How about...(raidmobs) [Archive]

Ele

08-03-2011, 01:15 PM

Cause people started poopsocking now and it makes the game worse, for everyone involved. Nobody complained when nobody poopsocked.

You know your guild doesn't have to poopsock if they don't want to?

If TR is so much better at "mobilization" and has "better players", then why not challenge yourselves by changing your remaining bind points at the ledge and fighting down from the zone in and let other guilds spend their time as they may please? If one guild wants to sit at a spawn for 48 hours, why not let them? You expect them to fail. If a "lesser" guild is prepping to engage a boss, why not let them have a shot? Again, we all know you fully expect them to fail because they are "inferior" and that the bosses are "already yours". You in theory should be able to clean up the resulting aftermath for easy uncontested kills.

Oh wait, because you just want the kill (or loot or denial of loot to others) through any means necessary including, but not limited to, poopsocking, aggroing off pullers, training, and outright kill stealing.

Keep cranking out those DKP.

Vendar

08-03-2011, 01:16 PM

Not accusing you of anything but more of a question...

Why are spawn times an issue now but they weren't for the last several months?

excellent question imo

Banai

08-03-2011, 01:22 PM

I think the only solution to your problem is that you all realize that its a EMU server of a what, 12? year old game. Game being the key word. You dont have to poopsock or track for hours upon hours because you know what, it doesnt give you anything at all - pixels dont have some hidden value. Learn to prioritize m8s!

Messianic

08-03-2011, 01:22 PM

I laugh to think at the kind of hardcore freaking drama this server would have if it had 1700-2000 people active during peak hours.

Zeelot

08-03-2011, 01:43 PM

@Tiggles i dont see any advantage there for us since you have way more members than we do, and therefore more people online at most times of the day.

Yeah...we should change everything to give you guys an advantage.

Ring

08-03-2011, 01:48 PM

Yeah...we should change everything to give you guys an advantage.

Can you change your sig and remove young lawyer because according to the logs in the RnF thread, you've been disbarred.

Seaweedpimp

08-03-2011, 01:49 PM

Zereh

08-03-2011, 01:49 PM

Not accusing you of anything but more of a question...

Why are spawn times an issue now but they weren't for the last several months?

Seaweedpimp

08-03-2011, 01:57 PM

Or how about we keep it the same. Since TMO got 4/5 of the last trak spawns?

Lazortag

08-03-2011, 02:29 PM

...more or less random spawn timers on raidmobs, whit serverwide messages when a raidmob spawns?

I know it sounds silly, but why not? It would create a way more classic feeling than we have now. Every(or at least most) boss spawns would result in a race between multiple guilds, since everyone would always know when something spawns.

- It would end poopsocking and similar things (like logging out a whole raid buffed at a target)
- It would end the need of countless hours of tracking

This would be awesome, imo. Imagine the fun.

/flame on

(in b4 someone claims i just want the rules changed cause we are getting "competition" (read: poopsock) atm, i just want to end the fucking ridicoulous poopsocking)

If I wanted to make raiding more fun (not necessarily more fair), I'd either (a) make all mobs on a 7-day timer spawn at once, or (b) reduce the variance to a very small amount of time (something like +/- 2 hours). The most fun I've had when raiding has been on patch days where all raid mobs repop in a short space of time and I don't have to invest much into getting any mobs. Just logging on and attempting bosses for 2-4 hours I think is funner for everyone than sitting on a tracker for 48 hours.

The first idea is admittedly a little unfair because it means a guild who just tracks one raid mob can know that all of them have spawned, whereas the second one is a little less fun than the first because you don't have as much certainty that even the "small guilds" will get a chance to race and take down mobs (since trackers are more valuable and since not every boss is spawning simultaneously). But the basic idea would be that once no mobs on a 7 day timer are alive, the timer resets and when one raid mob pops, either they all pop or there's a 4 hour window in which staggered repops occur. This wouldn't fix Trakanon, and like I said it might not necessarily be fair, but I still think it would be fun.

Maze513

08-03-2011, 02:30 PM

Lol I wish Rog would flip the switch for a week and then see what we think after that....
see if we dont get along or GTFO...
just another dumb idea brought to you by: Marijuana

YendorLootmonkey

08-03-2011, 02:34 PM

EkireiTheNecro

08-03-2011, 02:54 PM

poopsocking

Feachie

08-03-2011, 03:02 PM

ever played duck hunt? poopsocking is the same thing as putting the gun up to the screen. ducks are too fast, i must get closer.

baub

08-03-2011, 03:07 PM

so what you're saying is you don't want to track

Feachie

08-03-2011, 03:09 PM

tracking != sitting your whole raid on the spawn

Anger

08-03-2011, 03:09 PM

Cause people started poopsocking now and it makes the game worse, for everyone involved. Nobody complained when nobody poopsocked.

I don't know where you've been for the past year, but people (including IB!) were poopsocking long before kunark.

And were doing so on live servers as well. This isn't a new development for P99. This IS classic.

Feachie

08-03-2011, 03:16 PM

I don't know where you've been for the past year, but people (including IB!) were poopsocking long before kunark.

And were doing so on live servers as well. This isn't a new development for P99. This IS classic.

shut up, you know poopsocking is stupid. or at least i would hope you do.

If poopsocking must continue, I do request that one of the guilds needs to block the other from vp. yes i'm stirring the pot on this one. do it. disrupt the balance. make top tier guilds into 2nd tier guilds, 2nd into 3rd, and so on. imagine the potential for rnf. and it's classic!

and remove fte. may the most dps win

Anger

08-03-2011, 03:19 PM

shut up, you know poopsocking is stupid. or at least i would hope you do.

If poopsocking must continue, I do request that one of the guilds needs to block the other from vp. yes i'm stirring the pot on this one. do it. disrupt the balance. make top tier guilds into 2nd tier guilds, 2nd into 3rd, and so on. imagine the potential for rnf. and it's classic!

and remove fte. may the most dps win

Poopsocking should continue. Classic experience, right?

Poopsocking didn't stop until they started instancing encounters. That's just the way it goes. Don't like it? EZ Server is recruiting.

Seaweedpimp

08-03-2011, 03:19 PM

Feachie

08-03-2011, 03:25 PM

then make it happen. if the poopsocking won't stop, make it a non-issue and progress to content that others can't touch yet (by your design). THAT is classic.

Seaweedpimp

08-03-2011, 03:26 PM

then make it happen. if the poopsocking won't stop, make it a non-issue and progress to content that others can't touch yet (by your design). THAT is classic.

There is none.

baub

08-03-2011, 03:28 PM

tracking != sitting your whole raid on the spawn

wasn't talking to you but thx for care

Feachie

08-03-2011, 03:29 PM

There is none.

there will be. but, do you guys really have 300 members? you could leisurely camp trak while simultaneously keeping vp on clear status with that. do i think that's "fair" for any guild to do? no. but it's classic, and funny when it happens.

wasn't talking to you but thx for care
it took 3 seconds of typing and zero care. also [quote] helps avoid confusion.

Aadill

08-03-2011, 03:39 PM

there will be. but, do you guys really have 300 members?

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=349704&postcount=141

Why still a lot it's more a product of wanting to build a strong community stronger. There is a large population of TMO from their live server and many more groups that all joined because they, too, were on a live server together.

Mezzmur

08-03-2011, 03:49 PM

I posted this on the RNF thread initially, but there were no replies/responses to it. I think poopsocking is inevitable in some form or another. If someone wants a mob (which trak seems to be the soup de jour) they're going to do whatever it takes to get it. If 2 mobs are in window, it's whatever mob is the #1 choice.

An example is VS vs Trak last week. We opted to roll the dice and wait at VS and then move to Trak. It's possible that Trak pops before VS and we miss it. Such is the game you play.

As Karst suggested in the conversation to move to jugg door, you'll just have people pooping at the door. Then you'll have trains, flames, and leapfrogging as everyone scrambles to get back to ledge as it is everywhere else. My vote is just to prevent spawn-socking and leave the rest as is with FTE. It's been like that for a long time now, but became more of an issue when the highest-end targets became hotly contested as opposed to being nearly solo targets. We spent a lot of times cothing down(and watching TR kill or wipe) and trying to race while TR was already camped there and logged in faster. I clearly remember that being the point at which I was told we were going to log at the ledge too, because a coth race can't beat a login race.

Here's what I said elsewhere:

GMs should make Trak AE Banish to bubble for the first 15 seconds if you aggro. Prevent spawn-socking and promote ledge camping. All I've heard is camping @ a mob buffed when in window since I've been leveled enough to raid. Not just Trak, hear about TR & others at VS, etc. As someone said previously, I thought people buffed/camped @ other targets pre-kunark when a target was very important to them.

If a target becomes less important, the camping will slow or stop. Right now, Trak is #1 for almost everyone because of VP keys, so it's going to remain highly contested for a while.

If you have 1-2-3-4+ guilds, it won't matter. First one to get in and engage with the right numbers wins. We've spent plenty of times having 40+ people at ledge and not prepared to engage and TR starts to engage. Or we've jumped the gun and wiped. The drama really started when socking spawn and claiming the mob with 15 people. FTE will bite people in the ass and you'll win some or lose some. It's an easy way for a GM to come in and say "yes, you won agro" or not.

This gets more difficult because rules on other mobs(like sev) are no kiting til engaging. You'll still get petitions and require GM interactions unless you had a spawn-location-leash where the dragon was auto-reset if kited or pulled for too long. I'm pretty sure NToV dragons had something of this nature.

Again -- this is all non-classic -- but it could help with some of the server issues to allow for competition. Otherwise just leave it all as it was and deal with socking for a few months. My vote is on FTE and if I want to stay logged in I can, if I don't like the idea of being a raider, can join another guild and be a casual player. People have those options.

tekniq

08-03-2011, 03:49 PM

Nedala

08-03-2011, 03:54 PM

You seem to enjoy poopsocking :rolleyes:

The problem is, if we would start a rotation for trak, tmo would start to poopsock VS, and so on ....lame

tekniq

08-03-2011, 03:59 PM

You seem to enjoy poopsocking :rolleyes:

The problem is, if we would start a rotation for trak, tmo would start to poopsock VS, and so on ....lame

hehe, i've never poopsocked or seen a raid boss except for inny and CT once. i'm not part of tmo/tr.

i'm sure if you guys can work together, you can just rotate the major boss mobs (vs, trak, etc..), but you guys hate each other and would love to see each other fail.

in all honestly, TR/TMA has the power to bring some integrity into this server, but seeing the looks of it, it's never going to happen because greed is the root of all evil!

Seaweedpimp

08-03-2011, 04:00 PM

You seem to enjoy poopsocking :rolleyes:

The problem is, if we would start a rotation for trak, tmo would start to poopsock VS, and so on ....lame

4/5

You seem to enjoy losing trak spawns. :rolleyes:

Mezzmur

08-03-2011, 04:00 PM

maybe its time this server acts like adults and figure out a way to share raid mobs without annoying the GMs. Xev server had a council like the UN with all the premier guilds and they kept the peace unlike this server with a bunch of retards.

I think the real problem is Trak at this point -- the socking of trak and rage that followed for several days later lead to a lot of anger. Everyone socked, TMO got FTE, XP and Loot. 24 hours later TR wanted to enforce the 15-man-rule. You can't really enforce something like that after-the-fact. However, it was rule upon as split the loot and call it a day. It's in the past you move on.

I think the best way to move on I've outlined, however, you could do something like a calendar on raid mobs and leave Trak alone to be FTE with ledge camp as it has been. The problem with trak is the need for progression, making him more important to most people ready for that stage of the game. If a smaller guild wanted to "catch up" to TR or even TMO at this point, they'd be far behind in getting teeth. And how do you even decide who has the right to claim a mob or not? There's so much shitty politics involved that it's easier to let it be as it has been. Remove terrible server rules like first-to-15 for raid targets and call it a day. FTE and don't spawn sock.

Just some thoughts, trying to remain factual and avoid he-said-she-said.

Nedala

08-03-2011, 04:01 PM

you cant count a trak you didnt get the loot from, oh snap.

I didnt count tbh, but it must be something like 40/8 by now ;)
Got a tooth yet?

tekniq

08-03-2011, 04:02 PM

trak spawns now what 2x a week? why dont you guys just take turns????
/end

wrxBRAH

08-03-2011, 04:02 PM

There are plenty of things on this server that arent classic. Changing raid bosses to random timers wont make them any less classic. You'll have to mobilize for them instead of sitting afk 2 boxing a character on red69.

tekniq

08-03-2011, 04:04 PM

Mezzmur

08-03-2011, 04:06 PM

You seem to enjoy poopsocking :rolleyes:

The problem is, if we would start a rotation for trak, tmo would start to poopsock VS, and so on ....lame

I think people are going to sock whatever is a priority - as many people have stated - camping @ a spawn buffed has been done for a long time (not sure if you consider that socking). I think camp/batphone is my preferred way to operate, but if I'm going to login here and there, I'll either see about getting some xp nearby (like juggs/reets or VS pit mobs). If not, I'll hop on an alt.

I think that's what it's going to take to get some pretty awesome items. 1 mob spawns x times per week and there's maybe 300+ people on the server that have a potential to want something. That's a lot of people looking for loot.

Last night we did sky, it was awesome and we took down EoV. I got my first raid-boss item and it was really exciting for me and I put in my time contributing to other things, like coth-anchor, socking, camping @ spawn, etc to make it worth it. It's a slow and painful process and I think the only answer is to agree to race and avoid grief whenever possible.

TR makes the most of socking as well, or at least some of the folks in Trak lair, they were dotting mobs and then cothing the dotter to pull nameds and PHs to trak lair. It's a creative way to kill time while waiting for something they're interested in getting.

Nebi

08-03-2011, 04:12 PM

Hello friends.

Follow these suggestions to help stop ingame poopsocking.

Any person afk for more then 30 mins around a boss (or set area) is automatically teleported to the zonein and unable to cast / move / do anything for another 30.

It wont stop poopsocking in general but at least it will stop some of the ingame poopsocking. What seems to happen now is a few people stay active clearing trash/ watching the spawn point and the rest afk waiting for the "batphone".

Tewaz

08-03-2011, 04:15 PM

I still like the PVP option.

Or making the Trak spawn 7 days but variable between 1 hours and 7 days. Hello Fun!

Seaweedpimp

08-03-2011, 04:17 PM

you cant count a trak you didnt get the loot from, oh snap.

I didnt count tbh, but it must be something like 40/8 by now ;)
Got a tooth yet?

Hey, since our guild was created you guys have gotten the lesser number of trak kills.

How does this make you feel nedala? Do you care?

Mezzmur

08-03-2011, 04:18 PM

trak spawns now what 2x a week? why dont you guys just take turns????
/end

Tek, see Nele's comment below.

you cant count a trak you didnt get the loot from, oh snap.

I didnt count tbh, but it must be something like 40/8 by now ;)
Got a tooth yet?

There's quite a bit of hang up here as I see it.

1.) even if it went 1/1 for the coming weeks, as Nele says, it could be something like 40/8. Which means if 40x(1 to 3) teeth dropped, they have a HUGE head start on keys for VP. I think it would be a more amicable compromise to have other guilds get teeth for at least a little while before we went to a split situation because as it stands, they're(TR) will be the sole people in VP if other guilds don't get keys. Everyone wants to see the content and there's a limited number of keys-per-week. So it's hotly contested.

Just wait, it'll be the same in Sleepers Tomb.

2.) As the TMO officers see it, there's no reason to change a winning strategy. Right now, as the members have become more motivated to kill trak, they have taken a higher % of the kills away from TR. 2 spawns ago was highly contested and the loot was split on a technicality (see Uth's logs for that stuff). If the guilds agree to not spawn sock and just race (not using the 15-man mob rule) then you'll be back to how it was at this previous spawn and 3 spawns ago, where everyone just races from the ledge. My understanding is that the reason it got to Spawn-Socking was due to the fact that there were only like ~6 hours left in Traks window, so everyone knew it was time to just sit and wait.

3.) Rotation is really hard when you talk about more guilds entering the picture. I'm not sure how many people Taken, Divinity, BDA actually have, but when do they get a chance? If they had a keen strategy and the right numbers, they might be able to take trak down now. I know TMO did it with 37 and I would think there are other guilds out there with more than 37 mobs.

I suppose you could say something like -- mob spawns, you have 1 hour to kill, if you wipe another group gets a try. I suppose, if someone signs up (say BDA) they try and wipe, then it becomes FTE like normal. It could work, but again, everyone wants to get to VP and it's going to be hard to convince the leading-teams to share until more keys are spread about. I think that's what makes EQ so addictive and appealing to most people is that it's not hold-your-hand easy like WoW or anything else that has instanced encounters.

wrxBRAH

08-03-2011, 04:18 PM

is that a blob-eye 05? i hope you're st2 at least cause I am :)

yep 05. 19psi self tuned map and full 3inch catless with uppipe and exhaust manifold thats pnpd. so slightly more than stg2 right now.

racking up all the goodies to run corn juice on a ewg 16g xt soon + new clutch.

tekniq

08-03-2011, 04:29 PM

yep 05. 19psi self tuned map and full 3inch catless with uppipe and exhaust manifold thats pnpd. so slightly more than stg2 right now.

racking up all the goodies to run corn juice on a ewg 16g xt soon + new clutch.

nice, i decided not to go catless cuase i heard it smells like shit when idle. i'm cobb up, grimmspeed dp accessport st2..going to do some more work when i get more paper

Tek, see Nele's comment below.

There's quite a bit of hang up here as I see it.

1.) even if it went 1/1 for the coming weeks, as Nele says, it could be something like 40/8. Which means if 40x(1 to 3) teeth dropped, they have a HUGE head start on keys for VP. I think it would be a more amicable compromise to have other guilds get teeth for at least a little while before we went to a split situation because as it stands, they're(TR) will be the sole people in VP if other guilds don't get keys. Everyone wants to see the content and there's a limited number of keys-per-week. So it's hotly contested.

Just wait, it'll be the same in Sleepers Tomb.

2.) As the TMO officers see it, there's no reason to change a winning strategy. Right now, as the members have become more motivated to kill trak, they have taken a higher % of the kills away from TR. 2 spawns ago was highly contested and the loot was split on a technicality (see Uth's logs for that stuff). If the guilds agree to not spawn sock and just race (not using the 15-man mob rule) then you'll be back to how it was at this previous spawn and 3 spawns ago, where everyone just races from the ledge. My understanding is that the reason it got to Spawn-Socking was due to the fact that there were only like ~6 hours left in Traks window, so everyone knew it was time to just sit and wait.

3.) Rotation is really hard when you talk about more guilds entering the picture. I'm not sure how many people Taken, Divinity, BDA actually have, but when do they get a chance? If they had a keen strategy and the right numbers, they might be able to take trak down now. I know TMO did it with 37 and I would think there are other guilds out there with more than 37 mobs.

I suppose you could say something like -- mob spawns, you have 1 hour to kill, if you wipe another group gets a try. I suppose, if someone signs up (say BDA) they try and wipe, then it becomes FTE like normal. It could work, but again, everyone wants to get to VP and it's going to be hard to convince the leading-teams to share until more keys are spread about. I think that's what makes EQ so addictive and appealing to most people is that it's not hold-your-hand easy like WoW or anything else that has instanced encounters.

1) ok yea you're right since TR has had such a huge advantage before the merge..can't help ya there then.

3) honestly, there shouldn't be a rotation besides TMA/TR as of now, no one else can take on Trak unless all the tier 2 guilds unite (bda, taken, vd, div)..and honestly, the tier 2 guilds would be more happy being able to catch up killing pre-kunark bosses and the other ones TMA/TR aren't focusing on. I mean, I would more than satisfied getting a CT/Inny kill right now than joining the trak race. it's just unfortunate that if you're not TMA/TR, you're just really really really far behind on loot and there really ain't nothing you can do about it because you will get outzerged by TMA/TR. but hey that's just me and i can't speak for the rest of the tier2 guilds

Mezzmur

08-03-2011, 04:34 PM

1) ok yea you're right since TR has had such a huge advantage before the merge..can't help ya there then.

3) honestly, there shouldn't be a rotation besides TMA/TR as of now, no one else can take on Trak unless all the tier 2 guilds unite (bda, taken, vd, div)..and honestly, the tier 2 guilds would be more happy being able to catch up killing pre-kunark bosses and the other ones TMA/TR aren't focusing on. I mean, I would more than satisfied getting a CT/Inny kill right now than joining the trak race. but that's just me and i can't speak for the rest of the tier2 guilds

I've actually never seen Inny or CT downed myself in person on P99.

I was in Fear once for Draco -- we had about 24 or so in zone and then TR swarmmed, kited train, peeled draco, killed, looted then all wiped. It's the nature of EQ, don't pull fast enough and big guilds come in and swoop. I'm up for killing whatever I can. If that means logging at track or VS, more power to those that want to.

I am happy doing whatever content is up and ready to be downed.

Bruman

08-03-2011, 04:36 PM

3) honestly, there shouldn't be a rotation besides TMA/TR as of now, no one else can take on Trak unless all the tier 2 guilds unite (bda, taken, vd, div)..and honestly, the tier 2 guilds would be more happy being able to catch up killing pre-kunark bosses and the other ones TMA/TR aren't focusing on. I mean, I would more than satisfied getting a CT/Inny kill right now than joining the trak race. but that's just me and i can't speak for the rest of the tier2 guilds

While I don't speak for my guild, only myself, I know I'd like some Kunark dragon action. With Naggy and Vox out of the picture now (casual guilds are much less likely to make an alt raid with level 52s). Cazic and Inny would be great, but that's not like it's a ton of more mobs.

I also know I'm not interested in this Trak race that's going on currently (I enjoy a good race, or even a good "TRY TO KS THE OTHER GUY!" but everyone is taking it too seriously for it to be fun). There's other Kunark dragons, but ya gotta have that whole tracker and batphone thing going on hehe.

Mcbard

08-03-2011, 04:37 PM

I love poop socking, trivial persuit is awesome. Way more fun than EverQuest.

Malev

08-03-2011, 04:55 PM

So, I looked up 'poopsocking' on urban dictionary, and I will never be able to unsee that image in my head.

Mezzmur

08-03-2011, 05:05 PM

I love poop socking, trivial persuit is awesome. Way more fun than EverQuest.

<3

Auto-Banish first 10-15 seconds on raid-mobs so that nobody spawn socks and everyone can keep a raid force wherever else they'd like(ledge, vs pit, EJ stairs, etc)

After that -- Leash the mobs and force the raids to move to the mobs. This removes stupid kite-stalling and everything else. When you engage you engage and FTE is stupid-easy to enforce. Just need buy-in from the DEVs to enable the code.

Otherwise, invest in fruit of the loom tube socks.

Scoresby

08-03-2011, 07:00 PM

Better yet. Have any raid boss auto DT all members of a guild with more than 15 members in a zone when it spawns. Force a mobilization war!

wrxBRAH

08-03-2011, 07:13 PM

I think most people will agree some sort of mobilization to engage needs to happen. Poopsocking isnt meant for raiding.

Alarti0001

08-03-2011, 07:26 PM

You seem to enjoy poopsocking :rolleyes:

The problem is, if we would start a rotation for trak, tmo would start to poopsock VS, and so on ....lame

Could all the RNF stuff stay in RNF..... there seems to be some kind of constructive stuff going on here

Bubbles

08-03-2011, 10:42 PM

3) honestly, there shouldn't be a rotation besides TMA/TR as of now, no one else can take on Trak unless all the tier 2 guilds unite (bda, taken, vd, div)..and honestly, the tier 2 guilds would be more happy being able to catch up killing pre-kunark bosses and the other ones TMA/TR aren't focusing on. I mean, I would more than satisfied getting a CT/Inny kill right now than joining the trak race. it's just unfortunate that if you're not TMA/TR, you're just really really really far behind on loot and there really ain't nothing you can do about it because you will get outzerged by TMA/TR. but hey that's just me and i can't speak for the rest of the tier2 guilds

oh, please. You could hit up EC, assemble 30+ randoms and go kill Trak. Whatever the tag, as long as they had levels and some resist gear.

If you're saying no one else is even remotely willing to go through the poopsocking tedium, then yeah, in that sense : no one else is 'taking on' Trak.

h0tr0d (shaere)

08-03-2011, 10:44 PM

I thought the answer was it isn't classic? If we are going for classic then go for classic, and do what we did on live. Tell the 10 yr olds to take a hike and make the adults act like adults. Most servers had forums and town hall meetings amongst guilds to set up schedules and rotations. The problem here is the instant gratification generation of wow players.

Autotune

08-03-2011, 10:47 PM

I thought the answer was it isn't classic? If we are going for classic then go for classic, and do what we did on live. Tell the 10 yr olds to take a hike and make the adults act like adults.

things already aren't classic. How are we keeping non-classic things classic.

the raid mob windows were put in to "fix" a problem

so why not have Trakanon banish people in his aggro radius upon spawning. If it would "fix" the problem.

Edit: might as well just have him banish everyone inside the door to his lair, or hell everyone in the zone.

h0tr0d (shaere)

08-03-2011, 10:52 PM

Ask Nilbog. I just say if it is classic, stick to classic. And the goal is as close to classic as possible. Why don't we have the eye of veeshan shoot flowers at the raid? pffrt

Bubbles

08-03-2011, 11:07 PM

As for the 100+ pages of drama the last 2 days, nothing short of a full server split of the introduction of instancing is going to make any of this go away, like, ever. so /shrug.

What you have is two massive armies of malcontents who only get erections when they deprive someone else of something. It's sad, of course, but no gm intervention or rotation or rule change is ever going to completely change the human nature of the people flinging poo in these threads. Which is the real (and obvious) reason it's all coming apart at the seams.

Even those who arent completely evil and self-loathing are always going to be pitted against each other from the basic economic nature of the server. Example:

Storm Haven, Gnomish Proving Grounds, THF, EZ, PEQ.. etc... many of us have donk around on the other EMU servers and the communities are polar opposites to here. People go out of their way to help each other, to talk to each other, to gear each other, to encounter things together, etc. Why is this? Well EZ, for example, a higher tiered player can farm charms while helping a lower level get their epic 2.0... A higher tiered player can farm augment essences in T1/T2 and have lower tiered folks tag along for weapons and armorz and such. The system is set in place for things like that. Some of the smaller EMUs require the warm bodies to do content, so they purposely seek out and help gear/level newer people to bolster the community.

What we have, of course, on P99 is a recreation of... Classic EQ. Which was the be all and end all of 'scarcity'. There's a finite number of high money camps. A finite number of ways to make resist gear. A finite number of raid mobs. etc. etc. And there's little to no reward for helping out the random person. I think Shaere said it best in the other thread when talking about the true measure of a man is how he treats someone whom he has nothing to gain from. It's poignant, and 100% true. The people that stick out in your mind on p99 remind you of this.. And many of them are wearing the TR / TMA tags. And when you get them away from the slavedrivers beating the 'scarcity' stick, are really swell, helpful, caring people. And I can't even count the amount of people i've had issues with on here that i've been best buds with on the other EMUs.

In short: the p99 system, like live, is designed to drive an infiinite amount of people to rumble over a finite amount of desired resources, like a pack of starved dogs being thrown small amounts of raw hamburger once a day.

And it's a system that's actually classic on steroids, since instead of 100-150 people on this 'classic sized server' who know what they hay they are doing... 90% of the server knows what the hay they are doing, so it's exponentially more 'crowded' and 'qqfest' in the higher tiers.

Inb4 ppl who crave Veilous (cuz that's when they actually started on live) talk more about how socking and racing was rampant in 1999 as if they were actually there. ;)

This server is a faithful and well-crafted reincarnation of Everquest circa 1999. The playerbase. ... is..... not.

Mezzmur

08-03-2011, 11:23 PM

Which was the be all and end all of 'scarcity'.

That pretty much hits the nail on the head for me. I'm a member of TMO and it's a matter of competition and limited availability of things. Having the ability to know the future of the server just makes things that much more important as well.

I started in EQ Beta, then played as a Grudge Bearer in Fennin Ro, I can tell you that there was socking. Maybe not to the degree and ruthlessness that it was then, but it was there. For me, I saw it much more in Kunark than in pre-Kunark though. I remember a lot of combined hate raids, etc. Especially hate/fear calendars.

It's economics, and right now Trak is in high demand. Everyone knows that VP is coming, and everyone wants to be there when it opens. Just like sleepers will be. It's eq, not an easy game. *shrug*

Versus

08-04-2011, 02:29 AM

Let's leave it the way it is, it's been working out pretty well recently, IMO.

:)

Maze513

08-04-2011, 03:35 AM

I agree with Phisting. Amelinda fucked up and made a bad call when she shouldn't have said anything and now everyone in a pissing match. Make the rules clear to both parties and let them drive each other nuts. When rules are black and white there is no room for young lawyers

Seaweedpimp

08-04-2011, 04:16 AM

Let's leave it the way it is, it's been working out pretty well recently, IMO.

:)

pls

Happyfeet

08-04-2011, 04:33 AM

oh, please. You could hit up EC, assemble 30+ randoms and go kill Trak. Whatever the tag, as long as they had levels and some resist gear.

That is amazingly not true. Killing Trak with 30-35 people all in the same guild isn't easy nor always successful, let alone random people. Organization is one of the hardest aspects of Trak, both guilds have great leaders. Not to mention having enough DPS (meaning most melee are rocking 27-41% haste and 250+ PR). Please find me 30+ people in EC with that going on. I'd even vote for letting your PUG try first just for pure FRAPS amusement.
P.S. I'm in TMO.

YendorLootmonkey

08-04-2011, 06:39 AM

3) honestly, there shouldn't be a rotation besides TMA/TR as of now, no one else can take on Trak unless all the tier 2 guilds unite (bda, taken, vd, div)

It's more like the other guilds are passing by, looking in disgust, as two groups of people are holding up socks to their asses and filling them up with poop, and holding them up and laughing at us that we don't want that bad enough.

Otur

08-04-2011, 06:55 AM

http://www.poopsock.com/comic/strips/2007-06-26.gif

May the best Zerg win...

Bubbles

08-04-2011, 07:15 AM

That is amazingly not true. Killing Trak with 30-35 people all in the same guild isn't easy nor always successful, let alone random people. Organization is one of the hardest aspects of Trak, both guilds have great leaders. Not to mention having enough DPS (meaning most melee are rocking 27-41% haste and 250+ PR). Please find me 30+ people in EC with that going on. I'd even vote for letting your PUG try first just for pure FRAPS amusement.
P.S. I'm in TMO.

Heh.. seriously.. The 55+ toons, resist gear, and 26+% haste is SOLD in EC.

I mean, if you wanna give me pointers to tell the crew while we march thru juggs on the way there.. lets highlight.

1. ) position Trak properly
2. ) hide casters
3. ) shout / time AE
4. ) have everyone make their 'i are blind and poisoned oh noes!' hotkeys
5. ) etc. etc. etc.

hold on while i grab a napkin and some crayons.

If you seriously believed for a second no one else could kill the content, you wouldn't be falling over yourselves trying to down it the instant it popped. ;)

p.s. i was there the first few times that dragon was killed on live. in 1999.
/yawn.

JenJen

08-04-2011, 07:30 AM

yendor please stop winning with every post on this subject! you're killing me.

JenJen

08-04-2011, 07:40 AM

bubbles FTW!

Loke

08-04-2011, 08:03 AM

Not accusing you of anything but more of a question...

Why are spawn times an issue now but they weren't for the last several months?

Umm because Uthgaard has been raging the fuck out on TMO and TR? I love that there is a *member of the server staff* (see forum moderator) who is feeding this "there isn't a problem" when Uthgaard himself says on a REGULAR FUCKING BASIS that we (TMO and TR) need to find a solution to the problem. Yet, every time the problem is brought up we have geniuses like you fuel the counter-productive fire with bullshit posts like this.

Why do you even post here? Do you not talk to anyone else who works on this server? Seriously, I've never really had a problem with your post, but as someone who moderates the forums, you'd think you'd have some sort of idea what is going on.

Feel free to abuse your board powers and edit this or suspend me - from what I've heard it sounds like the inevitable result of this post even though you were the one that felt the need to shit up this thread with your unproductive input.

Edit: I realize that my post was also unproductive and is shitting up this thread, but lets be honest, no one gives these threads a fair shake anyway and this one was long dead, despite the fact that a 100% variance is a solution that has been offered up countless times before, yet batted away every time for basically no reason. Seriously, I can think of at least 3 different times throughout the server history where the majority of raiding guilds were pushing for a 100% variance (see: end poopsocking). Yet, it gets brought up here and everyone is like "WE DONT NEED TO CHANGE" when at the same time Uthgaard is in game saying "YOU GUYS NEED TO MAKE A CHANGE".. it is infuriating.

JenJen

08-04-2011, 08:26 AM

michael jackson - man in the mirror

Mcbard

08-04-2011, 08:50 AM

Heh.. seriously.. The 55+ toons, resist gear, and 26+% haste is SOLD in EC.

I mean, if you wanna give me pointers to tell the crew while we march thru juggs on the way there.. lets highlight.

1. ) position Trak properly
2. ) hide casters
3. ) shout / time AE
4. ) have everyone make their 'i are blind and poisoned oh noes!' hotkeys
5. ) etc. etc. etc.

hold on while i grab a napkin and some crayons.

If you seriously believed for a second no one else could kill the content, you wouldn't be falling over yourselves trying to down it the instant it popped. ;)

p.s. i was there the first few times that dragon was killed on live. in 1999.
/yawn.

I generally stay out of these threads because they're stupid, and I like you Bubbles but I don't think you know this encounter very well! You can't dodge the AE by hiding behind a rock or anything, so hiding casters isn't going to work, if you time the ae you're going to lose so much dps that your tanks are just going to die/get shroomed and you will lose (see positioning), and Trak doesn't blind on this server and never has.

Just sayin'! <3

Skope

08-04-2011, 09:08 AM

Not accusing you of anything but more of a question...

Why are spawn times an issue now but they weren't for the last several months?

because there's competition now so they're "forced" to poopsock (both TMO/TR). if you miss out on a few dragons and don't see the same amount of loot you used to you quickly start to notice the flaws in the system. guilds tend to turn to dick-ish behavior where they can capitalize on any single advantage they can get; example: leaving your PC on and your character logged in in a particular zone so you can respond to the batphone faster.

basically boils down to "if they do it then we have to do it too in order to stay competitive because they have X advantage" but in reality they both hate the fact that they're "forced" to do it so they bitch and moan on the forums.

Loke, you're being a dick. He has an extremely fucking valid point and so does Uthgaard. They're tired of fucking babysitting you douchemonkeys every time a raid mob spawns because you're so greedy and competitive and have created a top-end raid scene that even you have a hard time enjoying. If i were uthgaard I'd despawn and delete any loot that drops every time there is a petition that could have been resolved before the thing spawned. You have no idea how many times I've sent tells to you fuckholes before a potential problem only to be completely fucking ignored or even get back a asshole response. Considering who the officers are in the two respective guilds I'm going to assume that shit still happens quite frequently. Somehow you sound pissy that uthgaard has a problem? or that chica doesn't know why the problem wasn't seen/solved before? are you fucking serious? it's the same issue that you've dealt with on both sides of the battlefield and I'm getting the vibe that you're upset that uthgaard has to delete loot after you've wasted days of your time... well, that's not his problem but yours. and it's been your problem for years now

JenJen

08-04-2011, 09:09 AM

imagine the tears and suicides if this server ever ends

SupaflyIRL

08-04-2011, 09:16 AM

Is this the thread where I app to guilds?

Ennoia

08-04-2011, 09:21 AM

Yeah so the Euro guild can get 100% of the random ones that spawn during your raid times.

How about Trak stays how he is and we figure out a way to stop a giant petition fest every 3 days

The only way to do that is either to merge all the raid guilds into one (boring) or have the spawns done static and people just do a mob rotation. Yea, a rotation has a lot more cons than pros for some people, but they work and cut out a LOT of the drama and makes raiding seem like less of a chore. Just think, you won't have to wake up at 3am to kill a dragon anymore!

Loke

08-04-2011, 09:23 AM

because there's competition now so they're "forced" to poopsock (both TMO/TR). if you miss out on a few dragons and don't see the same amount of loot you used to you quickly start to notice the flaws in the system.

I'm just going to say it this time - you're wrong and dumb.

Let me emphasize something for you:

UTHGAARD HIMSELF HAS SAID THERE NEEDS TO BE CHANGES TO THE RAID SYSTEM - NOT TR, NOT TMO - UTHGAARD.

We're simply providing possible solutions to what the server staff has deemed a problem. How do you people still not understand this?

Skope

08-04-2011, 09:24 AM

The only way to do that is either to merge all the raid guilds into one (boring) or have the spawns done static and people just do a mob rotation. Yea, a rotation has a lot more cons than pros for some people, but they work and cut out a LOT of the drama and makes raiding seem like less of a chore. Just think, you won't have to wake up at 3am to kill a dragon anymore!

pride. that's their single problem. they have too much invested here to ever think of themselves as on an even keel as anyone else and need that fart-sniffing because every time loot drops they get to wank off to how awesome they are compared to everyone else. It's the attitude that has to change, because regardless of what the rules are there will always be assholes leading the charge and creating problems for the GMs and the rest of the community

Loke, the problem has been around since FTE hit, and both you and i know and SAW THIS COMING. Soon as both you and i saw "15 man sitting in aggro radius" we knew right away it wasn't fte but modified poopsock that will eventually lead to problems. the main problem is that shitty attitude you guys have that just won't go away because the rules may change but your approach to p99 simply won't.

Delete it all until they can prove they can get along with each other, then you can worry about changing the raid rules.

JenJen

08-04-2011, 09:25 AM

I fail to understand why rotation isnt considered appealing? or is VP not rotationable?

tekniq

08-04-2011, 09:25 AM

oh, please. You could hit up EC, assemble 30+ randoms and go kill Trak. Whatever the tag, as long as they had levels and some resist gear.

If you're saying no one else is even remotely willing to go through the poopsocking tedium, then yeah, in that sense : no one else is 'taking on' Trak.

precisely...

Skope

08-04-2011, 09:29 AM

btw, i like how you still ignore the rest of my posts that have validity in order to drive home a single point you disagree with. You're probably the best on the entire server in this respect. You have an incredible talent in keeping quiet about things you hate within your own guild by not saying a word even if you agree with some of my points. I'm not being snotty when i say this, i mean it quite genuinely

I still <3 you, btw, but I meant what i said. I've dealt with almost all of your officers and lots of your members in the time i've been here and have only come across a couple i can actually have a casual conversation with in tells, and oddly enough you're probably one of them =P

Loke

08-04-2011, 09:33 AM

Loke, the problem has been around since FTE hit, and both you and i know and SAW THIS COMING. Soon as both you and i saw "15 man sitting in aggro radius" we knew right away it wasn't fte but modified poopsock that will eventually lead to problems. the main problem is that shitty attitude you guys have that just won't go away because the rules may change but your approach to p99 simply won't.

I dont understand why a full variance isn't a solution. If no one knows when any of the mobs are going to spawn, there cannot be any poopsocking. 7 day spawns are put on a full 14 day variance so as to even out to an average of 1 per week. After a mob is killed it can spawn anywhere from instantly, to 14 days later (similar, but different time frame for 3 day mobs obviously). How would that not be a solution to the problem?

I understand there is a problem with the raid system, I just get frustrated when someone is trying to provide a solution and all we get is:"there isn't a problem!" or "why are you just bringing this up now?" or shit like that. a) there is a problem and b) we're bringing it up now because before now there wasn't a problem (i.e. the server staff didn't come to us asking us to find a solution to all the drama)

If you're not contributing to the solution, you're part of the problem, and need to gtfo. We need to stop bickering about who wants what and for what reasons - the simple fact is that there is a problem with the current raid system as deemed by Uthgaard, and any accusations as to certain guild's motivations right now are just a moot point that is completely counter-productive.

So yea...

tekniq

08-04-2011, 09:34 AM

i'm tellin you guys. GMs should spawn ALL mobs at once so everyone will have a chance to get their players, strategize on importance and mobilize to get the most targets for theday.

Skope

08-04-2011, 09:40 AM

Loke, you understand that whatever the rules are (and there have been many) the two guilds (and in my eyes you'll always be just 2 guilds) have always had that shitty approach that has only festered and created more problems, regardless of what the raid rules are, right? That's why I'm saying it's dickheads leading the charge, and a quick glance at the names for anyone who's been here long enough only goes to show that. you're not one of them, so quit acting like one. instead, try to explain to both sides that they need to take a softer approach, otherwise things won't change.

You MUST understand that from the GMs perspective they want to see your can handle the shit on your own before they start changing the rules for the better. The way the server's history is, though, it isn't until shit really hits the fan that the GMs even notice and that the community as a whole complains to a point that there must be change. The first thing to consider for them is "will it require more or less work?" and a 7-day variance still doesn't fix the play nice issue, but it will partially cure poopsock (depending on what spawns and when), but it'll also introduce quite a nice reason to SEQ on those guild trackers. In b4 new IP exemptions. in my opinion, a massive variance does nothing to fix the real problem.

Btw, you talking to me about changing the raid rules is the epitome of preaching to the choir. I'm not the one you need to convince here, I've been convinced since last year. where the hell were you?

Loke

08-04-2011, 09:47 AM

Loke, you understand that whatever the rules are (and there have been many) the two guilds (and in my eyes you'll always be just 2 guilds) have always had that shitty approach that has only festered and created more problems, regardless of what the raid rules are, right?

History would indicate that you're right in this statement, however, I feel that isn't a justification to not try something new. If something isn't working, why keep doing it? I'm not saying a 100% variance would fix every problem on the server, but does anyone honestly think it could make it any worse?

As far as where I've been - I've been pushing a 100% variance since like spring of 2010 when I was with DA and myself, Tullian (who was with WI at the time) and someone from IB (can't remember who, Ektar maybe?) were all discussing it. I know that you've been trying to push to have the variance removed completely, and while I don't think that will solve any problems (I actually think it would cause more since it would just include more guilds in on the drama) - I'd fully support trying it out for a few weeks. All I'm saying is for people to claim there isn't a problem is asinine and counter productive. We need to stop pointing fingers, we need to stop playing this stupid blame game and just come up with a solution.

Skope

08-04-2011, 09:51 AM

yea, and why change or modify any rules at all until you can prove you guys can handle working out problems on your own? changing the rules and keeping that shitty behavior does nothing about the shitty behavior. and it's not the rules that cause the problems, as you just said, but it's that shitty behavior.

Like i said, I've dealt with your assholes. It's hard to negotiate when the other end isn't even responding to tells. ya dig?

you shouldn't be having this conversation with me, but the officers of the 2 guilds everybody's sick of. now ask yourself why the GMs are sick of you two? do you really think changing the rules fixes that?

Like i said, delete it all until they grow up.

Loke

08-04-2011, 10:01 AM

yea, and why change or modify any rules at all until you can prove you guys can handle working out problems on your own?

That is what we're trying to do. By proposing new raid systems (like variance, or Kinsawt's anti-poopsocking, no going past door idea). I'm not saying either of these ideas are the solution, but at least they're ideas that someone is putting out there. People coming in here and being like "TR is crying" contributes nothing. I have yet to see TMO provide an idea that isn't "Lets poopsock on the ledge as opposed to on the spawn point" - which is basically the same thing.

All I'm saying is that no one should be jumping down anyone's throat for providing a new idea - especially when that is exactly what the server staff and even you yourself skope, is asking for. I called you dumb because you were essentially saying that "the top guilds are greedy and that is the only reason they're bringing it up now".. firstly that isn't true (see: GMs requesting a solution, hence us bringing it up now) and secondly, even it if were true, how does saying it in this thread help anything?

I don't have any authorization from anyone in my guild to be a spokesperson or anything, but just on a person to person level - if anyone in TMO seriously has an idea they'd like to present on how to end poopsocking (not just move it to a different location) I'd be THRILLED to hear it and assuming it actually was a viable solution, I'd have no problem using what extremely limited influence I have in TR to endorse it.

I don't care where the solution comes from or even what it really is - I just get frustrated when 95% of the posts are just hating on an idea but providing none of their own.

Skope

08-04-2011, 10:07 AM

the ideas about the rules mean nothing. I'm right when i say that your guilds, the both of them, are being run by assholes with too much pride to concede a little in order to relieve stress on the entire server. How do i know i'm right? because it's come to a point where it's clearly become a huge issue that even the GMs are fucking tired of. There's your proof.

The solution has nothing to do with the rules. The shitty rules only highlight the real issue, and that's your dick-ish, GIMMEGIMMEGIMME MINEMINEMINE, behavior. you can respectfully disagree with me all you want, but that's been the problem since the fishbait/IB/trans/div days. the rules were different, the approach was the same. now the rules are different and the problem is the same.

tell me, what's the common factor here? you shouldn't be having this conversation with me. chances are xzerion is already pissy because you guys are posting on the forums and can't muzzle you all. and why? because you can't solve the issue on your own and you have too much pride/too much invested to look at it from a different perspective. It's happened before: two guilds get to a point where they consider each other a threat and hate each other so much they won't even negotiate. The shit spills over to the forums, the entire server gets pissy at the both of you and the GMs have had enough. Proposal? change the rules. couple months passes and the problem rears it's ugly little head again, this time with a new reason as to why the rules are flawed. Proposal? change the rules.

Now tell me with a straight face that I'm wrong. Lie to me, Pinocchio.

Delete it all. Wait till they learn to play nice and only then can you honestly try to see the flaws in the rules. I'm going to work and I expect this to be resolved by the time i get back. otherwise I'll be having more fun at your expense.

Bruman

08-04-2011, 10:21 AM

Make trak drop 50 teeth.

Loke

08-04-2011, 10:25 AM

Yes, I'm a proud person. I take pride in the things I do. If I want something, I'm willing to go after it and get it. I personally find that to be an admirable trait. I am not willing to compromise when I feel that it negatively affects me, you're correct. I know it is kind of a silly comparison, but giving up mobs to people who aren't willing to put in the effort to get them is like me accepting a 1.9 GPA because someone else didn't want to do the work and because of that I'm going to give them 1/2 of my 3.8 GPA. Obviously not a perfect analogy, but yes, even in something as trivial as a 12 year old video game, I take pride in what I do and strive to be the best. Do I think I'm better than you because of this? Gear wise, probably. Skill wise, I think I'm a pretty good player, so probably. However, we both play this game because we enjoy it, and as far as that is concerned I cannot honestly say whether you or I has the upper hand. For all I know, you could enjoy the game 10x more than I do, and if that is the case, then in that regard I would say you've got the upper hand.

As far as Xz is concerned, he is about the most sincere, down to earth, and selfless guy I've ever met in a raiding guild. In fact, his personality is so different than any guild leader I've ever had before that it is kind of amazing to me that he is so effective. Hate on me, Kins, Karsten or whatever TR figure you want, because I'm sure there are a ton of things you can attack us for, but honestly, Xz doesn't do anything without first thinking of what is best for the server - the guy is super genuine, almost to a fault.

Tewaz

08-04-2011, 11:32 AM

I think they do need to address this because having 500+ people looking to raid by the time Velious rolls out is NOT Classic and so this needs to be addressed. I think the spawn timers should be increased just so some guilds will get tired of raiding.

I played on Drinal and we did pick ups on all raids in classic and Kunark during the Velious era because Cats in Hats seemed to only hang out in NToV. Naggy and Vox were usually up and Gorenaire chased me around constantly in DL. I don't feel like that will happen on this server though, I think we will still deal with poop sockers going after everything instead of just the SoL raid mobs.

My 2 cents.

Aadill

08-04-2011, 12:27 PM

I played on Drinal and we did pick ups on all raids in classic and Kunark during the Velious era because Cats in Hats seemed to only hang out in NToV.

Who were you and did you ever raid Hate or Kael with Aadill and Ploxious?~

Alarti0001

08-04-2011, 12:31 PM

because there's competition now so they're "forced" to poopsock (both TMO/TR). if you miss out on a few dragons and don't see the same amount of loot you used to you quickly start to notice the flaws in the system. guilds tend to turn to dick-ish behavior where they can capitalize on any single advantage they can get; example: leaving your PC on and your character logged in in a particular zone so you can respond to the batphone faster.

basically boils down to "if they do it then we have to do it too in order to stay competitive because they have X advantage" but in reality they both hate the fact that they're "forced" to do it so they bitch and moan on the forums.

Loke, you're being a dick. He has an extremely fucking valid point and so does Uthgaard. They're tired of fucking babysitting you douchemonkeys every time a raid mob spawns because you're so greedy and competitive and have created a top-end raid scene that even you have a hard time enjoying. If i were uthgaard I'd despawn and delete any loot that drops every time there is a petition that could have been resolved before the thing spawned. You have no idea how many times I've sent tells to you fuckholes before a potential problem only to be completely fucking ignored or even get back a asshole response. Considering who the officers are in the two respective guilds I'm going to assume that shit still happens quite frequently. Somehow you sound pissy that uthgaard has a problem? or that chica doesn't know why the problem wasn't seen/solved before? are you fucking serious? it's the same issue that you've dealt with on both sides of the battlefield and I'm getting the vibe that you're upset that uthgaard has to delete loot after you've wasted days of your time... well, that's not his problem but yours. and it's been your problem for years now

This is server chat ban this tool

Alarti0001

08-04-2011, 12:34 PM

That is what we're trying to do. By proposing new raid systems (like variance, or Kinsawt's anti-poopsocking, no going past door idea). TMO provide an idea that isn't "Lets poopsock on the ledge as opposed to on the spawn point" - which is basically the same thing.

How is camping behind the door different than the ledge... another 50 feet? Be real.

Alarti0001

08-04-2011, 12:35 PM

I fail to understand why rotation isnt considered appealing? or is VP not rotationable?

Competition.... people didn't form these large kill squads to share.

Maze513

08-04-2011, 12:55 PM

Make trak drop 50 teeth.

Now he might be on to something here.... if every asshat ans hasbin has a tooth and there for access to VP.. This would change alot of peoples tunes about "How bad they want it" when damn near anyone can get it =p

just an idea but: FREE Veeshans Peak!

Loke

08-04-2011, 12:56 PM

How is camping behind the door different than the ledge... another 50 feet? Be real.

I don't have any authorization from anyone in my guild to be a spokesperson or anything, but just on a person to person level - if anyone in TMO seriously has an idea they'd like to present on how to end poopsocking (not just move it to a different location) I'd be THRILLED to hear it and assuming it actually was a viable solution, I'd have no problem using what extremely limited influence I have in TR to endorse it.

Alarti, let's stop pointing fingers and work together to find a solution. I don't care whose fault it is that we're currently poopsocking, all i care about is finding a resolution. You can keep taking digs like this at every post I make if you want, but I'm only really interested in talking about what we can do to remedy this situation. If you're interested, feel free to PM me here, hit me up on AIM, or in game. Like I said, I have absolutely no authority to speak on behalf of TR, but I'm more than willing to throw some ideas around and see if we can't find something that sticks.

Loke

08-04-2011, 12:59 PM

Now he might be on to something here.... if every asshat ans hasbin has a tooth and there for access to VP.. This would change alot of peoples tunes about "How bad they want it" when damn near anyone can get it =p

O_o even if he drops 50 teeth, you realize you still need to kill him to get those teeth, right?

YendorLootmonkey

08-04-2011, 01:00 PM

Mezzmur

08-04-2011, 01:05 PM

...
I have yet to see TMO provide an idea that isn't "Lets poopsock on the ledge as opposed to on the spawn point" - which is basically the same thing.
...

I'm TMO and I posted a suggestion in several threads and have not had a single reply.

I posted this on the RNF thread initially, but there were no replies/responses to it. I think poopsocking is inevitable in some form or another. If someone wants a mob (which trak seems to be the soup de jour) they're going to do whatever it takes to get it. If 2 mobs are in window, it's whatever mob is the #1 choice.

An example is VS vs Trak last week. We opted to roll the dice and wait at VS and then move to Trak. It's possible that Trak pops before VS and we miss it. Such is the game you play.

As Karst suggested in the conversation to move to jugg door, you'll just have people pooping at the door. Then you'll have trains, flames, and leapfrogging as everyone scrambles to get back to ledge as it is everywhere else. My vote is just to prevent spawn-socking and leave the rest as is with FTE. It's been like that for a long time now, but became more of an issue when the highest-end targets became hotly contested as opposed to being nearly solo targets. We spent a lot of times cothing down(and watching TR kill or wipe) and trying to race while TR was already camped there and logged in faster. I clearly remember that being the point at which I was told we were going to log at the ledge too, because a coth race can't beat a login race.

Here's what I said elsewhere:
GMs should make Trak AE Banish to bubble for the first 15 seconds if you aggro. Prevent spawn-socking and promote ledge camping. All I've heard is camping @ a mob buffed when in window since I've been leveled enough to raid. Not just Trak, hear about TR & others at VS, etc. As someone said previously, I thought people buffed/camped @ other targets pre-kunark when a target was very important to them.

If a target becomes less important, the camping will slow or stop. Right now, Trak is #1 for almost everyone because of VP keys, so it's going to remain highly contested for a while.

If you have 1-2-3-4+ guilds, it won't matter. First one to get in and engage with the right numbers wins. We've spent plenty of times having 40+ people at ledge and not prepared to engage and TR starts to engage. Or we've jumped the gun and wiped. The drama really started when socking spawn and claiming the mob with 15 people. FTE will bite people in the ass and you'll win some or lose some. It's an easy way for a GM to come in and say "yes, you won agro" or not.

This gets more difficult because rules on other mobs(like sev) are no kiting til engaging. You'll still get petitions and require GM interactions unless you had a spawn-location-leash where the dragon was auto-reset if kited or pulled for too long. I'm pretty sure NToV dragons had something of this nature.

Again -- this is all non-classic -- but it could help with some of the server issues to allow for competition. Otherwise just leave it all as it was and deal with socking for a few months. My vote is on FTE and if I want to stay logged in I can, if I don't like the idea of being a raider, can join another guild and be a casual player. People have those options.

Moving outside the door is going to create leapfrogging and training and is nearly impossible for anyone to enforce. And lead to more GM petitions. Even if trains are accidental -- they happen and in raid situations people escalate instantly. I was in a King group and Taken was heading to juggs and got a lot of adds while our puller was splitting. The initial reaction is "you trained us" even when it's an accident. *shrug* A code side change is consistent and we already have non-classic encounters.

If people want to camp on the ledge and play alts then mobilize as fast as they can, I think it's their prerogative. It's the spawn-socking that's what sucks, never being afk, imho. But - I think most people are willing to do what they need to do to get through the VP-Key-Bottleneck right now.

2c

Loke

08-04-2011, 01:06 PM

I don't see how 100% variance will eliminate poopsocking between two guilds who have already demonstrated they will do whatever it takes to kill the target first. And if that means poopsocking longer because the spawn window is greater, then that's what it will boil down to until you burn everyone in your guilds out until you can no longer muster a raid force, and then you'll have to merge/mass-recruit again.

As was said above, the only way to fix this is to change the attitudes. VP is not important. The world will not end if someone else gets a raid target. People won't remember what pixels you had.

I disagree, you realize that they'd have to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week on every spawn they wanted to poopsock? I'm as hard core as the next power gamer, but that simply isn't possible. Even with the 15 man rule that would mean 15 people actively online in one spot for.. well, ever. I'm willing to bet 100k that no guild would do that. What would happen is guilds would find a location that they feel allowed them the quickest access to the mobs they want. Maybe people would camp down in trak's lair, but unless they plan on spending every waking second down there for the rest of the time they play here, they're going to leave eventually. I honestly think it would force guilds into mobilization more - while Trak's lair might be the home base for guilds to mobilize from, the poopsocking would have to essentially end.

Mezzmur

08-04-2011, 01:09 PM

Bubbles

08-04-2011, 01:15 PM

Now he might be on to something here.... if every asshat ans hasbin has a tooth and there for access to VP.. This would change alot of peoples tunes about "How bad they want it" when damn near anyone can get it =p

just an idea but: FREE Veeshans Peak!

LOOT MEANS NOTHING IF THOSE OTHER NORMAL PEOPLE HAVE IT.

Aadill

08-04-2011, 01:15 PM

Mezzmur's 2 coppers

^ Not only that but a petition was already sent in to remove 15 man on spawn permanently from the rules.

A gentlemen's agreement to camp on ledge should've been made the norm when Kinsawt and Zeelot were talking. That's a reasonable expectation of any guild to at least reaffirm the need to race and not stand around with auto attack on. When it was turned into where rules about where anyone is allowed to camp, how many people can log in, and what mobs they are allowed to kill Zeelot said no. I don't blame him one bit because that's not a suggestion anyone can enforce.

Camping on spawns is something that we should avoid. Apparently everyone enjoyed the rush for Trak the other morning when everyone was on the ledge, so why not continue to enjoy that? On the patch day last week we all expected Trak to pop and we all ran into Trak's lair. The claim in say was "15 ON SPAWN IT'S OURS GET OUT" was made. TMO didn't move against that claim but herded groups to go kill another raid mob that popped. Our prerogative was to bring loot to the guild and we did. We didn't want the 15 man on spawn rule to be enforced and didn't realize TR was being serious about it because no one had used it in months. When they invoked it days later we took measures to petition to remove it (seeing as TR wants it removed as well I don't see a problem with this).

Those are the first steps, what next?

Happyfeet

08-04-2011, 01:21 PM

i'm tellin you guys. GMs should spawn ALL mobs at once so everyone will have a chance to get their players, strategize on importance and mobilize to get the most targets for theday.

That doesn't solve anything, because Trak is still top priority for TMO/TR. All that would do is give other guilds besides those two a single chance at VS before Trak is dead in 2 minutes and TMO/TR are porting to DL and gating to their binds at KC to then steal VS if not instantly killed.
Doesn't solve Trak, and allows a single chance for other guilds to get VS =/= solution to anything.

Aadill

08-04-2011, 01:23 PM

It's a more viable solution than the others I have read. It's not just about TMO/TR*.

*Granted, the largest set of forum posts seem to come from IB/DA TR/Asc TR/TMO flames.

Bubbles

08-04-2011, 01:23 PM

I generally stay out of these threads because they're stupid, and I like you Bubbles but I don't think you know this encounter very well! You can't dodge the AE by hiding behind a rock or anything, so hiding casters isn't going to work, if you time the ae you're going to lose so much dps that your tanks are just going to die/get shroomed and you will lose (see positioning), and Trak doesn't blind on this server and never has.

Just sayin'! <3

I was always stuck AE healing / Curing 5 wizards, and we'd move as a unit. The bonus, of course, being that i literally only had to keep them alive till they were OOM and then i'd pick and choose who lived (cure) and died post fight like i was, indeed, God.

Obviously i wasn't advocating melee dps doing anything but taking poison like champs for the team. And their clerics are simply going to have to bounce between AE heals and DAs and not eff positioning while staring at the dragon's toes, yeah.

He seriously doesn't blind on here? that was the only amusing part of the encounter. And, of course, his only real defense against a zerg force.

Aadill

08-04-2011, 01:26 PM

He seriously doesn't blind on here? that was the only amusing part of the encounter. And, of course, his only real defense against a zerg force.

According to a TMO member he was single target blinded. Supposedly it's supposed to be a 15' AE targeted cone or something? No one has bug reported it yet. Honestly the spell data describes the spell in a way that seems kinda funky but I don't dive into that all that often.

Loke

08-04-2011, 01:30 PM

If people want to camp on the ledge and play alts then mobilize as fast as they can, I think it's their prerogative. It's the spawn-socking that's what sucks, never being afk, imho.

This is a part that I agree with whole heartedly. I don't define socking as having buffed characters camped out at the ledge. What I consider socking is when players are actively logged in but doing nothing but wait for a mob - which is what I would love to see end.

Originally, camping a character at the ledge was the way it was done - then one side (not even sure I know which, but it doesnt really matter) started keeping their raid force logged in so as to cut that minute or two off that it takes to switch characters - that is when the poopsocking started. It reached full force when both raids up'd the ante by camping on the spawn point instead of the ledge.

As I type this, there are 10 characters from each guild sitting on the ledge doing nothing - myself included. This is a shame and a waste of time (well, I'm watching movies and would be doing that anyway, but still..) What Kins was trying to propose with the tracker/coh bot limit was to force some artificial mobilization. His idea was less about getting people behind a door or making an imaginary line in the sand and more about removing the incentive for guilds to sit in the lair by removing it as an option.

As long as TMO has been a merged guild with DA, I've never seen you guys not camp out at the ledge like us - the CoH option has already been proposed by Kins and denied by Zeelot - and I guess that is fine - it is Zeelot's decision. However, you make it sound like the only reason you camp at the ledge is because we do, when we've made it very clear we'd agree, and actually prefer a system that encourages a race as opposed to ledge camping.

I think your banish idea isn't such a bad one, but the result would still be people sitting on ledge, waiting until his 15 second or whatever banish window is over, and then engaging. While it would be better, it wouldn't solve the issue of poopsocking imo - although like I've said to Skope, I'm willing to put my endorsement behind any idea that I think will make things better, so yea, I'd totally support this idea if another, more effective option isn't brought up (still prefer 100% variance, but anything is better than what we've got).

Loke

08-04-2011, 01:32 PM

No one has bug reported it yet.

I didn't play the first 3 months of kunark or so, but I was told, and assumed it to be true, that a bug report was submitted and no response was ever given by the server staff. Not sure if this is true, but I agree, from what I've read and remember, it seems as though he should AE blind.

Aadill

08-04-2011, 01:35 PM

I didn't play the first 3 months of kunark or so, but I was told, and assumed it to be true, that a bug report was submitted and no response was ever given by the server staff. Not sure if this is true, but I agree, from what I've read and remember, it seems as though he should AE blind.

I peruse the bug forums regularly and never saw anything about it? Shiftin was apparently told to never speak about Trak again. By whom I don't know but he sure did post about Trak being a 3 day spawn for a long time. I suspect the devs got tired of it :)

In any case, http://www.project1999.org/forums/search.php?searchid=849127 brings up nothing. If it was a private tell or a petition it probably should have been a public channel.

If someone can come up with the proper data I don't see why it shouldn't be fixed, but it should be fixed correctly. I don't know what it is because I never owned a mana robe or any sort of melee BP, let alone went to VP when I played on live. I think I was level 30 something when Velious came out.

Arillious

08-04-2011, 02:11 PM

PVP is the solution to all of your problems.

Kope

08-04-2011, 02:16 PM

PVP is the solution to all of your problems.

Actaully, even though I don't think it's right that red vs. blue always comes into play (both have merits) this actually would solve your problems.

No more poopsocking, it would be a massive war.

I know you guys don't like the idea of pvp in this game but just imagine trying it out for a bit. If Rog can turn pvp on in a single zone when a mob is in dispute.

Fourthmeal

08-04-2011, 03:25 PM

PVP is the solution to all of your problems.

Fighting over raid mobs is how its supposed to work in this game guys

druziil

08-04-2011, 04:01 PM

I agree with Bruman's idea but not the nuber. Have Trak drop 12 to 15 teeth. Work on a rotation that any guild can sign up for. Whoever has next kill has a specific time to engage when he spawns before loosing their turn(30 mins sound reasonable?) to the next guild in rotation that forms there. If you wipe you lose your turn.

This keeps the variance and still rewards the actively tracking guilds as well as gives more people a chance to get kills/keys, while still rewarding the active fast moving capable guilds with better success rates.

The reason you might disagree to this is if you genuinely want to deny as many people VP access as posible. If that really is the case then there is no hope of ever reaching an agreement between players and will result in some stupid rule like what happened with the prod camp. The only camping in this case would be 30 mins for every guild in the rotation in front of yours and lets all be honest there will only ever be a handfull of guilds with the raid potential to be viable for this kind of encounter. So maybe 2 or 3 hours for any socking.

Edit: By any guild I do mean any guild that meets a certain standard. Obviously you have to be able to field a raid force and one capable of getting to the spawn area. Kimmie and Nalken need not apply.

Seaweedpimp

08-04-2011, 04:46 PM

Skope

08-04-2011, 04:50 PM

Loke, xzerion isn't the problem. If he actually ran your guild instead of the other fuckheads you've been calling officers (minus 1 or 2. Hi karsten) you wouldn't be in this mess.

Change the rules as many times as you want, if you guys are still being cockmonkeys then you'll still act like cockmonkeys. Honestly, have you ever wondered that maybe if you two guilds were banned from raiding for a month or two just how much healthier the server would be? if you weren't so involved in this nonsense and would let some shit slide then we'd all be better off. but no, instead we have 2 guilds bickering back n' forth relentlessly pointing fingers at each other for months/years accusing each other of the same shit that they're own guild is pulling, be it cheats/favoritism/camping, whatever; hogging every fucking thing they can get their sneaky little hands on just to spite the other. it's annoying. grow the fuck up. you've been playing this same game for years and are now trying to convince me that your shit doesn't stink. paint it whatever color you want, it smells like shit.

YendorLootmonkey

08-04-2011, 06:30 PM

I disagree, you realize that they'd have to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week on every spawn they wanted to poopsock? I'm as hard core as the next power gamer, but that simply isn't possible. Even with the 15 man rule that would mean 15 people actively online in one spot for.. well, ever. I'm willing to bet 100k that no guild would do that. What would happen is guilds would find a location that they feel allowed them the quickest access to the mobs they want. Maybe people would camp down in trak's lair, but unless they plan on spending every waking second down there for the rest of the time they play here, they're going to leave eventually. I honestly think it would force guilds into mobilization more - while Trak's lair might be the home base for guilds to mobilize from, the poopsocking would have to essentially end.

No, because you will get the same escalation from the "Must deny other guild, must get target ourselves at all costs" mentality that currently exists.

You start with mobilization. One guild is better at it than others, so the other guild says "Welp, we want to beat them to the raid targets, and we know they're all camped at the ledge, so we will poopsock in-game to beat them."

So then the "competition" changes from "who can mobilize faster", which TR wants to compete on (obviously because they have the advantage there), to "who can kill the raid target". Then, TR's advantage is removed and they invariably troll the other guild for not being able to out-mobilize them. But the game is about who kills the target and gets the loot, not a game of "who can race to their computers and log in their fully buffed raid force first upon batphone signal". TR tried to make the competition about that because that is their forte. In reality, it all comes down to who gets the kill.

So the poopsocking starts, and then TR realizes they're at a disadvantage unless they do the same thing. So they start poopsocking, too. But because the prevalent attitude is "VP is the end goal, loot > all, deny the other guild at all costs", then you can't afford to not be there poopsocking along with the other guild. Regardless of the variance.

Because you're not going to sit there and tell me there's some magical % variance that guilds will automatically stop poopsocking the primary target that they want to kill before the other guild at all costs. Because "more time invested yields greater rewards" is still hard-wired into your brains.

So then both guilds are back at poopsocking, trying to get the mob engaged before the other guild as soon as it spawns. You can't afford not to be there if another guild is willing to poopsock at 50%, 75%, or even 100% variance. One accuses the other of creating the poopsocking situation, when in reality it was just a normal response to "do what it takes to get the mob before the other guys do". They aren't going to compete against TR at mobilization. Why should they? They'd rather force TR into a Mexican poopsock standoff and try to burn TR out before they get burnt out.

Then, the first guild that gets burned out has to merge/mass-recruit and the other guild's response is to immediately brand them as zerglings.

Then that other guild realizes they are no longer competitive because they just burnt a subset of their guild out during Poopsock Wars II: The Feces Strikes Back. Then THEY have to merge/mass-recruit.

And then the cycle begins again, burning people out faster than should be normal because the mentalities of both guilds require them both to not stand down and yield raid targets to the other guild. Ever wonder why we're still around 750 players online prime time? Probably because this server can never grow past that critical mass due to the tier 1 guilds creating situations against each other that burn players out. How awesome is that for the health of the server? Great job, munchkins.

Alarti0001

08-04-2011, 08:55 PM

This is EQ not WOW why are we talking about trak dropping 15-50 keys. On live there were many guilds who never saw VP until luclin or later.

If you want VP keys get your guild, or get in a guild that can take trak.
Everything shouldn't be handed to you.

Trak today TR was killing juggs with about 15 and TMO had maybe 8 on tracking or afk. No one was on spawn... problem solved... lets move on.

Loke

08-05-2011, 05:58 AM

Lots

If you seriously think there is anyone who is willing to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week sitting on a spawn, you're delusional. You realize that is what someone would have to do to poopsock with a 100% variance right? I feel this is a pretty simple concept.

Just yes or no, do you sincerely believe either guild is willing to spend the rest of their natural lives logged in sitting at trak's spawn point? If so, maybe us power gamers aren't the ones with the fucked up perspective here lol.

YendorLootmonkey

08-05-2011, 06:32 AM

If you seriously think there is anyone who is willing to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week sitting on a spawn, you're delusional. You realize that is what someone would have to do to poopsock with a 100% variance right? I feel this is a pretty simple concept.

Just yes or no, do you sincerely believe either guild is willing to spend the rest of their natural lives logged in sitting at trak's spawn point? If so, maybe us power gamers aren't the ones with the fucked up perspective here lol.

Yes. Based on what the "whatever it takes to get the trak teeth" attitude we've seen so far here, I absolutely believe it will escalate to one guild starting to poopsock the mob after it dies in case it spawns back to back, and causing the other guild to respond by poopsocking because in their minds they can't afford to let the other guild have Trakanon.

YOU personally might not do it, but has either guild given any of us a reason to believe that this would not happen? Has either guild backed down? Has either guild said anything but "Yeah, poopsocking sucks, but we need to engage before the other guild, so sit your asses right on that spawn point and hit TAB and auto-attack for hours on end!"?

It has escalated to this now, both guilds say they hate doing it, but both guilds hate the thought of the other guild getting the trak teeth EVEN MORE.

Someone from a guild who answers the 3am batphone and just spend how many days/nights of the last few weeks trying to out-poopsock another guild in a emulated version of a 11-year old game calling ME delusional? C'mon now, Loke. I'M the one laughing at your poop-filled socks. To each their own, I guess. /sigh

Autotune

08-05-2011, 06:34 AM

Based on what the "whatever it takes to get the trak teeth" attitude we've seen so far here, I absolutely believe it will escalate to one guild starting to poopsock the mob after it dies in case it spawns back to back, and causing the other guild to respond by poopsocking because in their minds they can't afford to let the other guild have Trakanon.

YOU personally might not do it, but has either guild given any of us a reason to believe that this would not happen? Has either guild backed down? Has either guild said anything but "Yeah, poopsocking sucks, but we need to engage before the other guild, so sit your asses right on that spawn point and hit TAB and auto-attack for hours on end!"?

It has escalated to this now, both guilds say they hate doing it, but both guilds hate the thought of the other guild getting the trak teeth EVEN MORE.

huh?

Skope

08-05-2011, 07:13 AM

Loke, how many times has this shit happened and now you think the outcome will be different? fucking get over it.

Here's some things you may already know but won't admit to yourself or your guildies

- Nobody is impressed with your dragon loot.
- Everyone thinks you're losers for losing sleep over mobs you've killed a million times and loot you'll give to your alts or sell in EC.
- you can have all the try-hards. in fact, please point them out to me before they apply to divinity and let other guilds know as well. i'll be sure to send them your way
- you've done this shit for more than a year and still haven't had your fill
- you two guilds will bump heads, spill it over on the forums and think that the rest of us give 2 shits. we don't. sometimes it's entertaining, most of the time it's annoying.
- the server would probably be better off without every single TMO/TR member, except xzerion, karsten, tiggles and knuckle. why? because xzerion actually does good and the rest are pretty cool guys who doesn't afraid of anything.
- you've been the laughing stock of the server for how long now?
- it's EQ. it's not hard. you get 8 spells/abilities and you use 5 of them at most. congratulations.

you will eventually poopsock trak just to cockblock. you already have your keys and you're doing it now. changing the variance doesn't change the fact that you're assholes to each other and in turn the rest of the server. we'd all be better off without either of you. please go away

Anger

08-05-2011, 07:27 AM

This thread seems serious enough.

Tags reserved.

Ektar

08-05-2011, 07:49 AM

The many misconceptions of the nonhardcore raider!

Or what I label it from my own experiences and assign it arbitrarily to the general case.

- Nobody is impressed with your dragon loot.

First, that's simply not true. I've had people marvel at my FA/LR/DE mask.
Second, I don't give a shit. Do you think I wasted so much of my life ensuring server first FA so I could go around telling people it's the first one? (not that I haven't done that..) I did it because it was a childhood fantasy. I did it for myself.

So not saying it was a childhood fantasy of mine to poopsock classic eq raid mobs, but ya know.

- Everyone thinks you're losers for losing sleep over mobs you've killed a million times and loot you'll give to your alts or sell in EC.

An example being the VP picture on the TR website - they don't give a fuck.

- you can have all the try-hards. in fact, please point them out to me before they apply to divinity and let other guilds know as well. i'll be sure to send them your way

Do it, brew. No paladins.

- you've done this shit for more than a year and still haven't had your fill

See 1

- you two guilds will bump heads, spill it over on the forums and think that the rest of us give 2 shits. we don't. sometimes it's entertaining, most of the time it's annoying.

Well this one is probably right :p
edit: At first I figured this was right. But honestly? So many non tmo/tr chime into these threads that you'd think... man, maybe they don't not care? Be honest with yourself, if you didn't care you wouldn't throw your thoughts into the ring. I don't care in what way you care - you don't have to be like "oh em gee I want trak too," but you obviously care in some way.

- you've been the laughing stock of the server for how long now?

See 2

- it's EQ. it's not hard. you get 8 spells/abilities and you use 5 of them at most. congratulations.

Oversimplification is implicit in this condescending verbiage.

How could I be so amazing and others suck so hard at this game if it were that simple?

Skope

08-05-2011, 08:09 AM

How could I be so amazing and others suck so hard at this game if it were that simple?

time invested. and ektar, don't tell me for a second they don't wank themselves off at the pixels they get. it's been a shitfest for raiding since poopsock last summer with momentary lapses of normality, quickly fucked by "must do anything to make sure we're #1 and they aren't." nobody cares but these 2 groups of people and they feed off each other.

The fact that a select few assholes want to consider this their job doesn't mean the entire server has to bow down and listen to their shit. I don't give 2 shits about TR or TMO, IB/DA, the pricks that run these guilds or their dragon/god loot, but i feel as if it's the same old shit over again and the server is worse off for it. The pop is down, people quit and you're not seeing as many new faces as you once did. Is this all attributed to this crap? no, certainly not, but some of it is. i don't have much time anymore, but even when i do i find it hard to muster up the will to log in anymore. it's their shit that can make this a sad and depressing place to be. the others are a string of those broken patches we had that made some classes completely unplayable for weeks, the time it takes to invest into raiding because you two won't go outside and want to ruin it for everyone else, and the fact that the GMs/guides have let it get this far. it's all disappoint. sometimes i wish uthgaard would approach the bickering between you two the way he approaches single-player disputes: ban you both for not shutting the fuck up. btw, uth, i think you're a pussy for not doing it. if that shit could have been handled before a petition was sent in, it should have been handled before a petition was sent in. the mere fact that it wasn't means they're not willing to talk, and yet they want to discuss rules. are you serious?

i say their shit, because you're not one of them anymore, ektar. you were once and maybe you can see if only for a second just how silly this shit really is

azeth

08-05-2011, 08:10 AM

I fail to understand why rotation isnt considered appealing? or is VP not rotationable?

There are 2 main reasons why rotations do not work, or aren't seriously considered:

1. At no point will the 2-3 guilds in question share an equal amount of kills ( 2 guilds 50/50, 3 guilds 33/34/33 etc). So, whichever guild is getting the lion's share has far less reason to consider rotating with the lesser competitors. It doesn't matter whether the power balance shifts every now and then, 1 guild will always be the 60+/40-.

2. On P99, right now, the second reason is less meaningful because there truely are only 2 guilds capable of fielding #s to kill Trakanon/eventually VP. However, often rotations fail due to the rotation having not accounted for other guilds who may start taking their shots are "your" or "their" targets.

Loke

08-05-2011, 08:15 AM

Ok, I'm done trying - both to turn this thread in a productive direction and with attempting to keep it out of RnF.

Skope, your forum join date is 2 months after mine, yet you have over 30% more posts than I do, what does that tell you? Unlike you, I am actually playing the game. I have experienced every encounter in the game to date, completed numerous quests that I never got to on live, and met a bunch of nice people while doing it. You on the other hand haven't had a serious kill in weeks, if not months... and you come here and insinuate I'm wasting my time and that I'm obsessed with this game? I'm not going to break out the "I'm a young doctor" thing, but let me assure you, this game has never hindered my personal life - in fact, I probably do 10x more reading because I play p99 than I did when I didn't play.

I like a lot of people in divinity and cannot think of a time I have lashed out at you guys for anything, but this whole mentality that you are better than everyone on the server because you're so above getting raid mobs is just silly. [edit: deleted a pretty weak analogy]. At least we're in the game playing it - you just sit on the forums and comment on what we do. Get the fuck over yourself and stop pretending that you don't care about what TMO and TR do, because your 550+ posts and presence in this thread clearly show that you do.

Ektar

08-05-2011, 08:21 AM

time invested

well, as we've argued in the past, it's more than just time invested. I mean, I don't want to get too invested in this argument again because you'll just disagree :p. But, more than just raiding, anyone who has been in an exp group with me knows I'm good. And it's not because I have lustrous russet (which can be argued as coming from "time invested") - and LR is just indicolite anyway. It's because of how I'm able to play the game and my class, doing far more than anyone else could possibly do.

BUT EITHER WAY no I, unfortunately, can't see how silly it is because I still see it from TR's point of view. It's just relief to not be stuck in it anymore (and willpower to keep myself out :p)

Skope

08-05-2011, 08:23 AM

quit bunching me up with the rest of divinity. i disagree with them more than i disagree with you, the difference is i'm allowed to voice my opinion and people know that i'm not a dickhead. even though i tend to be belligerent i'm always truthful and would give the last 2 coins in my pocket to help someone else. <~~ that's why im in divinity. the elitist attitude that came out of DA/IB and you want to pin it on divinity now because you're grasping for straws? you won't win this argument, bud, and conjuring up some "leet divinity" bullshit won't help you. anyone who's been here longer than a month or come across a single member in div, or even myself, knows the shit coming out of your mouth is utter crap. and grats on the encounters btw, i did them 10+ years ago. you've still got catching up to do

i've been here months before my forum join date and avoided them completely.

do you really think i'm pissy because i haven't gotten any kills recently? i haven't even logged in recently, you twat. i was on yesterday for 2 hours helping norbs and porting guildies. and i don't give 2 fucks about you two guilds. unfortunately, i think it's gotten to a point where you two are making the server a poor place to play and that's what i care about.

you're in the minority here, loke. look back at how many new faces DA/IB and now TMO/TR are churning out just to stay "competitive." a small group of people are literally playing the game against yourselves and want to make up the rules even though they can't put their shitty pride aside to send a single tell before a mob spawns because they're too awesome. if rules were really discussed in an open and fair manner it wouldn't involve a single one of you.

Loke

08-05-2011, 08:33 AM

Firstly, I'm very clearly allowed to voice my opinion given the fact I'm currently posting in this thread, so I'm not sure where that comes from. I'm grouping you with divinity just like you group every TR and TMO member in with their respective guilds.

At least we admit that we give a fuck. We are competitive and want mobs - so yea, we care. You still didn't address the fact that you pretend not to care about this game yet have over 30% more post than I, a very active and fairly old member of the community. Please, tell us more about how you're above all this server drama - maybe you can make another 561 posts about how you don't care.

Skope

08-05-2011, 08:36 AM

^^ refer to my post to see why i care, or care less and less.

hell, how many times has this shit happened? you want the rules changed and think it'll be different this time? do you pwomise? the shitty thing here isn't the 15 on the spawn, it's your shitty attitudes and it's been this way for a while. keep grasping at straws (post count, join date, elitist attitude) to lessen my credibility instead of answering my arguments. you were far better at this before, right now you look rather pathetic

when i group TR i do it by names (namely officers, cept xzerion), so you want me to go through a list of your members (and former members) who have dicked me over and have pulled some shady shit/exploited in their time? banned? or should i just not bother because you know who they are? <~~~ this argument you sure as shit will never win.