Velious Solo/Duo Challenge Official Thread (and Trio/Group) [Archive]

Zuranthium

07-10-2025, 05:06 PM

It's been a decade and we still don't have a list of Velious challenges for players to do. In this thread I will gather input and put together a community list of challenges. For now I am just listing the Solo/Duo tiers in this post, but any input on Trio/Group challenges should also be discussed.

Here is a starting list of MOB's for each category, please discuss any alterations you think you should made. Especially helpful would be input about any particular MOB's that are very difficult to pull, as that makes a difference in what category a MOB should be in. After compiling a full list we can decide how many MOB's in each category are needed to achieve the rank (my initial thought was half of the MOB's per zone). All listed MOB's are grouped together by what zone they are in.

Solo Master:
* level 52-54 Western Wastes Dragons (minus Bufa/Nintal/Espora/Gangel/Quoza) and Ice Burrower (https://wiki.project1999.com/An_ice_burrower)
* Laoch Uljux (https://wiki.project1999.com/Laoch_Uljux) / Laoch Yubtin / Laoch Zalbryn / Elder Kalur / Elder Kajind / Elder Hajnix / Tri Velic / A Kromzek Spy
* level 56 Wakening Land priests / Mist Panther (https://wiki.project1999.com/Mist_Panther) / Shamus Aghllsews
* all level 55-56 MOB in Dragon Necropolis
* Yvolcarn (https://wiki.project1999.com/Yvolcarn)
* Vores the Hunter (https://wiki.project1999.com/Vores_the_Hunter) / Kardakor / Gnomish Deserter
* A siren priestess (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_siren_priestess) / An Enthralled Molkor
* A4 Brenn+Grenn / TwentyTwo (A4 version) (hhttps://wiki.project1999.com/TwentyTwo) / EightySix / A hedge wizard (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_hedge_wizard) (might need to be a tier higher, can't remember if any can be solo aggroed)
* all unnamed level 54-57 Plane of Growth MOB
* all level 53 Icepaw in Velk's Lab / Any level 55-56 MOB in Velk's Lab
* all level 55-56 MOB in Kael (certain MOB's probably need to be a tier higher because of pull difficulty)
* Tserrina Syl'Tor (must obtain each dungeon key on your own for it to count)

Solo Grandmaster/Duo Master:
* level 56-58 Western Wastes Dragons that don't C-heal or Chaos Breath, plus Bufa/Nintal/Espora/Gangel/Quoza, plus Stronghorn (https://wiki.project1999.com/Strong_Horn) / Tantor / Breezeboot
* Laoch Yailin (https://wiki.project1999.com/Laoch_Yailin) / Laoch Jaklor / Quadrix Velic / Supreme Laochsmith Psorin / Eldriaks Fe`Dhar / Ralgyn
* A corrupted unicorn (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_corrupted_unicorn)
* level 59-60 named Rats in Dragon Necropolis
* Chief Kalan (https://wiki.project1999.com/Chief_Kalan)
* all level 57-61 MOB in Thurgadin/Icewell, except the Royal Guardsmen
* An icy servant / Fellspine / A neriad weaver (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_neriad_weaver)
* Plane of Mischief puppets (aside from Bristlebane) / My Right Hand (https://wiki.project1999.com/My_Right_Hand)
* Galiel Spirithoof (https://wiki.project1999.com/Galiel_Spirithoof) / Ordro / Sarik the Fang / Grahl Strongback / Tunarean Earthmelder / A thifling lord / An entoling essence channeler / A Serene Forest Spirit
* A Crystal Destroyer (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_crystal_destroyer) / Failed Experiment
* all level 57-58 MOB in Kael (certain MOB's probably need to be a tier higher because of pull difficulty)
* all level 59-62 MOB in the entry areas of Temple of Veeshan that don't have linked aggro, such as An emerald sky defender (https://wiki.project1999.com/An_emerald_sky_defender)

Solo God/Duo Grandmaster:
* level 59-60 Western Waste Dragons, plus lower level Dragons that C-heal or Chaos Breath, plus Icehackle (https://wiki.project1999.com/Icehackle) / Tsiraka / Tranala / Travala
* Laoch Zelnair plus any level 58+ Loach MOB in Skyshrine / Lawyla (https://wiki.project1999.com/Lawyla) / Jualicn / Oglard / Talnifs / Talon Velic / Lignark / Zaldin Fe`Dhar
* Phenocryst (https://wiki.project1999.com/Phenocryst) / Rolandal
* Vilefang / A Chetari Packrat / A Chetari Hoarder (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Chetari_hoarder)
* Lodizal
* Captain Stonefist (https://wiki.project1999.com/Captain_Stonefist)
* Grand Historian Thoridain (https://wiki.project1999.com/Grand_Historian_Thoridain) / Royal Guardsmen in Icewell Keep
* A Siren Templar (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_siren_templar)
* Ferjeneror / Lithiniath / Bristlebane puppet (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bristlebane_Puppet)
* A Phase Puma (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_phase_puma) / A guardian power / An abstruse phantasm
* Tpos Icepaw / Gregendek Icepaw / Khelkar Icepaw / Bledrek+Bled (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bledrek) / Kerdelb+Kerd
* all level 60-65 MOB in Kael (certain MOB's probably need to be a tier higher because of pull difficulty)
* all level 59-62 MOB in the entry areas of Temple of Veeshan that have linked aggro

Duo God:
* Level 62-66 Western Wastes Dragons
* A Huge Gargoyle Guard / A Huge Golem Sentry (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Huge_Golem_Sentry) / Placlis / The Seer
* Queen Raltaas (https://wiki.project1999.com/Queen_Raltaas) / Vaniki / Neb
* Seneschal Aldikar (Icewell Keep)
* Taskmaster Abyott (https://wiki.project1999.com/Taskmaster_Abyott)
* Level 60-61 named mermaids in Siren's Grotto
* Keeper of the Glades (https://wiki.project1999.com/Keeper_of_the_glades) / Undogo Digolo / Ancient Totem
* all Level 66+ MOB in Kael (minus raid targets)
* various Temple of Veeshan encounters to be decided

Completion Tiers: (same rules for Duos)

[S+] Soloed with no consumable items and self buffs only
[S] Soloed with no consumable items but moderate use of outside buffs OR no outside buffs with moderate use of consumable items
[S-] Soloed with excessive use of outside buffs or consumable items
[S*] Soloed with use of strong item clickies (Puppet Strings or multiple clicks of any strong item, or single click with outside buffs)
[S with pull help] Soloed with pull help (or used non-classic Lull); use same 4 tiers as above for each type of pull-assisted kill

God kills using any completion method will be saved to the wiki.

Lull is currently non-Classic on p99 (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434049) and will count as using Pull Help until it is fixed (does not apply to Bard lull). Lull spells in classic EQ are supposed to be 100% resisted on all Level 50+ MOBs and have a minimum 55% chance of getting resisted AND ending every tick on Level 40-49 MOBs.

Strong item clickies include Puppet Strings, Soulfire-type items, Slowstone-type items, and Wooly Spider Silk Net, while lesser consumable items are shaman potions and things of that nature. Use of those consumables should be limited, as they can equate to being the same as using a strong item clicky (ie, many healing potion clicks is equivalent to using a complete heal Soulfire-type clicky; consumable items that produce DPS are overpowered when stacked or combined with usage of healing potion).

Moderate use of consumables should equate to being less powerful than healing your character with a click of a Soulfire-type item. More than 2 significant buffs exceeds the threshold of what is considered "moderate use" of outside buffs.

PatChapp

07-10-2025, 07:57 PM

Goregasmic

07-10-2025, 10:08 PM

Are they all doable? Abyott has like 75khp, that's a lot to chew through. Stuff in velks can also 1round you IIRC. Same for phase pumas. You basically hope your pet doesn't break or you're done for.

Only helsia kill I've seen the guy used 3 toons to do it, I'm not even sure that's legal, much less accepted for SAC.

Stuff in SG is kind of annoying because if you messed up your faction a lot will be very very hard if not impossible. If lull is not permitted then even less so. You also didn't specify how many you need in each category to complete it.

No disciple category?

Oh and for lorean's challenge, the difficulty took the logistics into account. If you're going to rule out lulls then you'll have to find kills that require some other sort of ingeniosity or it basically becomes a "how long will my boltran hold" challenge.

Zuranthium

07-10-2025, 10:27 PM

If helsia mindreaver falls into your named mermaids in sirens, she can be solod with a reaper and 1,maybe 2 pacifies depending on spawns in her room.
Would be duo,maybe trio content without any pacify.

Each MOB in a tier should be beatable at S+ rank (some of those challenges will require a big time investment and/or luck), so yes that's why she is in the Duo God category.

These are the other 3 - Mistress Latazura (https://wiki.project1999.com/Mistress_Latazura), Priestess Sercema (https://wiki.project1999.com/Priestess_Sercema), Elna Kelpweaver (https://wiki.project1999.com/Elna_Kelpweaver). All surrounded by very difficult entourages. Elna might be too hard for even a duo considering the temple she is in and how tightly packed those MOB's are; need more info about all the possible pull angles and possibility of clearing the way to her, I've never bothered to do that area (almost nobody has). Similarly, the Siren Templar in that same area would be too difficult for the Solo tier if it's impossible to pull without aggroing a bunch of things.

The combo of snare+FD will become even more valuable for certain camps after Lull is fixed on the server. Certain content might only even be S+ possible by a Monk, with the technique of pulling a group of MOB's and using FD after a single attack, hoping to proc snare right away so the MOB you want to split will lag behind while the others walk back.

You didn't specify how many you need in each category to complete it

That's still TBD by everyone, like the post says. I'd argue for a high percentage, because so much of this Velious content is stuff that just sits there completely unused otherwise, unlike the Kunark challenges where it was things that were already being camped.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-10-2025, 11:23 PM

4+ West Waste Dragons (like Hechaeva) and 6+ West Waste Dragons (like Ionat) are pullable without lull, FD, etc. It just takes watching for pathers and dodging them. For Ionat you do need Sont to be killed or moved away from the entrance for a lull-less pull.

https://youtu.be/igpbLuNe0ls?feature=shared - Bravatar solo pull and kill on a Shaman, self buff only.

https://youtu.be/oPxeOVuX0G8?feature=shared - Ionat solo pull and kill on a shaman, self buff only.

I am not 100% sure if Ice Burrower is a worthy target. They do not summon, and their AoE is a proc triggered in combat, so they won't randomly dispel you like a 4+ Dragon unless you are in range to get attacked. They don't have extra HP regen either. As fas as I know any class with a ranged attack can eventually kite them to death. In the video below I show how you can just run back and forth along the shore to avoid adds.

https://youtu.be/5fsvt1xfuqY?feature=shared - Ice burrower solo kill Shaman, self buff only.

Now that mobs can no longer be interrupted via push, I do not think it is actually possible to solo/duo a 6+ Dragon that can CH. You will need to fight them on their spawn point to avoid gate, and they will CH multiple times. The long kill time though multiple CH's and the high probability of adds is a tall order. Not sure if a solo enchanter or a duoing enchanter would be able to sieve it well enough by themselves while doing their other duties. I have tried to do the 6+ CH dragons both solo and duo a few times. It didn't work well either on the spawn point or pulled to the shore.

Danth

07-11-2025, 12:12 AM

I have tried to do the 6+ CH dragons both solo and duo a few times. It didn't work well either on the spawn point or pulled to the shore.

They seem to have an elevated mana regen rate compared to default mobs. The wife and I were able to duo numerous 55+ CH'ers and gaters using mana drain (mortificator staff on her shamana), but not the CH'ing WW dragons. We've seen them CH 7+ times so alternately their mana pool might just be that huge. Maybe both. Our effort was a complete standoff where we eventually got bored and camped/cleared aggro. Disclaimer is it's been some years since we tried them so stuff might've been changed in the meantime.

Coming from a shadowknight perspective I'll attest to the usefulness of snare-feign splitting in some areas.

Gregendek Icepaw is too easy for that tier and is at least a full tier easier than Khelkor. Both the mob itself is much easier and the room/split is also dramatically less risky. Difference in damage is double 240's more or less, compared to quad 290's.

Plane of Growth is troublesome due to Protectors. Many 'solo' challenges in there would involve somebody else keeping those occupied.

The other castle named in velk is Kerdelb, basically identical to Bledrek other than drops. These guys hit for 400+ with fairly high MR but can be camped in a pretty controlled manner.

Faction plays a huge role in Velious, far moreso than was the case during Kunark. Doing stuff in Velketor, Kael, Skyshrine, Growth, Siren's, etc is much, much easier for players who are non-KOS. A Velious challenge should account for this because it modifies the difficulty so greatly, much moreso than outside buffs do.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 12:39 AM

They seem to have an elevated mana regen rate compared to default mobs. The wife and I were able to duo numerous 55+ CH'ers and gaters using mana drain (mortificator staff on her shamana), but not the CH'ing WW dragons. We've seen them CH 7+ times so alternately their mana pool might just be that huge. Maybe both. Our effort was a complete standoff where we eventually got bored and camped/cleared aggro. Disclaimer is it's been some years since we tried them so stuff might've been changed in the meantime.

This was my experience as well. Maybe a Shaman/Enchanter duo could do it if the Shaman soloed the dragon completely, and the Enchanter only did lulls/CC on adds and sieves on the dragon. Have the Shaman use a Mort Staff, have the summoned enchanter pet with mort staff, and the Shaman can use https://wiki.project1999.com/Red_Dragon_Tooth to summon a pet that can hold a weapon (doggo cannot) and put a third mort staff on that. The AoEs would probably kill the pets though. The Shaman would need to keep them Torped up.

If both the Enchanter and Shaman have a bio orb they may be able to blind kite it once it gets low enough. They will be able to malo + tash it for the best chance at landing blinds. You would need decent luck, as you could get a string of resists during a CH/Gate cast while blind is off.

Solo Grandmaster/Duo Master:
* level 56-58 Western Wastes Dragons that don't C-heal or Chaos Breath, plus Bufa/Nintal/Espora/Gangel/Quoza, plus Stronghorn / Tantor / Breezeboot
* Laoch Yailin / Laoch Jaklor / Quadrix Velic / Supreme Laochsmith Psorin / Eldriaks Fe`Dhar / Ralgyn

Back to OP's list, I don't think Tantor or Stronghorn should be on the list for the same reason as Ice Burrowers. They do not summon, so you can kite them Indefinitely on any class with a ranged attack, or just keep agro on yourself while you have a pet beat it to death. Any class can use bio orb + https://wiki.project1999.com/Red_Dragon_Tooth .

You can chug SoW pots to counter Stronghorn's SoW speed if you don't have SoW as a spell.

Goregasmic

07-11-2025, 06:43 AM

.
Faction plays a huge role in Velious, far moreso than was the case during Kunark. Doing stuff in Velketor, Kael, Skyshrine, Growth, Siren's, etc is much, much easier for players who are non-KOS. A Velious challenge should account for this because it modifies the difficulty so greatly, much moreso than outside buffs do.

Back to OP's list, I don't think Tantor or Stronghorn should be on the list for the same reason as Ice Burrowers. They do not summon, so you can kite them Indefinitely on any class with a ranged attack, or just keep agro on yourself while you have a pet beat it to death. Any class can use bio orb + https://wiki.project1999.com/Red_Dragon_Tooth .

You can chug SoW pots to counter Stronghorn's SoW speed if you don't have SoW as a spell.

I agree about the faction point but at the same time if you're only using zones with no faction you'd basically cordon off a big part of velious. Best way to deal with this would be allowing a completion kill number below the threshold of requiring to be factionned. But factioned zones like chardok were most likely left off the first challenge because they're trivial for factionned people and mostly impossible for KOS. Like, a chanter could try velks golems but no shaman is getting there on their own for 1 attempt and making the crawl was part of the rules of the first challenge.

Another point would be if you need bio orb to make a pull, that's a 150k item. You'll be able to count on your fingers the number of people who will be willing to park that much money for a solo artist challenge. Kinda like how the first one basically required non-chanters to get puppet strings to compete. Nobody is farming red dragon teeth either.

Problem with loraen's list IMHO is it was basically a chanter challenge and the biggest factor for success on most kills was charm not breaking. More accessible kills would be fun and stuff like tantor/ice worms opens it up a little. Could be in the disciple rank though.

PatChapp

07-11-2025, 07:06 AM

Only helsia kill I've seen the guy used 3 toons to do it, I'm not even sure that's legal, much less accepted for SAC.

I kill her with a solo enchanter,no toon swapping.
Maybe il film the next one if I ever bother again
Haven't done it with short paci timers,will be tight but I think still doable

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 09:47 AM

Another point would be if you need bio orb to make a pull, that's a 150k item. You'll be able to count on your fingers the number of people who will be willing to park that much money for a solo artist challenge. Kinda like how the first one basically required non-chanters to get puppet strings to compete. Nobody is farming red dragon teeth either.

Oh that wasn't the point I was making. Bio orb in that scenario is just used to maintain agro while the summomed pet from the tooth beats the mob to death. It wasn't for pulling. It was a bit of an extreme example, but it shows how any class can kite non summoning mobs. Tantor / Stronghorn / Ice Burrowers are above level 60, so blind won't land most of the time, it's just for agro.

If you need an easier example for Tantor / Stronghorn / Ice Burrowers, a Ranger can simply bow kite them forever with Tolan's Bracer to summon arrows. Warriors/Rogues/SKs/Paladins can corpse arrows to do the same thing and/or fletch in the field. Every class with a pet can do the trick I described with bio orb and tooth, etc.

There's at least one way for every class to kite Tantor / Stronghorn / Ice Burrowers to death, it may just take a long time. That's why I think they are a bit too easy. Maybe they could be in a lower tier OP hasn't made yet, like disciple or warmup.

Zuranthium

07-11-2025, 05:49 PM

Encounters are not rated based on using consumables, particularly not Red Dragon Tooth, which should probably be considered Puppet Strings tier. Also don't get why DSM is saying anyone can use a pet + bio orb to kite. Bio orb will cause the pet to aggro any time blind lands, and if you're trying to very slowly build up aggro before sending the pet, that won't work vs Tantor running at SoW speed; you get hit before the bio orb activation finishes.

Yes the non-summoning NPC's can be kited with various methods by some classes but it can take a ton of time. Their raw stats and "cool" factor make them worth including I think. Let the Rangers have something. People still need to beat dragons to complete the rank.

They seem to have an elevated mana regen rate compared to default mobs. The wife and I were able to duo numerous 55+ CH'ers and gaters using mana drain (mortificator staff on her shamana), but not the CH'ing WW dragons. Disclaimer is it's been some years since we tried them so stuff might've been changed in the meantime.

Would be interesting to test out. The staff is doing 260 mana decrease per minute from procs, but Enchanters can do 1,400+ per minute.

Gregendek Icepaw is too easy for that tier and is at least a full tier easier than Khelkor. Both the mob itself is much easier and the room/split is also dramatically less risky.

Thank you, I had their rooms reversed. Greg can be lowered a tier.

Plane of Growth is troublesome due to Protectors. Many 'solo' challenges in there would involve somebody else keeping those occupied.

It's fine to have someone keep them down, that shouldn't count against for these purposes. It would be unfair otherwise to people who already permanently ruined their faction while raiding, and if the protectors were instead included in the difficulty rating, that would also be unfair to people who want to maintain their faction by using /q before kills.

Does anyone know if the protector of growth (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_protector_of_growth) HP listed here is correct, btw? I thought it was half that amount.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 06:30 PM

loramin

07-11-2025, 06:31 PM

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 06:42 PM

Constructive discussion between some of this forum's strongest personalities over solo artistry ... and everyone's being respectful to each other?

https://media.tenor.com/G9jS1yGtns4AAAAM/im-in-heaven-larry-david.gif

My rule never changes. Don't attack me, and act respectful. I will always respond in kind. Hopefully you choose to act respectful and don't attack me in this thread.

Duik

07-11-2025, 11:26 PM

I cant help but protect the innocent (and trolls need food too).

Zuranthium

07-12-2025, 12:03 AM

You can also build up agro before summoning the pet.

Build it up how vs a SoW speed MOB? Even with SoW yourself you have to strafe kite for a long time to gain enough space advantage to use a single fast activation ability. It would take hours and hours. Anyone who puts that amount of time in deserves the kill, LOL.

Everybody can use SoW pots as well.

Only if they don't want to try for an S+ kill.

Having SoW still doesn't change anything about being able to use Bio Orb. It has 5 second activation; a SoW speed MOB closes in too quickly. Even vs a regular speed MOB it may be sketchy, I can't remember exactly. I do remember 4.5 second casts from max range being barely able to outspace a regular speed MOB. You're also going to need to reapply lev cloak a bunch during this kiting process if that's your lev source, and it's a 6 sec cast. Plus more drinks of the SoW pot. Trying to kite down at the water probably won't work either, you need room to strafe in a big circle to build up the space, so that opens you up to getting other aggro.

I disagree with the idea that red dragon tooth is on par with puppet strings. A charmed mob is going to do a lot more damage than a level 41 necro pet.

Charm of course has much higher potential, but can break. It's not about the two items being exactly the same power though, it's about the tier. Two clicks of any other strong item is S* tier. A single click of Puppet Strings can be much more powerful than that, but it's all the same tier because it's ultimately all the same thing of using a massive hack. Dragon tooth could be considered that level of hackery, it's creating a ton of DPS in a way other items can't.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-12-2025, 01:25 AM

Build it up how vs a SoW speed MOB? Even with SoW yourself you have to strafe kite for a long time to gain enough space advantage to use a single fast activation ability. It would take hours and hours. Anyone who puts that amount of time in deserves the kill, LOL.

Only if they don't want to try for an S+ kill.

Having SoW still doesn't change anything about being able to use Bio Orb. It has 5 second activation; a SoW speed MOB closes in too quickly. Even vs a regular speed MOB it may be sketchy, I can't remember exactly. I do remember 4.5 second casts from max range being barely able to outspace a regular speed MOB. You're also going to need to reapply lev cloak a bunch during this kiting process if that's your lev source, and it's a 6 sec cast. Plus more drinks of the SoW pot. Trying to kite down at the water probably won't work either, you need room to strafe in a big circle to build up the space, so that opens you up to getting other aggro.

Charm of course has much higher potential, but can break. It's not about the two items being exactly the same power though, it's about the tier. Two clicks of any other strong item is S* tier. A single click of Puppet Strings can be much more powerful than that, but it's all the same tier because it's ultimately all the same thing of using a massive hack. Dragon tooth could be considered that level of hackery, it's creating a ton of DPS in a way other items can't.

You are spending too much time thinking about the Red Dragon Tooth + Bio Orb strategy. It was just an all/all example to show every class has at least one method of killing non-summon mobs. I've done bio orb kiting before, so I do have an understanding of it. I don't want to keep getting caught up on details and have the conversation stall.

Most classes have an easier way to kill non-summoning mobs, as I already explained. Tantor can be soloed by a sub 60 ranger doing bow kiting, as a simple example. That shouldn't be a second teir kill in my opinion. A Warrior with SoW pots and corpsed arrows can do the same.

Not everyone agrees with your classification of clickies. Most people have Jboots, and most mobs run at normal speed. It is a bit weird to disquailify someone from S+ due to SoW pots, unless you are banning JBoots as well.

Zuranthium

07-12-2025, 05:22 AM

Jboots aren't a consumable, it's everlasting equipment.

Tantor can be soloed by a sub 60 ranger doing bow kiting, as a simple example.

Yeah but that's just an example of a particular strength the class has that isn't applicable elsewhere, and it takes a lot of time. That capability the class has deserves to get its tiny moment in the sun. Also the big draw I see with the Velious challenges is incentivizing people to interact with NPC's they otherwise never would touch.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-12-2025, 09:11 AM

Jboots aren't a consumable, it's everlasting equipment.

Both SoW Pots and JBoots are a clickie. The power of the clickie is what matters, not the number of charges. If you allow JBoots, you should allow SoW Pots. Most mobs run at normal speed, so you'll outrun them with JBoots anyway.

Yeah but that's just an example of a particular strength the class has that isn't applicable elsewhere, and it takes a lot of time. That capability the class has deserves to get its tiny moment in the sun. Also the big draw I see with the Velious challenges is incentivizing people to interact with NPC's they otherwise never would touch.

It's not Ranger specific. Warriors, Rogues, Shadowknights and Paladins can bow kite Tantor as well wih SoW Pots. They can bow kite Ice Burrowers and Stronghorn with JBoots. You can just corpse arrows and/or fletch in the field.

Duik

07-12-2025, 09:50 AM

Sounds like 10% mana and 10% HP naked challeges are the only way to prove our manliness to one another.

Gonna get me some nekkid elf video if it's the last thing i do. Oops, did I just say that out loud?

loramin

07-12-2025, 02:05 PM

I don't see consensus yet on clickies or ranks, so I haven't tried to summarize the discussion on them, but it seems like the mob/tier list is mostly uncontroversial, which is great! If no one objects, everything on the list without red text after it could go onto the wiki tomorrow.

As for the red stuff, I'm sure everyone here can come to a reasonable agreement on it, and then everything can go into the wiki.

Here's are the "controversies" I see so far (plus I added one of my own). Apologies if I missed anything.

Solo Master:
* level 52-54 Western Wastes Dragons (minus Bufa/Nintal/Espora/Gangel/Quoza) and Ice Burrower
These dragons are single-pullalble (I was unclear if this meant the poster felt that should change the tier of these mobs, or not) - DSM
Ice Burrower in contention as too easy for this tier - DSM
* Laoch Uljux / Laoch Yubtin / Laoch Zalbryn / Elder Kalur / Elder Kajind / Elder Hajnix / Tri Velic / A Kromzek Spy
* level 56 Wakening Land priests / Mist Panther / Shamus Aghllsews
* all level 55-56 MOB in Dragon Necropolis
* Yvolcarn
* Vores the Hunter / Kardakor / Gnomish Deserter
* A siren priestess / An Enthralled Molkor
* A4 Brenn+Grenn / TwentyTwo (A4 version) / EightySix / A hedge wizard (might need to be a tier higher, can't remember if any can be solo aggroed)
* all unnamed level 54-57 Plane of Growth MOB
* all level 53 Icepaw in Velk's Lab / Any level 55-56 MOB in Velk's Lab
* all level 55-56 MOB in Kael (certain MOB's probably need to be a tier higher because of pull difficulty)
* Tserrina Syl'Tor (must obtain each dungeon key on your own for it to count)
The dungeon key thing sounds out of scope of the challenge to me; the solo artist challenge is about doing cool solo fights, not nit-picking how people get to the fight, and this isn't the solo self-found challenge (we don't make people solo earn any of the other items they bring) - Loramin

Solo Grandmaster/Duo Master:
* level 56-58 Western Wastes Dragons that don't C-heal or Chaos Breath, plus Bufa/Nintal/Espora/Gangel/Quoza, plus Stronghorn / Tantor / Breezeboot
I don't think Tantor or Stronghorn should be on the list ... They do not summon, so you can kite them - DSM
* Laoch Yailin / Laoch Jaklor / Quadrix Velic / Supreme Laochsmith Psorin / Eldriaks Fe`Dhar / Ralgyn
* A corrupted unicorn
* level 59-60 named Rats in Dragon Necropolis
* Chief Kalan
* all level 57-61 MOB in Thurgadin/Icewell, except the Royal Guardsmen
* An icy servant / Fellspine / A neriad weaver
* Plane of Mischief puppets (aside from Bristlebane) / My Right Hand
* Galiel Spirithoof / Ordro / Sarik the Fang / Grahl Strongback / Tunarean Earthmelder / A thifling lord / An entoling essence channeler / A Serene Forest Spirit
* A Crystal Destroyer / Failed Experiment
* all level 57-58 MOB in Kael (certain MOB's probably need to be a tier higher because of pull difficulty)
We need to figure out the "certain mobs" part
* all level 59-62 MOB in the entry areas of Temple of Veeshan that don't have linked aggro, such as An emerald sky defender

Solo God/Duo Grandmaster:
* level 59-60 Western Waste Dragons, plus lower level Dragons that C-heal or Chaos Breath, plus Icehackle / Tsiraka / Tranala / Travala
* Laoch Zelnair plus any level 58+ Loach MOB in Skyshrine / Lawyla / Jualicn / Oglard / Talnifs / Talon Velic / Lignark / Zaldin Fe`Dhar
* Phenocryst / Rolandal
* Vilefang / A Chetari Packrat / A Chetari Hoarder
* Lodizal
* Captain Stonefist
* Grand Historian Thoridain / Royal Guardsmen in Icewell Keep
* A Siren Templar
* Ferjeneror / Lithiniath / Bristlebane puppet
* A Phase Puma / A guardian power / An abstruse phantasm
* Tpos Icepaw / Gregendek Icepaw / Khelkar Icepaw / Bledrek+Bled / Kerdelb+Kerd
Gregendek Icepaw is too easy for that tier - Danth
Zura agrees; looks like there's consensus this one should move down
* all level 60-65 MOB in Kael (certain MOB's probably need to be a tier higher because of pull difficulty)
* all level 59-62 MOB in the entry areas of Temple of Veeshan that have linked aggro

Duo God:
* Level 62-66 Western Wastes Dragons
* A Huge Gargoyle Guard / A Huge Golem Sentry / Placlis / The Seer
* Queen Raltaas / Vaniki / Neb
* Seneschal Aldikar (Icewell Keep)
* Taskmaster Abyott
* Level 60-61 named mermaids in Siren's Grotto
Helsia mindreaver is soloable (and so belongs on a lower tier) - PatChapp
* Keeper of the Glades / Undogo Digolo / Ancient Totem
* all Level 66+ MOB in Kael (minus raid targets)
* various Temple of Veeshan encounters to be decided
"Various" needs to be determined

Finally, just a general comment, there's a lot of "all mobs ..." entries. When we put this in the wiki, I think it'd be ideal to spell those mobs out, so each one has a link people can click on to see what they're going to solo.

Zuranthium

07-12-2025, 02:44 PM

Both SoW Pots and JBoots are a clickie.

One is a consumable and one isn't. No different than the clicky effects on any other piece of equipment that doesn't have charges, as compared to items that do. Those equipment effects are something a character always has and require no additional time/money expenditure to use (which is a particularly important consideration for servers that don't have item recharging).

It's not Ranger specific. Warriors, Rogues, Shadowknights and Paladins can bow kite Tantor as well wih SoW Pots.

No they can't, not realistically, and SoW pot inherently makes it different than a Ranger's achievement (SoW sword can be used instead, although it takes longer to activate, a detriment while kiting). Warriors and Paladins are also going to need the dragon tooth, a further different tier of doing the encounter, unless they get some unbelievable one-in-a-billion luck of hitting a bunch of instant snare procs that don't get resisted. Even then, it would take a LONG time to do.

Feel free to try fighting it with your Shaman. I know for certain it will take longer than any other WW fight you've done, if you can do it at all. It already took you an hour to do an Ice Burrower, much more time than dragons of that tier and many other fights.

* Tserrina Syl'Tor (must obtain each dungeon key on your own for it to count)
The dungeon key thing sounds out of scope of the challenge to me

Moving through each area of the dungeon on your own is the purpose of the challenge, and something a lot of people have never done. Tserrina herself is not much of a challenge.

Finally, just a general comment, there's a lot of "all mobs ..." entries.

Yes, there's still quite a bit of work to do in separating some of them out and deciding exactly how many to include and how many things in total are needed to complete a tier.

bcbrown

07-12-2025, 03:21 PM

The sentiment of "if a ranger can kill it, it shouldn't be on the list" is rather disappointing and discouraging to me. Otherwise it's just gonna be primarily enchanters and shamans participating with the occasional monk or necro. I'd much rather see a list of the hardest stuff that can be killed by an SK, or a wizard, etc.

I watched a friend of mine almost-solo Strong Horn once. It took him maybe an hour, running around to find mobs to charm into it. By the end he also had two ice burrowers chasing him. I say almost because I came and epic-snared it at the end so he could run off the burrowers. Soloing something like that is an achievement worth celebrating IMO.

And Tantor - the wiki page includes a couple notes by people who duoed/soloed it. Seems to me that's a good indication it deserves to be included. If someone's proud enough of their achivement to update the wiki, and few enough people are able to do it such that there's just a couple of entries, seems to me like it should be included on the challenge list.

Looks like the list in this thread is only Velious mobs, but a couple other mobs I'm proud of soloing are Estrella, Tainted/Corrupted seahorses, the Ghoul Lord, the Froglok King, and Priest of Discord. I think it would be much more interesting and engaging to have a list of mobs that most players/classes could attempt.

Another name is Faydedar - I once watched a monk solo that. He burned a ton of wort pots, but still cool to see. If slightly disheartening because he beat our raid force to the FTE and 30 of us had to just sit and watch one dude kill it.

Zuranthium

07-12-2025, 04:36 PM

The Kunark list should be expanded at some point and also include Old World zones. There's a TON of city MOBs that are a big challenge. But yeah this thread is just for Velious, and the challenges in it are also more difficult on average.

a list of the hardest stuff that can be killed by an SK, or a wizard, etc.

Would be a lot of work to list all that, but the standardized challenge helps to establish it. Always a big question of how much extra help you're going to use to do it though.

Clerics need puppet strings to do anything relevant, but can do some amazing things with that item. Wizards (without puppet cheating) need to be able to reliably land blind with Bio Orb so they don't get summoned. Then from there it's a long process of keeping the target rooted/blinded while meditating for more and more mana to be able to eventually kill it. Shaman are similar in that it's all about time commitment of slowly grinding down the MOB for the things they can possibly do.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-12-2025, 05:28 PM

These dragons are single-pullalble (I was unclear if this meant the poster felt that should change the tier of these mobs, or not) - DSM

Sorry if it wasn't clear. They should be on the tier list, and the tier is fine. I just wanted to show that they fit within Zur's specific pull requirements. They don't need lull, FD, etc. Anybody can just do a face pull and dodge roamers. You do need Sont to be killed or moved to pull Ionat. Sont will agro if you try to face pull Ionat. These days he seems to be killed every week, so that shouldn't be a big issue.

loramin

07-12-2025, 08:04 PM

Moving through each area of the dungeon on your own is the purpose of the challenge, and something a lot of people have never done. Tserrina herself is not much of a challenge.

There's no other mob in the challenge where you have to get even a single key as part of the challenge, let alone seven.

If Tserrina isn't a challenge as a solo, she doesn't belong on the list of hard to solo mobs. Adding non-solo-artist-challenge stuff (ie. key farming) won't make her a challenge.

Zuranthium

07-12-2025, 08:49 PM

I guess it's too easy indeed for a level 60 char, but they key fights can be hard at other levels. Would be nice to have more ways to reward dungeon crawling as part of a solo challenge.

Wild to think about how there could be solo challenges for max level 52 chars, level 40, level 30. I wonder how many people would be interested in those if they got created.

loramin

07-13-2025, 10:52 AM

The Kunark list should be expanded at some point and also include Old World zones.

Would be nice to have more ways to reward dungeon crawling as part of a solo challenge.

I strongly agree with both of these statements (but of course, one thing at a time).

loramin

07-13-2025, 11:54 AM

Wild to think about how there could be solo challenges for max level 52 chars, level 40, level 30. I wonder how many people would be interested in those if they got created.

This is a bit of a tangent, but a (very) long time ago, someone in the forum said they were going to have a soloing contest, with a reward (maybe a fungi, but it's been so long I can't remember).

They never actually wound up holding it, but I got so excited that I prepared anyway. Being a low-level shaman (I was killing forest giants in WW), I tried to come up with a way to make killing such low-level mobs interesting.

My solution? Naked solos! That's right: I killed a forest giant with no gear.

Not sure if the naked solo artist challenge is the next big thing in soloing ... but it did make a low-level solo challenging! ;)

Tewaz

07-13-2025, 02:54 PM

Ah Zuranthium trying to gatekeep with his lull stuff.

Lol.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-13-2025, 03:10 PM

Ah Zuranthium trying to gatekeep with his lull stuff.

Lol.

Yeah I disagree with Zuranthium's lull restrictions as well. A P99 solo challenge needs to focus on how P99 currently works, not how OP wants P99 to work. We have no idea when/if potential lull changes will take effect on P99. The last patch did not incude them.

Zuranthium

07-13-2025, 04:08 PM

It's not how "I want" P99 to work, it's how it factually WILL work when the patch is put in, which the devs have already said will happen at some point. These challenges are something players will be doing until the servers cease to exist. It needs be recognized now that using lull is not going to be possible in the (near) future, so players can save their own time and figure out how to complete the encounters like they will have to do anyway.

loramin

07-13-2025, 06:40 PM

It seems to me that either way, lull issues are an extreme minority. Would it just make sense to table the issue for later (and maybe a future patch will save us from even having to think about it)?

Zuranthium

07-13-2025, 07:04 PM

DeathsSilkyMist

07-13-2025, 07:35 PM

Lull is a huge thing, Enchanters won't be able to do some content on their own anymore when it gets changed. Or at least, it will take them much longer do it and cause many more deaths along the way.

It's a challenge game anyway. Might as well take the challenge now of not using the absurdly non-classic version of lull, and start honing your skills for what you're going to need to do when the patch comes.

There is no reason to limit lull. Let people play the game as-is. Challenges can be updated as patches come in. How P99 is supposed to work in your view isn't really relevant to how P99 actually works today. When you log in to P99 today your desired lull changes are not in there.

Zuranthium

07-13-2025, 08:00 PM

People can already play the game "as-is". That's not the point of doing challenges, and it will cause too many problems otherwise. The rankings of the MOBs has already been sorted with classic Lull in mind.

People who use the non-classic version of Lull don't deserve to be categorized the same. Root nets are already categorized as a "strong item" and the current version of Lull is more powerful than that. The option to use the current version of Lull simply won't exist anyway in the near future, it's not fair to anyone to allow it as a normal thing. People should be aware and adjust accordingly.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-13-2025, 08:05 PM

Duik

07-14-2025, 05:31 AM

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3748540&postcount=20

Already called it.

Goregasmic

07-14-2025, 07:46 AM

People who use the non-classic version of Lull don't deserve to be categorized the same. Root nets are already categorized as a "strong item" and the current version of Lull is more powerful than that. The option to use the current version of Lull simply won't exist anyway in the near future, it's not fair to anyone to allow it as a normal thing. People should be aware and adjust accordingly.

This is ridiculous. Chanters who lulled for the previous challenge used all the tools at their disposal. It might have allowed for more difficult kills but they were all on the same footing. Resist rates are too low on P99 anyway so we might as well disqualify casters and hybrids if they dare casting.

A lot of the first SAC kills can still be done using reverse charms, mez/root and blurs but a lot of those kills will also be abandonned because I'm not sure people will fight their entire way through sebilis for a single attempt considering people put dozens of attempts on some targets.

If you make too many dumb rules and caveats people won't revive a challenge that's been dead for a decade.

Duik

07-14-2025, 08:40 AM

It seems to me that either way, lull issues are an extreme minority. Would it just make sense to table the issue for later (and maybe a future patch will save us from even having to think about it)?

I only come here for the lullz.

Tewaz

07-14-2025, 12:13 PM

kjs86z2

07-14-2025, 12:15 PM

DeathsSilkyMist

07-14-2025, 12:20 PM

All the fake restrictions by Zuranthium do is make an attempt take longer. It's something that is a complete non factor but he's adding it for his own personal pleasure.

Can you not lull and fight your way to a mob? Sure. Can you make your charisma 50 to get more crit resists so you have to gate or cap and start over? Sure.

All it does is waste time. I doubt Z even plays on this server anymore but he spends all his time in the forums arguing to add more shit that makes the server more annoying to play. It's probably the lamest thing I've ever seen from a player.

Yeah I am not sure why he is trying to spearhead this effort based on his other comments recently:

It sounds like I shouldn't waste years of my life gearing another character on a dead end game, to do something that was solved long ago. It's not even possible to obtain BIS Monk equip right now, and the fight can already be calculated outside the game to determine if it's realistic or not.

I have more experience with this game than you do and far more skill as a gamer. Have you ever won tournaments and actual money? Ever ranked high globally at an actual competitive thing? No, you haven't. I don't need to log on and do anything. I've already played more than enough EQ since 1999. It's not the role of a retired athlete to spend their time on the field. They move onto coaching, officiating, or professional analysis to impart their expertise.

Zuranthium's best solo kill is apparently a Cliff Golem on a Druid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqNfDrTpG_Q

He hasn't done any Velious Solo Challenge content that I am aware of. Yet he wants to suddenly do a guide on it.

loramin

07-14-2025, 12:28 PM

Zura might be new to this "trying to build consensus" thing, but at least he's trying. If no one tries, the wiki doesn't get a Solo Artist Challenge page with Velious mobs on it.

What I think everyone (Zura included) should ask themselves is not "what do I want to be the standards?", but "what can we all agree on as standards (even if it means living with some minor stuff I disagree with)?"

DeathsSilkyMist

07-14-2025, 12:31 PM

Zura might be new to this "trying to build consensus" thing, but at least he's trying. If no one tries, the wiki doesn't get a Solo Artist Challenge page with Velious mobs on it.

At this point people just need to make their own challenges and promote them. The "comminity" solo artist challenge page isn't very useful anymore, as the community is not allowed to participate in it. In essence it is "Zuranthium and Loramin's solo challenge", using the pretense of a community effort.

Crede

07-14-2025, 12:48 PM

At this point people just need to make their own challenges and promote them. The "comminity" solo artist challenge page isn't very useful anymore, as the community is not allowed to participate in it. In essence it is "Zuranthium and Loramin's solo challenge", using the pretense of a community effort.

And the current one is Loraen's & his A'team buddies coming up with one in 2012 kunark claiming god tier while posting little to no videos.

So yea, it's probably better to just come up with your own as the community will likely not agree on one unless we have some official solo artist council that can represent the community and can vote on the evolution of the SAC similar to how any set of rules is done in any sport

loramin

07-14-2025, 01:02 PM

And the current one is Loraen's & his A'team buddies coming up with one in 2012 kunark claiming god tier while posting little to no videos.

This feels like an unfair criticism, since the community in general wasn't recording videos back then. Nevertheless, the original Solo Artist thread (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80165) is full of documented solo attempts ... they were just documented with screenshots.

Check the link: there's an attempt with a screenshot on page 2, two more on page 3, another on 4, another on 5, and so on. In fact, the thread has documented attempts throughout. It's not like all the soloers back then were photoshopping screenshots to claim soloes they never did ... it's just that screenshots seemed like perfectly ok proof for a completely fun and uncompetitive self-motivated challenge.

Zuranthium

07-14-2025, 02:57 PM

DSM can you stop ruining yet another thread with your incorrect spam. I've done far more solo/duo content than you have. Even if the most I had ever done was a cliff golem with a druid, that's still more impressive than anything you've shown.

It's something that is a complete non factor but he's adding it for his own personal pleasure. All it does is waste time.

You always have a chip on your shoulder about people bringing classic mechanics to light. The lull changes are coming and nothing you say is going to stop it. This is absolutely not a "non-factor".

The entirety of doing challenges is mainly just a measure of time expenditure. It's all a "waste of time", unless you enjoy completing the challenge. Given that you don't seem to care about classic EQ in the first place, why are you even posting here?

DeathsSilkyMist

07-14-2025, 03:07 PM

DSM can you stop ruining yet another thread with your incorrect spam. I've done far more solo/duo content than you have. Even if the most I had ever done was a cliff golem with a druid, that's still more impressive than anything you've shown.

This is the attitude that prevents you from actually making a solo challenge people will agree with. You are all talk, no show. Everybody else sucks except for Zuranthium, and Zuranthium doesn't have to prove it.

Other readers see this and take note. You haven't shown any velious solo challenge videos. I have.

Zuranthium

07-14-2025, 03:28 PM

You haven't shown any velious solo challenge videos. I have.

So what? Thousands of people have done far more than you ever have. Most people just don't record themselves. There's not anything inherently different about killing something in Velious either, as compared to killing an equally difficult NPC elsewhere in the game world. Your videos show nothing special whatsoever. Everyone understands how to slow+torpor tank something on a Shaman and others do it with more efficiency than you and have killed much harder things than you.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-14-2025, 03:40 PM

So what? Thousands of people have done far more than you ever have. Most people just don't record themselves. There's not anything inherently different about killing something in Velious either, as compared to killing an equally difficult NPC elsewhere in the game world. Your videos show nothing special whatsoever. Everyone understands how to slow+torpor tank something on a Shaman and others do it with more efficiency than you and have killed much harder things than you.

As I keep saying, your attitude doesn't help you convince anyone.

Why would anyone want to do your challenge when you will just come back and say they suck every time? That it's all been done before and better (without proof)? You already discouraged Sscalez from posting more videos of challenges.

Zuranthium

07-14-2025, 04:54 PM

I've never told anyone they suck for posting a video. This thread is not a place for your for deranged spamming. The purpose of the thread is to get input about the specifics of Velious MOBs. If you have nothing to contribute about the stats and engagement difficulty of high level Velious MOBs, do not post here.

I've now gone through and done a categorization of every high difficulty MOB in Velious. This was exhausting, especially having to type it all out in two different formats (one for the forum and one for the wiki).

Here are my current thoughts about the MOBs in KAEL DRAKKEL:

SOLO MASTER (29) : Adjutant Velsharek (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Velsharek) , Adjutant Thyek (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Thyek) , Adjutant Strongaxe (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Strongaxe) , Adjutant Stormkeeper (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Stormkeeper) , Adjutant Khellendor (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Khellendor) , Adjutant Jharll (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Jharll) , Adjutant Hoggren (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Hoggren) , Adjutant Hekrandor (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Hekrandor) , Adjutant Frinvan (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Frivan) , Adjutant Frinevrn (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Frinevrn) , Adjutant Droggren (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Doroggren) , Adjutant Derkan (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Derkan) , Adjutant Daggeruk (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Daggeruk) , Adjutant Cryyrn (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Cryyrn) , Adjutant Brunkin (https://wiki.project1999.com/Adjutant_Brunkin) , A cleric of Vallon Zek (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_cleric_of_Vallon_Zek) , Vealok the Angry (https://wiki.project1999.com/Vealok_the_Angry) , Noble Helssen (https://wiki.project1999.com/Nobel_Helssen) , Bjrakor the Cold (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bjrakor_the_Cold) , A cleric of Tallon Zek (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_cleric_of_Tallon_Zek) , Veteran Yllhaydm (https://wiki.project1999.com/Veteran_Yllhaydm) , Veteran Surlren (https://wiki.project1999.com/Veteran_Surlren) , Veteran Skeldek (https://wiki.project1999.com/Veteran_Skeldek) , Veteran Sjrelt (https://wiki.project1999.com/Veteran_Sjrelt) , Veteran Mjrlind (https://wiki.project1999.com/Veteran_Mjrlind) , Veteran Kltrem (https://wiki.project1999.com/Veteran_Kltrem) , Veteran Icecaller (https://wiki.project1999.com/Veteran_Icecaller) , Veteran Eiyloren (https://wiki.project1999.com/Veteran_Eiyloren) , A visiting noble (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_visiting_nobel)

SOLO GRANDMASTER (19) : Captain Bvellos (https://wiki.project1999.com/Captain_Bvellos) , Armor of Zek (https://wiki.project1999.com/Armor_of_Zek), Sentinel Weldren (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Weldren) , Sentinel Thurdiel (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Thurdiel) , Sentinel Harzok (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Harzok) , Sentinel Drakeslayer (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Drakeslayer) , Kyenka (https://wiki.project1999.com/Kyenka) , Kallis Stormcaller (https://wiki.project1999.com/Kallis_Stormcaller) , Semkak Prophet of Vallon (https://wiki.project1999.com/Semkak_Prophet_of_Vallon) , Gkrean Prophet of Tallon (https://wiki.project1999.com/Gkrean_Prophet_of_Tallon) , Weyrevar Bluehammer (https://wiki.project1999.com/Weyrevar_Bluehammer) , Wevek Redforge (https://wiki.project1999.com/Wevek_Redforge) , Svekk Fangbinder (https://wiki.project1999.com/Svekk_Fangbinder) , Pollos Stormkeeper (https://wiki.project1999.com/Pollos_Stormkeeper) , Kevelak Whitefang (https://wiki.project1999.com/Kevelak_Whitefang) , Kellek Felhammer (https://wiki.project1999.com/Kellek_Felhammer) , Graggaz Fleshflayer (https://wiki.project1999.com/Graggaz_Fleshflayer) , Bjorak Stonefist (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bjorak_Stonefist) , A temple guardian (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_temple_guardian)

SOLO GOD (15) : Yetarr (https://wiki.project1999.com/Yetarr) , A Protector of Zek (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Protector_of_Zek) , Fjokar Frozenshard (https://wiki.project1999.com/Fjokar_Frozenshard) , Vkaak (https://wiki.project1999.com/Vkaak), Keldor Dek'Torek (https://wiki.project1999.com/Keldor_Dek%60Torek) , Sentinel Vellharn (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Vellharn) , Sentinel Thunderfist (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Thunderfist) , Sentinel Sunderdrake (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Sunderdrake) , Sentinel Styiern (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Styiern), Sentinel Stonetrader (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Stonetrader) , Sentinel Sellov (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Sellov), Sentinel Rethdeyn (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Rethdeyn), Sentinel Fleshflayer (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Fleshflayer) , Sentinel Bvellor (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Bvellor) , Sentinel Brajnor (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Brajnor)

DUO GOD (12) : Dlammaz Stormslayer (https://wiki.project1999.com/Dlammaz_Stormslayer), Vkjen Thunderslayer (https://wiki.project1999.com/Vkjen_Thunderslayer), Velden Dragonbane (https://wiki.project1999.com/Velden_Dragonbane) , Sentinel Othkel (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Othkel), Sentinel Dragonbane (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel_Dragonbane), Sentinel Demek (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sentinel Demek[/url) , Klraggek the Slayer (https://wiki.project1999.com/Klraggek_the_Slayer), Irrek Bloodfist (https://wiki.project1999.com/Irrek_Bloodfist), Ymik (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ymik), Weyen Stonetrader (https://wiki.project1999.com/Weyen_Stonetrader), Bendad the Trader (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bendad_the_Trader), A Guardian of Zek (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Guardian_of_Zek)

DeathsSilkyMist

07-14-2025, 05:02 PM

I've never told anyone they suck for posting a video.

This simply isn't true. Two quick examples:

Thousands of people have done far more than you ever have...your videos show nothing special whatsoever..

You've not killed anything especially challenging on your youtube channel. You can't even get more than a 100 feet into Sebilis on your SK without dying. A druid killing a cliff golem is a bigger achievement than anything you've shown, since cliff golem is the highest tier you've done and you did with a shaman (a much more powerful class).

If Zuranthium thinks an Ionat kill is "nothing special", just imagine what he will say about your videos for easier kills. Just look at Zuranthium lying about my SK video.

Oh, and this thread where you attacked Sscalez's solo challenge video and trolled the wiki, to the point where he doesn't want to post anymore:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441516

And then you made a Star Trek/Everquest/Game of Thrones fan fic where you violently torture Sscalez because he disagrees with you:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442054

You cannot hide your bad behavior. Expect this kind of harassment from Zuranthium whenever you show off your videos here or whereever his challenge ends up.

Tewaz

07-14-2025, 05:15 PM

This server isn't classic. 10 years of Velious isn't classic. Scroll out 3rd person, rooted dragons, life tap, item recharge, tab target, yada, yada, yada. It's all not classic.

And I still like it. Adding things to the server to try to actively make it more annoying to play are not worth it at this point. If you want to make the fix for your future super duper classic then do it. I probably won't play it.

Your vision will just lead to less players and an empty server with terrible channeling and pacify resists and no players would be...also not classic.

Good luck!

Zuranthium

07-14-2025, 05:25 PM

It has nothing to do with "my vision", Trollwaz. Those are the factual classic EQ mechanics and they are acknowledged by devs as something that will be implemented.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-14-2025, 05:33 PM

It has nothing to do with "my vision", Trollwaz. Those are the factual classic EQ mechanics and they are acknowledged by devs as something that will be implemented.

Expect more wonderful responses like this when posting in this thread.

This thread is not a place for your for deranged spamming. The purpose of the thread is to get input about the specifics of Velious MOBs. If you have nothing to contribute about the stats and engagement difficulty of high level Velious MOBs, do not post here.

Zuranthium insists that his thread stays on topic, right after he tag teamed with Samoht to ruin Sscalez's thread. He is fine with ruining other people's threads:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441516

loramin

07-14-2025, 05:35 PM

Zura: why pick fights for no reason? I mean, if your goal is to "win the forum", don't let me stop you: keep arguing. But if your goal is to build consensus for a Velious list, having unnecessary arguments just seems like self-sabotage.

IMHO there is no reason to fight over the future of anything now: we have plenty to fight about already in the present ;) Quite literally, all fights over the future do is block progress on achieving anything in the present.

Or, to put it another way ... what terrible thing would happen if you stopped fighting everyone about Lull now, and just said "we can deal with it when the Lull changes happen"? Because the terrible thing that could happen if you don't is that we never reach consensus on soloing Velious mobs.

Zuranthium

07-14-2025, 05:59 PM

Or, to put it another way ... what terrible thing would happen if you stopped fighting everyone about Lull now, and just said "we can deal with it when the Lull changes happen"?

The terrible thing that would happen is people would be getting categorized differently in the future and be upset about it. The tiers for a lot of MOBs would also need to be changed. A big headache.

It needs to be recognized now that using Lull is the same as getting pull help. Those spells will not work in the near future. The challenge is designed to be used for the entire existence of the server's lifetime. It's already been 10 years of no Velious challenge existing. Enchanters can deal with not being able to use Lull for this challenge. That's already what they're going to have to do. Need to face it now.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-14-2025, 06:05 PM

The terrible thing that would happen is people would be getting categorized differently in the future and be upset about it. The tiers for a lot of MOBs would also need to be changed. A big headache.

It needs to be recognized now that using Lull is the same as getting pull help. Those spells will not work in the near future. The challenge is designed to be used for the entire existence of the server's lifetime. It's already been 10 years of no Velious challenge existing. Enchanters can deal with not being able to use Lull for this challenge. That's already what they're going to have to do. Need to face it now.

I find it mind boggling that Zuranthium is worried about people being upset with regards to being categorized differently.

Zuranthium and Samoht literally trolled Sscalez thread into oblivion by trying to change a 10+ year old categorized system to lower Sscalez's category, and ruined everybody else's categories in the process.

Zuranthium didn't care how Sscalez felt:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441516

Zuranthium even made a Star Trek/Everquest/Game of Thrones fan fic where Sscalez is violently tortured:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442054

I don't see any empathy here.

loramin

07-14-2025, 08:15 PM

The terrible thing that would happen is people would be getting categorized differently in the future and be upset about it. The tiers for a lot of MOBs would also need to be changed. A big headache.

But would they really get upset? Or would they just have the conversation you're trying to force now, under better circumstances?

It needs to be recognized now that using Lull is the same as getting pull help. Those spells will not work in the near future. The challenge is designed to be used for the entire existence of the server's lifetime. It's already been 10 years of no Velious challenge existing. Enchanters can deal with not being able to use Lull for this challenge. That's already what they're going to have to do. Need to face it now.

Pulling rules have always been a part of the challenge; I'm not suggesting that change.

I'm just saying, why force fights that block your goals now, when you can delay those fights? Doing so would let you build consensus on everything else in the challenge first.

When the patch finally does come, you could change things based on the way patch actually changes Lull, instead of basing it on everyone's imagination of how it will be, based on the bug report. (And, BTW, when everyone has to imagine things, it's a whole lot harder to reach a consensus, because everyone imagines things differently.)

Plus, best of all, there would just be less fighting, because if you wait until the patch, 100% of the community would agree with you that it's time to worry about that problem.

Zuranthium

07-14-2025, 09:17 PM

Does anyone know if these have linked aggro, I can't remember:

YOU (https://wiki.project1999.com/YOU) , SHALL (https://wiki.project1999.com/SHALL) , NOT (https://wiki.project1999.com/NOT) , PASS (https://wiki.project1999.com/PASS)

If they social, it's a perfect example of something that's currently trivial most of the time when using non-classic lull, but will become truly challenging when the patch is implemented.

loramin

07-14-2025, 09:37 PM

Not disputing that. I'm just questioning whether it's more productive to fight that battle today or tomorrow?

Duik

07-14-2025, 09:48 PM

The correct answer is tomorrow.
Zeds answer is full of feelz and emoticons (that i cant render properly) so he'd say. Do it, do it now.

Tewaz

07-14-2025, 11:14 PM

Calling me a troll is hilarious.

Zuranthium

07-14-2025, 11:24 PM

Calling me a troll is hilarious.

You've now made 4 posts in a thread that is about discussing the specifics of Velious MOBs/locations, and contributed 0 information to the thread.

I'm just questioning whether it's more productive to fight that battle today or tomorrow?

It's more productive now, so everything doesn't need to be changed in the future. I've already put too much time into putting all of this together and there's still more work to do with getting precise info about some more of the spawns and figuring out exactly how many MOBs should be killed per zone/tier. It's a challenge game anyway; what's interesting about starting all this up and continuing to use the cheat version of lull to do everything? People have already been doing that for 16 years on p99 and we know it's getting changed. Allowing it here would be no different than allowing an exploit.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-14-2025, 11:43 PM

You've now made 4 posts in a thread that is about discussing the specifics of Velious MOBs/locations, and contributed 0 information to the thread.

People haven't forgotten the thread you recently trolled regarding solo challenges, or the fan fic you made where Sscalez is violently tortured. I'd certainly give you a second chance if you actually apologize and admit you were wrong for attacking Sscalez to the point where he didn't want to post here anymore.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441516

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442054

It's more productive now, so everything doesn't need to be changed in the future. I've already put too much time into putting all of this together and there's still more work to do with getting precise info about some more of the spawns and figuring out exactly how many MOBs should be killed per zone/tier. It's a challenge game anyway; what's interesting about starting all this up and continuing to use the cheat version of lull to do everything? People have already been doing that for 16 years on p99 and we know it's getting changed. Allowing it here would be no different than allowing an exploit.

The reality is most people disagree with you on lulls. If nobody follows your challenge, all of your work is wasted. That is less efficient.

loramin

07-15-2025, 03:15 PM

It's more productive now, so everything doesn't need to be changed in the future.

More productive for you. It's clearly not for anyone else.

When this started I thought you were trying to build community consensus, but it seems that (like another poster here) your real goal is just to impose your opinions on others.

It's too bad, as this community could really use consensus builders. :(

DeathsSilkyMist

07-15-2025, 03:33 PM

More productive for you. It's clearly not for anyone else.

When this started I thought you were trying to build community consensus, but it seems that (like another poster here) your real goal is just to impose your opinions on others.

It's too bad, as this community could really use consensus builders. :(

Loramin finally realized that he has been backing a troll (Zuranthium) the entire time. Loramin abused his admin powers to help this troll (Zuranthium), instead of simply suspending Zuranthium for abusing the wiki. We tried to tell him for 100+ pages that Zuranthium was a troll, and the evidence was quite clear:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441516

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442054

It's funny because Loramin did kind of admit they were trolls:

2) Trolls - these people disagree for illogical reasons. They can't be convinced to change their opinion, because they don't actually believe in it.

Now both Samo and Zura probably fell into category #2 at some point in this thread (I'm too lazy to go back and find examples, but I think I remember it).

But he also accidentally admits that he didn't really read the full thread, so he didn't even have a clear picture of what was happening when he decided to take their side and abuse his admin powers.

You used a known exploit to kill the dragons in both of these videos. Please stop posting them as any sort of evidence other than you being completely disingenuous in any discussion on these forums.

Samoht is simply grasping at straws, and has no evidence he has done these kills himself. We would all love to see some evidence to back up his trolling, but he has yet to produce any.

A word of warning. When doing Zuranthium/Samoht/Loramin's solo challenge from this thread (it isn't a community effort), expect more posts like this. Similar to the thread linked above, posters like Zuranthium and Samoht simply tear other people down, and discourage people from doing these challenges.

zelld52

07-15-2025, 03:35 PM

fuckin stop guys, every forum post you guys enter turns into a back and forth until the original topic gets lost. take a break from forums ffs

Samoht

07-15-2025, 03:35 PM

https://youtu.be/igpbLuNe0ls?feature=shared - Bravatar solo pull and kill on a Shaman, self buff only.

https://youtu.be/oPxeOVuX0G8?feature=shared - Ionat solo pull and kill on a shaman, self buff only.

You used a known exploit to kill the dragons in both of these videos. Please stop posting them as any sort of evidence other than you being completely disingenuous in any discussion on these forums.

Samoht

07-15-2025, 04:32 PM

Samoht is simply grasping at straws, and has no evidence he has done these kills himself. We would all love to see some evidence to back up his trolling, but he has yet to produce any.

I noticed that you can't even address the accusation head on. You're waffling. You utilized the same known exploit in both videos -- the same videos you continuously post of "evidence" that you're able to kill an easy 6 neck dragon or a shitty 4 neck dragon. You haven't killed them legitimately. You cheated. You lack credibility. I didn't come here making any claim that I have killed them solo, so your argument that I haven't posted videos is another straw man. You're arguing against your own made up argument -- moving the goal posts. It's disingenuous, just like any other post you make. It's more evidence that you don't even have an argument to make. Your kills don't even count. You're so full of shit.

Expect more double posts like this from Samoht when people try to post their accomplishments in this thread or others.

Another disingenuous argument from DSM. He's intentionally editing previous posts instead of making new ones so that he can accuse people of double posting. Notice he still has not addressed the accusation at hand?

Samoht probably wants the last word. We'll see if he posts again. Will it be single? Double? Triple?

Another edit to talk about me double posting, but still nothing to say about how he used a known exploit in his kill videos. Zero credibility.

Just in case he's too dumb to find it. (https://project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3566274&postcount=4)

DeathsSilkyMist

07-15-2025, 04:39 PM

I noticed that you can't even address the accusation head on. You're waffling. You utilized the same known exploit in both videos -- the same videos you continuously post of "evidence" that you're able to kill an easy 6 neck dragon or a shitty 4 neck dragon. You haven't killed them legitimately. You cheated. You lack credibility. I didn't come here making any claim that I have killed them solo, so your argument that I haven't posted videos is another straw man. You're arguing against your own made up argument -- moving the goal posts. It's disingenuous, just like any other post you make. It's more evidence that you don't even have an argument to make. Your kills don't even count. You're so full of shit.

Expect more double posts like this from Samoht when people try to post their accomplishments in this thread or others.

Expect more 100+ page threads and fan fics about torturing posters from Samoht and Zuranthium as well:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441516

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442054

It is unfortunate I have to give these warnings. Samoht, Zuranthium, and Loramin could apologize at any time. I am sure people (including myself) would give them a second chance.

Samoht probably wants the last word. We'll see if he posts again. Will it be single? Double? Triple?

Hopefully Samoht has realized by now this is an attempt to stop him from posting more nonsense. We have confirmed evidence he will keep going based on the thread linked above.

People can read that thread, look at my DPS calculator, look at my youtube channel, etc., and decide who is more credible. He isn't helping himself here, so I am trying to get him to stop embarassing himself.

Zuranthium

07-15-2025, 05:09 PM

You used a known exploit to kill the dragons in both of these videos. Please stop posting them as any sort of evidence other than you being completely disingenuous in any discussion on these forums.

People need to not be posting in this thread if they aren't going to be contributing relevant information and opinions on difficulty levels. Maybe I should start a discord channel instead, so DSM can't ruin the discussion as usual. I would prefer to use the forum though, so everyone can see and contribute.

What you bring up about the water trick to avoid AoE's is a worthwhile discussion. It's not something that is ever going to get changed, so I don't feel strongly about trying to disallow it. The current tiers for the western wastes dragons reflects using the water trick. If enough people do feel strongly about wanting to disallow it, then most of those dragons will need to be bumped up to a higher tier.

I'm also still waiting for feedback about these Plane of Mischief MOBs - https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3749260&postcount=61 - and all of the MOBs in Kael that I posted about a couple pages ago. After these three topics are addressed we can move on to discussing other zones.

shovelquest

07-15-2025, 05:14 PM

The highest rank you should get is

[SSSSS+++++] Triod by Zuranium, DSM & Samhot

Coordinating that group would require the most advanced group/raid leadership and strategy possible.

Samoht

07-15-2025, 05:15 PM

The highest rank you should get is

[SSSSS+++++] Triod by Zuranium, DSM & Samhot

Coordinating that group would require the most advanced group/raid leadership and strategy possible.

I think using the Sscalez standard that you could consider that as a solo for me because I'd be doing all the heavy lifting and all they would be able to do is give me buffs.

Danth

07-15-2025, 05:25 PM

Watering the WW dragons is pretty lame but the P99 admins allow it. Can't fairly call it an 'exploit' when it was reported directly to the head admins in 2015 and it's still present in 2025 without so much as a comment, let alone any changes. Maybe -1 to a watered score or some such.

I view our implementation of the lull line in much the same light: Nilbog agreed it was OP way back in 2009 and here we are 15+ years later with lull still OP. Charm, channeling, the list goes on. There's enough "potentially to-be fixed" stuff on P99 that I don't feel it's worth getting bogged down in it. Easier to simply play the game as it exists in front of us and if something changes later, then it changes. It's supposed to be a fun series of solo/duo/etc tasks, not really a competition and certainly not for any tangible reward beyond personal satisfaction.

I haven't done enough POM to be able to comment on it usefully. Just a few trips in 2017....didn't like it much.

Samoht

07-15-2025, 05:35 PM

Watering the WW dragons is pretty lame but the P99 admins allow it.

No, they don't. (https://project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3566274&postcount=4)

My last dragon video was from 2022. My Ionat video is from 2021. That post is from 2023. So it's not relevant anyway. Personally I haven't really seen or heard of anyone being summoned by a GM for it, but they can certainly correct me in this thread if I am wrong.

There's a reason you pulled both to the exact same spot. There's a reason you positioned them both exactly the same way. You know what you were doing. You knew you were exploiting the water LOS to avoid taking the breath damage (aka Dragon Drowning). These kills are not legit and they never have been.

Right now myself, Zuranthium, and Danth disagree it seems.

Check again. Seems you're mistaken.

So far you have zero.

We both do since yours weren't legit.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-15-2025, 05:39 PM

No, they don't. (https://project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3566274&postcount=4)

My last dragon video was from 2022. My Ionat video is from 2021. That post is from 2023. So it's not relevant anyway. Personally I haven't really seen or heard of anyone being summoned by a GM for it, but they can certainly correct me in this thread if I am wrong.

These kills are not legit and they never have been.

Right now myself, Zuranthium, and Danth disagree it seems.

You can keep trying to attack other people's kills if you wish. It isn't incentivising people to do solo challenges here or anyhwere else on these forums. You can post your solo challenge kills at any time. So far you have zero. You are very quick to deal out judgement, but are so shy about showing off your own kills. I wonder why that is? Unlike yourself, I won't simply attack your video. You don't have to be afraid to post videos.

Danth

07-15-2025, 05:44 PM

Thanks for the update Samoht. I wasn't around here much in '23 to notice it. Seems like admin attitudes are gradually changing. I think I was the first person to post it in the private forum section back in '15--one of the first, anyway--so I'm pleased they're finally coming around.

bcbrown

07-15-2025, 05:51 PM

My last dragon video was from 2022. My Ionat video is from 2021. That post is from 2023. So it's not relevant anyway. Personally I haven't really seen or heard of anyone being summoned by a GM for it, but they can certainly correct me in this thread if I am wrong.

Guide, not GM, but they came out and told us to knock it off. So now we don't fight dragons in the water.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-15-2025, 05:52 PM

We both [have zero kills] since yours weren't legit.

This is incorrect, even if those videos were disqualified.

I also have a Cliff Golem, Ancient Wurm, and King Tranix kill (fully popped room, no lulls or FD). All of these were self buffed, self pulled, no consumables. You have no way to argue they weren't solo:

https://youtu.be/KPs_VghU-v4?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/4Rzw3wLWEsM?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/umuVBewCNgY?feature=shared

Three for me and Zero for you. You can post any evidence at any time. But we both know you won't.

Four kills if we end up counting Ice Burrowers. That was also self buffed, self pulled, no consumables:

https://youtu.be/5fsvt1xfuqY?feature=shared

These are just the recorded kills obviously. I don't record every kill I do.

There is no reason for my WW Dragon videos to be disqualified.

https://project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3566274&postcount=4

The post above was created after my videos were made. This post is from 2023, and my last WW Dragon video is from 2022. My Ionat video is from 2021. Rules change on the server over time. I can't predict the future.

loramin

07-15-2025, 06:10 PM

I think it's worth noting that the original solo artist challenge also involved a nerf, only back then it was invis pulling:

Pull help is meant to compensate for removal of invis pulls; it doesn't seem fair to penalize people who started on the challenge afterwards. Pull help is only available for Solo God/Duo GM ranks and up, mainly because many of those would be obviously impossible otherwise.

In other words, Invis pulling was allowed, and mobs were added to the guide based on it. Then the staff changed things ... and it didn't destroy the challenge!

To the contrary, Loraen simply changed the rules after it happened, in a pragmatic/sensible way. It certainly seems to me any future version of the challenge can similarly survive any changes (to Lull or anything else).

bcbrown

07-15-2025, 06:32 PM

It certainly seems to me any future version of the challenge can similarly survive any changes (to Lull or anything else).

Seems simple enough to postpone any discussion of lull changes until any nerf actually happens. If it ever does happen, then a new label/category of pre- and post- lull nerf is a straightfoward update. Similarly, any WW dragons fought in the water can be marked with a label, as that is easier than fighting on land.

Trying to talk now about a potential lull nerf that may not arrive for years is just an obstacle to consensus.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-15-2025, 06:35 PM

Trying to talk now about a potential lull nerf that may not arrive for years is just an obstacle to consensus.

Agreed. Everyone in the thread except for Zuranthium seems to agree with this point. We should probably just move forward without Zuranthium's lull restrictions, unless we suddenly get an influx of posters supporting it.

Zuranthium

07-15-2025, 07:27 PM

If it ever does happen, then a new label/category of pre- and post- lull nerf is a straightfoward update.

It's not straightforward at all. The difficulty level of the challenges is set with classic Lull taken into consideration. The exact same as they are also set with the expectation of people not using Puppet Strings or getting pull help. If people use those things it doesn't count as a valid kill for obtaining the challenge title (but any videos of doing God tier kills will still be added to the database, to allow people to showcase that kind of gameplay if they want to).

Using the cheat version of Lull is the same as getting pull help. There's no reason to mark it differently, especially when one the biggest complaints about the whole challenge concept has been how unfair it is that Enchanters have such a big advantage. The challenges would be devalued and have less variety available if allowing that totally broken, non-classic thing. There isn't any kind of unpreventable game mechanic that forces it to be included for the challenge. It's not like AC being coded incorrectly or something. It's just a spell that people are perfectly capable of not casting.

In other words, Invis pulling was allowed, and mobs were added to the guide based on it. Then the staff changed things ... and it didn't destroy the challenge!

It did destroy the challenge (one of the reasons). The tiers of the MOBs were never changed and people had to abuse Puppet Strings instead (they already had to in many cases with the way things were designed), leading to almost nobody wanting to participate. The few people who bothered to try and get a top rank back then really aren't valid, compared to doing the challenges without the cheats. Thankfully since there were so few, and it happened so long ago, it doesn't merit an argument about retroactively stripping their titles. But that situation needs to be prevented going forward. Lull is the biggest fundamentally incorrect thing in the game. There may be tweaks to the resists of other spells in the future, but it won't change the ability to actually use them. They'll still have the same amount of potential effectiveness, given enough luck, whereas Lull will simply not work.

Duik

07-16-2025, 06:45 AM

Circus is back in town boys.

Tewaz

07-16-2025, 10:25 AM

In 10 years the lull resist will be implemented on a dead server with Zuranthium boldly entering SG solo to fight a mob he has zero chance of defeating because of the classic changes he dug up.

He’ll die in his first pacify attempt, ask if anyone has a rez available in the now global OOC, then sadly return to the forums to fight DSM in a new thread.

“The real SAC was getting a classic server finally made* and I’d say in a solo GM Furry Gold Medal finalist” he whispers as he googles the next old school RPG to go shit all over.

*Classic EverQuest except lifetap, item recharge costs, dragon mobility, boxing, IP lockouts, dragon HP pools, and many other things that are much more important than charm duration.

Goregasmic

07-16-2025, 11:33 AM

It did destroy the challenge (one of the reasons). The tiers of the MOBs were never changed and people had to abuse Puppet Strings instead (they already had to in many cases with the way things were designed), leading to almost nobody wanting to participate. The few people who bothered to try and get a top rank back then really aren't valid, compared to doing the challenges without the cheats. Thankfully since there were so few, and it happened so long ago, it doesn't merit an argument about retroactively stripping their titles. But that situation needs to be prevented going forward. Lull is the biggest fundamentally incorrect thing in the game. There may be tweaks to the resists of other spells in the future, but it won't change the ability to actually use them. They'll still have the same amount of potential effectiveness, given enough luck, whereas Lull will simply not work.

The real problem is when you reach disciple you're starting to deal with mobs that summon which is a huge problem for a couple classes that don't have pet or could otherwise cheese it. This is most likely why the challenge died, it is literally the first tier of the challenge and like half of the classes can't handle it even if the mob was in an empty room.

Then you get to master and most strong melees will fall off the train due to lack of scaling. Then most mobs being indoors, live and guarded further cripples the ability for most classes to tackle them.

The rampant use of puppet strings AND even wand of allure, or druids being powerless unless there's an animal in the zone should have tipped you off that charmed pet is basically the cornerstone of the challenge and not anything else.

... and then you're making it worse by taking tools away from people. Seems to me you're more motivated to push your vendetta against certain mechanics than making a challenge that's fair for everyone in a game that largely tries to make soloing that kind of content impossible. In the end it seems like classes are so unbalanced you'll never successfully create a fair challenge for everyone unless it is class based but then it basically become a gear/rng contest at higher levels. Not even sure we have the server pop to keep this alive for long anyway.

Samoht

07-16-2025, 12:11 PM

The real problem is when you reach disciple you're starting to deal with mobs that summon which is a huge problem for a couple classes that don't have pet or could otherwise cheese it. This is most likely why the challenge died, it is literally the first tier of the challenge and like half of the classes can't handle it even if the mob was in an empty room.

Then you get to master and most strong melees will fall off the train due to lack of scaling. Then most mobs being indoors, live and guarded further cripples the ability for most classes to tackle them.

The rampant use of puppet strings AND even wand of allure, or druids being powerless unless there's an animal in the zone should have tipped you off that charmed pet is basically the cornerstone of the challenge and not anything else.

... and then you're making it worse by taking tools away from people. Seems to me you're more motivated to push your vendetta against certain mechanics than making a challenge that's fair for everyone in a game that largely tries to make soloing that kind of content impossible. In the end it seems like classes are so unbalanced you'll never successfully create a fair challenge for everyone unless it is class based but then it basically become a gear/rng contest at higher levels. Not even sure we have the server pop to keep this alive for long anyway.

Good point bringing up that most can’t be soloed. The name solo artists challenge is actually incorrect when you review the contents. It is actually the solo or duo artist challenge.

zelld52

07-16-2025, 12:18 PM

I havent seen many people soloing WW dragons since they disallowed the exploit of tanking them in the water - the 6 necks, anyway

Goregasmic

07-16-2025, 01:04 PM

I havent seen many people soloing WW dragons since they disallowed the exploit of tanking them in the water - the 6 necks, anyway

Never done them yet but there's a couple 4s that seem not too hard but the 5s AEs seem brutal on mobs with that much HP.

Zuranthium

07-16-2025, 04:04 PM

We'll need to get an official confirmation on if it's allowed or not, and then discuss from there. Water jumping to stop water-only MOBs from being able to keep attacking is another thing everyone uses, but I can't see that being considered punishable.

[pacify attempt, rooted dragons, boxing, IP lockouts]

What are you talking about "pacify attempt"? That spell will simply not work at all in any area of high level MOBs. The other things you wrote are irrelevant to solo challenges. You've now made 5 posts with 0 contribution.

This is most likely why the old challenge died, it was literally the first tier of the challenge and like half of the classes can't handle it

That's not how it's designed here. By including a wide variety of MOBs and accounting for the logistics of fighting in an area, without using pull help and cheat items, it allows many more possible paths. God tier rank (but not individual kills) will of course still be out of reach for most classes but that's okay, because at the very upper end we're trying to see the peak of what someone can do solo regardless of class.

If non-classic lull is allowed then it forces everything to be centered around it and kills the variety of what can be considered challenging. Why would we want that? It would just be a big waste of everyone's time anyway, since it's going to get changed.

then it basically become a gear/rng contest at higher levels.

That's inherently what solo challenges are, unless you're doing a SFF challenge (which vastly favors casters over melee, and still involves RNG). You need to have great gear to do difficult things as a melee and any class needs to not get resisted too much on spells/procs that are needed to do the encounter. Many things that are possible to do solo/duo are a matter of repeating the engage until things line up properly. It's all a matter of time expenditure, once you've figured out the method of tackling a specific piece of content.

Zuranthium

07-18-2025, 06:18 PM

The official ruling on using water to avoid Dragon AoE's is "There’s been some back and forth about whether or not it’s actually an exploit, but ultimately we tell people not to. Do people still do it? Yeah, probably. Are we actively watching and hunting them down? Nope."

I guess to be safe, it should not be allowed for the challenge. In which case, what do we think about these ratings for the WW Dragons:

SOLO MASTER: Yeldema (https://wiki.project1999.com/Yeldema) , Myga (https://wiki.project1999.com/Myga) , Sivar (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sivar)

SOLO GRANDMASTER: Makala (https://wiki.project1999.com/Makala) , Atpaev (https://wiki.project1999.com/Atpaev) , Yal (https://wiki.project1999.com/Yal) , Honvar (https://wiki.project1999.com/Honvar) , Gafala (https://wiki.project1999.com/Gafala) , Vraptin (https://wiki.project1999.com/Vraptin) , Vitaela (https://wiki.project1999.com/Vitaela) , Pantrilla (https://wiki.project1999.com/Pantrilla) , Linbrak (https://wiki.project1999.com/Linbrak) , Onava (https://wiki.project1999.com/Onava) , Mazi (https://wiki.project1999.com/Mazi) , Hechaeva (https://wiki.project1999.com/Hechaeva) , Glati (https://wiki.project1999.com/Glati) , Crial (https://wiki.project1999.com/Crial) , Gangel (https://wiki.project1999.com/Gangel)

SOLO GOD: Uiliak (https://wiki.project1999.com/Uiliak) , Esorpa of the Ring (https://wiki.project1999.com/Esorpa_of_the_Ring) , Bratavar (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bratavar) , Amcilla (https://wiki.project1999.com/Amcilla) , Quoza (https://wiki.project1999.com/Quoza) , Nintal (https://wiki.project1999.com/Nintal) , Bufa (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bufa) , Ionat (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ionat) , Neordla (https://wiki.project1999.com/Neordla) , Ayillish (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ayillish) , Entariz (https://wiki.project1999.com/Entariz) , Kar Sapara (https://wiki.project1999.com/Kar_Sapara) , Travala (https://wiki.project1999.com/Travala)

DUO GOD: Von (https://wiki.project1999.com/Von) , Karkona (https://wiki.project1999.com/Karkona) , Derasinal (https://wiki.project1999.com/Derasinal) , Draazak (https://wiki.project1999.com/Draazak) , Rak Sapara (https://wiki.project1999.com/Rak_Sapara) , Zil Sapara (https://wiki.project1999.com/Zil_Sapara) , Del Sapara (https://wiki.project1999.com/Del_Sapara) , Tranala (https://wiki.project1999.com/Tranala)

TRIO GOD: Mav Sapara (https://wiki.project1999.com/Mav_Sapara) , Jen Sapara (https://wiki.project1999.com/Jen_Sapara) , Mraaka (https://wiki.project1999.com/Mraaka)

DeathsSilkyMist

07-18-2025, 07:39 PM

Bravatar is a 4+ Dragon. It shouldn't be on the same tier as Ayillish or Ionat. Bravatar is like Hechaeva, so Bravatar should be on the same tier as Hechaeva.

Zuranthium

07-18-2025, 08:16 PM

Danth

07-18-2025, 09:30 PM

Bratavar is weaker and has less health than Ayillish. On favorable occasions I've tanked Bratavar through (paired with the wife's shaman) without even needing an outside heal. However I would only rate Ayillish in particular as only about a half-tier higher than the basic +4's. Neordla tends to be a little tougher than Ayillish despite having equivalent "on paper" stats....for whatever reason it hits the upper end of its range more often. Entariz (sp?) is a bit tougher due to a stronger AE and Ionat is more dangerous than any of the above when not water-cheezing it due to silence AE.

Glati can be annoying because it's a gater...if fought at spawn it's basically on par with most of the above though. Cargalia can also be a jerk since it has the same nasty AE the other Vox-lookalike roamers have but it's also a shaman.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-18-2025, 09:42 PM

Loot is irrelevant to how strong a MOB is. Going by current info, Bravatar hits harder than Ayillish and Ionat. Definitely deserves to be in the same category as them if the info is correct (hopefully these challenges will help to get everything fully correct on the wiki).

I've fought Hechaeva and Bratavar many times, and I have videos. I have fought Ayillish and Ionat many times too.

Bratavar is not as hard as Ayillish and Ionat. You can check out my videos. I am not sure why you are refusing to take advice from players who have actually fought these mobs.

https://youtu.be/igpbLuNe0ls?feature=shared - Bratavar - Fight is from ~8 minute mark to ~21 minute mark to get Bratavar running. 13 minutes total. Max hit is 219.

https://youtu.be/uEgFcImQ9XU?feature=shared - Hechaeva - Fight is from ~ 1 minute 30 mark to ~13 minute mark to get Hechaeva running. 12 minutes total. Max hit is 219.

https://youtu.be/oPxeOVuX0G8?feature=shared - Ionat - Fight is from ~2 minute 30 mark to ~22 minute 30 mark to get Ionat running. 20 minutes total. Max hit is 237.

All 3 fights were using the same DPS strategy. The wiki is just wrong about bratavar. He doesn't hit for 300.

Zuranthium

07-18-2025, 10:16 PM

I skipped Cargalia on the list it seems! Should be in Duo God.

Ionat is more dangerous than any of the above when not water-cheezing it due to silence AE.

A user on wiki says they soloed Ionat without using water tanking, although I'm not sure if they used consumables to achieve it. Didn't sound like it, but how often does the silence land in your experience?

Glati can be annoying because it's a gater...if fought at spawn it's basically on par with most of the above though.

Do you think Glati should be moved to God tier rather than Grandmaster? If the info is correct he has far less HP than Ayillish, although a 500 point breath rather than 250, plus the shaman spells. Can see that deserving to be in the same tier.

Danth

07-19-2025, 08:28 AM

Ionat is annoying for the wife and I since we're in middle-tier gear with unremarkable resists. Someone with NTOV type resists on gear would probably shrug it off. Since the challenge can't account for gear, probably best to leave it where it's at. That's why the tiers have multiple monsters after all, gives players some ability to customize it to their own specific needs.

Uiliak is IIRC basically the exact same as the other "standard +4's." Most of them are cut-and-pastes of each other 'cept for model and resist type on AE (fire or cold). The Phara Dar lookalikes (Bufa and I think Nintal) hit for 300's instead of the usual low 200's for the +4's, but they don't hit max all that much and aren't really a special problem--same general tier just slightly harder within the tier. Roaming Vox lookalikes (Von, Cargalia, any of the Saparas) are hard due to nasty AE but you accounted for that.

Ayillish is hard to classify: Either harder than any of the basic plus 4's or weaker than anything else in its tier. It *barely* out damages the nest +4's (hence why it's such a popular target--easiest +6) and the main difference is a longer fight. It's even a trivial pull. I suppose this is why each tier requires miltiple distinct kills. Entariz is equivalent to Ayillish except with a 400 AE instead of 250. Players with high resist gear would find them equivalent and Entariz is the second-most-solo'd of the +6's. Entariz and Ionat can be tricky to pull due to close proximity to each other and Sontalak but once pulled normal rules apply.

I don't recall ever having pulled Travala...if I have I don't remember it. It's a quest mob and not much reason to pull it normally. It's red to 60 and mostly it's an annoying roamer you have to watch out for. Red to 60 makes me wonder if it belongs in the same tier as a relative weakling like Ayillish, but OTOH maybe Trav's weak for its level too. I have to defer to others' judgement on that one.

It's been a long time since I pulled Glati--more fuss than he's worth so he's usually ignored--but my recollection is the fight was hardly different than the normal plus 4's ignoring the gate (ie, fight it at spawn). Mainly it just dispells a lot and heals a bit. I don't recall the breath AE being an issue. It's harder than the nest +4's but weaker than stuff like Entariz or Ionat. If it were me I'd leave that one in the weaker tier just understanding it as a "tough" mob for the weaker tier.

Zuranthium

07-19-2025, 02:33 PM

DeathsSilkyMist

07-19-2025, 02:36 PM

Has anyone ever seen "Nyga" in Western Wastes? It's supposed to be a Level 53 Dragon. Either hasn't been put in game on p99 or the wiki doesn't have it listed.

I also see a historical post that says Nintal is supposed to have a stronger breath attack than the standard 250 point one, anyone know the specifics of that in game right now?

Do you mean Myga?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Myga

If so, then the answer is yes. People kill Myga for the Porlos quest:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Porlos%27_Fury_Quest

Zuranthium

07-19-2025, 02:46 PM

No, I don't mean Myga, as that dragon is already clearly listed.

Nyga is a different dragon that is listed by multiple sources as existing during classic.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-19-2025, 02:50 PM

No, I don't mean Myga, as that dragon is already clearly listed.

Nyga is a different dragon that is listed by multiple sources as existing during classic.

Can you post a link to one of these sources? I wouldn't be suprised if it they were just referring to Myga. It might be a typo or they read the name wrong.

Zuranthium

07-19-2025, 03:10 PM

DeathsSilkyMist

07-19-2025, 04:05 PM

There is specifically an item that dropped called "Nyga's Talisman", and the dragon is specifically listed as Level 53, rather than 52 (which is Myga's level). It wasn't a typo. https://web.archive.org/web/20020106070444/http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=7062

Based on how little information is given, my current thinking is this is a bad entry, where they saw Myga and thought the name was Nyga. I'd need to see a screenshot of a dragon with the name "Nyga" at this point. The item entry itself isn't very good evidence. The Talismans the WW Dragons drop generally match their name, so it would be a safe assumption that the Talisman dropped from "Nyga" would follow the same pattern. A screenshot with somebody holding that specific talisman would be great evidence too.

https://www.showeq.net/forums/showthread.php?4221-Global-Alerts-for-MYSEQ-1-15-4

This post has a list of mobs with "Nyga" in it, but it doesn't have "Myga" in it. Using a quick google search, I can't find a list that has both mobs.

It is possible that Myga and Nyga is same mob, it just had two different names. Nyga does sound kind of like the N word, maybe they changed it.

Zuranthium

07-19-2025, 04:40 PM

DeathsSilkyMist

07-19-2025, 04:48 PM

There's a screenshot of the talisman that dropped and there are many sources who saw the dragon. It's specifically described as "Nyga's AE graphic looks like fire, but the message you get from the AE is Your body freezes as the frost hits you."

Please stop wasting space as usual, this thread is to contribute actual info, thanks.

I am not sure why you are arguing so hard when you have so little evidence. If you search "Nyga" on Allakazam, nothing comes up. "Myga" does come up. You had to use the way back machine to find "Nyga". Why would Allakazam delete the "Nyga" mob and it's talisman? It is more reasonable to assume at this point "Nyga" and "Myga" are the same mob. Unless someone has seen this mob on P99, or has a screenshot showing a Dragon with the name "Nyga" over it, there is not reason to worry about "Nyga" for this challenge.

Danth

07-19-2025, 05:11 PM

Has anyone ever seen "Nyga" in Western Wastes? It's supposed to be a Level 53 Dragon. Either hasn't been put in game on p99 or the wiki doesn't have it listed.

I also see a historical post that says Nintal is supposed to have a stronger breath attack than the standard 250 point one, anyone know the specifics of that in game right now?

Don't recall seeing a Nyga. What's it supposed to look like?

Nintal was the same as Bufa when we fought it. It's long enough ago (2017-2018) that it's not necessarily current, but that's the best I can do. Some of those random dragons are pretty rare.

Zuranthium

07-19-2025, 05:41 PM

Unless someone has seen this mob on P99, there is not reason to worry about "Nyga" for this challenge.

No shit, hence why asking if anyone has seen it on the server. If nobody has, a bug report can be filed. It may have stopped spawning in era, perhaps because of concerns about the name. They probably deleted all of the existing talismans in that case and replaced them with Myga talismans.

Nintal was the same as Bufa when we fought it. It's long enough ago (2017-2018) that it's not necessarily current, but that's the best I can do.

Thanks for the info, hopefully someone can provide exact info on Nintal's dragon breath damage at some point. It may need to be changed, and his level increased. Two in-era sources described this dragon as being harder than the other typical nest/roamer dragons.

Goregasmic

07-19-2025, 06:58 PM

DeathsSilkyMist

07-19-2025, 07:09 PM

Thanks DSM and Danth, I was curious about velious dragons and getting a +4 or +5 neck solo was on the to do list but looking it up I couldn't find much info. You can always go to the WW wiki page and sort them by level but that isn't always a good indicator of difficulty. That clears it up a fair bit.

So the nest ones are static but there's some on a cycle (cycles?) so those probably roam?

Going to tackle them as an ench, I guess I need better resist gear first for the AE ones.

No problem! Yes, resist gear is great on WW Dragons. I usually try to cap the relevant resists for the specific dragon.

Be aware that some of the WW Dragons have AoE's that dispel. This makes some of the WW Dragons tougher for a solo Enchanter, as this can dispel the charm on your pet as well if you aren't using the water trick. if you just want a 4+ neck, there are easier WW Dragons. There are a few that can be fear kited if I remember correctly, but I forgot which ones.

There are some roamers, yes.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Yeldema - This is one of the easier Nest Dragons, doesn't AoE as far as I remember. I don't do this WW Dragon very much, as the armor drop isn't as valuable.

If you end up killing a lot of WW Dragons, having a character on Kael faction can turn WW Dragons into a decent money maker. You can turn in the Dragon Heads for Frostbringer, Barbed Dragonscale Boots, Cloak of the Maelstrom, or Barbed Dragonscale Pauldrons.