starter points for monk

[gamewin]

Wiki says to put +20 points into stamina for creating a monk.

Is there a better alternative and why

[Troxx]

I went max str on my monk and have never regretted it. Worked fine for me all the way up to 60. Nice QoL.

Velious was beaten in kunark gear. Having 20 less stamina won’t make or break anything.

[Jimjam]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:BiS_Max_HPS

This high hp monk build is still far off max str unbuffed even if it had dumped str it wouldn’t have been capped.

Also it is 20sta over cap.

[Jimjam]

Fair enough, it was the first I pulled off of wiki.

There is another magelo for what ssouky was apparently wearing ten years ago https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Ssouky

This is a 10/10 split for str sta starting points. This one massively overcaps stamina but fails to cap str too.

[PatChapp]

If your poor starting out,str probably more useful.
If your twinked,the gear will make up for anything anyway.
Go outside the box and be a +int smartie monk

[Namsaknoi]

starting slightly from backwards:
Cha - mainly for selling, cap is I believe 114 to sell at best price, Crude Stein, Gypsy Medallion, Crown of King Tranix or Kobold Jester's Crown, Opalline Earrings and/or couple of +cha JC gets you there easily. Will you really put +20 Cha for starting stats on a Monk for Puppet Strings?
Int - You can get tradeskill gear easier with Wis as a Monk
Wis - Easy to hit 220+ Wis with chanter buff and Wis cheap/medium price Wis gear, harder/more expensive for 250+ but it won't matter much, and will you really burn 20 Wis for starting stats as a Monk? Other than Ring 8/9/10, and Coldain Prayer Shawl for Wis gear, why else will you need Wis for? Do you really need to sacrifice starting stats for it?
Dex - Proc and weapon skill increase speed, for skill increase I would not waste point on it. For proc, if you have primal weapons then it is irrelevant, Shaman Focus + Dex gets you 255 dex easily also. What procs do you need, Gharn's, root, snare, stun? Do you really want to use 20 Dex for that?
Agi - It is very difficult for a Monk to go below 75 Agi. Increase chance to raise defensive skills, but very irrelevant in that aspect, so easy to cap any defensive skills on any class on P99 or live, after that 9 Agi = 1AC ish. AC is pretty broken on P99, even on live I wouldn't burn 20 starting stats on Agi for 9 Agi = 1AC
Sta - Not too difficult to hit 255sta, especially with Shaman buff, you can also cast Spirit of Ox with Velious legs if no Shaman available, yet 20 Sta = 80hp, especially when you are on corpse run and naked, will benefit Mend also
Str - Also not easy to cap without NTOV/BIS stuff, yet again Primal weapons, Focus, Shaman Str or Druid Str, etc etc, helps atk and weapon damage with or without buffs up to 255, helps with encumber although you will be more concerned with AC drop from over Monk weight limited of 18-24 wt before that
Conclusion: If you don't need any extra edge to level slightly faster by putting 20 into Str, I don't think you will ever regret putting 20 Sta as starting stats on a Monk

[Toxigen]

If you're new and unsure if you'll ever even raid, STR, 100%.

[gamewin]

starting slightly from backwards:
Cha - mainly for selling, cap is I believe 114 to sell at best price, Crude Stein, Gypsy Medallion, Crown of King Tranix or Kobold Jester's Crown, Opalline Earrings and/or couple of +cha JC gets you there easily. Will you really put +20 Cha for starting stats on a Monk for Puppet Strings?
Int - You can get tradeskill gear easier with Wis as a Monk
Wis - Easy to hit 220+ Wis with chanter buff and Wis cheap/medium price Wis gear, harder/more expensive for 250+ but it won't matter much, and will you really burn 20 Wis for starting stats as a Monk? Other than Ring 8/9/10, and Coldain Prayer Shawl for Wis gear, why else will you need Wis for? Do you really need to sacrifice starting stats for it?
Dex - Proc and weapon skill increase speed, for skill increase I would not waste point on it. For proc, if you have primal weapons then it is irrelevant, Shaman Focus + Dex gets you 255 dex easily also. What procs do you need, Gharn's, root, snare, stun? Do you really want to use 20 Dex for that?
Agi - It is very difficult for a Monk to go below 75 Agi. Increase chance to raise defensive skills, but very irrelevant in that aspect, so easy to cap any defensive skills on any class on P99 or live, after that 9 Agi = 1AC ish. AC is pretty broken on P99, even on live I wouldn't burn 20 starting stats on Agi for 9 Agi = 1AC
Sta - Not too difficult to hit 255sta, especially with Shaman buff, you can also cast Spirit of Ox with Velious legs if no Shaman available, yet 20 Sta = 80hp, especially when you are on corpse run and naked, will benefit Mend also
Str - Also not easy to cap without NTOV/BIS stuff, yet again Primal weapons, Focus, Shaman Str or Druid Str, etc etc, helps atk and weapon damage with or without buffs up to 255, helps with encumber although you will be more concerned with AC drop from over Monk weight limited of 18-24 wt before that
Conclusion: If you don't need any extra edge to level slightly faster by putting 20 into Str, I don't think you will ever regret putting 20 Sta as starting stats on a Monk

Regarding Dex -- Im assuming T staff will be my go to weapon once level 50. Wouldn't it be beneficial to put the points into dex then?

By the way I have no plans on raiding atm

[Toxigen]

Regarding Dex -- Im assuming T staff will be my go to weapon once level 50. Wouldn't it be beneficial to put the points into dex then?

By the way I have no plans on raiding atm

oh if you're gonna be a heavy twink then yeah...T Staff may proc a bit more often with dex

idk how it works out vs STR if you're always under cap tho...and STA will yield higher mend healing

i dont think there is a wrong answer between the 3 (if you'll be under STR cap) just flavor

[Snaggles]

IMHO go strength. It would suck to overcap a stat but this allows an easier road to maxing attack power.

If you are a DPS that’s under the STR cap, buffed or not, you are doing less DPS. Worst case having more STR lets you wear resist jewelry as needed.

Plus velious leather pants have a Spirit of the Ox click which is 23 STA.

[Swish]

Just throw an emerald at a shaman for raiding, get avatar and the STR shortage is no issue.

[Keebz]

Have you people ever heard of Avatar? For end game, it's STA by a mile, but it doesn't really matter.

[Jimjam]

Dude says he’s not into raiding, so imo we can’t assume avatar/focus/etc stat pad buffs.

[sajbert]

20STA for the optimal minmax max MR raid puller without stamina-buff. Incredibly niche and never really gonna be put into practice.

20 CHA for highest overall stats with Avatar proc and BIS-gear. Cha is pretty useless though.

20 DEX for fastest primal proc and best Tstaff Twink-experience. You can proc primal on Holgresh Beads though making it largely redundant at 60 and many of the best monk weapons are no-proc weapons.

20 STA or STR for best leveling without proc weapon and 20STA for self-buffee max sta without several thousands of DKP on monk gear.


IMO: STA or DEX and I think DEX is cooler.

[Toxigen]

for 90% of players its STR

[gamewin]

What does DKP stand for?

I know… I’m a noob

[Troxx]

Dragon Kill Points. It is the currency earned for participation in guild activities - later spent to “buy” gear from things the collective group kills.

<Afterlife> on Mithaniel Marr was, I think, the first guild to use this terminology. It spread quickly. They were serverwide best guild for a while with a crap ton of server firsts - later battling it out with other neckbeard poopsocking guilds like <Fire of Heavens> for BotB.

[shovelquest]

Dragon Kill Points. It is the currency earned for participation in guild activities - later spent to “buy” gear from things the collective group kills.

<Afterlife> on Mithaniel Marr was, I think, the first guild to use this terminology. It spread quickly. They were serverwide best guild for a while with a crap ton of server firsts - later battling it out with other neckbeard poopsocking guilds like <Fire of Heavens> for BotB.

Wow, chat GPT says:

The phrase "DKP" (Dragon Kill Points) was first coined and used in the online RPG EverQuest in the late 1990s. The concept was developed by a player named Thott, a member of the guild Afterlife on the Veeshan server, to manage loot distribution during raids. The term "Dragon Kill Points" specifically referred to the points awarded to players for participating in killing raid bosses (like dragons), and these points could then be used to bid on items that dropped from those bosses.

what was the first publication thott made about it

ChatGPT said:

Thott, a member of the guild Afterlife in EverQuest, first publicly documented the Dragon Kill Points (DKP) system on the guild's website. The earliest known publication about DKP was on the Afterlife guild's website, where Thott detailed the rules and mechanics of the system. This documentation was meant to explain how the guild handled loot distribution during raids, ensuring fairness and transparency among its members.

Unfortunately, specific dates and the exact content of the first publication are not easily accessible due to the age of the material and the evolution of web hosting since the late 1990s. However, it's well known that this publication occurred around 1999 or 2000, shortly after the implementation of DKP in EverQuest, making it one of the earliest and most influential posts about the system.

what was the URL of that website?

ChatGPT said:

The website where Thott first published the details of the DKP system was part of the Afterlife guild's site, which was originally hosted at www.afterlifeguild.org. This website was the online presence for the Afterlife guild in EverQuest, where they shared strategies, raid logs, and other guild-related information, including the documentation of the DKP system.


Cool I found this! I didn't know this bit of history. Dragon Lotto!

https://web.archive.org/web/20010124020900/http://www.afterlifeguild.org/?page=dkp (Afterlife DKP system Wayback Machine)

https://i.imgur.com/aTIPM5m.png

I think when this happening, I was still wrestling with a snake outside of misty.

[Keebz]

For posterity, that's the OG implementation. Here guilds set the DKP amount players receive per event (or per hour) and then when an item drops players present at the raid bid DKP for items like it's cash. There's been a few notable deviations of this, but generally this is how guilds distribute loot.

[Troxx]

Wow, chat GPT says...

Chat GPT got some stuff wrong. <Afterlife> was on my server Mithaniel Marr. I watched these guys in action when they weren’t raiding. Eventually this was merged into Saryrn server and later with another but not Veeshan. Hobben was the guild leader. Thott (bard) was one of the officers and is responsible for a lot of the groundbreaking discoveries and achievements.

I forget when they finally ended up folding but I’m pretty sure it was Gates of Discord. They were premier at least through the end of PoP and might have gotten the first Quarm kill. GoD was problematic for lots of reasons.

[shovelquest]

True, it does say mithral marr forum on that screenshot!

Stupid satanic computer!

[Evia]

Chat GPT got some stuff wrong. <Afterlife> was on my server Mithaniel Marr. I watched these guys in action when they weren’t raiding. Eventually this was merged into Saryrn server and later with another but not Veeshan. Hobben was the guild leader. Thott (bard) was one of the officers and is responsible for a lot of the groundbreaking discoveries and achievements.

I forget when they finally ended up folding but I’m pretty sure it was Gates of Discord. They were premier at least through the end of PoP and might have gotten the first Quarm kill. GoD was problematic for lots of reasons.

Thott did a lot for WoW too. He made thottbot for example which was like the first quest GPS system.

[cd288]

Max dex. You don't cap it with gear.

It is the only tangible way to increase aggro you have when being relied on to tank, and once you're geared you're tanking most things fairly well. Nor do you have the buff slots available to stack dex with fos, nor avatar. 15 slot buff/debuff limits are important to remember when thinking about starting stats.

And JimJam, that is an abomination of a monk magelo. Noone in their right mind would gear a monk that way. Nor is it even max HP for a monk on this server so it's not even named right mate :p

The increase in proc rate from dex is so completely minimal that it's not worth focusing points into

[putrid_plum]

you could put all your points into cha and in the end it would have such a small impact on your monk at L60 it truly doesn't matter

[Troxx]

The increase in proc rate from dex is so completely minimal that it's not worth focusing points into

Unless you’re a warrior. I’ve worked hard to maintain 170+ unbuffed dex every step along the way. The easier you can get it to 255 with the least amount of buffs the better. 170 base plus VoG (25) + focus (60) gets you there. If you can’t get it to 255, the more the better. No point in playing a tank who can’t reliably spend most of their time being the tank. It is worth making sacrifices for in other areas.

For most classes I whole heartedly agree. For monks with Tstaff, extra dexterity is always welcome but it’s doubtful you’ll find yourself as the tank in situations where it matters very much.

[cd288]

Unless you’re a warrior. I’ve worked hard to maintain 170+ unbuffed dex every step along the way. The easier you can get it to 255 with the least amount of buffs the better. 170 base plus VoG (25) + focus (60) gets you there. If you can’t get it to 255, the more the better. No point in playing a tank who can’t reliably spend most of their time being the tank. It is worth making sacrifices for in other areas.

For most classes I whole heartedly agree. For monks with Tstaff, extra dexterity is always welcome but it’s doubtful you’ll find yourself as the tank in situations where it matters very much.

I thought they extensively parsed this and proved that you get like less than 1% increased proc rate chance from stacking Dex...or something ridiculously low like that

[Jimjam]

Warriors just that starved of insta aggro that every edge they got to increase getting a proc early feels worth it lol.

[Troxx]

The proc rate at 255 dexterity is 2 procs per minute mainhand - one per minute offhand. Average. Strings of lucky procs and strings of unlucky droughts are gonna happen regardless of your absolute dexterity but rates will always settle towards the average.

Anything below 255 scales downward. To what degree that scales down (linear vs otherwise) I’m not absolutely certain and I don’t want to make up numbers but it is noticeable.

[Pint]

Chat GPT got some stuff wrong. <Afterlife> was on my server Mithaniel Marr. I watched these guys in action when they weren’t raiding. Eventually this was merged into Saryrn server and later with another but not Veeshan. Hobben was the guild leader. Thott (bard) was one of the officers and is responsible for a lot of the groundbreaking discoveries and achievements.

I forget when they finally ended up folding but I’m pretty sure it was Gates of Discord. They were premier at least through the end of PoP and might have gotten the first Quarm kill. GoD was problematic for lots of reasons.

I played on veeshan and I think afterlife ended up on the luclin server which veeshan also merged into. Could be misremembering that though.

[cd288]

The proc rate at 255 dexterity is 2 procs per minute mainhand - one per minute offhand. Average. Strings of lucky procs and strings of unlucky droughts are gonna happen regardless of your absolute dexterity but rates will always settle towards the average.

Anything below 255 scales downward. To what degree that scales down (linear vs otherwise) I’m not absolutely certain and I don’t want to make up numbers but it is noticeable.

yeah that's what I'm saying I thought they parsed out that it doesn't really scale down significantly so it's not worth wasting starting points on and should be a stat that's focused on only if you're in good shape on the more relevant ones

[Troxx]

yeah that's what I'm saying I thought they parsed out that it doesn't really scale down significantly so it's not worth wasting starting points on ...

It scales down by at least half ... so 1 proc primary hand vs 0.5 procs offhand. That's quite a lot.

and should be a stat that's focused on only if you're in good shape on the more relevant ones

For warriors I'm not sure you can convince me there is a stat that is more relevant. If you aren't proccing - you aren't holding aggro. If you aren't holding aggro - you aren't tanking.

[Ssouky]

Fair enough, it was the first I pulled off of wiki.

There is another magelo for what ssouky was apparently wearing ten years ago https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Ssouky

This is a 10/10 split for str sta starting points. This one massively overcaps stamina but fails to cap str too.

This was more of a try... Never got this stuff.
My real magelo is in my Signature. Optimized.

If you're here in the long run, +max dex to proc avatar ASAP. The rest caps.

[Jimjam]

Thanks Ssouky, it is good to hear from you :).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

All in to STA is the way to go for most people. STR and DEX is always easiest to cap, especially if you ever group/raid and get buffed.

Avatar + Focus of Spirit = 167 STR and 160 DEX just from buffs. Iksars and Human Monks start with at least 75 STR and 75 DEX, so you are already at 242 STR and 235 DEX without gear.

You're only getting 50 STA from buffs via Riotous Health, so you still need quite a bit more STA from gear. Capping out your STA via gear also means you can save a buff slot by not needing Riotous Health.

At full BiS you should be capped on all of your main stats, so it won't matter as much if you are planning on going full BiS. If you are really gunning for full BiS, CHA would be the best stat as you'll never cap it in BiS gear. You'll get better vendor prices and a better chance at getting Divine Intervention to trigger.

[Videri]

I think for the vast majority of players, one can't assume they'll get Avatar weapons. Especially post-Awakening.

One could have the shaman cast Str and Dex and then FOS for a similar effect, I suppose.

[Videri]

As for Cha, I haven't seen anyone cast DI on a monk so far. I can't imagine playing 99.99% of your game time with more charisma, getting very little value from it, just so on that 0.01% of the time you can maybe get saved from dying by a DI.

There's min-maxing and there's "min-maxing."

[DeathsSilkyMist]

As for Cha, I haven't seen anyone cast DI on a monk so far. I can't imagine playing 99.99% of your game time with more charisma, getting very little value from it, just so on that 0.01% of the time you can maybe get saved from dying by a DI.

There's min-maxing and there's "min-maxing."

I agree, CHA is only if you want to go full BiS and maximize your points, but it's not really necessary. I'd still do 20 STA so I can save a buff slot by not needing Riotous Health.

One could have the shaman cast Str and Dex and then FOS for a similar effect, I suppose.

Indeed, you'll just be using 1 extra buff slot, which isn't the end of the world. You'll still be at basically 200 STR and DEX without gear in that scenario.