Paladin Charisma or Stamina

[Leorus]

Starting a new Paladin and debating between putting my attribute points into stamina for survivability or charisma to assist with lulls. For races I’m leaning towards half-elf or high-elf. I’m also fine with a more difficult leveling experience if it’ll make me more effective at end game in groups and possibly raids.

[Snaggles]

TBH, I never had issue lulling since Unrest soloing. Calming out the basement is pretty precarious with Crusty armor. With a Kobold Jester Crown and Crude Stein any elf should be great (not in Crusty).

I would go Stamina if have moderate goals unless you have a crazy EC budget and have plans for the best raid stuff, then Wisdom.

My ERU went full STR way back and still won’t cap with Focus. Yaulp4 helps a lot though.

[sajbert]

It's not easy to max all relevant attributes as Pal without godly gear. That said, you absolutely can max both WIS and STA unbuffed even though you put all points into CHA at character creation. CHA is difficult/impossible to max unbuffed without gimping yourself.

If you have a significant level advantage over the mobs you'll get less resist and thus, CHA will matter less. Otherwise it's a useful stat that will give your Paladin a useful tool and added dimension to the class.

For survivabilty I'd argue that WIS is the most important stat, particularly for solo. STA mostly matters for tanking and will rarely matter in a group setting and if 20 STA makes the difference in a raid they'll probably have replaced you with a Warrior anyway.

Half-elf is a pretty garbage choice for Paladin I feel. High Elf offers the best CHA and WIS and is the best choice in the long run I feel. Human has better rounded stats but eventually none of that matters with raid gear, raid buffs and primal weapon if you ever get that far. Dwarf has the best melee stats and good WIS but eventually none of that matters and the +5MR bonus comes at the price of not being able to wear a robe. Erudite also has the +5 MR bonus and can wear a robe but has lower WIS and CHA than High Elf.

I'd probably go Erudite for fashion. +5 MR is arguably worth the -10 charisma and any other stats don't really matter once you twink past all difficulty and then get raid geared.

[Zuranthium]

I would for sure put 20 Strength if doing a High Elf. Going to want it for carrying capacity, and it's more damage.

[pokishi]

Putting your points into Cha only helps if you plan on being your groups primary puller or if your soloing. Since you're going with an elf, I wouldn't even bother with it, as their Cha is already sufficient.
If you can mildly twink your Pally out, then I would probably throw your points into Wis. A higher mana pool is always a plus. Your gear is going to address your hp, ac, str and sta so you aren't always going to add to your wis/mana numbers until you get some higher end stuff, whether thru raiding or paying lots of plat.

[sajbert]

Don’t need to be a primary puller for it to be worthwhile in a group. Lull can allow for breaking a camp or getting to location all that much quicker. Sure, a cleric may be able to lull too but ir cleric dies there’ll be no one to res them barring a high level paladin or another cleric.

[Solist]

Charisma for sure.

It's the only stat that will effect your gameplay any meaningful amount that you don't get handidly in gear.

[Toxigen]

I went full CHA, was super happy I did.

Was a twink solo'd all the way. Warrens --> Permafrost --> CT/Paw --> Specs --> tiny bit at CoM --> Hole ent --> boom level 55

Bring lots of 10 dose Kilva's.

[Snaggles]

I have a 220CHA set in my bags. The only time I ever wear it is to help a group crawl through Seb or The Hole. Once in camp, I don’t even swap out the Narandi for a Kobold Jester Crown or use my crude stein. The last time I was in ABC I just got a shaman CHA buff and pulled for about 3hrs. I recall three crit fails involving a full room pop.

There are a lot of suboptimal places to put starting points. Even a frail pally can justify strength over CHA though. Pick the race you want and tbh you can’t mess up that bad. Even the SK’s can’t agree on this stuff and the biggest starting stat difference is like 70 points…

[Balimon]

Str, sta, wis, cha are all good choices. Cha is the hardest to max in Velious, that is something to consider. My question for the OP is are you planning on raiding or doing group/low man content?

If you're going to be raiding, and doing a lot of tanking then I would suggest sta all the way, thats the big epeen stat that everyone is looking at. It's harder to cap than most people realize even in Velious.

If you're going to be doing group size content/solo/low man stuff go cha, you will need it way more then 100 hit points. I have a cha swap set that gets me to 225 and I use it all the time, having that extra 20 from creation would've been really helpful for the solo stuff I do at 60.

edit: Don't go half elf unless you want for fashion they have pretty bad stats overall, human, high elf and erudite and stronger choices.

[Barlu]

Agree that charisma is the best option based on what you are looking to do. If deciding between high elf and half elf would definitely recommend high elf. The high wisdom and charisma help a lot. It is very hard to max strength and stamina on a high elf with 70 base, but almost irrelevant unless raiding. I don’t think I ever died going toe to toe with a mob, but you’ll have some problems on a crit lull fail in a dungeon.

As Toxigen said, lots of DS pots and make sure you get a deepwater bp. Things will die slower with such low strength on a high elf and you’ll take more damage, but recovery time between mobs is stupid fast with a deep water bp. Solo’d my high elf pally to 60 mostly in dungeons and it was a lot of fun. Also a much faster solo experience than most people give it credit for. Once you get Enstill at 54, your margin for error goes way up since you can root and camp unless you get really unlucky with resists.

[Zuranthium]

edit: Don't go half elf unless you want for fashion they have pretty bad stats overall, human, high elf and erudite and stronger choices.

I don't think Half Elf is that bad, you're -15 Wisdom compared to a Human but I could see preferring Infravision to that if you're truly starting with nothing. Being blind in the dark can suck if you're not surrounded by a bunch of other people in the same boat.

Dwarf is easily the best stats if you don't care about Charisma, like for example planning to play with an Enchanter friend who will already pump that stat and do the Lulling, while you focus on maxing your other abilities. Really in general if you put +20 Charisma into a Dwarf when starting, your overall stats are better than any other race.

I don't like Erudite from a non-aesthetics standpoint. -30 physical stats compared to a Human with the only upside being +5 magic resist.

It is very hard to max strength and stamina on a high elf with 70 base, but almost irrelevant unless raiding. I don’t think I ever died going toe to toe with a mob, but you’ll have some problems on a crit lull fail in a dungeon

Strength is the most important if not raiding IMO, you do more damage, which is always good, and being able to carry more means you make more money.

Crit fail can always happen on lull.

[Barlu]

I don't think Half Elf is that bad, you're -15 Wisdom compared to a Human but I could see preferring Infravision to that if you're truly starting with nothing. Being blind in the dark can suck if you're not surrounded by a bunch of other people in the same boat.

Dwarf is easily the best stats if you don't care about Charisma, like for example planning to play with an Enchanter friend who will already pump that stat and do the Lulling, while you focus on maxing your other abilities. Really in general if you put +20 Charisma into a Dwarf when starting, your overall stats are better than any other race.

I don't like Erudite from a non-aesthetics standpoint. -30 physical stats compared to a Human with the only upside being +5 magic resist.



Strength is the most important if not raiding IMO, you do more damage, which is always good, and being able to carry more means you make more money.

Crit fail can always happen on lull.

Irrelevant may have been too strong a word. Strength always helps, and crit lulls can always fail, but having a mob die faster on a pally cause you have more strength just felt different to me than other classes. You heal so fast once the fight is over, it was always more about getting singles in camp. A crit lull and a death, or a camp out and reset seemed to set me back more than an extra strength having a mob die faster. Plus DS pots will make up a pretty decent amount of your damage at higher level.

[Toxigen]

Its really only important when you're solo or in a sub-optimal duo with limited CC.

In a group who cares, yolo pull that shit and tell 'em to git gud.

Also human has a nice mix of stats. Thats what I went anyway.

[Vexenu]

Very good argument for CHA if twinked and mostly soloing, not worth it otherwise. WIS if you want endgame min/max, STA if you just want to tank and do group content

[Snaggles]

This is my pally. Your typical Basic B raid gear, none of which too difficult for most. I put 20 points in STR, 5 AGI. I did this thinking I would never raid due to the toxicity of EQ…but we all get bored eventually and luckily P99 is devoid of that.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Vojun_Zissou

I barely cap STR with Yaulp4 and Focus. I swap out the gloves for the Ragefire ones and my shoulders when I’m not tanking with Imbued Granite Spaulders so I can max attack. Vindi loot, HGL’s, Gozz cloak…all great but no STR. I recall raid buffed with POTG somewhere in the mid 5.7k range. The shield loses hps but 55 AC is often nice to have.

Again, no intent to brag…it’s remarkably average but I’ve fixated on the stam vs raw hps game to make sure raid buffs get me as high as possible. In hindsight if I could take those 20 points back it wouldn’t help me much. At this point in my gearing at least.

As for the damage pot talk, please keep in mind at max duration Kilva’s Skin of Fire at level 60 will cost about 184p/hr. At level 30 the upkeep is about 368/hr and 275p/hr at 45. This and of course having to source them unless you fill up a mule nearby. If you have the resources it’s certainly helpful but compared to burning jaspers with a DW BP is a real Gucci way to burn Norrathian currency…

[Toxigen]

As for the damage pot talk, please keep in mind at max duration Kilva’s Skin of Fire at level 60 will cost about 184p/hr. At level 30 the upkeep is about 368/hr and 275p/hr at 45. This and of course having to source them unless you fill up a mule nearby. If you have the resources it’s certainly helpful but compared to burning jaspers with a DW BP is a real Gucci way to burn Norrathian currency…

its 2024 if you aint burning jaspers and kilvas are you even playing a paladin?

[Balimon]

its 2024 if you aint burning jaspers and kilvas are you even playing a paladin?

True that

[Duik]

Int higher than wis...

Also @snaggles pegy belt is shd only. Just a magelo error or some sort of shenanegans allow u to equip as paly?

[Balimon]

I don't think Half Elf is that bad, you're -15 Wisdom compared to a Human but I could see preferring Infravision to that if you're truly starting with nothing. Being blind in the dark can suck if you're not surrounded by a bunch of other people in the same boat.

I don't think anyone can argue that half elf is has the lowest stat total amongst the races that can choose paladin. 15 wis is not nothing

Combined str/sta/wis/cha stats:

Dwarf: 338
Erudite: 313
Half Elf: 305
High Elf: 325
Human: 330


Dwarf is easily the best stats if you don't care about Charisma, like for example planning to play with an Enchanter friend who will already pump that stat and do the Lulling, while you focus on maxing your other abilities. Really in general if you put +20 Charisma into a Dwarf when starting, your overall stats are better than any other race.

Dwarf definitely has the largest stat pool, but not by a huge margin, and losing 5 to agi at creation makes them even or worse then high elf in my opinion.

I don't like Erudite from a non-aesthetics standpoint. -30 physical stats compared to a Human with the only upside being +5 magic resist.

Definitely second worst choice stat wise.

Strength is the most important if not raiding IMO, you do more damage, which is always good, and being able to carry more means you make more money.

Str is a great stat, I went 20 str at creation and I'm still 90% happy with that decision. It helped me level faster and I'm still not str capped self buffed with yaulp with decent starter raid gear. It's a good choice, if I would swap points around now at 60 I would go charisma because it'd be so much easier to cap it without huge gear swaps.

Crit fail can always happen on lull.

Of course, especially deep in seb or in chardok, but getting 220+ makes a huge difference and everyone who has that much knows this! If you want to solo or pull you absolutely need 200+ charisma and this can be difficult to achieve.

[Snaggles]

its 2024 if you aint burning jaspers and kilvas are you even playing a paladin?

NFI, I soloed to 60 without either and my 38/45 Narandi’s Lance :)


Int higher than wis...

Also @snaggles pegy belt is shd only. Just a magelo error or some sort of shenanegans allow u to equip as paly?

Thanks nice catch! Just copy/pasted the wrong one. I’ll fix it.

[Troxx]

My paladin doesn’t have exceptionally high charisma. I did carry a frog crown around for those special moments but in general I just made do without.

Didn’t seem to interfere with leveling to 60 either solo or in groups.