What lvl to Quad

[WizardEQ]

Was in OT yesterday at lvl 37 doing a quad on 3 succulents and a cockatrice that just aggroed. I had to resnare once, which was not bad so I had mana. I had cockatrice targeted and killed 2 succulents, so 1 was at 10% and cockatrice was at 13%. I managed to Harvest once to get enough mana to kill cockatrice with a nuke while succulent was dragging around LOH. Then all of a sudden, succ. gets a heal back to full life(!) and super-charges right to me, killing me real quick somehow while trying to root / run. A nice cleric Rolando even tried healing me.

So I killed 3 of the 4 at lvl 37 with last one from 13% to FH in almost an instant. Thought that was a definite BUG, but GMs didn't think so. Ended up that I got a 96% rez anyway, so ended up not too upset.

Has this happened to anyone before with mob healing to full? And when will quads really be quads without all the BS resists? I don't remember them being THIS bad, even though they were marginally bad. And WTF is up with fizzles???? I've NEVER had 4 in a row before, and it's happening more and more. And yes, I keep all skills maxed.

Xaxian

[Ulivar]

Eh i duno about the mob reginin to full and breaking your snare, situation sounds more like you had gotten an add from social agro but i duno.

about the quad kiting, really depends heavily on your mana pool, it can be done, but for me - non twinked 1st char etc - its pretty hit or miss, others will probably have better experience and more info to give ya.

either way best of luck with it.

[Messianic]

If you don't care about your qeynos faction, you can do 4 guards in NK (two on bridge to SK, two in tower next to gypsy camp) until 42 (they lblue out then). Very stable, they never resist, no social aggro because there are only 5 mobs in the area on the faction (guard fredrick inside the tower ignores the ones on the bridge if you pull them first and from the side of the bridge). They usually repop right when you've medded enough mana for another quad.

It's also right next to a port location ($$).

[WizardEQ]

Ty for responding!

Eh i duno about the mob reginin to full and breaking your snare, situation sounds more like you had gotten an add from social agro but i duno.

Weirdest thing, huh? I am 100% sure it was same mob I was kiting. I was right to the left of SF entrance, exactly at where that single sarnak hangs out. Succulent went right by it and I thought it might aggro the sarnak, but didn't. I had the cockatrice right there too going opposite direction. I cast Harvest, nuked cockatrice, then had the succulent in my face with red messages flying. That's why I'm 100% certain it was a bug.

about the quad kiting, really depends heavily on your mana pool, it can be done, but for me - non twinked 1st char etc - its pretty hit or miss, others will probably have better experience and more info to give ya.

If you saw my gear, you'd know it's my main / only char here. I am 100% non-twinked and proud of it! Honestly, it's the resists that are killing me, not mana pool, even though each resist means another cast. If I have to cast BoF more than 3 times I know I'm in trouble and zone. I was curious at when other wizards had success with little to no resists. You can have all the mana in the world, but if spells don't land you're not killing anything. A Lvl 40 druid was doing fine there, but I remember kiting well before 40 on live.

On the fizzle point, I remember (from way back) that there was a 5% fail rate on ANYTHING that was trivial. So casting lvl 4 root for a lvl 38 wiz on a blue mob should be trivial, right? Maybe not now, because there is a:

1/20 chance of resisting once
1/400 chance of resisting twice
1/8000 chance of resisting thrice, and
1/160000 change of resisting four times in a row, which has happened to me at least 3 times now. This is not something that should be happening!

[Tewaz]

Personally, I see a TON of resists in OT, much more than in any other zone.

[Messianic]

Also, you shouldn't need a big mana pool to quad. If you do, you're prolly not in A good quad location. I only started needin a big mana pool at 53 when I left spirocs and went to raptors.

Also, bloodgills from 42-51 = win.

[Ulivar]

Well I just dont have a lot of quad experience in general, first time rolling through as a class that can quad. I had that same problem that you did. If i had to cast BoF multiple times, i couldn't finish the quad. Most of the time when I did finish mobs would be wandering off and i'd have to pick them off one at a time, sit and med before i killed another etc. Around your level I was having a ton of problems with resist streaks or partial resists even.

And yes, mob choice is deffinately a big part of the equation , certain mobs have larger hp pools than others. (specs vs hgs is a great example)

another problem I had was that AE spells scaling didn't seem to occur, but that is probably a research laziness issue on my part.

The resists did get much better as I leveled however, at 51, very rare.

[Raavak]

You can quad with pillar of frost in Dreadlands around KC pretty easy. Avoid Drolvarg Ragers and Ravishings early on, and all the drachnids ever, and you will be good. Very little loot but lots of open area and all the mobs run the same speed, and lots of safe spots to med up. As a wizard I did this like lvl 51-55 in DL, where at the top end I was just doing ragers and ravishings either from KC entrance or over at the ruins getting close to FV. Experience was pretty good, and the occasional cleric coming through rezing for pp when you make a mistake.

[Messianic]

You can quad with pillar of frost in Dreadlands around KC pretty easy. Avoid Drolvarg Ragers and Ravishings early on, and all the drachnids ever, and you will be good. Very little loot but lots of open area and all the mobs run the same speed, and lots of safe spots to med up. As a wizard I did this like lvl 51-55 in DL, where at the top end I was just doing ragers and ravishings either from KC entrance or over at the ruins getting close to FV. Experience was pretty good, and the occasional cleric coming through rezing for pp when you make a mistake.

I did dreadlands for a little while, but rounding up mobs was more of a hassle than it was worth - for 51 and 52, Spirocs are my gold standard as long as Cobalt Scar isn't available.

Raptors are proving consistent, too...

[Atmas]

On Mess's suggestion in an another thread I was quadding Mammoths from my mid-twenties up until about 32 on this server. Which went pretty well.

My high elf wiz is my main and first character on the server he is 37 now with about 198 intel which is something like 1600+ mana with some + mana items. I think that's pretty good, I've been trying to hit up the money spot camps along the way (lfay bandits, mammoths for tusks ...), doing ports and even foregoing the best xp spots for more cash. I had some help with a robe and a good deal on rings but other than that it's pretty much been camps and dealing in EC.

I made another post about how I felt resists were too frequent. Most people said it gets better as you level. At this point I think resists are still too high on whites/blues but are better on yellows and reds. I think it's more about that as you level you get a larger gap for what is dark blue. By the time I was done with Mammoths they were almost never resisting. I did some quads on gnolls outside SK and since about 34 have been on and off solo killing HGs. At first I needed to get a crack to balance out their high hpts and resists. I've had cases where I litterally have had blues resist 5 out of 7 spells.

As soon as you get your AoEs and can run faster than the mobs you should be able to quad the right type of mob. Some types of mobs resist more than others. On live I could quad stuff in PoFire all day that was red to me with no problem.

I'm not sure if you are confusing fizzles and resists. Your fizzle rate has no association with your target. The most recent patch had a note that Uth adjusted fizzle rates but was very ambigous about what that meant. I notice that when killing HGs I pretty much always get at least one fizzle a mob, which seems a bit in excess but I can't recall how it was 11 years ago that well.

[Ulivar]

You can quad with pillar of frost .

yes I looked up my 51 spells and saw the dmg on pillar of frost seemed to be a massive upgrade from anything previous to it, been trying to find it since and when i do I will give quading a shot again

[Messianic]

yes I looked up my 51 spells and saw the dmg on pillar of frost seemed to be a massive upgrade from anything previous to it

It absolutely is. The difference in damage per point of mana ratio on Pillar as compared to Circle of Force (the most efficient targeted AoE up to that point) is absolutely huge. It proves to me that the original devs really underpowered every aspect of the Wizard class and they had to make up for it...

Example: Go quad HGs/Specs with pillar of frost when you get it. Absolutely night and day. Atol's shackles are also definitely worth the extra duration - also, little known fact - Atol's has a slightly larger targeted AoE radius...Mostly irrelevant, but I've had situations where it made a difference.

[Raavak]

That spell is a really common drop too. Maybe check with the Skyfire ae group, you could get one cheap or less maybe. Or wherever they are vendoring (WC or Felwithe).

And yeah, the Kunark column spells are like 2x as efficient as the classic ones. Its huge.

[WizardEQ]

I can't believe I ate the WHOLE thing!

Thanks for your input on good quadding spots. They help when waiting for group or just logging for a few.

Ok, I finally did a full quad in OT yesterday at lvl 38.

I did it on 4 succulents, had to re-do BoF only once (which is typically), got no adds / resists (thank god). Three of them dropped at once, last one with a nuke. I didn't have to cast Harvest, and I had 17% of mana left.

Picture-perfect quad with 1.5 blues of exp.

Maybe we're just mis-remembering resists rates, but I'm CERTAIN that fizzle rates are fucked up still (god I feel old).

Xaxian

[WizardEQ]

($$).

Damn, I like that!

[WizardEQ]

On Mess's suggestion in an another thread I was quadding Mammoths from my mid-twenties up until about 32 on this server. Which went pretty well.

I'm not sure if you are confusing fizzles and resists. Your fizzle rate has no association with your target. The most recent patch had a note that Uth adjusted fizzle rates but was very ambigous about what that meant. I notice that when killing HGs I pretty much always get at least one fizzle a mob, which seems a bit in excess but I can't recall how it was 11 years ago that well.

Never saw post about quadding mammoth. Maybe stupid question but no snare is needed for these guys I guess.

And I do know the difference between a fizzle and a resist; they're apples and oranges. The only class I've ever played or rolled is a wizard!

Fizz Le (toon in Conquest on Lanys)

[WizardEQ]

I notice that when killing HGs I pretty much always get at least one fizzle a mob, which seems a bit in excess but I can't recall how it was 11 years ago that well.

One fizzle per mob I can take. It's the 3-4 in a row that are ridiculous. You guys having this issue? Maybe the devs just hate me. I'll post SS next time it happens.

Xaxian

[Messianic]

I did it on 4 succulents, had to re-do BoF only once (which is typically), got no adds / resists (thank god). Three of them dropped at once, last one with a nuke. I didn't have to cast Harvest, and I had 17% of mana left.

During successful quads, i've never had to reapply BoF. The only times I have to cast it multiple times is if I get a resist on the initial cast or a bunch of resists on the AoE, which ceased after I stopped trying to take on Specs between 37-40 and went with a more consistent location. I don't think i've had meaningful AoE resists since level 46.

Never saw post about quadding mammoth. Maybe stupid question but no snare is needed for these guys I guess.

Once you get your level 24 AoE column of lightning (you can do it with the level 16 version - pillar of fire - as well, and it is safer, but takes a bit longer), you can full-speed AoE kite mammoths in EF straight to 31. It's amazing exp. You can do it to 32, but It slowed down significantly at 31. You can actually full-speed quad pretty well with the 51+ pillar line, since pillar of frost casts very quickly.

[Felwithemagi]

I remember leveling up and fizzling like mad. While watching /auc I would just cast the same cheap spell/school over and over. When I got here there was none of that and I said 'ok, kinda cool'. After the latest patch it seems more in line like I remember it on live.

[Atmas]

Never saw post about quadding mammoth. Maybe stupid question but no snare is needed for these guys I guess.

And I do know the difference between a fizzle and a resist; they're apples and oranges. The only class I've ever played or rolled is a wizard!

Fizz Le (toon in Conquest on Lanys)

If you are running faster than the mobs with SoW or Jboots snare wasn't really essential because the AoE nukes casted faster at that lvl, but you had to be on your toes. Once I got AoE snare I definitely used it because it made things so much easier and quicker. Without the snare you have to gain max spell casting distance again before casting.

[WizardEQ]

It absolutely is. The difference in damage per point of mana ratio on Pillar as compared to Circle of Force (the most efficient targeted AoE up to that point) is absolutely huge.

Has anyone calculated the dmg ratio of PoF / CoF, including cast time and repop?

[WizardEQ]

During successful quads, i've never had to reapply BoF. The only times I have to cast it multiple times is if I get a resist on the initial cast or a bunch of resists on the AoE, which ceased after I stopped trying to take on Specs between 37-40 and went with a more consistent location. I don't think i've had meaningful AoE resists since level 46.

Guess I need alot more practice. At lvl 36-37 it seemed like jail-break time, recasting BoF, resists, etc.

So at lvl 38, Specs in Oasis, or are you saying they'll be too many resists?

I hate getting that first resists, even though if you're careful you can still pull it out. Clean casts are amazing when they happen.

I don't know how others are doing it at lvl 16, without jboots and snare, always relying on a friendly druid to pop by and being careful with mobs biting them in the ass! I still don't have jboots but at least can afford paying for SoWs now. In OT, even with BoF the mobs seem to almost catch up to me. The OT mobs seem alot faster than anything but Griffs elsewhere.

Xaxian

[Atmas]

It's no contest.

Pillar of Frost:

At 51 (First lvl available)
755 damage per mob x 4 / 325 mana = 9.29 dpmana

Will actually go up to 800 damage per mob and 9.846 dpmana

Circle of Force:

At 34 (First lvl available)
202 damage per mob x 4 / 175 mana = 4.617 dpmana

Will go up to 216 damage per mob and 4.937 dpmana

Same cast, recast, and resist modifier.

[Atmas]

I quadded a lot in live. Craig Spiders, Gnolls, Wyverns, Bulthar, PoFire mobs, Otters, Beetles, HGs, etc... I would say both here and there it should be pretty infrequent reapplying of AoE snare unless resisted on the first attempt.

OT sucks imo. I tried doing some rhinos and they run at different speeds and a ton of aggressive wanderers.

[Raavak]

Never saw post about quadding mammoth. Maybe stupid question but no snare is needed for these guys I guess.

Messianic got me quading mammoths, and that's where I got addicted to the whole quad thing.

You need to snare them.

[WizardEQ]

Messianic got me quading mammoths, and that's where I got addicted to the whole quad thing.

You need to snare them.

That's why I'd love to see someone consistently quadding at lvl 16.

In OT yesterday, I was dropping my full loads near SF near the ZL groups. Perplexed, someone actually blurted out, "A wizard can quad, holy shit!"

[Atmas]

Messianic got me quading mammoths, and that's where I got addicted to the whole quad thing.

You need to snare them.

You don't have to, it just makes it a lot easier. I was quadding them well before I got snare. You do need SoW or JBoots though. As illustrated in my terrible drawing below knowing when to cast using the terrain is important too. You should try to cast just when you are at max range and there is terrain between you and the mammoth that takes longer to traverse than a flat patch of ground. Casting on the other side of a dip makes it so that it takes longer for the mammoth to actually cover the distance to you.




You ---------Mammoth
o
| ----------- (}==='
^ -----------J / \
------\____/----------

Even when you get snare you should avoid casting on a hill if your target is on the same hill.

[Messianic]

Messianic got me quading mammoths, and that's where I got addicted to the whole quad thing.

You need to snare them.

You don't have to :) It's just faster

That's why I'd love to see someone consistently quadding at lvl 16.

In OT yesterday, I was dropping my full loads near SF near the ZL groups. Perplexed, someone actually blurted out, "A wizard can quad, holy shit!"

I managed to quad stuff between 20-22 in NK (pre-kunark) - it was just really slow because I had to bind at the EC tunnel, get sow and clarity (I didn't have the cash for sow pots, this was my first char on server), port back to NK, med to full, and go find suitable mobs. I did it a few times between 16-20, but finding a sow was difficult during off-hours...

I found until 24 (partially because of self-transportation spells to get sow), it wasn't as efficient as camping single, quick-respawn, ZEM mobs like Osargen in the HK jail, although he was dangerous as all hell...I'd get 3 or 4 root resists while he's tripling me (rogue npc, frontal backstab = free swing) for 90. He had crap for HP though...

[Raavak]

"full speed kiting" as I call it, without snare, is really exciting because you can't delay an instant or you get hit. Fun, but you also use extra time building space between you and the quad. I was doing this at aviaks before mammoths. Its nice seeing the exp bar move a blue at a time...