Scout Quest is Going Away (Woot)

[loramin]

Someone finally found proof that the Scout quest is unclassic, and it's going away: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=438574 !

Thoughts?

[Ekco]

Thoughts?

idk, sounds ON topic, not off though.

[Danth]

You sure you didn't mis-read the dates Loramin? The info posted that stuff wasn't in at Velious launch but rather added during spring 2001. The timeline changes would be irrelevant to December 2001 end-state Blue and Green servers and only affect even a new server for about four months or so. You'd more or less need 2002 patch dates for it to be wholly out of era for P99.

[loramin]

Ah, I did misread. Still good news, but not as good news.

idk, sounds ON topic, not off though.

I thought it was blue and green, but it turned out it was neither. These forums need a P99 General forum.

[shovelquest]

So do I need to move my research about charm durations to a bug section of the forums to get them reduced?

https://i.imgur.com/0PapfMG.png

[Reiwa]

These forums need a P99 General forum.

Have you considered adding it to the Wiki?

[shovelquest]

Have you considered adding it to the Wiki?

https://i.imgur.com/mzBZqz8.png

[Trexller]

why would we be happy to ditch the scout quest?

God forbid anyone gets decent loot without socking hours and days and years into raids

[Jimjam]

why would we be happy to ditch the scout quest?

God forbid anyone gets decent loot without socking hours and days and years into raids

Its a fun community thing!

[Trexller]

Its a fun community thing!

yeah exactly

its always been great that 20 people show up and help 1 winner get a good item

[loramin]

why would we be happy to ditch the scout quest?

God forbid anyone gets decent loot without socking hours and days and years into raids

It's not classic EQ. Classic EQ didn't have lottery tickets: you had to go kill shit to get your loot.

If P99 was like live, and there was so little interest in the quest that guilds just did it whenever members wanted, that'd be classic. But the way it was here just felt wrong.

[Trexller]

But the way it was here just felt wrong.

no it didn't

[Jimjam]

It's not classic EQ. Classic EQ didn't have lottery tickets: you had to go kill shit to get your loot.

If P99 was like live, and there was so little interest in the quest that guilds just did it whenever members wanted, that'd be classic. But the way it was here just felt wrong.

This quest involves defeating an encounter with multiple giants, killing their powerful captain. /random is a hardcoded feature of eq.

Killing mobs and rolling for the loot is classicist thing ever.we’re all friends here.

[Reiwa]

This quest involves defeating an encounter with multiple giants, killing their powerful captain. /random is a hardcoded feature of eq.

Killing mobs and rolling for the loot is classicist thing ever.we’re all friends here.

Has the captain been soloed on here?

[Jimjam]

Has the captain been soloed on here?

Not by me :o. A addition it would make to the solo challenge tho.

[loramin]

This quest involves defeating an encounter with multiple giants, killing their powerful captain. /random is a hardcoded feature of eq.

Killing mobs and rolling for the loot is classicist thing ever.we’re all friends here.

Killing mobs with your guild would have been the "classicist thing ever'. That's how ring wars go, spirit of garzicor fights, etc.

Scout should have been like every other similar Velious quest: a guild event. It's just a fluke that its mechanics caused it to be distorted into a lottery ticket here.

[Jimjam]

Open raids classic and should happen more on p99 not less.

[Trexller]

Killing mobs with your guild would have been the "classicist thing ever'. That's how ring wars go, spirit of garzicor fights, etc.

Scout should have been like every other similar Velious quest: a guild event. It's just a fluke that its mechanics caused it to be distorted into a lottery ticket here.

it was obviously designed to be a small group event

by your logic every item that is rolled in a group is a distorted lottery ticket

we're gonna have to go back to giving every monk the tranquil staff because NBG

[loramin]

it was obviously designed to be a small group event

by your logic every item that is rolled in a group is a distorted lottery ticket

we're gonna have to go back to giving every monk the tranquil staff because NBG

If you can't see a difference between getting some friends (or strangers) together to go explore a dungeon and find treasure ... vs. going to an NPC, saying "I will accept this task lottery ticket", and then hoping a bunch of strange will hand you a prized item ... I can't help you.

Open raids classic and should happen more on p99 not less.

On Scout? No, they are 100% unclassic. There were zero open/lottery ticket scout raids on live in '99-'01 (that I'm aware of at least).

But look, I do agree with the larger sentiment: I led an open server-wide raid on Vox on Bristlebane (slightly post-Classic era, but open dragon raids did happen on other classic era servers). P99 absolutely should have more classic open Vox/Nagafen raids.

For the record, I'm in favor of other open raids too. And even with Scout, if it required you to bring your own raid force ... like it did in classic (and remember we're supposed to all be here for classic EQ) ... an open Scout fight where someone organizes the server into a raid force would be both classic and awesome!

But I'll go to my grave saying it: lottery tickets aren't classic.

[Ekco]

Open raids classic and should happen more on p99 not less.

this is the actual issue, it's not the game it's people playing it that are the problem.

[cd288]

Edit: Nvm saw Danth brought this up

Wasn't Luclin released at the end of 2001? These posts appear to indicate that it was added in April 2001 (if people discovering something is to be used as valid evidence of the earliest date it was added).

So how would that be unclassic? Seems like if anything this just means the scout quest gets added at/toward the end of the timeline.

[loramin]

this is the actual issue, it's not the game it's people playing it that are the problem.

I disagree: the people playing it are constrained by the staff, and the staff enforces the lottery ticket. Before that, the way we got the lottery ticket was that the staff enforced the (even worse) clickfest.

Of course, P99 isn't live, so we can never have true classic (where Scout just sat there un-used, for hours or even days). But, only the staff can make it closer to classic.

Imagine if you got to Scout and everyone had a minute or two window to turn in their tools. Then, Scout's normal message would change, ever so slightly: "Great! I was wondering when they would send someone out to give me these, Loramin ...." It would then be my raid force's responsibility to help ..., just like Ring Wars, Spirit of Garzicor, etc.

To be clear, I'm not condemning the staff (for not making more work for themselves): they have so much work already just so we can play a free game! I completely understand why they keep the lottery ticket system.

I just think it's a necessary evil (from not having enough staff/hours), and if it wasn't the staff would fix it ... because fundamentally lottery tickets are not classic EQ.

[red_demonman]

I mean other posters already pointed out the mechanics are all classic. If you are arguing for the behaviors of players not being classic well people do what people want, and in this case they chose to work together and not waste everyone's time.

There are a whole bunch of non-classic things that happen because of player behavior, not game mechanics, and this being a 20+ year old game. I don't think there is a lot of interest in enforcing classic player behavior, and this wouldn't be the first thing to look at if there was.

[Ekco]

I disagree

you don't high end raid i take it, didn't read the rest.

[loramin]

you don't high end raid i take it, didn't read the rest.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with the conversation AND is 100% inaccurate.

https://media.tenor.com/GsXvCZRUz00AAAAM/woody-woodpecker-baseball.gif

[Ekco]

That has nothing whatsoever to do with the conversation AND is 100% inaccurate.

https://media.tenor.com/GsXvCZRUz00AAAAM/woody-woodpecker-baseball.gif

welcome to RnF lite, enjoy your stay.

[loramin]

I mean other posters already pointed out the mechanics are all classic. If you are arguing for the behaviors of players not being classic well people do what people want, and in this case they chose to work together and not waste everyone's time.

There are a whole bunch of non-classic things that happen because of player behavior, not game mechanics, and this being a 20+ year old game. I don't think there is a lot of interest in enforcing classic player behavior, and this wouldn't be the first thing to look at if there was.

Please, countless other mechanics have been changed here to make the server more classic. Something something rooted dragons.

But I'm not talking about the mechanics, I'm just arguing that guilds ... not a random assortment of players wanting to win the lottery ... did Scout in classic. Which is a fact, just like the fact that guilds did every similar Velious quest that way: no one lottery ticketed their Coldain Ring or their Ethereal Bladed Naginata on live!

You can say whether you like or dislike what P99 does, but it's incontrovertible that there were no lottery tickets (for Scout or anything else) back in '01.

[Trexller]

I mean other posters already pointed out the mechanics are all classic. If you are arguing for the behaviors of players not being classic well people do what people want, and in this case they chose to work together and not waste everyone's time.

There are a whole bunch of non-classic things that happen because of player behavior, not game mechanics, and this being a 20+ year old game. I don't think there is a lot of interest in enforcing classic player behavior, and this wouldn't be the first thing to look at if there was.

Sorry No

There is only one right way to play EQ and it's whatever Loramin says it is

[shovelquest]

I disagree: the people playing it are constrained by the staff, and the staff enforces the lottery ticket. Before that, the way we got the lottery ticket was that the staff enforced the (even worse) clickfest.

Of course, P99 isn't live, so we can never have true classic (where Scout just sat there un-used, for hours or even days). But, only the staff can make it closer to classic.

Imagine if you got to Scout and everyone had a minute or two window to turn in their tools. Then, Scout's normal message would change, ever so slightly: "Great! I was wondering when they would send someone out to give me these, Loramin ...." It would then be my raid force's responsibility to help ..., just like Ring Wars, Spirit of Garzicor, etc.

To be clear, I'm not condemning the staff (for not making more work for themselves): they have so much work already just so we can play a free game! I completely understand why they keep the lottery ticket system.

I just think it's a necessary evil (from not having enough staff/hours), and if it wasn't the staff would fix it ... because fundamentally lottery tickets are not classic EQ.

exploiting classic game mechanic is classic everquest.

The problem is that people are hording wealth for years.

Delete all characters after time locked Luclin expansion is released and start over.

That's classic.

[loramin]

Sorry No

There is only one right way to play EQ and it's whatever Loramin says it is

I think most people would agree that there's only one way to play classic EQ ... and it's not "my way": it's however people played it back in '99-'01.

Delete all characters after time locked Luclin expansion is released and start over.

That's classic.

Agreed. Or better yet, just do what the staff said they would do: no one gets deleted, but after you've gotten to play on a classic server for a classic amount of time, you get sent to the unclassic server (ie. Blue).

[shovelquest]

Agreed. Or better yet, just do what the staff said they would do: no one gets deleted, but after you've gotten to play on a classic server for a classic amount of time, you get sent to the unclassic server (ie. Blue).

yea...

https://i.imgur.com/ZMxF1tK.png

[Ciderpress]

But I'm not talking about the mechanics, I'm just arguing that guilds ... not a random assortment of players wanting to win the lottery ... did Scout in classic.

Guess what happens when not many people show up to scout roll because it's at an odd hour? The winner asks their guild for help. Sometimes things go sideways and the "winner" doesn't get the disk and captain depops before the force can recover. Your "lotto ticket" analogy is full of caveats.

Emergent player behavior is classic, and the devs choosing to alter or not alter emergent player behavior depending on it's nature is also classic. Rooting dragons sadly made sense here because it was a complete clusterfuck letting guilds pull everything to ent or wherever. By contrast, the server community organically coming to an agreement about scout is totally fine and people prefer it that way, thus the devs don't have to and shouldn't intervene.

[WarpathEQ]

Interesting take that its lottery-like not because its a /random roll but because the community stays and helps the winner with the engage...

[loramin]

Interesting take that its lottery-like not because its a /random roll but because the community stays and helps the winner with the engage...

It's because of both.

Look, if it was purely a random chance for some loot, and either you or your group had to kill something to get that random chance, it'd be classic (and like every other normal item in the game). If the loot required both random chance and a raid force, so you had to join a guild (or otherwise motivate a raid force yourself), that too would be classic: every raid mob and every Velious raid quest works that way ... except Scout.

In classic no one got a Talisman of Benevolence, Coldain Ring, or that spiffy Naginata, just for showing up and being lucky. That is 100% unique to P99, and it doesn't fit the "DNA" of classic. On live doing stuff by yourself got one level of gear, joining a group got you better gear, and joining a guild got you still better gear: that was the game.

Again, showing up and hoping to be handed raid gear for being lucky is not classic EQ ... it's a lottery ticket.

[Jimjam]

It's because of both.

Look, if it was purely a random chance for some loot, and either you or your group had to kill something to get that random chance, it'd be classic (and like every other normal item in the game). If the loot required both random chance and a raid force, so you had to join a guild (or otherwise motivate a raid force yourself), that too would be classic: every raid mob and every Velious raid quest works that way ... except Scout.

In classic no one got a Talisman of Benevolence, Coldain Ring, or that spiffy Naginata, just for showing up and being lucky. That is 100% unique to P99, and it doesn't fit the "DNA" of classic. On live doing stuff by yourself got one level of gear, joining a group got you better gear, and joining a guild got you still better gear: that was the game.

Again, showing up and hoping to be handed raid gear for being lucky is not classic EQ ... it's a lottery ticket.

It isn’t showing up and being lucky. It is showing up and offering your help to an organised group of people with a chance of being the person who benefits from everyone’s offer to help. Scout is basically a dark guild.

[shovelquest]

Luck doesn't exist, the universe is cause and effect, and everything is determinism.

[WarpathEQ]

So the concern is that this item is not gate keeped by guilds?

Even though the encounter has been duo'd many times and could be solo'd if someone wanted to expend the same resources they do for other solo challenges?

[Ciderpress]

I think loramin is just mad at losing scout roll or something. It's completely fine and good and IS classic, for the simple reason that it's emergent behavior, and emergent behavior is classic.

Sometimes devs step in to intervene against emergent player behavior, and sometimes they allow it to remain, which is also completely classic behavior by the devs.

There will literally never be an emu server where people take action within the game the same way they did in 1999, even if the client and game mechanics are identical. That's kind of what makes mmo's interesting as a genre in the first place.

[cd288]

I mean, in the classic era plenty of people solicited non-guild help to help with certain things like certain epic fights that only need a group or two, etc. Not sure where this idea that it was guild only comes from or that it's not classic because you get to show up and have people who are not in your guild help you.

Seems to me like requiring people to join a guild and have guild members present in order to do the scout quest would just result in basically having to join the top guild in order to do the quest rather than having a chance to do it with other people, which doesn't seem classic to me nor does it seem beneficial to the community.

[Jimjam]

It is a lottery* as to whether Nathan will help on a black dire kill for an unguilded young shaman.


* it is actually one of those claw machines that let you keep playing til you win. What a legend.

[shovelquest]

When I die in an FPS I say, "damn bad RNG".... if that guy that was around the corner wasn't playing that night I'd be alive. Bad luck!

An FPS is bad luck....

That's how schizo gaming makes you.

Luck is not real.

[Jimjam]

Luck is not real.

Nothing is real, my friend.

[shovelquest]

Me dying of the same thing literally everything else does:

"Im telling you it's all fake!"

[loramin]

I think loramin is just mad at losing scout roll or something.

For the record, I don't think I've ever even participated in a Scout roll ... but that's not a principled stance: I just don't want Scout loot ;) I did go to the Angy Goblin roll though, many times (hell, I helped start it), and it's also a sort of "lottery ticket" (albeit one that doesn't require a raid force). I like loot as much as the next person.

My opposition to the Scout meta is not personal, it's just me remembering that the point of this place is to recreate EQ from '99-'01 ... and recognizing that there were no lottery tickets in '99-'01 (unless you count EC Tunnel gambling).

It isn’t showing up and being lucky. It is showing up and offering your help to an organised group of people with a chance of being the person who benefits from everyone’s offer to help. Scout is basically a dark guild.

I disagree: it's not a perfectly classic "dark guild", because guilds had a very clear definition in classic ... and it wasn't "everyone on the server who wants to do quest ____".

Classic EQ was about friendship and camaraderie with your team, something you Jimjam seem to appreciate more than most posters. Lottery tickets are one more reason for everyone to stay in their anti-social bubble and avoid pursuing that camaraderie with a (real) guild.

[Trexller]

Can't roll for loot anymore, it's not classic

Classic is hereafter determined by Loramin's whims

[Ekco]

Classic is hereafter determined by Loramin's whims

The king is dead, long live the king!

[Jimjam]

Can't roll for loot anymore, it's not classic

Classic is hereafter determined by Loramin's whims

It seems clear: Pug no byo for fungi but byo no pug for scout.

Okay, i don’t wanna rib Loramin too much I reckon he is an aight geezar. I also reckon the real reason we can pug Scout on p99 is how efficient the players are at predicting her spawns. She can be anticipated instead of discovered.

[shovelquest]

Wait is the player base coming to an agreement and creating a society and economic system to manage it, being anti-social??

[Reiwa]

For the record, I don't think I've ever even participated in a Scout roll ... but that's not a principled stance: I just don't want Scout loot ;) I did go to the Angy Goblin roll though, many times (hell, I helped start it), and it's also a sort of "lottery ticket" (albeit one that doesn't require a raid force). I like loot as much as the next person.

My opposition to the Scout meta is not personal, it's just me remembering that the point of this place is to recreate EQ from '99-'01 ... and recognizing that there were no lottery tickets in '99-'01 (unless you count EC Tunnel gambling).



I disagree: it's not a perfectly classic "dark guild", because guilds had a very clear definition in classic ... and it wasn't "everyone on the server who wants to do quest ____".

Classic EQ was about friendship and camaraderie with your team, something you Jimjam seem to appreciate more than most posters. Lottery tickets are one more reason for everyone to stay in their anti-social bubble and avoid pursuing that camaraderie with a (real) guild.

No guilds no masters. Power to the people!

You can't very well go back to scout to being "discoverable". People know too much.

Just simulate the kill crew you would have summoned from your guild.

[loramin]

Wait is the player base coming to an agreement and creating a society and economic system to manage it, being anti-social??

It discourages classically joining a guild, but obviously it's "social" activity in some sense.

It seems clear: Pug no byo for fungi but byo no pug for scout.

Okay, i don’t wanna rib Loramin too much I reckon he is an aight geezar.

I get why the usual trolls respond, but Jimjam I really thought you appreciated classic EQ, and in particular the way it channeled individuals (who were mostly anti-social nerds IRL) into joining large ongoing social groups together (ie. guilds). A bunch of people you interact with briefly to claim your ticket (or to help someone else claim their's) isn't that.

[Ciderpress]

It's honestly one of the few legitimately pro-social things on the server; people from guilds who normally hate eachother cooperate and you kinda get to know the people who show up regularly until they get their pixel, so it's always a rotating social thing kinda. It's cool and good.

[loramin]

It's honestly one of the few legitimately pro-social things on the server; people from guilds who normally hate eachother cooperate and you kinda get to know the people who show up regularly until they get their pixel, so it's always a rotating social thing kinda. It's cool and good.

Classic != "cool and good". And again, it does have a hidden cost: it discourages more meaningful social interaction (ie. guilds).

Look, we've lost so much from classic here: half the players just buy their epics, but on live everyone who wanted an epic had to make friends (ie. join guilds). The current Scout meta just further compounds that.

[Ciderpress]

Classic != "cool and good". And again, it does have a hidden cost: it discourages more meaningful social interaction (ie. guilds).

Look, we've lost so much from classic here: half the players just buy their epics, but on live everyone who wanted an epic had to make friends (ie. join guilds). The current Scout meta just further compounds that.

I can agree on the epics thing, that does legit make me sad. I disagree scout is anything like that though, I just think it's a cool organic thing.

[loramin]

I think it's a cool organic thing.

For the record, I think it's a cool organic thing too! Again, I helped found the Shady/Angry system, and it was obviously inspired by Scout. Given the staff-set meta I think it's the best way to handle Scout. Period.

My argument isn't that it's bad or uncool (although I'm a big fan of classic EQ, so in some sense anything unclassic is "uncool" to me). My argument is that the current meta encourages something unclassic, and since the goal of this place is classic, the meta should be changed to be as close as possible to '99-'01. That means bringing your own raid force to ring wars, to Garzicor fights ... and to Scout.

[shovelquest]

Hmm, on my classic server, there was a physical line of people in Najina, from outside drelzna room. And as each person that joined the group got their Jboots, the next person in line was added to the group, the line was like, a real line of people standing, sitting, and waiting.

On top of that it was Rallos Zek, a pvp server!

So it seems specifically classic to me that these exist in certain spots.

[Trexller]

we're gonna have to disable all MQs now too, MQs discourage joining guilds

you're not a member of the guild who killed the mob

so you can't have any loot unless you quit your job, neglect your family, and poopsock mobs 20 hours a day

don't even think about getting a chance to roll on a tranquil staff, the monk needs it more then you, what do you think this is, a lottery system?

[shovelquest]

I will say, that they did stop Jboots from dropping, and moved it to the stupid ass quest that they did specifcally because players (like loramin lol) complained about it taking 24 hours to wait in the line (Thats how long it took me, 25 exactly!) to get a pair of boots.

So... loramin ruining scout on p99 is, extremely classic too.

:)

[loramin]

Hmm, on my classic server, there was a physical line of people in Najina, from outside drelzna room. And as each person that joined the group got their Jboots, the next person in line was added to the group, the line was like, a real line of people standing, sitting, and waiting.

On top of that it was Rallos Zek, a pvp server!

So it seems specifically classic to me that these exist in certain spots.

Apples and oranges. People wait their turn to kill a mob (that drops solo- or group-level loot) all the time, both here and on live; it's obviously classic.

What isn't classic is that back in '01 unguilded strangers didn't have raid loot handed to them for rolling high! If you wanted raid loot, whether it was an epic, planar armor, the nifty dwarf ring, or anything else, you joined a guild. You helped them, and they helped you get that loot you wanted.

It is an undisputed fact that this is how players did Scout in '01.

[shovelquest]

Bobs aren't anymore raid loot than Jboots were. They're identical fruits.

Both would be obtained by "groups of players getting together" (Guilds didn't even exist back then!)

Rather than a player made agreement of any 1 solo person appearing and getting the loot handed to them.

(also PLZ make p99 gold have jboots from Drelzna!)

[loramin]

Bobs aren't anymore raid loot than Jboots were. They're identical fruits.

Both would be obtained by "groups of players getting together" (Guilds didn't even exist back then!

Guilds didn't exist in Velious? :confused:

But back to the "identical fruits", it's very simple: the scout loot ... especially back on live (where players had poorer average gear) ... required a raid force. JBoots did not.

(also PLZ make p99 gold have jboots from Drelzna!)

It would be shocking if they didn't, since that's the classic way ... and since the staff already went through the trouble of coding it for Green (I actually got my most recent pair of JBoots from her).

[shovelquest]

It would be shocking if they didn't, since that's the classic way, and since the staff already went through the trouble of coding it for Green (I actually got my most recent pair of JBoots from her).

Thats cool I didnt remember that on green. And no, not 'no guilds during vel', I was talking about my example, during drelzna. Suggesting groups, at the time were essentially the same thing as what you consider guilds to be in this scout argument.

Your argument is:

A guild requires players to group together to get an item. But scout rule doesn't make guilding worth it.

I compare it to:

In Drelzna's case a group is required to get the item, but the players organizing doesn't make grouping worth it.

My Judgment:

In classic they changed drelzna to stop this behavior because of players complaining about it.

So it would make sense for the server to institute new rules that stopped this behavior on p99 because of a player complaining about it.

It would, simulate a classic rules decision in real time with the modern server that would therefore evoke an overall classic feeling for us all to experinece once again.

So there you go, Ive made my decision, go ahead and make it happen loramin!

[loramin]

Ok, I follow your logic now (that no guilds thing threw me) ... but I still think your examples are apples and oranges, or at least apples and pears. Waiting in line for the most popular mob ... that a player could solo ... is not the same thing as waiting in line to get loot that requires a raid force all but handed to you.

Want to convince me otherwise? Go solo the Scout encounter ;)

[loramin]

In classic they changed drelzna to stop this behavior because of players complaining about it.

So it would make sense for the server to institute new rules that stopped this behavior on p99 because of a player complaining about it.

P.S. If it makes you feel any better, I have a terrible track record: I've complained about lots of things here, and the staff have ignored at least 95% of what I bitch about (/cough charming /cough).

[shovelquest]

Ok, I follow your logic now (that no guilds thing threw me) ... but I still think your examples are apples and oranges, or at least apples and pears. Waiting in line for the most popular mob ... that a player could solo ... is not the same thing as waiting in line to get loot that requires a raid force all but handed to you.

Want to convince me otherwise? Go solo the Scout encounter ;)

Being able to solo that encounter first few months after launch on live would be as difficult as soloing scout 3 years into velious on p99.

[shovelquest]

P.S. If it makes you feel any better, I have a terrible track record: I've complained about lots of things here, and the staff have ignored at least 95% of what I bitch about (/cough charming /cough).

plz use my data to win the charm fight!

I always vote for disruption! :D

[Jimjam]

It discourages classically joining a guild, but obviously it's "social" activity in some sense.



I get why the usual trolls respond, but Jimjam I really thought you appreciated classic EQ, and in particular the way it channeled individuals (who were mostly anti-social nerds IRL) into joining large ongoing social groups together (ie. guilds). A bunch of people you interact with briefly to claim your ticket (or to help someone else claim their's) isn't that.

Scout gets attended by dozens of players. It takes dozens of attendances (doubled for two wrists). I found the interactions to be more than just brief. It was such a good way to hang out with people outside of xp or guild context. It really helps brake barriers between guilds by having it open and people working together. I also love the hype preceding scout, letting your friends and guildies know it is happening soon and travelling together there. After captain is down it is a good spot to arrange a new impromptu adventure too - maybe kill some 6 necks with new found friends or whatever.

To me scout has had an amazing community almost festival vibe. A bit like the first fabled event or hanging out at the ldon camps. It’s an amazing instance of people working together for mutual benefit, breaks down othering and out grouping and is such a good jumping board for new friendships and adventure. Plus it really rocks when you know someone has been rolling for ages and they finally get to hand in their tools!

Its people hanging out, helping out, building a community and that feels super classix to me and I wouldn’t want to lose that feeling.

[shovelquest]

wait what's different between scout and that sewer thing!

[Trexller]

To me scout has had an amazing community almost festival vibe. A bit like the first fabled event or hanging out at the ldon camps. It’s an amazing instance of people working together for mutual benefit, breaks down othering and out grouping and is such a good jumping board for new friendships and adventure. Plus it really rocks when you know someone has been rolling for ages and they finally get to hand in their tools!

https://media.tenor.com/pwwxazWzPG8AAAAj/100-animated-100.gif

wait what's different between scout and that sewer thing!

Nothing at all, cabilis sewer club is now illegal.

same as the HS drusilla club, totally illegal.

8th ring roll? straight to jail!

https://y.yarn.co/5b4d37f1-469f-4670-b673-04278fe857a8_text.gif

[WarpathEQ]

Intersting take that classic is siphoning everyone into silos via guild tags and incentivizing people to not interact outside of their guild. That seems to have worked really well on P99 to create a toxic culture.

Maybe that was your classic experience but it certainly wasn't everyones. I completed the entire bard epic minus phinny back on classic live without ever guild tagging and guess what, for the hardest part, I showed up and rolled over and over with people all accross the server guild tagged or not :D Open server encounters were commonplace back then in my experience.

Classic was always about collaborating with other players to get things done, not by joining a guild and following a system controlled by a few people, generally for their own gain. Really in my view point there was only one guild that mattered on each server, one guild that was unlocking the newest hardest content that tended to work for themselves and keep away from others. Otherwise it was very much open world collaboration. A guild was basically just a way to get around the limit of how many people you could /friend.

But by all means keep advocating for more silos, more us vs. them, more toxic behavior. Clearly we haven't cultivated enough of that viewpoint on P99.

[loramin]

8th ring roll? straight to jail!

You have failed at reading comprehension!

My entire argument in this thread is that Scout should require you to bring your own force ... like the ring war (or any other Velious raid quests: Garzicor, HoT armor, etc.) ... which is sort of the opposite of wanting to get rid of it.

I completed the entire bard epic minus phinny back on classic live without ever guild tagging and guess what, for the hardest part, I showed up and rolled over and over with people all accross the server guild tagged or not :D Open server encounters were commonplace back then in my experience.

Open raids did happen in the classic era, and I've presented classic evidence of as much in many arguments here. Hell, while it was in Luclin, not classic, I even led an open Vox raid on Bristlebane, and It was one of my fondest live memories.

https://i.imgur.com/wRz1YyK.png

But ... open raids only were on old content. When you open-raided Vox the server was in Velious and she was two years old: you weren't getting the best raid-level loot from the latest expansion.

I repeat: no one was getting Velious raid-level loot without a guild in classic.

[WarpathEQ]

But ... open raids only were on old content. When you open-raided Vox the server was in Velious and she was two years old: you weren't getting the best raid-level loot from the latest expansion.

I repeat: no one was getting Velious raid-level loot without a guild in classic.

Remind me...how old is velious in our current server progression?

[cd288]

Lol this is such a cliche nit picky Loramin argument it's cracking me up. No one gives a shit. Everyone enjoys coming together as a community to kill things during the scout roll...but yeah we should force everyone to join Riot to get Scout lolololol

[realsubtle]

Just found proof that Everquest did not actually exist in Classic. Have petitioned the p99 staff to remove all content immediately or they will face full censure and sanction from the League of Pedantic Timewasters.

[Ekco]

the amount of people just using EQ as a chatroom was what made the world feel alive in classic also

Gfay had about 50+ people who didn't give a single fuck about leveling when i was playing on Fennin ro in 99

[loramin]

Remind me...how old is velious in our current server progression?

Everything I'm saying is about preserving classic, which is only relevant a server like Green (for its first three years). The bugfix (that's the entire point of this thread) will never even impact current servers: it's exclusively about Green 2.0.

On "Classic+" servers like Blue I see nothing wrong with Scout.

[shovelquest]

the amount of people just using EQ as a chatroom was what made the world feel alive in classic also

Gfay had about 50+ people who didn't give a single fuck about leveling when i was playing on Fennin ro in 99

FQ is EQ if it was a mud and you only hung out in Gfay.

[Ekco]

i only hung out in gfay for a majority of my time, patchworker armor was peak eq and people cybering in the hotel in felwithe.

i used to just chill in Lfaydark with the pixies and Equestrielle everything past that was straight up bullshit fr fr

[shovelquest]

If i could go back in time, I would spend my entire life trying to run a brothal out of that felwith hotel, like with players all larping, paying someone plat at that front enterence, to go upstairs to cyber.

That would be an awesome little funfact to come up when people talk about classic eq.

"remembrer there was that actual cyber brothal place in felwith on the tunare server!?"

"he was always out front saying, "CYBER, COME GET YA CYBER's HERE! Just 10 plat a room!"

[Jimjam]

Everything I'm saying is about preserving classic, which is only relevant a server like Green (for its first three years). The bugfix (that's the entire point of this thread) will never even impact current servers: it's exclusively about Green 2.0.

On "Classic+" servers like Blue I see nothing wrong with Scout.

I doubt green 2 will immediately have carebearshare for scout especially as she shall be such a late addition. She is barely in era. Maybe sometime after the top dogs of the big guild(s) get their scout bits done things will open up, definitely not before the equivalent time point of SoL release.

Seems like a non issue, maybe I’m wrong.

[shovelquest]

green 2

https://i.imgur.com/ES3e0M6.png

[loramin]

I doubt green 2 will immediately have carebearshare for scout especially as she shall be such a late addition. She is barely in era. Maybe sometime after the top dogs of the big guild(s) get their scout bits done things will open up, definitely not before the equivalent time point of SoL release.

Hopefully!

[shovelquest]

Lmao loramin you did my meme.

[shovelquest]

If you ever see someone named Lmaoramin on green 2.

It me :)

[WarpathEQ]

I doubt green 2 will immediately have carebearshare for scout especially as she shall be such a late addition. She is barely in era. Maybe sometime after the top dogs of the big guild(s) get their scout bits done things will open up, definitely not before the equivalent time point of SoL release.

Seems like a non issue, maybe I’m wrong.

By the time scout hits timeline on next server peeps will already have better gear on their end game raid toons.

[Ciderpress]

By the time scout hits timeline on next server peeps will already have better gear on their end game raid toons.

True but that's already the case, there are still 20ish people at scout rolls during primetime, and it's almost all people gearing their alts.

Depends on class too, bracers are great but it's wrist and you can have two, talisman is great but is range. I honestly forget robe is even a thing although it's a decent enc robe

[Jimjam]

By the time scout hits timeline on next server peeps will already have better gear on their end game raid toons.

That outcome is also problem=no problem.

[shovelquest]

WAIT A MINUET

I just realized, that the biggest impact on "grouping, guilding, and otherwise classic behavior"

IS THE WIKI!

OHH BUSTED. Auto ban anyone who pulls up that site while logged into the green client on the same VPN IMO.

https://i.imgur.com/tTok94q.gif

[Trexller]

WAIT A MINUET

I just realized, that the biggest impact on "grouping, guilding, and otherwise classic behavior"

IS THE WIKI!

OHH BUSTED. Auto ban anyone who pulls up that site while logged into the green client on the same VPN IMO.

true

why the hell would i engage with other players for information when i can tab out and check the wiki

[Trexller]

didn't have discord in 2000 either

discord has to go

[Jimjam]

tab out not classic, alt+shift+R got some time before it is implemented. Once you're into the everquest program it is inescapable without shutting it down entirely!

[shovelquest]

Quantum locked super position while connected to server ONLY!