Advice please - desktop purchase

[Polixenes]

I wonder if anyone with some computer-savvy bones can help me out.

It’s time to upgrade my 5 year old graphics card, along with the entire 7 year old desktop PC. My dinosaur uses a graphic card with 256MB and system RAM is 1GB.

The computer shops here are poor for customer service (not enough demand I suppose) – they won’t help me with research or build it for me even if I select the components for them to order in, so I’m stuck with buying something off the shelf.

I looked at Alienware and their ‘build a pc’ pages and I can get system RAM starting at 4GB and going up to 16GB. For graphics I can buy a 1GB Radeon card, or a 1.5GB Nvidia card, or either option with 2GB.

I just don’t know enough to make a smart choice. Does a 2GB video card blow you away compared to 1GB? And how much RAM is enough?

Bearing in mind I’m not much of a FPS gamer (my layman’s assumption is that the higher end hardware is aimed at those games), but let’s say I’m interested in playing MMORPGs and 2011-2013’s single player games with all the graphic option sliders turned up to max.

Let's assume money is no object (or rather, let's assume my wife never sees the credit card statement). Any wise words?

[Doors]

Be a loser get a tablet lolol

[Raavak]

What are you going to use it for? Like what is the most demanding stuff on it.

[Maurk]

Well, just from what I understand about alienware, is you are paying extra for it being "Alienware" brand, meaning often times you can get the same specs, but a less expensive computer that is just as good, for a lower price.
Though Alieware does tend to look really cool.

[Zereh]

Here's what I would do (have done): Find a decent pre-built machine (BestBuy, Frye's or wherever). Swap out the power supply with the best you can find and insert an improved video card. Quick, simple and relatively easy!

[Polixenes]

What are you going to use it for? Like what is the most demanding stuff on it.

Nothing super-strenuous.

Right now the most demanding stuff on it is Dragon Age Origins (from 2009) or when I 3-box on another EQemu with the graphics turned down.

Someone bought me FF XIV and I can't even run it on my current rig.

I'll probably buy Starcraft II at some point. Diablo III. I'll watch movies.

[Polixenes]

Here's what I would do (have done): Find a decent pre-built machine (BestBuy, Frye's or wherever). Swap out the power supply with the best you can find and insert an improved video card. Quick, simple and relatively easy!

Thanks Zereh, if BestBuy or a place like that will ship that sounds like a good plan. The nearest BestBuy or Circuit City is 600 miles away.

My problem is just to figure out which improved video card to get. I don't want to get one and then in 6 months time a game comes out which makes it stutter.

[Raavak]

I generally mailorder most my components from Newegg.

[Zereh]

Try NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com/). I've had great luck with them.

[Taryth]

Wait, if you know how to swap a psu (and therefore all the cables), then what's the point of buying a prebuilt in the first place? That's going to cost you extra money, not just from the fact that you're buying a prebuilt, but buying a prebuilt only to swap out two of the components.


If you can't figure out how to select components for your PC, I suggest beginning with a DIY combo deal (http://www.newegg.com/Store/MasterComboStore.aspx?StoreID=7&name=DIY-PC-Combos). If you want to go semi-custom, choose a combo that doesn't have the full complement of PC components. Also, if you want to get a rough idea of what your PC might cost/some ideas for your build, Tom's has several configurations (http://www.tomshardware.com/system-configuration-recommendation-51.html) readily available for review.

Once you build your own computer, you'll never turn back to prebuilts. It's NOT difficult, and if you can't intuitively figure out the assembly, your mobo will have a manual (as will the chassis.)

[Polixenes]

Thanks guys, I looked at NewEgg and the Tom's hardware site.

On NewEgg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.691323&cm_sp=DIY_PC_Combos-_-691323-_-Combo

- looks like something I should consider though again, my problem is not knowing PC components from a hole in the ground so I can't tell if this would be considered state of the art or last year's junk. They carry disclaimers that they can't guarantee all the parts that ship will be compatible which worries me a bit - I suppose by this they mean they can't promise the power supply or the cooling would be good enough.

Tom's has this suggestion (amongst others):
http://www.tomshardware.com/system-configuration-recommendation-59.html

- maybe I could look into having those components shipped over and ask our IT guy if he would slap them together for me if I give him a couple hundred bucks.

I wish it was easier to buy a PC than this. If you want a car you don't have to go round selecting the engine, the carburettor, the chassis, the radiator etc....thank god.

[Raavak]

Isn't Tom's Hardware where all the overclockers hang out? When I built my last system I believe I looked there but found they tend to rate things better based on how well they work overclocked/in an overclocked system.

[Aadill]

Isn't Tom's Hardware where all the overclockers hang out? When I built my last system I believe I looked there but found they tend to rate things better based on how well they work overclocked/in an overclocked system.

Yeah they're more of fans of taking lower end components that have solid parts and pushing them to the limit rather than relying on stock speeds. Sometimes they outperform stock parts with as much longevity and for a much cheaper price, but that's more of an advanced thing. They still have good recommendations and I'd follow them more than NewEgg because 80% of the reviews on there are from complete and utter morons that think the component sucks because they chose UPS Ground and the part got broken in shipping.

EDIT: I will say that with what you're looking to use the computer for I wouldn't go spending $1.5k, although that is a damn fine computer. You should be able to build a decent enough rig for 800 - 1k if you do it yourself, and cheaper if you find good parts/deals

[falkun]

Heyo, I can definitely help out here. A few things I'd like to know:

1) Can you follow directions? Most computer components these days have fairly standard connections and building one isn't as difficult as it once was. If the manual won't tell you how to put it together, then come and ask and I (and probably many others) can help out.

2) What budget range are you looking at?

3) What are your planned uses for it? (I see DA:O and 3-boxing a 10-year old game). Anything else? How future proof do you want it?

4) Are there any special considerations to make for your computer? (Does it need wifi? Do you need Bluetooth? Do you need an additional sound card?)

With those suggestions in mind, I recommend you review Bit-Tech's Monthly Buyer's Guide (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/buyers-guide/2011/07/11/pc-hardware-buyer-s-guide-july-2011/1). It has 3-4 different price points and staple builds. I have a few parts that I'd pick up differently, but they are always a great base.

Also, note that you may have to spend extra for a keyboard, mouse, monitor, and Operating System as those are not included in the builds.

You can honestly save 20-30% by building the computer yourself over purchasing a pre-built system from Alienware/Dell/HP/etc.

[falkun]

Isn't Tom's Hardware where all the overclockers hang out? When I built my last system I believe I looked there but found they tend to rate things better based on how well they work overclocked/in an overclocked system.

Even at stock speeds, the parts they CONTINUOUSLY recommend will perform reliably for years to come, and most of the parts are included as "staple" builds for BYO (build your own) rigs. At the ~$1k US price point, you'll almost always see a Intel i5 2500k, a GTX560Ti (or radeon 6850/70), 4GB DDR3/1600, and a Spinpoint F3 1TB.

And now-a-days, everything except the CPU chipset is standard for the piece, so computers are a lot easier/more newbie friendly to build than they've ever been. If I can get a price point, I can piece together a full rig that'll stomp on any pre-configured competition from the major manufacturers, it won't have all the bloatware on the OS, and it'll cost less.

[falkun]

It’s time to upgrade my 5 year old graphics card, along with the entire 7 year old desktop PC. My dinosaur uses a graphic card with 256MB and system RAM is 1GB.

Still better than my computer (minus the RAM, which is easy to upgrade alone if you want, but your rig (like mine) is getting old.

The computer shops here are poor for customer service (not enough demand I suppose) – they won’t help me with research or build it for me even if I select the components for them to order in, so I’m stuck with buying something off the shelf.

It's not too complicated these days, I'd suggest building your own rig.

I just don’t know enough to make a smart choice. Does a 2GB video card blow you away compared to 1GB? And how much RAM is enough?

RAM, unless you are doing heavy image work, is good in the 4GB or 8GB range. The new (best) processors from Intel are dual-threaded, so you are looking at either 2 slots of 2GB each (4GB RAM), or 1 of two variations of 8GB of RAM (4 slots of 2GB each or 2 slots of 4GB each (latter being the better option)). Honestly, RAM is pretty friggin' cheap right now.

Bearing in mind I’m not much of a FPS gamer (my layman’s assumption is that the higher end hardware is aimed at those games), but let’s say I’m interested in playing MMORPGs and 2011-2013’s single player games with all the graphic option sliders turned up to max.

The video card RAM is largely irrelevant to their performance. For deciding on a video card, I'd suggest using Tom's Hardware's monthly Graphics Card review (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2964.html) as a baseline, and selecting the best price-point for you.

Let's assume money is no object (or rather, let's assume my wife never sees the credit card statement). Any wise words?

Remember that computer hardware is a land of diminishing returns, and that a lot of games have been "consolified", and that graphics haven't had a HUGE improvement due to having the restriction that they must be playable on the 5-6 year old hardware within the PS3 and XBOX360. DX9 is still the defacto standard that most games are built around, with developers adding minor DX11 flare to appease the PC gaming junkies. DX11 offers so much more than is currently being utilized by developers because gaming is held back by the processing power of consoles.

But back on the topic of money, and explaining my diminishing returns. The Tom's Hardware monthly wrap-up (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/system-builder-value,2972-13.html) explains the price/performance ratio of their three system-builder rigs. You'll notice the mid-range rig offers nearly identical value to the cheapest rig, while the much more expensive rig (its 4x the cost of the cheapest rig) has a noticeable drop in value. These days, it's best to build a $1000 rig now and then build another $1000 rig in 2 years than it is to pay out $2000 now and not upgrade for 4 years.

[Polixenes]

Thanks all, and especially Falkun, thanks for your very informative posts this morning. I'll spend some time following the links you provided.

I'm not really keen to try to build a PC myself - my only experience with the inner workings is to replace a dud RAM chip, and even then I was crapping myself due to dire warnings of the slightest static electricity frying it.

The nearest I ever got to a lesson in computers at school was making a stickman in BASIC language to walk across the screen and go up in an elevator.

But I can get expert help here from the IT guys and as I said earlier, bung them some cash to get the job done.

[Raavak]

RAM, unless you are doing heavy image work, is good in the 4GB or 8GB range.

Thats for Windows 7 / 64 bit operating system right? My understanding is 32 bit OS is limited by memory addresses to around 3.2GB (rough and dirty math). Or does dual threading processors change that?

[falkun]

Raavak you are right, 32-bit OSes are limited to roughly 4GB of TOTAL RAM, which back when this was a larger issue, most video cards were in the 512-768MB range, therefore only 3.25/3.5GB was left for the RAM. Now that the "standard" for an OS is 64-bit (if you are building a new comp and go 32-bit, you're either stupid or buying REALLY low-end parts), the issue of memory won't come up again for a few years/decades until the new cap (which I don't know) is reached.

To answer your question, the processor has nothing to do with it, it was all about the Operating System used.

[falkun]

I'm not really keen to try to build a PC myself - my only experience with the inner workings is to replace a dud RAM chip, and even then I was crapping myself due to dire warnings of the slightest static electricity frying it.

The nearest I ever got to a lesson in computers at school was making a stickman in BASIC language to walk across the screen and go up in an elevator.

But I can get expert help here from the IT guys and as I said earlier, bung them some cash to get the job done.

Honestly, if you've replaced RAM, you can put together a PC. CPUs no longer have pins, they have pads on the CPU and the pins are on the MotherBoard. Its much harder to break the pins now-a-days if you follow the MOBO installation directions. The rest of the connections are either plugging in a cable (possibly slightly more fickle than plugging in a power chord) or plugging another component into the mobo (the same as pushing RAM into a socket). If you are worried about electro-static discharge on your brand new rig, build it on a linoleum/hardwood/tile floor, and between every component touch something near you that you know grounds you (you've touched it before and gotten the static shock). If you do that between every component/every 30min, I highly doubt you'll build up enough static electricity to break your new build.

[Pudge]

http://www.hardware-revolution.com/mainstream-gaming-pc-july-2011/