1 is a massive sandbox by modern standards.

I liked EQ2 well enough for a while cause I like everquest, but I had zero trouble totally bailing on my lvl 50 when the first expansion came out and going back to eq1. Make of that what you will!

[Tnair]

everquest is the only mmo to appear in my dreams

[Toxigen]

I do not doubt that high end raiding in wow is harder than EQ in measurable ways, in terms of mechanics and opportunities for things to go wrong, but for whatever reason many people broadly perceive the game as being too hand-holdy and predictable.

EQ was criticized on release for being too much of a theme park compared to ultima online, but classic EQ1 is a massive sandbox by modern standards.

I liked EQ2 well enough for a while cause I like everquest, but I had zero trouble totally bailing on my lvl 50 when the first expansion came out and going back to eq1. Make of that what you will!

They're just two entirely different beasts.

I liked them both for what they were...but for Chob to say top end raiders would never make it in EQ yet EQ players could raid top end WoW is just completely backwards. Raided for 5+ years on P99 and killed every boss in WoW in top end progression guilds from Day 1 Vanilla through end of WotLK...the only "difficult" thing about P99 is the insane amount of man hours to compete.

Its hard to imagine how some P99ers even tie their shoes in the morning.

[magnetaress]

They don't.

I got sandals/slippers. Socks sometimes. Sometimes both at once. I'm not allowed to have strings.

[spoil]

They're just two entirely different beasts.

I liked them both for what they were...but for Chob to say top end raiders would never make it in EQ yet EQ players could raid top end WoW is just completely backwards. Raided for 5+ years on P99 and killed every boss in WoW in top end progression guilds from Day 1 Vanilla through end of WotLK...the only "difficult" thing about P99 is the insane amount of man hours to compete.

Its hard to imagine how some P99ers even tie their shoes in the morning.

The legit insane people are the guild/raid leaders. The highest level raiding I did was in Elder Scrolls Online, for one specific score-push group I was in. The amount of shit I had to prepare was crazy and I had comparatively little responsibility as a full-parse DPS, mainly do damage and don't die. The tanks/healers and support DPS had a ton of stuff to coordinate and our raid leader pouring over the logs and trying to optimize the shit out of every last trash pull to shave a few seconds off our time was nuts. Like I was a top-end, top 1% DPS but I had a tiny fraction of the amount of knowledge he had about the game.

[caveslug]

Also never played WoW but as I recall it the timing of events was really the main draw. While EQ wasn't the first it was by far the largest MMO of its time with a relatively massive player base dedicating countless hours of their life over several years.

Then in quick succession you had both EQ2 and WoW dropping in November of 2004. At that point given the massive multiplayer component and its importance in this style of gameplay players were left with a choice...

1) Stick to existing EQ but take a huge step back due to server attrition and lose a bunch of people you enjoy playing with. There was largely an expectation that all dev work would migrate to EQ2 and that EQ would be left to die.
2) Start fresh on EQ2 which didn't really seem to have anything new or exciting to draw players into it was basically viewed as a new expansion except you lose your characters and gear.
3) Try WoW which was a completely different scratch built MMO, it was built off the beloved warcraft franchise which most people that were into EQ enjoyed, and its more cartoonish look had even more mass appeal to less hardcore gamers or casuals.

Sitting on the sidelines looking at your options WoW was a clear winner as it just had more mass appeal for a larger player base and from there the rest followed. I choose the uncommon option 4 of walking away from MMOs altogether for 20 years

I remember waiting for EQ2 over WoW, as I felt WoW looked so childish.
End the end I quit EQ2 after a month, and later ended up playing WoW for 6ish years. Had a blast in that time, from casual non raiding. Enjoyed PvP, wasn't a fan of the arena when it came later. Into casual raiding, and later hardmode raiding. And even enjoyed achievement hunting.

I didn't quit out of hate or anger of how the game changed over time, I just got bored with it. The only negative I really ever had was how the arena pvp, destroyed battlegrounds. As all the best / overpowered PvP gear came out of arena play, and you would get smashed in battlegrounds without it. And those with it, were pretty much unkillable.

[enjchanter]

I love internet posts that self-aggrandize beneath a veil of conversation.

Top end WoW raiders (modern day) wouldn't make it to raid level in EQ is the point you missed in your haste to dickwave. And pretty much all of WoW's Vanilla raiders learnt their trade in EQ....and many of them no longer play.

But feel free to elucidate on your interwebz exploits, I'm sure somebody is impressed.

bro are you kidding me

you can count the number of mechanics in an eq raid on 1 finger

even the FIRST wow raid had more than 1 mechanic, let alone anything after that

EQ is literally braindead simulator in terms of difficulty

99% of what you do in this game is auto attack or press 1 button on a 10 second cooldown.

in classic wow you still had a 1button rotation but atleast you couldnt actually literally stand there auto attacking like in eq

[Toxigen]

The legit insane people are the guild/raid leaders. The highest level raiding I did was in Elder Scrolls Online, for one specific score-push group I was in. The amount of shit I had to prepare was crazy and I had comparatively little responsibility as a full-parse DPS, mainly do damage and don't die. The tanks/healers and support DPS had a ton of stuff to coordinate and our raid leader pouring over the logs and trying to optimize the shit out of every last trash pull to shave a few seconds off our time was nuts. Like I was a top-end, top 1% DPS but I had a tiny fraction of the amount of knowledge he had about the game.

Yeah I still have nightmares about the amount of consumables we had to farm for Loatheb / Sapph / KT progress in vanilla. It felt like a 2nd job.

[Swish]

bro are you kidding me

you can count the number of mechanics in an eq raid on 1 finger

even the FIRST wow raid had more than 1 mechanic, let alone anything after that

EQ is literally braindead simulator in terms of difficulty

99% of what you do in this game is auto attack or press 1 button on a 10 second cooldown.

in classic wow you still had a 1button rotation but atleast you couldnt actually literally stand there auto attacking like in eq

But which is better?

Eberron 60 Erudite Enchanter
Enjamin 60 Erudite Cleric
Yxarus 60 Iksar Warrior Retired
Fauvana 60 Erudite Necromancer
Erjav 60 Human Bard
Enjamini 60 Human Magician
Deepwalter 60 Erudite Paladin
Seliel 60 Human Rogue
Enjoii 54 Dark Elf Warrior

[magnetaress]

But which is better?

Dude is fully immersed and probably never touched a mythic wow raid in its prime.

[Toxigen]

Dude is fully immersed and probably never touched a mythic wow raid in its prime.

if anything enji is the opposite of immersed

+enji scepter

[enjchanter]

But which is better?


To be fair, the first 5 60s in that list were 60 before I tried wow. After trying wow every other character I have is only above level 5 because I either bought a powerlevel or was able to afk level at drusellas camp. After playing wow, I realized how actually brain dead easy eq is and demoted it to an afk cookie clicker game that I play while I do other stuff.
I mean you can literally farm bis loot, mountains of plat and all by putting in like 5% effort on this game

And yes I have never done a mythic raid. But I've gotten as high as gladiator in shadowlands and have been getting elite / duelist since in arena and this season I'm nearly 3k Rio in M+

Raiding is just the most unfun game mode sry

[enjchanter]

if anything enji is the opposite of immersed

+enji scepter

My favorite thing about grinding dkp at scepter was I was actually earning MORE dkp then the ppl at the raids cuz I got all the credit for the kill + 1 extra dkp for killing gragnar once per hour :)

No parking, no mobilizing, no joining comms, don't even have to interact with your game client more than once an hour and I'm out earning them all

[Toxigen]

My favorite thing about grinding dkp at scepter was I was actually earning MORE dkp then the ppl at the raids cuz I got all the credit for the kill + 1 extra dkp for killing gragnar once per hour :)

No parking, no mobilizing, no joining comms, don't even have to interact with your game client more than once an hour and I'm out earning them all

this is the way

i just liked being visible because my sheer presence mad ppl very upset