Can we talk about the future of P99?

[Tewaz]

First off, I love P99. I messed around a bit in Classic and eventually made my Bard Tewaz the night Kunark dropped. I was running around killing stuff in Black Burrow and there was a fun event where mobs would drop an item that you could turn in to an NPC and get some random piece of gear back. I got a Froglock Crown and I was absolutely floored. I got up to my 50's, joined Knights who say Ni and did a bit of poopsock raiding, but mainly spent my time aoe kiting all of OT and BW with some of the legends like Deejay and Hmotzart (sorry for the 25 mob limit). I've played off and on since then. I usually play about 6 months per year with some pretty intense play during the Red exp increase in 2015-2017 and on Blue over the past two years.

I have played to 60 on red and blue and into the 50s on Green. I've raided from scratch with people trying to steal kills in HoT to gear their first toon, I've killed every target in the game and made probably 100 alts at this point. I've done the poopsock meta, the trainout meta, the OBS meta, and even the get camped until your entire guild quits playing Red meta.

All this to say, I'm worried about our servers and there is a huge elephant in the room that no one at the top, CSR, or player level really wants to talk about.

We are losing players across all servers.

Whether it's Quarm, stale meta, 15 years of P99, old age, whatever, players are leaving the server.

On Blue we are seeing more and more common targets sit up uncontested like Vindi, Ayillish, and HoT Minis. The EC tunnel is full of WTB and almost every item for sale is a high end item. Targets people want being left up is cool I think, but it is also a sign of failing population.

So I wanted to start a thread talking about the future. Here are the limiting factors:

1. CSR has made it clear that future development on the server is delayd, so suggestions should keep that in mind. Examples: No Luclin or custom content, no major changes to things like spawn windows, respawn timers, mob pathing, or drop chance, etc.
.
2. Merging seems to be off the table. It was a part of the initial idea for Green, but appears to be dead for unclear reasons. That being said, Green (and Red too, why not?) being merged into Blue would do a lot for project health.

3. Certain players/guilds that constantly push the envelope of what is tolerated in the raid scene are not going anywhere. CSR hasn't dropped permanent bans since Sirkin's reign, so suggesting their removal is pointless.

So what are your recommendations to improve the project and keep it growing/thriving past year 15?

A few of mine:

1. Try new metas for the raid scene, but try ones that have a possibility of becoming THE meta. No SoW FTE lock and camp rules are the two put forth and they seem like they are meant to vex 95% of the raid scene population.

2. Shake up natural respawn windows. This is the 100% largest issue with the raid scene in my opinion. Classic or not, a 24 hour window on ST golems is absolutely insane. Even if the respawn is classic, race lines, FTE yellow texts, and train pulls are clearly not classic. It is also a pointless mechanic that wastes people's real life hours when most of us have already given years to this server. It's just silly to have it in a game in 2024. Addressing this would also lead to less gigantic guilds.

KWSM on Blue put forward an idea to reduce spawn windows by making any spawn in the first half of the window stay up and become an FTE race at the half way point of the window, and if mob spawns in the second half it is FTE like normal. This single idea would instantly increase participation for natural respawns, it requires no development and would be policed by the players easily. Socking half a window would appeal

3. Standardize player agreements for Scout, Ring 8, Ring 10, and Angry. Level range, time to roll, time to kill can all be easily standardized across both servers.

4. Address the bottleneck camps in the game like DS. As the server population drops and new players choose other servers, the demand for these types of items increases. I don't have any ideas for this outside of developer changes, but it is an issue that will slowly increase over time unless there is a population decline.

5. More Quakes. I know quakes are meant to mimic server crashes in the early 2000s, but this is the single best event on Blue and more of these in prime time help players that have played the game for 10 years and don't have items they're chasing.

6. Legacy items. This is more of a blue problem. As players retire (or get banned) a lot of this gear has disappeared. Beads are needed by a lot of guilds for pulling HoT and they are clearly an advantage item that is a MUST HAVE in the current DA train meta. Sure Eashen and other targets are doable without but taking 30 minutes to kill Eashen greatly hinders a guild and that can hemorrage members very quickly.

7. Communicate. That's it. Someone with any knowledge of the future. Please. Communicate.

The solution is pretty easy: Make this gear available during every CSR event. CSR has done this but it's so rare that it's absolutely insane. Most players on blue would probably delete two of their level 60 characters for a guise on one. We are at year 9 of Velious...Velious lasted 9 months on live. They added a casino on live in the next expansion with these items available. Also this would cut down on the RMT problem because no one needs to buy 1.3 million platinum to afford beads on Blue.

I remember loot raining on us during early P1999 GM events and also on live. Hell, I remember getting a Luclin item at a GM event BEFORE THE EXPANSION DROPPED. Adding any means of legacy items would be incredible and the only path to that now is CSR making it part of events. I'd throw a random guise on Velketor or some other super low priority target every quake just for the fun because why not?

I'd like to hear other player suggestions. I'd love to hear what CSR says about this. I would be absolutely floored to have even the smallest inkling of communication about the future of these servers from Nilbog or Rogean.

[enjchanter]

I suggest playing a better game

[Toxigen]

games dead lol

[Namsaknoi]

Pre-Fear classic.

But would be only half as popular as green when new, and would be less populated than blue when the server cools down.

Will be the same raiding players who raid green and/or blue doing Vox and Nagafen, and will probably have similar set of farmers farming the typical stuff.

[Snaggles]

At max population P99 was a boutique experience. Now it’s even more sparse.

Instead of missing all the extra people think of yourself as a very peculiar influencer who plays an elf sim. It’s basically a custom server at this point…invite some friends.

[Croco]

rog/bog don't care if people play the server or not, nothing is going to change

[Ripqozko]

you all could of prob started before the server was already dead, been dead for 8 years. its a retirement home.

[Phoenixx]

I just wanted to take a moment and thank you for writing your suggestions. I don't understand why people feel the need to respond negatively. The intention is to help provide ways to "rally the troops".

I love playing on p99. Its been fun. I don't fee the content rush to get to the end months before the next expansion. I will continue to play, regardless of server population. When I want to break and play other stuff, I will. But eventually I'll make it back.

[Varja]

A very well written, and well thought out post. Despite the negative responses in this thread these are all very common questions and common talking points in nearly every circle of friends that I have in this game. Everyone is wondering about these issues. And these posters above me can attempt to be jaded and negative, but if you're checking p99 forums, you have interest in the future of this game. I know every time I come here it is for this topic of discussion specifically. The metas suck, the proposed metas dont seem to be working as intended. The only exciting time in this game is quakes and the drafts, which are quake based.

It's just weird because whenever you look at the P99 UN discord, csr is putting a decent a chunk of time responding to people and putting forth somewhat of an effort to manage the game. But it's only for bitchy irrelevantcraid disputes and proposing questionable metas. If you're going to put in time to the game, why not make it good? Events, legacy loot, ban PL and "Vanq".

I personally believe that the fact that timers are so concealed and shrouded in mystery is one of the worst things about the raid scene. 95% of the effort of raiding is getting the timer and waiting the long ass windows. Make it to where if a mob is eligible to be drafted for a quake, the guild that killed it has to post the TOD to the UN discord just like we do at the end of draft. Then we will have competition and races, and people can stream the raid scene. Give people some incentive to not hit 60 and join Riot.

Spawn the warders again. Do a Kerafyrm event. Why the fuck not? Maybe if a guild has no concessions or raid infractions for a certain period of time they get a shot at one of the warders as a reward, or spawn them regularly and raid infractions cause guilds to concede them for x amount of cycles.

I'm just throwing out random shit. I enjoy this game and I do appreciate the staff. Just trying to be positive and throw out some ideas to add to a conversation that I do believe should be had.

[Ripqozko]

A very well written, and well thought out post. Despite the negative responses in this thread these are all very common questions and common talking points in nearly every circle of friends that I have in this game. Everyone is wondering about these issues. And these posters above me can attempt to be jaded and negative, but if you're checking p99 forums, you have interest in the future of this game. I know every time I come here it is for this topic of discussion specifically. The metas suck, the proposed metas dont seem to be working as intended. The only exciting time in this game is quakes and the drafts, which are quake based.

It's just weird because whenever you look at the P99 UN discord, csr is putting a decent a chunk of time responding to people and putting forth somewhat of an effort to manage the game. But it's only for bitchy irrelevantcraid disputes and proposing questionable metas. If you're going to put in time to the game, why not make it good? Events, legacy loot, ban PL and "Vanq".

I personally believe that the fact that timers are so concealed and shrouded in mystery is one of the worst things about the raid scene. 95% of the effort of raiding is getting the timer and waiting the long ass windows. Make it to where if a mob is eligible to be drafted for a quake, the guild that killed it has to post the TOD to the UN discord just like we do at the end of draft. Then we will have competition and races, and people can stream the raid scene. Give people some incentive to not hit 60 and join Riot.

Spawn the warders again. Do a Kerafyrm event. Why the fuck not? Maybe if a guild has no concessions or raid infractions for a certain period of time they get a shot at one of the warders as a reward, or spawn them regularly and raid infractions cause guilds to concede them for x amount of cycles.

I'm just throwing out random shit. I enjoy this game and I do appreciate the staff. Just trying to be positive and throw out some ideas to add to a conversation that I do believe should be had.

SYDG warder loot, consider playing when the server isnt dead.

[Tewaz]

A very well written, and well thought out post. Despite the negative responses in this thread these are all very common questions and common talking points in nearly every circle of friends that I have in this game. Everyone is wondering about these issues. And these posters above me can attempt to be jaded and negative, but if you're checking p99 forums, you have interest in the future of this game. I know every time I come here it is for this topic of discussion specifically. The metas suck, the proposed metas dont seem to be working as intended. The only exciting time in this game is quakes and the drafts, which are quake based.

It's just weird because whenever you look at the P99 UN discord, csr is putting a decent a chunk of time responding to people and putting forth somewhat of an effort to manage the game. But it's only for bitchy irrelevantcraid disputes and proposing questionable metas. If you're going to put in time to the game, why not make it good? Events, legacy loot, ban PL and "Vanq".

I personally believe that the fact that timers are so concealed and shrouded in mystery is one of the worst things about the raid scene. 95% of the effort of raiding is getting the timer and waiting the long ass windows. Make it to where if a mob is eligible to be drafted for a quake, the guild that killed it has to post the TOD to the UN discord just like we do at the end of draft. Then we will have competition and races, and people can stream the raid scene. Give people some incentive to not hit 60 and join Riot.

Spawn the warders again. Do a Kerafyrm event. Why the fuck not? Maybe if a guild has no concessions or raid infractions for a certain period of time they get a shot at one of the warders as a reward, or spawn them regularly and raid infractions cause guilds to concede them for x amount of cycles.

I'm just throwing out random shit. I enjoy this game and I do appreciate the staff. Just trying to be positive and throw out some ideas to add to a conversation that I do believe should be had.

A lot of good stuff here.

I am trying to mainly make suggestions about what can be changed without developer feedback. If we are looking at developer changes, holy crap do I have a monster list. Might have to make another thread for that in the future even though it seems to be pointless.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Tewaz]

SYDG warder loot, consider playing when the server isnt dead.

The only thing more cringe than trolling a forum thats been dead since 2018 is using SYDG about anything related to the blue server.

This thread is meant to get some sort of CSR feedback. Please take this trash elsewhere.

[enjchanter]

I mean it's a server locked to velious permanently , what are you expecting here
The game is there and it is what it is

You're here playing for free , they owe you nothing

[Snaggles]

We already have the draft, lots of quakes, and a rotating “meta” which apparently is to avoid the allegation of a stale server. I don’t like most of them but they are all different and tend to get player engagement.

People will find p99 or they won’t. Trying to get the word out wouldn’t be a bad idea but in general EQ is an esoteric dinosaur. P99 has its flaws but is still a quality emulator, whether you want to raid, group with some buddies, or solo and never talk to another person.

The issue with a time locked server are all the ones you mentioned. I think it’s a case of taking the good with the bad. Sure, quake more…why not? It’s not going to distribute Vulak loot or beads unless they randomly put that stuff on Vindi or Ayillish. Put some seaworthy planks out there while you are at it. Allow us to make tiny hybrids too.

[Ripqozko]

The only thing more cringe than trolling a forum thats been dead since 2018 is using SYDG about anything related to the blue server.

This thread is meant to get some sort of CSR feedback. Please take this trash elsewhere.

SYDG feedback on a dead server

[Varja]

I think that any news on the status of a merger would be fantastic for the community. Even if it's "No this isn't ever going to happen." Staff initially brought up this concept so I do believe that insight of the issue is somewhat warranted. But any light shed on their thought process would be great.

Is it still on the table for discussion at all? Has it been deemed too much of a logistical issue? Do they want x amount of time for geen to be on velious? Some supposed insiders say that when dark darkpaw took over the EQ ip that they felt that new p99 servers being opened up would hurt tlp subscriptions, so now with no new server opening up, staff is hesitant to do any sort of merger. Is that the case? Is it something to do with hardware? Unlikely. But the fact is that CSR has had this discussion internally and for whatever reason have decided to go silent on the issue but as anyone can see from the forums, the player base is still curious.

Again, I have nothing but appreciation for the p99 staff. No post made here is meant to slander or even disrespect them in any way whatsoever.

[Rygar]

I'm triggered when you say more guilds need Beads to pull mobs. That is more of an argument for making Eye of Zomm non-agro in my opinion (which is like 6 months after timeline).

That is a highly abused mechanic that was a perma-farmed legacy item simply due to the fact you had prior knowledge. Let some window remain as is to be classic but after 2 years just turn it off.

But to answer your question about population, if they patched P99 more it would breath new life into the server in my opinion. Hasn't been patched in 2 years and as a classic researcher it has definitely taken the wind out of my sails.

[Jimjam]

Anyone serious about balls spends their downtime farming crystalline orbs and batling eyes (which btw are far rarer here than they ought to be).

[Toxigen]

How the 2 servers aren't merged yet is beyond me.

[Jimjam]

How the 2 servers aren't merged yet is beyond me.

You can literally get a batphone, log into wrong server, do the kill and not even realise until later.

They’re the same server.

[Tewaz]

I think that any news on the status of a merger would be fantastic for the community. Even if it's "No this isn't ever going to happen." Staff initially brought up this concept so I do believe that insight of the issue is somewhat warranted. But any light shed on their thought process would be great.

Is it still on the table for discussion at all? Has it been deemed too much of a logistical issue? Do they want x amount of time for geen to be on velious? Some supposed insiders say that when dark darkpaw took over the EQ ip that they felt that new p99 servers being opened up would hurt tlp subscriptions, so now with no new server opening up, staff is hesitant to do any sort of merger. Is that the case? Is it something to do with hardware? Unlikely. But the fact is that CSR has had this discussion internally and for whatever reason have decided to go silent on the issue but as anyone can see from the forums, the player base is still curious.

Again, I have nothing but appreciation for the p99 staff. No post made here is meant to slander or even disrespect them in any way whatsoever.

This is the exact point of the quote: Please communicate the future. If the servers are locked forever in perpetuity, fine, but please let us know this.

[cd288]

I think a merge will happen eventually. It's similar to how Green was part of the original goal of the project but took a ton of time to actually end up coming out. Eventually Rogean/Nilbog will have some time and energy to dedicate to the project and will start up the merge + potentially new progression server again.

That's all that's really needed as far as "health" of P99 goes.

[RobotGraveyard]

None of that is needed.

Whats needed on blue is quakes based off of how many lizards you kill. Keep stupid cabilis clear and it quakes more often.

"100 SOJs have been Sold To Merchants."

[Croco]

Eventually Rogean/Nilbog will have some time and energy to dedicate to the project and will start up the merge + potentially new progression server again.

That is an incredibly bold assumption.

[Brool]

With no devs in sight, it seems like it's gonna be a grim future for blue/green. Sad to see EC so dead and most folks just logging in to raid and logging out.

I had some great times on blue raiding and creating the URN stuff. RIP

[cd288]

That is an incredibly bold assumption.

People said the same thing about Velious releasing on Blue. People said the same thing about Green ever happening at all.

[Zuranthium]

That's all that's really needed as far as "health" of P99 goes.

Green actually recycling like it's supposed to would help, but doesn't go nearly far enough to fix the problem of the game being based on bad coding that will continue to push players away as better servers open.

To recapture what classic EQ was supposed to be, there needs to be custom coding and non-static content. Otherwise the game will remain completely figured out and push people to play the game in a non-intended degenerate way, while being full of unacceptable bottlenecks.

I would keep Blue as the perma classic-coding locked-in-Velious server. Green should be a custom coding progression server. 1 year pre-Kunark, 1 year Kunark, 1 year Velious, at which point the server re-boots and the existing characters move to either Blue server or Red server, of the player's choice. Red server wouldn't be a full PvP server, instead just a Velious-locked version of Green server. I'm assuming p99 isn't allowed to open more servers b/c of their legal agreement, and since they are clearly not interested in designing/caretaking a full PvP server, Red should be put to better use.

[cd288]

Green actually recycling like it's supposed to would help, but doesn't go nearly far enough to fix the problem of the game being based on bad coding that will continue to push players away as better servers open.

To recapture what classic EQ was supposed to be, there needs to be custom coding and non-static content. Otherwise the game will remain completely figured out and push people to play the game in a non-intended degenerate way, while being full of unacceptable bottlenecks.

I would keep Blue as the perma classic-coding locked-in-Velious server. Green should be a custom coding progression server. 1 year pre-Kunark, 1 year Kunark, 1 year Velious, at which point the server re-boots and the existing characters move to either Blue server or Red server, of the player's choice. Red server wouldn't be a full PvP server, instead just a Velious-locked version of Green server. I'm assuming p99 isn't allowed to open more servers b/c of their legal agreement, and since they are clearly not interested in designing/caretaking a full PvP server, Red should be put to better use.

Generally agree, but all these other servers come and go and P99 is the one that mostly stands the test of time. But yeah the recycling timeline being followed I think would be a huge boost to population and engagement, because people would stay tuned into P99 overall since they know there is going to be a new server every X years rather than "new server at some point, potentially years past the end of the last one's classic era timeline."

And yeah I'm guessing something like full on custom coding could potentially be a violation of the legal agreement.

[enjchanter]

I'm suprised people actually want recycled servers
This means you won't have 10 yrs to stare at walls for dkp to get geared

[Namsaknoi]

No point having two servers that is 'too bad you missed your warder loot', should keep one as end of Velious, and the other as either pre-Velious, or pre-Kunark, or even pre-Fear

[cd288]

I'm suprised people actually want recycled servers
This means you won't have 10 yrs to stare at walls for dkp to get geared

Well you'd merge into Blue each time so if you wanted to you could keep playing there as many have

[Tewaz]

I wasn't around when they launched green, I'd love to start fresh and progress.

Main problem with current mode is the /list issue. No human should stay awake for 24 hours to get an item, that is just bonkers.

[Toxigen]

I wasn't around when they launched green, I'd love to start fresh and progress.

Main problem with current mode is the /list issue. No human should stay awake for 24 hours to get an item, that is just bonkers.

dont worry they just account share and tip toe around this

[bluejam]

I've killed every target in the game and made probably 100 alts at this point.
You need a new hobby.

[loramin]

dont worry they just account share and tip toe around this

Let's hope Green 2.0 has a more classic version of /list (ie. one that gives you a random chance when the mob next pops, instead of guaranteeing you a kill ... if you just you just don't sleep or share accounts for three days).

[arkile]

everything u suggested basically shits all over the game that we currently play and makes it more quarm like, just go to quarm

[Tewaz]

everything u suggested basically shits all over the game that we currently play and makes it more quarm like, just go to quarm

Reading comprehension (1)

[Toxigen]

everything u suggested basically shits all over the game that we currently play and makes it more quarm like, just go to quarm

nah all set with investing time in a server with a shady owner who cons his playerbase into donating to a gofundme under false pretenses

[Worry]

I’ve played here since 2013. Love this server and most of the community over the years. I think it’s time has passed. Quarm is really good and the prospect of Luclin is super enticing (I am not a fan of PoP though). Hope it can stay upright and stable for as long as P99 has but it seems a lot of people doubt the head of the project.

I agree about the merging. All three servers should be merged at this point. It would only benefit the remaining playerbases. But a lot of the remaining players are actually some of the most antisocial and toxic people the server has seen, so they prefer the population to be scarce. It is what it is. Quarm is awesome IMO, at least until PoP.

[Infectious]

They could add luclin. Skip that and go to pop. Make some custom zones off of Oasis. Paw 2.0. Veksar. Shit even just adding some long ass quest that gives you a chance at some illusions would shake the shit up.

[Jimjam]

some custom zones off of Oasis.

That dried river bed that trails from the lake and cuts through the hills on the western zone wall. I so much want want to hike up there, see what there is to find, but where the zoneline should be is just an invisible wall :’(

[busted]

6. Legacy items. This is more of a blue problem. As players retire (or get banned) a lot of this gear has disappeared.


10000% agree.

I'd suggest some "special event" quakes that sprinkle in some classic legacy items: Manastone, Beads, Scim of mistwalker, and Guise of deciever that GMs place on random raid targets. Would be cool if they were in the last Unity quake event that worked out pretty well

[Infectious]

That dried river bed that trails from the lake and cuts through the hills on the western zone wall. I so much want want to hike up there, see what there is to find, but where the zoneline should be is just an invisible wall :’(

Yup a zone right off there with a bunch of tunnel off it. Fill that it will muddites/goblins. Add some keys to keep people busy. Epic Armour quest line.

[Pint]

They should just allow boxing on blue if they aren't going to dump green in

[shovelquest]

https://i.imgur.com/Nze6XgW.png

[Muchew]

How many threads like these that fall on deaf ears to realize p99 is dead?

[Whyt]

I wish they would mix up the ZEMs a bit to bring dead zones more alive. Make it worthwhile ... I miss when The Hole was the place to be.

[shovelquest]

P99 no no drop/random loot server would be epic!

[shovelquest]

https://i.imgur.com/RETWXqK.png

[Olympia]

Wipe it clean. Like we’ve been asking for since 2010.

Agree.

[jolanar]

All they would really need to do is set up the perpetual new server cycle that merges into another server at the end of it's lifecycle before starting anew.

We'd be playing for another 50 years if they did this.

[Xer0]

With no devs in sight, it seems like it's gonna be a grim future for blue/green. Sad to see EC so dead and most folks just logging in to raid and logging out.

I had some great times on blue raiding and creating the URN stuff. RIP
I think the EC population thing has a lot ot do with the onset of tunnelquest.

I used to have to spend whole days watching it. Now I just set discord notifications for what I'm after and go back to leveling

[Harris]

A merge is overdue.

[shovelquest]

I remember rumors that daybreak and P99 had some sort of agreement.

Ive always thought that agreement was no future servers.

[cd288]

I remember rumors that daybreak and P99 had some sort of agreement.

Ive always thought that agreement was no future servers.

I don't think that's what the agreement says, which is clear from the fact that the agreement was in place well before Green existed.

I would imagine that the agreement states a couple things like 1. No server will expand past Velious into other expansion packs, 2. P99 owners will not use the servers to generate monetary profit for themselves (i.e., donations will always go toward server cost etc.), 3. No direct inducement of TLP players to play on P99 instead of TLP (i.e., not directly messaging them to disparage Daybreak/TLP and tell them to play P99 instead), and 4. Content moderation on the forums and in game. Stuff like that.

Given the staff's comments in the past on custom content I guess the agreement doesn't prohibit that, which is surprising to me.

[shovelquest]

My guess is they don't want to wipe anything, but it costs too much to launch a new server, and the contract with daybreak maybe explicitly says they can't ask for money or something. Therefor they can't do any pledge drives to start a new server.

I have no clue how much a server costs to run/maintain but chat GPT says 100-500 a month, thats like 1500 for blue, green & red??

Can't be that expensive but maybe it can I have no idea how money works.

[loramin]

If money was the issue, one would expect that the staff would ask for it. I think the Occam's Razor answer is that the staff simply doesn't want to make a new server right now.

It could be because they're just done with P99, or it could be that they have a timetable in their head, and are planning to release "Green 2.0" at some point in the future ... but they're just not telling us.

I'd like to think it's the latter, but as we all know they're not big on communication ... and without communication, we can only speculate baselessly.

[shovelquest]

My guess was that they contractually cannot ask for it or that would be piracy.

Im hoping its the surprise release but after as many years as it's been I'm skeptical.

[cd288]

My guess was that they contractually cannot ask for it or that would be piracy.

Im hoping its the surprise release but after as many years as it's been I'm skeptical.

It's not a money issue. Plus if you launched a new PVE server that would mean merging Green and Blue, so you'd still have the same total number of servers as you do today.

As Loramin noted, it's just a lack of energy/time/interest issue. Not sure if your forum join date is accurate to when you first started playing here, but if it is then you probably weren't around for the discussions about the first server post-Blue that bounced around for quite awhile (years before Green actually came out IIRC). A new server will happen eventually but it will likely be quite awhile before it does. We're about two years from the last patch on Green and about a year and a half from the absolute earliest point the staff said they would consider merging...so it really hasn't been THAT long since the latter if you think about it.

There are probably a bunch of classic changes that they want to implement for the new Green. Other things like the list system to sort out in terms of whether they want to do that or find ways to improve upon it. Just generally a bunch of things that require time and energy if they want to launch a new server, and they just don't have the personal capacity for it at this time. Eventually they will get interested in it again and we'll see a new server.

[shovelquest]

Theres no changes that need to be made, no reason to merge servers, there's no rules to follow to launch a fresh server, we're just supposed to believe that Rogan and nilbog just don't care at all if the project dies?

Not gonna buy that.

I'm sure that TLP being the only way daybreak makes money has some influence.

[cd288]

Again, I'm assuming you haven't been around since pre-2019. This is really not uncommon at all with P99. Rogean and Nilbog's enthusiasm/engagement comes in waves. Look how long it took to get Velious on Blue? And then from there, how long it took to finally get the Surefall Glade patch. And how long it took Green to even come around (years).

Sometimes they are just not that engaged with P99 for a very long time. Relax.

Also not sure what you mean by "no changes to be made". There are already things that came up during the course of Green that were non-classic that they said would be changed in the next server iteration. That takes time, work, and most importantly the desire to expend that energy for free. Eventually they will decide they feel like doing it. Until then we're in limbo. Pretty par for the course for P99.

TLP has no influence on this because that's the whole point of the legal agreement. Daybreak allowed them to operate as long as the P99 servers don't go past Velious.

[shovelquest]

So you've read the daybreak agreement?

[cd288]

?

They've discussed that aspect of it before and stated that part of the legal permission is that they don't go past Velious. Maybe try not being so opinionated about something when you don't have the historical knowledge about the subject.

[shovelquest]

Everyone has a different tale about what the agreement is.

[loramin]

So you've read the daybreak agreement?

As CD noted:

the agreement was in place well before Green existed

As per https://wiki.project1999.com/Daybreak_Game_Company, the agreement came in 2015 ... long before Green's release in 2019. So it's highly unlikely the agreement is the issue here.

Also, that same page has some great quotes from staff/former staff, which make it pretty clear Daybreak's goal was never to stop P99.

I'm sure that TLP being the only way daybreak makes money has some influence.

It would not be unreasonable for P99 to agree to avoid certain server release dates, to avoid "cannibalizing" potential players from Daybreak. The fact that Green was released in October 2019, right in-between Aradune (March, 2019) and Mangler (May 2020) adds support to this theory ... but again, no one knows for sure, and even if it was true, it wouldn't stop a new server.

we're just supposed to believe that Rogan and nilbog just don't care at all if the project dies?

Both Green and Blue are still holding a health enough population. It may not be ideal, but Project 1999 is in no danger of dying anytime soon.

Look, it is very frustrating that the P99 staff doesn't communicate. It's also frustrating that nothing appears to be happening with a new server.

But don't let your frustration lead you to draw incorrect conclusions. The staff have always been secretive, and have always always moved at a slower pace than the player base wants ... but they've also always kept to their goal of trying to enable people to experience classic EQ.

[Duik]

Everyone has a different tale about what the agreement is.

Yes. But only one of them is correct.
They (RogBog) are under no obligation to even tell us what it is.

Relaxing will help.

[Jimjam]

Remember when everyone was like “there is never gonna be another server” and green dropped out of nowhere.

Hell, remember how people were saying velious would never come to p99?

[shovelquest]

Look, it is very frustrating that the P99 staff doesn't communicate. It's also frustrating that nothing appears to be happening with a new server.

But don't let your frustration lead you to draw incorrect conclusions. The staff have always been secretive, and have always always moved at a slower pace than the player base wants ... but they've also always kept to their goal of trying to enable people to experience classic EQ.

Im not frustrated, I assume there is a legal reason this pirated game is not able to release new servers while daybreak makes the lionshare of its rev from TLP servers (which it started right around 2015, and while activision was fighting to shut down nost for that very reason with wow).

from your wiki link:

that formally recognizes Project 1999 as a fan based, not-for-profit, classic EverQuest emulation project.

I said the reason likely is its expensive and they can't make proffit and dont want to wipe the other servers.

[loramin]

Remember when everyone was like “there is never gonna be another server” and green dropped out of nowhere.

Hell, remember how people were saying velious would never come to p99?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123611

The internet will be banned before Velious comes out. Stop worrying. :(

[shovelquest]

Remember when everyone was like “there is never gonna be another server” and green dropped out of nowhere.

Hell, remember how people were saying velious would never come to p99?

Not really, I remember taking time off months in advance for green, which I was anticipating for like a year practicing classic quests.

[cd288]

Everyone has a different tale about what the agreement is.

Yeah except in this case we're talking specifically about what the literal people who signed the agreement said it says

[cd288]

Im not frustrated, I assume there is a legal reason this pirated game is not able to release new servers while daybreak makes the lionshare of its rev from TLP servers (which it started right around 2015, and while activision was fighting to shut down nost for that very reason with wow).

from your wiki link:



I said the reason likely is its expensive and they can't make proffit and dont want to wipe the other servers.

Again, there's no legal reason because Daybreak literally signed an agreement that allows new servers as long as they don't go past Velious.

They're not wiping the other servers, they'd just merge Green and Blue together as they said they would at the launch of Green (and as they've demonstrated with server merges before, it's easy to do this).

IIRC Rogean has said in the past that while server costs are not necessarily small, he has no problem covering the cost and a lot is offset through donations. And in any case, again, this wouldn't be incurring incremental cost; you would merge Green and Blue so you'd be left with the same number of servers as you have now. So your cost argument is moot as well.

This is solely a lack of energy/interest from them to do it right now. Which is okay and it's understandable. They're unpaid volunteers. Unfortunately it's par for the course for P99. Engagement comes in waves (including with Green launch where we waited years for it). Eventually they will get the energy to do it. Until then we just enjoy P99 as is.

[Jimjam]

They also already opened a second green server (teal) and merged it (into green) so new servers nor merges are completely off the table.

[shovelquest]

They also already opened a second green server (teal) and merged it (into green) so new servers nor merges are completely off the table.

That's a good point.

Again, there's no legal reason because Daybreak literally signed an agreement that allows new servers as long as they don't go past Velious.


No need to repeat yourself, it doesn't say that on the wiki link about the agreement so I'm curious where you got that information.

[loramin]

Again, there's no legal reason because Daybreak literally signed an agreement that allows new servers as long as they don't go past Velious.

No need to repeat yourself, it doesn't say that on the wiki link about the agreement so I'm curious where you got that information.

You're right, no one really knows what's in the agreement ... but if you just think about the interests of the people involved, one would expect a clause like that to be in the agreement.

Why? First look at P99: they have been very clear, from day one, that they despise "cats on the moon". The P99 folks have zero interest whatsoever in taking P99 to Luclin (or beyond), except possibly in a very limited/custom capacity (eg. offering specific AAs as the result of a custom "epic quest").

Daybreak's interests are also clear: they want to make money off live EQ. But they've decided that P99 doesn't threaten that: it's so different from live that it's not a competitor (in fact, I think they recognize that it helps keep people's interest in the game alive, and actually drives more customers to play on their servers). So their only concern is that P99 could someday become such a competitor, if they impliment Luclin+ expansions.

Agreeing not to go past Velious is in everyone's interests: Daybreak gets a guarantee that P99 won't compete with them, and P99 gives up nothing (but gets the other benefits of the agreement, most importantly an assurance that Daybreak won't attack them with lawyers).

[WarpathEQ]

I think its perfect just the way it is, but it would be cool to get a fresh server since I came to P99 after green was already in Velious. Would be fun to just start EQ on day 1 with everyone else and progress to where green/blue are now.

[cd288]

That's a good point.



No need to repeat yourself, it doesn't say that on the wiki link about the agreement so I'm curious where you got that information.

The staff have said it before

The Wiki isn't something to rely on for everything because it's totally user managed and not touched by the staff

[cd288]

You're right, no one really knows what's in the agreement ... but if you just think about the interests of the people involved, one would expect a clause like that to be in the agreement.

Agreeing not to go past Velious is in everyone's interests: Daybreak gets a guarantee that P99 won't compete with them, and P99 gives up nothing (but gets the other benefits of the agreement, most importantly an assurance that Daybreak won't attack them with lawyers).

Yeah exactly, the clause is in there because Daybreak didn't want to look like assholes shutting down a small, beloved community run project. So they agree look you guys can run the server as classic through Velious. Anything else is gonna be a problem. And as you noted, it permits new servers because the agreement was signed 4 years before Green was launched (and the idea of Green was conceived of before the agreement was signed...it's always been the intent of P99 to launch new servers and merge the old ones).

[shovelquest]

The staff have said it before

The Wiki isn't something to rely on for everything because it's totally user managed and not touched by the staff

Ahh yeah i heard the staff say they cant do any new servers, so I guess we'll never know.

[loramin]

Ahh yeah i heard the staff say they cant do any new servers, so I guess we'll never know.

Source?

[shovelquest]

It was in the same thread as the one CD heard about velious.

[cd288]

It was in the same thread as the one CD heard about velious.

Ah got it. So I think we can confirm that this guy is obviously just trolling now lol.

But at any rate, for anyone who comes across this thread later, here is part of the Green announcement from Nilbog confirming the plan is for future fresh servers 9which is consistent with what the staff have said for like 10 years now): "The green server will, at a time yet to be decided, eventually merge into blue and start over again. This merge will not happen until at least 6 months after the last patch in velious (No earlier than January 2023)."

[shovelquest]

Source?

[Naethyn]

Green is the new red and it is vitally important to the sanity of blue.

[zelld52]

I think its perfect just the way it is, but it would be cool to get a fresh server since I came to P99 after green was already in Velious. Would be fun to just start EQ on day 1 with everyone else and progress to where green/blue are now.

you say this.. but each iteration of a new server gets sweatier and sweatier.

[Hisamori]

I ain’t reading all that but happy for you tho or sorry that happened

[cd288]

you say this.. but each iteration of a new server gets sweatier and sweatier.

If you're not dead set on grabbing things like legacy items etc. then the sweatiness won't hit you as much.

[Wiltan]

I really don't get the whole "the server is dead" mentality. A couple of days ago there were two quakes in one day on Blue and still everything got dead within a few hours of each quake.

Is it just that you can't find an XP group in a leveling spot? Join a guild or make some friends, and bring your own group.

Merging Green back into Blue would just invite more toxicity and scarcity into a healthy raid scene.

[loramin]

I really don't get the whole "the server is dead" mentality. A couple of days ago there were two quakes in one day on Blue and still everything got dead within a few hours of each quake.

Is it just that you can't find an XP group in a leveling spot? Join a guild or make some friends, and bring your own group.

Merging Green back into Blue would just invite more toxicity and scarcity into a healthy raid scene.

I'm not saying the server is dead, but if you think "raid targets are cleared" = "healthy server", you need to put whatever you're smoking down.

P99 is extremely top-heavy. When there are only 200 active players left, the raid targets will still be getting cleared, because that's what most people will stick around to do.

But, most people would not consider 200 players healthy, as there's a whole lot more to this game (and the servers' health) than whether ToV is cleared on a regular basis.

[Wiltan]

It's the middle of the workday on a Tuesday and there are 262 people on Blue and 472 people on Green right now.

Maybe 200 "active players" would be bad, but I posit that the number of active players is much higher than that, considering that even during what should be a fairly low-population time of day/week, there are more on than what you're using as a low-water mark.

At any rate, merging servers won't make things any less top-heavy.

The thing that would bring in (or back) leveling players would be new content, which isn't going to happen for a number of reasons, not the least being a lack of dev availability. Beyond that, all I see are knee-jerk "doing something is better than doing nothing" suggestions. More quakes, sure, but that's for the raid scene, and doesn't do anything to draw in more lowbies. A change in meta, same thing. Nothing wrong with doing those things, but if it's a dead server because it's top-heavy, feeding the top won't make it less dead.

There are plenty of folks who still love P99 and are enjoying things the way they are. There are players in my guild and in our larger alliance dinging 60 for the first time ever; getting their first epic ever; seeing raid zones for the first time ever. Would it be nice to just show up at Highkeep and get added to a goblin group waitlist like olden times? I suppose. But as I said earlier, one can make friends or join a guild and bring their own group for that.

[cd288]

yeah idk where the 200 number is coming from. The pop tracker shows that Blue has hovered between 450-550 or so on average for the last few months. Now, I wouldn't call that a healthy pop but it's far and above 200 people just logging in to raid.

Not that this is recent, but there were also days in Q1 where Blue hit in the 700s. There are some rare days now where it gets into the 600s.

Servers should definitely be merged but they're not dead.

[loramin]

yeah idk where the 200 number is coming from.

200 was an arbitrary number I pulled out because we could all agree 200 = dead server.

My point was, we'd still have raid targets getting downed even at 200 pop (so using "raid targets getting killed" wasn't a good metric of server health).

[Toxigen]

merge em to make raiding competitive again

or until the guild that wins most absorbs the rest of the server because rooted dragons and no fte lockouts has made for the worst fucking meta ever

[Jimjam]

When will we get xp/dps group decides what to do with loot meta?

Can imagine all the shenanigans- obviously there would be sniper crews, and that will impact the meta: a rogue snipe team is doing too much dps so the tank’s guild decides to stop chain and let the mob eat through the dps and kill the snipers before picking up aggro and resuming chan / rezzing their own dps.

[Wiltan]

merge em to make raiding competitive again


Merge 'em to make Blue toxic again, you mean? Best thing that happened to Blue was when most of the neckbeards left for Green.

[kylok]

Merge, or don't merge, I don't care. Personally I think the best thing for this project is a server that follows the exact timeline of classic through velious and then resets to classic. Call it a Yellow server for all I care - that could keep things fresh. Maybe do another server with a similar timeline and then reset idea, but with slightly different rules - like Diablo has done. If cost is an issue than let us know. I'd be hugely surprised if as a community we could not tackle the cost of those proposed ideas.

All in all, I'm super happy with what the P99 team has accomplished and all of the above is purely gravy for my simple wants and needs.

[Wiltan]

The whole "reset" thing devalues all the efforts folks have put into advancing their characters though.

[kylok]

That's why you do it on it's own server. If people know it's going to happen ahead of time they can make an informed decision. Sometimes it's about the fun we have along the way and less about having a toon we can stare at on char select for 15 years knowing they've got best in slot.

[Duik]

If we did timeline accurate expansion release there would just be peeps (like me) who would never get any good loot. To me that would replicate my live experience waaay better.

Who knows, im old and have spare time now so maybe i could "neckbeard like its 1999" no wait, 50hrs for a manastone. I dont think so!

Its a museum folks, meander around if you like. Even look at things you had no previous interest in.
I never did the gnoll slayer or solvedi scimitar (what a fucken waste of a WR bag!) quests for example.
Vampire teeth quest while difficult (at level i mean) would yield a fine weapon. 7/21 pre yaks (and lvl 35?) would rock.

Or shit filled sweatpants it and do what we are doing now.
Dealers choice.

[cd288]

The whole "reset" thing devalues all the efforts folks have put into advancing their characters though.

So don't reset. Just merge it into Blue, which has been the plan of the project the entire time

[Jimjam]

I like how this conversation goes in circles like green’s recycle is supposed to.

[Wiltan]

So don't reset. Just merge it into Blue, which has been the plan of the project the entire time

It was the plan of the project for a minute five or six years ago. No reason to ruin Blue just because a vocal minority is bored.

[Wiltan]

That's why you do it on it's own server. If people know it's going to happen ahead of time they can make an informed decision. Sometimes it's about the fun we have along the way and less about having a toon we can stare at on char select for 15 years knowing they've got best in slot.

So your solution to supposed server health issues is to create a new temporary server a handful of folks would go to knowing that their characters would be deleted from that server after a few years.

Solid idea. Five stars, no notes.

[Jimjam]

It was the plan of the project for a minute five or six years ago. No reason to ruin Blue just because a vocal minority is bored.

Has there been anything explicitly communicating that plan changed?

Don't you reckon many green players are server hoppers (evidenced by them leaving blue for green) so you don’t really need to worry about them rejoining blue, if that is your problem?

[Wiltan]

Explicitly? Not that I've been able to find. I can only find the one or two times the idea of a future merge was mentioned before Green ever launched. But clearly circumstances have changed: besides the obvious negative impact a merge would have on both servers' communities, economies, and raid scenes, the most obvious impediment is that the devs are gone.

Assuming that everyone that is currently on green is a server hopper is crazypants. Yes, some folks hopped over there because it was the new shiny thing, but plenty of people started over there (because despite all this talk of dead servers, new folks join P99 all the time). Additionally, a lot of those server hoppers might have wanted to finally experience a brand new server, because maybe they missed that on Live. Now they have, and don't feel like starting all over again on P99 a third time.

Anyway, the TL;DR of all of this comes down to a combination of if it ain't broke, don't fix it plus I don't accept the premise that the server is broken and needs fixing plus there aren't devs here any more to do these things, so there's not much point talking about it anyway.

To your earlier point about the conversation going in circles, you're right. I've taken my spin around the loop and I've said my piece. See you on the other side.

[cd288]

It was the plan of the project for a minute five or six years ago. No reason to ruin Blue just because a vocal minority is bored.

First, it wasn't for a minute. The staff said it was the plan and then said they would consider not doing it if server pop remained what it was.

Second, ruin Blue? I'm not here arguing that either server is entirely dead, but Blue is definitely desperate for more population. Very difficult to level, even in the largest guilds on the server most people are not leveling lower level alts...the vast majority of PUGs (from guild or just randoms) that I've been in in the last 18 months are in the level 50 range - and I'm talking like 95%. The economy is basically dead except for high level/big ticket items. Green is not quite as bad, but it's not far off that either.

I think you're just nervous about more competition in the raid scene (which will be minimized to some extent by the fact that a lot of Blue raiders are also in the Green raiding guilds, so they'll likely merge to some degree).

[Toxigen]

There is no downside to a merge.

[Jimjam]

There is no downside to a merge.

Do you really want THOSE green in the FACE sick FUCKS doing an MQ of their DISGUSTING green PLANKS to our virgin BLUE rangers?!

[shovelquest]

The whole "reset" thing devalues all the efforts folks have put into advancing their characters though.

:o

https://i.imgur.com/o7XjnCl.png

[Allishia]

First, it wasn't for a minute. The staff said it was the plan and then said they would consider not doing it if server pop remained what it was.

Second, ruin Blue? I'm not here arguing that either server is entirely dead, but Blue is definitely desperate for more population. Very difficult to level, even in the largest guilds on the server most people are not leveling lower level alts...the vast majority of PUGs (from guild or just randoms) that I've been in in the last 18 months are in the level 50 range - and I'm talking like 95%. The economy is basically dead except for high level/big ticket items. Green is not quite as bad, but it's not far off that either.

I think you're just nervous about more competition in the raid scene (which will be minimized to some extent by the fact that a lot of Blue raiders are also in the Green raiding guilds, so they'll likely merge to some degree).

Last paragraph hit nail on the head imo. Only reason not to want merge is fear of competition in raid scene /nod

We need a merge even for group content on blue, KC primetime has 1 or 2 groups if lucky...it's depressing. Both servers are suffering population wise, it's not even close to 2000 people anymore even with both servers combined. Will only get worse once quarm releases luclin and more migrate over.

[Allishia]

Do you really want THOSE green in the FACE sick FUCKS doing an MQ of their DISGUSTING green PLANKS to our virgin BLUE rangers?!

Yes, merge for the planks, we need every ranger to have a BFG =P

[Snaggles]

1.) Merge the servers, or don’t. Who cares?
2.) Ban the toxic people who create 95% of the raid issues.

If 2.) is offensive, sorry you’re the real server problem.

[kylok]

So your solution to supposed server health issues is to create a new temporary server a handful of folks would go to knowing that their characters would be deleted from that server after a few years.

Solid idea. Five stars, no notes.

I think having more play style options is a decent idea personally. The one I would enjoy may not be what someone else enjoys. I personally do feel that burn out is possibly the largest issue for player retention that our wonderful little elf sim faces.

I'll let you resume the merge/no merge debate though :cool:

[Viscere]

The Staff said they planned to merge Blue and Green, they have been clear about that.

Slowly letting blue die is a shame, when merging both as initially intended would clearly strongly revivify the experience from leveling to economy.

I believe however it would put a strain on CSR to organize this - so that might be the blocker.

[Viscere]

This is the exact point of the quote: Please communicate the future. If the servers are locked forever in perpetuity, fine, but please let us know this.

Exactly I feel the lack of communication here is the real issue & making most of the damage

[Jimjam]

Exactly I feel the lack of communication here is the real issue & making most of the damage

If only there was an announcement forum containing a thread which outlines the eventual plans for Green that any and all could check on :confused:

edit: I agree with your earlier post that the key issue may well be CSR load.

[Toxigen]

I could have sworn I read somewhere that guides can play on whatever server they don't guide on?

Maybe I'm onto something...

[Jimjam]

I guess that is why there is such strong CSR on Red.

[cd288]

I could have sworn I read somewhere that guides can play on whatever server they don't guide on?

Maybe I'm onto something...

I think this is a rule yes. So it creates an awkward CSR situation where you'd basically have to let them play on the server they'd guide on. Only real impediment I can think of to a merge

[Toxigen]

they can all play on red...double the population!

[Arkaan]

Merge all servers except red and make this server dynamic.

Newly created characters can choose their starting era, and choose when to advance the era, always forward. There should be only 3 eras with historic progression events rolled into the 3 eras to evoid splitting the population.

New characters could start in pre-kunark and hoard all the legacies in pre-kunark, then advance to kunark where they will join that population, then velious. That is 3 way split with all eras available.

[kylok]

Merge all servers except red and make this server dynamic.

Newly created characters can choose their starting era, and choose when to advance the era, always forward. There should be only 3 eras with historic progression events rolled into the 3 eras to evoid splitting the population.

New characters could start in pre-kunark and hoard all the legacies in pre-kunark, then advance to kunark where they will join that population, then velious. That is 3 way split with all eras available.

Sounds complicated to implement but very cool!

[Arkaan]

Sounds complicated to implement but very cool!

Not extremely complicated. It would look like 3 sets of zones, a single DB and logon server. An extra column in a char meta table or similar in the DB would indicate current era. Item tables would have 3 copies. The logon server would just select the appropriate era zone server to log the player into. Of course I have no way of knowing the structure of Nil / Rog's DB

There are a lot of implications. Entire guilds could plan out their own progression, and repeat them with fresh chars whenever they like.

[trajega]

That would be really cool. Be able to take your time with skill / gear without facing a clock of when they will become antiquated, and forever lost again to memories.

[eisley]

All told, this game had a good run. Nothing lasts forever. I guess I feel bad for the folks who didn't play during the golden era but there is absolutely nothing that will bring it back. Green proved that. Not to mention we're a mile from "classic" at this point.

[shovelquest]

there is something so ironic about there being a good old days for a good old days EMU

[eisley]

there is something so ironic about there being a good old days for a good old days EMU


I mean, isn't that precisely what you'd expect?


It's classic.

[shovelquest]

I mean, isn't that precisely what you'd expect?


It's classic.

but what's out side, the outside, of the universe!

[Prismaticshop]

merge Green/blue !!

[Jimjam]

Split teal merge blue and green.

[aaezil]

Many players failed to follow pnp or raid rules. Csr failed to enforce said things. Devs are absent. I think that pretty much sums up the last decade here

[Pint]

Boxing on blue when

[Jimjam]

CSR doesn’t have to be absent. There is dozens of people who want to do the job.

CSR just won’t leave their positions to allow active people to do it. Just hold on to that power for as long as possible while being memelords.

I love all our p99 hobbyists - a great bunch of guys and gals. That said I would be reluctant to hand out even a smidgen of power to quite a few of them.

[Misek84]

On the topic of legacy items, how many Fungus Staff even dropped on Green. I remember rumors that when kunark opened on green there was a group down there for weeks and did not see any drop. This seemed ridiculous considering they weren’t not that rare on live since king was a lot more common on live.

[cd288]

Major patch with a ton of classic changes just dropped. Wonder if that means engagement is ramping back up?

I feel like I remember the staff saying there was lots of non-classic stuff they'd identified through Green that they would want to change for the next server. I'm sure it's more than what they changed in the patch yesterday, but I wonder if this is a sign that they're back to working toward getting to a position where Green 2.0 will be a thing.

[Lambparade]

Major patch with a ton of classic changes just dropped. Wonder if that means engagement is ramping back up?

I feel like I remember the staff saying there was lots of non-classic stuff they'd identified through Green that they would want to change for the next server. I'm sure it's more than what they changed in the patch yesterday, but I wonder if this is a sign that they're back to working toward getting to a position where Green 2.0 will be a thing.

I have very high hopes for a new server. Why would you go about bug fixing time locked specific things if you weren't going to release a new server?

Honestly tho I most likely wouldn't even touch a new green until kunark. I got a green characters now I'm still working on :)

[WarpathEQ]

I wouldn't hold your breath. If you keep an eye on some of the bug fixes threads the devs have been making fixes for years that were never implemented because a new patch was never released.

So its not like all of a sudden in the last months the devs dug in and changed/fixed a bunch of stuff because they are planning a new server, this patch was just a culmination of all of the things they've address that have been brought up in the forums with supporting evidence going back several years. The fixes were done just needed a patch release to actually implement them.

[spoil]

I'm not holding my breath either, but surely a new patch means they haven't basically abandoned the project like a lot of people were saying.

[Jimjam]

I'm not holding my breath either, but surely a new patch means they haven't basically abandoned the project like a lot of people were saying.

People been fretting the project is abandoned for close to decades just cos there is no "everything is okay" alarm.

I'm not even gonna notice when the project actually does die, cos claims project is dead are now glasscock.

[Scroll]

People been fretting the project is abandoned for close to decades just cos there is no "everything is okay" alarm.

I'm not even gonna notice when the project actually does die, cos claims project is dead are now glasscock.

This.

[Sonark]

Boxing on blue when

I started playing on blue in 2017 and people were boxing all the time.

[Old_PVP]

Merge them all into RED. You all deserve to be humbled into seeing what a dead server looks like.

[aaezil]

First off, I love P99. I messed around a bit in Classic and eventually made my Bard Tewaz the night Kunark dropped. I was running around killing stuff in Black Burrow and there was a fun event where mobs would drop an item that you could turn in to an NPC and get some random piece of gear back. I got a Froglock Crown and I was absolutely floored. I got up to my 50's, joined Knights who say Ni and did a bit of poopsock raiding, but mainly spent my time aoe kiting all of OT and BW with some of the legends like Deejay and Hmotzart (sorry for the 25 mob limit). I've played off and on since then. I usually play about 6 months per year with some pretty intense play during the Red exp increase in 2015-2017 and on Blue over the past two years.

I have played to 60 on red and blue and into the 50s on Green. I've raided from scratch with people trying to steal kills in HoT to gear their first toon, I've killed every target in the game and made probably 100 alts at this point. I've done the poopsock meta, the trainout meta, the OBS meta, and even the get camped until your entire guild quits playing Red meta.

All this to say, I'm worried about our servers and there is a huge elephant in the room that no one at the top, CSR, or player level really wants to talk about.

We are losing players across all servers.

Whether it's Quarm, stale meta, 15 years of P99, old age, whatever, players are leaving the server.

On Blue we are seeing more and more common targets sit up uncontested like Vindi, Ayillish, and HoT Minis. The EC tunnel is full of WTB and almost every item for sale is a high end item. Targets people want being left up is cool I think, but it is also a sign of failing population.

So I wanted to start a thread talking about the future. Here are the limiting factors:

1. CSR has made it clear that future development on the server is delayd, so suggestions should keep that in mind. Examples: No Luclin or custom content, no major changes to things like spawn windows, respawn timers, mob pathing, or drop chance, etc.
.
2. Merging seems to be off the table. It was a part of the initial idea for Green, but appears to be dead for unclear reasons. That being said, Green (and Red too, why not?) being merged into Blue would do a lot for project health.

3. Certain players/guilds that constantly push the envelope of what is tolerated in the raid scene are not going anywhere. CSR hasn't dropped permanent bans since Sirkin's reign, so suggesting their removal is pointless.

So what are your recommendations to improve the project and keep it growing/thriving past year 15?

A few of mine:

1. Try new metas for the raid scene, but try ones that have a possibility of becoming THE meta. No SoW FTE lock and camp rules are the two put forth and they seem like they are meant to vex 95% of the raid scene population.

2. Shake up natural respawn windows. This is the 100% largest issue with the raid scene in my opinion. Classic or not, a 24 hour window on ST golems is absolutely insane. Even if the respawn is classic, race lines, FTE yellow texts, and train pulls are clearly not classic. It is also a pointless mechanic that wastes people's real life hours when most of us have already given years to this server. It's just silly to have it in a game in 2024. Addressing this would also lead to less gigantic guilds.

KWSM on Blue put forward an idea to reduce spawn windows by making any spawn in the first half of the window stay up and become an FTE race at the half way point of the window, and if mob spawns in the second half it is FTE like normal. This single idea would instantly increase participation for natural respawns, it requires no development and would be policed by the players easily. Socking half a window would appeal

3. Standardize player agreements for Scout, Ring 8, Ring 10, and Angry. Level range, time to roll, time to kill can all be easily standardized across both servers.

4. Address the bottleneck camps in the game like DS. As the server population drops and new players choose other servers, the demand for these types of items increases. I don't have any ideas for this outside of developer changes, but it is an issue that will slowly increase over time unless there is a population decline.

5. More Quakes. I know quakes are meant to mimic server crashes in the early 2000s, but this is the single best event on Blue and more of these in prime time help players that have played the game for 10 years and don't have items they're chasing.

6. Legacy items. This is more of a blue problem. As players retire (or get banned) a lot of this gear has disappeared. Beads are needed by a lot of guilds for pulling HoT and they are clearly an advantage item that is a MUST HAVE in the current DA train meta. Sure Eashen and other targets are doable without but taking 30 minutes to kill Eashen greatly hinders a guild and that can hemorrage members very quickly.

7. Communicate. That's it. Someone with any knowledge of the future. Please. Communicate.

The solution is pretty easy: Make this gear available during every CSR event. CSR has done this but it's so rare that it's absolutely insane. Most players on blue would probably delete two of their level 60 characters for a guise on one. We are at year 9 of Velious...Velious lasted 9 months on live. They added a casino on live in the next expansion with these items available. Also this would cut down on the RMT problem because no one needs to buy 1.3 million platinum to afford beads on Blue.

I remember loot raining on us during early P1999 GM events and also on live. Hell, I remember getting a Luclin item at a GM event BEFORE THE EXPANSION DROPPED. Adding any means of legacy items would be incredible and the only path to that now is CSR making it part of events. I'd throw a random guise on Velketor or some other super low priority target every quake just for the fun because why not?

I'd like to hear other player suggestions. I'd love to hear what CSR says about this. I would be absolutely floored to have even the smallest inkling of communication about the future of these servers from Nilbog or Rogean.

Nah mate the 16/24 window garbage is far from classic. stuff used to just spawn in a week give or take a tiny variance.

This combined with the absolute refusal of staff to disband/remove problem guilds/players have left the game uninteresting to raid and sometimes horrible people you have to interact/communicate with when you do raid have made the server basically unplayable for a lot of people when options like quarm exist.

[Naethyn]

#K1C1

[Eisai]

I'm so jealous of anyone that is able to play eq right now... Even the red guys! I would do anything for/to anyone if it got me back in the pixals. I know, poor sad loser i must be; but I'd take norrath over any other addiction. I would love to be there with everyone; anyone. Any client, any server, any expansion, any class; guild. I haven't been on/in for over two years and it's miserable! It physically hurts to be without my precious! It's my joy; my happy thought; my soulmate. It's one of only three things that i have never desired to change about my past present or future. I totally see how pathetic that seems but i believe that the only purpose in life is to find the things that make you happy and do them as much as you can, and this is my thing. I am great at it, sure, but i spend almost every moment in game sharing my favorite thing in the world with any person willing to experience it with me. I love it so so much! I hope i find a way back soon... I miss everyone, even those of you that i haven't even met yet.

:(

Ugh... So friggin lame...

My name is Juliet and I'm am addict.

/sit

[Snaggles]

Imagine if all the people who only hang on because of the sunk cost fallacy would go play on a server like quarm or thj where they would actually have fun. Blue might look like Red at that point.

I don’t know what is more sad: Just playing the sim you likely regret getting into or looking for the “next big thing” which is just another sim with a different coat of paint.

I won’t defend my time spent here but sure as F won’t go hunting for cracked staves for the 3rd time in my life. EQ is 95% community and routine, if you like your guild here there is little reason to leave.

[XDrake]

At max population P99 was a boutique experience. Now it’s even more sparse.

Instead of missing all the extra people think of yourself as a very peculiar influencer who plays an elf sim. It’s basically a custom server at this point…invite some friends.

It's amazing I have two eras of nostalgia... Classic Live and P99!

Experiencing the Classic Era and Kunark Era for both was amazing. The joy of people seeing Classic EQ again was wonderful. Still is, but I think people want a new beginning.

If merging Green into Blue is possible a New Green would be popular again.

Some of my best times were when each era was new.

Many folks returned for Green. I think we'd see a big push again.

The thing that is most displeasing is that staff has been quiet. I appreciate everything with P99 and the countless hours of work they put into it and still do. But this is a very popular issue... I feel hearing there is some agreement with Daybreak saying new green is possible. It has no source but baseless rumor, but even just acknowledgement of plans for the next 2-3 years would be great. If they are all but certain the quest to re-create the early era of EQ that's a fine answer too.

Just wish there was an answer.

[jolanar]

It's amazing I have two eras of nostalgia... Classic Live and P99!

I don't know who here said it first, but I'll say it again: at this point I think I am more nostalgic for my early P99 days than I am my early EQ days.

[Eisai]

I am the future.

[Wiltan]

But this is a very popular issue...

I think you'll find as many people hate the idea of a server merge as those that like the idea.

I don't have any objection to them spinning up a new server; they could turn Teal back on whenever they want, presumably. But that's no reason to punish Blue by forcing a merge upon us.

[cd288]

The thing that is most displeasing is that staff has been quiet. I appreciate everything with P99 and the countless hours of work they put into it and still do. But this is a very popular issue... I feel hearing there is some agreement with Daybreak saying new green is possible. It has no source but baseless rumor, but even just acknowledgement of plans for the next 2-3 years would be great. If they are all but certain the quest to re-create the early era of EQ that's a fine answer too.

Just wish there was an answer.

The agreement with Daybreak isn't an issue. It permits servers as long as they don't go past Velious. if you look at staff comments, they haven't been completely quiet recently either. Nilbog answered a question of mine in another thread saying that a change made in the recent patch would also be reflected in "future iterations of the server" or something to that degree. There will eventually be a new server, we just don't know when.

And the reason we don't know exactly when is because our community isn't very forgiving (or at least IMO that's probably one of the reasons). These are unpaid volunteers with limited free time and real life responsibilities. There's no benefit to them to give us a timeline, because if real life gets in the way and they miss the deadline they'll just take a bunch of abuse from the community.

[Balur]

It's amazing I have two eras of nostalgia... Classic Live and P99!

Experiencing the Classic Era and Kunark Era for both was amazing. The joy of people seeing Classic EQ again was wonderful. Still is, but I think people want a new beginning.

I played EverQuest from phase 3 beta through Kunark. I discovered P99 14 years later.

I haven't logged onto Green or Blue in years, but I have great appreciation for the people who created this project. Playing here rekindled a lot of dormant memories and allowed me to experience an era of EverQuest I missed out on (Velious).

Like everyone else, I hope for one more chance to play on a fresh server. The McQuaid-era EverQuest fan base is aging out, so the next server will probably be the last time a significant amount of us will gather in one place.

[Swish]

A lot of players in the 40s and 50s now. RetireQuest is gonna be great amirite guys? :)

[jolanar]

Used to play with a guy who was retired back in original EQ. I remember being soooo jealous that he got to play all day long.

Anyways hes probably dead now.

[Atmas]

I don't know who here said it first, but I'll say it again: at this point I think I am more nostalgic for my early P99 days than I am my early EQ days.

Live had a lot of memories through PoP. P99 early Velious was pretty peak.

[Gozuk]

I think you'll find as many people hate the idea of a server merge as those that like the idea.

I honestly really doubt this. I know this discussion has been beat to death but I am pretty confident that most people would agree that (if possible) a merge would be best.

[Eisai]

Most of the antimergers are in competitive guilds, many of them raiding on both servers. A merger means many more racers for half as many races.

This is why i don't care either way about merger debate. Just turn back on teal for triple the fun. We'll be playing on RGB servers while we legacy /list anyhow.

[cd288]

I honestly really doubt this. I know this discussion has been beat to death but I am pretty confident that most people would agree that (if possible) a merge would be best.

Agreed. As someone with multiple 50s chars on both servers I would LOVE a merge. Norrath with a few/several hundred people on a server just kinda sucks. The world feels dead and not as immersive as Norrath normally does.

As for another comment above, I raid competitively on and off and I would still love a merge.

People are forgetting that a merge would likely mean a new server at that time or not that long after. A merge wouldn't be "okay now it's just Blue forever"

[Wiltan]

Most of the antimergers are in competitive guilds, many of them raiding on both servers. A merger means many more racers for half as many races.

This is why i don't care either way about merger debate. Just turn back on teal for triple the fun. We'll be playing on RGB servers while we legacy /list anyhow.

I'm in a moderately competitive guild but only play on one server. I hate the idea of a merge though, for exactly the reason you mentioned.

[cd288]

I'm in a moderately competitive guild but only play on one server. I hate the idea of a merge though, for exactly the reason you mentioned.

I've never understood this mentality on a classic EQ server. One of the whole reasons classic EQ is what we like is the lack of instances and the whole mentality of "I want to be able to do what I want when I want" not necessarily being catered to. Part of that includes competition during raiding, sometimes heightened competition.

If competition is a reason you wouldn't want a server to be more populated, then why play on a non-instanced server at all? Why not play on a server that has instanced raiding?

Just seems like going to like an Italian restaurant and wanting them to have Mexican food. Like why not go to the place that has what you want?

[Wiltan]

I've never understood this mentality on a classic EQ server. One of the whole reasons classic EQ is what we like is the lack of instances and the whole mentality of "I want to be able to do what I want when I want" not necessarily being catered to. Part of that includes competition during raiding, sometimes heightened competition.

If competition is a reason you wouldn't want a server to be more populated, then why play on a non-instanced server at all? Why not play on a server that has instanced raiding?

Just seems like going to like an Italian restaurant and wanting them to have Mexican food. Like why not go to the place that has what you want?

You assume we all play on P99 because of certain hassles instead of in spite of them. I don't care if there's a bit more competition, but right now Blue has a competitive but not overly toxic raid scene. There's enough competition to allow the neckbeards to flex, but there's still pixels to go around.

Honestly I'm starting to think most of the folks that are dying for a merge to happen are just the folks that rushed over to green when it launched so they could farm a bunch of pre-nerf items they hoped to sell once things merged back. The rest of it is just a somewhat plausible reason to say instead of "waaah, I wanna sell some of these mana stones". (Not saying that's you, specifically.)

Complaining that it's not hard enough to get FTE on raid mobs will never make sense to me.

[Ennewi]

I've never understood this mentality on a classic EQ server. One of the whole reasons classic EQ is what we like is the lack of instances and the whole mentality of "I want to be able to do what I want when I want" not necessarily being catered to. Part of that includes competition during raiding, sometimes heightened competition.

If competition is a reason you wouldn't want a server to be more populated, then why play on a non-instanced server at all? Why not play on a server that has instanced raiding?

Just seems like going to like an Italian restaurant and wanting them to have Mexican food. Like why not go to the place that has what you want?

IMO it isn't competition that's the issue per se but that it has been e-sport level competition with little in the way of meaningful punishment for rule-breaking and/or blatant cheating. Even where a punishment has been substantial, eventually it's been quietly walked back. The larger the population, the more scarcity of and demand for loot, the more likely there will be that player who will secure each win by any means necessary, outperforming competitors every time, leaving them to choose between losing and breaking rules/cheating as well. None of that is appealing, personally.

So, in that one way, there's a positive to the lower population. People are way more chill, which is how things seemed to have been in classic on most PVE servers.

The downsides of a lower population are obvious though. As someone who prefers grouping over soloing and raiding, most zones have now been reduced to soloing or bringing your own guild group; without any of the previous fancy ZEM changes, those zones remain largely empty. That said, they are decent options for soloing, though less so now for bards due to the anti-swarm rule in dungeons.

It's not worth pitchforking/torching over, but the time to establish that rule was years ago when the population was high and groups were abundant, forcing those problem players to either solo outdoors or join groups indoors, assuming anyone would have them after ruining their server faction. On blue, much of Norrath is basically an RPG. As unclassic as that feels, it can be fun experimenting around, finding new ways/areas to solo. This is the game, for now at least.

[WarpathEQ]

I've never understood this mentality on a classic EQ server. One of the whole reasons classic EQ is what we like is the lack of instances and the whole mentality of "I want to be able to do what I want when I want" not necessarily being catered to. Part of that includes competition during raiding, sometimes heightened competition.

If competition is a reason you wouldn't want a server to be more populated, then why play on a non-instanced server at all? Why not play on a server that has instanced raiding?

Just seems like going to like an Italian restaurant and wanting them to have Mexican food. Like why not go to the place that has what you want?

One of my favorite restaurants in town serves both mexican and italian food. Not fusion you either order mexican or italian and both are incredible. Its run by a family that originally came from Mexico and their first experience was working in high end italian restaurants in New York learning classic italian cuisine. Just saying its a lot better than you make it out to be.

[Jalico]

Not having read through all of the posts but simply to put my opinion on here (not that it actually matters to anyone), I think a merger would allow for "archiving" of characters that have gone through all the old content and are now caught up to the Blue server again..... Restarting Green would bring back that "newbie" experience again and reinvigorate everyone that came back to the servers again when Green originally started.

I know this was one of the original thoughts but I thought it was good for many reasons.... keeping the market and idea of blue alive with no wasted characters and letting green be the early experience we all loved.

Anyways.... just wanted to get it out, love the community and p99.