AC over HP?

[Hasaan]

Just curious, for tanking, is having higher AC oriented gear more important than HP gear?

For example, is it better to have 2 platinum fire wedding rings (5 AC, +55HP) over just one plat fire ring and gem encrusted ring? (10 AC, STR +7) ??

stuff like that.

[Cribanox]

HP is king during most tanking scenarios.

[Ektar]

if you're just group exping.. don't have a crappy AC, but HP total is important for complete heals. So if your AC is shit, your high HP will not make up for how often and hard you get hit. Kind of a balance you gotta test out? or uh, maybe people have more insight. If you're a hybrid just go for the AC softcap (900 I believe) and work HP from there. lower levels obv you can't do that but. I rambled enough.

[Hasaan]

So for example, Djarns Amethyst ring, and plat fire wedding ring would be the best choice then (pretty much) ?
Doesn't having higher AC mean you would take less damage overall though?
Mobs have higher chance of missing if you have higher AC no?

[Ektar]

yeah AC will make the mob miss more and hit for less (not less maximum, but he will hit for less than maximum more often)

so that's why it's kinda hard to say definitively. the most popular setup is djarn and plat fire, yes

[Maurk]

I always find I have to be healed less when grouping, even raiding sometimes when I put on my full AC gear rather than going HP.
IMO having gear that gives you say, 250-300hp, but negates 70ac, isn't that great, when mobs are dishing out 300dmg in 2-3 rounds of combat.

[Webwolf]

HP is king imo but you have to be smart about your choice of gear as not to leave you with low AC while pursuing the big HP number. Pretty much what Ektar said above.

[greatdane]

AC is much better whenever you're not getting blasted by constant complete heals. It's a good idea to have a few hundred HP from gear, which you pretty much automatically will if you haven't geared your tank like a retard, but don't prioritize HP over AC until you start doing things that demand a CH chain. Definitely don't sacrifice AC for HP in any sensible amount while just leveling. If you're a caster, HP might be better since you won't be able to get enough AC for it to matter anyway, and it'll be helpful to be able to survive an extra hit or two. As a tank, 5/55 rings and a HBC is all the extra HP you need until raids.

Look at it like this: heals, especially from druids and shamans (who will be far more common than clerics as group healers while leveling), heal for a small portion of your total health. What does it matter whether you have 1500 or 1700 HP when you're getting healed for 300 at a time and mobs hit for 50-100ish? The AC will reduce the damage you take, resulting in less heals required which can be directly translated into mana regen for your healers. You'll simply level faster if you go for AC. Any tank class gets enough natural base HP that they won't need any extra to do their job, and it doesn't do you much good except make you feel tough.

There isn't a lot of HP gear that doesn't also give good AC, of course, but don't buy into the "HP is king" crap. It isn't particularly important until the very endgame, and even then, you'll want to avoid actually paying AC for more HP. The situations where extra HP would have done you more good than extra AC are virtually non-existent until you're doing content that hits hard enough where dying between heals is a risk and you get CHed enough for it to make a meaningful difference in the cleric's mana efficiency. CH isn't even mana-efficient until it heals you for 1200+, and it isn't worth the 10sec cast time until it heals you for 1500+. You don't have enough HP for 1500 to be less than half your total until you're like 55+ and fully raidbuffed, and you don't want the cleric to attempt to land CHs on you at 20% HP. The people who CH level 45 tanks in Dreadlands groups are doing it wrong.

Personally, I wear 2x 55/5 rings on my tanks (on all my characters, really). They give 8 actual AC while Djarn's gives 3 from the agility. 5 AC > 25hp when you're tanking sarnak berzerkers or whatever. I don't own a Djarn's ring, it's a hugely overrated item and isn't worth the price unless you're at the point where money is inconsequential. If I played a high-level enchanter or wizard or something, I might bother getting a Djarn's ring when I couldn't upgrade anything else with buyables. Any melee as well as shaman and probably cleric, I'd wear 55/5s.

[Zeelot]

A good way to think of it when choosing upgrades is 1 ac = approximately 7hp worth of usefulness. Therefore, a GER is a little bit worse than a 5ac/55hp ring for tanking.

This is a ballpark figure though.

Also, you should prioritize HP/resists in fights with high damage AEs or casters and AC on fights where it's primarily melee damage you are worrying about.

[Dantes]

The rule of thumb is, at lower levels, go HP. At higher levels, go stamina. 45 HP from an HBC doesn't mean shit at 50+, but it sure is helpful at level 25. You don't have to sacrifice AC for HP at high levels because a lot of the best tank equipment has stamina and good AC.

[azeth]

in summation, unless you're on the receiving end of a CH rotation, stack AC over HP.

[Messianic]

in summation, unless you're on the receiving end of a CH rotation, stack AC over HP.

Quit screwing around on the forums and just come back and play the game, Azeth :D

[karsten]

just a tip -- you should probably not ever listen to ektar, he doesn't even have full LR

[azeth]

Quit screwing around on the forums and just come back and play the game, Azeth :D

i love eq so much, and that is why i cannot play.

[Mustaza]

Someone settle this:

For a Wood Elf Warrior, Indicolite Helm (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1510) or Skull Shaped Barbute (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1494)?

[azeth]

Skull Shaped Barbute (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1494)?

sv magic is pretty out of control, go with that regardless of hp/ac :p

[Messianic]

Someone settle this:

For a Wood Elf Warrior, Indicolite Helm (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1510) or Skull Shaped Barbute (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1494)?

Depends on situation. Generally, I'd say Indicolite because the AC difference is very substantive.

When MR is needed, SSB.

At 60, 35 hp is relatively meaningless.

[nymphloa]

A good way to think of it when choosing upgrades is 1 ac = approximately 7hp worth of usefulness. Therefore, a GER is a little bit worse than a 5ac/55hp ring for tanking.

This is a ballpark figure though.

Also, you should prioritize HP/resists in fights with high damage AEs or casters and AC on fights where it's primarily melee damage you are worrying about.

This is an old old arguement going way back on the Steel warrior forums! I myself having played a Warrior end game raiding from Kunark until mid last year when I found this server! and quit live right away!
AC is all about damage mitigation and over the many years our tanking team parsed hundreds of raid encounters and grp fights using AC vs HPs tanks and found that the total damage dealt to the HP whores over the AC whores was vast!

I myself have always counted AC first and HPs second, beyond this a tanks only real concern is of course agro.

I noticed that the ratio quoted above is 7hp to 1ac, if you look at the old threads from the kunark era it is widely suggested that the ratio is more like 5hp to 1ac...but in truth no one knows 100% for sure. While others claim its a different ratio for each of the tank types, based on the defensive skill. Warrior being the best followed by the Hybrids....

So while I agree HPs are needed, without a good AC you will be more of a mana drain on your grp and/or raid, and for the few people that can account for this I know when I am playing my Shadow knight Ache I have noticed a vast improvement in how much punishment he can now take with his new AC based twink set over his old HP based twink set(pre kunark).

Hey thats just my 2cp...I have no doubt others have there own opinions.

Peace..

Ache 30 Shadowknight

[nymphloa]

Someone settle this:

For a Wood Elf Warrior, Indicolite Helm (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1510) or Skull Shaped Barbute (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1494)?

As I have stated, I work on the ratio 5/1, that said I am still an AC whore at heart and I myself opted for the raw AC 21 on my Blood ember helm, over the 13ac 35hp Svm +10 on the SSB.

But my answer to the above is use none of them! get a

http://common.allakhazam.com/images/d/c/dc98d8c5ddf246a7cf4bc64daff537bc.png

The raid one sucks balls! and that is putting it politely :)

[Dantes]

Someone settle this:

For a Wood Elf Warrior, Indicolite Helm (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1510) or Skull Shaped Barbute (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1494)?

You can get a couple more points of AC from a Sarnak Headguard. Or throw out the SSB for a Tranix Crown (+20) if Magic Resist is important. Nobody really wants an indicolite helmet, other than to complete a set.

[Messianic]

You can get a couple more points of AC from a Sarnak Headguard. Or throw out the SSB for a Tranix Crown (+20) if Magic Resist is important. Nobody really wants an indicolite helmet, other than to complete a set.

But warriors need INT to think of better taunts