Rogue pickpocketing

[Abacab]

Pickpocketing magic tagged items was a function well into classic, should this be implemented?

[President]

Didn't you start one of these threads already?

[Abacab]

Didn't you start one of these threads already?

Nah, it was about rogue backstab and poisons

[President]

Nah, it was about rogue backstab and poisons

Odd I can't find anything in search but I swear I was reading within the last week or two a thread that contained bugs with their being able to pickpocket magic items that weren't no drop.

[Finawin]

Class penalties are classic and in (equally as retarded as pickpocketing everything)

I vote yes for parity.

The only things getting pickpocketed will be uncamped mobs, and it will be against the rules for rogues outside of the group camping the mob to PP. (this can be tracked and enforced)

Cherry picking "classic" features I am sure annoys a lot of people but it's not up to us anyways. So I don't really care one way or the other.

[Aeolwind]

Voted no simply because I know the level of douche baggery that will ensue. While I feel it should have probably been in for a short time, at this stage, no way.

[Finawin]

That's the problem. We have way too many assholes who would level rogues just to PP group's mobs, rather than PP uncamped mobs.

It would be cool if people weren't massive doucherags on this server.

[KilyenaMage]

Another thread where the "strictly classic people" voted NO to a classic mechanic.

[faenyar]

very bad idea. Unrestrained douchebaggery would be the result.

[Abacab]

very bad idea. Unrestrained douchebaggery would be the result.

Check it back, we're goin' old school!

[Abacab]

Another thread where the "strictly classic people" voted NO to a classic mechanic.

From my experience the "strictly classic people" want classic features that benefit them. I can't say much on that cause I play a rogue but think of this way.

Mage_01 wants stronger pets cause that was classic

Rogue_01 wants to be able to pickpocket "magic" tag

These would conflict each other cause the mage wanted the pet to be able to solo spawns (I.E farm loot) and giving a rogue the ability to lift items would just be a punch in the throat to that mage.

It's the same situation with the pre-nerf gnollslayer most of the people QQing about it being OP were cries from druids/mages/enchanters because the pet in itself and the ratio gave melees a bit more edge in taking camps (Hell I was soloing giants at level 12 with it)

So if I were to tally the "No" vote a majority of those would come from caster classes that solo spawns simply cause this contradicts their ability to sell loot.

So why would the majority of the server want to give rogues this ability? They don't because it's going to cause a massive headache and hit to their pocket books if it IS implemented...

Classic or not people don't like changes which interfere with their own ability to progress, certainly rogues mass PPing mobs would certainly stop their 24/7 camps and drag their goods in the economy down a couple K cause the ease and frequency of getting said "luxury" items.

[President]

From my experience the "strictly classic people" want classic features that benefit them. I can't say much on that cause I play a rogue but think of this way.

Mage_01 wants stronger pets cause that was classic

Rogue_01 wants to be able to pickpocket "magic" tag

These would conflict each other cause the mage wanted the pet to be able to solo spawns (I.E farm loot) and giving a rogue the ability to lift items would just be a punch in the throat to that mage.

It's the same situation with the pre-nerf gnollslayer most of the people QQing about it being OP were cries from druids/mages/enchanters because the pet in itself and the ratio gave melees a bit more edge in taking camps (Hell I was soloing giants at level 12 with it)

So if I were to tally the "No" vote a majority of those would come from caster classes that solo spawns simply cause this contradicts their ability to sell loot.

So why would the majority of the server want to give rogues this ability? They don't because it's going to cause a massive headache and hit to their pocket books if it IS implemented...

Classic or not people don't like changes which interfere with their own ability to progress, certainly rogues mass PPing mobs would certainly stop their 24/7 camps and drag their goods in the economy down a couple K cause the ease and frequency of getting said "luxury" items.

Terrible logic. I am a warrior and voted no and have never camped loot in my life except for jboots. Most people are probably voting no because they don't want to see even more whining than already goes on on this board. How many people are gonna post in bugs forum that so and so's loot table is messed up because he didn't get an item. Or the thousand other ways someone might bitch, complain, or mistaken a problem or issue because of this and bring it to the forums.

This server has been up for what, 6 months now? and you are the FIRST Rogue to have brought this up?

I agree with Aeoloeoloelwind, maybe it should have been in at the beginning, but its not getting added at this stage.

[Abacab]

Voted no simply because I know the level of douche baggery that will ensue. While I feel it should have probably been in for a short time, at this stage, no way.

Ever think it might solve douche baggery? Camp stealing occurs SO much already and the ability to blackmail groups with rogues would deter this from happening.

Why try to out DPS and steal someones mob when they got a rogue right there that can jack the loot table before you can even drop your first spell? It's like police officers that get half off rent to park their squad car in the parking lot, it's a determent, so the benefits of grouping with a rogue is they can lock down a loot table with ease and counter-grief other players.

[President]

Ever think it might solve douche baggery? Camp stealing occurs SO much already and the ability to blackmail groups with rogues would deter this from happening.

Why try to out DPS and steal someones mob when they got a rogue right there that can jack the loot table before you can even drop your first spell? It's like police officers that get half off rent to park their squad car in the parking lot, it's a determent, so the benefits of grouping with a rogue is they can lock down a loot table with ease and counter-grief other players.


http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/6515/original/jesus-facepalm-facepalm-jesus-epic-demotivational-poster-1218659828.jpg

[Abacab]

Terrible logic. I am a warrior and voted no and have never camped loot in my life except for jboots. Most people are probably voting no because they don't want to see even more whining than already goes on on this board. How many people are gonna post in bugs forum that so and so's loot table is messed up because he didn't get an item. Or the thousand other ways someone might bitch, complain, or mistaken a problem or issue because of this and bring it to the forums.

This server has been up for what, 6 months now? and you are the FIRST Rogue to have brought this up?

I agree with Aeoloeoloelwind, maybe it should have been in at the beginning, but its not getting added at this stage.

It's been brought up before not by me, but rogues make up like what 2% of the population on the server? You can literally count the number of rogues above crushbone range on your hands overall we're a highly under represented class. So of course I'll bring it up now that there is SOME weight in the game.

You talk about people whining, don't they whine enough already? Most classic griefing functions have been removed for your safety. I can't sneak into raid rooms and drop gnoll whips on a encounter to destroy a tanks agro table and wiping the clerics/DPS even in later xpacs I wont even be able to drop Glowing Black Swords on AoW or Vindicator to self remove slows and debuffs.

Half the fun of a rogue in general comes from your ability to be possibly the BEST griefer on the server (for roleplaying purposes of course!) and to slap my classes wrist and remove OBVIOUS classic functions from my class just because everyone is going to cry and cry is quite silly.

I understand the need for a "play nice" policy but I've always been in favor of a laissez-faire approach to server conflict and trust that when things boil over into chaos it'll soon rectify itself. I personally think GM's should spend less time nerfing, solving your minor squabbles and let you deal with it on your own accord

[Plaxiglass]

I am shaman, not related to rogues and I think they should be able to pick-pocket magic items, simply to make things more fun and make this server different from other MMORPG. Rogues that pickpocket will eventually get caught and build reputations around the server, making it more difficult for them to find a group, I guess im a classic extremist.

[Abacab]

I am shaman, not related to rogues and I think they should be able to pick-pocket magic items, simply to make things more fun and make this server different from other MMORPG. Rogues that pickpocket will eventually get caught and build reputations around the server, making it more difficult for them to find a group.

When I PP guards in Oggok when the zone is empty I get several tells later in the day going "LOL" to "Fuck you Abacab!"

[President]

So.. you basically just want to be able to do it so you can be a bigger griefer is what you are saying.

Really, I'm not sure how any of the arguments you have made so far will bring anyone to vote your direction.

[Abacab]

So.. you basically just want to be able to do it so you can be a bigger griefer is what you are saying.

Really, I'm not sure how any of the arguments you have made so far will bring anyone to vote your direction.

Not everyone who tries to win a vote uses the best means to get that

http://abrahamlincolnfunfacts.com/images/Abraham_Lincoln.jpg

Though I'm just stating both sides, to grief is to EQ that's a fact that's been there since Xerxes was rolling around. Aside from the negative connotations you feel about losing out on 12k items, it's still a classic function.

The only thing that makes this difficult for you guys to accept is unlike other classic functions (Xp penalties) changing the rule set on this would harm everyone else besides rogues as it's something that the class innately should do! Rangers track, Paladins LoH, Shadowknights HT, Monks FD and Rogues pickpocket... So I dont understand why keeping it nerfed is essential other than reducing the amount of /qq?

[President]

Not everyone who tries to win a vote uses the best means to get that

Though I'm just stating both sides, to grief is to EQ that's a fact that's been there since Xerxes was rolling around. Aside from the negative connotations you feel about losing out on 12k items, it's still a classic function.

If you're an asshole.

The only thing that makes this difficult for you guys to accept is unlike other classic functions (Xp penalties) changing the rule set on this would harm everyone else besides rogues as it's something that the class innately should do! Rangers track, Paladins LoH, Shadowknights HT, Monks FD and Rogues pickpocket... So I dont understand why keeping it nerfed is essential other than reducing the amount of /qq?

How about, like the current Dev's, you quit playing on the server, and become an unpaid Petition answerer/Dev, and then we can see what your point of view is on additional /qq.

After a little searching I found this:

"2.14. Can I pickpocket quest items?

Yes, if the item is not being wielded or worn and it's not magic."

So obviously this was taken out of the game as some point... seeing If can track down when. Also would take out the majority of the items you would want to pickpocket as I believe something like the FBSS would be considered "worn" since the frog gets haste from it.

[President]

Well forget it i'm not going to look for it it seems pretty clear that the dev's have no intention of changing this.

[Tenpin]

Bards get pickpocket?

[Ghesta]

There's no option for "Whatever, if someone's a douche, I'll just let the community know and he's gonna be out on his ass"

[Abacab]

"2.14. Can I pickpocket quest items?

Yes, if the item is not being wielded or worn and it's not magic."

So obviously this was taken out of the game as some point... seeing If can track down when. Also would take out the majority of the items you would want to pickpocket as I believe something like the FBSS would be considered "worn" since the frog gets haste from it.

Not true, I can pickpocket small round shields from halfling and neriak guards and those would constitute as wielded and worn would they not?

[Abacab]

How about, like the current Dev's, you quit playing on the server, and become an unpaid Petition answerer/Dev, and then we can see what your point of view is on additional /qq.


You're asking how Abacab would handle the sheer amount of QQ? I just lock people behind locked doors, qeynos jail, or Z coordination boxes, drop them in the middle of nowhere, PvP flag the parties and let them duke it out.

Generally just terrorize people to the point that they're afraid to /petition so it forces them to be civil and solve it themselves. Kind of hard to /qq when the result is being dropped right on top of the spiroc lord when sky isn't even accessible yet.

In other words I'd be a terrible GM/guide/Dev but I'd be fun!

[President]

You're asking how Abacab would handle the sheer amount of QQ? I just lock people behind locked doors, qeynos jail, or Z coordination boxes, drop them in the middle of nowhere, PvP flag the parties and let them duke it out.

Generally just terrorize people to the point that they're afraid to /petition so it forces them to be civil and solve it themselves. Kind of hard to /qq when the result is being dropped right on top of the spiroc lord when sky isn't even accessible yet.

In other words I'd be a terrible GM/guide/Dev but I'd be fun!

Exactly, you couldn't handle it.


Well, if you can pickpocket worn items then maybe thats a bug that needs to get fixed, because I got that off a Rogue reference for EverQuest.

[Abacab]

Exactly, you couldn't handle it.

I can handle it cause my GM method is no different than the political terror tactics of:

http://asianbadger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/2stalin.GIF

[PearlJammzz]

When was this changed in live? I didn't play a rogue till later, and I know for sure they couldn't pickpocket magic items. If it was something that was in up and through Luclin then of course it should be in if it can be. If it was something that was only in pre-Kunark though it's really pointless to add at this point. There are much bigger bugs/issues to squash, and Kunark is right around the corner. My main is a rogue, and this would be cool as shit for sure, but if it's not classic then I don't want it.

Everything should be as it was to the best of the dev's abilities. Nothing is going to be perfect. Shit will be almost perma-camped by big guilds, and you will get KS'd. Welcome to EQ just as it was in classic!

I just want to add a little 'relax guys!'. Remember this is a free server of a game that is 10yrs old. It may not be perfect, but for free it is pretty much perfect IMO.

[President]

I can handle it cause my GM method is no different than the political terror tactics of:



Well I didn't really want it to come to this but seriously dude, you're retarded.

[faenyar]

So this completely boils down to:

"Please allow me to do something to grief everyone else on the server so I can be a butthead griefer and piss everyone off and make them QQ. I know it's stupid and would cause lots of grief and I don't care because it's <<< CLASSIC >>>"

Not a very convincing argument.

When I used to DM tabletop RPGs invariably we'd have one guy who always played a thief just to steal shit from everyone else or he'd play a kender or some other obnoxious class and be completely focused on making everyone else miserable, angry and frustrated. Invariably he'd get caught, his character would get killed (quite gruesomely usually) and he'd whine about it the rest of the night about how unfair it was, he was just ROLEPLAYING after all and finally I'd have to throw him out.

Were you one of those guys? Be honest...

[Abacab]

So this completely boils down to:

"Please allow me to do something to grief everyone else on the server so I can be a butthead griefer and piss everyone off and make them QQ. I know it's stupid and would cause lots of grief and I don't care because it's <<< CLASSIC >>>"

Not a very convincing argument.

When I used to DM tabletop RPGs invariably we'd have one guy who always played a thief just to steal shit from everyone else or he'd play a kender or some other obnoxious class and be completely focused on making everyone else miserable, angry and frustrated. Invariably he'd get caught, his character would get killed (quite gruesomely usually) and he'd whine about it the rest of the night about how unfair it was, he was just ROLEPLAYING after all and finally I'd have to throw him out.

Were you one of those guys? Be honest...

I was also the dude in CS that perma-used the tactical shield and WMP

[Ferok]

I was also the dude in CS that perma-used the tactical shield and WMP

Can you translate that into a Modern Warfare 2 reference please?

Appreciated.

[NotInventedHere]

I'm not much up on modern videa games but I think he's saying that he is that dude that likes to do the things you don't like to have done to you.

[grindle]

I voted yes on picking magic items ...if it was in classic then its needs to be here. I get tired of people bitching all the time that this is a classic server and you have to nerf this or change that but when it isn't something they want its always don't change it just for a couple of people . I'm sure most of the hybrid classes who are getting hit with that ridiculous EXP penalty would love to have that gone but it was decided that since it was that way in classic it has to say. The server either needs to either put the good stuff in with the bad and make it a true classic server or go semi custom and change what needs to be changed. Thanks for listening feel free to ripe my post to shreds its fun to read 8-) .

[President]

I voted yes on picking magic items ...if it was in classic then its needs to be here. I get tired of people bitching all the time that this is a classic server and you have to nerf this or change that but when it isn't something they want its always don't change it just for a couple of people . I'm sure most of the hybrid classes who are getting hit with that ridiculous EXP penalty would love to have that gone but it was decided that since it was that way in classic it has to say. The server either needs to either put the good stuff in with the bad and make it a true classic server or go semi custom and change what needs to be changed. Thanks for listening feel free to ripe my post to shreds its fun to read 8-) .

Well it might have been nice if you had actually read the thread before posting.

#1 it may have been classic but it was taken out
#2 what I have been able to find says they could not pick magic items, or worn/equipped items (which Abacab says he can do and may need to be nerfed).
#3 Aeolowelowewind said that this may have been something that should have been in at the beginning but since no one can provide any EVIDENCE of when it was removed that it's not going to be put in now.


I am sure if someone can find EVIDENCE that Rogues were able to pick magic items pre-kunark the dev's would reconsider.

[Auchae]

IIRC it was taken out a long time ago (but it was definately in game) because Rogues used to sneak into Vox's lair and were able to pickpocket the 100% weight reduction bag.

I wish I could find it on the net still. I remember seeing screenshots.

[Aeolwind]

Well it might have been nice if you had actually read the thread before posting.

#1 it may have been classic but it was taken out
#2 what I have been able to find says they could not pick magic items, or worn/equipped items (which Abacab says he can do and may need to be nerfed).
#3 Aeolowelowewind said that this may have been something that should have been in at the beginning but since no one can provide any EVIDENCE of when it was removed that it's not going to be put in now.


I am sure if someone can find EVIDENCE that Rogues were able to pick magic items pre-kunark the dev's would reconsider.

I'm certain they were able to pick magical items, but it was removed long, long before rubi and such were removed. If I'm not mistaken, it was a "feature" that got added in for about 3 weeks before it became super well known. Originally, the vox and naggy bags weren't magical, and thus were pickable, that is what brought to light the issue cause someone killed a Nagafen and got no loot =o. Logs revealed that the items on Nagafen had been picked and we have an instance of a notorious emergency patch. Mobs for the recent time frame had mysteriously been loading empty, and there was some complaints, but it was short lived. Also, shortly following that, the bags became magical and were thus no longer retrievable.

[bionicbadger]

lol, you used to be able to disarm the PoD too and grab his staff. That got nerfed right away too. That was never allowed on this server was it?

[Finawin]

Disarm is brokeded as far as I know.

[mitic]

resist gems are not pp here rite? ;)