Do you feel like the early days of EQ are forever lost to time?

[Wakanda]

I started playing in 1999. I was just a kid though, and made a new character every two hours. By the time I got serious about leveling all of the neat items like SSoY, SMR, FBSS etc we’re commonly seen in the auction channel.

(Bronze breastplates sold for 300p on my server, two real life friends stopped talking to each other over this after they got in a fight over one in Unrest).

I also remember when items like exe axe, and exe hood, and even FBR and oracle robes were considered some of the most coveted items in the game. People desperately wanted the oracle robe because it looked ~sO GoOD~

But I’m actually more curious about the first high level players. That part of history. The first people who went into Lower Guk or Sol B without any map and learned the entire zone (think of how huge these zones are). I really wish twitch streaming or YouTube had been a thing back then because I imagine that would have been crazy to witness.

I feel like people leveled really slow back then, but maybe with an initial rush you had a bunch of people basically raiding these zones? Or was it tiny groups? There’s also the fact that they had to add level requirements to the planes, and the fact that many low level players had planar gear, some of which was removed from the game for being deemed too powerful. I just wish we had a more clear idea of what was actually happening during these time periods. I was playing the game, but seldom making it beyond level 15.

My idea of a high level player was a level 20 because they had a last name ! Also does anyone remember freaking out over Short Sword of Morin? Or a plain 6/23 langseax?

[Duik]

Shirt answer: Yes.

Long answer: Yes.

[Jimjam]

it was more RP than G.

[Reiwa]

Shirt answer: Yes.

Long answer: Yes.

LOTR answer: You can't go back to the Shire.

[Ekco]

"Do you feel like the early days of EQ are forever lost to time?"

Everyone comes here for difference reasons but most eventually reach the same conclusion.

I came because I wasn't in the cool kid's club on Fennin because i was retarded 13-year-old at the time, standing in EC tunnel here with a PD Robe when TMO still had that shit on lockdown wearing the guild tag I idolized as a kid didn't make me feel better, i felt nothing.

[Swish]

The best way to enjoy around 2000-2001 was to server hop.

People actually used to hate seeing twinks around. That level 8 dark elf mage in the SMR may have looked nice but it was a sign to move on for some of us. That fresh server feel and race to 50 was great. I'm sure the TLP crowd still enjoy that the most.

My route was Prexus (because it was short and easy to remember vs some of the other names), Lanys, Luclin, Tholuxe, Antonius Bayle... then I jumped ship to the EU servers managed by Ubisoft (lmao) and settled on Venril Sathir before quitting during LDON to try EQ2 for no longer than the free trial :D

[Wakanda]

People actually used to hate seeing twinks around.
I’m glad someone else remembers this ;) my irl friends made me move to their server, and to try and be nice they gave me bronze armor, langseax etc. and I remember getting raged at severely by multiple players at an orc camp in the common lands (can’t remember if EC or WC).

They kept calling me a twink and how they can’t stand players like me and don’t want to play with us. I never heard that word in my entire life, so after I logged off I searched the meaning of the word and was super confused because i got the lgbt definition of the word ;)

The funniest part is that bronze armor and a langseax wouldn’t even be considered a twink in 2024 :p. I find my self getting annoyed by twinks sometimes in 2024. Like earlier tonight this one ultra twink with his level 60 Druid friend were trying to claim Pit, GY and CE in Mistmoore simultaneously, meanwhile we have a full group ;) hecka narcissistic to think you as one player deserve three camps when an entire group would be happy with just one of them !

[Jimjam]

Conflict is driven by competition. If the twink and you were competing for the same mobs, there is one explanation for antipathy right there.

Likewise, social comparison mindsets can lead to poorer mental health outcomes if you compare yourself to someone you perceive as better to you. So even if that twink is in your group, helping you clear content, you may still experience unpleasant feelings in response to them.

Another explanation could be in/outgroup psychology - their access to superior equipment may make you ‘other’ them, making it more difficult to empathise or establish feelings of connectedness.

This popular psychology shit post was sent from my toilet :)

[Duik]

Twinking is always relative. When i started bronze was (in my clueless opinion) twinky for a lowbie. In jan 2000 as a druid I was happy with a fs scimitar and some tailored leather given by an irl friend who started late 1999. I was amazed when crafted clad newbies grouped with me.
Jimjam is right, but i was happy my small mana pool (rubbish gear) was challenged less because good armor mitigates damage. Coming from AD&D with great dms helped to ease me into feeling like earning (in my opinion) is better than twinking. To each their own.
Low expectations helped to not be "jealous" of twinks i suppose.

I will never be amazed by seeing the butcher block chess board for the first time again. More's the pity.
Mega buffs helped more for the non twinks i felt.

[Ciderpress]

Yeah the magic of early EQ was largely in how unknown everything was. I remember full groups of naked barbs teaming up to take down wooly mammoths in everfrost, which would be unheard of today cause it's an insanely inefficient way to get loot or xp, but we just didn't know better and it was fun as hell. I remember everyone being horny for minotaur axes, which are horrrrrible weapons lol. It was a magic time though.

I know what you mean about a lvl 20 seeming like a high level player. It probably took me a month on my barb warrior to get 20, and I thought long and hard about what I wanted my surname to be cause it was a BIG deal.

I remember forming a pickup group in EC, and we were deciding where to go, and somebody was like "I heard there's some lizard temple a few zones away" (CT), so we ran all the way there as a group and it was packed to the gills with players. Sigh... I miss those days.

It's sad too because even somebody who's never played EQ before can't get that experience really, because they'll be playing in a world where everyone else knows every single thing about the game. There's not gonna be any wooly mammoth assassination squads for them to join. :(

When I think about it though I was really just insanely lucky to be the age I was (15) when the game launched and to have played it through planes of power. Not some TLP, it was the real shit. I kinda feel bad for people who can never experience how fun that was.

[Duik]

I remember everyone being horny for minotaur axes

Best quote ever Cider.
I hope you meant it.

[Ciderpress]

They're not even magic! Everyone on povar wanted one so bad for some reason.

[strongNpretty]

"Do you feel like the early days of EQ are forever lost to time?"

Everyone comes here for difference reasons but most eventually reach the same conclusion.

I came because I wasn't in the cool kid's club on Fennin because i was retarded 13-year-old at the time, standing in EC tunnel here with a PD Robe when TMO still had that shit on lockdown wearing the guild tag I idolized as a kid didn't make me feel better, i felt nothing.

Oh dang Fennin Ro alum eh? Me too, probably about that same age when i was playing as well. I would be in awe when coming across those TMO people man, absolutely idolized them as well.

[Jimjam]

They're not even magic! Everyone on povar wanted one so bad for some reason.

One shots decayed skeletons. Do you have any idea how many bone chips that is?!

[Ciderpress]

True didn't think of that!

Heh it's funny to just think back on how naive I was about the game. I remember thinking that really expensive statless fine steel armor you can buy from vendors was the end goal of any warrior. I was like wow I can look like the guild trainer in halas, cool! Derp.

[One Tin Soldier]

All this talk is why I'm looking forward to Monsters and Memories. I know it won't be the same as when we were all newbs back in the day but it's probably the closest we'll ever get. An EQ type game but with different zones, different items, different quests and different mobs.

It should at least be fun for few years before it becomes saturated with twinks and powerlevelers. Which I wouldn't necessarily have anything against but in a grouping game it does kind of ruin things when there is too much of that going on.

[Jimjam]

The interesting thing about that armour is the sell back ratio for it was pretty good, so really a 500pp bp is just 50pp with 450pp refundable deposit (something like that).

[Zuranthium]

They're not even magic! Everyone on povar wanted one so bad for some reason.

There weren't many options for a low level upgrade; it was either buy something better from a vendor (people didn't have the money), or get a better drop from Crushbone throne room (highly contested), or Trumpy Irontoe quest (people didn't know about it). Thus the Minotaur Axe became the most achievable weapon in circulation up through the teens.

All this talk is why I'm looking forward to Monsters and Memories. I know it won't be the same as when we were all newbs back in the day but it's probably the closest we'll ever get.

Eh, it's possible to do a lot more than what they're trying to do if the goal is to get closer to what very early EQ felt like, and make it even more engaging in some ways and more of a constant mystery.

But yeah, it won't ever be the exact same, since part of the awe-factor back then was being the first game of its genre. It literally felt like stepping into another world, into the fantasy novels we read and wanted to see brought to life. Maybe a very young kid these days would still get that same feeling with the right game, if you keep them away from other media beforehand. But even then, with the overall mechanics of an MMO now being more understood, and voice chat existing and videos and other info being put up online everywhere, the community as a whole won't ever play these games exactly like it was in the early days.

The NPC behaviors and quest/item drops need to keep changing for an MMO to prevent everything from becoming quickly "solved".

[Ciderpress]

There weren't many options for a low level upgrade; it was either buy something better from a vendor (people didn't have the money), or get a better drop from Crushbone throne room (highly contested), or Trumpy Irontoe quest (people didn't know about it). Thus the Minotaur Axe became the most achievable weapon in circulation up through the teens.

Hah yeah I do sometimes forget just how grueling the early game could be. It felt like a big deal the first time I ever saved up 50 plat. I was like oooo, what shall I splurge on??

[shovelquest]

Do you feel like the early days of EQ are forever lost to time?

Only until there is a little neuralnet switch that lets you forget selective memories.

[Morningbreath]

The real question I'd like answered is if new zones were built with only classic art assests, would they fill up or would players reject them for not being classic?

[Ekco]

The real question I'd like answered is if new zones were built with only classic art assests, would they fill up or would players reject them for not being classic?

the most popular EQ emu server prior to p99 was entirely this concept basically and we all fucking loved it.

they couldn't make new zones, but they switched the mobs/items they took zones like Kaladim and turned it into a dungeon inhabited with dwarven ghosts, shit like that and built their own version of eq from the ground up.

we had 1200+ people nightly and the healthiest raid scene I've ever seen

edit: you can never go home again.
DYYbbWdqjNA

[Reiwa]

crosspasting because it made me feel really really Classic

Nah. I recently figured out what classic era resists were. Sony left the server resist logic in the Kunark clients, which we can examine. Charm used to break over three times as often for NPCs within 10 levels of the player, because it had a resist floor of 10 and the resist rolls were 0-99 instead of 0-200. This is the equivalent of charming an NPC with 20 MR here. The September 4 2002 patch buffed casters a lot more than I previously realized. Furthermore the lull spell floors are also in the client, and resist rates of lulls were upwards of 50% at higher levels; they were bad.

TAKP exists in the period right after the new people in charge removed stuff they didn't realize the purpose of, and before they started putting back in restrictions similar to the ones they had just removed out of ignorance. For example it wasn't long after PoP launched they made charm pets take some exp on kills and prevented them from being used as tanks if the NPC had a hate list larger than 8 I think it was. TAKP is accurate for its era, but older eras should not be using TAKP's logic. All casters, even wizards, were just way too strong on Quarm.

As for magician pets, they were super OP on Quarm because they had a large ATK bonus that should not exist and have more HP than they should. I removed the ATK bonus awhile ago but the HP still needs nerfing. Another reason why they're so ridiculous is because Mage pets couldn't dual wield until the Plane of Sky opened in the timeline, so for much of classic it was necros who were the super OP ones, not mages.

[Reiwa]

the most popular EQ emu server prior to p99 was entirely this concept basically and we all fucking loved it.

they couldn't make new zones, but they switched the mobs/items they took zones like Kaladim and turned it into a dungeon inhabited with dwarven ghosts, shit like that and built their own version of eq from the ground up.

we had 1200+ people nightly and the healthiest raid scene I've ever seen

edit: you can never go home again.
DYYbbWdqjNA

rip 36 man raiding :)

[Ekco]

rip 36 man raiding :)

everything was 18man by the time i started raiding, was in Chaotic Winds and Phoenix Rising while Lleoc was still there and the competition at the time was against Exodus iirc

https://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=Oshieh
warm body status but got my fuckin lewt

[Reiwa]

everything was 18man by the time i started raiding, was in Chaotic Winds and Phoenix Rising while Lleoc was still there and the competition at the time was against Exodus iirc

https://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=Oshieh
warm body status but got my fuckin lewt

We caused the 36->18 thing by 1 grouping GotSS. I was the wizard but quit to play WoW with some CW guys shortly after the Kunark teaser event.

I've read that wizards became awful later on. Darlene said they were awful before though and was completely wrong.

A bunch of my loot is archived and your character is much better than mine.

[Ekco]

We caused the 36->18 thing by 1 grouping GotSS. I was the wizard but quit to play WoW with some CW guys shortly after the Kunark teaser event.

I've read that wizards became awful later on. Darlene said they were awful before though and was completely wrong.

A bunch of my loot is archived and your character is much better than mine.

yeah Pre Kunark is hard as balls, like i never even did GotSS but was 85%'d into Prison or something i forgot how that worked while i was in CW, the Bow i got there i never even replaced throughout all of Kunark


edit: rofl went to check on the server, they are doing a full wipe and relaunch. anyone that still wants to play with their old toons has till next month

[Zuranthium]

I only played Shards of Dalaya for a couple months back in 2008, would have liked to explore it some more. A couple of the non-classic zones I saw felt good for an insertion into Norrath:

Mountain Crags of Tarhyl (repurposed from Tipt Treacherous Crags) - could see this being an extension of Gorge of King Xorbb.

Warpstone Caverns (repurposed from Acrylia Caverns) - something like this could be the dungeon at the end of the big chasm at the bottom of East Karana, could connect to both Runneye and the Highkeep basement.

There's a lot of zones that need to be made from scratch though, to fill in the areas of the world map that never got implemented, or had lackluster designs when they did get put in (I don't like what they came up with for Jaggedpine Forest, Hills of Shade, Loping Plains).

[Ekco]

where it really shined was the high-level raid content, i forget the names but a few of them made insane mechanics for fights

even the joke shit was hilarious
5byOudBeFyM

[Ciderpress]

Dalaya was a lot of fun but they allowed boxing and it was rampant, that was my only real gripe. Oh and those insanely expensive plat sink charms that seemed to be mandatory for high end raiding.

Disclaimer: I only played from like 2006 to 2008

[Ekco]

Dalaya was a lot of fun but they allowed boxing and it was rampant, that was my only real gripe. Oh and those insanely expensive plat sink charms that seemed to be mandatory for high end raiding.

it only really mattered on certain classes like tank.

https://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=Oshieh charm is the most ghetto thing on my character even casual group people had better than me because i hated plat farming

i get people having a zero-tolerance policy on boxing but being able to load up guild bots to buff you and do ports was amazing

i'd usually box one of the guild's paladins and just duo in Keasora for to grind AAs and plat for my ranger also and when i just wanted to single box the ranger the amount of groups i could find because someone else was willing to box the tank/healer was sure better than just sitting around doing nothing

[Reiwa]

Dalaya was a lot of fun but they allowed boxing and it was rampant, that was my only real gripe. Oh and those insanely expensive plat sink charms that seemed to be mandatory for high end raiding.

Disclaimer: I only played from like 2006 to 2008

That was when the Mormon's became in charge, yes? Lotta history on Dalaya.

edit: rofl went to check on the server, they are doing a full wipe and relaunch. anyone that still wants to play with their old toons has till next month

Lol it was the right choice to not do tomes ever. Wild ride for anyone who stayed. Brutal decision but I don't mind.

https://media.tenor.com/idTF7qroUogAAAAM/hugo-weaving-lord.gif

[Ciderpress]

That was when the Mormon's became in charge, yes? Lotta history on Dalaya.

Is this a joke about me being Puritanical? I think it.. might be, but I dunno.

I do miss the personal xp mod based on how long you've spent in a zone, rather than a global zem for anyone who's in that zone. That's one of very few modifications that actually make early eq better.

[Reiwa]

Is this a joke about me being Puritanical? I think it.. might be, but I dunno.

I do miss the personal xp mod based on how long you've spent in a zone, rather than a global zem for anyone who's in that zone. That's one of very few modifications that actually make early eq better.

No Allielyen put me in jail once. Haha remember jail?

I think I went to jail 3 times.

At first you weren't allowed to link [squirrel], a custom item, and I forget the other reasons.

What's weird is they didn't jail me for manaburning their event NPC. Just continued like it never happened.

[Ciderpress]

No Allielyen put me in jail once. Haha remember jail?

I think I went to jail 3 times.

At first you weren't allowed to link [squirrel], a custom item, and I forget the other reasons.

What's weird is they didn't jail me for manaburning their event NPC. Just continued like it never happened.

Lol I do remember jail. I had a wizard or magician or something named Incantor which I felt was totally RP-friendly and they forced me to change it by putting me in jail. It was apparently too close to the word Incantation which I admit was the whole idea.

I knew Slaariel who eventually became a dev. A lot of it is lost to the fog of my shitty memory.

[Ekco]

I knew Slaariel who eventually became a dev. A lot of it is lost to the fog of my shitty memory.

i remember on voice chat we'd always accuse Slaariel of giving Exodus strats to cope about falling behind in content.

shit really died for me when we caught exploiting Forest Gloom
https://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/wiki/The_Forest_Gloom

i only did the event like 2-3 times and had no fucking idea what was going on so i got to keep my sword, but the husband and wife that were running the guild got banned and like 10 other people because they just kept fucking doing it cycling in every cleric we had to get that OP staff
https://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/wiki/Crystalis

so we could progress as a guild lol after that got cleaned up and the loot deleted i was the only shitter on the entire server with a The Caretaker's Will iirc everyone else was in Exodus or CW/PR i get CW and PR mixed up i forget which was the shitter guild and which was the good one

[bluejam]

It was apparently too close to the word Incantation which I admit was the whole idea.
Why was this an issue?

[Duik]

I had both Iksah and Gnowm on prexus server. I was just waiting but it never came.

Moved to rathe after i stopped playing.

BTW just Ignore the equipment, i just fucked around to see what difference getting defiant would make. I had relatively shitty gear to be honest. It made me cry. About the only item i actually had was the mace on the paly.

https://eq.magelo.com/profile/1411717
and
https://eq.magelo.com/profile/1411732

[magnetaress]

Yes. We are different now. So our public play spaces are too. OG eq is eternally lost to us.

[Jazzy]

You’ll not recapture that initial mystery and wonder of the EQ game world im afraid ole buddy ole pal.

WoW had it on vanilla - has anything else? Pantheon is never coming out is it. Sad times

[Reiwa]

Is anyone playing the Dalaya relaunch? Sept 27

[Reiwa]

It's launch day for Dalaya.

https://i.giphy.com/vHwGAMZfWj3mU.webp

[Jimjam]

Do monks get snare kick or whatever?

[Ekco]

installing now

[Danth]

Lot of folks here who were little kids when EQ was new. That, itself, probably accounts for some of the "magic" folks talk about. There's more wonder in life in general when you're a child or adolescent, than as an adult. Also a lot of folks who were new to online gaming, which no doubt also plays a part. There's no love like your first love, after all.

Coming from the other side, I was an adult when EQ came out, already together with my wife, and EQ wasn't the first (or even second, or third) massively-multiplayer game I tried out. It wasn't a new concept or magical to me. The graphic quality did not impress, I wasn't big on the role-playing setting, and some of the mechanics seemed pretty bad. But it was better than Ultima, the wife could play it too (MMO-flightsims were hopeless for her), so EQ grew on us over time. Even then we floated around server-to-server and eventually drifted away.

P99 worked out a lot better for us. Some of what seemed bad about EQ as relatively young adults, like the slow combat pace and frequent downtime, proved a nonissue or even an advantage in middle age. It's still not magical or wonderous, but P99 proved very well-suited to our needs, so we stuck here a very long time, much longer than we played any other online game.

The big difference between 1999, and today, was the optimism for the future of the genre. EQ was just a step on that path--the sky seemed like the limit, and we only had to await for technology to mature. Then World of Warcraft comes along like the proverbial 800 pound gorilla, smashes everything else, and spawns a legion of expensive clones that almost all failed and helped scare off investment. Now the market's moved on and the promise and optimism of old is but a memory, with what little hope remains tied mostly to a handful of low-funded independent projects. No-one would've imagined that outcome, twenty-five years ago.

[Jimjam]

That was a really interesting read, Danth (and well written too!).

[Reiwa]

installing now

Does this still get installed from Steam?

[Evia]

The big difference between 1999, and today, was the optimism for the future of the genre. EQ was just a step on that path--the sky seemed like the limit, and we only had to await for technology to mature. Then World of Warcraft comes along like the proverbial 800 pound gorilla, smashes everything else, and spawns a legion of expensive clones that almost all failed and helped scare off investment. Now the market's moved on and the promise and optimism of old is but a memory, with what little hope remains tied mostly to a handful of low-funded independent projects. No-one would've imagined that outcome, twenty-five years ago.

seriously well said! loved your post (minus the part where you say that eq isnt magical) :P

[Evia]

It's launch day for Dalaya.

https://i.giphy.com/vHwGAMZfWj3mU.webp

i went to the website and didnt see anything posted about it?

[Reiwa]

i went to the website and didnt see anything posted about it?

https://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/threads/dalaya-september-27th-launch.31582/#post-319505

Their discord is way more active go there.

[Duik]

I too was a grown adult when eq came out. What was magical about for me (us) we used to gather for AD&D sessions still. As we aged we moved, Online EQ allowed us to "D&D" from the comfort of our homes.
Working out the meta (compared to d&d) was the "magical" bit for us. Linear movement through a dungeon while less XP was for us massively enjoyable.
Rog sneaking, selecting targets to lull or monk flopping on bad pull etc. Wiz for evacs, trinity as base mnk rog.
Just like our d&d campaign.

I do get it that adults dont do as much wonderment as kids, but i dunno im pretty childish. :+P

[elevation]

My idea of a high level player was a level 20 because they had a last name ! Also does anyone remember freaking out over Short Sword of Morin? Or a plain 6/23 langseax?

Some of this is a "first time" thing. I never played classic and still haven't leveled a character above 15, so everyone with a last name seems high level to me.

[shovelquest]

I too was a grown adult when eq came out. What was magical about for me (us) we used to gather for AD&D sessions still. As we aged we moved, Online EQ allowed us to "D&D" from the comfort of our homes.

My first campaign after EQ came out i made everyone kill rats while they got out of their starting area at the slums and roll a d10 to see if they got a rat tail, and they had no idea what they were for. Then in town I made a guy that collected rat tails for money and EXP and they went back out and killed rats all night and had the most fun playing D&D that we ever had.

[Duik]

EQ emulates DnD emulates EQ!
Gold.

Our Rog player tried a battle clr first up.
It didnt go well... Should have just played Pal.

DnD inspired EQ but not directly analagous it seems.

EQ did kill our DnD sessions though. We were lazy (read grownups with jobs/businesses) though.

[Ekco]

It's launch day for Dalaya.

https://i.giphy.com/vHwGAMZfWj3mU.webp
i get to pick Elephant as the model for my beast pet soon. very excited
https://i.imgur.com/v1592oW.jpeg

edit:
https://i.imgur.com/26eDQBe.jpeg

[Duik]

Gotta admit that eliphant looks pretty dang cool.

[Reiwa]

Dalaya is impossible to install. I've never struggled like this.

[Ekco]

Dalaya is impossible to install. I've never struggled like this.

did you get past the steam console download part lol

[Reiwa]

did you get past the steam console download part lol

yes. I had to paste the console command into a text editor and then the steam console but that folder matches 100% with the guide screenshots.

I shouldn't be able to have installed Winter's Roar successfully 20 years ago and have any trouble with this new and improved version. :rolleyes:

patcher is a retarded bitch

[Reiwa]

xVEYcTyj1Do

[Reiwa]

Rari helped me thanks Rari. :)

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-15-2020/yFu8X3.gif