Claiming a camp

[Beatitudes]

My evil toons hunt guards. Elfs,woodelves and dwarfs. When bags are full, I gate, sell and come back. Takes 3 to 5 mins. Do I give up the camp if someone comes in while I am selling? Most of the time I am back with no repops.

[zelld52]

If I found someone at the camp I had previous claim to before I left the zone, I'd ask. "Hey, would you be okay splitting this camp? I just ran to vendor to empty bags, but I'd like to stay here."

[cd288]

The technical rule is if you leave the zone at all then you forfeit the camp. If you go somewhere in the same zone to vendor, and you're back before the respawn, then the camp is still yours.

[sajbert]

If you leave zone or log = forfeit.
If you gate into same zone = possibly forfeit
If you leave spawns up for long = forfeit

In outdoor zones you can only hold one spawn if someone wants to challenge you.

[Swish]

Yep you've got to maintain a physical presence. If someone is staring at the guards who are about to repop with the intent of killing them it's now their camp if you were in the next zone selling.



Hadden is another example of this. Long timer spawn, people say they're camping him and will respond with "hadden" on a CC, but also want to wander around and do the Pyzjn placeholders.

If someone wants to turn up and sit at Hadden while you're doing cartwheels around the zone its now their camp.

In all cases (sadly) your best defense in a dispute is video evidence. Have OBS installed and running.

[shovelquest]

I think ideally we can get DSM Zuranth & Samhot to weigh in here.

[Goregasmic]

Best you can do is manage inventory to minimize the number of times you have to go sell.

Personally, in that situation if you're back before repops it is pretty obvious you're holding the camp and I'd go elsewhere but if some asshat wants to play elf law you're SOL.

[Tewaz]

Outdoor zone has a single mob camp rule.

So, if you are camping a large number of guards, a person can petition to have you split the camp with them.

[marquisxxx]

Or pay lowbies to sell for you.

[WarpathEQ]

Technically leaving the zone is a camp forfeit, in dungeon zones even leaving line of sight can be. With that said if the camp is 100% dead, and you're back before anything repops then there is also nothing available for anyone else to claim the camp with. I treat coming back as an open but contested camp, whoever FTEs/kills the first repop claims the camp.

Also if there are multiple people around (i.e. spectres in feerrott) it can be common place to just let people know you're running to vendor and coming right back. They will usually have your back if someone else comes along with a fresh CC or looking for a spot.

[Goregasmic]

Technically leaving the zone is a camp forfeit, in dungeon zones even leaving line of sight can be.

Depends on the camp, devs said sometimes it is ok to be close but out of LOS if it is impractical to be right there. I think this is mostly to remove any excuse for being anywhere else or holding multiple camps if contested.

Most players are usually understanding or will give you a warning and some zones even have player conventions but as I've learned this week, if you're not there you have no claim so it is always a risk.

[zelld52]

Like 3 of the responders here follow the spirit of the policies on this server. Everyone else likes to LawyerQuest over the semantics

[Goregasmic]

Like 3 of the responders here follow the spirit of the policies on this server. Everyone else likes to LawyerQuest over the semantics

Yeah it isn't as cutthroat but if someone decides to be a dick, server rules prevail.

[WarpathEQ]

Worth acknowledging that you can expect camp ediquette to work different during exp bonus weekends than normal. Like you said normally people in chardok are a small community and kinda work together to not trip over each other. I would 100% expect that not to be the case anytime a bonus is active so I would just always adjust and assume the worst.

Its why I made a joke in another thread about the irony that I actually end up gaining less exp during bonus days than normal because camps actually become contested.

[Snaggles]

If you are grinding city guards and can’t sell it’s best to make a lvl 1 alt and drop xfer the vendor stuff. You can buy gems and xfer those back. It’s still vacating the zone but you can pick and choose your moments easier, like at the end of your grind session.

When quadding suits I did my best never to leave to sell even when bound there on the wiz. The risk wasn’t worth the reward if I knew people were nipping at my heels for the camp.

Like 3 of the responders here follow the spirit of the policies on this server. Everyone else likes to LawyerQuest over the semantics

Technically rules/laws are not semantics. People just don’t often deal with the consequences because it’s awkward to hold prior to account.

[Goregasmic]

Worth acknowledging that you can expect camp ediquette to work different during exp bonus weekends than normal. Like you said normally people in chardok are a small community and kinda work together to not trip over each other. I would 100% expect that not to be the case anytime a bonus is active so I would just always adjust and assume the worst.

Its why I made a joke in another thread about the irony that I actually end up gaining less exp during bonus days than normal because camps actually become contested.

I was in chardok this weekend and it isn't wasn't that bad! Bit more people than usual but room for everyone. But yeah it is late in the server's life, could have been different earlier. But recently I did see zones like KC be a warzone on exp bonus weekends

I did spend bonus weekends running from camp to camp because everything is taken and settling for a sketchy camp then dying and ending the double xp bonus weekend with less exp than when I started though. I dreaded them for a while and prepared a plan B, C, D, E just in case everything was taken...

[vales]

is the nybright sister camp still yours if you sell at the vendor inside the zone and make it back before respawns?

[loramin]

is the nybright sister camp still yours if you sell at the vendor inside the zone and make it back before respawns?

Yes. Again, the standard is "die, zone, camp, or fail to engage respawns in a reasonable amount of time" (and what you described involves none of those things).

EDIT: But keep in mind that the general rule for outside zones is that you can only camp a single spawn point, so technically you are only guaranteed a single sister when you return.

[Gathmuredin]

Speaking of Camps, there is a guy telling people he has all the Unrest Courtyard camped.

Is that a thing? Seems a bit much even if he is trying to get PL'd. If nothing else it's a Friday night. lol

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1105873337797845094/1393451473865805986/Screenshot_2025-07-11.png?ex=68733850&is=6871e6d0&hm=621a434058decc281dd2b28085c55b611d9ef46ef0724ba 85179b57a7cf7094e&

[zelld52]

Speaking of Camps, there is a guy telling people he has all the Unrest Courtyard camped.

Is that a thing? Seems a bit much even if he is trying to get PL'd. If nothing else it's a Friday night. lol

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1105873337797845094/1393451473865805986/Screenshot_2025-07-11.png?ex=68733850&is=6871e6d0&hm=621a434058decc281dd2b28085c55b611d9ef46ef0724ba 85179b57a7cf7094e&

No it's not a thing.

I want to help by translating what sweaty mouthbreathers would say:

"It's an outdoor zone" - This is wrong. This applies to zones where there is a 6:40 respawn. Unrest has a much lengthier respawn than this. There are technically camps in Unrest because of this. (Main Room, Fireplace Room, Basement, Basement Pit, etc)

However, you can claim a portion of the courtyard for your own. Left, Right, or Back.

At this point in the server timeline, go somewhere else other than Unrest. I know groups go there, but it's one of the worst zones to level in. It takes 10 minutes to run there, there are very few actual spawn points (compared to other zones in same level range)

I suggest Permafrost instead of Unrest. Not only is it empty - but if you're going to run a long distance to get to an exp spot like Unrest, might as well run to Permafrost. It's got a higher ZEM, it's got LEAGUES more spawn points than Unrest - and the goblins drop bricks of ore which sell for a pretty penny. Perma can also take you to around level 30 before you have to change locs.

[Goregasmic]

I suggest Permafrost instead of Unrest. Not only is it empty - but if you're going to run a long distance to get to an exp spot like Unrest, might as well run to Permafrost. It's got a higher ZEM, it's got LEAGUES more spawn points than Unrest - and the goblins drop bricks of ore which sell for a pretty penny. Perma can also take you to around level 30 before you have to change locs.

At what level can you start soloing in perma and is there a vendor that will sell to evil races nearby?

[zelld52]

At what level can you start soloing in perma and is there a vendor that will sell to evil races nearby?

Depending on gear, between 15-20. The entrance goblins are as low as level 11. It's a pretty straight-forward and easy solo / small group between the entrance and archaeologist from 15-25+. It starts to get a bit dicey 25+ because you have to go inside the caves, where there are alot of priests that heal through walls.

Unfortunately, I don't remember any vendors that will sell to evil. The Barbarian Shaman spell vendor is nearby the Perma zoneline, but he's on Halas faction

[loramin]

Depending on gear, between 15-20. The entrance goblins are as low as level 11. It's a pretty straight-forward and easy solo / small group between the entrance and archaeologist from 15-25+. It starts to get a bit dicey 25+ because you have to go inside the caves, where there are alot of priests that heal through walls.

Unfortunately, I don't remember any vendors that will sell to evil. The Barbarian Shaman spell vendor is nearby the Perma zoneline, but he's on Halas faction

Yeah, I don't believe there are any evil vendors in Halas or Evefrost (or Permafrost or Blackburrow). I don't think there's one in Qeynos Hills either, so you're probably looking at running to West Karana or Qeynos (Sewers?).

Of course, another option would just be to stop off at Blackburrow on the way and murder a ton of gnolls (keeping their teeth (https://wiki.project1999.com/Gnoll_Bounty)). A level fifteen could kill gnolls up top fairly quickly, but if it were me I'd head there at level ten or eleven.

Blackburrow is a really great dungeon to do before Permafrost anyway, and it's reasonably safe once you learn it, as long as you stay on the surface or close to the exit tunnel. Once you've spent a few levels there you should no longer be KOS, and then turning in the teeth you've saved might even raise you another faction level beyond that (so you can sell your permafrost loot outside Halas for even more).

[Goregasmic]

Yeah I made an innoruuk DE cleric and she's 10 already. Was doing befallen until 12 ish then planned to move to unrest. Blackburrow gets slow at 11 IIRC, I'd have to spend a lot of time in there just to go sell.

Permafrost looked like a great spot to level last I checked but might be simpler to do 12-40 in unrest or stay in befallen and move to najena around 15 then mistmore early/mid 20s. Befallen and najena are about as busy as permafrost but I can sell in neriak. She's somewhat twinked (girdle of rapidity, GCM awaiting a devastator, hp/mana gear) so so far I'm just meleeing stuff down so undead or not, doesn't really matter. Not sure how long it will last though.

Sorry for sort of hijacking the thread.

[Zuranthium]

Yeah I made an innoruuk DE cleric and she's 10 already.

I also made a daughter in 2015! They grow up so fast.

[kjs86z2]

call the most prestigious elf lawyers in all of p99

[WarpathEQ]

Can confirm Permafrost is big struggle for Evil toons vendor options, as mentioned the only vendor in EF won't sell to you without some factioning, you have to do a mix of pelts of the newbie polar bears, bracers off the orcs, and eventually gnoll fangs once you can turn them in to get your faction fixed in order to vendor or access the town. Even then the bank in halas is one of the worst faction scenarios in the game having 3-4 different and challenging to improve factions in the same room, at best there is a path to get non-kos to gaurds and high enough to vendor but even after all that I still had to run all the way to qeynos (and invis, and pay close attention to the pathing wizard GM that was still kos just to bank. Fortunately I experienced all this from a shaman so I atleast was able to use alchemy as a seudo bank to turn the coin into 10 dose potions and consolidate the inventory space.

Add to it that Halas gaurds are KOS to wolf form, so you also don't have a viable tool to work around being kos to get those initial hits.

[loramin]

Yeah, I think Permafrost is best for twinks who don't care about loot, and just want a really good ZEM. Bring plenty of food/drink :)

[Goregasmic]

Yeah. Unrest/mistmoore situation isn't a ton better for evil, you can sell at druid rings IIRC but you can't bank anywhere in faydwer.

Might just hang out in befallen/najena longer than I expected but if you wanted to group, you're basically SOL with those two until you move to COM.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yeah. Unrest/mistmoore situation isn't a ton better for evil, you can sell at druid rings IIRC but you can't bank anywhere in faydwer.

Might just hang out in befallen/najena longer than I expected but if you wanted to group, you're basically SOL with those two until you move to COM.

Yeah the BB druid rings works for selling. That merchant sells to everyone.

You can invis into kelethin and bank on the outside through the window. This works on the banker farthest back in the hut. I do that on my monk. It's far enough away from the patroling guards, so you won't get agro.

You can also bank in Kaladim, as the banker is in a cubby. Just hug the wall to avoid LoS. But if you aren't careful you'll get backstabbed by the rogue trainers lol. At least one of them wanders past the door, and will agro through the door while passing by if I remember right. You need to be sure you aren't in direct line of sight to the door, and be as far away from the door as you can.

[Goregasmic]

Good to know. I guess I'd have to carry two ring of shadows and make a dwarf who can recharge them. Or find a vendor where I could convert currency into gems.

But at this point if I want to sell permafrost blocks I could ground xfer them to a barbarian mule and sell them. Sounds like a bigger hassle than it's worth but last time I went there I made like 1k per haul so after 10 levels in there you'd probably get some decent money.

But now that I think about it, wouldn't Sol A be essentially permafrost without the extra steps or it is a bit rougher?

[zelld52]

Good to know. I guess I'd have to carry two ring of shadows and make a dwarf who can recharge them. Or find a vendor where I could convert currency into gems.

But at this point if I want to sell permafrost blocks I could ground xfer them to a barbarian mule and sell them. Sounds like a bigger hassle than it's worth but last time I went there I made like 1k per haul so after 10 levels in there you'd probably get some decent money.

But now that I think about it, wouldn't Sol A be essentially permafrost without the extra steps or it is a bit rougher?

Yeah, Sol A is similar to perma, just slightly higher level. Rough to start there before level 25 or so, where Perma you can start around level 15.

I've done Sol A> Sol B from 25-60 on 3 toons now, and I can't recommend it enough

[loramin]

But now that I think about it, wouldn't Sol A be essentially permafrost without the extra steps or it is a bit rougher?

Nobody knows the ZEMs (and I've been lazy about starting "Project ZEM" to determine them), but I get the (subjective) sense that Perma's ZEM is significantly better than Sol A's.

I could be wrong, but I haven't heard anyone say that the bear pits XP has dropped recently, and that camp is universally recognized as crazy good XP (and you get the same ZEM for bears as for the goblins).

[zelld52]

I could be wrong, but I haven't heard anyone say that the bear pits XP has dropped recently, and that camp is universally recognized as crazy good XP (and you get the same ZEM for bears as for the goblins).

It has, sadly. I levelled 2 shaman there. First shaman was 2021, when Perma had the (reportedly) highest ZEM in the game. At Level 59 I was getting 1% per 4 bears.

2nd Shaman (levelled in 2024) was much slower. About 10 bears per 1%.

[Goregasmic]

Yeah, Sol A is similar to perma, just slightly higher level. Rough to start there before level 25 or so, where Perma you can start around level 15.

I've done Sol A> Sol B from 25-60 on 3 toons now, and I can't recommend it enough

Yeah the mob list in perma is jacked but it seems like lowest level goblin is level 11 while in solA it is 18. Perma has 144% bonus compared to the 119% of sol A, so doing 15-25 there seems to be a good choice before going to the other anyway (if those are remotely accurate). 144% would remain highest in game IIRC, even kedge is at 139%.

I know the monk treadmill is basically 1-20 kurns, 20-40 sol A, 40-60 sol B, don't see why it wouldn't work for other classes. Splitting/lulling sure does help a lot though.

[zelld52]

I know the monk treadmill is basically 1-20 kurns, 20-40 sol A, 40-60 sol B, don't see why it wouldn't work for other classes. Splitting/lulling sure does help a lot though.

Yep - the exact path I followed on my monk. But there's lots of packs of multiples in Sol A - using corners and FD to split mobs was crucial to being successful in both zones. There's also alot of shaman in Sol A, and while their heals don't mean much to a monk, rogue, warrior, ranger - for a cleric DPSing, it makes for long fights.

[cd288]

It has, sadly. I levelled 2 shaman there. First shaman was 2021, when Perma had the (reportedly) highest ZEM in the game. At Level 59 I was getting 1% per 4 bears.

2nd Shaman (levelled in 2024) was much slower. About 10 bears per 1%.

Was there a racial difference on the Shamans

[zelld52]

Was there a racial difference on the Shamans

I thought this, perhaps - but only of 5% (Ogre to Troll)

I did , however - head there on my 59 Druid to check, and noticed 1% from every roughly 8 kills (1 clear of bottom pit) on Druid.


It could very well be that my Ogre sham in 2021 had very good luck with high level spawns on the bears - but I tested for about 20% exp on both the new (Troll) Sham and Druid - and it took ~210 (25-26 rounds of killing all 8 bears in lower) kills to get 20% of 59 on shaman, and ~160 (20 rounds of all 8 bears) to get 20% of 59 on Druid.

Compared to my first Shaman, who was able to get 2%+ per round of 8 bears. (Only requiring about 10 rounds to get 20% in 59)

[cd288]

Hmm I don't recall the staff ever posting a negative adjustment to Perma did they? Maybe I'm misremembering though.

They don't tell us what the ZEMs are specifically but they do tell us if they reduce or increase a ZEM in general

[zelld52]

Hmm I don't recall the staff ever posting a negative adjustment to Perma did they? Maybe I'm misremembering though.

They don't tell us what the ZEMs are specifically but they do tell us if they reduce or increase a ZEM in general

Last change was November 2001 (shortly after I dinged 60 on my first Shaman)

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394926

[WarpathEQ]

Yeah the mob list in perma is jacked but it seems like lowest level goblin is level 11 while in solA it is 18. Perma has 144% bonus compared to the 119% of sol A, so doing 15-25 there seems to be a good choice before going to the other anyway (if those are remotely accurate). 144% would remain highest in game IIRC, even kedge is at 139%.

I know the monk treadmill is basically 1-20 kurns, 20-40 sol A, 40-60 sol B, don't see why it wouldn't work for other classes. Splitting/lulling sure does help a lot though.

Think we're all pretty confident at this point that the posted ZEMs are not true to reality

[Goregasmic]

Think we're all pretty confident at this point that the posted ZEMs are not true to reality

True percentage doesn't really matter anyway, as long as you can get a general idea of how zones do against each other.

I feel like pace/density might skew ZEM perception though.

[zelld52]

True percentage doesn't really matter anyway, as long as you can get a general idea of how zones do against each other.

I feel like pace/density might skew ZEM perception though.

Yah, that's why places like Perma and Sol A are so good - they are JAM PACKED with mobs. Despite somewhere like Unrest reportedly having a high ZEM - there are like 30 total mobs inside the house on the first two floors.

[Goregasmic]

Yah, that's why places like Perma and Sol A are so good - they are JAM PACKED with mobs. Despite somewhere like Unrest reportedly having a high ZEM - there are like 30 total mobs inside the house on the first two floors.

Or like why KC and HS have the same zem but KC is known to be hot trash and HS very good. KC is good exp but if your puller can only reel in 20 mobs an hour, your exp bar won't be moving much while HS is mostly empty.

[Swish]

Or like why KC and HS have the same zem but KC is known to be hot trash and HS very good. KC is good exp but if your puller can only reel in 20 mobs an hour, your exp bar won't be moving much while HS is mostly empty.

Your average HS mob is higher than most of the KC trash though isn't it?

[zelld52]

Your average HS mob is higher than most of the KC trash though isn't it?

I think it's pretty close, depending on the camp. Basement in KC is around the same average level as HS West iirc.

[Goregasmic]

Your average HS mob is higher than most of the KC trash though isn't it?

HS ent/basement is 42-46. North is 42-47.

KC some stuff is around 40-44 at entrance/CYs but past that almost everything is higher than HS. The issue with KC is 2-3 solid groups with good pullers can basically empty the zone.

South/east are a whole lot harder but much less accessible, different category in my opinion, you don't go there with a PUG.

[kjs86z2]

thats why hands is the best camp in KC

you can steal mobs from basement, LCY, jail, etc

[cd288]

thats why hands is the best camp in KC

you can steal mobs from basement, LCY, jail, etc

If you have a puller with beads you can steal mobs from basically every other camp from whatever camp you're in, it's kind of hilarious

[marquisxxx]

If you have a puller with beads you can steal mobs from basically every other camp from whatever camp you're in, it's kind of hilarious

Is this "Classic"? I really don't know, just curious.

[loramin]

Is this "Classic"? I really don't know, just curious.

Having more than 0.01% of the server equipped with beads? No, it's wildly unclassic.

[zelld52]

I didn't even know Beads were a thing until P99. Same with lots of stuff, actually.

Y'know what else isn't classic? Links in chat channels. Bring back REAL EC auctions for Green 2.0.

"Selling 3 bags at T1. Open trade to see what's inside"

[cd288]

I knew what beads "were", as did a lot of people, but I don't think that a lot of people fully appreciated what you could do with the eye.

Like, IIRC in classic it was just viewed as a kind of cool gimmick that could be useful in some situations for exploring. I don't think it was viewed as such a hugely useful pulling tool, especially not in terms of how hugely useful it is for things like breaking into HoT etc., until later on.